Robb Stark humiliated the lannister forces and was the first man in nearly 30 years to best Tywin on the field of battle,the north along with their allies in the riverlands would be able to muster a defensive force large enough to hold back both armies,surely Tyrion knew he wouldn't agree to such terms...
he learned from Ned who was one of the most involved Commanders in two rebellions, and Ned also learned from his father, and Ned never knew him to be wrong about matters of combat apparently crazy amount of experience
Robb never met Tywin's host. He had two great victories, both of which were surprise attacks led by his Wolf. Had he met Tywin's far lager and better equipped army, he likely would have been vanquished. Not to mention, that he could not possibly conquer the Westerlands or just the most important locations, and he was too far away from his kingdom. The Riverlands and their armies had been largely destroyed by this point. Robb's position and capability is largely exaggerated both by the Northmen and the fans.
@@MrBell-iq3smLoL. Edmure destroyed Tywin's "far larger and better equipped army, even managing to injure Tywin himself. War isn't always dictated by the quality of armies, tactics and home advantage are also key factors.
@@godfreylingad4993 Destroyed? He pushed some troops, who wanted to cross a river, which is always a risky endeavor, back. Tywin arrived with a full host in King's Landing. A 'bloody nose' that was the description of his victory over Tywin, not a defeat and certainly not a destruction.
A few weeks later Lancel: you know that Lannister host you boasted about to the Stark king who has already destroyed a Lannister army and has the North and Riverlands backing him up? Tyrion: yes Lancel: we’ll he crushed that army and took more hostages Tyrion: oops
Dear Robb, we want you to kneel to us, and return to Winterfell empty-handed. Also handover your army to my brother, who is your captive, to fight our enemies, not yours. Tell you bannermen to send their children to replace your sisters as hostages. Oh, you can have your dads bones back, so nice of us to have had him de-headed. PS: we have 2 armies coming for you from predictable positions (beware!), and your possible allies are a bit busy, and the ally you don't even need is kinda supporting us. Kinda.
That's part of negotiating. Furthermore, Robb's position was untenable in the long run, despite what the Northerners or many fans would like to claim. He had not the resources to achieve a military victory.
@@MrBell-iq3sma stalemate would have been sufficient to bleed out the throne. The only reason the Lannisters won the war was because of the Tyrells lol.
@ The Frey's had additional 4k men, this isn't enough. People think winning a war means winning battles, but this isn't the case. England had some overwhelming victories in the 100-year-war, and they still lost. Hannibal won every battle he fought, but didn't have the means to take the important Roman settlements, or the necessary allies, and ultimately lost in a war of attrition.
Robb had magical help. His Direwold, like all the other Direwolf are under the control of someone else, and Robb's two biggest victories in the field were surprise attacks led by Direwolf.
@@udttdujgx The Wolf led them past the Lannister scouts and through a hidden goat path, allowing Robb to take the Lannisters by surprise. Do you think the Lannisters would have lost if they had noticed Robb's approach?
@@MrBell-iq3sm seeing as it's emphasized the army was headed by an incompetent nepo position and filled with completely untrained fresh troops basically dredged from the streets, yeah it's likely they still lose
@@udttdujgx Despite formal training, better equipment, better knowledge of the area, local support and numerical superiority? I doubt it. And Jaimie? Do you think he would have lost had his scouts spotted Robb? Wouldn't he have pulled his forces together and smashed the inexperienced, outnumbered Northeners led by someone, who has never seen battle before?
you don't understand, book Tyrion is different, he's not a good guy at all, he's a schemer and pretty selfish, he's Tywin's son I guess you could argue Tywin would be a good King because he was a great Hand, but he'd put the benefits of his family over the realm
@Ar1AnX1x mmmm interesting, I think he'd put the realm first to bring prestige to his houses name, to be honest tywin was never about his family. Only how his family looked. If tyein was king his family would be an absolute mess. The seven kingdoms would just never know the full extent. Dude is a master of propaganda
This was a pretty dumb move by Tyrion since he could have had the North and Riverlands back down which would have allowed Tywin’s army to come to King’s Landing to prepare against Stannis. Better terms would have been an exchange of all hostages, returning Ice, the bones of Ned and everyone else who died and a marriage betrothal to ensure long term peace.
It still a wonder to me why Tywin refused to marry Cersei and Jaime to Elia and Oberyn when he had the chance but now fine with Marcyella with Trstane Martell?
Tyrion was never properly instructed in warfare like Jaime was. Plus, Tyrion was never a very cunning man as he thought he was, in the books everyone really played circles around him, the real heavy hitters were always Varys and Littlefinger, none else.
@@indigomoraes7105 Are you forgetting Tyrion's stellar defense against King's landing against Stannis the Mannis. I'm talking battle quality, while politics he was pretty mediocre. Robb Stark only won those battles, because he ambushed Jaime and Stafford. Not to mention Stafford is incompetent. If it was an ordered battle like Greenfork, Tyrion would crush him
Naw Robb handled his 1v2 against Jamie, and tywin pathetic tywin couldn't do shit except for setting up robb because he couldn't defeat him in the field the half man ain't doing nothing either.
@@chaos_knight_xy this is major cope. Robbs wolf granted him a ton of Wins and Tywin literally got made a fool out of same with Jamie both had armies bigger than Robbs singular host The Fact of the matter is that in Warfare Tywin is lacking while Robb was a battlefield genius with little to no political mind to him cuz of his upbringing. Jon Snow is a bit more political in the books and wouldve served well to be a good advisor to Robb Tyrion also mounted a defensive position with the Mountain clans Gold Cloaks and wildfire that CERSEI ordered initially the only thing the wildfire even did was weaken Stannis's host enough that he couldnt defend himself against Tywin and the Tyrells and thus got crushed Sure Tyrions defenses bought them time which let Tywin come to their aid but it was never going to be enough.
Tyrion also didn’t expect Robb to accept the terms. Which is why he sent criminals with the Lannister envoys to break his brother out of captivity
Robb Stark humiliated the lannister forces and was the first man in nearly 30 years to best Tywin on the field of battle,the north along with their allies in the riverlands would be able to muster a defensive force large enough to hold back both armies,surely Tyrion knew he wouldn't agree to such terms...
he learned from Ned who was one of the most involved Commanders in two rebellions, and Ned also learned from his father, and Ned never knew him to be wrong about matters of combat apparently
crazy amount of experience
Robb never met Tywin's host.
He had two great victories, both of which were surprise attacks led by his Wolf. Had he met Tywin's far lager and better equipped army, he likely would have been vanquished. Not to mention, that he could not possibly conquer the Westerlands or just the most important locations, and he was too far away from his kingdom.
The Riverlands and their armies had been largely destroyed by this point.
Robb's position and capability is largely exaggerated both by the Northmen and the fans.
@@MrBell-iq3smLoL. Edmure destroyed Tywin's "far larger and better equipped army, even managing to injure Tywin himself. War isn't always dictated by the quality of armies, tactics and home advantage are also key factors.
@@godfreylingad4993 Destroyed? He pushed some troops, who wanted to cross a river, which is always a risky endeavor, back. Tywin arrived with a full host in King's Landing.
A 'bloody nose' that was the description of his victory over Tywin, not a defeat and certainly not a destruction.
That's bs , but again if you couldn't read the books how can I expect you to read my comment
A few weeks later
Lancel: you know that Lannister host you boasted about to the Stark king who has already destroyed a Lannister army and has the North and Riverlands backing him up?
Tyrion: yes
Lancel: we’ll he crushed that army and took more hostages
Tyrion: oops
"Lancel Lannister! What a stupid name!"
-Robert Baratheon
Dear Robb, we want you to kneel to us, and return to Winterfell empty-handed. Also handover your army to my brother, who is your captive, to fight our enemies, not yours. Tell you bannermen to send their children to replace your sisters as hostages. Oh, you can have your dads bones back, so nice of us to have had him de-headed.
PS: we have 2 armies coming for you from predictable positions (beware!), and your possible allies are a bit busy, and the ally you don't even need is kinda supporting us. Kinda.
Tyrion as he's writing the terms: He's going to see right through the BS about Joffrey and goodwill.
That's part of negotiating. Furthermore, Robb's position was untenable in the long run, despite what the Northerners or many fans would like to claim.
He had not the resources to achieve a military victory.
@@MrBell-iq3sma stalemate would have been sufficient to bleed out the throne. The only reason the Lannisters won the war was because of the Tyrells lol.
@@MrBell-iq3smhe had the Freys until his marriage with the westering girl. Not to mention the Manderlies who's host wasn't fully sent to the war
@ The Frey's had additional 4k men, this isn't enough. People think winning a war means winning battles, but this isn't the case. England had some overwhelming victories in the 100-year-war, and they still lost. Hannibal won every battle he fought, but didn't have the means to take the important Roman settlements, or the necessary allies, and ultimately lost in a war of attrition.
Rob was magical! Remember what he did to that new Lannister army!
Robb had magical help. His Direwold, like all the other Direwolf are under the control of someone else, and Robb's two biggest victories in the field were surprise attacks led by Direwolf.
@@MrBell-iq3smyou really think battles among tens of thousands of men were decided by a single wolf?
@@udttdujgx The Wolf led them past the Lannister scouts and through a hidden goat path, allowing Robb to take the Lannisters by surprise. Do you think the Lannisters would have lost if they had noticed Robb's approach?
@@MrBell-iq3sm seeing as it's emphasized the army was headed by an incompetent nepo position and filled with completely untrained fresh troops basically dredged from the streets, yeah it's likely they still lose
@@udttdujgx Despite formal training, better equipment, better knowledge of the area, local support and numerical superiority? I doubt it.
And Jaimie? Do you think he would have lost had his scouts spotted Robb? Wouldn't he have pulled his forces together and smashed the inexperienced, outnumbered Northeners led by someone, who has never seen battle before?
Sad that they never sat peter dinklage on the throne in the show
It's a shame they never had the proper throne to begin with. Imagine Peter dinklidge (apologies for the misspellings) acting on that mammoth throne!
you don't understand, book Tyrion is different, he's not a good guy at all, he's a schemer and pretty selfish, he's Tywin's son
I guess you could argue Tywin would be a good King because he was a great Hand, but he'd put the benefits of his family over the realm
@Ar1AnX1x mmmm interesting, I think he'd put the realm first to bring prestige to his houses name, to be honest tywin was never about his family. Only how his family looked. If tyein was king his family would be an absolute mess. The seven kingdoms would just never know the full extent. Dude is a master of propaganda
He'd need a step stool. Lol
Man I wonder how that new “great host at Casterly Rock” got on
This was a pretty dumb move by Tyrion since he could have had the North and Riverlands back down which would have allowed Tywin’s army to come to King’s Landing to prepare against Stannis.
Better terms would have been an exchange of all hostages, returning Ice, the bones of Ned and everyone else who died and a marriage betrothal to ensure long term peace.
Tyrion literally gives robb information about another Lannisters army to destroy because robb later destroy that newly raised lannister army.
What about just back to the north, no swear fealty but maybe still pay tax, no hostage, just like "okay I'm go back to home" ?
Honestly pretty good terms
Good terms for them, but for no one else are not good terms.
You forgot to say "Did you know in the books" :o
“each of stark’s banner men must send of a son as hostage” might be the dumbest part of what he said there, i don’t think the north would ever agree
Really? That is the most bull shit thing ever
Robb Stark's number one fan is back. LOL
@chaos_knight_xy, the frey lover is back. Hey, I just rewatched the freys getting cut up and baked by arya it was fun, lmao. 😁
@ You mean D&D's bad fan fiction, gotcha.
@@chaos_knight_xythe only good thing they actually did.
It still a wonder to me why Tywin refused to marry Cersei and Jaime to Elia and Oberyn when he had the chance but now fine with Marcyella with Trstane Martell?
Tyrion would absolutely clap Robb Stark in battle.
Stark's dire wolf cheat codes ain't going save him from Tyrion's tactical and strategic mind.
Tyrion was never properly instructed in warfare like Jaime was. Plus, Tyrion was never a very cunning man as he thought he was, in the books everyone really played circles around him, the real heavy hitters were always Varys and Littlefinger, none else.
@@indigomoraes7105 Are you forgetting Tyrion's stellar defense against King's landing against Stannis the Mannis. I'm talking battle quality, while politics he was pretty mediocre.
Robb Stark only won those battles, because he ambushed Jaime and Stafford. Not to mention Stafford is incompetent.
If it was an ordered battle like Greenfork, Tyrion would crush him
Naw Robb handled his 1v2 against Jamie, and tywin pathetic tywin couldn't do shit except for setting up robb because he couldn't defeat him in the field the half man ain't doing nothing either.
@@chaos_knight_xy this is major cope. Robbs wolf granted him a ton of Wins and Tywin literally got made a fool out of same with Jamie both had armies bigger than Robbs singular host
The Fact of the matter is that in Warfare Tywin is lacking while Robb was a battlefield genius with little to no political mind to him cuz of his upbringing.
Jon Snow is a bit more political in the books and wouldve served well to be a good advisor to Robb
Tyrion also mounted a defensive position with the Mountain clans Gold Cloaks and wildfire that CERSEI ordered initially
the only thing the wildfire even did was weaken Stannis's host enough that he couldnt defend himself against Tywin and the Tyrells and thus got crushed
Sure Tyrions defenses bought them time which let Tywin come to their aid but it was never going to be enough.
@invictus6176 exactly finally someone with a brain.
This was actually a really great deal. Tyrion would’ve made an amazing king. What he lacks in humility he makes up for it in empathy and intelligence.