There are one that did exchanges with other mainline trains that gots it's power from a steam power plant that was a pressurized steam locomotive within a firebox in the US I don't know if it survived diesels taking the steam locomotives place in a railroad museum or not, I've only seen one on my 5 pack DVD set called Railway Journey's the Vanishing Age of Steam
Don't forget soda locomotives. Soda locomotives were a variant of fireless locomotives, in which steam was raised in a boiler, expanded through cylinders in the usual way, and then condensed in a tank of caustic soda that surrounded the boiler. Dissolving water in caustic soda liberated heat, which generated more steam from the boiler, until the caustic soda became too dilute to release heat at a useful temperature.
Fireless locomotives are some of my favourite little quirks of engineering! Especially the fact that they required specialised radiator fins on the pistons to prevent them from freezing solid due to the temperature drop caused by rapidly expanding air, and the truly bizarre looking ones that originated from the realisation that lots of tiny storage cylinders could allow drastically higher pressures- and resultingly, ranges- than a single big one.
look at it the other way. the air has two choices when the pressure is reduced. to absorb heat, and expand. or sit there and stay at the same volume with no temperature change. the fins arent there to stop it from freezing, theyre there to maximise the amount of atmospheric heat that can be dumped into the air so it CAN expand... and therein lies the soul of every engine... supplying heat to make things expand. the same era that fireless locos and compressed air locos were in common use, so were things like "air re-heaters", to get compressed air lines up to a temperature where the air could expand fully, release more energy and do more work, without tools freezing up... cold tools are actually less powerful than hot tools. the air doesnt expand fully. the pressure isnt maintained, or, you use more air to maintain a given pressure. easy experiment, run a die grinder or other air tool with the air line coiled up in a bucket of boiling water... you will be surprised.
@@seneca983 smaller chambers with the same thickness can withstand higher pressures than larger ones- similar to how a watertube boiler can achieve much higher pressures than a fire tube one. A smaller pressure vessel has proportionally thicker walls + higher strength, so a lot of compressed air locomotives would use many many small tanks with diameters of just a few inches, each with unbelievable pressures, allowing a net increase on stored air and resultantly range
Another interesting fireless steam locomotive were the Swiss steam engines that used electric overhead wires to power a resistive heater element to heat steam. Because there was a coal shortage in Switzerland during WWII, but they had enough hydro power.
They were regular steam engines converted as an emergency to electric heating. There was a severe shortage of electric engines and lack of coal. It was inefficient but it did the work for that time. After WW2 they were coverted back to coal heating
Back in 1961 I was taken on a tour of our local power station where I was shown the two fireless locos and the railway line connection to the main line coal yard a half mile away. I was invited back the next week and spent the greater part of the day on the footplate and then driving one of the locos, collecting coal wagons and returning the empties. It was bliss and I have never forgotten it. I was 13 at the time.
Guess these tank engines weren’t such a “blown up” waste after all. In all seriousness they do look like a tanker disguised as a steam engine and a more reliable one at that
The one used at Eastriggs (not actually Gretna) explosives factory was powered by compressed air. You can still see it (unrestored) at The Devil's Porridge Museum. (The Devil's Porridge was the name given to the cordite, a mixture of guncotton and nitroglycerin, made there.)
I used to live near one of the main european ammunition depots, where fireless locomotives could regularly be seen crossing the public road. I moved away in 2000, but I assume they may still be in use.
@@seeker1015 Compressed air locomotives were used in the mining industry due to air quality and exposition risk issues. They often used the roof as a radiator to pull in heat. Isothermal compression could in theory be nearly 100% efficient by insulating the compressed air storage and not cooling the air.
Two additions. Some fireless engines used caustic soda dissolution to produce extra heat. They were more effective than simple fireless engine but aggressive compounds provoked corrosion and could cause serious burns. The earliest russian pneumatic locomotives was "Dukhokhod" (it can be translated as "pneumomotive") built by Baranovsky in Saint-Petersburg in 1861. Although it had several progressive engineering solutions it was retired soon as the maintenance was too difficult.
Caustic soda sounds like a really bad and dangerous thing to use for sure to generate extra heat. Even if the cylinders and piping ect were made from corrosion resistamt materials, the way steam engines in general spray steam and water at high pressure from the cylinders while they are operating you would have corrosive caustic flying everywhere. All over the loco, on the rails, on nearby standing people and also probably the train driver, all over the ground ect.
Greetings from America! I live in St. Louis, Missouri, close to the National Museum of Transportation at 2933 Barrett Station Road. There are at least two "Fireless Locomotives" there on display. One is the 0-4-0 switcher "National Cash Register #7 Locomotive," AKA "The South Park," (no, really,) built in 1910. The other is the 0-6-0 switcher "Union Electric Locomotive #2," built in 1940, with its famous "Smiley Face" painted on the front. Both were used in industrial situations where a firebox would have been dangerous, but where plenty of superheated water was on tap. Thanks for sharing this with us! 440th (4-4-0?) Like.
4-4-0? How "American" of you...! I flew there once, awesome place. They also have a GM Aerotrain (which looks way less cool in person that it did on the cover of that "Trains" book I read back in the 60s; those single axle coaches that CLEARLY identify as a bus are a joke - like a British Rail "Pacer" but without the style and comfort; but its still of historic interest) and a Chrysler Turbine car. Carillon Historic Park in Dayton OH which is heavy-ish on train stuff (plus, oddly, a wild Bald Eagle nest), has 2 fireless locomotives. One is (thus far) a wreck and only with difficulty distinguishable from a mound of iron oxide but also the "Rubicon" which is fully restored for static display. ua-cam.com/video/i9hE5UIgrqY/v-deo.html
@@natehill8069 Well, we Yanks are quite fond of that wheel arrangement . . . . The Aerotrain and the Chrysler Turbine Car are some of my favorite exhibits. But it's the iconic 4-8-8-4 Union Pacific Big Boy that always held my personal fascination. It's almost (or was, anyway,) a rite of passage for a boy to ring the bell on the #4006 Big Boy at least once.
How about parental pressure? "Why are you still here? Get going or you will never be useful engine like Thomas or have your own express line like Gordon!"
There’s a compressed-air engine at the Toronto rail museum, it’s so tiny I can’t see anyone actually using the cab unless they had a very short stool to sit on, but a cab it has! If I recall correctly it was used at a flour mill, not somewhere you want a fire hazard.
I actually work at said museum and can fill you in on some details. The cab may look tiny from the outside, but having actually been in the thing it's not as cramped as it looks, the floor is surprisingly deep due to a lack of trailing wheels. The engine was used at a cordage plant in Welland Ontario, it produced things like baler twine and fishing nets, both of which are extremely flammable, which is why fireless locomotives proved useful. They used it right up until the late 50s when it was replaced by forklifts.
Fireless steam locomotives do run on steam but use steam from stationary boilers for example in chemical plants where any locomotive producing even only sparks like Diesels or Electrics would be too much of a hazard . Fireless locos store their steam in pressure vessels carried in the same place as the boiler with its firebox on a conventional steam loco. What they don't have at first glance is a smoke box with its smoke stack😮. Most photos shown here however are from conventional locomotives or from tram locos which have a conventional boiler but hiding under a tram like body . So please get the basic facts straight Klaus
Here in Slovenia, we have a standard gauge fireless steam locomotive LBV-04, still in use at the thermal cogeneration (TETOL) in Moste, eastern part of Ljubljana and I just recently found out as well! Besides its the only steam locomotive in regular service in our country.
Dinky, a small American fireless engine, still exists on display near the beaches of Harbor Beach, MI, right next to the plant (a mine, prior) it served. Pretty cool little guy, with a nice board nearby explaining the area's former railroading past.
Fun fact: the tram car shown from 1:50 (with lettering BAERENGRABEN 5 BAHNHOF FRIEDHOF) is not powered by steam but by compressed air. It ran in the Swiss city of Bern, was built locally in 1890, retired and scrapped in 1901
I have seen a couple of Fireless steam locomotives at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, which are Pennsylvania Power & Light Co. 4094 (The largest Fireless steam locomotive in the world, and was later became basis for Streamlined version of Thomas the Tank Engine in the Great Rave 2016), and Bethlehem Steel No. 111.
A Fireless locomotive is flash-proof I believe. Unless you count the friction of the flanges against the rails on tight corners. If you have a massive source of steam on-site they would make sense even today. One was retained for a long time at Glaxo Chemicals in Ulverston UK as late as 1992.
I had no idea these quirky little machines existed, let alone be useful in so many situations! I absolutely love this channel! (btw, what's the name of the music in the beckground? I swear I've heard it in a Nintendo game before)
the ones in the dayton caroline museum are interesting old examples that once saved the city after it flooded since they were capable of operating in the flood waters and were so massively heavy they kept traction. one of the interesting things is they actually kept boiling water as they were mostly filled with water then blasted with superheated steam until they reached the peak temperature
It feels weird commenting on a Train of Thought video less than an hour after it’s uploaded as I’m usually in class when they come out, but today I’m doing my leaving certificate and am currently on my break.
Man, I asked you for trains on logs and pneumo-trains back when you asked for ideas. Now that the log trains are being covered, we have the pneumatic ones. Did you read my comment, or am I just exgremely lucky?
Ptomac electric and power had one at a coal fired plant in northern VA. It was used to shunt coal cars in and out of the plant, and was replenished from the huge boilers of the plant. They did this because a steamer with fire ran the risk of setting fire to the coal piles inside the plant.
I had heard about these compressed air locomotives, but I didn't know they were used so much! I imagine they would be quite handy in the subway tunnels of New York back in the day!
Lots of chemical plants used fireless loco's in their plants. When you have lots of steam avialble for production reasons it makes sense. f.e.the last ones were retired at Shell in the 90's! Only when battery powered loco's were reliable/safe (explosion safe) enough they were replaced.
A little superficial. Would have appreciated if talked about the systematic difference between locomotives that use hot (overheated) water that is kept from boiling by the pressure in the tank and thus take benefit from immense growth in volume when this water gets into steam on the one hand and the locomotives that just use the energy stored in pressurizing a gasious medium (as air or pressurized steam). And by the way, most of the shown locomotives shown still require steam, but are just fireless as they do not carry around the fire with them.
Fun fact. Ljubljana Power Station still uses one daily for shunting coal cars around its yard. The little LBV 04. has been running since 1965. It uses steam created in the power station and can work for 8 hours on a single fill.
When I was a kid there was a museum of transportation called "Pate's Museum of Transportation" that actually had one of these next to a customized private rail car I don't know whatever happened to it it disappeared about a year or 2 before the museum closed!!! 🤠👍
This video needs some clear statements. Yes their are compressed air engines- no steam involved, just add compressed air to the tank. Open the throttles and compressed air will go to the cylinders and push the pistons. Much more common were fireless steam engines. These ARE steam engines, but their tanks are filled with high temperature, high pressure liquid WATER. When the throttle is opened the pressure in the tank decreases a bit and the high temperature water begins to boil, producing steam that goes to the cylinders and provides power. Fun facts : at the normal sea level pressure of 15 psi water, will boil and turn into steam at 212 F. But water at 430 F in a pressure vessel will boil and turn into steam at 375 psi, more than enough to drive a locomotive. When the water temperature gets down to 354 F the available steam pressure will be about 150 psi, still enough to provide useful power. The limit is when the water runs out OR the temperature gets below 212 F.
The boots factory in Nottinghamshire had one to shunt there wagons, I found that it was still intact and is held at a Heritage railway in Nottingham too I went to see it, it’s in a mess but it’s interesting to look at
I'm not sure why you say that compressed air won't work when you show at least 2 compressed air locomotives in the presentation! These were a catalog item for a number of builders including Porter and were typically used in mines.
The first time I heard the phrase 'fireless locomotive' was in a fantasy story about a dragon. The tale was greatly detailed, and I later found out the author had an interest in engineering... I had no idea this was an actual invention! :D
Fantasy about dragons and there are locomotives? I bet it was "No time for a dragon", can't think about any other fantasy book with dragons and steam trains.
Yeah, when London subway was built, originally there were real steam locomotives but it quickly became obvious that fuming engine in tunnel can choke to death not only itself but also all the passengers and the crew.
The Great Northern railway ran two , ‘teakettles’, as they were nicknamed at the tie treatment plant a Somers, Montana. They have been given to a museum and one was displayed near West Glacier,Montana.
seems a lot of people are missing the fact that these predominately run on steam and not on compressed air. water has a high latent heat. possibly the highest of all. it stores all the heat pumped into it. they hooked it up to a big boiler, and just started blowing steam into it until the water was the same temperature as in the boiler. unhook, and the thing ran off until the water was too cold to steam effectively, or it ran out... very popular as shunting engines with short trips in one place... compressed air suffers from losing all the heat of compression and requiring external heat from teh surrounds to get full expansion.
A big warehouse near me uses a small shunter that probably runs on compressed air. I have never seen it in action but it is not much more than two axles and some cylindrical tanks.
I once helped a guy with taking his steam tractor to a show. it had a water issue at the time so couldnt be fired up so we filled it with air. It was just enough to get it on the trailer and then off and right to its spot inside
Intresting…but how did they keep the super heated water hot. Seems to me that in about 15 minutes the water in the tank would cool down and there would be no pressure.. Thus no energy to move the engine
fireless locomotives can be recognized by having a large vessel. The cylinders are also extra large to get by with low pressure. The chimney and the coal bunker are missing.
Humidity could be a problem underground. Every liter of water in the tank will end up condensed on the walls somewhere. But that's a ~sunk~ cost if you already have water ingress problems.
There are two fireless locos looking unloved at the south end the West Coast Trains yard at Carnforth, Cumbria, which can be glimpsed from trains passing on the West Coast Main Line
I wonder if there ever were attempts to create a steam turbine train. Steam turbine engines were used on ships around the turn of the 20th century so surely the idea had come up. Steam turbines have a continues flow so they don't need pistons or valves to regulate the steam as it just flows from the high pressure of the boiler to the low pressure of the outside. The only big valves involved are to regulate the amount of steam that goes in. Though they do rotate at a very high speed which means you need gearing to slow the RPM but ships managed that just fine and even with the heavy gearing they still had a better power to weight ratio than piston engines.
There's a load of these at the Carnforth West Coast Railways depot. I'm not sure whether they're waiting restoration though. They look pretty dilapidated.
1:38 This sounds stupid, but I'm from Louisiana and you pronounce New Orleans as “New or-lins” or “new or-lee-yuns," it may sound weird, but it is pronounced that way. Just remember for next time!
The titel and some of the explanation in the video is confusing. The main type of fireless locomotive still requires steam, and a steam engine can run on pressurised air. The fireless locomotives can be divided in two main groups, those which use steam and those which use air. Usually the first group is meant when talking about a fireless locomotive In the fireless steam engine superheated water is held under pressure in a vessel. There is a steam space above the water. By taking steam from this space the pressure in the steam space will drop and more steam will be formed as a result until the pressure is restored. The superheated water in the fireless steam engine expands 1800 times when evaporating into steam, so there is a lot of energy in that water. As temperature of the remaining water will drop as the evaporation takes energy from it the resulting steam pressure will also drop over time, so at a certain point the useable steam pressure will get too low before all the water is used, not unlike a normal steam locomotive when you stop shovelling coal on the fire. This means that not all the water in the barrel can be used before topping up is needed. But this type of fireless locomotive still has a relatively large range compared to the other group, the pneumatic locomotive. And yes, a pneumatic locomotive works with the same system of cylinders and motion gear as a steam engine, the cylinders have ribs to take heat from the surroundings as the air in the cylinder cools down when it expands. For this reason the air source must deliver dried air as otherwise water can condensate and cause water lock in the cylinders. Many small long cylinders hold the pressurised air. But this air under pressure stays in gas form, and this means when half of the air is used, the pressure will have dropped to half in the holding cylinders as well. So they need topping up very regularly, and were mainly used on underground mining railways where a source of steam is not available but pressurised air is as most machinery there works on air. This because air as a power source is safe to use in an environment with explosive gasses such as a coal mine and can be transported long distances trough pipelines unlike steam which would cool down too much. Also steam would create an unbearable humidity in the already hot tunnels and the emitted steam can impair visibility.
WOOOOAH! Steam engine with no fire
There is one at the dunaskin Heratige centre that is operating but they may be closed soon
but.. but you said steam engines with no steam...
There are one that did exchanges with other mainline trains that gots it's power from a steam power plant that was a pressurized steam locomotive within a firebox in the US I don't know if it survived diesels taking the steam locomotives place in a railroad museum or not, I've only seen one on my 5 pack DVD set called Railway Journey's the Vanishing Age of Steam
Don't forget soda locomotives. Soda locomotives were a variant of fireless locomotives, in which steam was raised in a boiler, expanded through cylinders in the usual way, and then condensed in a tank of caustic soda that surrounded the boiler. Dissolving water in caustic soda liberated heat, which generated more steam from the boiler, until the caustic soda became too dilute to release heat at a useful temperature.
@@KibuFox I never heard about any locomotive that runs on soda
Fireless locomotives are some of my favourite little quirks of engineering! Especially the fact that they required specialised radiator fins on the pistons to prevent them from freezing solid due to the temperature drop caused by rapidly expanding air, and the truly bizarre looking ones that originated from the realisation that lots of tiny storage cylinders could allow drastically higher pressures- and resultingly, ranges- than a single big one.
This needs a long video, but the train guy is about the short format.
You are talking about compressed air locomotives, not fireless.
Fireless is built just like a normal steam locomotive minus the firebox.
look at it the other way. the air has two choices when the pressure is reduced. to absorb heat, and expand. or sit there and stay at the same volume with no temperature change.
the fins arent there to stop it from freezing, theyre there to maximise the amount of atmospheric heat that can be dumped into the air so it CAN expand...
and therein lies the soul of every engine... supplying heat to make things expand.
the same era that fireless locos and compressed air locos were in common use, so were things like "air re-heaters", to get compressed air lines up to a temperature where the air could expand fully, release more energy and do more work, without tools freezing up...
cold tools are actually less powerful than hot tools. the air doesnt expand fully. the pressure isnt maintained, or, you use more air to maintain a given pressure.
easy experiment, run a die grinder or other air tool with the air line coiled up in a bucket of boiling water... you will be surprised.
"lots of tiny storage cylinders could allow drastically higher pressures"
Why is that the case?
@@seneca983 smaller chambers with the same thickness can withstand higher pressures than larger ones- similar to how a watertube boiler can achieve much higher pressures than a fire tube one. A smaller pressure vessel has proportionally thicker walls + higher strength, so a lot of compressed air locomotives would use many many small tanks with diameters of just a few inches, each with unbelievable pressures, allowing a net increase on stored air and resultantly range
Another interesting fireless steam locomotive were the Swiss steam engines that used electric overhead wires to power a resistive heater element to heat steam. Because there was a coal shortage in Switzerland during WWII, but they had enough hydro power.
I believe ToT made a video on those sometime last year.
They were regular steam engines converted as an emergency to electric heating.
There was a severe shortage of electric engines and lack of coal.
It was inefficient but it did the work for that time.
After WW2 they were coverted back to coal heating
@@Hybris51129i believe you are correct
These were class E 3/3. They kept the firebox as well, so they were actually dual-mode locomotives.
those were the worlds only electric-steam locomotives
Back in 1961 I was taken on a tour of our local power station where I was shown the two fireless locos and the railway line connection to the main line coal yard a half mile away. I was invited back the next week and spent the greater part of the day on the footplate and then driving one of the locos, collecting coal wagons and returning the empties. It was bliss and I have never forgotten it. I was 13 at the time.
Fireless engines always have their own charm. I mean their boilers are so fat and bulky it’s comedic!
They aren't really boilers, more like a giant thermos bottle that retains heat.
I bet they were like condoms to use. None of the fun and all of the disappointment.
Hey >:( We don't body shame here.
Guess these tank engines weren’t such a “blown up” waste after all. In all seriousness they do look like a tanker disguised as a steam engine and a more reliable one at that
They were also used in places where open flame could be an explosion risk. I saw one of them at the old Gretna munitions factory.
The one used at Eastriggs (not actually Gretna) explosives factory was powered by compressed air. You can still see it (unrestored) at The Devil's Porridge Museum. (The Devil's Porridge was the name given to the cordite, a mixture of guncotton and nitroglycerin, made there.)
All mine machinery has been compressed air since early days, just plain safe.
I used to live near one of the main european ammunition depots, where fireless locomotives could regularly be seen crossing the public road. I moved away in 2000, but I assume they may still be in use.
@@seeker1015 Compressed air locomotives were used in the mining industry due to air quality and exposition risk issues. They often used the roof as a radiator to pull in heat. Isothermal compression could in theory be nearly 100% efficient by insulating the compressed air storage and not cooling the air.
Two additions.
Some fireless engines used caustic soda dissolution to produce extra heat. They were more effective than simple fireless engine but aggressive compounds provoked corrosion and could cause serious burns.
The earliest russian pneumatic locomotives was "Dukhokhod" (it can be translated as "pneumomotive") built by Baranovsky in Saint-Petersburg in 1861. Although it had several progressive engineering solutions it was retired soon as the maintenance was too difficult.
Caustic soda sounds like a really bad and dangerous thing to use for sure to generate extra heat. Even if the cylinders and piping ect were made from corrosion resistamt materials, the way steam engines in general spray steam and water at high pressure from the cylinders while they are operating you would have corrosive caustic flying everywhere. All over the loco, on the rails, on nearby standing people and also probably the train driver, all over the ground ect.
@@johnpekkala6941 It was a closed cycle.
@@seeker1015 Until it pops. O^O
Caustic soda can be very dangerous, I'm glad they don't use that any more.
Don't worry, be happy. Some is puting billions to use amonia as a fuel XD
Greetings from America! I live in St. Louis, Missouri, close to the National Museum of Transportation at 2933 Barrett Station Road. There are at least two "Fireless Locomotives" there on display. One is the 0-4-0 switcher "National Cash Register #7 Locomotive," AKA "The South Park," (no, really,) built in 1910. The other is the 0-6-0 switcher "Union Electric Locomotive #2," built in 1940, with its famous "Smiley Face" painted on the front. Both were used in industrial situations where a firebox would have been dangerous, but where plenty of superheated water was on tap.
Thanks for sharing this with us!
440th (4-4-0?) Like.
4-4-0? How "American" of you...!
I flew there once, awesome place. They also have a GM Aerotrain (which looks way less cool in person that it did on the cover of that "Trains" book I read back in the 60s; those single axle coaches that CLEARLY identify as a bus are a joke - like a British Rail "Pacer" but without the style and comfort; but its still of historic interest) and a Chrysler Turbine car.
Carillon Historic Park in Dayton OH which is heavy-ish on train stuff (plus, oddly, a wild Bald Eagle nest), has 2 fireless locomotives. One is (thus far) a wreck and only with difficulty distinguishable from a mound of iron oxide but also the "Rubicon" which is fully restored for static display.
ua-cam.com/video/i9hE5UIgrqY/v-deo.html
@@natehill8069 Well, we Yanks are quite fond of that wheel arrangement . . . .
The Aerotrain and the Chrysler Turbine Car are some of my favorite exhibits. But it's the iconic 4-8-8-4 Union Pacific Big Boy that always held my personal fascination. It's almost (or was, anyway,) a rite of passage for a boy to ring the bell on the #4006 Big Boy at least once.
0:00 "When you really think about it, all you need to run a steam locomotive is a lot of pressure"
Me: Would peer pressure work?
How about parental pressure?
"Why are you still here? Get going or you will never be useful engine like Thomas or have your own express line like Gordon!"
Or my blood pressure but there'd be way too much wheel slip
Definitely.
@@thelaborpeasant lol
You're here, and just used dialogue format.
Gotta figure out how to harness it, and you'll be golden.
They ran one of those things in the local steel plant , had charging stations all around the yard . The steel plant has plenty of steam available
There’s a compressed-air engine at the Toronto rail museum, it’s so tiny I can’t see anyone actually using the cab unless they had a very short stool to sit on, but a cab it has!
If I recall correctly it was used at a flour mill, not somewhere you want a fire hazard.
I have read about their use in mines also. Very small and compact
I actually work at said museum and can fill you in on some details.
The cab may look tiny from the outside, but having actually been in the thing it's not as cramped as it looks, the floor is surprisingly deep due to a lack of trailing wheels.
The engine was used at a cordage plant in Welland Ontario, it produced things like baler twine and fishing nets, both of which are extremely flammable, which is why fireless locomotives proved useful.
They used it right up until the late 50s when it was replaced by forklifts.
@@wilfstor3078 Neat to know! Thanks!
Fireless steam locomotives do run on steam but use steam from stationary boilers for example in chemical plants where any locomotive producing even only sparks like Diesels or Electrics would be too much of a hazard . Fireless locos store their steam in pressure vessels carried in the same place as the boiler with its firebox on a conventional steam loco. What they don't have at first glance is a smoke box with its smoke stack😮. Most photos shown here however are from conventional locomotives or from tram locos which have a conventional boiler but hiding under a tram like body .
So please get the basic facts straight Klaus
I saw it too I even got a photo of it.
I think i can say this is basically "battery locomotives" back in the early days of railway
Except they worked better.
Here in Slovenia, we have a standard gauge fireless steam locomotive LBV-04, still in use at the thermal cogeneration (TETOL) in Moste, eastern part of Ljubljana and I just recently found out as well! Besides its the only steam locomotive in regular service in our country.
Dinky, a small American fireless engine, still exists on display near the beaches of Harbor Beach, MI, right next to the plant (a mine, prior) it served. Pretty cool little guy, with a nice board nearby explaining the area's former railroading past.
Fun fact: the tram car shown from 1:50 (with lettering BAERENGRABEN 5 BAHNHOF FRIEDHOF) is not powered by steam but by compressed air. It ran in the Swiss city of Bern, was built locally in 1890, retired and scrapped in 1901
Tom Stanton needs to make this into an O-gauge toy train.
It can run on coke and mentos
Dude is obsessed with the pointless
Please do not call them "toys". It's model engineering or engineering in miniature😀
I have seen a couple of Fireless steam locomotives at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, which are Pennsylvania Power & Light Co. 4094 (The largest Fireless steam locomotive in the world, and was later became basis for Streamlined version of Thomas the Tank Engine in the Great Rave 2016), and Bethlehem Steel No. 111.
A Fireless locomotive is flash-proof I believe. Unless you count the friction of the flanges against the rails on tight corners.
If you have a massive source of steam on-site they would make sense even today.
One was retained for a long time at Glaxo Chemicals in Ulverston UK as late as 1992.
YES! I was hoping you'd talk about these engines every since I first heard about them. Thank you.
Ah yes, the locomotives that looks like a toilet paper tube on a flatbed. Actually very unique.
I had no idea these quirky little machines existed, let alone be useful in so many situations! I absolutely love this channel! (btw, what's the name of the music in the beckground? I swear I've heard it in a Nintendo game before)
Upside Dizzy Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy!
the ones in the dayton caroline museum are interesting old examples that once saved the city after it flooded since they were capable of operating in the flood waters and were so massively heavy they kept traction. one of the interesting things is they actually kept boiling water as they were mostly filled with water then blasted with superheated steam until they reached the peak temperature
Flywheel locos next please. A local colliery here in the UK trialed one on short branch lines.
It feels weird commenting on a Train of Thought video less than an hour after it’s uploaded as I’m usually in class when they come out, but today I’m doing my leaving certificate and am currently on my break.
Good lad. Good luck with your exam and don't get too locked when finished 😅
@@maltipoomadness8807 thanks for that.
These are my favorite type os locomomtives. I like these little guys so much.
Man, I asked you for trains on logs and pneumo-trains back when you asked for ideas. Now that the log trains are being covered, we have the pneumatic ones. Did you read my comment, or am I just exgremely lucky?
Ah goody! I’d been hoping you’d cover this topic at some point
in Indonesia, the fireless locomotive is at the Semboro sugar factory, unfortunately the locomotive is no longer operating
Ptomac electric and power had one at a coal fired plant in northern VA. It was used to shunt coal cars in and out of the plant, and was replenished from the huge boilers of the plant. They did this because a steamer with fire ran the risk of setting fire to the coal piles inside the plant.
*I NEVER KNEWS* these were a thing - thank you
Props for the Mario Galaxy track at the end!
I had heard about these compressed air locomotives, but I didn't know they were used so much! I imagine they would be quite handy in the subway tunnels of New York back in the day!
Considering that bus brakes are air actuated, they probably wooshed, honked, and whistled a lot!
Lots of chemical plants used fireless loco's in their plants.
When you have lots of steam avialble for production reasons it makes sense.
f.e.the last ones were retired at Shell in the 90's!
Only when battery powered loco's were reliable/safe (explosion safe) enough they were replaced.
Oh no, that isn't smoke. It's steam, from the steamed trams we're having. MMM, steamed trams!
My grandfather owned one of those his brothers and him owned a asphalt plant in the early 40s and they used it to interchange with the big railroad
The mines in Belgium in Limburg used to use fireless engines for shunting duties, 1 still exists however it's not in usable state
A little superficial. Would have appreciated if talked about the systematic difference between locomotives that use hot (overheated) water that is kept from boiling by the pressure in the tank and thus take benefit from immense growth in volume when this water gets into steam on the one hand and the locomotives that just use the energy stored in pressurizing a gasious medium (as air or pressurized steam). And by the way, most of the shown locomotives shown still require steam, but are just fireless as they do not carry around the fire with them.
In Germany those engines are still in service today! 😃
Fun fact. Ljubljana Power Station still uses one daily for shunting coal cars around its yard. The little LBV 04. has been running since 1965. It uses steam created in the power station and can work for 8 hours on a single fill.
some of these in germany still operate and theres lots of existing ones in england including multiple at the SKLR
When I was a kid there was a museum of transportation called "Pate's Museum of Transportation" that actually had one of these next to a customized private rail car I don't know whatever happened to it it disappeared about a year or 2 before the museum closed!!! 🤠👍
This video needs some clear statements. Yes their are compressed air engines- no steam involved, just add compressed air to the tank. Open the throttles and compressed air will go to the cylinders and push the pistons. Much more common were fireless steam engines. These ARE steam engines, but their tanks are filled with high temperature, high pressure liquid WATER. When the throttle is opened the pressure in the tank decreases a bit and the high temperature water begins to boil, producing steam that goes to the cylinders and provides power. Fun facts : at the normal sea level pressure of 15 psi water, will boil and turn into steam at 212 F. But water at 430 F in a pressure vessel will boil and turn into steam at 375 psi, more than enough to drive a locomotive. When the water temperature gets down to 354 F the available steam pressure will be about 150 psi, still enough to provide useful power. The limit is when the water runs out OR the temperature gets below 212 F.
Thanks for sharing 👍
I live in the netherlands and there's a museum not far from where I live which has a fireless steamer which is owned by a private entity, really cool!
I saw one in Toronto when i was seven and thought it was a tank engine
Many locomotives used in mines here in western Canada used compressed air until they were replaced by electric ones.
The boots factory in Nottinghamshire had one to shunt there wagons, I found that it was still intact and is held at a Heritage railway in Nottingham too I went to see it, it’s in a mess but it’s interesting to look at
Interesting how they're still used today for shunting. They're interesting engines too
I'm not sure why you say that compressed air won't work when you show at least 2 compressed air locomotives in the presentation! These were a catalog item for a number of builders including Porter and were typically used in mines.
I learned something new today.
The Toronto Railway Museum has one that ran on compressed air for use in a factory that made flammable products.
The first time I heard the phrase 'fireless locomotive' was in a fantasy story about a dragon.
The tale was greatly detailed, and I later found out the author had an interest in engineering... I had no idea this was an actual invention! :D
Fantasy about dragons and there are locomotives? I bet it was "No time for a dragon", can't think about any other fantasy book with dragons and steam trains.
@@quint3ssent1a I'll have to check that out! Thanks! :3
OMG, they're so cute!
That is absolutely fire!
Yeah, when London subway was built, originally there were real steam locomotives but it quickly became obvious that fuming engine in tunnel can choke to death not only itself but also all the passengers and the crew.
The Great Northern railway ran two , ‘teakettles’, as they were nicknamed at the tie treatment plant a Somers, Montana. They have been given to a museum and one was displayed near West Glacier,Montana.
We have a preserved fireless locomotive in Norway. It’s was given the name “PAAL”.
There is an awesome series of videos by Tom Stanton of him creating a compressed air powered engine, it runs into many of the same issues.
Indeed dude is obsessed with the totally pointless.
This is great and more facts about these locos the more you know
seems a lot of people are missing the fact that these predominately run on steam and not on compressed air.
water has a high latent heat. possibly the highest of all. it stores all the heat pumped into it.
they hooked it up to a big boiler, and just started blowing steam into it until the water was the same temperature as in the boiler.
unhook, and the thing ran off until the water was too cold to steam effectively, or it ran out...
very popular as shunting engines with short trips in one place...
compressed air suffers from losing all the heat of compression and requiring external heat from teh surrounds to get full expansion.
A big warehouse near me uses a small shunter that probably runs on compressed air. I have never seen it in action but it is not much more than two axles and some cylindrical tanks.
I remember them in Gravesend working out of the Bowater paper mill, they were bright green I recall.
For some reason theres a load of these rusting at Carnforth Steam Town.
This is brilliant!
The compresed air engine are still built and use today for the mining industry
I once helped a guy with taking his steam tractor to a show. it had a water issue at the time so couldnt be fired up so we filled it with air. It was just enough to get it on the trailer and then off and right to its spot inside
Excellent!
I thought I'd seen one of these before! There is one at the Sittingbourne and Kemsley Light Railway in Kent on static display
Fascinating
Neat. Wonder if i can find one in HO scale
Now do the diesel-pneumatic locomotives, like the V3201!
Steam Battery locos? being used for sensible applications? maybe those huge Battery Electric prime mover conversions should take some notes...
Took a while but thanks!
Please, please change the title - fireless locomotives DO require steam - it's coal they don't require!
Thank you
Intresting…but how did they keep the super heated water hot. Seems to me that in about 15 minutes the water in the tank would cool down and there would be no pressure.. Thus no energy to move the engine
fireless locomotives can be recognized by having a large vessel. The cylinders are also extra large to get by with low pressure. The chimney and the coal bunker are missing.
I was waiting on these
I wish there was video of these in use today
These engines are odd..but very intresting
Humidity could be a problem underground. Every liter of water in the tank will end up condensed on the walls somewhere. But that's a ~sunk~ cost if you already have water ingress problems.
You could absolutely run a steam train off my damn blood pressure 😅
Fun fact: an atomic, if built, would still be a steam engine
There are two fireless locos looking unloved at the south end the West Coast Trains yard at Carnforth, Cumbria, which can be glimpsed from trains passing on the West Coast Main Line
They were still steam engines with a large tank full of compressed steam.
Used around dangerous places such as munitions factories.
I wonder if there ever were attempts to create a steam turbine train. Steam turbine engines were used on ships around the turn of the 20th century so surely the idea had come up. Steam turbines have a continues flow so they don't need pistons or valves to regulate the steam as it just flows from the high pressure of the boiler to the low pressure of the outside. The only big valves involved are to regulate the amount of steam that goes in. Though they do rotate at a very high speed which means you need gearing to slow the RPM but ships managed that just fine and even with the heavy gearing they still had a better power to weight ratio than piston engines.
There's a load of these at the Carnforth West Coast Railways depot. I'm not sure whether they're waiting restoration though. They look pretty dilapidated.
I wonder if they ever did ships or ferries like this.
1:38 This sounds stupid, but I'm from Louisiana and you pronounce New Orleans as “New or-lins” or “new or-lee-yuns," it may sound weird, but it is pronounced that way. Just remember for next time!
They still use steam. Just no fire. Ideal for gas works etc.
Your voice is so calming.
I saw video of one in Germany still running in the past few years. I wonder if it's still there?
The titel and some of the explanation in the video is confusing. The main type of fireless locomotive still requires steam, and a steam engine can run on pressurised air.
The fireless locomotives can be divided in two main groups, those which use steam and those which use air. Usually the first group is meant when talking about a fireless locomotive
In the fireless steam engine superheated water is held under pressure in a vessel. There is a steam space above the water.
By taking steam from this space the pressure in the steam space will drop and more steam will be formed as a result until the pressure is restored.
The superheated water in the fireless steam engine expands 1800 times when evaporating into steam, so there is a lot of energy in that water.
As temperature of the remaining water will drop as the evaporation takes energy from it the resulting steam pressure will also drop over time, so at a certain point the useable steam pressure will get too low before all the water is used, not unlike a normal steam locomotive when you stop shovelling coal on the fire.
This means that not all the water in the barrel can be used before topping up is needed.
But this type of fireless locomotive still has a relatively large range compared to the other group, the pneumatic locomotive.
And yes, a pneumatic locomotive works with the same system of cylinders and motion gear as a steam engine, the cylinders have ribs to take heat from the surroundings as the air in the cylinder cools down when it expands. For this reason the air source must deliver dried air as otherwise water can condensate and cause water lock in the cylinders.
Many small long cylinders hold the pressurised air. But this air under pressure stays in gas form, and this means when half of the air is used, the pressure will have dropped to half in the holding cylinders as well.
So they need topping up very regularly, and were mainly used on underground mining railways where a source of steam is not available but pressurised air is as most machinery there works on air.
This because air as a power source is safe to use in an environment with explosive gasses such as a coal mine and can be transported long distances trough pipelines unlike steam which would cool down too much. Also steam would create an unbearable humidity in the already hot tunnels and the emitted steam can impair visibility.
I wonder if any of these survived into preservation, aside from the ones mentioned to still be in use.
They need steam but not fire they aren’t steamless
_In Mannheim's technical museum there is a locomotive powered by compressed air _*_. , ,_*
I wonder about the conversion of some heritage steam locos, which might solve the coal supply problem... (refuel at stations?)
Where do you get your music for the videos?