Isese Or Lukumi, Which One Is Right For Me?🟡🟢🟤
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- #lukumi #lucumi #isese #ifareligion #africanspirituality #orisha #orisa
Lukumi refers to the Afro Cuban practice of Ifa! Isese refers to the traditional Nigerian practice of Ifa! In this video Joseph Baba Ifa explains the similarities and differences between both! Watch this video to see which one is right for you!
To Buy Orisha Clothing 👘, Accessories👜, Spiritual Products🌿, or Schedule a Consultation📝 with Joseph Baba Ifa👳🏽♂️! Visit...!
botanicacandle...
Or...
Botanica Candles & More, Inc.
4955 S Orange Ave.
Orlando, Fl 32806
(407)440-2086
botanicacandlesandmore@gmail.com
SUBSCRIBE! Like! Comment! Share!
Social Media
FB🤩: / josephbabaifa
IG📸: www.instagram....
🙏!Thank You For Watching and Supporting the Channel!🙏
Alaafia, Aboru Aboye Abosise Baba. In Isese we also use coconut when Kola is not available.. even an Orange can be divided to 4 parts to ask IFÁ about our offerings abs requests… as well as if Gin is not available we are taught to use whatever is available.. what I have understood that is important is the devotion, sincerity, good character, love, homage, respects, fulfilling ebo, and to take care of our IFÁ, Ori, and ORISHAS correctly… thank you for all your knowledge and wisdom.. glories to OLODUMARE/ OLOFIN
Thank you for your comment. Statements such as these confirm we have more in common than most people would like to admit. Ogbo Ato!
Aseee!
@@JosephBabaIfaawesome information
The tradition of Isese is also acknowledged all over the diaspora. Lucumi could never be without Isese period. I am of Yoruba birth and would say both are roots from the same tree. One is the elder and that is Isese. Coconut is also used in Yorubaland if needed. Good video but I don't think that encouraging a them or us is a resourceful way to learn or practice. I also find women are very powerful in Isese (Iyami Osorongo an example).
The main thing I don't like about Lucumi is the drama within the community itself, especially in South Florida. I can handle and understand the differences of limitations between the genders/sexes and the practices, but the fight with how things ought to be done is getting ridiculous and also the possible frauds that are out there. It is also good to note that not all houses do the same thing. This is why it is important to do the homework and find the right godparents and the house you feel most comfortable with. Thank you for another great educational video. Ase.
Yes drama is man-made
I am Awo Ifasegun omo Egungun, I chose Isese for the fact that it is the original indigenous faith of my Yoruba ancestors.
These oponion and analysis of yours are pretty accurate, humble and full of common sense. Even if i'm an isese practician, i agree with you babalawo 100%. Blessings awo, ogbo ato.
Aboru Thank you
Lukumi is Isese. Any authentic Yoruba spiritual practice has its roots in Isese. Isese means "A spiritual practice from the dawn of time"
This was a great video. You listed the main reason that put me off Lucumi. It is a beautiful practice but I dont like having limits placed on me due to my gender.
Happy you enjoyed it. My goal is to present information so that people can have an idea of what they’re getting themselves into so they find the best situation for them. Thank you for watching!
@@JosephBabaIfa I love your videos and learn so much in each one. Thank you
Thank you! I am under Isese and I appreciate you doing this video.
This was a respectful broadcast. Always commendably respectful.
Very oversimplified about Lucumí tradition and Ìṣẹ̀ṣe / West African Orisa practices and world views. I would say, a bit naive for us to believe an idea that this is all so very simple and just a matter of minute differences.
I can see where Lucumí community members can gain from exposure to West African Orisa. The areas where devotees and priests of orisa traditions that developed in the Americas can enrich their understandings include broad and detailed nuances such as Yorùbá language and decoding the cuban orisa liturgical lexicon called Lucumí, sacred sites, towns, centers of worship, original foods offered to the orisa in Yorùbáland compared to how all that and more information was translated, transformed, and retained in the harsh environment of chattel slavery in the Americas.
I just can't see what West African Orisa can gain from Lucumí tradition in terms of ritual, worldview, beliefs, aesthetics, except for, perhaps, the resistance / social justice / advocacy work of Diaspora orisa communities. The marketing and propaganda techniques are also advanced among those of the Lucumí and Candomblé communities. The manners in which to navigate in the Americas is also a valuable contribution for all orisa communities; Flexibility is an inherent dynamic and understanding of orisa traditions from their sources in Yorùbáland.
What we see with the young babalawo and olorisa of Yorùbáland, especially those in Ọ̀yọ́, selling Lucumí inspired bead sets to westerners should be seen as a negative and not a positive nor innocent gesture of "influence." It creates mass confusion and makes a mockery of the intelligence of those of us in the Diaspora. Yorubaland is also where the ultimate roots of all expressions of orisa traditions are to be found. All orisa people, regardless of the specific practice, should be concerned with preservation of their roots and not impose their ideosycracies nor allow engagements to occur without cultural sensitivity.
Contact with islamic and christian peoples among orisa communities happened at the exact same time in West Africa, and the results were brought Cuba and other parts of the Americas. If that were not the case, Cuban orisa priests and devotees would not be using the word "alafia" to call the cast of coconut with all four light sides facing up nor singing "barika" during the ñangaré ritual, among other examples. So, we have already pointed out "islamic" influences within Lucumí tradition.
Verses of Odù Ifá or Odù Òòṣà of Yorùbáland, where the language used is still in its intelligible and spoken form, may be, MAY BE, used and understood with a trained individual in a divination session any where. Can a fragment of a verse, that is mostly if not completely unintelligible, of Cuban Ifá or of an oriate of Regla de Ocha be used the same way in a West African Orisa context without being ostensibly out of place? And I don't mean just the "consejos."
I do believe in dialogue. I do believe in joining forces in certain contexts that can benefit all our orisa communities. Full stop.
Personal choice is just that. It needs no justification.
Also, “results” are highly subjective. Just like dreams have no witnesses and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Regardless, I thank you for your demeanor in this and other public contributions.
Thank you for taking the time to watch, Aboru
IBORU. As a new Awo learning the Lucumi language, some things have been shortened to aid the new initiate. There are no shortcuts but in keeping someone motivated it is encouraging to recite the first four things one may learn relatively quickly. I have been shown traditional verses to learn as I develop as well. I'm no young fellow so it's a challenge! Straight out of Igbodu they put us to work on the mat and I've done a few plantes. I see different styles and variations, sometimes it is a matter of showmanship! Lol I say to my younger family learn all that you can. The ancestors will be proud and we need to preserve as much as possible. I've grown to love it all. Peace Oluwo!
Orunmila will reward your enthusiasm for Ifa! Thank you for your consistent support! Aboru Aboye Baba!
People do not have a choice! That is not an African reality or idea! You have ancestor lineage and they communicate what you are and or what is for you directly to you! There is no choice! We are all born when and where for a reason! A persons beloved cannot choose who their direct ancestors are! No intent to bring up another convo but at beginning this choice thing is brought up! That contradicts the unchangable reality of who our ancestors are and what they were and were being! My dreams when I was a youth alone told me what and who I was before I even learned from other humans what IFA or Isese was! My ancestor woke me up directly without other humans influence in any form or fashion! Everyone around me was drug dealing and using and gang banging and or secular religious at best! I was in depth of poverty and living terrible danger but that’s was the conditions it took to awaken me to the truth of who I always been! I suggest others listen deeply by cutting out the world! There is not choice there is only you and who your soul and heart really is! The mind can decieve and be decieved
Interesting
This was a great video I love how he break things down but what I do not understand is that this is Afro Cuban tradition not Cuban Afro tradition I don’t like when I see Cuban people trying to correct a African Babalawo on things that have been taught from generation to generation I guess what I’m saying is the original teachings that never left the land the original and effective methods that’s been clearly working for thousands of years the only reason why they do use coconut instead of cola nut is because the slaves that came to Cuba had to work with what resources that was available to them at the time I see a lot of Cuban people that don’t understand that they are well connected to the African people by blood but will try and act as if they are better or there method of doing things are better but most of there elders are continually coming back to Africa to relearn the tradition and that’s why things are always changing in the tradition for you all . in Africa the initiation of oduduwa still lives on it’s not lost but in the lucumi tradition nobody can tell you how to properly initiate oduduwa that’s the reason your crowned oshinla some will even say you have to wash oduduwa that u can’t be crowned 🤔 🤔 they will say it’s not an ego thing but I think it is
Asé! Iboru Iboya Ibosheshé! Thank you, excellent video! 🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
Iboru
As always, I learned something new. Thank you.
Beautiful video........a very key subject which addresses a frequently asked question
🙏
Thanks. I was curious about the differences.
I think Isese also do not have to address Eggun before they do things. They just take care of Esu first then do what they have to do.
Excellent video and as you said almost at the last, the practice that makes us feel at home is the correct one, I would add, the one that not makes raise ego and arrogance. Congratulations on your video, I am a traditional practitioner, but I grew up next to the Lukumis and I also love the way the Afro-Cubans carry the religion, I even lovingly keep an Ifa bracelet in a traditional color but in an Afro-Cuban style. Aboru Aboye Abosise Babalawo. Sincerely Awo Ifayomi Oosakola Olayiwola.
Aboru Baba, Thanks for watching!
My son doing lucumi and I’m doing isesa
Why the difference is it not ifa you guys are still worshipping or the gods change
Thank you ..love your channel
❤ God Bless you Joseph I Love your humbleness
Humble is the way to go, blessings right back
Alafia Baba Your sensitivity to cultural boundaries adds clarity to the issue at hand
Asé Asé
I reached out on Instagram because I gravely need authentic Ifá divination
Alafia
Here’s the link to schedule
app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=24565265
Ty
Aburu Aboye Abosisie...this was a great perspective.
Thank you
Àború aboye, I'm a humble Ònifá in isese lineage. I use coconut for òbí divination when not feeding ifa during his ose day. If lineages can comfortably put their egos down and take respectfully what works for them we'll see a united community elevating towards iwa pele in harmony. Àlàáfíà and gbogbo iré to you, baba 🙏🏼💚🤎💚💛
My sentiments exactly, Thanks for watching, Aboru
Question, as far as I understand, elekes are not really part of Isese past the Isefa ceremony. Thus would an Olorisa (of Sango for ex) who practices Isese but appreciates the aesthetic of the red & white eleke, need to get that eleke “blessed” by a Lucumi practitioner, or could they just wear it out of symbolic reverence?
The Orisa have necklaces in Isese
Iboru Iboya Iboshishe,
Abure, great video with an excellent explanation!
Aboru 🙏
This is excellent!! Thank you!!
Baba, Very well done. Peace and Blessings , William B.
Thank you
Asè oooo, thank you baba!
Ase O
💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓❣️ That was SO dang on good!
Thank you
Joseph baba ifa i watch alot of your videos and your influence is very large with me .... I would like to speak with you is there any way that i could reach out so we can speak?
app.squarespacescheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=24565265
I agr333 with th3 comm3nt right below me , to much ego and drama in santeria ! IFA ISESE PRACTICE Definitely the way 2 g0 if your trying to join This BEAUTIFUL WONDERFUL AMAZING POWERFUL AWESOM3 TRADITION!!!❤
There are Lukumi houses that are beautiful wonderful amazing awesome and “POWERFUL” as well, good day
In your opinion, does Lukumi say anything about LGBTQ people? I've seen conflicting information and was curious about what you specifically believe
Ifa accepts all people regardless of their orientation. This applies to both Lukumi and Isese.
@ Gill Princes why is wrong Can you give your input why is it
I would like to request more information about Eshu Madubela, te sign IRETE ANZA and Oya Yansa.
Finally, it would be nice to talk about switching religious home or god father. Is it ok?
For the info on Irete Ansa in conjunction with Oya contact (407)440-2086 or visit botanicacandlesandmore.com to schedule an Odu interpretation session. New videos coming soon! Thank you for watching!
Don’t you have to get a reading first to see if either one is the path you’re supposed to take? Can you practice Vodoun and Ifa?
Ifa is for everyone, people are able to practice both
why is there such a limitation on women in lukumi ..as opposed to isese
Both disciplines base themselves on different scriptures that have been interpreted to support or refute the position of Iyanifa. Decisions should be based on lineage because there are clans in Nigeria that do not initiate women as Iyanifa.
Heey! I'm first I'm first!🎵🎶💃💃🎵🎶
I’m second 😂
Bless you Queen!
Question please: can you practice both? I don't understand the seeming division. Can you be a Priest/ Priestess in Lukumi and wear the ide of Orula?
As long as you have oriented yourself, Yes you can practice both. Anyone that has received their Hand of Ifa may wear their Ide of Orula. Thank you for watching!
Isese wears them on they right hand green and brown,lucumi left hand yellow and green
Mefrefum orumila ba ba ifa
Alafia baba I wanted to know after connecting with your ancestors what would be your next step
The first step would be Hand of Ifa
Peace Joseph Baba, how would I go by receiving the hand of Ifa?
app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=24565265
Baba, do you do consultas the Isese way if asked? Or only in the Lukumi way. Thank you!
To schedule a consultation call 4074402086!
Iboru, Iboya, Ibosheshe :)
Great video
Making preparations for the Nana Buruku video, Thank you for the support!
@@JosephBabaIfa omg you've made my day! I'm super excited! Thank you so much!
Baba can you please talk about Oyekun Obara
To schedule an Odu interpretation session please contact (407)440-2086 or visit botanicacandlesandmore.com
Thank you for watching!
Aboru Aboye Baba. Balanced and respectful speech.
If you study the history of Europe. You will see that, in addition to the crusades between Christians and Muslims, there were horrible and bloody wars even between various Christian denominations.
Let us be wise and live with Iwapẹlẹ
We must respect our diversity and uniqueness, but Ifa is Ifa. African spiritual science in general is tolerant, and accepting of the fact that each person has their own particular path and purpose. It's not "my way is the only way"
Iboru, thx for the effort. I believe if you've come to initiation flavors have been understood. Btw sorry if it's been covered but could you pls explain Ofun Meji?
Asé
To schedule an Odu interpretation session please call (407)440-2086 or visit botanicacandlesandmore.com
Asé
How would i be able to reach out to you privately?
To schedule a consultation with Baba call (407)440-2086 or visit botanicacandlesandmore.com
Aburo Aboye Abosise !!!
Alaafia to all I have a question. Well more like an advise. I received my hand of Orula and my Warriors. However I’m under LUCUMI and I feel stagnated because of the communication between me and my elder when I got initiated I was looking fwd to learn and elevate however my Baba is an awesome Baba but between him being in and out the hospital and we hardly speak because he’s always in IFA rituals which I understand I feel as to I’m not growing I’m not learning . My sister who got initiated last year she’s under IFA isese and she’s advanced she’s doing so much and I’m not going to lie I want to cross over and be with my sister and able to learn I’ve been initiated over three years and I’m no where near where she’s at 😔😔😔half of me wants to walk away but my heart is in this I love this and my desire to learn is huge and I feel so boxed in . So my question is . Is there a possibility that I can go from LUCUMI to isese ? Please advise and thank you Asè
Being that both of these traditions are nothing more than different ways to practice Ifa, yes you can switch.
Can you speak on Palo Kimbiza Baba?
Palo episode coming soon
Ase ooo ifa is ifa no matter where we are at
Aboru brother, thank you for the consistent support!
@@JosephBabaIfa
Ogbo ato asure iwori wofun Awon Babalawo Modupe ase anytime
Why is being an Iyanifa such a big deal in Santeria? Why do a lot of the men feel threatened by such women? It’s in the ODU, so I really don’t understand why some men have a problem. It’s weird. A person can’t accept part of the tradition that best suits them, that’s hypocritical. Respectfully
Both disciplines base themselves on different scriptures that have been interpreted to support or refute the position of Iyanifa. Decisions should be based on lineage because there are clans in Nigeria that do not initiate women as Iyanifa.
@@JosephBabaIfa “certain” clans or Isese as a “whole?” Because Santeria as a whole looks down. It’s not the same. I hear you though. Ese modupe oo for the video.
Technically lukumi IS isese (isese means tradition)... what is being called "isese" is Esin Orisa Ibile
Absolutely, utilized the various terms to be able to distinguish them for conversations sake. Thank you for watching
Can you further explain what an iyan ifa is?
ua-cam.com/video/85vRisAFsy4/v-deo.htmlsi=k8YLa6HDBnbCg8e1