This will be SO helpful for starting out learning thus stuff! Glad I could contribute my track to this tutorial, and I'm grateful you engineered this track!
8 років тому+2
you're welcome! I hope this tutorial can help many people.
Thanks!! I was starting to think nobody in the world (but me) was interested in mixing something that is NOT dance music. The hours I wasted watching videos that all told me the same: beat, more beat and then some more beat! GREAT JOB, man!!
Hey bro, I just wanted to let you know I mixed and mastered my very first orchestral piece today and used all of your advice. Thanks for posting. This was incredibly helpful!
7 років тому
GotSoul Music yay I'm so glad it helped! I'll hear it! tell me when you upload it!
Amazing video…no words how much you gave away in 20mins. I wish i found this video when i was starting :) i learned all these things hard way so it took some time.
@ There is still a lot of valuable advice in these old videos. It's still helpful even though it may feel outdated to you. Can't wait to see the stream archives! :D
Excellent tutoriel qui couvre parfaitement les points essentiels du mixage orchestral. Ca fait un moment que je compose pour des courts métrages et tes conseils me permettront d'aller plus loin dans le travail de mes mix et mastering. Merci et bonne continuation à toi !
un énorme merci à toi, je travaille avec les sons kontakts dans logic et ne savais pas comment mixer mes compositions épiques et classiques, alors encore merci pour ce merveilleux partage!
8 років тому+1
De rien! C'est super si ça peut aider plein de monde :)
merci, si jamais ça t'intéresse je suis prof de chant (sur Genève) et suis aussi spécialisée aussi dans la voix off.. ai écouté tes merveilleuses compositions, bravo tu es vraiment doué , continue comme ça c'est magnifique! (-;
8 років тому
ouahhh j'ai des profs de musique qui écoutent mes morceaux?!! C'est super! Content que vous aimiez!
Thank you for this! I'm just starting out doing my own audio engineering projects and you've really given me insight into how to mix a plethora of various instruments.
this is awesome. I'm very glad I found your channel. Don't be afraid to make long videos, as everything you say is very relevant and to the point. thanks a lot for this video! :)
6 років тому+1
Thank you , i'm glad it helped :) If you're interested in having more detailed information, i'll be releasing a course for trailermusicacademy.com in a few months :)
This was godsend! Thank you so much! I used every single tip and advice from this video and now my mix sounds WAY more epic than before! Also, a HUGE THANKS for explaining everything bit of everything from reasons to suggestions. That was a huge help in understanding the "why" behind different use of the different mixing and mastering techniques. I used to worry about loudness and tried to achieve maximum volume in my music before. The result would be fantastic loud music but horrible mixed instruments. I followed your advice throughout this video on a very recent track and compared the end result to an earlier "mixed and mastered" version I did and the difference is staggering. I almost cried, because after your video my mix was absolutely wonderful. Sure, the other track was LOUD but it wasn't good sounding. In fact, the new version is not only mixed well but is still loud enough. No longer will I be fixated on the idea of making my music super loud, but instead focus more on the actual way everything sounds together like I should've been doing a long time ago! From here on out, it's a matter of playing it by ear and using my better judgement on how I should mix everything in my music, now that I have a clearer understanding on how each plugin works in a track.
7 років тому+1
Rasheed Lindsey what a great comment, that's fantastic to hear! I'm so glad I made your mixes better. The thing is, the better the mix,the louder it sounds. If you listen to my latest track, harmonia, it's pretty loud, as loud as many metal records but what makes it sound so loud is because the drums are punchy, especially in the end. it's easy to get really loud masters if the mix is good but too loud is actually gonna end up sounding quieter and lifeless. So yeah, making the mix good first should be the main focus and then, mastering will be super easy.
Definitely notice that as well after my fifth review of the final version. I had an initial trouble with the threshold for my track in which you could "hear it do its job", but solved the problem when I realized that our songs are completely different and needed to use a different threshold than the one you used for this track. I will be taking a listen to your harmonia song very shortly. Your channel and another I found alongside it are now mainstay reference material and inspiration for me from now on. Also, I read your previous comment to someone else who mentioned the lack of woodwind mixing tips in this video and found your response to be exactly what I thought prior to mixing them. For some reason, I never felt (heard) any need to mix them with any eq or even reverb for the longest. However, I did do a bit of volume adjustment and I may also run some volume automaton for certain sections. But, you are right about not always having to eq woodwinds so much. They really do sound damn near perfect out of the box. I use EastWest Libraries and all of their wind instruments sound superb by default!
7 років тому+1
Rasheed Lindsey yup that's the thing! as you get better at mixing you will hear when something needs EQ or compression , when something is muddy it will be obvious. I'm sure there is muddy woodwind libraries out there but the instruments themselves tend to need less EQ. Threshold can be completely different, depends how loud the mix is. Threshold doesn't matter, what matters is the gain reduction. You're right!
7 років тому+1
Rasheed Lindsey but I also can't stress enough that it's impossible to copy EQ tips. depending on how heavy the arrangement is, you're gonna wanna leave more or less mids. making strings sound more silky on their own is a thing but maybe they'll start to sound thin if they're on their own.. for example. there is no magic answer, just practice. Also everything completely depends on the libraries used.
dude your knowledge of mixing is incredible, I've spent a lot with theory but non with mixing. I'm lost with a piece I've just made and could use some guidance. How much would you charge If i sent you the track? would you be able to take a listen and give some pointers?
8 років тому
Allen Pierre hey :) here are my rates for mixing and mastering. If you just want advice about how to mix it, I do give private lessons for 30$ per hour (as you can see on my website) we can definitely talk about track if you want. I wish I could still listen to everyone's tracks and give free feedback but I have lots of work coming from all directions at the moment and I have trouble keeping up. Hope you understand :/ Cheers!
8 років тому
Allen Pierre lionsheartproductions.com/services/mixing%20%26%20mastering.html
tomorrow i listening to the total video, with my wifi, but did you compose the track that you play in this intro? is awesome... you have to compose that music! goodnight sweet dreams! ciaooo 👋😌
8 років тому
no, this is a track by another composer called Epikus, I just mixed it :D But yeah it's a very epic track :)
I like the EQ tips, but I found that for orchestral music, this track is over compressed. I would have liked to hear more dynamic differences between the soft parts and the more epic parts. It sounded almost at the same volume and you can also see that in your master meter. Apart from that, I liked the workflow and how you have this very organized. :)
8 років тому+8
Wipe1254 hey, thanks for the feedback, actually, if you compare this track to commercial releases such as recent two steps from hell tracks, it's not that compressed. The beginning of the track is pretty quiet. and even in the loud parts, there is good amounts of drum impact. I know what you mean though and I guess it's a matter of taste, But I like to compress very big sounding tracks like that quite a bit (not as much as most commercial tracks like that though).
getting into the tutorial game eh! nice video and good information.
8 років тому
Probably the only one i'll ever make, just because was no tutorials about mixing epic music^^ Glad you liked it, nice to hear that from a pro engineer. ^_^
Mate, this is absolutely fantastic! Some brilliant tips in here! I'm a composer who has recently finishes writing an original musical. Producing the cast recording is proving tricky, but I'm sure I can use plenty of tips from here. You've made a lot of sense and I can't wait to apply some of these tricks. I'd love to hear you mix one of my tracks from the musical. Great work!
Honestly, fantastic advice. Question, how would you EQ timpani's? I struggle to find the right frequencies to boost or cut.... The ones you've used are different in tone to mine, so I'm not quite sure what to do...
8 років тому
Joe Purdue hm difficult to say without hearing them. they will generally have some muddiness around 200-300. you can boost 100 for the fundamental and 2000 -3000 for bite too
Great thank you. I will give that a try! So you route all 4 instrument sets to a bus, so all brass to one bus, all strings to one bus ect? I think you've clued it all together really well, and it makes sense to put an overall EQ and compression on strings. Do you use a similar type of compression for brass and woodwinds? I find compressing orchestral instruments very tricky because you don't want to loose naturalism... Any tips there? P.s I will check out your website and see about having a t track mixed at some point!
8 років тому
Joe Purdue hey, I do apply very light compression on some elements if needed (strings, piano, but it depends on the library). when compressing stuff like that I'll usually do very light compression or corrective multiband compression (low string harmonics being a bit jumpy) or stuff like that. For quieter tracks I might not do any compression except multiband on strings and drums compression. If you're not sure of what you're doing, don't mess with compression on stuff like strings or brass. it's easy to make something lifeless. I'd be happy to mix one of your tracks too :) email me anytime!
great job. this is amazing! quick question. how would you go about mixing choirs?
7 років тому+1
if you want the "cut through" TSFH sound that you hear in their last album, boost 4khz as well as 12khz a few db (4 to 7 db maybe). If you want an airy choir just boost 12khz or even higher. if the choir is muddy cut anywhere from 250 to 600hz. reverb 40-50% wet Done PS: you're welcome for the video :D
Sympas comme style de vidéo, j'y comprend rien mais c'est intéressant x) Sa fait aussi bizarre de ré-entendre cette voix :O Continue comme ça lionceau !
Wow so awesome to finally have a video like this. I've been searching for ages. I'm no expert on mixing but personally I would have EQ'ed the composer's voice a bit more. Like made a cut from 30Hz up to 16000 around 12DB...
8 років тому
Glad you like the video. 12DB? it wouldn't sound like a human voice anymore :D
It was a joke....a cut of 12DB from 30Hz to 16000 would remove the sound completely. Basically I thought the composer's voice sounded very out of place in the track and didn't work at all. :P Please make more orchestral mixing and mastering videos. Non epic ones would be great too or otherwise more epic tracks is fine. You didn't cover woodwinds here for example. UA-cam is really lacking in orchestral specific mixing and mastering videos! Trust me I know, I've searched for a while for stuff like this.
8 років тому
Oh got it ^^ well to remove it completely you'd need a high pass filter but yeah xD Well it's common to have opera vocals in these types of tracks and imo it worked :) I don't think i'll make tutorials for other styles of music since there are plenty around already. I didn't cover woodwinds since there were none in this track but i think people can figure it out with the advice i gave in this vid^^
Oh I see, yes it is a good video. Not sure what other mixing videos you're referring to...the only ones I've found are for pop music, no orchestral ones. If you know of any others for orchestral music like this then please let me know. : )
8 років тому
loot6 I meant other tutorials for other genres. Plenty for Pop/Rock
Excellent boulot!Merci beaucoup!C'est exactement ce que je cherchais…Juste une question quelles banks tu utilises?les violons et les choeurs entre autres sonnent du tonnerre!!Bonne continuation a toi et encore merci..Respect!
8 років тому
nicolas thomas je crois que le compositeur utilise EWQL Hollywood strings, brass et requiem pro. Ce n'est pas mon morceau ^^
Hello, I wanted to ask you a question about the monitor, mix movie orchestra music, are Yamaha hs7 or ns10 better for it? And what's better for mixing music? I have seen a lot of different opinions on the internet and that is why I am interested in something else. I have yet to buy monitors but I don't know exactly which one for this genre. Otherwise the studio will be in some mediocre room.
5 років тому
HS7 will be better but if your room is bad I recommend nice headphones instead like the HD600
The explanations are fine, but i'd wished for more (or actually any) audio examples, literally after each step, let it play to hear whats going on. Neverless, thanks for the video !
6 років тому
Chriszz zzh I'm writing a course right now for trailer music academy which will go fully in depth with hours of content and text/pictures/audio examples as well. I'll post about it on my channel when it's done :) this was just meant to be a quick and easy tutorial for basics. Glad it's still helpful!
I always find myself coming back to this video - it's amazing! One question - I noticed you are using more than one compressor when mastering with different settings, but if you were only using one, what would your attack and release times be for this type of piece? It's so easy to ruin a track if you're not mastering correctly, so I need to be careful. Also would it would be the same for Multi-band compression, slow attack, fast release? In a month or so when I get paid I'm going to book a Skype lesson with you. I find your videos & your mixing tips better than anyone else out there. Keep up the great work!
7 років тому
Hey , i'd use attacks not shorter than 10ms. anywhere from 10 to 30ms and release anywhere from 100 to 300 depending on how fast the piece is. Faster piece, shorter release. for multiband compression, it's a bit long to explain but it depends on what frequencies you're compressing and what you want to do. different frequencies need different attack and release speeds for optimal sound. Well i'm looking forward to our lesson then :) I'm glad my video helped!
Oh right fantastic - that's really helpful as I assumed a short release was fast than that at like 35-50ms, but then something didn't sound right! I will try your suggestion! As for the Multi-band compression I thought that maybe the case. I will have a play around with different settings and see what I can find. Brilliant, I look forward to speaking with you. I'll be in touch soon!
Do you have any advice on how to EQ auxiliary instruments such as pianos, celestes, and harps? What about the woodwind section?
7 років тому
Hey, for these instruments, it really depends on the recording. For the harp i'd say watch out for boomy low notes around 200 hz just like for acoustic guitars, for celestes, pianos, and woodwinds, watch out 300-600hz for any unnecessary "boxiness"
salut, est que tu fera d'autre tutos sur l'orchestration? genre le workflow sur fl , le midi ,et sur kontakt car qui dit orchestral dit forcement kontakt :) en attendant je m'abonne ,car c'est rare de voir des tuto d'orchestration sur fl studio.
7 років тому
Hey pour ça je donne des cours :) lionsheartproductions.com/services/lessons.html Merci de t'abo!
Joel, I have a question. Right now, I am relying on an orchestral frequency chart that I downloaded a week ago that shows where each orchestral instrument sit in what ranges. Very straightforward and I mix according to that chart as well as my ears. As a result, I get clean mixes and no instruments are fighting each other. However, when I compared the mix to a reference track, I got non pleasant results even if the mix still sounds good. In other words, I really don't know what to do next to improve my mixing or mastering skills. I feel my mixing skills reached a block end or reached an optimum mixing level and can't go up to the next level. What shall I do?
I wanted to ask what your current thoughts are on mixing orchestral sections. At the moment I group instrument sections into 'high' and 'low' that will either be mixed slightly separately or together (for example 'high strings, low strings; high winds, low winds etc.) Is this the best way to group them for mixing them together?
6 років тому+1
Collin Brefka hey! I group them by family. So all strings low and high and I try to make them sound good with each other
Wow! Thank you so much for this in depth tutorial :) Sounds amazing. I was wondering where Epikus obtained these libraries? I recently bought East West libraries and they sound truly amazing. Problem is I can't put to many of them while writing because they are CPU heavy haha. I annoying have to bounce stuff which is annoying. It seems you can just leave your libraries in midi form? Thanks again I'll most likely be sending some future mixes your way, also I'll let my friends know!
7 років тому+2
Thank you so much ! Glad the video was helpful. Epikus uses mostly East west libraries, but also Cinesamples libraries, Drums of war, for example, on this track. If you don't have the CPU power or you need to send stems to an engineer, you have to bounce, but if you have enough CPU power you can just leave them in MIDI and mix like that. I'd be happy to mix your tracks :)
Thanks for the reply! I am currently downloading Drums of war haha... I also noticed you didn't use any high cuts on parts... Obviously I understand the vast importance of low cutting unnecessary rumble and mud but was wondering what your thoughts are on cutting the high end.. I usually high cut stuff on my mixes (electronic, rock) at approximately 12k - 18k range but have also noticed on my master spectral analyzer that my mixes lack high end as though they begin to high shelf down in the high end.. When I compare with my favourite reference tracks they are always balanced in the high end.. Is high cutting generally a bad idea? I'm starting to think it is Thanks in advance :)
7 років тому+2
High cutting can be useful, especially on guitars. It's not that common in orchestral, but sometimes you just need to. Let's say that you'll always do way more low cuts than high cuts.
@10:00 you say that treble with 10-20 K is actually *less* aggressive than treble with lower stats. First, can you please explain *what* that means, and then after *why* that is the case and not the other way around, per se? You see, I've just started learning about mixing orchestral (and any) music, and I'm currently studying theory as well as technical theory. So please try to explain it as simply as you can. :) Thank you!
Oh, also, do you have any recommendations or pointers (or videos you've covered yourself or watched) that teach more of the technical side of combining instruments and achieving not just "realistic", but actual harmonious and pleasant-sounding orchestral music? I'd hate to work so hard on a full composition only to have it sound bad despite having potential due to my own lack of skill. Sorry for the long questions - I'm just in a rapid learning stage. :)
6 років тому+1
10-20k is more the air region wheras below that would be more like the sibiliant region which the ear is more sensitive to (compared to the air region), for the same db level.
Lion's Heart Productions I kinda get it. I'll have to do some more studying. And thank you. I'm actually subbed to both of you guys :)
6 років тому+1
:) If you want to learn more, subscribe to my channel, i'll be releasing a course for a new company called "Trailer music academy" in the next few months, most likely during summer 2018. The info will be posted on this channel.
A few questions that came to mind: 1. What about the woodwinds!?! 2. Why are you using like 3 different EQ plugins (and sometimes even on the same channel)? 3. Where did you get all that knowledge? (which frequenties do what for what instrument etc)
8 років тому+1
XD that's true, there is no woodwinds in this track. Well, woodwinds, they usually don't require as much EQ but i would say it's kind of the same thing, use your ears, cut where needed to tighten them. But you might have to do less. Woodwinds sound surprisingly good out of the box. I'm using different EQ's because most of the time, one of them will be a vintage EQ with a saturation circuit built in. I also like the way the vintage EQ's sound so i use them for my main EQ moves, then i tighten that with a precise parametric EQ. About the knowledge, a few articles here and there but it's mostly practice. I don't know why but people rarely explain that online. If a frequency range is "bad" on an instrument, with practice, you will instantly know it.
How do you use Reverb? Do you add one per instrument or do you send all strings to their own mixer track and add a reverb for each section? If I did send all my strings to a single mixer track with reverb on it, how would I export the stems?
7 років тому+1
Hi, the way I do reverbs changed a bit since that video but yes I send groups of instruments to their reverb unit(s). Generally if you export stems for an engineer they will want without reverb but you can also export the reverb track separately , that however is not a common thing to do.
Thanks! I'm just wondering because I use Reaper, but prefer to mix in FL Studio which means I always export the stems from Reaper whenever I've finished composing a track. Would you recommend not adding any reverb in Reaper until I export the stems and start adding reverb in FL Studio whilst mixing?
7 років тому
Kurt Tomlinson | Compositions you can do some pre mixing and levels to help you composing but I'd recommend removing all effects before mixing in FL. That way you start fresh and your mix will only be better. You can only make the best decisions once the track is finished and you actually have the whole picture to work with, so don't start mixing in the composition process. Just a few quick moves and levels if you have to. It just makes way more sense.
Ohhh, so add fx and reverb as placeholders to hear what it might sound like in the end, then remove everything, export the stems, throw it into FL Studio and add them all in again?
7 років тому
Kurt Tomlinson | Compositions yes. If you have the full picture you might change how you put these FX, or the size of the reverb, etc.
I have a question. In which phase of your workflow you bounce your midi into audio tracks? Do you add effects before rendering or do you do reverb, delay, compression etc. after rendering into audio?
8 років тому
i don't bounce any midi into audio tracks, my midi triggers samples. i add effects before rendering because i have the processing power and it offers more flexibility too, so i can tweak dynamics and stuff without re bouncing.
How much do you charge to mix and master sir? I am in BAD need of an engineer and I absolutely love your work.
7 років тому
JoshuaHendricksMusic hey :) Glad you love my work!!! The pricing info is on my website here :) cheers! lionsheartproductions.com/services/mixing%20%26%20mastering.html
Quick question on string compression (sorry if someone else asked this), you say that later on there is more compression on the strings than in the beginning. Is that a function of fact that as the song progresses there's more strings going on, or are you automating the compressor controls to compress more there? That always get's me on things like strings.
6 років тому
Hey, that's just because the strings got louder. But to be honest i don't really compress the strings nowdays. I don't recommend it too much. If you want more character, use saturation but not full on compression. (Maybe check out my book in the description if you want more up to date info on everything).
I want to copy your settings! but in this video , I can't see your PSP settings :( .... can you help me?
7 років тому
Oh i'm not showing it? hmm well i usually add 2-4db of drive, knee on 20% or 25%, speed to the max and auto release, and i take out around 1db of gain reduction on the meter. and remove the brickwall limiter setting also
Lion's Heart Productions Oops sorry, didn't read the comments :-P great work and I have really benefited from this video a great deal and everytime I sit to mix my track I go back to this video to reference :-D awesome man, I love this video :-P
Why I found this only now?? 7 years later is still very useful and informative!🔥🔥 Thank you❤
This will be SO helpful for starting out learning thus stuff! Glad I could contribute my track to this tutorial, and I'm grateful you engineered this track!
you're welcome! I hope this tutorial can help many people.
Epikus Composer Listen to me.... You crushed this one baby boy good work !!!
Thanks!! I was starting to think nobody in the world (but me) was interested in mixing something that is NOT dance music. The hours I wasted watching videos that all told me the same: beat, more beat and then some more beat! GREAT JOB, man!!
Can't believe I only found this now. This is so helpful!
This is fantastic! You should keep doing these videos bro
Thanks :D i probably will never make another part though. This one was a lot of work and i think it has most of the essential information.
Oh, I understand, it's well made :)
Genuinely one of the best videos of this type that I have seen. Nice one!
1:40 Strings
5:09 Brass
6:48 Bid Drums
7:40 Taikos
9:50 Cymbals
12:20 Voice (Choir)
13:46 Voice solo
you covered up more than complete courses in one video
Hey bro, I just wanted to let you know I mixed and mastered my very first orchestral piece today and used all of your advice. Thanks for posting. This was incredibly helpful!
GotSoul Music yay I'm so glad it helped! I'll hear it! tell me when you upload it!
I can't share it publicly but I just emailed you a private link.
Amazing video…no words how much you gave away in 20mins. I wish i found this video when i was starting :) i learned all these things hard way so it took some time.
Joël - great video in conjunction with reading the Mixing Modern Orchestral Music ebook -- really helped reinforce things - thanks!
Just discovered your channel and this is really helpful. Thanks for doing this. It's really helpful to see how you approached this mix. Keep up!
Thanks haha but this video is sooooo old ! (so many things i would change) I recommend you check my newer stream archives and mix tip videos :D
@ There is still a lot of valuable advice in these old videos. It's still helpful even though it may feel outdated to you. Can't wait to see the stream archives! :D
Why haven't we heard this soundtrack in a movie yet? This is too great!
Great, this really helped me, couldn't find a very good guide to mixing and Eq drums in classical music! Thanks joel!
😀 Thanks for sharing this is really helpful...loving the accent...
🇫🇷🥖🇫🇷🧀🇫🇷🍷🇫🇷
Wow, just wow best mixing tips i've heard so far. SO Helpful!
Had to rewatch this
Very heplful advices in such a short video. Thank you so much!.
Excellent tutoriel qui couvre parfaitement les points essentiels du mixage orchestral. Ca fait un moment que je compose pour des courts métrages et tes conseils me permettront d'aller plus loin dans le travail de mes mix et mastering. Merci et bonne continuation à toi !
Content j'aie pu aider!! Bonne chance!
un énorme merci à toi, je travaille avec les sons kontakts dans logic et ne savais pas comment mixer mes compositions épiques et classiques, alors encore merci pour ce merveilleux partage!
De rien! C'est super si ça peut aider plein de monde :)
merci, si jamais ça t'intéresse je suis prof de chant (sur Genève) et suis aussi spécialisée aussi dans la voix off.. ai écouté tes merveilleuses compositions, bravo tu es vraiment doué , continue comme ça c'est magnifique! (-;
ouahhh j'ai des profs de musique qui écoutent mes morceaux?!! C'est super! Content que vous aimiez!
Thank you for this! I'm just starting out doing my own audio engineering projects and you've really given me insight into how to mix a plethora of various instruments.
this is awesome. I'm very glad I found your channel. Don't be afraid to make long videos, as everything you say is very relevant and to the point. thanks a lot for this video! :)
Thank you , i'm glad it helped :) If you're interested in having more detailed information, i'll be releasing a course for trailermusicacademy.com in a few months :)
Thank you for the explanations ! It's very clear, even when you say you're not going into much details. :)
i'm glad :) you're welcome!
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you!
Thanks a lot!!!!! Greetings from Colombia!!!!
The track is magic
So helpful! Thank you for sharing this!
Great comprehensive video. Thanks!
This was godsend! Thank you so much! I used every single tip and advice from this video and now my mix sounds WAY more epic than before! Also, a HUGE THANKS for explaining everything bit of everything from reasons to suggestions. That was a huge help in understanding the "why" behind different use of the different mixing and mastering techniques. I used to worry about loudness and tried to achieve maximum volume in my music before. The result would be fantastic loud music but horrible mixed instruments. I followed your advice throughout this video on a very recent track and compared the end result to an earlier "mixed and mastered" version I did and the difference is staggering. I almost cried, because after your video my mix was absolutely wonderful. Sure, the other track was LOUD but it wasn't good sounding. In fact, the new version is not only mixed well but is still loud enough. No longer will I be fixated on the idea of making my music super loud, but instead focus more on the actual way everything sounds together like I should've been doing a long time ago! From here on out, it's a matter of playing it by ear and using my better judgement on how I should mix everything in my music, now that I have a clearer understanding on how each plugin works in a track.
Rasheed Lindsey what a great comment, that's fantastic to hear! I'm so glad I made your mixes better. The thing is, the better the mix,the louder it sounds. If you listen to my latest track, harmonia, it's pretty loud, as loud as many metal records but what makes it sound so loud is because the drums are punchy, especially in the end. it's easy to get really loud masters if the mix is good but too loud is actually gonna end up sounding quieter and lifeless. So yeah, making the mix good first should be the main focus and then, mastering will be super easy.
Definitely notice that as well after my fifth review of the final version. I had an initial trouble with the threshold for my track in which you could "hear it do its job", but solved the problem when I realized that our songs are completely different and needed to use a different threshold than the one you used for this track. I will be taking a listen to your harmonia song very shortly. Your channel and another I found alongside it are now mainstay reference material and inspiration for me from now on. Also, I read your previous comment to someone else who mentioned the lack of woodwind mixing tips in this video and found your response to be exactly what I thought prior to mixing them. For some reason, I never felt (heard) any need to mix them with any eq or even reverb for the longest. However, I did do a bit of volume adjustment and I may also run some volume automaton for certain sections. But, you are right about not always having to eq woodwinds so much. They really do sound damn near perfect out of the box. I use EastWest Libraries and all of their wind instruments sound superb by default!
Rasheed Lindsey yup that's the thing! as you get better at mixing you will hear when something needs EQ or compression , when something is muddy it will be obvious. I'm sure there is muddy woodwind libraries out there but the instruments themselves tend to need less EQ. Threshold can be completely different, depends how loud the mix is. Threshold doesn't matter, what matters is the gain reduction. You're right!
Rasheed Lindsey but I also can't stress enough that it's impossible to copy EQ tips. depending on how heavy the arrangement is, you're gonna wanna leave more or less mids. making strings sound more silky on their own is a thing but maybe they'll start to sound thin if they're on their own.. for example. there is no magic answer, just practice. Also everything completely depends on the libraries used.
This is a great video, thank you SO much for the information. So helpful!!
WOW! Thanks for sharing this!
thank you i needed help try to clear up the boom area while bring up the instrument
Yeah, clearing boominess is essential !
Hey! Thanks so much for this. Immensely helpful. Can I ask what the Male operatic vocal plugin is please?
Great video and such detail! Excellent work :)
Glad it helped!
This has helped me tremendously mate!!!!! Thank you.
Allen Pierre you're welcome!
dude your knowledge of mixing is incredible, I've spent a lot with theory but non with mixing. I'm lost with a piece I've just made and could use some guidance. How much would you charge If i sent you the track? would you be able to take a listen and give some pointers?
Allen Pierre hey :) here are my rates for mixing and mastering. If you just want advice about how to mix it, I do give private lessons for 30$ per hour (as you can see on my website) we can definitely talk about track if you want. I wish I could still listen to everyone's tracks and give free feedback but I have lots of work coming from all directions at the moment and I have trouble keeping up. Hope you understand :/ Cheers!
Allen Pierre lionsheartproductions.com/services/mixing%20%26%20mastering.html
Absolutely man, I'm happy to pay for your knowledge, I'm really Interested to see how my mixed will turn out with you... Cheers man!
Amazing tutorial mate, really helpful. Thanks for sharing :)
You're welcome :D
Wonderful video! what sample libraries were used ?
Thanks mr Lion man :) This was very helpful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge :) Cheers
Thanks for this video I appreciate it.
excellent video "Merci"
This is beyond EPIC!!!! Thank you!!!!
This was EXCELLENT! Thank you!
hey Joël! interesting tutorial! the music is awesome!!!!!! like it!!! bravo bravo!! 😆😆
thanks :D I didn't make the track though :D
tomorrow i listening to the total video, with my wifi, but did you compose the track that you play in this intro? is awesome... you have to compose that music! goodnight sweet dreams! ciaooo 👋😌
no, this is a track by another composer called Epikus, I just mixed it :D But yeah it's a very epic track :)
Really nice video! You've helped me out hugely with regards to mixing! Thank you! =)
Karam Bharj Awesome! Glad to hear that!
I like the EQ tips, but I found that for orchestral music, this track is over compressed. I would have liked to hear more dynamic differences between the soft parts and the more epic parts. It sounded almost at the same volume and you can also see that in your master meter. Apart from that, I liked the workflow and how you have this very organized. :)
Wipe1254 hey, thanks for the feedback, actually, if you compare this track to commercial releases such as recent two steps from hell tracks, it's not that compressed. The beginning of the track is pretty quiet. and even in the loud parts, there is good amounts of drum impact. I know what you mean though and I guess it's a matter of taste, But I like to compress very big sounding tracks like that quite a bit (not as much as most commercial tracks like that though).
I agree, I have noticed that with Two Steps - they compress the daylight out of their tracks
Awesome I picked up a few tips Thanks :D
Great tutorial dude,very important :D
getting into the tutorial game eh! nice video and good information.
Probably the only one i'll ever make, just because was no tutorials about mixing epic music^^ Glad you liked it, nice to hear that from a pro engineer. ^_^
Than you so much its very needed to understandfrequencies
thanx for sharing
Mate, this is absolutely fantastic! Some brilliant tips in here! I'm a composer who has recently finishes writing an original musical. Producing the cast recording is proving tricky, but I'm sure I can use plenty of tips from here. You've made a lot of sense and I can't wait to apply some of these tricks. I'd love to hear you mix one of my tracks from the musical. Great work!
I'm glad it helped!
Honestly, fantastic advice. Question, how would you EQ timpani's? I struggle to find the right frequencies to boost or cut.... The ones you've used are different in tone to mine, so I'm not quite sure what to do...
Joe Purdue hm difficult to say without hearing them. they will generally have some muddiness around 200-300. you can boost 100 for the fundamental and 2000 -3000 for bite too
Great thank you. I will give that a try! So you route all 4 instrument sets to a bus, so all brass to one bus, all strings to one bus ect?
I think you've clued it all together really well, and it makes sense to put an overall EQ and compression on strings. Do you use a similar type of compression for brass and woodwinds? I find compressing orchestral instruments very tricky because you don't want to loose naturalism... Any tips there?
P.s I will check out your website and see about having a t track mixed at some point!
Joe Purdue hey, I do apply very light compression on some elements if needed (strings, piano, but it depends on the library). when compressing stuff like that I'll usually do very light compression or corrective multiband compression (low string harmonics being a bit jumpy) or stuff like that. For quieter tracks I might not do any compression except multiband on strings and drums compression. If you're not sure of what you're doing, don't mess with compression on stuff like strings or brass. it's easy to make something lifeless. I'd be happy to mix one of your tracks too :) email me anytime!
Hello! I keep coming back to this video when mixing, so helpful. I've sent you an email about a Skype lessons. Looking forward to learning more!
Unfolding Tales - A New Musical awesome! I'm so glad this video is helpful to you !
Just answered your email
great job. this is amazing! quick question. how would you go about mixing choirs?
if you want the "cut through" TSFH sound that you hear in their last album, boost 4khz as well as 12khz a few db (4 to 7 db maybe). If you want an airy choir just boost 12khz or even higher.
if the choir is muddy cut anywhere from 250 to 600hz.
reverb 40-50% wet
Done
PS: you're welcome for the video :D
Sympas comme style de vidéo, j'y comprend rien mais c'est intéressant x)
Sa fait aussi bizarre de ré-entendre cette voix :O
Continue comme ça lionceau !
SREWWWWZ! Coucou :D
Coucou x)
Awesome man keep up the good job!
Hope it helped !
I learnt so many things thanks a lot.
I'm happy i could teach you stuff! Thanks for watching!
Great tutorial! Thank you! :D
you're welcome :D
Thanks!
Wow so awesome to finally have a video like this. I've been searching for ages. I'm no expert on mixing but personally I would have EQ'ed the composer's voice a bit more. Like made a cut from 30Hz up to 16000 around 12DB...
Glad you like the video. 12DB? it wouldn't sound like a human voice anymore :D
It was a joke....a cut of 12DB from 30Hz to 16000 would remove the sound completely. Basically I thought the composer's voice sounded very out of place in the track and didn't work at all. :P
Please make more orchestral mixing and mastering videos. Non epic ones would be great too or otherwise more epic tracks is fine. You didn't cover woodwinds here for example. UA-cam is really lacking in orchestral specific mixing and mastering videos! Trust me I know, I've searched for a while for stuff like this.
Oh got it ^^ well to remove it completely you'd need a high pass filter but yeah xD
Well it's common to have opera vocals in these types of tracks and imo it worked :)
I don't think i'll make tutorials for other styles of music since there are plenty around already. I didn't cover woodwinds since there were none in this track but i think people can figure it out with the advice i gave in this vid^^
Oh I see, yes it is a good video. Not sure what other mixing videos you're referring to...the only ones I've found are for pop music, no orchestral ones. If you know of any others for orchestral music like this then please let me know. : )
loot6 I meant other tutorials for other genres. Plenty for Pop/Rock
Excellent boulot!Merci beaucoup!C'est exactement ce que je cherchais…Juste une question quelles banks tu utilises?les violons et les choeurs entre autres sonnent du tonnerre!!Bonne continuation a toi et encore merci..Respect!
nicolas thomas je crois que le compositeur utilise EWQL Hollywood strings, brass et requiem pro. Ce n'est pas mon morceau ^^
Salut Joël... One question : why doyou use 2 different EQ plugins ? What is the advantage?
great video thanks!
Thank you for the video, it was very interesting!
Glad it was!
Amazing tutorial! Thanks a lot for the effort :)
Greetings from Morocco =)
Thanks! you're welcome!
Greetings
tu es doué mec !! bravo !!
Thank you!
Awesome video thanks a lot!
Hello, I wanted to ask you a question about the monitor, mix movie orchestra music, are Yamaha hs7 or ns10 better for it? And what's better for mixing music? I have seen a lot of different opinions on the internet and that is why I am interested in something else. I have yet to buy monitors but I don't know exactly which one for this genre. Otherwise the studio will be in some mediocre room.
HS7 will be better but if your room is bad I recommend nice headphones instead like the HD600
Mhhm, I see, why hs7 :)? Why is better than ns10?
10/10 video great info
Great video,do more tutorials :D
Hallo, kommen Sie zufällig aus Deutschland? Und können mir bitte bezüglich EQ und Orchester helfen? Ich habe mit dem englischen Probleme....
Thanks for this tutorial :)
The explanations are fine, but i'd wished for more (or actually any) audio examples, literally after each step, let it play to hear whats going on. Neverless, thanks for the video !
Chriszz zzh I'm writing a course right now for trailer music academy which will go fully in depth with hours of content and text/pictures/audio examples as well. I'll post about it on my channel when it's done :) this was just meant to be a quick and easy tutorial for basics. Glad it's still helpful!
That sounds great, looking forward to it...subscribed :)
What string library are you using? Thanks for the video.
thank you very much
I always find myself coming back to this video - it's amazing! One question - I noticed you are using more than one compressor when mastering with different settings, but if you were only using one, what would your attack and release times be for this type of piece?
It's so easy to ruin a track if you're not mastering correctly, so I need to be careful. Also would it would be the same for Multi-band compression, slow attack, fast release?
In a month or so when I get paid I'm going to book a Skype lesson with you. I find your videos & your mixing tips better than anyone else out there. Keep up the great work!
Hey , i'd use attacks not shorter than 10ms. anywhere from 10 to 30ms and release anywhere from 100 to 300 depending on how fast the piece is. Faster piece, shorter release.
for multiband compression, it's a bit long to explain but it depends on what frequencies you're compressing and what you want to do. different frequencies need different attack and release speeds for optimal sound.
Well i'm looking forward to our lesson then :) I'm glad my video helped!
Oh right fantastic - that's really helpful as I assumed a short release was fast than that at like 35-50ms, but then something didn't sound right! I will try your suggestion!
As for the Multi-band compression I thought that maybe the case. I will have a play around with different settings and see what I can find.
Brilliant, I look forward to speaking with you. I'll be in touch soon!
This is amazing, thank you brother!
Could you tell me what library you used for French horns? Sounded incredible.
Ellency Its probably “SYMPHONIC BRASS” by Spitfire Audio. They are one of the best. Kinda pricy (around €700-800) but it’s money well spent.
Do you have any advice on how to EQ auxiliary instruments such as pianos, celestes, and harps? What about the woodwind section?
Hey, for these instruments, it really depends on the recording. For the harp i'd say watch out for boomy low notes around 200 hz just like for acoustic guitars, for celestes, pianos, and woodwinds, watch out 300-600hz for any unnecessary "boxiness"
Alright, thank you for the reply! :D
hey First off its a Very cool video you explain quiet well and thanks you
and secondly are you français ? 🙃
Thank you. And oui oui XD
what are your favorite reverbs?
Excellent video man, very well explained. You boosted a lot of instruments on the high end, is that to add more clarity?
Moreshwar Briscoe hey! yep it helps making them pop! careful tho. Not too much.
salut, est que tu fera d'autre tutos sur l'orchestration? genre le workflow sur fl , le midi ,et sur kontakt car qui dit orchestral dit forcement kontakt :)
en attendant je m'abonne ,car c'est rare de voir des tuto d'orchestration sur fl studio.
Hey pour ça je donne des cours :) lionsheartproductions.com/services/lessons.html
Merci de t'abo!
MDM je ne pense pas faire d'autres tutos
Salut Joël, tu pourrais faire la même mais en français stp? 😁
Hello, can you please tell us what libraries do you use....thanks.
Joel, I have a question.
Right now, I am relying on an orchestral frequency chart that I downloaded a week ago that shows where each orchestral instrument sit in what ranges. Very straightforward and I mix according to that chart as well as my ears. As a result, I get clean mixes and no instruments are fighting each other.
However, when I compared the mix to a reference track, I got non pleasant results even if the mix still sounds good. In other words, I really don't know what to do next to improve my mixing or mastering skills. I feel my mixing skills reached a block end or reached an optimum mixing level and can't go up to the next level.
What shall I do?
What about exciters? Do you use them? Any advice where to put it? For example, before the last EQ?
I don't really use them for mastering but in my book there a few instances where i talk about them in specific situations (check the description.)
Great, I've already bought it, thanks for your channel and your book, you're awesome.
I mean I bought it a few days ago and yesterday started reading it...
Thank you for the support! The book goes a lot more in depth than the video for a lot of things, i hope it helps!
ahh gotcha ! Yeah in my opinion it's kind of the next step after the video (skipping a lot of basics in the book)
I wanted to ask what your current thoughts are on mixing orchestral sections. At the moment I group instrument sections into 'high' and 'low' that will either be mixed slightly separately or together (for example 'high strings, low strings; high winds, low winds etc.) Is this the best way to group them for mixing them together?
Collin Brefka hey! I group them by family. So all strings low and high and I try to make them sound good with each other
Wow! Thank you so much for this in depth tutorial :) Sounds amazing. I was wondering where Epikus obtained these libraries? I recently bought East West libraries and they sound truly amazing. Problem is I can't put to many of them while writing because they are CPU heavy haha. I annoying have to bounce stuff which is annoying. It seems you can just leave your libraries in midi form?
Thanks again I'll most likely be sending some future mixes your way, also I'll let my friends know!
Thank you so much ! Glad the video was helpful.
Epikus uses mostly East west libraries, but also Cinesamples libraries, Drums of war, for example, on this track.
If you don't have the CPU power or you need to send stems to an engineer, you have to bounce, but if you have enough CPU power you can just leave them in MIDI and mix like that.
I'd be happy to mix your tracks :)
Thanks for the reply! I am currently downloading Drums of war haha...
I also noticed you didn't use any high cuts on parts... Obviously I understand the vast importance of low cutting unnecessary rumble and mud but was wondering what your thoughts are on cutting the high end..
I usually high cut stuff on my mixes (electronic, rock) at approximately 12k - 18k range but have also noticed on my master spectral analyzer that my mixes lack high end as though they begin to high shelf down in the high end.. When I compare with my favourite reference tracks they are always balanced in the high end..
Is high cutting generally a bad idea? I'm starting to think it is
Thanks in advance :)
High cutting can be useful, especially on guitars. It's not that common in orchestral, but sometimes you just need to.
Let's say that you'll always do way more low cuts than high cuts.
@10:00 you say that treble with 10-20 K is actually *less* aggressive than treble with lower stats. First, can you please explain *what* that means, and then after *why* that is the case and not the other way around, per se?
You see, I've just started learning about mixing orchestral (and any) music, and I'm currently studying theory as well as technical theory. So please try to explain it as simply as you can. :) Thank you!
Oh, also, do you have any recommendations or pointers (or videos you've covered yourself or watched) that teach more of the technical side of combining instruments and achieving not just "realistic", but actual harmonious and pleasant-sounding orchestral music?
I'd hate to work so hard on a full composition only to have it sound bad despite having potential due to my own lack of skill. Sorry for the long questions - I'm just in a rapid learning stage. :)
10-20k is more the air region wheras below that would be more like the sibiliant region which the ear is more sensitive to (compared to the air region), for the same db level.
Check out Alex Moukala on youtube!
Lion's Heart Productions I kinda get it. I'll have to do some more studying. And thank you. I'm actually subbed to both of you guys :)
:) If you want to learn more, subscribe to my channel, i'll be releasing a course for a new company called "Trailer music academy" in the next few months, most likely during summer 2018. The info will be posted on this channel.
OMG, YES!
You're welcome ^_^
A few questions that came to mind:
1. What about the woodwinds!?!
2. Why are you using like 3 different EQ plugins (and sometimes even on the same channel)?
3. Where did you get all that knowledge? (which frequenties do what for what instrument etc)
XD that's true, there is no woodwinds in this track. Well, woodwinds, they usually don't require as much EQ but i would say it's kind of the same thing, use your ears, cut where needed to tighten them. But you might have to do less. Woodwinds sound surprisingly good out of the box.
I'm using different EQ's because most of the time, one of them will be a vintage EQ with a saturation circuit built in. I also like the way the vintage EQ's sound so i use them for my main EQ moves, then i tighten that with a precise parametric EQ.
About the knowledge, a few articles here and there but it's mostly practice. I don't know why but people rarely explain that online. If a frequency range is "bad" on an instrument, with practice, you will instantly know it.
Thanks, you're awesome for sharing so much knowledge with us/me :D
How do you use Reverb? Do you add one per instrument or do you send all strings to their own mixer track and add a reverb for each section? If I did send all my strings to a single mixer track with reverb on it, how would I export the stems?
Hi, the way I do reverbs changed a bit since that video but yes I send groups of instruments to their reverb unit(s). Generally if you export stems for an engineer they will want without reverb but you can also export the reverb track separately , that however is not a common thing to do.
Thanks! I'm just wondering because I use Reaper, but prefer to mix in FL Studio which means I always export the stems from Reaper whenever I've finished composing a track. Would you recommend not adding any reverb in Reaper until I export the stems and start adding reverb in FL Studio whilst mixing?
Kurt Tomlinson | Compositions you can do some pre mixing and levels to help you composing but I'd recommend removing all effects before mixing in FL. That way you start fresh and your mix will only be better. You can only make the best decisions once the track is finished and you actually have the whole picture to work with, so don't start mixing in the composition process. Just a few quick moves and levels if you have to. It just makes way more sense.
Ohhh, so add fx and reverb as placeholders to hear what it might sound like in the end, then remove everything, export the stems, throw it into FL Studio and add them all in again?
Kurt Tomlinson | Compositions yes. If you have the full picture you might change how you put these FX, or the size of the reverb, etc.
I have a question. In which phase of your workflow you bounce your midi into audio tracks? Do you add effects before rendering or do you do reverb, delay, compression etc. after rendering into audio?
i don't bounce any midi into audio tracks, my midi triggers samples. i add effects before rendering because i have the processing power and it offers more flexibility too, so i can tweak dynamics and stuff without re bouncing.
Hey man what if I use mid/side compression for the drums (or for even anything) can I get away with minimal EQ? What's your opinion on that?
Hey! In my opinion nothing replaces EQ. Mid-side shouldn't be overused. I almost never use it nowdays.
How much do you charge to mix and master sir? I am in BAD need of an engineer and I absolutely love your work.
JoshuaHendricksMusic hey :) Glad you love my work!!! The pricing info is on my website here :) cheers! lionsheartproductions.com/services/mixing%20%26%20mastering.html
Quick question on string compression (sorry if someone else asked this), you say that later on there is more compression on the strings than in the beginning. Is that a function of fact that as the song progresses there's more strings going on, or are you automating the compressor controls to compress more there? That always get's me on things like strings.
Hey, that's just because the strings got louder. But to be honest i don't really compress the strings nowdays. I don't recommend it too much. If you want more character, use saturation but not full on compression. (Maybe check out my book in the description if you want more up to date info on everything).
THX! but mastering section, How can I use PSP VintageWarmer? can you tell me about preset example??
Hey you should think of the PSP vintage warmer as a normal glue compressor, copying my settings in this video isn't a bad idea
I want to copy your settings! but in this video , I can't see your PSP settings :( .... can you help me?
Oh i'm not showing it? hmm well i usually add 2-4db of drive, knee on 20% or 25%, speed to the max and auto release, and i take out around 1db of gain reduction on the meter. and remove the brickwall limiter setting also
Oh, Thank you!! :)
all those plug ins,Do you have problem with delay compensation?
Not really, as long as you make sure you do the routing correctly so that you don't end up with comb filtering, delay compensation works
Ohhh heyy nice idea :D
hey :D
Lion's Heart Productions I like ur profile pic hah ;)
me too :D great art bro !
Lion's Heart Productions glad u like it. thanks!
Sorry, how much dbfs for premastering?
Anything below clipping. -6 is generally recommended just to make sure there is no peaks clipping.
Lion's Heart Productions thanks! :-)
Hey how did you make the compressor in the sub mix of the war drums and Taikos to cut the bass only when the hits play? Was it sidechaining!
TheAudiocrat Yep! Mentionned that in the description but forgot to say it in the video :(
Lion's Heart Productions Oops sorry, didn't read the comments :-P great work and I have really benefited from this video a great deal and everytime I sit to mix my track I go back to this video to reference :-D awesome man, I love this video :-P
TheAudiocrat cool!! :D
omg :3 love it