Very good review Jimi My main concern is that beginners usually look at the back of the keys to know where they are while they play, here it's very hard to recognize scales and patterns, and yes I totally agree with the dog not working and everything you stated.
Hey Sergio,.Good point about the backs of the keys, we did think of that. It's not obvious in the video, but we mark the 'playing' rod like a guitar fret marker on the back so you can see where you are. White for lower row and black for the upper row. We are also working on new trompette designs. The obvious idea is to raise the chien on a platform like some.gurdies do with their second chien. We'll post videos when we have them
@@GordonVadersHurdyGurdyGateway First of all, amazing that you're reacting to the feedback! But doesn't the raising of the chien on a platform like that reduce the sound even more? There was a discussion in the Gurdy Community on FB I remember that talked about that. I'm not sure how that will make the current chien more playable. I'm no pro player but it may help to make the chien a bit smaller, so that it will need less extreme kickout from the string to rattle. From the comparison with the traditional chien it looked hella big and thick. Also, I'm very curious was the metal part is for on the chien. Is it an extra sensitive adjustment part or something? Won't the nut rattle loose? Again, I'm no pro, just curious :)
@@BlitzsieLDiscoLSnow Hey Bellaen, taking feedback was always going to be part of the plan. when I said platform I meant 'ledges' like a lot of gurdies have, and yes if we do this it will have to be smaller. We'll try out lots of options. Not to criticise Jimi's review but with time and patience it is possible to make the current chien function, but clearly, it needs to be dramatically improved (or redesigned). The metal bolt on the leg, as you correctly guessed, is a means to adjust how far into the chien rest the little bridge sits this allows the player to make the chien bridge adjustable too. We haven't had rattle problems from it yet, but it's not impossible this might occur, but if did, it would a simple fix and maybe just 'something to watch for'... Like we said we'll take all of Jimi's point seriously and address them all. upwards and onwards as they say. Also, we welcome critique, we realise our marketing, as has been mentioned already, may have been a little jarring, and that wasn't our intent so apologies if we've put anyone's back up, but we are totally open to constructive dialogue.
Is the chien currently this tall because you can't sink the wheel inside the ukelele body enough? In that case putting a platform with a more conventional chien at the angle that normally the top of the body would be, could give better results. This chien looks way too bulky to be able to give a satisfying buzz imo
@@nuph thanks, yeah it was supposed to be a simple concept, we have had it working, but we'll take Jimi's advice and redesign it to make it more manageable... we agree a platform is probably the way forward...
Excellent review. Your knowledge and expertise is evident and this unbiased opinion should be very helpful to the designers and investors as well. There IS some potential.
Good balanced review Jimi. Thanks also for letting me see the instrument in real life. As you say, visually it is quite a nice looking instrument, but there are many details in the construction that need changing. I felt your sound recordings made the acoustic sound of the instrument sound stronger than in real life - when I heard it, it sounded much quieter and thinner than the recordings portray. As you say, as a practice instrument, this can be a good thing - like the simple practice fiddles that were popular in the past, which were deliberately designed to have no resonance or volume. Another design feature that is constraining the resonance of the instrument is that sheer mass of the tailpiece, tirant holder and keybox on the small ukelele body. These are very solidly build and heavy, and in reality prevent any chance of that little body ever resonating. If the makers can simplify this - e.g. use a $1 plastic violin tailpiece instead and get the tirant peg holder off the body - this may open up the sound somewhat. In terms of chien design, I would simply base this on the excellent and simple design of the nerdy-gurdy - this is cheap and works perfectly. No need for anything complex.
Thank you for your words, Paul. These recordings might sound a bit more powerful compared to the instrument itself in real life because UA-cam wants it to be a bit louder. It is just the volume.
well words fail me, I knew it was badly flawed from the pictures but this is confirmation. Yes there's issues that can be improved... and I've heard from the makers several times that certain things will be fixed but this "Campbell Keychest" is beyond help. The design means that the player cannot see where they are in a rational or obvious way. The keys holes being in a line at the back view make no sense to me, somewhat like having all piano keys in a line, on one level. Doubtless the chien design will be reverted to one that works, doubtless it will be constructed correctly in time for the eventual release of production instruments but this keyboard? it was supposed to be the main selling point. It was supposed to be some kind of magical invention that will revolutionise construction meaning they could be economically made and be accessable to all. (all whilst teaching the elitists a lesson) but what do we have? a disaster, just exactly as the knowledgable among us said from day 1. My constructive feedback would be...... stop grooming the newbies, stop criticising the knowledgeable, do fix everything, do make it reliable in every respect, do make it easy to play for a beginner, do listen to the advice and act on it immediately, do find a luthier and immediately redesign the keybox. I don't know why I bother to be honest, it's not much better than the Galloping gurdy and that is half the price, yes get a galloping gurdy folks, sod it why the hell not. ffs
What puzzles me most about the keybox is why he does not just lasercut the sides and make regular keys. The tangents would sit on a stable surface, the back of the keybox would be readable, less parts. I do not see the advantage of this system when making square holes can be no work at all.
I also don't see the benefit of sticking to using round keys when they can just as well use square keys like most (if not all) luthiers do. From what I remember, the round keys were introduced because it's easier to drill round holes than measure and cut rectangular holes with the perfect size, but if a lasercutter is at hand, why not just simplify things by using the standard approach? It would make the stabilizing spacers and additional rods obsolete, it would simplify maintenance (replacing keys for example), it would provide a flat surface for the tangents and screws.. And I think it would reduce the required steps of making the keybox, thus reducing production time, which was always a big goal.
@@nigeleaton1 Yes, nearly everything in this review has been pointed out so many times before. The problems were obvious from the pictures and videos, but the maker has so far done nothing but argue with the qualified people providing the feedback. I hope he actually will fix all these issues, because it would be a pity if he sent instruments like this one to his kickstarter backers.
The issue with the back side not looking right could be solved by extending one of the rods (lower rod for lower keys, upper rod for upper keys) slightly so that it comes out of the tangent box first. And maybe even making it a different colour. That way you might get some the "normal" view and orientation back. And Neil said that in the next prototype, the spacer is not glued on to the rods anymore, so sounds more serviceable than the prototype Jimi reviewed. Will be interesting to see how this turns out. I can fully understand that people are annoyed or even angry at his way of promoting this project. The hype and the "us against them" vibe in his posts and marketing is nearly unbearable. But I try to set that aside and look at the current instrument as what it is: an early prototype. Yes, raising money with it now is risky... especially for the customers. There is lots of stuff he needs to solve before this becomes a product. But I think most of the required changes will not drive the cost of production by a huge amount. Provided he can come down from his high horse and actually accept feedback and improvement suggestions. That seems to be the main obstacle here.
Happy new year! Thanks for this review!! I actually recognise you from Castlefest 2018! Thats where my profile picture is from, i had an amazing Hurdy Gurdy group session with you, really opened my eyes at how amazing and complicated the instrument is
@@elektrovolt well you were such a great instructor! Was a lot of fun and it felt really natural to play following your instructions! And yes i would love to pick up one. Since that castlefest session i have been trying to keep my eye out for beginner stuff and saving up money to buy a reliable one that will serve me for years while i learn. Would you have any advise on where to look/start
@@Fullblownviking Thank you, that is really nice to hear! I really enjoy the moments with Stichting Draailier en Doedelzak at Castlefest too.The instrument you played is a 'Phoenix' model by Gotschy/Alexandra Betz. This is a very good beginner instrument, but there are other great options too. As you might have heard before: a decent basic/starter instrument is rather expensive because of various reasons. I would recommend joining the Hurdy Gurdy Community on Facebook and reading this topic: facebook.com/groups/2038441566425103/permalink/2356691474600109/ . Another great video that shows some of the recommended instruments: ua-cam.com/video/3U-FE7KjaD8/v-deo.html I would recommend taking at least a few (online) lessons to get you started. You can always message me if you have any questions!
Thank you for taking the time to review the Gateway Gurdy. Your experience and expertise will help us improve the instrument. We agree fully that our use of the word production prototype was the incorrect... that's on us, we are new at this... we will send you the next prototype... your advice and feedback will help us greatly in our quest to improve our design... we have already made some improvements... the keys have already been upgraded to steel and the spacers and the keys are now removable. we know the axle is too long and we are working on the trompette... we will take a close look at everything you said and make improvements wherever possible... thank you for taking the time to help us and for your honest opinion... kind regards, Neil Campbell and Ed Murphy Gateway Gurdy...
The build quality looks worse than what I do at home. And I am not a carpenter or anything. If you're not able to drill holes in a straight line and with similar size, don't try to sell something you make.
like people have said building a hurdy gurdy below £500 is not easy comparing this to a £3,000 gurdy isnt wise. They have to cut corners to keep cost down.
You can plug it into an amp too? holy moly. Tho might want to install some bearings in the turning knob. This is excellent constructive feedback and testing is what its all about
I mean, I'll be honest, based on videos the maker had released prior to this, I really expected it to be worse. I mean, it's really bad, but I barely even expected it to work at all.
Mostly balanced review of a very flawed design (I was wondering what all the kerfuffling was about on the Nerdy Gurdy Facebook group, now I get it)... for an affordable entry hg the Nerdy Gurdy has it all over this .. Gateway Gurdy, gateway to Hell!
At 12:00 You should've also tried to do the buzzing using the same hand motions as you did with the good gurdy. It will be easy for the maker to say...see...he didn't even try to do it right...even though those who have a gurdy know you were just trying to get to to buzz at all.
I tried to use the same buzzing on the GWG but that did not work. I tried lots of things and tried to adjust the chien but it just did not work at all. There was only one tirant position where the chien buzzed continuously and it could not be controlled at all. Just one look at the chien and you could see why. There is no sweet spot at all and if I could not get it to work, how could a beginner learn to do it?
I'm surprised this is a Kickstarter, it looks homemade by an amateur, I'm currently designing my 1st ever hurdy Gurdy and it's to be 3d printed, I'm mashing together some existing plans to make my own design and I fully expect to have to redesign several parts and make it a few times, this looks like they had one go, bodged a few of the problem bits and said "that'll do"
Very good review Jimi
My main concern is that beginners usually look at the back of the keys to know where they are while they play, here it's very hard to recognize scales and patterns, and yes I totally agree with the dog not working and everything you stated.
Hey Sergio,.Good point about the backs of the keys, we did think of that. It's not obvious in the video, but we mark the 'playing' rod like a guitar fret marker on the back so you can see where you are. White for lower row and black for the upper row. We are also working on new trompette designs. The obvious idea is to raise the chien on a platform like some.gurdies do with their second chien. We'll post videos when we have them
@@GordonVadersHurdyGurdyGateway First of all, amazing that you're reacting to the feedback! But doesn't the raising of the chien on a platform like that reduce the sound even more? There was a discussion in the Gurdy Community on FB I remember that talked about that. I'm not sure how that will make the current chien more playable. I'm no pro player but it may help to make the chien a bit smaller, so that it will need less extreme kickout from the string to rattle. From the comparison with the traditional chien it looked hella big and thick. Also, I'm very curious was the metal part is for on the chien. Is it an extra sensitive adjustment part or something? Won't the nut rattle loose? Again, I'm no pro, just curious :)
@@BlitzsieLDiscoLSnow Hey Bellaen, taking feedback was always going to be part of the plan. when I said platform I meant 'ledges' like a lot of gurdies have, and yes if we do this it will have to be smaller. We'll try out lots of options. Not to criticise Jimi's review but with time and patience it is possible to make the current chien function, but clearly, it needs to be dramatically improved (or redesigned). The metal bolt on the leg, as you correctly guessed, is a means to adjust how far into the chien rest the little bridge sits this allows the player to make the chien bridge adjustable too. We haven't had rattle problems from it yet, but it's not impossible this might occur, but if did, it would a simple fix and maybe just 'something to watch for'... Like we said we'll take all of Jimi's point seriously and address them all. upwards and onwards as they say. Also, we welcome critique, we realise our marketing, as has been mentioned already, may have been a little jarring, and that wasn't our intent so apologies if we've put anyone's back up, but we are totally open to constructive dialogue.
Is the chien currently this tall because you can't sink the wheel inside the ukelele body enough? In that case putting a platform with a more conventional chien at the angle that normally the top of the body would be, could give better results. This chien looks way too bulky to be able to give a satisfying buzz imo
@@nuph thanks, yeah it was supposed to be a simple concept, we have had it working, but we'll take Jimi's advice and redesign it to make it more manageable... we agree a platform is probably the way forward...
Excellent review. Your knowledge and expertise is evident and this unbiased opinion should be very helpful to the designers and investors as well. There IS some potential.
Fantastic job on a thorough, charitable and helpful review!
Great and very detailed video 👍
oh my
Good balanced review Jimi. Thanks also for letting me see the instrument in real life. As you say, visually it is quite a nice looking instrument, but there are many details in the construction that need changing. I felt your sound recordings made the acoustic sound of the instrument sound stronger than in real life - when I heard it, it sounded much quieter and thinner than the recordings portray. As you say, as a practice instrument, this can be a good thing - like the simple practice fiddles that were popular in the past, which were deliberately designed to have no resonance or volume. Another design feature that is constraining the resonance of the instrument is that sheer mass of the tailpiece, tirant holder and keybox on the small ukelele body. These are very solidly build and heavy, and in reality prevent any chance of that little body ever resonating. If the makers can simplify this - e.g. use a $1 plastic violin tailpiece instead and get the tirant peg holder off the body - this may open up the sound somewhat. In terms of chien design, I would simply base this on the excellent and simple design of the nerdy-gurdy - this is cheap and works perfectly. No need for anything complex.
Thank you for your words, Paul.
These recordings might sound a bit more powerful compared to the instrument itself in real life because UA-cam wants it to be a bit louder. It is just the volume.
well words fail me, I knew it was badly flawed from the pictures but this is confirmation. Yes there's issues that can be improved... and I've heard from the makers several times that certain things will be fixed but this "Campbell Keychest" is beyond help. The design means that the player cannot see where they are in a rational or obvious way. The keys holes being in a line at the back view make no sense to me, somewhat like having all piano keys in a line, on one level. Doubtless the chien design will be reverted to one that works, doubtless it will be constructed correctly in time for the eventual release of production instruments but this keyboard? it was supposed to be the main selling point. It was supposed to be some kind of magical invention that will revolutionise construction meaning they could be economically made and be accessable to all. (all whilst teaching the elitists a lesson) but what do we have? a disaster, just exactly as the knowledgable among us said from day 1.
My constructive feedback would be...... stop grooming the newbies, stop criticising the knowledgeable, do fix everything, do make it reliable in every respect, do make it easy to play for a beginner, do listen to the advice and act on it immediately, do find a luthier and immediately redesign the keybox. I don't know why I bother to be honest, it's not much better than the Galloping gurdy and that is half the price, yes get a galloping gurdy folks, sod it why the hell not. ffs
What puzzles me most about the keybox is why he does not just lasercut the sides and make regular keys. The tangents would sit on a stable surface, the back of the keybox would be readable, less parts. I do not see the advantage of this system when making square holes can be no work at all.
@@Folkskelet pretty sure we all mentioned it a year ago, along with everything else
I also don't see the benefit of sticking to using round keys when they can just as well use square keys like most (if not all) luthiers do. From what I remember, the round keys were introduced because it's easier to drill round holes than measure and cut rectangular holes with the perfect size, but if a lasercutter is at hand, why not just simplify things by using the standard approach? It would make the stabilizing spacers and additional rods obsolete, it would simplify maintenance (replacing keys for example), it would provide a flat surface for the tangents and screws.. And I think it would reduce the required steps of making the keybox, thus reducing production time, which was always a big goal.
@@nigeleaton1 Yes, nearly everything in this review has been pointed out so many times before. The problems were obvious from the pictures and videos, but the maker has so far done nothing but argue with the qualified people providing the feedback. I hope he actually will fix all these issues, because it would be a pity if he sent instruments like this one to his kickstarter backers.
The issue with the back side not looking right could be solved by extending one of the rods (lower rod for lower keys, upper rod for upper keys) slightly so that it comes out of the tangent box first. And maybe even making it a different colour. That way you might get some the "normal" view and orientation back. And Neil said that in the next prototype, the spacer is not glued on to the rods anymore, so sounds more serviceable than the prototype Jimi reviewed. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
I can fully understand that people are annoyed or even angry at his way of promoting this project. The hype and the "us against them" vibe in his posts and marketing is nearly unbearable. But I try to set that aside and look at the current instrument as what it is: an early prototype. Yes, raising money with it now is risky... especially for the customers. There is lots of stuff he needs to solve before this becomes a product. But I think most of the required changes will not drive the cost of production by a huge amount. Provided he can come down from his high horse and actually accept feedback and improvement suggestions. That seems to be the main obstacle here.
Happy new year! Thanks for this review!! I actually recognise you from Castlefest 2018! Thats where my profile picture is from, i had an amazing Hurdy Gurdy group session with you, really opened my eyes at how amazing and complicated the instrument is
Hi Jordan, happy new year!
Good to hear you had great fun with the Castlefest session :) Are you planning to pick up the hurdy gurdy yourself?
@@elektrovolt well you were such a great instructor! Was a lot of fun and it felt really natural to play following your instructions!
And yes i would love to pick up one. Since that castlefest session i have been trying to keep my eye out for beginner stuff and saving up money to buy a reliable one that will serve me for years while i learn. Would you have any advise on where to look/start
@@Fullblownviking Thank you, that is really nice to hear! I really enjoy the moments with Stichting Draailier en Doedelzak at Castlefest too.The instrument you played is a 'Phoenix' model by Gotschy/Alexandra Betz. This is a very good beginner instrument, but there are other great options too.
As you might have heard before: a decent basic/starter instrument is rather expensive because of various reasons. I would recommend joining the Hurdy Gurdy Community on Facebook and reading this topic: facebook.com/groups/2038441566425103/permalink/2356691474600109/ . Another great video that shows some of the recommended instruments: ua-cam.com/video/3U-FE7KjaD8/v-deo.html
I would recommend taking at least a few (online) lessons to get you started.
You can always message me if you have any questions!
Thank you for taking the time to review the Gateway Gurdy. Your experience and expertise will help us improve the instrument. We agree fully that our use of the word production prototype was the incorrect... that's on us, we are new at this... we will send you the next prototype... your advice and feedback will help us greatly in our quest to improve our design... we have already made some improvements... the keys have already been upgraded to steel and the spacers and the keys are now removable. we know the axle is too long and we are working on the trompette... we will take a close look at everything you said and make improvements wherever possible... thank you for taking the time to help us and for your honest opinion... kind regards, Neil Campbell and Ed Murphy Gateway Gurdy...
The build quality looks worse than what I do at home. And I am not a carpenter or anything. If you're not able to drill holes in a straight line and with similar size, don't try to sell something you make.
like people have said building a hurdy gurdy below £500 is not easy comparing this to a £3,000 gurdy isnt wise. They have to cut corners to keep cost down.
You can plug it into an amp too? holy moly. Tho might want to install some bearings in the turning knob. This is excellent constructive feedback and testing is what its all about
cheap €12 piezo's, of course.
I always thought the review models are extra picked top processed ones... If this is the case i don't want to see the normal ones...
I believe this and the tenor model are the only ones they've built.
its a prototype... ffs
What a complete hack job. They're trying to sell these things?
It was a kickstarter campaign that concluded a few weeks ago.
They already sold quite a few of those via a Kickstarter campaign, yes.
I mean, I'll be honest, based on videos the maker had released prior to this, I really expected it to be worse. I mean, it's really bad, but I barely even expected it to work at all.
hurdy gurdys arnt easy to make they are extremely complex
Mostly balanced review of a very flawed design (I was wondering what all the kerfuffling was about on the Nerdy Gurdy Facebook group, now I get it)... for an affordable entry hg the Nerdy Gurdy has it all over this ..
Gateway Gurdy, gateway to Hell!
At 12:00 You should've also tried to do the buzzing using the same hand motions as you did with the good gurdy. It will be easy for the maker to say...see...he didn't even try to do it right...even though those who have a gurdy know you were just trying to get to to buzz at all.
What tune are you playing at 14:12?
@@TheHurdyGurdyWizard the tune is called "Mon père avait un gars lonla"
I tried to use the same buzzing on the GWG but that did not work. I tried lots of things and tried to adjust the chien but it just did not work at all. There was only one tirant position where the chien buzzed continuously and it could not be controlled at all. Just one look at the chien and you could see why. There is no sweet spot at all and if I could not get it to work, how could a beginner learn to do it?
I think that trumpette is one of the saddest things I’ve heard
I've never seen a gateway u tube that demonstrates the gateway gurdy solo and acoustic ,it's a ukulele on a stick ,and badly made!
I'm surprised this is a Kickstarter, it looks homemade by an amateur, I'm currently designing my 1st ever hurdy Gurdy and it's to be 3d printed, I'm mashing together some existing plans to make my own design and I fully expect to have to redesign several parts and make it a few times, this looks like they had one go, bodged a few of the problem bits and said "that'll do"
Only comment I have on the chien construction is WTF? Plus sounds really bad.. Wow, I am glad I don't own one, I'd have probably given up playing.
I would be too ashamed to put my name to that never mind sell it.
It sounds awful. Anyone using that as their first instrument is never going to want to continue playing any gurdy.