FuelX Pro vs. FuelX Lite: Which One is Right for You?
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- FuelX Lite or FuelX Pro - which do you choose?
Is your Duke running rough at low revs? Modified your bike and worried you might damage the engine? FuelX Lite is an autotune, fit and forget product that will work for you at a great price.
Or for the racing guys who run fixed maps, do you have issues with the stock map overriding your map in the closed loop? FuelX Pro allows you to change the AFR at the touch of a button.
FuelX Lite and FuelX Pro are both easy to install and run an autotune to keep your AFRs where they belong.
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27 years old here and I am clueless on ECU’s. Been riding carb since I was 15, and just got my first EFI bike, so this video helped a lot
Great stuff, well done.
In short this is like adding the fuel tuning screw/adjuster of old carburettor system to the digital fuel injection system. in carburettor you adjust the fuel ratio by adjusting the screw based on riding condition and in fuel X pro you select the 10 preset fuel ratio with a little bit of intelligence added. It's not a piggy back ECU as people might confuse it with powertronic or similar ecu. If you are a multi terrain rider or adventure traveller who goes through deep valleys and high mountains I recommend fuelX or similar fuel ratio adjusting device even if you don't have any performance modes because you can alter fuel ratio depending on air pressure variations of different altitude.. low fuel for high altitude where air is thin and high for low altitude where air is dense :)
In effect yes. With the ECU running the fuelling according to the map, sometimes a manual adjustment to the map is needed. Where people make a mistake with the Pro is using it as a permanent adjustment rather than as a temporary fix to suit a temporary change in conditions such as altitude.
I just bought a Fuel X lite. I don't have any experience with tuning so figured it was my best choice. I only plan on doing an exhaust and air box lid mod.
Good choice!
Has Fuel X lite improved the low-end torque and reduced gearshifts in city traffic?
What difference did you find aftet the light installation. I am getting mine in 2 days
@@Thematvirtus Its hard to tell because I installed it while I did the exhaust and air box lid
@@MotoMiriusplease help
I have a duke 790 2019 model
With Akra slip on (baffle removed) with stock air filter
I am happy with the performance but I live in india & extreme heat often over heats the bike in heavy traffic situations.
Rain mode + engine ice coolant helps but I want to make the bike run cooler
Will the fuel x lite be a good choice ?
& will it cause any errors etc on the TFT dash .
I will be highly obliged for your help and support.
Thanks & regards
Hi @moto mirius, Great Videos mate I'm learning a lot about my new bike! I'm trying to understand the FuelX variants. At the end of the day the O2 sensor, which the FuelX is pretending to be, is telling the ECU how much oxygen is in the exhaust gas - that's all! The ECU can then use this to adjust the amount of fuel, ignition timing etc. to either decrease the oxygen to make the engine run richer or increase the oxygen to make the engine run leaner. The point is, that the ECU decides based on a number of factors one of which is the exhaust O2 level. This means that the FuelX must be always trying to achieve a certain oxygen level - nothing more. For its auto-tune it must vary what it is telling the ECU whilst monitoring the actual O2 sensor so it can learn to predict what it must tell the ECU in order to achieve the desired O2 level - since it has no other data it can't do much more! The Lite version must have a fixed desired O2 level which is used to provide smoother throttle response at slow speed, eliminate jerkyness, run cooler etc. For the Pro version it seems that the user can effectively increase/decrease the desired O2 level to be richer or leaner (probably within a very narrow band of adjustment). Given that both the Lite and Pro claim to provide the same benefits and automatically adjust for exhaust, air box and potentially other modifications, there doesn't seem to much reason to choose the Pro. They are both trying to fool the ECU to achieve a particular O2 level which equates to a particular fuel/air ratio but the Pro version lets the user tweek the value sent to the ECU (thus tweek the actual O2 level). Assuming the manufacturer only lets the user tweek the Pro within 'safe' limits (why wouldn't they?), it comes down to: if you're happy with the engine response provided by the Lite - great, if you're not then you 'might' find a setting you like with the Pro. Since you won't know before you buy the Pro seems like the obvious choice. I wish I could make my mind up!!!!🤔
Yes.... Both versions only work with the lambda sensor - so it has to then react in a way which will give a predictable result from the stock ECU. More advanced autotune products such as the RapidBike Evo work with more sensors so will give a cleaner result.
The one point I would correct you on is with the Pro. Race Dynamics (clue is in 'Race') make products designed for the Racing market, they assume a level of technical expertise and assume you have the capability and expertise to make your own decisions. They make NO claim that the Pro will be safe for an inexperienced amateur user and quite the opposite - why would they? It would restrict the abilities of the users technical team who would be looking to produce a very specific result in a very specific environment. The Pro is designed so that race teams can apply a quick fix to the maps, sometimes mid race - let's say there is a temperature drop or it's more or less humid than the map was designed for. The Lite is their first and only product designed for the road rider who doesn't have an engineering team backup.
My advice - unless you have the capabilities to understand what adjustments you need and the inherent risks of so doing then you shouldn't be using the Pro. The Lite is designed to provide a safe level of fuelling for all levels of bike modification for the amateur/ road rider. It isn't about finding a setting you like with the Pro. A hint - a bike will produce it's maximum power when the engine is running too lean. If this is the setting you 'find' the result will be a destroyed engine (been there, done that, it's very expensive).
@@MotoMirius Hi David, I fitted a FuelX Lite to my 2021 390 Duke when everything was stock and to be honest I didn't feel much difference from stock. Throttle response at low revs was a bit smoother, the engine was less "chuggy" below 4000 rpm (e.g. before it was hunting a bit when doing say 30mph in 4th gear whereas this was 'just' possible with the FuelX), no real noticeable difference at high revs/full throttle. I then fitted an Ixil Etrem RB exhaust slip on - without the large easily removable DB killer but retaining the smaller spot welded one. I also retained the standard headers and presilencer. Now throttle response at low revs is much smoother and low end torque seems to have increased. In fact the throttle response through the whole rev range seems to have smoothed out but this does seem to have taken away some of the stock 'crispness' for want of a better description. Also I feel like the powerband feeling between 4000-7000 rpm is more gentle and not so arm wrenching. In a way the 'smoothness' has taken away some of the more aggressive character of the engine. It's hard to tell if its any faster/slower - just smoother. I was intending to do airbox mods too but I think I'll not bother - instead I was thinking of taking off the FuelX to regain some of the lost 'crisp' character of the stock bike or maybe remove/fit both the DB killers in the new exhaust. In standard form the throttle responds very precisely to rider input giving a very 'crips' feel which can show itself as 'jerkiness' if your not careful with the throttle and ride too low rpm, and I feel like I have lost this whilst gaining 'smoothness' - you might even call it 'more fluffy'. Do you think I could safely run an end can without the FuelX? Keep up the good work! Cheers Brian
@@brizi2003 Nice review Brian. KTM note that you can fit the Arkrapovic slip on with no changes needed. So, it will depend on how much of a change you are making comparing to the Akra with baffle retained as well as if you live somewhere such as high up where the fuelling will be altered anyway. You can certainly expect the Lite to take a little while to adapt to your modifications so you may see it improve with more riding. Low revs are inherently jerky given the engine design and made worse by the fuelling, so some smoothness and less crispness at low revs isn't surprising if the fuelling element is being taken out.
@@MotoMirius Hi David, I'll give a little longer before I change it again. I'm in agreement, I think the stock ECU should be able to adjust the fuelling with just an end can fitted and it will be just as lean as it was when stock. As I live near the north east coast of England altitude is not really an issue! Just rain and fog today!! No doubt youre in your workshop brewing up another great video! Cheers Brian
I found changing the spark plug from a flat electrode to a pin electrode made a significant change to the low rev range..much smoother.
Hi Mirius ! Could you light up my candle ?
I've watched several times your videos on this subject, went to the RC390 forum to get more info.
Congratulations on all the great content you put out for the 390 community, it's a blessing!
I'm now a bit confused on what to get.
My bike : MY22 Duke 390
As for now : full stock
Performance mod to come :
*Full line (de-cat and pre-baffle delete)
*Open airbox
Intended use of the bike :
*Lot of spirited mountain riding
*A bit of street riding
* Parking lot practice low speed, gymkhana
* Occasional track day on super moto/go-kart small track
What I want out of these upgrade :
* Lighter bike
* Bike that doesn't run lean
* Better throttle response
* A bit of power gain is good but not a priority
So now my question is :
As I do not plan to use a Dyno but not against it.
would you advise a simple Fuel X, a RBevo (or race ?) or a PT (which I understand is not optinal unless Dyno tuned).
Many Thanks !
Thanks! If you are looking for power gain then you need to be looking for a unit such as the PT and getting a proper tune on it. If more power is nice to have then the FuelX Lite or RB Evo are good choices - Race is possible but you have to be a bit more serious again - Lite and EVO are install and forget. Of course you get what you pay for - Lite is cheap but runs only one sensor, EVO is more expensive but uses more sensors so is more likely to produce better results. While it is tempting to save weight by removing the presilencer, this has been shown to reduce mid range power so I would not recommend it for your build. Good luck!
@@MotoMirius Thanks for the answer Mirius. RapidBike Evo seems to be the best fit for my case. But as I far as my understanding go, the RB Race is the same as Evo, so it has auto tune BUT it also got full map configuration (Dyno tune).
Is that correct ?
If it is, the Race would be a great tools as it can be used in autotune and if needed be useful to make a full Dyno map ?
Thanks for the tips about the presilencer !
Cheers
@@neodurden6793 Thanks. Race offers you extra tools. But if you want to use a Dyno then you need software that the Dyno operator can interface with - so if you think you will put the bike on the Dyno, first check with your Dyno of choice what software they can utilise.
Subscribed. I like how you explain, I immediately got what I came for.
Thanks. Glad it was of help.
I got the rapid bike easy (used), it was cheap and easy to fit. I guess the basic plug ins all do a similar thing, I am very happy with how smooth the bike is now after adding the RBE.
Easy is great. It was my entry level recommendation before this. Some people need to change settings, FuelX is similar in price and fully auto.
Hi Bud, Also in UK [Wales] And thinking of getting a Lower-cc Bike. I wanted to know HOW/WHY these Auto-Tune-Plug n Play systems work and you explained it very well. I;m now much MORE Confident to Buy-Try one of these ONCE i Buy my new KTM 390-Duke.
Nice informative video👍🏼
Well explained for those who might be wondering 👍🏻
Glad you think so! Hope you are keeping well!
Thank you, very helpful and very informative!
Glad it was helpful!
I installed Booster plug on my 2018 KTM 125, and it did improve the bike at low revs and also cured the stalling issue. That said it was by know means as good as I had hoped. But I was surprised to hear you wright off Booster Plug???
Boosterplug does not work on the newer bikes - and this is directly stated by Boosterplug. I agree with Boosterplug that it can work better than some full piggyback units that have poor maps fitted. But that said, it's a brute force approach, it was a good solution at the entry level but the FuelX Lite does it better at a similar price and also works on the newer bikes.
Thanks D for another great video w/ lots of info! Glad i watched bcz Im not worried about how my Bike runs at low speeds/rpm around town….i live in California …we got big freeways! …….Btw my bike runs a lot better with the stock lid vs coober hi-flo lid.
Thanks for the vid!
Cheers!
Glad to hear you are good and thanks. I didn't have any issue with the stock setup, but some seem to!
Just brought mine now thank you so much 😊 you able to show a video on how to clean the duke as I don’t want to mess up the electrical wires etc be good to know
So long as you don't use a pressure washer, you'll be fine. Thanks!
Hey David.
Long-time subscriber here from India. Keep up the great work!
I ride my stock Duke 250 on long highway trips (500-2500km trips). I would appreciate your input on a few things:
1. Will investing in FuelX improve my highway cruising experience?
2. What can I expect from FuelX? More fuel-efficiency/power? Better refinement?
Looking forward to your inputs, mate!
Hi Aditya and thanks, much appreciated
1. Not really, highway tends to be open loop so FuelX will likely be not changing anything
2. FuelX tends to add fuel so I would shy away from suggesting better fuel efficiency. More power, perhaps but lean running tends to be powerful, so we could say power without so much risk of engine damage. Many report smoother running at lower revs - since I have run an autotune device for some years, I can't comment so much. Overall much will depend on how your bike is currently setup - user experience will vary.
@@MotoMirius thanks for the super promt response, sir.
I'll do some more digging and share my findings with you, if any.
Thanks for your time.
@@MotoMirius why are you saying lean mix produce more power i think its the other way around
@@Hsp44 Very lean isn't hot because there isn't enough fuel, but just lean burns very hot, ensuring complete combustion of all the fuel. But it will also melt the inside of the engine. Maximum safe power is achieved with slightly too rich a mixture - so this is what all the textbooks will tell you to aim for. Maximum safe power is not the same as maximum power.
@@MotoMirius why there is power loss then with more air and less fuel?
Love the content. I would love to see your video with better sound quality tho.
It's a learning curve - sound volumes are at the levels recommended by the professional software that I use for the post production. So, the issue is mostly my voice, and I'm not sure I can do a lot about that. That said, it might be time to upgrade my mic if I do more of this type of recording.
Fitted FX Lite to my '17 390 a few mths back & plzd w/results... From Red LED flashing appears to be running equiv. of map no. 7
Lite doesn't have a switch - only the pro has a choice. Lite will switch to whichever is the equivalent of the Pro settings is right at that point - and will change as needed.
Informative video! Subscribed! :)
I am going to binge watch all videos on this channel :D
Awesome, thank you!
Great informative video.. Thank you 😊
Glad it was helpful!
I'm interested in adding the FuelX device to my 2021 KTM 390 Adventure, and from your video it seems to me I should be looking at the FuelX Lite. I'm under the impression that it will help my bike perform better off-road at lower rpm. The issue is that it doesn't "lug" well, it "turns on" around 6000 rpm, and this isn't ideal when riding dirt trails, often at slower speeds. I don't really care about making the bike faster, or even more powerful; a little less vibration would be nice, but the main goal is better low rpm strength. Do you think the FuelX Lite will achieve my objective?
Short answer yes. It's a KTM so the engine was never really designed to ride at slow speeds - all those videos from KTM about the bike - that is how they expect you to ride. But low speed, there is a lot of compromise with the fuelling so they can meet the emissions legislation, and this the Lite helps. It still won't overcome the fact that KTM never intended you to ride slowly, and the engine design is a result of this - but at least the Lite moves you in the right direction.
Got myself the pro for my 125, plugged diag in to bike and on stock the short term trim is between -1 & -3 % so would be running very lean.
On setting 4, it makes it beleive its at 0% On 6 its about 4/5%.
My bike is 100% stock, its was just low end I needed it for. Can definitely feel an improvement with it.
That's good. Bear in mind that the Pro adjusts the whole fuel map, it is not designed as a long term fix for fuelling issues. Typically these run lean at the low end and rich at the top, so if you are increasing the fuel to fix low end lean running then you are also adding more fuel to the already rich top end and vice versa.
Excellent explanation, thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Merci au top la vidéo !
Et merci!
Hey David,
Been wanting to try fuelx & here you go with a detailed video on it. Thanks!
I watched both your videos on the same product. I want to know how this product is in terms of real life ride experience & how much better?
Thanks. Well, the issue is that it depends. Someone riding the same bike as mine in winter in Nepal or riding in the Arizona desert is going to have different map adaptations of the stock map than I do at sea level in a temperate climate in the UK. Which means that those three riders will get different experiences from using the FuelX. Bottom line is that if you don't have any issues with the running of a stock bike you don't need one, but if you are looking to mod the bike with say an airbox lid then you need something. Those with stock bikes that complain about rough running at low revs in traffic say it works well to overcome that.
@@MotoMirius Got it thanks! 👍
@@MotoMirius David, id like to know whether fuel x pro will damage or reduce my engine life span to any extend ? i want more low end torque. its too low on torque here in the hilly areas. should i just get a 14 sprocket teeth on the front or fuel x pro for my 390 adv
@@dexterax6634 I'm confused what the FuelX pro has to do with improving low end torque.
@@MotoMirius does it not improve the low end torque for your Duke 390 ? I have a 390 adventure
Thank you for this video, it is very informative. I own a Royal Enfield Himalayan Eu4 and at the moment it has the Booster plug installed and it has improved the idling stability (EU4 Himalayan's tend to have idling and slow speed issues) but it is still not very smooth on low RPM especially on low gears. It feels like it has a flat spot between 2000 - 3000 rpm with 5% - 10% throttle. I am very tempted to swap to the FuelX Lite, but I am not sure if this will eliminate the low RPM issue.
Would like to mention that I am not looking for more power, it is not the case, I just really appreciate the simplicity and comfort of this bike, I just wish it was smoother on slow speeds.
Thank you !!!
The BP is a good product, but it is a very basic unit as it just makes an adjustment to the air temperature reading - as such it is mostly a good effect but it isn't making an accurate adjustment to the fuelling - just a simple brute force adjustment. You may get a smoother result with the FuelX but I think your bike is a single cylinder and this will always be somewhat rough at low RPM - the trick is to learn not to ride so much at low RPM and instead allow the engine to rev a little more.
@@MotoMirius Thank you for responding, yes it is a single, long stroke thumper, so I understand. Thanks again !!
@@MotoMirius I have the RE Meteor 350. I just bought the FuelX lite, and will get it in a couple of months. I'm in Thailand, where it is hot and humid most of the year. But low altitude. I am wondering what to expect, because to be honest the Meteor is already pretty smooth at low revs and the throttle is very linear.
Products like FuelX and Boosterplug are not designed to improve power etc, they are designed to do what the manufacturers are not allowed to do - which is to correct the changes to fuelling necessary to meet emissions standards. I can't comment on what you could expect especially since I think the engine design is different - the small Dukes are not designed to run smooth at low revs. When people try and correct this I sometimes wonder why they chose the Duke over a bike that runs smooth at low revs. Duke is designed to optimise acceleration and engine braking. KTM engineers never intended the bike to be ridden slowly - Himalayan is I think quite different in this.@@davidcann8788
I am planning to buy the lite for my 2019 390 duke. All i want from it is to reduce the jerkiness at low revs. Initially i was drawn to the pro but now i understand that its not what i need.
Lite should be just what you need then.
Update:
So i got fuelX lite not for my 390 but for my 250. 250 is my experimental bike. Whats changed after installing the lite, like you said, it all depends on how you ride the bike. For someone who maintains a higher rev range say 7000+ this is going to be a useless investment there is no difference to the way the engine behaves. But for someone who rides at 4000 to 6000 range its a decent product anything below 4000 again, it makes no difference you are still going to feel the jerk.
Its only in the 4000 to 6000 range that you really feel like the engine is smooth and the throttle response is good even rev matching becomes a bit easy. It also makes the sound a bit bassy, it’s a small change to the sound unless you pay attention you are not going to notice it.
Would i buy one for my 390 not really i dont ride it at low revs unless there is lot of traffic congestion. I tend to keep it at 6000+ so it makes no sense to get one.
Just got my new (used) 2018 duke 390. I am still breaking it in as the original owner had only put 58 miles on the bike. I am getting a FuelX Lite. Should I wait to complete break-in period before installing? Congrats on the channel. Very informative.
Nice buy! And thanks. Yes, absolutely, finish the break in period so that the stock ECU can finish finalising its map, and preferably leave the bike stock for that period - it isn't really very long, even if it sometimes seems it. Then fit the Lite and allow it a few runs so it can adjust before you start hammering the bike.
Between the Fuel X lite and RapidBike easy do you have a preference? I know the RBE has the knob control, but final result should be the same, correct?
@@juanposada9319 The final result should be the same - but only if you choose the right setting. My recommendation is the Lite - until Dimsport get round to releasing their upgraded unit on the Duke
fuelx Lite is perfect for my stock RC390.
Is it a stock gen 2 rc 390 (2022)?
The new gen rc 390 is pretty smooth and is delightful to ride on expressways but riding it in a crowded city like Bangalore is problematic.
so i have a question 🙋♂️ , hopefully you can help, i have a rc390 2016 model currently i have full arrow exhaust decat not just a slip on , i also have ordered the grey area custom intake box along with the dna air filter also the injector. as you stated this will work with any kind of mods, my question is what to do ?order the fuel x pro ? as for the power tronic i know that is the proper way of tuning the bike but i don’t have the skills to do it, and i don’t have tunners in my area as i live in a small greek island i have to ship the bike to get tuned with a dyno and the cost is so high that is not worth it. what solutions do i have to install only the intake box and the filter and not bother with the injector or buy the fuel x and install the injector and the feul x will take care of the mods ?
Fuel X Pro also requires the same skills as the main PowerTRONIC unit - it is designed for a short term modification of a custom map - say you take a trip to somewhere with different conditions but don't want to make a custom map for that one off event - it is not autotune in the sense that many people seem to think it is. If you are just looking for automatic fuelling adjustments then the Lite is what you are looking at. However given your level of mods you might want to consider something that monitors more sensors such as the RapidBike Evo. Lite and Evo will both take care of the mods but the EVO is likely to create a better map.
@@MotoMirius really thanks for you response… you got straight answers as always.. the forums out there confuse me a lot you just given me with the right information with out any fuzz
But how i will use the fuel X here in Brazil? The Petrol has more than 28% of Ethanol. The AFR will not be the same as were you live.
The bike is designed to run with fuel of a certain standard - if you run outside of this standard then you risk engine damage that no plug in device can compensate for.
Hi, mate love your videos. My duke 390 is my first bike and all your videos are really helping me out with learning about bikes and looking after it! I am planning on installing a decat on my 390 and an air box mod. Will the fuelX Lite be okay for the mods I mentioned and any future mods ? All the best !
Great to hear and well done, thanks. Yes, the Lite will cope with that - depending what mod you intend to make on the airbox, I have a short video coming out soon on the airbox which might help.
I was told by the manufacturer the fuel x only works at low revs and does nothing for mid to high revs. If you want to change the afr at high revs you need to fit the powertronic piggy back ecu.
Low revs are the most likely to result in engine damage, which is the primary reason for fitting an entry level piggyback like this. PowerTRONIC (who knows what the new v4 will do) doesn't use the lambda sensor so it doesn't track AFR directly which is why you can use the FuelX with the PowerTRONIC.
@@MotoMirius thanks for the reply. The reason I contacted them was because I want to modify my bike but don’t want it to run lean up top as I track it. What’s your opinion mate. Will the fuel x do or should I wait and get the full ecu. Thanks again.
@@dwlee67 The 390 with stock ECU has a reputation for running rich at higher revs. It's only in the low rev range - the 'urban' rev range where the emissions controls are the strictest and where it can run lean as a result. If you are looking at the FuelX only for racing then the Lite probably isn't going to do anything for you. But to use the Pro you should be measuring your AFRs, as the Pro is just going to give you a jump up and down in AFR - I would regard it as a temporary fix where you arrive at a track and find conditions are different from how you've set up the map and you don't want to, or can't load a new map. If you are just doing an occasional track day with a stock bike then you may be OK to leave it as stock at first - but if you are modding then I'd recommend that you invest in tracking your AFRs.
@@MotoMirius thanks mate. Very helpful advice.
Well your wrong about power and AFR.
In aircraft we get max power not at peak egt or just lean of peak egt.
You get max power at rich side of peak egt.
ICE engines work that way. Rich mix makes power.
Thanks for your time.
You are correct that maximum safe power is achieved with the engine running slightly too rich. Nobody intentionally sets an engine to run slightly too lean - especially in an aerospace environment because real life is not the same as a dyno cell.
Doesn't the ECU do all of this anyways?
Yes, and no. The thing you are missing is emissions controls. What happens now with vehicles is that the manufacturers build a map which mixes air, spark and fuel to create the optimum map and use an autolearning ECU to dynamically change those three things so that the bike remains on that map regardless of environmental conditions or what aftermarket exhaust is added. Then they test the emissions that are produced which will always exceed the allowed values. Then they start to change the map so that it fits the emissions controls. One of the key controls that is added a locked limit to how much fuel can be added - because fuel is what creates the emissions.
If you modify your bike and it needs more fuel as a result and it needs more than the factory ECU is allowed to supply, well you are out of luck and so is your engine and bank account. I recommend some reading about Dieselgate where European car manufacturers were caught trying to cheat the emissions standards so that the cars they were selling were actually what their customers were expecting - and KTM is a European manufacturer which is strictly controlled by EU laws - unlike some non-EU based manufacturers who have more latitude in skirting around the intent of the laws.
good educational video... thanks for the content
Glad you liked it! Thanks
Hello , Amazing content. I was Wondering if the Fuel X lite was enough for the following mods: Mid pipe link removing the resonator ( pre silencer ) , Dna stage 2 filter cover and after market air filter inside K&N . ?
According to the Race Dynamics engineers, the Lite is capable of adjusting for all levels of mods.
Hi David, still a little confused about the autotunedness between the two versions....if you left the Pro on 3, does it behave exactly as the Lite does? Or is setting 3 just like running without the Pro at all, ie the stock ECU? After rereading the comments I’m thinking it’s the latter.
It's almost the latter. The Lite autotunes to what RD consider an optimal map. The Pro shifts the fuelling up or down, working with whatever map you are using - 3 autotunes to put in the stock level of fuel. For example if you are using say a PowerTRONIC and you've set up an optimal map for your setup on the dyno. If you then trailer your bike to a track (maybe you are in a racing series across a range of locations) but when you get there you find its hotter and higher or whatever than you expected then maybe your map needs a bit more or less fuel but you don't want to load a new map just for the race - then you use the switch on your Pro up or down and the Pro will autotune to provide that adjustment to the AFR. The key with the Pro is that RD expect you to know what adjustment you need to make, if you get it wrong then it will give too much or too little fuel - it does not autotune in the way that the Lite will always (eventually) give the right level of fuel.
Perfect! Great reply. Thanks again for your attn to detail!
When I first got my 390 I thought there might be something wrong with the ecu because it didn’t run smoothly at low rpm. Since found out it’s down to the design guys at KTM. So I don’t ride at low rpm.
Yes, that is typically my advice - if you want a smooth commuter bike that you can ride at low revs then buy a Honda. If you buy any race oriented bike, then don't be surprised if it is setup that way. Generally, the only time I'm below 4k revs when riding is when I'm stopped.
Love your work mate! Quick question from a newby: would a fuelx lite void my warranty?
Thanks. Depends on your dealer and whether the issue could be attributed to a fuelling issue. Strictly any such change could void the warranty.
@@MotoMirius thanks heaps! I will check with my dealership first then. As you suggested as well I’m running in higher revs as much as I can in the city but when I’m sneaking past the traffic jam it can be difficult at times and it becomes jerky if I don’t play with the clutch.
@@Gori4ch I would suggest that a little jerky is normal for a single at low revs, especially one that is optimised for acceleration and engine braking.
Thanks David! Very informative... I have ordered fuel X lite for my interceptor, one small question... does it improve gear shiffting? Shifting gears is little hard and it becomes worst when engine over heats
Thanks. The engine may run cooler if the fuelling is correct, but typically gear shifting is a clutch and/or gearbox issue - unless you are shifting without the clutch then the engine will be disconnected from the gears when shifting - clutch drag is a common cause for gear shifting issues and can become worse when hot as everything gets bigger and gaps get smaller.
Hi, love your videos and even though I have a Duke 125, with arrow catdelete and a slipon, sometimes it helps me a lot. And the question I have is: Is the fuelx lite for the Duke 125 compatible with the duke 390?
Im thnking about getting the fuelx lite for the 125, and maybe in the future sell my duke 125 and get the duke 390
Hi and thanks. I don't believe that it is, no. It's the price you pay for the cheaper modules.
Great video!
Brief question, after installing the FuelX should we do a first 10-15 min run on the engine idling for the ECU to recognize the change? Or just do it and go for a ride?
Just ride it. If you reset the stock ECU to default you will then force it to re-learn all of the adjustments it has already made to suit where and how you ride - at the same time the Fuel-X is also trying to adjust the fuelling.
If I want to take out the resonator , will the fuelx lite maintain my engine health and performance will not downgrade ¿
I have a 2022 KTM 390 Duke and would like to Decat, slip on and K&N air filter. Which would be the most suitable ECU for me please?
It depends what your plans are for the bike and whether you just want a basic fuelling device or something better. For simple fuelling for your changes the Lite would be a good match
Hi, do you have videos on how to do valve clearance on Duke 250/390? Thanks.
Not yet, I have some projects to clear first, but as it happens I need to check on mine, so it should be soon.
Hello David
I have a 2017 Duke 390 with an air lid and a decat pip what difference will I get between fuleX lite& rapid bike evo exclusive(by the way I use my bike as a daily commute)
Thanks for the very informative content
Hi. They are very different products. FuelX just modifies the lambda sensor input to the stock ECU. The Evo uses more sensors and builds it’s own mapping - it isn’t reliant on the stock ECU so it creates a better map.
My question is how to know which map is best suitable for the bike after changing the exhaust and air filter. They have like 10 maps how to even choose.
You have to measure it. If you don't know how to do that, and understand the process well, then I recommend using the Lite - it's why they make the Lite - because it's designed for people like you. Or you could do what some people do and buy the Pro and choose a map based on what someone on the internet told you and then wonder why your engine breaks. The Pro is designed for Pro's - race engineers, the Lite is designed for street riders.
How is this different from the booster plug? Out of interest, the lite 'seems' to do the same thing?.
Different but the same - as far as Lite goes anyway. Achieve a similar aim but Boosterplug by brute forcing it while Lite does it more dynamically. BUT, Boosterplug doesn't work on the BS6 bikes - Boosterplug are quite clear about this, so Lite fills the gap.
Hello David, thnx for another informative video. I got one more question for you: in box hi-flow air filter + decat + sc project exhaust with db killer setup on 390 bs3... Should I use piggyback/ecu remap or this one/rapid bike easy will work for me?
Thanks. With that setup a piggyback/ remap is recommended. Between Lite and Easy, I recommend Lite - Dimsport have not yet released their version of Lite for the KTM. If you are looking at optimising the power then remap or piggyback are options - but remember that mapped units/ remap are designed for a specific setup - change your mind in the future about your setup and you may need a new map for the ECU/piggyback - unless you go the autotune route.
David, I have a question. The point where i had to scratch my head was to your point, the bike runs lean when you get more power? Isn't that statement counterintuitive because power is produced is more fuel is fed and not lean, isn't it. If you can expand on that please..
It's a common question. As you know, power is generated at the optimum mix of air and fuel. Just adding fuel won't increase power - but yes, your logic is right - there is a curve where for a fixed air intake, adding fuel will add power - then power will drop back off as too much is added and the spark is unable to ignite and burn it all.
Optimum power is that peak in the curve when the mix is just slightly rich - because this protects your engine - this point is sometimes described as the maximum power point - but it's actually maximum safe power. Maximum power is actually achieved just before that when the mix is still slightly too lean so that it is able burn all the fuel present. But at this point it can also create temperatures high enough to also start melting the piston. If you watch dyno runs on your favourite UA-cam channels where they have gone to a professional tuner (not a mate, or the bloke down the road) you will see they do a max power run. And then they will set the vehicle up with a safe tune.
@@MotoMirius Perfect!
What's difference from remap stock ECU and afr correction vs fuelx lite?
From 2017, the stock ECU cannot be remapped. There are people who claim they can hack the stock ECU and remap it - but there has also been some fraud around this and you need the person remapping to do it hands on with your bike - and for them to be very skilled so it isn't something I recommend. Remapping should produce a map that is tailored to your bike and will adjust ignition as well as fuel. The Lite simply ensures that the AFR stays in a safe zone, it does not intend to make the bike perform better (but can make it better by correcting the fuelling). Remapping can make your bike faster, it can also result in destroying your engine if it is not done correctly, and should be redone if you change your bike setup. More advanced piggyback ECU's than the FuelX can also remap but there can be similar risks if it is not done correctly.
I ride a Duke 250 in India. I'm interested in FuelX Lite.
1. Will it improve low-end torque and reduce gearshifts in city traffic?
2. Will it reduce fuel efficiency?
1. Often yes
2. It depends on rider and riding conditions.
Don’t imagine that every rider will have the same experience because every rider rides differently and in different conditions all of which vary fuel efficiency.
Hi david, I'm planning to buy fuelx lite on my duke 200 and Im curious if I can get any performance boost out of it, I'm also planning changing the stock exhaust but not gonna decat it just an elbow and a canister.
FuelX won't in itself give you a power boost. What it can do is to assist with the bike being able to utilise the other power improvements that you have made but may be under utilised by the emissions controls on the stock ECU.
Is there auto mode for pro version, which can put it in a state where it behaves like lite? But if user wants to play then use pro side of things
Some believe that there is but I don't agree. Pro is a specialist tool for professionals, it's not intended to be a fully autotune unit like the Lite.
i have a question then if i was to get there ecu instead of this fuel x lie would the ecu be fine on its own or should/need to get both of them for my 390 and again your videos are amazing
Their ECU is designed for racing, so if you have extensive training and experience in creating maps, yes you can use it (but you would not be asking me this question if you were). If you use the ECU with the base map it comes with or with a map you obtain from some random person on the internet who claims to be an expert then you do so at your own risk - but bear in mind that engine rebuilds are expensive.
I have a Duke 390 and 85% of my daily ride is a city ride. I mostly stay in 2nd and 3rd gear. It becomes really annoying with all the jittering and jumps at low speeds of around 20-30 kmph. I always have to keep the clutch ready just to not feel those repeated engine jerks in bumper to bumper traffic.
Will Fuel X solve my problem?
Should I get it?
If yes should I get the Pro or lite?
Many people have reported less jerky riding at low revs with a fuelling device because city riding is where the emissions controls are the tightest. Or you could ride in different gears, I might suggest trying not to be in 3rd gear at 20-30 kph - I'm rarely below 4k revs unless I am waiting at a junction. Note that this problem will not entirely go away because it's inherent in the engine design. Pro is not designed to solve this issue - I would always recommend Lite for this situation.
Hello David! Yours videos are very educational, thank you for that. I have KTM Duke 390 2021. Mainly I use KTM to get to my job in Warsaw, I am not use Duke for track day only in city. After season I would like to remove db killer in akrapovic exhaust and instal open air box cover from Coober. More of that I am wondering about FuelX. I would like to reduce jerks so what version of FuelX do you recommend? I contacted with Powertronic and they recommend Pro but I am not sure if it is necessary. What do you think? I will be grateful for your help
Race Dynamics are clear that all the changes you intend will be corrected by the Lite - but I suggest you make them one at a time to allow the autotune to adjust. I do not recommend the Pro or the PowerTRONIC unless you understand maps and have the ability to check the fuelling. If you still have warranty you might want to think about the Coober piggyback to protect this. The FuelX is good for correcting the fuelling to a safe level - if you want more than this then upgrading to a full piggyback is necessary.
Sounds like as of today, Coober is the only box to NOT void a factory or KTM Extended warranty?
This video is what i need!!!!
So, i have one question 🤔
When i want to tune up my bike vitpilen401, do i use both PT piggyback ecu and fuelx lite???
(I'm not a pro racer, but i want need more power my bike. And my bike have stock airfilter and leovince lv10 exhaust)
You can use both the PT and the Lite. The PT doesn't measure the lambda sensor so the Lite will tune the map on the PT. But you should make sure that you use or make the right map on the PT for your bike and where you ride.
Hi David, your videos helped me a lot, thank you. I have bought a 390 Duke recently, added rekluse and enabled quick shifter.
Which one is better if I want only decat and put modified air lid: Fuelx Lite or Rb Evo? Will they work with a stock quick shifter? I know RB Evo suggests to buy their quick shifter with a rod.
Thanks. My understanding of the KTM quick shifter is that it is just a fuel cut - there is no mechanical assistance such as provided by the various shifter rods, but I've not studied the parts diagrams. FuelX Lite will cover decat and airbox lid - it looks like Dimsport are currently replacing the EVO with their version of the Lite. Neither in themselves should have any impact on the stock quick shifter as neither control the ignition.
How did you enable quick shifter?
Just out of curiosity, why would somebody buy a motorcycle that stalls? It has a history of stolen that can get you killed sounds like to me KTM needed to step it up instead of somebody else going out and happen to buy a product to repair what they couldn’t fix I might be wrong. That’s why am asking the question.
It will stall if you run it too slow in too low a gear. This is a rider problem not a bike problem. But it is a complaint I hear all the time from inexperienced riders who want to blame the bike not their own lack of skill. I have stalled this bike many times, but every time it is my own fault - and I blame no one but myself for it. 100% stalling is a rider issue, not the bike - people will be angry that I say that, but it is the truth,.
But to take your question a different way, I suspect you do not understand the issue with poor running of modern engines. The issue is nothing to do with poor design of the bike, the issue is emissions controls. Governments have emissions targets that can only be met if petrol engines are banned. This is not just a bike issue - it is mostly a car issue - see 'Dieselgate', see the Audi and other manufacturers who have been caught cheating the tests - because it is not possible to pass the tests and still have a vehicle where the petrol/diesel engine runs well. The Japanese bikes run better because they are not made in the EU and can cheat the system because they meet lower standards. The aftermarket ECU's ignore the emissions controls and put the bikes back to where KTM would want them. KTM off road bikes run very, very well. This is not a KTM problem.
Hi david, im going to install fuel x on my bike which is 2022 yezdi roadster to reduce its problems like jerkiness and stallness and to increase milage, so can i go for fuel x lite or pro, if pro what is mode number for eco mode??
I suggest contacting RaceDynamics to see if they make a model to suit - racedynamics.com/c/
I have a remapped ecu on my bike would the fuel x interfere with the map?
It depends what you mean by a remapped ECU - there are several alternative, and which FuelX you are looking at?
Do you have any opinion about the fuel x pro +?
Yes - my opinion is that if you need to ask about it then I don't recommend buying it. It's a product that works very well - for what it is designed to do, but I often come across posts from people who have fitted it but don't appear to understand how it works and are a wing and a prayer away from a seized engine.
Will this increase the rev limiter?
I’m confused if this device is a remap ecu device or something different.
No it will not increase the rev limiter. From 2017 the stock ECU is locked for changes - some people claim to be able to hack them but.... there there have been a number of scams relating to this. This is a piggyback ECU that sits between the lambda sensor and the stock ECU and modifies the signal - what it does depends which version you buy, but based on your question, I highly recommend that you do not consider buying the Pro since this is a specialist device designed for use by professional tuners (hence the name) and can create engine damage if incorrect settings are chosen
I haven’t found anyone that has also plugged in a Obd2 scanner, everyone just test rides. I want to see the short term fuel change with each setting. How about it. This can be seen at idle. On the short term fuel trim by adj while viewing, you can also record.
No snake oil salesman then.
Well not everyone test rides - you aren't seeing it from me, because there is no point. The Pro is a specialist tool for tuners and professional mechanics so that they can do a short term change to a map. Yes, I could do what you suggest, but I'm not sure what value it would add. So far I have not tried to convince anyone to buy the Pro, quite the contrary, if you are not a tuner or professional mechanic I would recommend the Lite.
Race Dynamics is the Asian equivalent of DynoJet. They are very well known with a strong reputation. Their products do exactly what they say - there is no snake oil here - these are professional level racing products and not actually even designed for use on the road.
@@MotoMirius
In my case my short term fuel is 98% of the time negative 10 to 15%.
I have an engine that sounds like a single diesel when over 3,700 rpm and over 1/2 throttle to max rpm 6,000.
They use the word maps??? on the pro however if it is progressive across the rev range from 3 on, I’ll go for the pro and leave on the best setting.
Cheers
Brian
@@brianrobertson639 FuelX is only running off the lambda sensor, those 'maps' are a set of AFR targets. Ask yourself why there are multiple settings? Because they each only cover a specific range. If you choose a setting and the boundaries are outside what the bike needs then tough, you will be running too rich or too lean. It's a quick way to say goodbye to your engine. The FuelX doesn't know what the revs are - it's not connected to any sensor that will tell it that. The Pro isn't autotune, it will not compensate if you choose the wrong settings. It is designed to be used by a PROfessional who will be running a separate set of measurements and choosing a setting that will adjust a fixed map to a particular and temporary set of circumstances. But if you want to use it then I'm not going to stop you, because it's your bike and your choice.
@@MotoMirius
Many thanks for that. Shall look at the auto tune unit. :-)
@@MotoMirius
In my mind each setting only adds a certain percentage for each setting.
If it does what they, you should notice a certain percentage increase in richness.
Won’t show up any different on the short term reading. However will show up with Wideband exhaust.
Once you open the throttle ecu goes to open and maps plus all sensors take over.
After reading as much info as I have available. Fuel-x is of no use to me. As I have no problem the bike Honda Cb350 Hyness or a GB350 here, in closed Band. But once the
You said the stock ecu is auto tuned is that the same for 2022 ktm390 duke if so there is no need for a piggyback
In theory yes, there should be no need for a piggyback. But, in practice, the stock ECU is limited by emissions regulations which caps how much fuel can be added - fuel creates emissions. Hence the lean running at low revs (urban riding), and if you modify the bike to add more air - airbox lid, exhaust changes then you quickly go outside how much fuel the stock ECU is allowed to add.
Can you advise on, Fuel X pro+ , this is a newer model that claims up to 25% more power. Do i need this for the duke or still the lite enough?
Do you understand what the Pro does? I mean actually understand how it works, not have a rough idea and what it's limitations are? If the answer is no, then you should be using the Lite. Yes, you can get more power with the Pro and the Pro+ but if you use the wrong setting then you can and will damage your engine, which gets very expensive very fast. There are a lot of people using the Pro and will try to convince you to use it, but engine damage does not always happen immediately - it can be thousands of miles down the road before it shows itself.
@@MotoMirius exactly what i tought, plan is to run an aftermarket exhaust and i dont want to be running lean (euro4 bike). So te Lite wil be more then perfect.. i hate having buttons i can play with. That way i feel like i always leave something on the board. Lite is more then enough
Hello sir, I’m riding HSQ Norden901 and aftermarket exhaust installed and full open intake from rottweiler performance. Do you recommand fuelx lite? And It satisfied AFR effect or more cooling engine heat and power performance and safety engine condition?
If you have modified your engine from stock as described and you want a simple system to modify the fuelling to avoid issues then yes I would recommend it.
Hi David, If I use a KN filter and exhaust with DB killer without catalyst of a KN filter with exhaust and DB killer + catalyst, may I use just full X lite on 125 CC ? If I use a lite pro, it'is possible to use in full auto without touching the fuel richness settings ? Thanks for your feedback.
Yes, you can use the Lite. Pro is not autotune so it cannot be used that way, it must be used by someone who has the technical expertise to choose the right setting - hence why it is called Pro - for Professional.
@@MotoMirius Thanks a lot
Question: Do powertronic ECU smoothes low rpm range?
It depends what map you load on it, but yes it can - but a wrong map could make it worse. You still aren't going to get a smooth low rpm range because the engine isn't designed to do that.
@Moto Mirius Hello David, after watching lots of your video`s I decided to buy a Rapid Bike Evo Autotune, does this stack up? I am riding a 2022 Duke 390 and was wondering if the Rapid Bike Evo just became useless (I have not fitted it yet as I still need to get my first service done, only 150km away and planned to fit it immediately after this service.)? Should I return the Rapid Bike and try and get my hands on this one but then the autotune version?
Running debaffled Akra (Austin Racing slip on is on the way but could take a couple weeks), would like to change the airbox and add a Coober lid also.
What r ur thoughts on this, if you dont me asking?
Thank you for all your video`s they have helped me grow and got me to know most parts of the bike inside and out before I even had it.
No, do not return the EVO. The FuelX is great, but it only monitors the Lambda and leaves the stock ECU to run everything else. The EVO monitors all the sensors and does a proper calculation of the correct fuelling - a much more precise and accurate autotuning - you get what you pay for. With any autotune product I recommend adding the new parts one by one and let the autotune adjust before adding the next unit, not dump all the parts on - it takes time for the maps to be adjusted. Currently I'm running Austin Racing slip on, decat, airbox lid, air filter, airbox inlet mod and bigger injector - all on the EVO. I can see I could add some more pages to my website on this and I need to do some more videos.
@@MotoMirius Thank you, this advice will be taken to heart as I intended to hook everything up once I passed the Service ;-). In this case I will hook up the EVO and have the bike learn to breathe and drink with the debaffled akra and the regular engine so I can get the low RPM weirdness out. Couple of 100km later I will update the airfilter. I fully agree, you need to do more video`s haha. I assume that is the general consensus amongst your followers. Thank you for getting back to me!
I have a small question, I'm getting the FuelX Pro installed on my Adventure 390, Needed to know wather whether running the bike lean makes more power or running it Rich makes more power?
A not so small answer! These engines tend to run lean at low revs (for emissions - rough, jerky running) and rich at high revs (to avoid the engine blowing up). If you make it leaner with the Pro to make power at high revs, what happens when it also makes it even leaner at low revs? Max power is running slightly lean but it also will destroy your engine in a very expensive way if it runs just a little too lean.
I personally wouldn't use the Pro to achieve power - it isn't what it was designed to do and it may not end well for you. If you want to make power get a proper piggyback and put the bike on a dyno and let an expert (someone that the racing teams use not someone that the boy racers use) adjust the map for you. It sounds expensive but it's cheaper than an engine rebuild - which is what happens when you play with fuelling and you don't know what you are doing.
@@MotoMirius thanks for the answer! I think then I'll go with the lite and a Powertronic piggy back! That'll be a good combination 👌, thanks again mate
Hey David, I love you. You old bastard 😘 🤗 💜
Ha! Love you too!
Hello, I have a Speed 400 US Triumph, I feel that at low speed 5-10-12Km/hr the bike is very nervous and tends to be unstable, if I go down a lot it turns off, the engine stalls, however when maintaining high speeds the engine is very smooth, the Speed 400 is a sports mode with a classic appearance, and I don’t like that very much in the city where the traffic is high, and I have to drive very slowly. Please tell me which of the two Fuel X is the recommended one? There are currently the Fuel X Lite, the Fuel X, and the Fuel X+. I will be very grateful for your answer. Greetings from 🇵🇪
There is Fuel X Lite, Fuel X Pro or Fuel X Pro+ - not what you listed. If you watched the video then there is a very simple test to know which you need - if you don't understand which to choose then then the one that you should choose is the Lite. Pro - designed to be used by professionals who are looking to achieve a specific result and understand how and what they need to achieve it.
Hi, I appreciate your invaluable answer. Excuse me, just mention the devices by abbreviating them. If I understand the electronic injection, default maps, and how the motorcycle computer generates the mixture. What I want is to make the engine of my Speed 400 Triumph more docile, I want it to improve the unstable behavior at low speed, in the real world in heavy traffic, I don’t want more power, I don’t want more speed than my Speed already has, there is no problem with its power, but with the handling at low speed. I understand that in my case the best option is Fuel X Lite, which only has a map, I wonder if this map was not added, replacing the OEM, and maybe it doesn’t go with my need to make the engine more docile at low speed? Does that worry me? Now the Fuel X, and Fuel x Plus, I know they have 10 driving modes, and you can choose them by enriching and impoverishing the air fuel mixture, but what exactly is the difference between the latter? Thank you very much.
@@Rasecsaisem The FuelX does not have a map. It just monitors the lambda sensor and adjusts the fuel input that the stock ECU map has chosen. If you want a map then you need to choose a full piggyback such as the Power Commander etc. Pro does not have driving modes - but as you say, you can change the AFR target, adding or removing fuel - so my question to you is - how will you know which setting to choose? If you choose the wrong setting then the unit will still run it - it autotunes around the target you have chosen but it will not correct if you have chosen the wrong target - it assumes that you know what you are doing and have chosen that target for a reason - and if the bike runs lean and you burn a hole in your piston for example, then that will be the result of choosing the wrong setting. Lite on the other hand auto tunes to an AFR setting that is typical for the bike but, unlike the stock ECU, is not manipulated to meet emissions targets - such as when you are running at low speed in urban areas where people are breathing your emissions, even if the price is the bike running badly.
Hi, thank you. In Fuel x I was referring to modes 1 to 10 where 3 is the OEM. I have used Pedal Commander in my car. Well, I don’t want that, I’m even an ordinary usurer, I don’t know how to set the Fuel X of the handlebars, that’s for experienced brokers, I don’t want that. But does it differentiate Fuel x and Fuel X Plus? Undoubtedly the Fuel Lite is what I need, could you tell me how it will help by making my Speed 400 more docile in the city, and where I want to go very slowly without the bike wanting to turn off or accelerate by itself? I appreciate it since your answer is impartial.
@@Rasecsaisem If you read my last reply, I mentioned how the Lite works in that situation.
Whats your take on Powertronic Vs Fuel X lite?
Depends what you mean. They are different products that do different things, so it would be more a question of if you wanted to put a FuelX with your PT. Certainly I'd advise the FuelX Lite to help if you were running a PT without knowing if you were using the right map. But I wouldn't recommend the PT to anyone who didn't understand maps - for the same reason I don't recommend the Pro to those people either.
Hi , i own ktm 250 and having low end lag. Will fuel x solve this issue?
Hi, the answer is yes and no. FuelX Lite should improve low end fuelling allowing a smoother low end throttle response. But, the engine isn't designed to perform well at low revs, so it will never run as well there as an engine designed for commuter use.
does the lite also give the engine more fuel at higher revs to match higher airflow?
Lite runs off the lambda sensor so it will adjust the fuelling throughout the rev range. Depending on your level of mods, the limiting factor is the ability of the fuel system to deliver fuel.
@@MotoMirius im considering getting the FuelxPro. I have a full decat exhaust with only a austin racing end silincer and planning on doing the airbox lid mod aswell. Do you think the pro would suffice to make it run not lean? sorry for the trouble
@@BelgianRacingPigeons The FuelX will suffice to avoid lean running. But, I'm not sure, given what you've said so far, why you are opting for the Pro over the Lite.
@@MotoMirius i thought maybe the manual set button might be able to force more fuel into the system on setting 10 as oppose to the non manual one
@@BelgianRacingPigeons Your engine needs the right amount of fuel - too much or too little both cause engine issues and poor running.
Sir i like to change exhaust note in my duke 200.. just removing underbelly and then by using bend pipe i m going to install exhaust does it cause any engine damage..? If i install fuel x lite will it save from engine damage .?
Replacing the under engine pipe will remove 2x cats, so yes, you need to adjust the fuelling. FuelX Lite would be a simple choice to correct the changes needed to the fuelling
Hi David @Motomirius hello from India.
Have watched your duke 390 videos, actually I am planning to decat my 2022 390 duke with mivv decat pipe and change the stock Air filter to K&N / BMC and install powertronics ecu , but I am afraid its gonna hurt the engine.
would the fuel x lite is enough for the bike ? ,
i don't have experience or knowledge with maps.
Thanks in advance ..
Hi, I would have wonder why are you installing the PowerTRONICS ECU if you don't have experience with maps? Race Dynamics say that the Lite is good for all levels of modifications so your Race Dynamics PowerTRONIC won't be doing anything useful anyway unless you actually get it properly set up for your bike. I would install the Lite and see where you go from there. Maybe consider the PowerTRONIC once you find someone who can properly set it up for you - not sure how that works in India, but I would not trust any rider or friend to do this no matter how much they tell you they know what they are doing or how well their bike now runs - unless you know they actually have training and experience in it - engine rebuilds are expensive.
Hi I have an r15v3 bs4 model I usually don't ride much only on Sunday I take it so is it any usefull to install fuelxpro in my bike iam planning to install bmc air filter in my bike does it cause any damage to engine and how much the mileage will drop please reply sir
Hi, my first question having watched this is why you are choosing the Pro over the Lite - the questions you ask suggest that you don't have the right knowledge to run the Pro - the Pro isn't better than the Lite, it does something different and you will need to be able to measure and understanding your AFRs. Mileage will depend mostly on your riding as a result of the change not on the change itself - a more powerful bike should run more efficiently - mileage drops because you ride it harder.
I have installed complete full system exhaust and free flow lid air filter from dna and have installed fuelX lite should i need to upgrade to fuelX pro plus (the newer model) or powertronic piggyback ecu
The Pro is not an upgrade, it is a tool designed for a very specific job and to be used by people with training and experience. The PT ECU is designed for racing, not street use, so you use it at your own risk - and if you had the experience and training to use it then you would need to ask the question. The Lite was designed specifically for people who want to modify their bike (to any extent) and not worry about damaging their engine as a result.
@@MotoMirius so the lite can adjust the afr for complete free flow mod for the bike?
@@revolverocelot2063 According to the Race Dynamics engineers, the Lite can cope with all levels of modification. That said there are more sophisticated autotune ECUs out there - such as the RapidBike Evo which uses all of the important sensors, not just the Lambda so are likely to give a better adjustment - but you get what you pay for.
If you are looking for a complete free flow mod, this would include the airbox runner mod and also upgrading the stock air filter. I would recommend upgrading the fuel injector if you do so.
@@MotoMirius thank you for your response man 😌
Does this have any impact on fuel consumption or engine temperature?
Yes. A lean running engine is corrected by adding more fuel. But a more efficient engine will use less fuel. If the bike performs better, it is likely to be ridden harder, using more fuel. So the answer to your questions in real life as opposed to a dyno chamber is that it largely depends on the rider responses to the changes made. Fuel consumption and engine temperature can be in an inverse relationship - improving one can make the other worse.
Hey David, I used Fuel X Lite on my 2020 Duke 200 bs4 (India) for around 2-3 months. I noticed it gave pretty good mileage and smoothened things at low rev as well as high rev to some extent. But I noticed on various occasions the engine cuts/bike switched off or to put it in simple terms, the power switched off during a sudden pull of the clutch in full while deceleration from 4-3-2 gears, pls suggest. Shall I continue or go back to stock?
I would keep. There are a number of reasons why the bike can shut down under hard deceleration. I have experienced this, but my testing, for my bike showed that it was a clutch related - under hard braking, if the clutch is not properly used or adjusted, then the rear wheel can stall the engine. It's also possible for the side stand switch to trigger if there is play in the side stand - so two examples of how the bike can stall under braking that are not related to fuelling. You could unplug it and test if that removes the issue, and also of course make sure that the connections are all correct - it's possible to a wire to move under heavy braking and break the ignition connection or the FuelX connection. This is the issue with internet diagnosis - there are many possible causes but which is actually the cause requires putting hands on the bike and often this reveals the cause which may be something else entirely. So, good luck with the diagnosis and I hope you identify it quickly!
Does the fuel X lite work as well with the Powertronic unit?
Yes, the two products can be used together.
I just changed the exhaust and am planning to change the air filter on my ktm 390 adventure. Is a FuelX lite sufficient or would it be a good idea to let someone map it on top of that?
Lite should be fine for those changes. Maps are more for racing than road use.
Will this work with the Coober ECU or does the Coober do the same thing?
You shouldn't need it with the Coober given that they are a KTM partner and we can assume had access to the KTM engineers or specs.
hi.
Please can you tell me whare to get the fuelx in the uk for a ktm
There is a dealer list on the manufacturer website. In the UK it is Hitchcocks which is an Indian bike specialist
Can someone tell me how do i begin to start understanding maps in detail so that in the future i can get a fuel x pro and be in a better position to use it better
Before you even start to think about maps, you need to have a strong understanding of the mechanics of the engine, fuel, exhaust and ignition system. Then you need to understand how those interact in the four stroke cycle and learn how to identify symptoms of lean or rich running and what modifications need to be made to correct them; how temperature, altitude etc impact. Then you can start to look at maps and what optimal curves look like, how to build a good map which maximises what you want to achieve. This last is a big part - any fool can create a map based on basic learning, but it takes expertise and experience to build one that will optimise engine life while still improving performance.
@@MotoMirius thanks a lot for your response sir. I was also wondering - it might sound stupid though but would appreciate your response, that for something that is so nuanced and needs so much experience from a human rider, fuel x lite can do that automatically without having an adverse effect on the engine? I know I'm missing something big here
@@deeghalbhaumik3779 Stock ECU is designed to adjust fuelling and maps in response to changing environments and bike build. But it also has to meet emissions standards - for this the stock setup is assumed and so for example if you increase airflow then you need to add more fuel, but the stock ECU is blocked at a fuel threshold - because that level of fuel the stock bike would fail emissions. An autotune unit like the Lite simply works around this by changing the input signals into the stock ECU and then adjusting the output signals. The nuances you talk about are done by highly experienced engineers to mimic the stock ECU which was also created by highly experienced and highly qualified engineers who actually understand all the science behind tuning. As with the stock ECU, it won't be an optimal power generating map, but it will be a safe map which can cope with the adjustments you are likely to make.
To make power above the stock tuning levels then you need to step to a race ECU - which the Pro is not - the Pro is designed to work with a race ECU to make short term adjustments.
@@MotoMirius I think I'm starting to get a faint idea but will need to learn a lot more to get actually get it. Glad to know that the lite will create a safe map and therefore I can install it without worrying about it negatively impacting the engine and it will make things a little better as it will work around the limitations that the stock ecu has given emission requirements. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain.
@@deeghalbhaumik3779 Thanks. I think you should look into learning more about the subject - it is very interesting and once you have a grasp of the basics you will be able to make informed decisions about this.
what are differences between this and the powertronics ecu? what extra features does the powertronics have? does the fuel x also give a smoother throttle and more performance
Two completely different products which do two different things. The PowerTRONIC is a mapped piggyback - it alters the mapping of the stock ECU to give better performance - but only if you load the correct map - if you load the wrong map you can lose performance and damage the engine - I do not recommend this product to people who do not understand what it does and what the risks of using this product are - but it is a very good product if you know how to use. Given the question you have asked, I would not recommend that you use the PowerTRONIC unless you have someone with experience to set it up for you - and this does not include asking people on the internet for a map. The FuelX works only with the fuelling of the bike - it is not in itself intended to improve power but the Lite will provide smoother low speed running etc.
@@MotoMirius if the Only mod I do is Decat pipe, do I need a fuel x to prevent the bike running lean or doing damage? Or will stock ecu compensate.. thank you.
@@Partnerthedog If the rest of your exhaust, airbox and filter are stock then you may get away with just the stock ECU. But if you think you may do further mods to the bike such as change the slip on then it's a good investment to make up front.
@@MotoMirius yeah stock airbox and stock exhaust just want to de cat it, for weight and sound. I was just about to order a fuel x lite but it takes 2 weeks and comes out to 170 shipped so it'd be nice not to need it..
Hi David, so you are saying that if I have a full decat and and arrow pipe on my duke 390 I can buy the fuelx lite and not remap?
Hi Alessio, you are still remapping, just that the Lite is doing the work for you and unlike fixed maps is making adjustments in real time as conditions change (which they do).
@@MotoMirius ok thanks, hope i could get one.. I'm from europe and i really want to decat
Hey David,
I've got a duke 125 2020 and I'm interested in upgrading the exhaust. However I cannot decide between the fuel x and the Powertronics V4 Ecu. I do not know how to tune myself but the powertronics Ecu comes with some pre made maps. I would also like to get a bit more power out of my bike. Which would you recommend?
Hey Davis. Do you know which map will be the correct one on the PT? This is not just for the parts you have fitted but also the impact of the location where you will be riding. If the answer to that is no, then I do not recommend a mapped unit like the PT - it is designed for racing use - race teams have mechanics who have the skill and expertise to adjust the PT maps. One of the fixed maps might be OK for you to use, but I would not recommend doing so without being sure. The same issue applies to the FuelX Pro - this is designed to be used with the PT so that you have a fast way of modifying the map without needing to update the map manually - but shouldn't be used, in my opinion, as long term solution to an inappropriate map. In short, my advice is that if you don't know how to tune then either use the FuelX Lite or go with a full autotune unit like the RapidBike Evo. But with the 125, the question is always why not upgrade to the bigger Dukes 200 to 390 which are the same bike with more power instead of spending a lot of cash for a quite small return.
@@MotoMirius thanks for the answer, I'm going for the Rapid Bike Evo, found a good deal for it, around 300 euro. The reason for not upgrading to a 390, even though I have considered it, is I do not have an A2 license. I simply don't want to go through the process of getting an A2 license, and I'm quite happy with my 125. Realistically I have no need for a more powerful bike, since my daily commute doesn't involve a lot of motorway speeds.
This may be a personal question but I'm looking to buy the fuel x lite but they were asking for £250 £120 for the fuel x lite and the rest £130 just for delivery and was wondering how much you paid for your fuel x and which website did you use to buy it from ? Thank you sincerely tyler
Are you buying from India? They list regional dealers on their website to overcome the delivery cost issue - and one is in the UK - accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/accessory-shop/Powertronic?ext=F&search=fuelx
@@MotoMirius thank you so much and I was looking on the official fuel x website which I believe is in texas thanks so much for the help I appreciate it
@@TylerMoto Official website is in India. US is a US dealer
I have a new Vitpilen 401. Does the FuelX Lite void the 2 year warranty?
The dealer will look for any reason not to have to pay out, so yes it can. Some dealers are OK with it.
@@MotoMirius Ok, thank you, I will straight up ask my dealer about it.
Does the lite compensate enough for a decat?
According to the manufacturer, yes
I was wondering if this would be good if I changed “exhaust, air box filter and cover, and Decat? Can it handle all those mods? Or would it be pointless to do that much mods?
Depends which you mean by this - these are two very different products, which can be confusing - one is not an upgrade of the other, they do two very different things. The Lite, according to the manufacturer will handle all modification.
@@MotoMirius Yes I was asking about the fuelX lite. Do you think it’s auto-computer could really handle a Decat and wide open exhaust with wide open air box? Will that make my fuel economy bad? With less power? I just don’t want to blow up my engine lol how’s the experience been with you while you’ve had it?
@@Funny_as_Duck there is no reason it can't it is just reading the lambda sensor and telling the bike ECU to add more or less fuel. Decat and open exhaust are not major changes in the scheme of possibilities. I don't use the FuelX because I already use the RapidBike Evo which also reads other sensors to give more accurate fuelling - FuelX is entry level so it does not do everything.
With regards fuel economy, it is not the simple question you think. If the bike runs lean because of your changes then yes, it will use more fuel, but if your engine has more power it will need less throttle so will use less fuel. But, with a louder exhaust most riders will use the throttle more so they can hear the exhaust - and it is this that makes the fuel economy worse.
Hi sir i have a 2022 duke 390 which is bs6 and i have changed the exhaust setup to bs4 duke 390 and the motorcycle runs a bit lean after the exhaust setup i am trying to buy a fuel x which is the best to buy the pro or the lite version?
Will fuel x increase the afr ratio from lean to a good mixture?
My mods on the bike is:
NGK IRIDIUM SPARK PLUG
BMC AIR FILTER
BS4 DUKE 390 EXHAUST
The recommended product is Lite. Pro is a different product to support a professionally tuned setup. The Race Dynamics engineers are clear that the Lite will support all levels of mods.
@@MotoMirius thank you sir 🙌🏻🥷🏻
I want to install a full system free flow exhaust in my rc 390 and a performance air filter. I am buying fuel X just because I don't want to get my engine seized. So which one is better for me Lite or pro?
That is an easy one. If you need to ask the question, then you should use the Lite. Pro is for Professional tuners or those who use Professional tuners (this does not include tuners used by boy racers). Good luck!
@@MotoMirius Ok thnx for your opinion
Obviously you will buy what you want, but the Pro is not a better version of the Lite - it is a different product that does a different thing. In my experience engine rebuilds are time consuming and very expensive so I try an steer people away from choices that are likely to result in one.@@terminatorgaming7426
@@MotoMirius So according to my usage fuel X lite or pro?
If your usage is racing on the track and you've got a map built for the bike by your professional tuner then you should choose the Pro for the occasions where you race in a different environment from what the map is built for - but in that case you should be discussing this with them.
For any other usage the answer is Lite.@@terminatorgaming7426
Can I use this in R15 what changes will happen if I installed the pro version?
Check with Race Dynamics to see if it works in the R15. If you install the Pro version then you take responsibiity to ensure that you choose the right setting, and change settings when you need to. If you don't know how check if you are using the right setting then you should be using the Lite version to ensure that you don't create damage in the engine. Pro works best, in my opinion, with a mapped piggyback unit so you can trim the unit for one off changes without needing to update your map.
@@MotoMirius thanks
hello greetings!
I have a 2017 Duke 390 in bone stock condition the only mod(if we may call it so lol) is that i’ve removed the DB killer from the stock muffler for better sound..
I wish to ditch the stock air filter & upgrade to K&N performance air filter.
Im thinking if I should go for the FuelX lite for my bike for reduced vibrations and better performance?
kindly help me make a decision and if FuelX lite would be the right product for me?
thanks in advance🖤
For what you are proposing the FuelX Lite would be what I would recommend. It won't reduce vibrations, they are normal for a single cylinder bike of this type - I would suggest that you make sure that you don't run the bike at low revs as this is where it will vibrate most as it's not designed to run like that.
@@MotoMirius okay apart from that should I get the fuelX lite installed as ill be upgrading to the performance Air filter?
As I said - yes @@speeedy26