I thought on one of your videos that you said that you shipped to Europe and British Isles so I tried ordering some plants and I got as far as going to pay for the order and were it says country all I could get was United States ,and I couldn't get it to change. I tried to do business with you and ended up being disappointed but I still enjoy your videos.
Only down side I've ever had was breeding Rosy barbs. One day I was watching the tank for some time and spotted a fry in the updraft tube. Pulled the tube and stone out and slowly, one by one most came out... I say most because I did pull the fish and uproot the filter to find 3 more that couldn't find the way out. Since then, I've put one of the tubes in with no stone, so IF that should happen again, there's a strait shot out, and I covered the tubes with plants (horn wort and moss).
I had a unique experience with a under gravel filter when I was a teenager. I had a 20 gallon next to my bed and quite often fell asleep watching the fish swim around. Even though I had livebearers which were constantly having babies I still knew each and every fish. One day I looked over and saw a young swordtail swimming in the vertical tube of the UGF. I quickly flung open the tank lid and pried the top of the tube off to release him. I was confused how this fish got in the tube that only had very small holes. As I watched him swim around I realized that he wasn't any of the fish I knew! What I eventually concluded was that he must have worked his way thru the gravel and squeezed into the UGF while still a little fry and then had grown up down there! Think about that. No light, no fresh food and very little swimming room. Amazing!
I have been using undergravel filters in all my tanks since 1960. They are the least expensive and most efficient filtration system available. Aquatic plants love them and so do most fish. The only exception would be large digging fish. I have known of one case where a six inch goldfish was in the habit of moving enough gravel to uncover the plates, causing the water flow to bypass the gravel and cause huge ammonia spikes. I don't recommend UG filters for diggers, but for anything else, it's the best way to go unless you have a spare hundred or so dollars to spend. One thing I can say from experience. I have never had an undergravel filter take more than ten days to completely cycle even starting with fresh gravel out of the bag. If you have used gravel to mix in, it can take less than five. I prefer to use powerheads to run my filters for two reasons. First, because the produce a stronger movement of water. Second, I have hard (325 ppm) water, and the spray from an airlift coats the sides and lids on my tanks with a crust of calcite. Let's talk about mulm. Yes, mulm does build up under the plates of an undergravel filter. But is that a bad thing? For a fish only tank, my answer is; maybe - if you neglect your water changes. For a planted tank, the answer is a big, capitalized, NO. Let me explain: What is mulm? Where does it come from and how does it get under the filter plates? Every tank contains some mulm. It will be there until someone breeds a fish or invertebrate that doesn't poop and makes a food that won't decompose if it the doesn't get eaten . Mulm is decomposing organic matter. It originates from three sources. One, poop from fish, shrimp, snails, and any other aquatic animal you have in your tank. Two, uneaten food. Three, leaves, stems, and other plant parts that break off and die. All of these things are heavier than water, so they naturally fall to the bottom of the tank. Even before they fall, microorganisms living in the tank start to work on them. If there are any gardeners out there, this will sound familiar, It is exactly what happens to the stuff you throw into your compost heap, and the end result is the same thing- humus. Yes, mulm is aquatic humus, and it has the same benefits for aquatic plants as terrestrial humus has for your garden and potted plants. As the stuff decomposes, it breaks down into finer and finer particles and drops through the spaces between grains of gravel until it reaches the solid bottom of the tank. If there is no undergravel filter, It would still find its way through the substrate, just not as quickly. As the mulm decomposes, it releases the minerals stored in the food or poop back into the water. If the substrate is filled with living plant roots, it is quickly absorbed and used by the plants. If there are no plants present, that is why every sensible aquarist does water changes and gravel vac. The mulm will decompose, and the minerals will be released, regardless of the filtration system used. Whether it happens in the sump, the canister, the sponge, the sand, the gravel, or the floss is up to you and what kind of filter you use. In an undergravel filter, it happens in the gravel or under the plates where it can be easily be absorbed by the plants. Another, seldom mentioned, benefit of undergravel filters is their effect on the oxygen - carbon dioxide cycle. Everyone knows about photosynthesis and how plants turn CO2 into O2. Most know that under bright light in a heavily planted tank, this can result in over oxygenation and a deficiency of CO2. What is less well known is that this process stops at the top of the gravel. The roots of plants do not receive any light and do not perform photosynthesis. They must absorb oxygen and release CO2 or die. By circulating water through the gravel, UG filters bring oxygen down to the plant roots, and move the carbon dioxide produced by the roots up to the top of the tank, where the leaves and stems can use it in photosynthesis. One result of this is that with an undergravel filter, you find that the substrate is filled with a luxuriant growth of clean white roots. This is particularly obvious with Amazon sword plants, which will send huge masses of roots down through the filter plate and into the mulm below. I will always use undergravel filters, and if they stop making them, I will make my own out of cpvc pipe. Don't worry about the haters. Hate is the result of ignorance. I know that the UG filters work and so do you.
i agree 100% i have been using undergravel filters love them it does every thing these idots are trying to recreate started 1972 and will use ugf until i die this high tech stuff is just another way to keep you buying more stuff
I'm planning on using a ug in a 29g tank. I don't know if 1 powerhead is enough to pull water throughout the gravel bed. I feel that the far end of the tank wouldn't get any water movement through the bed.
I just left a local shop near me....EVERY tank in the joint... 300 total...(discus, arowana, everything you can imagine)... EVERY tank running under gravel filters ONLY. 50% water change every two weeks. Don't let anyone tell you they aren't effective!
I was heavy into the hobby in the 80's-90's. Worked in retail and wholesale and managed hundreds of aquariums. I used UG filters on all of my tanks (fresh & salt; breeder, cichlid, planted, etc.). I reentered the hobby a few years ago and was dismayed about the attitude toward UG. Glad to see this video. I think they keep tanks healthy by eliminating pockets of anaerobic bacteria and keeping substrate full of oxygen. My planted tanks were always amazing. I know it doesn't mimic nature, but taking fish out of oceans, rivers and lakes and placing them into little cubes of water is totally against nature. Que sera, sera!
Great presentation! I have been using undergravel filters all my life and they have worked great for me. I go all the way back to the box filter in the corner with fibler glass angel hair material from my childhood. When the hang on the back bio wheels came out I used them and was never really happy with them. I became tired of buying filters. My first job as a kid was in a pet shop and all they used was undergravel filters. You really can't be an expert on something unless you have used the product or the process for a reasonable amount of time. I used them then because they were the standard. I use them now because they work great and they are green; leaving a smaller carbon footprint over time. Buying filters for hang on the back units is not exactly green and uses more resources over time. The conversations back then were all about how to breed better and more interesting fish. Now the conversation has turned to filter bashing? Let's get back to just loving the hobby and supporting others in it and having fun; there used to be many fish hobby clubs where people socialized and shared the joy of fish keeping. I am a fan of your work and thanks for your contribution to the hobby.
I work for a large aquarium retailer, I sell these undergravel goldmines to customers who buy starter kits that come with cartridge style internal/hang on filters. As they throw away half of their cycle each month with the cartridge, I find the undergravel keeps a plentiful supply of nitrifying bacteria to keep the tank running :)
I made one with pvc pipes... it's still in use after 3ish years... had a store bought one in the 90s in a 55 gallon... loved it... when I got sober 59 months ago, I looked for, but couldn't find, that's why I built one... thanks again Cory and gang for your awesomeness...! Go enjoy nature today...!
I've had aquariums since 1963 so here's my 2 cents worth... All through the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s all the tropical fish stores in my area only used under-gravel filters in their tanks because they take the least amount of maintenance as opposed to over-the-back and sponge filters. Use coarse gravel to allow room for debris to be sucked down through the rocks and under the plate and your aquarium floor will stay clean without having to do weekly vacuuming. And if someone has only one large tank in their home there is no reason in the world you can't use both under-the-gravel AND and over-the-back filters at the same time. I did this with a 55 gallon tank and there was virtually no maintenance involved with my aquarium during that time. Awhile back I retired and got rid of all my aquariums to move cross country. I am now getting ready to set up one last aquarium, probably another 55. My plan is to use both an under-the-gravel and over-the-back combination again because I don't enjoy doing frequent maintenance and would rather keep anything resembling work to an absolute minimum at this point in my life.
I've used UGFs all throughout the 1980s with great success. Now that I'm getting back into the hobby, I plan on doing a nice aquascape, using both UGFs and possibly an over-the-back filter if I go with a 75+ tank ;)
@@konacopia The nice thing is that if you originally set up your aquarium with an under-gravel filter you can then add an over-the-back filter at anytime or not. Enjoy.
Amazing🙏 thank you very much for this knowledge Was hesitant to setup the gravel filter in my new 55 but that’s my first thing on the list tomorrow, then some big rock gravel and a lot of plants🙌 just missin a lil air action decor Nd some bonsai wood w Java moss Nd some beautiful rock features
Juan Ambriz I don’t see the need for both, pending on how much filtering you need with your tank’s bioload. Per Cory McElroy’s best filters video, he shows how you can “upgrade” your hanging filters by adding a tube sponge on your hanging filter’s intake, eliminating the need for a sponge filter. The downside of using a sponge filter is it big & bulky, taking up a lot of space in the tank...and if it’s a display tank, sponge filters are unsightly. So if you truly needed two types of filtering systems, I would just do a UGF & a hanging filter.
I think the "problem" with undergravel filters is the perception from the consumer. Similar to sponge filters. When someone sees filters in the store the giant canisters with a huge price tag catch your eye first. Then you see some more affordable HOB filters. Then you see a sponge filter or UG filter which only cost a few bucks and our consumer driven attitude makes us think that the cheap option cant be nearly as good as the more expensive options. I dont see why the size of the tank would matter so long as you use an appropriate sized UG filter. The other problem I can foresee is the long term use. If you run a UG for months/years you'll probably get to a point where you need to remove it and clean underneath it.....and its just such a huge chore to have to break down the entire tank just to clean the filter. I remember way back in the day when I used UG filters how incredibly disgusting it got underneath the UG once I broke it down (which as you note may or may not be detrimental and your idea of drilling the bottom of the tank would definitely solve the issue.....but arent the bottom panels of most tanks tempered?). I'm sure a UG cant/wont trap more waste than any other filter. Its just that any other filter is a bit easier to break down and clean.
Rich's Fishes My local fish shop has one in all salt and fresh water tanks and they have been up and running for over 30 years.. I have had one up now since I moved into my current home and that will be 17 years this June. My discus tank has been running about 5 years next month. So with proper maintenance there is no need to break them down.
Julian Morgan Depends on the tank and the bio load. But at least once a week vac the gravel. At least once a month remove decorations and clean those spots. And about every year to 18 month remove lift tub and suck detritus from under the plate. I like to alternate from side to side in larger tanks that have more than one plate. So as not to remove to much at one time. Does that make sence ????
Yeah, I've been thinking/saying this for a few years now. I'm not convinced that mulm is a bad thing. I'm not convinced it is beneficial either, but definitely needs more investigation for me to make up my mind.
Yeah it's funny how the public's opinion can change. I can understand that we may have better tech now. But they are viewed as they couldn't possibly work.
I am currently running an UGF on my 180 gal community tank with just two powerheads attached. I switched because I was losing to many fry through the overflow and they would end up in my sump dead or alive. The tank has been running for 8 yrs with the UGF with absolutely no problems. The easiest filter to maintain in my opinion. Just vacuum the gravel which pulls all the waste out that is trapped under the plate. The biggest downside to this filter are people. I get so tired of fish people always trying to roast me for using an UGF. I used them in the 80's & 90's and still love them.
Thanks for the info Jerry, I find this really helpful. Can you do me a favor? Did you notice any difference between running air and the power heads? Or did you jump straight to the power heads on the system? I'm wondering if people actually see a difference or we just assume. Kind of like when you get a new car, because it's new it feels faster :P I may have to do some tests using dye to put my mind at rest lol.
Sorry, I got busy...I definitely noticed a big different with using power heads over running air. When I was a kid in the 80's, UGF was probably the cheapest way to filter your tank, especially larger ones. I used them in my south American cichlid many times. The fish really have to thrash the substrate to cause any problems. In my experience, the usual redecorating, even with exposing parts of the filter didn't have a huge impact. Just smooth the gravel back over and problem solved. The thing I like most about an UGF with power heads is the security of having your whole filtration system inside of the tank. There are no hoses to do down and siphon water onto your floor and the system is super quiet. In comparison to canister, sumps and HOB filters the UGF is the easiest to maintain.
I have to agree with you, I have a 75 gal community tank, with UGF on it with 2 power heads and a Fluval 305 filter on it also, and I recently brought my pleco into my local pet store, he was getting to big, when they tested my water, was told water was in great shape, well established tank, UGF's work and work well.
Aquarium Co-Op I haven’t used power heads but I really crank up the air to the ugf lift tubes. I have experimented with lower air but I get better results with high air. I can actually see the air come up slowly from underneath the gravel. The water definitely has a current under the filter. I am very curious to see what you find out. I realise this is an older post and you have probably already done your evaluation by now. Jerry Johnson wrote about his experience with ugfs and I enjoyed his thoughts on the matter. My experience may differ some because I have a smaller tank.
At last. I can come out of the closet and admit I like undergravel filters! I used to run them on all my tanks in the 70s an early 80s -- they ran great. I had a planted 29g tank with an undergravel, and the plants developed the strongest root structure in that tank I've ever seen. I also souped it up by fitting a powerhead to the lift tube. Worked perfectly. It would be interesting to go through the magazine article from then in journals like TFH and FAMA to see what the growing arguments against them were. In fact, I seem to recall that back then the prejudice was against sponge filters...
What I find to be hilarious about this whole concept is that, for my whole life, my parents would always be discontented if any of us ever set up a tank WITHOUT undergravels!
I never knew that undergravel filters were so unliked, I haven't used one since I was a kid in the 80's, I had undergravel filter and Dynaflo hob in my community tank, the combo kept my tank clear and fish healthy, even with all the mistakes a young person makes.
I've used a reverse-flow under gravel filter as part of the return from my canister for decades. The plants love it and it greatly increases the opportunity for biological filtration. High-tech and low-tech filtration can work hand in hand to create a healthy, beautiful, and durable aquarium.
That’s really interesting! So if I understand correctly, the water coming back out of your canister is delivered via an under gravel filter? Is that as simple as running the return tube to the under gravel plate? Does it displace finer gravel? I’m imagining an air stone buried in sand XD Thanks for sharing!
@@moledude I do the same thing but take it one step farther. I pull water from the Left side under gravel to go to the canister and return water to the right side under gravel. This helps me reduce the current in the tank for my gold fish and adds filtration for the big pigs!
Wisdom, logic, and experience 👍 On point man! Back in the 90's, under gravel filters are the "it" filtration. I think the negative stigma is just a marketing stunt created to be able to sell new filtration products. I used under gravel filtration when I had goldfish. They thrived for almost 5 years until I went to college. The key to a successful under gravel filtered tank is coarse substrate or smaller pebbles and c'mon people don't be lazy, CLEAN YOUR TANKS!
NiX aKi In the late 80s and 90s UG filters were all you used. I'm almost 30 and I remember lugging buckets of fish and water and gravel and cleaning those filter plates the putting it back for my mom's fish tanks. Now, that I have moved out and grown up I'm still marking off 3days a year to go to my parents house to help mom clean the same UG filters I grew up with...it makes me laugh.
Aquarium Co-Op can you do a video on sponge filters. I am curious as to where all the bio load goes? If I were to use sponge filters and I put chemicals in water to cure disease in tank then where do them chemicals go since there's no carbon. I just haven't had luck with sponge filters so can you please explain them so I understand more in detail.
I use an undergravel filter with 2 powerheads. The airstones just don't move enough water. Using powerheads on the undergravel filter completely makes a huge difference. I use an undergravel filter with 2 powerheads and 2 hob 90 gallon penguins on a 55 gallon tank. I like to over filter and keep my water crystal clear. Personally I love an undergravel filter.
The comment about "mulm" I found interesting since in my opinion when waste has been transformed to mulm most of the biodegradable nitrogen has already been converted to nitrate. From experience I have had some build up of mulm in several of my tanks with no adverse affects, assuming regular water changes were performed. The mulm in my opinion is basically a slow release fertilizer for the bacteria and can be beneficial in manageable amounts.
I agree, most people I talk too think that the mulm is the source of nitrates. With no scientific testing to back it up, I find that mulm has no relevance to nitrates. so if I have 3 inches of mulm and no fish in a tank, and i test it a month later, I have no nitrates in the water, because I wasn't feeding the tank etc.
Cory this falls into the category, "the internet says so, it must be true". Well I have been keeping fish for 40 years and I still have and use some UGF with power heads. I will say there are times when a sponge filter or other means of filtration are better or as good but it all depends on the hobbyist, their skill set and the fish and what they want to accomplish. Also, as for large digging fish, I have had the filter plate save the bottom of a tank when a large rock has fallen because of the fish digging. Check out some of my current videos, I have a 125 gallon tank with discus and I am using UGF along with a emperor 400 and aqua top 500. Find what works for the individual and the fish they keep and as always be open to and listen to new ideas....Great Job.
I use underground filters in all my tanks along with an AAP pro 5 sponge filter in each. All are Crystal clear. Plants are well fed by excess waste pulled undergravel. . The undergravel filter cost about 8 bucks. I use the sponge filter mainly for a bacterial backup. A friend of mine uses an undergravel filter and has cichlids. He has an inch or so of gravel before he puts a screen then adds another inch or two of gravel on top so the cichlids cannot dig down to the base, works pretty good.
If you remove the riser tube from the under-gravel filter while you are cleaning your aquarium, you can put the gravel-vac over the hole and pull out most of the mulm under the filter, then replace the riser-tube and air-stone. Underneath the filter is now clean and you're ready to go for a couple more years; except for the usual gravel-vac and water changes. I used an under-gravel filter for years with a large pleco and it worked very well keeping the water clean and ammonia-free! Also, I never worried about the filter starting up after a short power outage while I was away as I did with the HOB filters. If I were to set up a tank again, I would use the under-gravel filter for sure.
My first ever tank I ran as a kid I combined the UGF with a hang on back on my 29 gal. I connected the intake of the HOB to the down spout of the UGF and it worked awesome for 7 years. Never lost any fry and it really kept my aquarium clean compared to what I use now. I'm working on my first planted tank and forgot about that and will be using a UGF again
A fantastic speech, sir. Kudos to you for even deciding to speak about it. “It’s not what you look at that matters, it’s what you see.” ~ Henry David Thoreau
Late to the show, but I like UGF. I'm an old guy, back in the day you had two filter choices: the UGF and a box filter in the corner. If you know how to use them they work great. A few tricks I learned: 1. to clean the gunk that collects under the plates after a long time, stick your siphon tube down the lifter tube and suck it out that way. 2. If you have diggers, put some "egg crate" down on the plates before adding the gravel. This keeps the fish from digging all the way down to the filter plates. BTW, just found your channel and I'm enjoying your videos.
I have had an under gravel filter in one of my tanks for 6+ years and have never had a problem. Never pulled it up and apart and still works just as well as the day I got it. Had no idea they had such a bad rep.
I’m 56 and had several tanks back in grade school including UG filters. This morning pulled the stuff from storage and I don’t see any reason not to use the UG.
I was shocked to come across this post. I have had two tanks in my life and I about to set up my third. I know so much more this time but I have wondered why I wasn’t seeing more under gravel filters. I didn’t know how to take care of tanks before and I didn’t. The closest I came to a water change was when I did gravel vac (maybe once or month or two months) and I had to add water. I am already planning on my next tank being an UGF. I really hope to get to your store someday! It would actually be an honor to meet you in fact. I have a lot of respect for you!
Used undergravel filters for 50 years. Great water quality and healthy fish. I have moved to power heads on my120 gal tank and it works great. My plants grow really well. No fertilizer, regular gravel vac and water changes quarterly. Easy easy.
Cory, good to see objective discussion on underrated undergravel filters ( UGF). I note with satisfaction that other supporters are also voicing opinions. Having used a UGF in an in wall tank for thirty+ years. I can say I've never had a problem that wasn't my fault due to poor maintenance.
I have used undergravel filters in almost every tank I've had in 25 years with only natural gravels. I swear by them, no matter what's trendy. I've had a handful of bare tanks but only for breeding. I've never had debris build up under the UG filters, just sand that stuck to the gravel and bacteria on the sand and it's just a thin layer even after years of use. I mix it up, I currently run power filters off the UG riser tubes so they're powered. I LOVE Undergravel filters. That's my 2 cents
I started with undergravel filters... they work. But... they can work better.... the secret.... Reverse Flow. Have the powerhead direct the water down the "uplift" tubes and force the water up through the gravel - no collection of mulm etc. If you add a prefilter on the powerhead, the water will be mechanically filtered BEFORE it goes through the substrate. And if you want the ultimate undergravel filter.... power them by having the outlet of a canister filter be aimed down the "uplift" tubes. Fill the canister with mechanical media only (all the various sponge filter porosities).... superclean water and a bio filter the size of your aquarium footprint... and with normal fish digging (not a big cichlid), the digging will ensure your biofilm are younger bacteria... which are more efficient at converting NH3 & NO2 than older bacteria. . Nice job Cory on becoming a mythbuster! More ranting mythbusting!!!!!
That's pretty crazy because I have this dinky novelty 3.5 gallon tank and the undergravel filter is shaped like a 3 pronged star. It does reverse on its own. I started on little tanks as a kid, you know the kind that you get at gift store that are hexagonal and 2 gallons. They had full surface undergravel filters yet never witnessed it do that. I've also had large tanks 20 to 80 gallons but never used undergravel. I was a big boy 30 years ago and wanted that shiny new Penguin power filter. I would have loved to back then have an undergravel with power filter on one end and a powerhead on the other. That was my wet dream as a kid.... hahhahhah
Can I get a little help here guys. My tank is a 80 gallon tank full of Cichilds. I originally ran an UGF with powerhead, plus the hang on side filter. This Christmas I bought a canister filter that can handle a 200 gallon tank. I installed the canister filter and it's been running for about a month and a half. I'm about to remove the hang on side filter and UGF. Any thoughts? Should I turn UGF to reverse UGF or just pull the entire thing out.
@@russaification What if you had two layers of filter grates with some gravel in between the two, most gravel on top. Then if the fish dig through the top layer and expose the top grate, you have a "reserve" of gravel that cannot be dug up.
Hey Cory! I'm 61 and had aquariums a long time ago as a kid. I was completely stupid re: the nitrogen cycle - as most kid hobbyists were at that time. I ran aquariums with both under gravel and box filters. My fish in the tank with the under gravel always lived and thrived while the other tanks were death camps. Consequently I have fond memories of those under gravel filter tanks. Years later I started keeping fish again and learned about the water chemistry etc. I finally figured out the reason my box filter tanks died was because I believed the cleaner the better and frequently cleaned the box filters, while I pretty much just left my under gravel filter alone. I now run canister and sponge filters, but your video has gotten me excited about trying those old under gravel filters again. Maybe in a corydora breeding tank. Thanks!
Completely agree with you on under gravel filters. I feel there are too many positives for there to be so much hate towards this type of filter. It wouldn't be my top choice but they are definitely a consideration for me when I'm starting a new tank especially for a planted tank. Looking forward to seeing how the under gravel filters work out in your tanks!
When I started fish keeping the under gravel was the ultimate compared with box filters. My last tanks all ended up under gravel all you need to supply is air . Then siphon a third of the gravel per water change. Floating plants work fine with under gravel set ups.
I have a 75 gallon tank with 21 leleupi and 6 tropheus. I run an undergravel system. I have 2 powerheads pushing about 250 gallons per hour and two never clog bubblers in the middle. I also run two hang on the back marineland 75 gallon filters. I haven't had a problem and always get tons of compliments about how clean my tank looks. I watched your video about how to get the most out of the hang on backs and used that info. I added intake sponges, sponges inside the filter, and bio bags to maximize everything. I think that having a combination of filtration is the best thing to do. Thanks for the videos Co-Op.
My community planted tank runs UG in reverse trickle flow, and has done since the 1980's. Works just fine I think. Mulm in my substrate is part of my nutrient system for my plants.
I have been keeping aquariums for over 45 years, and have always used undergravel filter plates. The only thing that has changed through the years, the fact I have changed from the air pumps to power head pumps with aeration tubes to intake air and put it into the tank. Two 250 gph powerheads for each 55 gallon tank keeps them absolutely beautiful. One drawback is that the Convict Cichlids do not care for fast moving currents, so I tone it down a bit. I rarely do water changes, just add when it evaporates. No live plants as I have not ever used them. I always use 2 inches of gravel on top of the grids, and have had some tanks set up for over 15 years without a total tear down, and no sick fish or bad water counts. Love the undergravel filters and I have two 55 tanks, a 30, and three 10 gallons all set up with them and I can afford new ones on my disability income. The highest cost is the type of fish I have. Fire Mouth Cichlid, Electric Blue Acara, Convict Cichlids, and a half dozen gold fish. And a 14 inch long Pleco, named King.
Anytime I have fish tanks up I use undergravel, pretty much since the 80's. It is an ecosystem. Having live plants and tank cleaners (like kuhli loaches) help make the tanks more maintenance free. I agree about being careful with diggers, but if your gravel is thick they will be okay. It has a pleasing look compared to other filter systems. If you are breeding fish, cover the intakes (I used a small cleaned mic cover with a band around it) to keep fry away from where you don't want them to go.
great video tonight I loved the rant I've been using undergravel filters for about 50 years and hang on the back filter for about 50 years I think both are about equal but I do love the undergravel filters again good job on this video tonight.
Yeah, that is where I see UGF the most, the problem is I always dismissed them as most LFS are run pretty poorly, so I associated that with the usefulness of the UGF, which is a leap of logic and a bad one because there is no correlation. So that is my bad and after doing my own testing I find that they do have uses for sure.
I worked in a fish store in the 80's while I was in College. We had undergravel filters in every tank. We also used a Diatom canister filter to supplement, and it was moved tank to tank,a couple times a day, filtering every tank about once a month. We sold most tanks with an undergravel filter and a hang on back filter. I like undergravel filters, I also like supplementing them with a power mechanical filter... and weekly water changes. My present favorite system is a Reverse-Flow undergravel filter, using a small canister filter with the return hose fitted to the undergravel filter's uplift tube. So, the canister filter is used as a pre-filter for the Reverse-Flow undergravel filter -- running "clean" water down, then up through the gravel, oxygenating the gravel bed. I also use a hang on the back filter, and both canister and HOB are filled with sponges only. I also have an air stone under a submersible heater. The tanks are heavily planted and plants are doing well. I service the canister filter about every 6 months, the HOB monthly, and I do a 10% water change weekly (vacuuming the gravel). I use stands that have an open top, so I can look under the filter. I also have little strips of mylar hot glued to the bottom of the tank so I can monitor water flow. No issues observed.
I ran an undergravel filter for 5 years in my 150 gal corner tank. I pieced several together and covered with 3-4 inches gravel. There were a few areas where there was only gravel. I ran a mix of air stones and powerheads on the filter. I also ran a Fluval canister filter with peat, bio stones and a sponge. I had great water. My fish were very happy. When I sold my tank and broke it down, there was lots of muck under the gravel but not under the undergravel plate. Plants would not live in my tank due to low lighting. I've start back fish keeping and I'm running an undergravel filter with a sponge filter too. So far all is well.
Seven years ago I ran my first tank with an undergravel filter. After about a year I removed it. The reason? The internet told me that plants did not appreciate that much circulation through their roots. I still don't know if that's true. One certain downside to an undergravel filter is that it takes much longer to gravel vac a tank than to give a sponge filter a few squeezes. Since you have substrate in that tetra tank, for example, you currently have to do both. But be honest; do you gravel vac that tank as often as you clean the sponge? Ditching the sponge would require regular gravel vacing for sanitary reasons instead of aesthetic. But now that I think about it, one can't assume that the gravel would need to be cleaned as frequently as a sponge filter. The vastly increased volume of filter media offered by undergravel filters would allow more time between maintenance. How much time would not be easily determined since it's not as obvious when an undergravel filter needs to be vacuumed compared to a sponge filter. I really didn't set out to write a qualifying summa on the subject, but it goes to show how nuanced and controversial this piece of equipment really is!
+ExtraSteps here is my theory. Let's say over 6 months 1 pound of food goes into a tank. No matter what collects it. 1 lb of food needs to leave the system eventually. So either by sponge filter or by undergrad vac. I typically do apologize he's and gravel vaccing the same day. I would surmise that the time is very similar and perhaps I get clearer water with the undergrad. Time will tell my thoughts if I maintain lots of underframe filters.
I am another who has used under-gravel filtration for 50 years starting when it was generally thought it was the best for the one-tank family and closest to how nature works. Recommendations: Place more gravel, 3 inches deep for a big tank. Other filters the gravel is just for looks, with under-gravel it is the eco system. This also makes sure that the normal disturbance by fish will not expose the filter plate. Water is always crystal clear. Do not overdue the gravel vacuuming, it is not needed. I just siphon some debris now and then. I have left the system alone 10 years without problems, except algae on the glass. So clean the algae about once a month. I have not planted very much, but it was aid that the under-gravel is very rich for plants. I would like to know how other people have faired with aquascaping and under-gravel.
I use both undergravel filters and sponge filters in my tanks, and I've done so for many years without any problems. It's a very efficient combination. I even put one in one of my wife's tanks. She wouldn't let me put a UG in one of her other tanks nor would she permit me to put any gravel in it which she now regrets because it is always constantly cloudy. All of the other tanks done my way look beautifully clear.
It's always good to hear your opinion about the hobby. It takes confidence to say these sort of things sometimes and it is better when you take the time to talk it through as you have, rather than acting as if these things are laws to be obeyed. Thanks as always Cory.
I use an undergravel filter for my turtle tank, I think they help tremendously with flow and keeping oxygen/water movement in the substrate. I also run two canisters, one with an inline UVB light also...so I can't honestly say if the undergravel wasn't working if the two canisters would be enough, but so far so good! Very old school, but still very effective :)
Btw...the intakes on the canisters are in the undergravel tubes, so the water is vigorously pulled through the gravel...works great for me, and totally agree and liked your rant! :)
I agree with everything you said except for the depth of the gravel bed. Based on my experience, a deeper gravel bed ( 3 to 4 inches) of coarse gravel works better than a shallower bed of finer gravel. Also, natural gravel with a rough surface texture seems to work better than that colored gravel with a smoother surface.
I use an old canister filer I purchased at a yard sale some 10yrs ago, to suck up any waste from under the undergravel filter. I take out the air tubing along with the air stone leaving the up-tube, and then put the canister filters intake hose down the up-tubes. I prime and plug in canister filter and it sucks up any and all waste through the filter material, the outlet hose from the canister filter is connected to the rim of the tank and the expelled water comes out pretty clean. I do the same through the other sides up-tube as well, and the fish, snails and plants don't seem to mind this at all. My 29yr old 75gal O'Dell tank doesn't get cloudy much at all.
I have a feeling that they get a bad rep because some of the cheap small tank kits come with them. I had one of those kits. It didn't last long, as it was like 2 gallons, overstocked, and only had like 1/2" of gravel. The filter wasn't the issue; literally all of the invisible things were. But cuz I only saw the filter, my 10yo brain blamed the filter.
Love the way your mind works! Your videos are full of so much practical knowledge. Thirty years ago when I was last involved with aquariums underground filters were widely used and people liked them. I’m betting people fell for the “get the latest and the best” hype. Thanyou for sharing in your videos.
Hi Cory. I've been using UG filters for over 50 years in all sizes of tanks up to 90 gallons. Of course I started with air driven filters and then as the aquariums got bigger i went to powerheads so the flow-thru the gravel bed would be right for the increasingly larger filter area, ( I find the Marineland Penguin 1140 is the most efficient pump I've used, at 6 watts for 1140 litres/hr.). I figure the most important thing to help keep a healthy environment for our friends is: if you're thinking of using an UG filter; when aquarium maintenance is performed ( I.E. WATER CHANGES ), ALWAYS VACUUM THE GRAVEL THOROUGHLY. If you can't do the whole bed in one water change, do what's left the next time you perform regular maintenance. Cory, I think you've explained it in a way that should help any fence-sitters out there make a more informed choice about UG filters.
Warren did you notice a difference when you switched from air drive to powerhead driven? I only ask because I know I would assume that is is doing better using the power head. But I was considering testing it by releasing dye into the water and see how it is taken into the UGF with air vs powerhead etc.
I didn't notice a difference, filter-wise, but you do get another source of water movement that has to be directed to the surface for oxygenation and the outlet on the PH has a venturi that allows variable air flow mixed very well with the water coming from the UGF. Because the flow is much higher than air-driven, the general rule of 1 lb. of gravel per gallon of water should be adhered to, which gives 2.5 to 3.5 inches of gravel for a longer dwell time with the little good guys. I'd like to see a dye comparison between the 2 methods of pumping, well, just because it sounds cool! But beware of greater turbulence with the PH.
ronerx I thought about that one day while driving lol. Still new to the hobby so please forgive my ignorance. In my mind it was a way to add that much more biological filtration , and/or more of a turn over of the water. Does this sound correct?
tanaquil1983 it's a good way to combine two great filtering methods, and no bubbles! Low maintenance and crystal clear water also. You get massive surface area for BB
In 2023, this is the best rant ever! I love Cory more and more with each video...btw, I'm bingeing the Daily Dose for the second time. I'm loving the hobby years later and AC is part of that passion!
Useing the UGF to set up an Anoxic filter is actually amazeing. Ive been useing one since I started when I was 10. I'm 34 now and got back into the hobby. Having the UGF works the mulm and stuff down to the bottom for all the plant roots and micro funa . Useing something like seachem Flourite or Safe T Sorb(I mix both since the flourite seems to have plenty of iron, and STS is 8$ for 40lbs). works amazeingly well to house all the bacteria needed For a full nitrogen cycle. I do have about 3-4inches of substrate with rocks to slow the flow in certain areas. It takes about 3-6 months to completely set up
UG filters are perfectly fine. I think where people get hung up is overloading with biomass. On that same note if they over clean their gravel they can do more harm than good which is where a dual filter system is nice so you always have a stable bacteria colony. My 2 cents.
Michael Pennett That is exactly how my mom successfully ran her tanks for over 30yrs...UGF with no water changes & no gravel vac. It took her a while to accept that chloramines and alternative filtration has fundamentally changed our understanding of this hobby...for the best and the worst.
I used undergravel filters back in the early/mid 90s... never had a problem. Regular vacuuming was all that was needed, just like it still is. Think companies just want people to spend more money on filters and canisters lol.
I recently put an undergravel filter in my ten gal. community tank which I also run the Whisper filter in. I also used your advice and added sponge to my Wisper filter. My tank is crystal clear and my fish are happy! I
Been using UGFs since 1983 when I got my first 55 gallon. Had to give up hobby for about 12 years because too many moves in military. Just got back to hobby this year with a 14 gallon cube. Stayed away from UGF because of all the new stuff out there these days. Big mistake. A few months after starting, I emptied my tank, installed a UGF (slow moving is important - powerheads are not ideal like so many might think), and tank was better within two days. I set up my 75 a few months ago and it has been crystal clear and running near perfect water parameters after initial cycle. By the way, all the plants I purchased from Co-Op are looking ten times better then when they were shipped AND they were shipped in mint condition (thanks for that!!). I do run a Tital HOB but only for filter floss polishing, a sponge, and a place to put my Purigen so the tannins from wood pieces are soaked up and water runs crystal clear. I do have a Co-Op sponge filter in each tank so I can keep them seeded for immediate set up of quarantine tank as needed. Could care less about the haters, I'll never run a tank without a UGF ever again! Thanks for dispelling (or attempt) some of the hate of these near perfect filters.
I don't have anything bad to say about under gravel but 1 point I would like to make is the price. with a lot of the equipment needed in this hobby it can be hard to get into it financially. under gravel are near enought the cheapest out there allowing more people to start in the hobby.......that is an awsome thing.
also thought i might add this bibliography on this subject from wet media pets: Channel, Robert, 1987. Floggin' that old horse again. FAMA 10/87. Dewey, Don. 1979. How-to: Here's how to build your own highly efficient undergravel filter for those large tanks, or the odd sized aquariums for which no standard size filter is available. FAMA 6/79. Dow, Steven. 1991. Educate your staff on undergravel filters. The Pet Dealer 12/91. Edmonds, Les. 1989. Understanding the undergravel filter. TFH 1/89. Goemans, Bob. Undergravel filters. TFH 4/01. Helwig, Dan. 1983. How-to: Construct undergravel filters. FAMA 2/83. Hovlid, Norman G. 1959. The case for the under-gravel filter. TFH 7/59. King, John M & William E. Kelley. 1973. Efficiency of subgravel filters. Marine Aquarist 4:3, 73. Nichol, Red & Jim Cooper. 1978. The undergravel filter: the debate goes on. FAMA 4/78. Ostrow, Marshall E. 1981. A filtration system with a difference. TFH 9/81. Parker, Nancy J. 1974. Eggcrate Filter. Marine Aquarist 5:2, 74. Schiff, Steven J. 1990. Undergravel filters: maintenance and alternatives. Tips and techniques for obtaining efficient, effective biological filtration for aquariums. AFM 5/90. Schiff, Steven J. 1993. Undergravel filters, pt.s 1 & 2. FAMA 10 & 11/93. Volkart, Bill 1991. Understanding undergravel filters. TFH 6/91. Watson, Thomas T. 1983. Understanding undergravel filtration. TFH 6/83
I have used undergravel filters for over 40 years, and for the past 25 years I have used them in conjunction with canister filters. I have never had a single issue with them. They clean well and never break! I have gone through several canister filters on my current 25 year old aquarium, and have the same functioning undergravel filter that never fails me.Your videos are very informative. Thanks
I've been taking care of aquariums for 40 years I've always been to under gravel filters they are low cost and very easy to take care of and as you pointed out my plants flourish with these filters
My very first aquarium, a betta aquarium, was an octagonal 3.5 gallon with an under gravel filter. It kept the tank surprisingly clean and I only really cleaned it out once a month. This was even back when I was a kid in high school who obviously didn't know as much as I do now. I kept that betta in there for about three years before he died of mysterious causes. I found his head almost completely decapitated for some reason and he was completely alone in the aquarium with silk plants, not plastic ones. I still to this day can't figure out what happened to him. Long story short, I've never had a problem with under gravel filters. I think they are totally usable.
I used undergravel filters when I was a kid. Never had any issues. By the time they needed service, it was time for a new arrangement anyway. Never had any water quality issues, fish lived normal lives. I recently tried UF on a 10 gallon, I forgot about the water accumulating on the lid above the up-tubes. I didn't want that. I thought about but couldn't see putting 2 powerheads on the up-tubes in a 10 gallon. But I think small powerheads are a viable solution on a larger tank. Thanks for the video and the memories!
Pros by Experience: I had one on my 90-gallon tank for about 10 years and it worked just fine. I had eight, 6-inch red Pacu that I fed cat food (like Science Diet0. Don't laugh. Floats on the top and they grew enormous on it. Let's be honest, you're going to have biomass in the gravel whether you want it or not, you might as well take advantage of it. I still conducted routine cleanings of the gravel with a gravel vacuum. It clearly takes longer than cleaning the foam filter systems, but you can't see the under gravel systems. That said, I also added a canister filter when my fish got so large and had no room for a HOB. Also, since the tank was so large and I had about 2-inches of gravel, I ran power heads rather than just air. Cons: If you have a lot of stuff covering the bottom of your tanks (rocks, wood, toys) it makes cleaning the gravel more difficult to maneuver, but you've got to do that anyway, but your 'effective' gravel filter area less, so you'll have to clean more often. Debate: When cleaning out out my tank to the bottom, there wasn't that much debris under the undergravel filter like I thought there was and I think most of what I found was due to my activities of cleaning out the gravel. My aquarium frame allowed me to see beneath it and I could see the biomass and always wondered how thick it was. It ended up only be a thin scum layer.
I had a 55 gal tank a few years ago. I had 4 underground filters with 4 large stacks that I stuck a bubblier in each one. I clean the gravel in my fresh water tank every 6 (drain 60% water) months. I maintain the tank for 2-3 years with great success. Cristal clear water.
This year marks 20 years my aquarium has been running non-stop, which includes the under gravel filter installed at start-up. I've had no issues with the under gravel filter over all these years, and my water has been crystal clear.
I used to used Pefect a Flo undergravel filters on all my tanks back in the 80s and 90s ,loved them, had 60, 40,30 longs 20 longs and 20 gallons. Liked the collars being high and the way the tubes connect,so you can't pull the tube out and gravel get underneath. Used power heads and air lift, always worked great, was breeding African Chipokae and Redtop zebras, the good old days. Don't see those filters anymore.Oh and I hooked up an Aqua clear 300 or 70 to my undergravel tube on a tank and it kicked azz,or worked really well.
My large tank when I was a kid, I used and undergravel, BUT I used the stacks for periodic diatom filter use. Seriously best of both worlds. Great cleaning, flushed out undergravel AND defused the flow for the fish.
I got my first aquarium when I was 12 or 13 in the early 90s. I had an undergravel filter. I didn't do any live plants back then, only fish and decor, but when I left for college many of the the fish I started with were still very much thriving. Never tsted water quality. Never had ich or wide spread illness even once... no problems... crystal clear water. Long-lived fish. I wasn't even the BEST at water change...MAYBE once a month to every six weeks. I am so much more diligent about water quality testing, water changes today then I was back then that's for sure. The more educated I have become, the more work that goes into it, yet back then when I was 13-19 years old, I did it with almost zero knowledge (well I had books that I checked out at the library, but not an internet community) and an undergravel filter and my fish lived long happy lives, and I was very succesful at keeping my fish healthy for many years. hehe
I love them watch my planted 55 gallon with fluorite vid they are great filters I never use just one filter on any tank so an under gravel filter should be part of every tank
I have had under gravel filters in most of my tanks for fourty plus years,whenever I set up a tank I stick a plate down first,still using same filters from thirty odd years ago.Even if I don't use it at first at sometime might change my mind and stick a bubbler or powerhead on.using them right now on 120gal,75gal 12 gal all planted without co2 works great angles,corys,tetras,loaches etc.The 20 gal breeder tank has a sponge filter because the bottom is marbles.after this long in the hobby one try's everything now I like low maintance,under gravel work great for me. Jeff
I've always used an under gravel filter. I bought my 20 gallon tank over 20 years ago, and it's worked fine. it came with the aquarium. I also use a hang on back that was tricked out with sponges like your other video showed. No problem at all.
I know this video is four years old but I’ve been keeping under gravel filter since 1975 when I was a kid I kept 10 gallon aquarium’sand I built some to keep in 120s but I do like to put power heads on the left Tubes And like you said as long as you keep up with the gravel vac ingThey are great always keep a Hang on back filter sometimes two
Great information on undergravel filters . always used undergravel filters for many years . had no problems ..love your honesty on all aspects on fish kipping, great program.
I started in the hobby in the 90's. Back then undergravel filters were all the rage. I used them in the two tanks I had back then. A 29 and 50 gallon and they worked great. Had those tanks set up for many years. I had them both set up with a single tube and a small powerhead. Just got back into it over the past year and have set up that same 29 with the same set up. Have an an aqua clear 20 on it as well just for some additional help and this tank is super crystal clear. I think I'll always use them. No problems here. Good video.
i am 63 years old aquarist, and i started in the aquarium hobby when i was 14 .. I am convinced that a well managed undergravel filter can be a plus . the problem is that some beginner aquarists do not clean their gravel . After awhile the "mulm" accumulate in the gravel and it start producing a big amount of phospate and nitrate , the amount of fish and the feeding as to be taken in consideration . The first probleme is that the KH hardness drop to zero , in order to prevent this you have to add some coral gravel , check the water parameters , see if your water become yellow -brown that a sign that you not doing enough cleaning and water changes, if not your fish will get sick . For my experience for a planted aquarium with undergravel filter i don't like to use an air stone aeration , because it depleat the water of the Co2 produce by the bacteria in the gravel, i will use the reverse flow system with a prefiltration that a great idea . Using a small power head on the exhaust tube is great but do not use massive flow of water it my compact or disturb the gravel bed and the roots . Adding beneficial bacteria is a must for the filtration ... Another great point for the undergravel filter is the fact that it does even up the temperature everywhere .. The plants roots need a warm temperature to have a positive growth, especially cryptocorines species , they don't like "cold feet"... . I have a deep aquarium with no undergravel filter , just a regular gravel bed , when i put my hand in the lower level of water just above the gravel i am astounded how cold it is down there compared to the rest of the higher level of water in the tank . I also have an undergravel filter hook up with an external canister filter , it work great ... In the past i have tried in my aquarist life "dirted fish tanks at least five times , it always started great but after awhile it ended up in catastrophic results , methane gaz production , massive amount of posphate nitrate in the water , massive explosion of differentes algae , fish dying , in the LONG run it is a major error .....So just enjoy your hobby , read and considere other people long time experience , and have fun......
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Aquarium Co-Op Are you planning to make a video on setting up and maintaining a planted aquarium with the under gravel filter?
Do u Ship to Sweden?
Do you sale fish? I would like to order from you 😃
I thought on one of your videos that you said that you shipped to Europe and British Isles so I tried ordering some plants and I got as far as going to pay for the order and were it says country all I could get was United States ,and I couldn't get it to change. I tried to do business with you and ended up being disappointed but I still enjoy your videos.
Only down side I've ever had was breeding Rosy barbs. One day I was watching the tank for some time and spotted a fry in the updraft tube. Pulled the tube and stone out and slowly, one by one most came out... I say most because I did pull the fish and uproot the filter to find 3 more that couldn't find the way out. Since then, I've put one of the tubes in with no stone, so IF that should happen again, there's a strait shot out, and I covered the tubes with plants (horn wort and moss).
Undergravel filter talk starts at 17:36
THANK YOU!!!
@@neverstoplearning2 😀
Model Jet Juggernaut thanks
Thankyou
Thanks you sm
I had a unique experience with a under gravel filter when I was a teenager. I had a 20 gallon next to my bed and quite often fell asleep watching the fish swim around. Even though I had livebearers which were constantly having babies I still knew each and every fish. One day I looked over and saw a young swordtail swimming in the vertical tube of the UGF. I quickly flung open the tank lid and pried the top of the tube off to release him. I was confused how this fish got in the tube that only had very small holes. As I watched him swim around I realized that he wasn't any of the fish I knew! What I eventually concluded was that he must have worked his way thru the gravel and squeezed into the UGF while still a little fry and then had grown up down there! Think about that. No light, no fresh food and very little swimming room. Amazing!
He’s not gonna read all that
@@giovannielefante4655. Facts😂😂😂😂.
I have been using undergravel filters in all my tanks since 1960. They are the least expensive and most efficient filtration system available. Aquatic plants love them and so do most fish. The only exception would be large digging fish. I have known of one case where a six inch goldfish was in the habit of moving enough gravel to uncover the plates, causing the water flow to bypass the gravel and cause huge ammonia spikes. I don't recommend UG filters for diggers, but for anything else, it's the best way to go unless you have a spare hundred or so dollars to spend.
One thing I can say from experience. I have never had an undergravel filter take more than ten days to completely cycle even starting with fresh gravel out of the bag. If you have used gravel to mix in, it can take less than five.
I prefer to use powerheads to run my filters for two reasons. First, because the produce a stronger movement of water. Second, I have hard (325 ppm) water, and the spray from an airlift coats the sides and lids on my tanks with a crust of calcite.
Let's talk about mulm. Yes, mulm does build up under the plates of an undergravel filter. But is that a bad thing? For a fish only tank, my answer is; maybe - if you neglect your water changes. For a planted tank, the answer is a big, capitalized, NO. Let me explain:
What is mulm? Where does it come from and how does it get under the filter plates? Every tank contains some mulm. It will be there until someone breeds a fish or invertebrate that doesn't poop and makes a food that won't decompose if it the doesn't get eaten . Mulm is decomposing organic matter. It originates from three sources. One, poop from fish, shrimp, snails, and any other aquatic animal you have in your tank. Two, uneaten food. Three, leaves, stems, and other plant parts that break off and die. All of these things are heavier than water, so they naturally fall to the bottom of the tank. Even before they fall, microorganisms living in the tank start to work on them. If there are any gardeners out there, this will sound familiar, It is exactly what happens to the stuff you throw into your compost heap, and the end result is the same thing- humus. Yes, mulm is aquatic humus, and it has the same benefits for aquatic plants as terrestrial humus has for your garden and potted plants. As the stuff decomposes, it breaks down into finer and finer particles and drops through the spaces between grains of gravel until it reaches the solid bottom of the tank. If there is no undergravel filter, It would still find its way through the substrate, just not as quickly. As the mulm decomposes, it releases the minerals stored in the food or poop back into the water. If the substrate is filled with living plant roots, it is quickly absorbed and used by the plants. If there are no plants present, that is why every sensible aquarist does water changes and gravel vac. The mulm will decompose, and the minerals will be released, regardless of the filtration system used. Whether it happens in the sump, the canister, the sponge, the sand, the gravel, or the floss is up to you and what kind of filter you use. In an undergravel filter, it happens in the gravel or under the plates where it can be easily be absorbed by the plants.
Another, seldom mentioned, benefit of undergravel filters is their effect on the oxygen - carbon dioxide cycle. Everyone knows about photosynthesis and how plants turn CO2 into O2. Most know that under bright light in a heavily planted tank, this can result in over oxygenation and a deficiency of CO2. What is less well known is that this process stops at the top of the gravel. The roots of plants do not receive any light and do not perform photosynthesis. They must absorb oxygen and release
CO2 or die. By circulating water through the gravel, UG filters bring oxygen down to the plant roots, and move the carbon dioxide produced by the roots up to the top of the tank, where the leaves and stems can use it in photosynthesis. One result of this is that with an undergravel filter, you find that the substrate is filled with a luxuriant growth of clean white roots. This is particularly obvious with Amazon sword plants, which will send huge masses of roots down through the filter plate and into the mulm below.
I will always use undergravel filters, and if they stop making them, I will make my own out of cpvc pipe. Don't worry about the haters. Hate is the result of ignorance. I know that the UG filters work and so do you.
Thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading it and agree with a lot of it.
Emmit Stewart
Spot on!
I used an undergravel filter powered by airstones for years. Never had a problem with my 55g Amazon community tank.
i agree 100% i have been using undergravel filters love them it does every thing these idots are trying to recreate started 1972 and will use ugf until i die this high tech stuff is just another way to keep you buying more stuff
+David A no complaints from my ugfs so far.
I'm planning on using a ug in a 29g tank. I don't know if 1 powerhead is enough to pull water throughout the gravel bed. I feel that the far end of the tank wouldn't get any water movement through the bed.
I just left a local shop near me....EVERY tank in the joint... 300 total...(discus, arowana, everything you can imagine)... EVERY tank running under gravel filters ONLY. 50% water change every two weeks. Don't let anyone tell you they aren't effective!
People have used them for 30 years just fine
I’m resetting up a 20 long after it being in storage for years and I’m going with the old under gravel unit.
I was heavy into the hobby in the 80's-90's. Worked in retail and wholesale and managed hundreds of aquariums. I used UG filters on all of my tanks (fresh & salt; breeder, cichlid, planted, etc.). I reentered the hobby a few years ago and was dismayed about the attitude toward UG. Glad to see this video. I think they keep tanks healthy by eliminating pockets of anaerobic bacteria and keeping substrate full of oxygen. My planted tanks were always amazing. I know it doesn't mimic nature, but taking fish out of oceans, rivers and lakes and placing them into little cubes of water is totally against nature. Que sera, sera!
Great presentation! I have been using undergravel filters all my life and they have worked great for me. I go all the way back to the box filter in the corner with fibler glass angel hair material from my childhood. When the hang on the back bio wheels came out I used them and was never really happy with them. I became tired of buying filters. My first job as a kid was in a pet shop and all they used was undergravel filters. You really can't be an expert on something unless you have used the product or the process for a reasonable amount of time. I used them then because they were the standard. I use them now because they work great and they are green; leaving a smaller carbon footprint over time. Buying filters for hang on the back units is not exactly green and uses more resources over time. The conversations back then were all about how to breed better and more interesting fish. Now the conversation has turned to filter bashing? Let's get back to just loving the hobby and supporting others in it and having fun; there used to be many fish hobby clubs where people socialized and shared the joy of fish keeping. I am a fan of your work and thanks for your contribution to the hobby.
I work for a large aquarium retailer, I sell these undergravel goldmines to customers who buy starter kits that come with cartridge style internal/hang on filters.
As they throw away half of their cycle each month with the cartridge, I find the undergravel keeps a plentiful supply of nitrifying bacteria to keep the tank running :)
I made one with pvc pipes... it's still in use after 3ish years... had a store bought one in the 90s in a 55 gallon... loved it... when I got sober 59 months ago, I looked for, but couldn't find, that's why I built one... thanks again Cory and gang for your awesomeness...! Go enjoy nature today...!
I've had aquariums since 1963 so here's my 2 cents worth...
All through the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s all the tropical fish stores in my area only used under-gravel filters in their tanks because they take the least amount of maintenance as opposed to over-the-back and sponge filters. Use coarse gravel to allow room for debris to be sucked down through the rocks and under the plate and your aquarium floor will stay clean without having to do weekly vacuuming.
And if someone has only one large tank in their home there is no reason in the world you can't use both under-the-gravel AND and over-the-back filters at the same time. I did this with a 55 gallon tank and there was virtually no maintenance involved with my aquarium during that time. Awhile back I retired and got rid of all my aquariums to move cross country. I am now getting ready to set up one last aquarium, probably another 55. My plan is to use both an under-the-gravel and over-the-back combination again because I don't enjoy doing frequent maintenance and would rather keep anything resembling work to an absolute minimum at this point in my life.
I've used UGFs all throughout the 1980s with great success. Now that I'm getting back into the hobby, I plan on doing a nice aquascape, using both UGFs and possibly an over-the-back filter if I go with a 75+ tank ;)
@@konacopia The nice thing is that if you originally set up your aquarium with an under-gravel filter you can then add an over-the-back filter at anytime or not. Enjoy.
Amazing🙏 thank you very much for this knowledge
Was hesitant to setup the gravel filter in my new 55 but that’s my first thing on the list tomorrow, then some big rock gravel and a lot of plants🙌 just missin a lil air action decor Nd some bonsai wood w Java moss Nd some beautiful rock features
Also running a sponge filter and have a HOB filter, any thoughts?
Juan Ambriz I don’t see the need for both, pending on how much filtering you need with your tank’s bioload. Per Cory McElroy’s best filters video, he shows how you can “upgrade” your hanging filters by adding a tube sponge on your hanging filter’s intake, eliminating the need for a sponge filter. The downside of using a sponge filter is it big & bulky, taking up a lot of space in the tank...and if it’s a display tank, sponge filters are unsightly. So if you truly needed two types of filtering systems, I would just do a UGF & a hanging filter.
You praise the UGF!!! THIS is why I love you!!!!
I think the "problem" with undergravel filters is the perception from the consumer. Similar to sponge filters. When someone sees filters in the store the giant canisters with a huge price tag catch your eye first. Then you see some more affordable HOB filters. Then you see a sponge filter or UG filter which only cost a few bucks and our consumer driven attitude makes us think that the cheap option cant be nearly as good as the more expensive options. I dont see why the size of the tank would matter so long as you use an appropriate sized UG filter. The other problem I can foresee is the long term use. If you run a UG for months/years you'll probably get to a point where you need to remove it and clean underneath it.....and its just such a huge chore to have to break down the entire tank just to clean the filter. I remember way back in the day when I used UG filters how incredibly disgusting it got underneath the UG once I broke it down (which as you note may or may not be detrimental and your idea of drilling the bottom of the tank would definitely solve the issue.....but arent the bottom panels of most tanks tempered?). I'm sure a UG cant/wont trap more waste than any other filter. Its just that any other filter is a bit easier to break down and clean.
Rich's Fishes My local fish shop has one in all salt and fresh water tanks and they have been up and running for over 30 years.. I have had one up now since I moved into my current home and that will be 17 years this June. My discus tank has been running about 5 years next month. So with proper maintenance there is no need to break them down.
Thanks for the info, I love to hear long term success stories.
Julian Morgan Depends on the tank and the bio load. But at least once a week vac the gravel. At least once a month remove decorations and clean those spots. And about every year to 18 month remove lift tub and suck detritus from under the plate. I like to alternate from side to side in larger tanks that have more than one plate. So as not to remove to much at one time. Does that make sence ????
I completely agree that it's how the consumer perceives it, that is the problem.
Yeah, I've been thinking/saying this for a few years now. I'm not convinced that mulm is a bad thing. I'm not convinced it is beneficial either, but definitely needs more investigation for me to make up my mind.
20 years ago ugf's were considered top of the line and to be honest my plants never looked so good thanks for reminding me
Yeah it's funny how the public's opinion can change. I can understand that we may have better tech now. But they are viewed as they couldn't possibly work.
I am currently running an UGF on my 180 gal community tank with just two powerheads attached. I switched because I was losing to many fry through the overflow and they would end up in my sump dead or alive. The tank has been running for 8 yrs with the UGF with absolutely no problems. The easiest filter to maintain in my opinion. Just vacuum the gravel which pulls all the waste out that is trapped under the plate. The biggest downside to this filter are people. I get so tired of fish people always trying to roast me for using an UGF. I used them in the 80's & 90's and still love them.
Thanks for the info Jerry, I find this really helpful. Can you do me a favor? Did you notice any difference between running air and the power heads? Or did you jump straight to the power heads on the system? I'm wondering if people actually see a difference or we just assume. Kind of like when you get a new car, because it's new it feels faster :P I may have to do some tests using dye to put my mind at rest lol.
Sorry, I got busy...I definitely noticed a big different with using power heads over running air. When I was a kid in the 80's, UGF was probably the cheapest way to filter your tank, especially larger ones. I used them in my south American cichlid many times. The fish really have to thrash the substrate to cause any problems. In my experience, the usual redecorating, even with exposing parts of the filter didn't have a huge impact. Just smooth the gravel back over and problem solved. The thing I like most about an UGF with power heads is the security of having your whole filtration system inside of the tank. There are no hoses to do down and siphon water onto your floor and the system is super quiet. In comparison to canister, sumps and HOB filters the UGF is the easiest to maintain.
I have to agree with you, I have a 75 gal community tank, with UGF on it with 2 power heads and a Fluval 305 filter on it also, and I recently brought my pleco into my local pet store, he was getting to big, when they tested my water, was told water was in great shape, well established tank, UGF's work and work well.
Simple science is science.
Underground filter is good because the science is there that's it that's all.
Thumbs up!
Aquarium Co-Op I haven’t used power heads but I really crank up the air to the ugf lift tubes. I have experimented with lower air but I get better results with high air. I can actually see the air come up slowly from underneath the gravel. The water definitely has a current under the filter. I am very curious to see what you find out. I realise this is an older post and you have probably already done your evaluation by now. Jerry Johnson wrote about his experience with ugfs and I enjoyed his thoughts on the matter. My experience may differ some because I have a smaller tank.
I really like the idea of using one with bottom feeders/plants. It brings the food straight to them.
I've always preferred under-gravel filters, I think they do a brilliant job. They should be utilised more often imo :-)
At last. I can come out of the closet and admit I like undergravel filters! I used to run them on all my tanks in the 70s an early 80s -- they ran great. I had a planted 29g tank with an undergravel, and the plants developed the strongest root structure in that tank I've ever seen. I also souped it up by fitting a powerhead to the lift tube. Worked perfectly. It would be interesting to go through the magazine article from then in journals like TFH and FAMA to see what the growing arguments against them were. In fact, I seem to recall that back then the prejudice was against sponge filters...
+Anthony Ragan time to bring back the retro aquarium :p
Metal frames and slate bottoms #FTW!
What I find to be hilarious about this whole concept is that, for my whole life, my parents would always be discontented if any of us ever set up a tank WITHOUT undergravels!
I love undergravel filters ,way more surface area for bacteria to grow = a healthy tank .
Thanks for the input :)
+Aquarium Co-Op your audio and video never seem tl be in sync
***** Oh they work fantastic for Shrimp,In future tank builds if have them I will use them and sponges.
I really like the under gravel filters I’m using them in two of my planted tanks gives the ruffage some thing too hold on to is a huge bonus
A good healthy tank requires less maintanence.
I never knew that undergravel filters were so unliked, I haven't used one since I was a kid in the 80's, I had undergravel filter and Dynaflo hob in my community tank, the combo kept my tank clear and fish healthy, even with all the mistakes a young person makes.
Undergravel filters are the best. My reasoning is I'm 51 years old and I've had aquarium since I was a little kid so 40 plus years experience.
I've used a reverse-flow under gravel filter as part of the return from my canister for decades. The plants love it and it greatly increases the opportunity for biological filtration. High-tech and low-tech filtration can work hand in hand to create a healthy, beautiful, and durable aquarium.
That’s really interesting! So if I understand correctly, the water coming back out of your canister is delivered via an under gravel filter?
Is that as simple as running the return tube to the under gravel plate?
Does it displace finer gravel? I’m imagining an air stone buried in sand XD
Thanks for sharing!
@@moledude I do the same thing but take it one step farther. I pull water from the Left side under gravel to go to the canister and return water to the right side under gravel. This helps me reduce the current in the tank for my gold fish and adds filtration for the big pigs!
Wisdom, logic, and experience 👍
On point man! Back in the 90's, under gravel filters are the "it" filtration. I think the negative stigma is just a marketing stunt created to be able to sell new filtration products. I used under gravel filtration when I had goldfish. They thrived for almost 5 years until I went to college. The key to a successful under gravel filtered tank is coarse substrate or smaller pebbles and c'mon people don't be lazy, CLEAN YOUR TANKS!
Oh by the way, never use sand especially the very fine ones for under gravel filtered tanks. Recipe for disaster.
really lol though , smart comment
yeah there good in the opposite way. As in reverse flow pattern.
NiX aKi In the late 80s and 90s UG filters were all you used. I'm almost 30 and I remember lugging buckets of fish and water and gravel and cleaning those filter plates the putting it back for my mom's fish tanks. Now, that I have moved out and grown up I'm still marking off 3days a year to go to my parents house to help mom clean the same UG filters I grew up with...it makes me laugh.
Hehe what fish are in that tankband how big isbit short n anxious
You deserve all the success in the world the time and effort you put in. Thanks for your dedication from London...
Thanks for watching Art :)
Aquarium Co-Op can you do a video on sponge filters. I am curious as to where all the bio load goes? If I were to use sponge filters and I put chemicals in water to cure disease in tank then where do them chemicals go since there's no carbon. I just haven't had luck with sponge filters so can you please explain them so I understand more in detail.
prayformojo thanks
I use an undergravel filter with 2 powerheads. The airstones just don't move enough water. Using powerheads on the undergravel filter completely makes a huge difference. I use an undergravel filter with 2 powerheads and 2 hob 90 gallon penguins on a 55 gallon tank. I like to over filter and keep my water crystal clear. Personally I love an undergravel filter.
The comment about "mulm" I found interesting since in my opinion when waste has been transformed to mulm most of the biodegradable nitrogen has already been converted to nitrate. From experience I have had some build up of mulm in several of my tanks with no adverse affects, assuming regular water changes were performed. The mulm in my opinion is basically a slow release fertilizer for the bacteria and can be beneficial in manageable amounts.
I agree, most people I talk too think that the mulm is the source of nitrates. With no scientific testing to back it up, I find that mulm has no relevance to nitrates. so if I have 3 inches of mulm and no fish in a tank, and i test it a month later, I have no nitrates in the water, because I wasn't feeding the tank etc.
👍🏼
Cory this falls into the category, "the internet says so, it must be true". Well I have been keeping fish for 40 years and I still have and use some UGF with power heads. I will say there are times when a sponge filter or other means of filtration are better or as good but it all depends on the hobbyist, their skill set and the fish and what they want to accomplish. Also, as for large digging fish, I have had the filter plate save the bottom of a tank when a large rock has fallen because of the fish digging. Check out some of my current videos, I have a 125 gallon tank with discus and I am using UGF along with a emperor 400 and aqua top 500. Find what works for the individual and the fish they keep and as always be open to and listen to new ideas....Great Job.
It's been 2 years, do you have a follow up vid? How did it turn out?
It's been 5 years. Have a follow up video yet?
I use underground filters in all my tanks along with an AAP pro 5 sponge filter in each. All are Crystal clear. Plants are well fed by excess waste pulled undergravel. . The undergravel filter cost about 8 bucks. I use the sponge filter mainly for a bacterial backup. A friend of mine uses an undergravel filter and has cichlids. He has an inch or so of gravel before he puts a screen then adds another inch or two of gravel on top so the cichlids cannot dig down to the base, works pretty good.
If you remove the riser tube from the under-gravel filter while you are cleaning your aquarium, you can put the gravel-vac over the hole and pull out most of the mulm under the filter, then replace the riser-tube and air-stone. Underneath the filter is now clean and you're ready to go for a couple more years; except for the usual gravel-vac and water changes.
I used an under-gravel filter for years with a large pleco and it worked very well keeping the water clean and ammonia-free! Also, I never worried about the filter starting up after a short power outage while I was away as I did with the HOB filters. If I were to set up a tank again, I would use the under-gravel filter for sure.
My first ever tank I ran as a kid I combined the UGF with a hang on back on my 29 gal. I connected the intake of the HOB to the down spout of the UGF and it worked awesome for 7 years. Never lost any fry and it really kept my aquarium clean compared to what I use now. I'm working on my first planted tank and forgot about that and will be using a UGF again
So basically your HOB sucks the water trough the gravel and then goes trough the filtration steps inside the HOB?
Martin Proietti Yes. Seems redundant but it's mainly used as a powerhead.
@@307outdoors8 I use both but never thought about connecting them together. Definitely going to try that. Thanks
same here, ran it for ten years
Or a powerhead
A fantastic speech, sir. Kudos to you for even deciding to speak about it.
“It’s not what you look at that matters, it’s what you see.” ~ Henry David Thoreau
Late to the show, but I like UGF. I'm an old guy, back in the day you had two filter choices: the UGF and a box filter in the corner. If you know how to use them they work great. A few tricks I learned: 1. to clean the gunk that collects under the plates after a long time, stick your siphon tube down the lifter tube and suck it out that way. 2. If you have diggers, put some "egg crate" down on the plates before adding the gravel. This keeps the fish from digging all the way down to the filter plates.
BTW, just found your channel and I'm enjoying your videos.
Welcome to the channel :)
I have had an under gravel filter in one of my tanks for 6+ years and have never had a problem. Never pulled it up and apart and still works just as well as the day I got it. Had no idea they had such a bad rep.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. It cements the fact that I think I will love them.
They are wonderful. Of course, I’m 50, They were the go to in the 90’s. Plants are so easy with an under gravel filter.
I’m 56 and had several tanks back in grade school including UG filters. This morning pulled the stuff from storage and I don’t see any reason not to use the UG.
I was shocked to come across this post. I have had two tanks in my life and I about to set up my third. I know so much more this time but I have wondered why I wasn’t seeing more under gravel filters. I didn’t know how to take care of tanks before and I didn’t. The closest I came to a water change was when I did gravel vac (maybe once or month or two months) and I had to add water. I am already planning on my next tank being an UGF. I really hope to get to your store someday! It would actually be an honor to meet you in fact. I have a lot of respect for you!
Used undergravel filters for 50 years. Great water quality and healthy fish. I have moved to power heads on my120 gal tank and it works great. My plants grow really well. No fertilizer, regular gravel vac and water changes quarterly. Easy easy.
Cory, good to see objective discussion on underrated undergravel filters ( UGF). I note with satisfaction that other supporters are also voicing opinions. Having used a UGF in an in wall tank for thirty+ years. I can say I've never had a problem that wasn't my fault due to poor maintenance.
I have used undergravel filters in almost every tank I've had in 25 years with only natural gravels. I swear by them, no matter what's trendy. I've had a handful of bare tanks but only for breeding. I've never had debris build up under the UG filters, just sand that stuck to the gravel and bacteria on the sand and it's just a thin layer even after years of use. I mix it up, I currently run power filters off the UG riser tubes so they're powered. I LOVE Undergravel filters. That's my 2 cents
I started with undergravel filters... they work. But... they can work better.... the secret.... Reverse Flow. Have the powerhead direct the water down the "uplift" tubes and force the water up through the gravel - no collection of mulm etc. If you add a prefilter on the powerhead, the water will be mechanically filtered BEFORE it goes through the substrate. And if you want the ultimate undergravel filter.... power them by having the outlet of a canister filter be aimed down the "uplift" tubes. Fill the canister with mechanical media only (all the various sponge filter porosities).... superclean water and a bio filter the size of your aquarium footprint... and with normal fish digging (not a big cichlid), the digging will ensure your biofilm are younger bacteria... which are more efficient at converting NH3 & NO2 than older bacteria. . Nice job Cory on becoming a mythbuster! More ranting mythbusting!!!!!
That's pretty crazy because I have this dinky novelty 3.5 gallon tank and the undergravel filter is shaped like a 3 pronged star. It does reverse on its own. I started on little tanks as a kid, you know the kind that you get at gift store that are hexagonal and 2 gallons. They had full surface undergravel filters yet never witnessed it do that. I've also had large tanks 20 to 80 gallons but never used undergravel. I was a big boy 30 years ago and wanted that shiny new Penguin power filter. I would have loved to back then have an undergravel with power filter on one end and a powerhead on the other. That was my wet dream as a kid.... hahhahhah
Can I get a little help here guys. My tank is a 80 gallon tank full of Cichilds. I originally ran an UGF with powerhead, plus the hang on side filter. This Christmas I bought a canister filter that can handle a 200 gallon tank. I installed the canister filter and it's been running for about a month and a half. I'm about to remove the hang on side filter and UGF. Any thoughts? Should I turn UGF to reverse UGF or just pull the entire thing out.
This may be genius!!! not sure tho....still trying to figure it all out... lol
Huge footprint sized pre-filter for your canister? Is that what your getting at?
@@russaification What if you had two layers of filter grates with some gravel in between the two, most gravel on top. Then if the fish dig through the top layer and expose the top grate, you have a "reserve" of gravel that cannot be dug up.
Trust this guy he’s so knowledgeable I’ve kept fish around 30 years and I’ve gone back to Ugf
Hey Cory! I'm 61 and had aquariums a long time ago as a kid. I was completely stupid re: the nitrogen cycle - as most kid hobbyists were at that time. I ran aquariums with both under gravel and box filters. My fish in the tank with the under gravel always lived and thrived while the other tanks were death camps. Consequently I have fond memories of those under gravel filter tanks. Years later I started keeping fish again and learned about the water chemistry etc. I finally figured out the reason my box filter tanks died was because I believed the cleaner the better and frequently cleaned the box filters, while I pretty much just left my under gravel filter alone. I now run canister and sponge filters, but your video has gotten me excited about trying those old under gravel filters again. Maybe in a corydora breeding tank. Thanks!
+Constance MacAllister I'd love to have more people test them with an open mind. I think in the right setups they may be the best options.
Would love to see the under gravel filter in a planted tank.
Completely agree with you on under gravel filters. I feel there are too many positives for there to be so much hate towards this type of filter. It wouldn't be my top choice but they are definitely a consideration for me when I'm starting a new tank especially for a planted tank. Looking forward to seeing how the under gravel filters work out in your tanks!
Yeah, I've always gone with other filtration, but recently I've been wanting to experiment.
When I started fish keeping the under gravel was the ultimate compared with box filters. My last tanks all ended up under gravel all you need to supply is air . Then siphon a third of the gravel per water change. Floating plants work fine with under gravel set ups.
I have a 75 gallon tank with 21 leleupi and 6 tropheus. I run an undergravel system. I have 2 powerheads pushing about 250 gallons per hour and two never clog bubblers in the middle. I also run two hang on the back marineland 75 gallon filters. I haven't had a problem and always get tons of compliments about how clean my tank looks.
I watched your video about how to get the most out of the hang on backs and used that info. I added intake sponges, sponges inside the filter, and bio bags to maximize everything. I think that having a combination of filtration is the best thing to do. Thanks for the videos Co-Op.
Undergravel filters have been around for years my dad and i have used them in the past 20 years they are good old fashioned filtration that works.
My community planted tank runs UG in reverse trickle flow, and has done since the 1980's. Works just fine I think. Mulm in my substrate is part of my nutrient system for my plants.
+colinbarsby nice. Thanks for the insight.
I have been keeping aquariums for over 45 years, and have always used undergravel filter plates. The only thing that has changed through the years, the fact I have changed from the air pumps to power head pumps with aeration tubes to intake air and put it into the tank. Two 250 gph powerheads for each 55 gallon tank keeps them absolutely beautiful. One drawback is that the Convict Cichlids do not care for fast moving currents, so I tone it down a bit. I rarely do water changes, just add when it evaporates. No live plants as I have not ever used them. I always use 2 inches of gravel on top of the grids, and have had some tanks set up for over 15 years without a total tear down, and no sick fish or bad water counts. Love the undergravel filters and I have two 55 tanks, a 30, and three 10 gallons all set up with them and I can afford new ones on my disability income. The highest cost is the type of fish I have. Fire Mouth Cichlid, Electric Blue Acara, Convict Cichlids, and a half dozen gold fish. And a 14 inch long Pleco, named King.
Anytime I have fish tanks up I use undergravel, pretty much since the 80's. It is an ecosystem. Having live plants and tank cleaners (like kuhli loaches) help make the tanks more maintenance free. I agree about being careful with diggers, but if your gravel is thick they will be okay. It has a pleasing look compared to other filter systems. If you are breeding fish, cover the intakes (I used a small cleaned mic cover with a band around it) to keep fry away from where you don't want them to go.
great video tonight I loved the rant I've been using undergravel filters for about 50 years and hang on the back filter for about 50 years I think both are about equal but I do love the undergravel filters again good job on this video tonight.
Thanks.
one of my LFS runs over 100 tanks on undergravel filters over the past 30 years. Works great
Yeah, that is where I see UGF the most, the problem is I always dismissed them as most LFS are run pretty poorly, so I associated that with the usefulness of the UGF, which is a leap of logic and a bad one because there is no correlation. So that is my bad and after doing my own testing I find that they do have uses for sure.
Aquarium Co-Op yeah absolutely. a tried and true filter. I think I prefer stores like yours though run primarily on sponge filters
Either way, both methods of filtration is infinitely better for consumers than shopping at a LFS that filter all of their tanks into a single filter.
I worked in a fish store in the 80's while I was in College. We had undergravel filters in every tank. We also used a Diatom canister filter to supplement, and it was moved tank to tank,a couple times a day, filtering every tank about once a month. We sold most tanks with an undergravel filter and a hang on back filter. I like undergravel filters, I also like supplementing them with a power mechanical filter... and weekly water changes.
My present favorite system is a Reverse-Flow undergravel filter, using a small canister filter with the return hose fitted to the undergravel filter's uplift tube. So, the canister filter is used as a pre-filter for the Reverse-Flow undergravel filter -- running "clean" water down, then up through the gravel, oxygenating the gravel bed. I also use a hang on the back filter, and both canister and HOB are filled with sponges only. I also have an air stone under a submersible heater. The tanks are heavily planted and plants are doing well. I service the canister filter about every 6 months, the HOB monthly, and I do a 10% water change weekly (vacuuming the gravel).
I use stands that have an open top, so I can look under the filter. I also have little strips of mylar hot glued to the bottom of the tank so I can monitor water flow. No issues observed.
I ran an undergravel filter for 5 years in my 150 gal corner tank. I pieced several together and covered with 3-4 inches gravel. There were a few areas where there was only gravel. I ran a mix of air stones and powerheads on the filter. I also ran a Fluval canister filter with peat, bio stones and a sponge. I had great water. My fish were very happy. When I sold my tank and broke it down, there was lots of muck under the gravel but not under the undergravel plate. Plants would not live in my tank due to low lighting. I've start back fish keeping and I'm running an undergravel filter with a sponge filter too. So far all is well.
Seven years ago I ran my first tank with an undergravel filter. After about a year I removed it. The reason? The internet told me that plants did not appreciate that much circulation through their roots. I still don't know if that's true.
One certain downside to an undergravel filter is that it takes much longer to gravel vac a tank than to give a sponge filter a few squeezes. Since you have substrate in that tetra tank, for example, you currently have to do both. But be honest; do you gravel vac that tank as often as you clean the sponge? Ditching the sponge would require regular gravel vacing for sanitary reasons instead of aesthetic.
But now that I think about it, one can't assume that the gravel would need to be cleaned as frequently as a sponge filter. The vastly increased volume of filter media offered by undergravel filters would allow more time between maintenance. How much time would not be easily determined since it's not as obvious when an undergravel filter needs to be vacuumed compared to a sponge filter.
I really didn't set out to write a qualifying summa on the subject, but it goes to show how nuanced and controversial this piece of equipment really is!
+ExtraSteps here is my theory. Let's say over 6 months 1 pound of food goes into a tank. No matter what collects it. 1 lb of food needs to leave the system eventually. So either by sponge filter or by undergrad vac. I typically do apologize he's and gravel vaccing the same day. I would surmise that the time is very similar and perhaps I get clearer water with the undergrad. Time will tell my thoughts if I maintain lots of underframe filters.
I am another who has used under-gravel filtration for 50 years starting when it was generally thought it was the best for the one-tank family and closest to how nature works.
Recommendations: Place more gravel, 3 inches deep for a big tank. Other filters the gravel is just for looks, with under-gravel it is the eco system. This also makes sure that the normal disturbance by fish will not expose the filter plate. Water is always crystal clear.
Do not overdue the gravel vacuuming, it is not needed. I just siphon some debris now and then.
I have left the system alone 10 years without problems, except algae on the glass. So clean the algae about once a month.
I have not planted very much, but it was aid that the under-gravel is very rich for plants. I would like to know how other people have faired with aquascaping and under-gravel.
I think your on to something with the sponge dividers. Better patent that when you get it on lock down brother.
I use both undergravel filters and sponge filters in my tanks, and I've done so for many years without any problems. It's a very efficient combination. I even put one in one of my wife's tanks. She wouldn't let me put a UG in one of her other tanks nor would she permit me to put any gravel in it which she now regrets because it is always constantly cloudy. All of the other tanks done my way look beautifully clear.
It's always good to hear your opinion about the hobby. It takes confidence to say these sort of things sometimes and it is better when you take the time to talk it through as you have, rather than acting as if these things are laws to be obeyed. Thanks as always Cory.
+aaron kimberley it's how I learn, I have to experiment to put my mind at rest.
I use an undergravel filter for my turtle tank, I think they help tremendously with flow and keeping oxygen/water movement in the substrate. I also run two canisters, one with an inline UVB light also...so I can't honestly say if the undergravel wasn't working if the two canisters would be enough, but so far so good! Very old school, but still very effective :)
Btw...the intakes on the canisters are in the undergravel tubes, so the water is vigorously pulled through the gravel...works great for me, and totally agree and liked your rant! :)
+Jeff K I wonder if it would work as well at collecting fines out of the water column in reverse.
I agree with everything you said except for the depth of the gravel bed. Based on my experience, a deeper gravel bed ( 3 to 4 inches) of coarse gravel works better than a shallower bed of finer gravel. Also, natural gravel with a rough surface texture seems to work better than that colored gravel with a smoother surface.
Thanks for the input R King.
I use an old canister filer I purchased at a yard sale some 10yrs ago, to suck up any waste from under the undergravel filter. I take out the air tubing along with the air stone leaving the up-tube, and then put the canister filters intake hose down the up-tubes. I prime and plug in canister filter and it sucks up any and all waste through the filter material, the outlet hose from the canister filter is connected to the rim of the tank and the expelled water comes out pretty clean. I do the same through the other sides up-tube as well, and the fish, snails and plants don't seem to mind this at all. My 29yr old 75gal O'Dell tank doesn't get cloudy much at all.
I've been stalking your channel for months. Just wanted to leave a comment and let you know I appreciate your information and hard work.
Thhanks
Hey it has been 2 years now. What is the final verdict?
I have a feeling that they get a bad rep because some of the cheap small tank kits come with them. I had one of those kits. It didn't last long, as it was like 2 gallons, overstocked, and only had like 1/2" of gravel. The filter wasn't the issue; literally all of the invisible things were. But cuz I only saw the filter, my 10yo brain blamed the filter.
Love the way your mind works! Your videos are full of so much practical knowledge. Thirty years ago when I was last involved with aquariums underground filters were widely used and people liked them. I’m betting people fell for the “get the latest and the best” hype. Thanyou for sharing in your videos.
Hi Cory. I've been using UG filters for over 50 years in all sizes of tanks up to 90 gallons. Of course I started with air driven filters and then as the aquariums got bigger i went to powerheads so the flow-thru the gravel bed would be right for the increasingly larger filter area, ( I find the Marineland Penguin 1140 is the most efficient pump I've used, at 6 watts for 1140 litres/hr.). I figure the most important thing to help keep a healthy environment for our friends is: if you're thinking of using an UG filter; when aquarium maintenance is performed ( I.E. WATER CHANGES ), ALWAYS VACUUM THE GRAVEL THOROUGHLY. If you can't do the whole bed in one water change, do what's left the next time you perform regular maintenance. Cory, I think you've explained it in a way that should help any fence-sitters out there make a more informed choice about UG filters.
Warren did you notice a difference when you switched from air drive to powerhead driven? I only ask because I know I would assume that is is doing better using the power head. But I was considering testing it by releasing dye into the water and see how it is taken into the UGF with air vs powerhead etc.
I didn't notice a difference, filter-wise, but you do get another source of water movement that has to be directed to the surface for oxygenation and the outlet on the PH has a venturi that allows variable air flow mixed very well with the water coming from the UGF. Because the flow is much higher than air-driven, the general rule of 1 lb. of gravel per gallon of water should be adhered to, which gives 2.5 to 3.5 inches of gravel for a longer dwell time with the little good guys. I'd like to see a dye comparison between the 2 methods of pumping, well, just because it sounds cool! But beware of greater turbulence with the PH.
30 years ago I had African Ciclids with undergravel filters and 50 lbs of crushed oyster shell. They lived for years in that tank.
+Ken Paschall. Aw man, I thought the statue of limitationS was out on that info!! My BAD!! 😃
Hey I have no room to speak at this point since I can' t text worth a hoot!!! Statute vs Statue of limitationS! LOL🐠🐟🐶🐴💩🙌
Ken Paschall Oh I get it. Just being polite! 👼🏼
***** sorry...
I run UG to HOBs on a couple tanks. Works very well!
genius
I've seen that done, but never done it so far.
ronerx I thought about that one day while driving lol. Still new to the hobby so please forgive my ignorance. In my mind it was a way to add that much more biological filtration , and/or more of a turn over of the water. Does this sound correct?
tanaquil1983 it's a good way to combine two great filtering methods, and no bubbles! Low maintenance and crystal clear water also. You get massive surface area for BB
(I was young) ...but i kept 5 3-4" koi in a 10gal for a yr. with a UG filter and weekly 50% wc.
The BB area is massively under rated
In 2023, this is the best rant ever! I love Cory more and more with each video...btw, I'm bingeing the Daily Dose for the second time. I'm loving the hobby years later and AC is part of that passion!
Useing the UGF to set up an Anoxic filter is actually amazeing. Ive been useing one since I started when I was 10. I'm 34 now and got back into the hobby. Having the UGF works the mulm and stuff down to the bottom for all the plant roots and micro funa . Useing something like seachem Flourite or Safe T Sorb(I mix both since the flourite seems to have plenty of iron, and STS is 8$ for 40lbs). works amazeingly well to house all the bacteria needed For a full nitrogen cycle. I do have about 3-4inches of substrate with rocks to slow the flow in certain areas. It takes about 3-6 months to completely set up
UG filters are perfectly fine. I think where people get hung up is overloading with biomass. On that same note if they over clean their gravel they can do more harm than good which is where a dual filter system is nice so you always have a stable bacteria colony. My 2 cents.
Michael Pennett That is exactly how my mom successfully ran her tanks for over 30yrs...UGF with no water changes & no gravel vac. It took her a while to accept that chloramines and alternative filtration has fundamentally changed our understanding of this hobby...for the best and the worst.
I used undergravel filters back in the early/mid 90s... never had a problem. Regular vacuuming was all that was needed, just like it still is. Think companies just want people to spend more money on filters and canisters lol.
Yeah I"m thinking I need to just keep testing and use em cause so far I love the results.
About to dirt some 10 gallon planted tanks, considered getting some to use instead of the sponge filters.. lol
I recently put an undergravel filter in my ten gal. community tank which I also run the Whisper filter in. I also used your advice and added sponge to my Wisper filter. My tank is crystal clear and my fish are happy! I
Been using UGFs since 1983 when I got my first 55 gallon. Had to give up hobby for about 12 years because too many moves in military. Just got back to hobby this year with a 14 gallon cube. Stayed away from UGF because of all the new stuff out there these days. Big mistake. A few months after starting, I emptied my tank, installed a UGF (slow moving is important - powerheads are not ideal like so many might think), and tank was better within two days. I set up my 75 a few months ago and it has been crystal clear and running near perfect water parameters after initial cycle. By the way, all the plants I purchased from Co-Op are looking ten times better then when they were shipped AND they were shipped in mint condition (thanks for that!!). I do run a Tital HOB but only for filter floss polishing, a sponge, and a place to put my Purigen so the tannins from wood pieces are soaked up and water runs crystal clear. I do have a Co-Op sponge filter in each tank so I can keep them seeded for immediate set up of quarantine tank as needed. Could care less about the haters, I'll never run a tank without a UGF ever again! Thanks for dispelling (or attempt) some of the hate of these near perfect filters.
I don't have anything bad to say about under gravel but 1 point I would like to make is the price. with a lot of the equipment needed in this hobby it can be hard to get into it financially. under gravel are near enought the cheapest out there allowing more people to start in the hobby.......that is an awsome thing.
that said for price and reliability I would go with the sponge filters u allready use a lot
Richard Ball
also thought i might add this bibliography on this subject from wet media pets:
Channel, Robert, 1987. Floggin' that old horse
again. FAMA 10/87.
Dewey, Don. 1979. How-to: Here's how to build
your own highly efficient undergravel filter for those large tanks, or
the odd sized aquariums for which no standard size filter is available.
FAMA 6/79.
Dow, Steven. 1991. Educate your staff on
undergravel filters. The Pet Dealer 12/91.
Edmonds, Les. 1989. Understanding the undergravel
filter. TFH 1/89.
Goemans, Bob. Undergravel filters. TFH
4/01.
Helwig, Dan. 1983. How-to: Construct undergravel
filters. FAMA 2/83.
Hovlid, Norman G. 1959. The case for the
under-gravel filter. TFH 7/59.
King, John M & William E. Kelley. 1973.
Efficiency of subgravel filters. Marine Aquarist 4:3, 73.
Nichol, Red & Jim Cooper. 1978. The
undergravel filter: the debate goes on. FAMA 4/78.
Ostrow, Marshall E. 1981. A filtration system with
a difference. TFH 9/81.
Parker, Nancy J. 1974. Eggcrate Filter. Marine
Aquarist 5:2, 74.
Schiff, Steven J. 1990. Undergravel filters:
maintenance and alternatives. Tips and techniques for obtaining
efficient, effective biological filtration for aquariums. AFM 5/90.
Schiff, Steven J. 1993. Undergravel filters, pt.s
1 & 2. FAMA 10 & 11/93.
Volkart, Bill 1991. Understanding undergravel
filters. TFH 6/91.
Watson, Thomas T. 1983. Understanding undergravel
filtration. TFH 6/83
I have used undergravel filters for over 40 years, and for the past 25 years I have used them in conjunction with canister filters. I have never had a single issue with them. They clean well and never break! I have gone through several canister filters on my current 25 year old aquarium, and have the same functioning undergravel filter that never fails me.Your videos are very informative. Thanks
That's a really interesting thing, many canisters, still the original undergravel.
I've been taking care of aquariums for 40 years I've always been to under gravel filters they are low cost and very easy to take care of and as you pointed out my plants flourish with these filters
I think Wincy and Sassy need to spend some time in the shop; so I can watch all the baby Panda Guppies.
She's getting so old....she only likes tummy rubs, naps and treats.
You need more trout goodieds to keep up with that algae. Group Order =D
My very first aquarium, a betta aquarium, was an octagonal 3.5 gallon with an under gravel filter. It kept the tank surprisingly clean and I only really cleaned it out once a month. This was even back when I was a kid in high school who obviously didn't know as much as I do now. I kept that betta in there for about three years before he died of mysterious causes. I found his head almost completely decapitated for some reason and he was completely alone in the aquarium with silk plants, not plastic ones. I still to this day can't figure out what happened to him.
Long story short, I've never had a problem with under gravel filters. I think they are totally usable.
I used undergravel filters when I was a kid. Never had any issues. By the time they needed service, it was time for a new arrangement anyway. Never had any water quality issues, fish lived normal lives. I recently tried UF on a 10 gallon, I forgot about the water accumulating on the lid above the up-tubes. I didn't want that. I thought about but couldn't see putting 2 powerheads on the up-tubes in a 10 gallon. But I think small powerheads are a viable solution on a larger tank. Thanks for the video and the memories!
hey Cory. you should do a Q&A live stream on live bearers.
I'll consider it :) A few people have been asking for that.
Aquarium Co-Op that'd be great. 😅 every aquarium enthusiast has had at least one type. and every one has guppy's lol.
Pros by Experience: I had one on my 90-gallon tank for about 10 years and it worked just fine. I had eight, 6-inch red Pacu that I fed cat food (like Science Diet0. Don't laugh. Floats on the top and they grew enormous on it. Let's be honest, you're going to have biomass in the gravel whether you want it or not, you might as well take advantage of it. I still conducted routine cleanings of the gravel with a gravel vacuum. It clearly takes longer than cleaning the foam filter systems, but you can't see the under gravel systems. That said, I also added a canister filter when my fish got so large and had no room for a HOB. Also, since the tank was so large and I had about 2-inches of gravel, I ran power heads rather than just air.
Cons: If you have a lot of stuff covering the bottom of your tanks (rocks, wood, toys) it makes cleaning the gravel more difficult to maneuver, but you've got to do that anyway, but your 'effective' gravel filter area less, so you'll have to clean more often.
Debate: When cleaning out out my tank to the bottom, there wasn't that much debris under the undergravel filter like I thought there was and I think most of what I found was due to my activities of cleaning out the gravel. My aquarium frame allowed me to see beneath it and I could see the biomass and always wondered how thick it was. It ended up only be a thin scum layer.
I had a 55 gal tank a few years ago. I had 4 underground filters with 4 large stacks that I stuck a bubblier in each one. I clean the gravel in my fresh water tank every 6 (drain 60% water) months. I maintain the tank for 2-3 years with great success. Cristal clear water.
This year marks 20 years my aquarium has been running non-stop, which includes the under gravel filter installed at start-up. I've had no issues with the under gravel filter over all these years, and my water has been crystal clear.
I used to used Pefect a Flo undergravel filters on all my tanks back in the 80s and 90s ,loved them, had 60, 40,30 longs 20 longs and 20 gallons. Liked the collars being high and the way the tubes connect,so you can't pull the tube out and gravel get underneath. Used power heads and air lift, always worked great, was breeding African Chipokae and Redtop zebras, the good old days. Don't see those filters anymore.Oh and I hooked up an Aqua clear 300 or 70 to my undergravel tube on a tank and it kicked azz,or worked really well.
My large tank when I was a kid, I used and undergravel, BUT I used the stacks for periodic diatom filter use. Seriously best of both worlds. Great cleaning, flushed out undergravel AND defused the flow for the fish.
All I ever used in the 90's and early 2000's was an undergravel filter. I had breeding Angels and many other freshwater fish, with no problems ever!
I got my first aquarium when I was 12 or 13 in the early 90s. I had an undergravel filter. I didn't do any live plants back then, only fish and decor, but when I left for college many of the the fish I started with were still very much thriving. Never tsted water quality. Never had ich or wide spread illness even once... no problems... crystal clear water. Long-lived fish. I wasn't even the BEST at water change...MAYBE once a month to every six weeks. I am so much more diligent about water quality testing, water changes today then I was back then that's for sure. The more educated I have become, the more work that goes into it, yet back then when I was 13-19 years old, I did it with almost zero knowledge (well I had books that I checked out at the library, but not an internet community) and an undergravel filter and my fish lived long happy lives, and I was very succesful at keeping my fish healthy for many years. hehe
Thanks for your insight :)
I love them watch my planted 55 gallon with fluorite vid they are great filters I never use just one filter on any tank so an under gravel filter should be part of every tank
Unless your substrate doesn’t allow it
I have had under gravel filters in most of my tanks for fourty plus years,whenever I set up a tank I stick a plate down first,still using same filters from thirty odd years ago.Even if I don't use it at first at sometime might change my mind and stick a bubbler or powerhead on.using them right now on 120gal,75gal 12 gal all planted without co2 works great angles,corys,tetras,loaches etc.The 20 gal breeder tank has a sponge filter because the bottom is marbles.after this long in the hobby one try's everything now I like low maintance,under gravel work great for me. Jeff
I've always used an under gravel filter. I bought my 20 gallon tank over 20 years ago, and it's worked fine. it came with the aquarium. I also use a hang on back that was tricked out with sponges like your other video showed. No problem at all.
UGF's was my first ever filter 22 years ago and to this day it's one of the best filters i've ever had and used
I know this video is four years old but I’ve been keeping under gravel filter since 1975 when I was a kid I kept 10 gallon aquarium’sand I built some to keep in 120s but I do like to put power heads on the left Tubes And like you said as long as you keep up with the gravel vac ingThey are great always keep a Hang on back filter sometimes two
1989 Toyota Corolla! LOL! Loved your talk on under gravel filters. I'm trying one out right now in a 29g which will house a mated pair of Angels.
I use an undergravel filter on my molly fry tank, it is 20 gallons. I love it
Great information on undergravel filters . always used undergravel filters for many years . had no problems ..love your honesty on all aspects on fish kipping, great program.
UGF was the standard when I got started in the hobby. I used to love them.
I started in the hobby in the 90's. Back then undergravel filters were all the rage. I used them in the two tanks I had back then. A 29 and 50 gallon and they worked great. Had those tanks set up for many years. I had them both set up with a single tube and a small powerhead. Just got back into it over the past year and have set up that same 29 with the same set up. Have an an aqua clear 20 on it as well just for some additional help and this tank is super crystal clear. I think I'll always use them. No problems here. Good video.
Thanks for the feedback. Really interested to hear that no one has really stepped up with much problems.
i am 63 years old aquarist, and i started in the aquarium hobby when i was 14 .. I am convinced that a well managed undergravel filter can be a plus . the problem is that some beginner aquarists do not clean their gravel . After awhile the "mulm" accumulate in the gravel and it start producing a big amount of phospate and nitrate , the amount of fish and the feeding as to be taken in consideration .
The first probleme is that the KH hardness drop to zero , in order to prevent this you have to add some coral gravel , check the water parameters , see if your water become yellow -brown that a sign that you not doing enough cleaning and water changes, if not your fish will get sick . For my experience for a planted aquarium with undergravel filter i don't like to use an air stone aeration , because it depleat the water of the Co2 produce by the bacteria in the gravel, i will use the reverse flow system with a prefiltration that a great idea . Using a small power head on the exhaust tube is great but do not use massive flow of water it my compact or disturb the gravel bed and the roots .
Adding beneficial bacteria is a must for the filtration ... Another great point for the undergravel filter is the fact that it does even up the temperature everywhere .. The plants roots need a warm temperature to have a positive growth, especially cryptocorines species , they don't like "cold feet"... . I have a deep aquarium with no undergravel filter , just a regular gravel bed , when i put my hand in the lower level of water just above the gravel i am astounded how cold it is down there compared to the rest of the higher level of water in the tank . I also have an undergravel filter hook up with an external canister filter , it work great ...
In the past i have tried in my aquarist life "dirted fish tanks at least five times , it always started great but after awhile it ended up in catastrophic results , methane gaz production , massive amount of posphate nitrate in the water , massive explosion of differentes algae , fish dying , in the LONG run it is a major error .....So just enjoy your hobby , read and considere other people long time experience , and have fun......