I think it’s called Hacking, in its finest and most archaic meaning. My hat is off to you, many will stand on your shoulders and tread in your footsteps….without falling off…
I strongly recommend putting some H2 (MQ-8) and TVOC (ENS160) sensors close to the battery. So in case of a cell failure your H2 and TVOC values will increase and in case of broken electronics the TVOC value alone will increase. The ENS160 also needs a temperature / humidity sensor for calibration (usally delivered with an AHT21).
I do like that idea. It could run off an esp32 and link back to home assistant. We have an emergency stop function in the Battery emulator so it could activate that. Or a sprinkler system
Jeez, that's unfortunate. Ideally get it fixed, perhaps a collab with another UA-camr like Buy it, Fix it. One of the issues I think you'll have with anyone fixing it is you need a battery and CAN communications to check whether it's working once they troubleshoot and make any repairs. Good luck.
Did you fill the system with glycol and put a circulation pump? The charging module definitely needs cooling because some components will probably heat up
Not so far. We’ve not had warn weather with the system yet. You’re right tho. The BMS reports 10c warmer than the cells. The charging module is only doing 12v power conversion to keep the standalone battery topped up so not much load
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan I have the same battery as you and have started to install it with a fronius gen24 10kw and I checked the cooling for the charger in the battery and I first started by running circulation in the charging module itself and note that the hoses get 50 degrees hot which probably explains your fire . Have acquired a computer cooler and a pump with a tank because it won't work without cooling
@@robertlindbom5225great work. The PCS temperature is reported by the battery. I will have to log in and find out what temps we are dealing with. With the previous poor ground the PCS was working harder. Mine feels warm to the touch when running. Water cooling is a good move. Nice one. Keep me updated
I'm hoping that it isn't completely FUBAR. The board might be toast. Without reasonable schematics and an appropriate source of parts I have reservations that hardware repair is going to be viable. That compounded with any software rev complications could be a show stopper. That said, I hope someone with the knowledge comes forward to make this great project happen.
Im my head i think I imagined one surface mounted component burnt out and an easy swap. Thats what happens when you don’t have circuit board knowledge. You think its easy for someone that does have the knowledge 😂
Loving the series. Very much planning on doing very similar. I built an electric boat using two Tesla Model 3 batteries. I totally dismantled them (not necessarily the best idea). I also ended up with a few spare packs that were dismantled for testing purposes (which I plan on using for my system). Would be great to help get you going again if I can. I've got a good amount of spares but like you say there are a lot variants when comes to TM3 hardware and software versions.
That’s really cool. How did you deal with water ingress? I almost feel an entire pack is simpler and that’s what I’m trying to show. One box with power out.
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan It's definitely simpler and absolutely the way to go. Mine are already in bits so I've got to take the hard route unfortunately. I did learn an awful lot about them though pulling them apart (long and short is don't ever do it! keep them in one piece). I ended up having to swap components between EU models, US models, dealing with different software versions, very uphill at times. It's so great to see the work that has been done by Dala and community. Inspiring stuff. Water ingress is dealt with by the four cells of each pack being rehomed in Aluminium cases that form part of the hull. It was a lot of very time consuming work. Those cases house water leak sensors (primarily for coolant leak detection) and the same automatic water purge valves that will be fitted to the 'Penthouse' underside end of your battery. We even installed CCTV cameras in the battery pack so you can do a visual inspection. I definitely have a spare PCS module, however mine will be an older 12v lead acid version. From my experience though swapping PCS's was amongst the least problematic of swaps.
I hope you've solved the issue with your PCS - I forgot to mention after watching your efforts to bypass the Tesla HV controller and drive the main contactors with solid state relays that you don't actually require the PCS (even installed or connected) to get the main contactors to close using the rest of the tesla system as is. But... how Dala's software copes with the missing PCS canbus messages I have no idea - but the Tesla HV controller doesn't actually care and will happily engage the HV contactors if the right conditions are met. (but this may no longer be the case with more modern software versions)
Love what you are doing Battery Man with this great project, you are inspirational, a massive thank you 🙌 I think it is wonderful for all that you are doing and being courageous with it, especially using PVs in England, does the sun even shine there 😂 I am from the sun burnt country, Australia so usually there is no lack of sunlight here 🌞 Damn, once the smoke comes out of the wires, surface mounted devices etc, you just need to capture the smoke and put it back in lol 😂 Sorry, was a bad attempt at humour. Hopefully you find someone who can get that board fixed. I am a koalafried Elec technician/fitter and I have worked with some very smart tradies that I have seen diagnose and repair generator set command modules, down to component level. Also, I have worked with some perhaps less technical technicians that I have seen fix boards by working out what that something on a board is meant to do and then making a work around fot it, such as wiring in relays and the likes. I personally am not that good at fixing these sort of things even with a wiring diagram, however, if it was purely up to me to fix, I would start by begging Tesla to let me know what that part of the board does and then if they provide the info, try to make a work around. If they did not help and again it was purley up to me, I would de-solder the individual burnt components, test them (as many around that area as possisble, replace any faulty ones, re-install everything, have a fire fighting gear on hand, pray to god then re-commission. My apologies if I underestimated the magnitude of the damaged components. There are perhaps ICs and the likes that have been damaged. All the best with this great home flattery system, am hoping and I am quitely confident you will adapt and overcome these little hurdles 🙌🙏
You are right. Solar in the uk is brave given the amount of overcast days we have. Part of the reason for the battery. Take up little space and can be filled with cheap electric and sold for more. For the right person a ‘what happened to this board’ video could be pretty cool! My skills go as far as ‘attempting’ to replace bits that look blown so I know this one is 2 far for me
I think the important thing is to try to understand what went wrong during the fuse change procedure for the LV charge circuit to have burned-up like that. Hard to say how bad the damage is without the area properly cleaned. Doing that should help pinpoint what exactly fried, but the damage could go much further than what's visible, and the multi-layer pcb could have internal track damage too. Not good.
Yes. I’m leaning toward a replacement board. I had been disconnecting what shouldn’t have been disconnected and had a poor connection when it was connected. So it looks to be entirely my fault. Live and learn.
They are rubbish. Perished in less than a year. I won’t be recommending them. Class 0 is what you’re after. With normal gloves over the top to protect them.
Never remove the load from the HV-to-LV converter once it's running... you always need to keep SOME load where the 16v battery belongs. Un-loading a PWM converter that expects to always have an attached load can cause them to enter a "unknown" condition... it may be able to correct for it in time to prevent the smoke from escaping, or it may not... I would recommend a constant Voltage load capable of maybe 4-5 Amps at 16 Volts. Lacking that, I would connect a 100,000 uF 35V (or higher) Electrolytic Capacitor where the 16V battery connects. That way when you disconnect the 12v battery after turning the Pack On, the capacitor will allow the Converter load to "gracefully" decrease - instead of falling to Zero instantly. Better yet would be a stack of Supercapacitors equal to at least 20V... then you never need to disconnect it... and it will probably maintain enough energy to turn the Pack On the next time.
You may already know about Damien Maguire? Johannes Hubner? Open inverter forum? There might be some crossover between EV home batteries and people converting cars to EVs. Even if it's just sources of parts? Do you think using a 12V battery on a pack expecting 16V may have been the root cause?
Those are some good options thank you. I’ve discovered that there is a whine from the PCS when there is a poor connection to the main 12-16v input / output. I had been using a set of jump leads on the negative side and it turns out they are shot. Those cables have been replaced with the permanent cables and no whine. It’s entirely possible that the PCS was having a poor ground causing all sorts of issues. Just highlights the need to check everything. All will be revealed in the next video.
I wonder about the 12 v starter battery being too low voltage. Especially if you let it run down, they go down to 9 or 10 volts when flat. The power circuitry would need to gradually increase current and that might have overloaded some components or traces. Did you charge the starter battery at all? A DC-DC converter set to 16 v might be a good replacement for a 16 v battery. Better yet an actual Tesla low voltage battery... Also the connection and disconnection of it live probably wasn't good for it. A capacitor staying connected would at least give it the voltage float it expected. I am not an electrician. Just speculating.
This is a total longshot - and there may be plenty of reasons this isn't possible. But since Tesla batteries are Tesla batteries, would be possible to be open to using the PCS equivalent part from a bad Tesla Powerwall? Not sure these parts will be any more readily available but perhaps it will double the possibilities for the components to get the job done. Best of luck in solving this. Cheering for you to get this fully over the finish line!
OK. I can see we have a massive issue here, and clearly it needs to be addressed straight away. Where are the flip flops? 🤔 Seriously though, keep at it, I can say I can help (without lying) but I am still very interested in following along.
You talk about using the 12v output from the Stark unit to power the BMS... but are you SURE that the Stark can output enough Current to run the BMS??? Wait... are you thinking that the terminals marked +12V is an output?? It's not, it is the DC Input to the CMR... Nominally +12, but can be from +5V up to +16V. All of its Outputs are the same voltage as the DC Input... if you input 16v, it will output 16v.
Currently wired the BMS as the same input as the stark board. But the output the first pins to the right of the input should be able to be used. Then if the Stark looses power so will the BMS and the contactors will open
I love the series and think that recording your trials and tribulations is great. I don’t like that you have gone full A-hole click bait on this title and thumbnail. You clearly appreciate EV’s but decided that a small (seemingly self inflicted) pcb burnout bust equal an EV fire! Not ok
I was kinda being ironic to all those that think EVs have more fires. Hoping to reach a larger audience and bring in new viewers. There are only so many pics of me stood in front of the battery I can use as the thumbnail. But it’s very much noted that the thumbnail doesn’t appeal to you. Thanks for letting me know
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan I appreciate the response. I know I am only one comment and one viewer but I guess it triggered me as I think if I wasn’t already a subscriber, that comment would put me off watching your other videos.
Absolutely brilliant series to watch so far. Thank you for taking the time to document all the wins and fails. This is engineering at its finest
Thank you 🙏
I think it’s called Hacking, in its finest and most archaic meaning. My hat is off to you, many will stand on your shoulders and tread in your footsteps….without falling off…
You could also break down this battery for modules and get a new one for your wall.
That has crossed my mind. Mainly out of curiosity to break the pack apart
How many cells in series in the battery ?
108 cells. LFP the earlier packs came with 106 cells
I strongly recommend putting some H2 (MQ-8) and TVOC (ENS160) sensors close to the battery. So in case of a cell failure your H2 and TVOC values will increase and in case of broken electronics the TVOC value alone will increase. The ENS160 also needs a temperature / humidity sensor for calibration (usally delivered with an AHT21).
I do like that idea. It could run off an esp32 and link back to home assistant. We have an emergency stop function in the Battery emulator so it could activate that. Or a sprinkler system
Jeez, that's unfortunate. Ideally get it fixed, perhaps a collab with another UA-camr like Buy it, Fix it. One of the issues I think you'll have with anyone fixing it is you need a battery and CAN communications to check whether it's working once they troubleshoot and make any repairs. Good luck.
Yeah it sort of makes a repair a little complicated. Subbed to Buy it Fix it
Did you fill the system with glycol and put a circulation pump?
The charging module definitely needs cooling because some components will probably heat up
Not so far. We’ve not had warn weather with the system yet. You’re right tho. The BMS reports 10c warmer than the cells. The charging module is only doing 12v power conversion to keep the standalone battery topped up so not much load
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan
I have the same battery as you and have started to install it with a fronius gen24 10kw and I checked the cooling for the charger in the battery and I first started by running circulation in the charging module itself and note that the hoses get 50 degrees hot which probably explains your fire . Have acquired a computer cooler and a pump with a tank because it won't work without cooling
@@robertlindbom5225great work. The PCS temperature is reported by the battery. I will have to log in and find out what temps we are dealing with. With the previous poor ground the PCS was working harder. Mine feels warm to the touch when running. Water cooling is a good move. Nice one. Keep me updated
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan 100% sure you will burn it again if you don't cool it.
@ you’ve set me on a mission. Thank you
Mr. Musk would you be so kind and send a new PCS to this gentleman.
😂😂😂😂 He has more platforms to contact him on the never before
I'm hoping that it isn't completely FUBAR. The board might be toast. Without reasonable schematics and an appropriate source of parts I have reservations that hardware repair is going to be viable. That compounded with any software rev complications could be a show stopper.
That said, I hope someone with the knowledge comes forward to make this great project happen.
Im my head i think I imagined one surface mounted component burnt out and an easy swap. Thats what happens when you don’t have circuit board knowledge. You think its easy for someone that does have the knowledge 😂
I hate it when the Magic smoke escapes..... Good Luck
Unless you’re watching a photonicinduction video, right? 😂😂
Loving the series. Very much planning on doing very similar. I built an electric boat using two Tesla Model 3 batteries. I totally dismantled them (not necessarily the best idea). I also ended up with a few spare packs that were dismantled for testing purposes (which I plan on using for my system). Would be great to help get you going again if I can. I've got a good amount of spares but like you say there are a lot variants when comes to TM3 hardware and software versions.
That’s really cool. How did you deal with water ingress?
I almost feel an entire pack is simpler and that’s what I’m trying to show. One box with power out.
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan It's definitely simpler and absolutely the way to go. Mine are already in bits so I've got to take the hard route unfortunately. I did learn an awful lot about them though pulling them apart (long and short is don't ever do it! keep them in one piece). I ended up having to swap components between EU models, US models, dealing with different software versions, very uphill at times. It's so great to see the work that has been done by Dala and community. Inspiring stuff.
Water ingress is dealt with by the four cells of each pack being rehomed in Aluminium cases that form part of the hull. It was a lot of very time consuming work. Those cases house water leak sensors (primarily for coolant leak detection) and the same automatic water purge valves that will be fitted to the 'Penthouse' underside end of your battery. We even installed CCTV cameras in the battery pack so you can do a visual inspection.
I definitely have a spare PCS module, however mine will be an older 12v lead acid version. From my experience though swapping PCS's was amongst the least problematic of swaps.
I hope you've solved the issue with your PCS - I forgot to mention after watching your efforts to bypass the Tesla HV controller and drive the main contactors with solid state relays that you don't actually require the PCS (even installed or connected) to get the main contactors to close using the rest of the tesla system as is. But... how Dala's software copes with the missing PCS canbus messages I have no idea - but the Tesla HV controller doesn't actually care and will happily engage the HV contactors if the right conditions are met. (but this may no longer be the case with more modern software versions)
Love what you are doing Battery Man with this great project, you are inspirational, a massive thank you 🙌 I think it is wonderful for all that you are doing and being courageous with it, especially using PVs in England, does the sun even shine there 😂 I am from the sun burnt country, Australia so usually there is no lack of sunlight here 🌞
Damn, once the smoke comes out of the wires, surface mounted devices etc, you just need to capture the smoke and put it back in lol 😂 Sorry, was a bad attempt at humour.
Hopefully you find someone who can get that board fixed. I am a koalafried Elec technician/fitter and I have worked with some very smart tradies that I have seen diagnose and repair generator set command modules, down to component level. Also, I have worked with some perhaps less technical technicians that I have seen fix boards by working out what that something on a board is meant to do and then making a work around fot it, such as wiring in relays and the likes. I personally am not that good at fixing these sort of things even with a wiring diagram, however, if it was purely up to me to fix, I would start by begging Tesla to let me know what that part of the board does and then if they provide the info, try to make a work around. If they did not help and again it was purley up to me, I would de-solder the individual burnt components, test them (as many around that area as possisble, replace any faulty ones, re-install everything, have a fire fighting gear on hand, pray to god then re-commission. My apologies if I underestimated the magnitude of the damaged components. There are perhaps ICs and the likes that have been damaged. All the best with this great home flattery system, am hoping and I am quitely confident you will adapt and overcome these little hurdles 🙌🙏
You are right. Solar in the uk is brave given the amount of overcast days we have. Part of the reason for the battery. Take up little space and can be filled with cheap electric and sold for more.
For the right person a ‘what happened to this board’ video could be pretty cool! My skills go as far as ‘attempting’ to replace bits that look blown so I know this one is 2 far for me
I'm really enjoying the vids and progress. I'm sure that grey hair wasn't there when you started 😅
😂😂 what grey hair 😂
I think the important thing is to try to understand what went wrong during the fuse change procedure for the LV charge circuit to have burned-up like that. Hard to say how bad the damage is without the area properly cleaned. Doing that should help pinpoint what exactly fried, but the damage could go much further than what's visible, and the multi-layer pcb could have internal track damage too. Not good.
Yes. I’m leaning toward a replacement board. I had been disconnecting what shouldn’t have been disconnected and had a poor connection when it was connected. So it looks to be entirely my fault. Live and learn.
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan Bad ground maybe, whole bunch of current down a wrong path. Hope you get it figured.
@@UCCLdIk6R5ECGtaGm7oqO-TQ I’ll make sure to clean the area and make a post showing the area
Love the series. Thanks!
Where did you got those electrical protecting glows? What model is it?
They are rubbish. Perished in less than a year. I won’t be recommending them. Class 0 is what you’re after. With normal gloves over the top to protect them.
Never remove the load from the HV-to-LV converter once it's running... you always need to keep SOME load where the 16v battery belongs. Un-loading a PWM converter that expects to always have an attached load can cause them to enter a "unknown" condition... it may be able to correct for it in time to prevent the smoke from escaping, or it may not...
I would recommend a constant Voltage load capable of maybe 4-5 Amps at 16 Volts.
Lacking that, I would connect a 100,000 uF 35V (or higher) Electrolytic Capacitor where the 16V battery connects. That way when you disconnect the 12v battery after turning the Pack On, the capacitor will allow the Converter load to "gracefully" decrease - instead of falling to Zero instantly.
Better yet would be a stack of Supercapacitors equal to at least 20V... then you never need to disconnect it... and it will probably maintain enough energy to turn the Pack On the next time.
Lessons learnt. Thanks for the comment. Connecting a load and keeping it connected is definably the solution. You’ve given a few options
this guy very good at repairing tesla components
ELECTROREP
The Old Chapel, 69 Primrose Hill, Kings Langley WD4 8HX
Thank you
You may already know about Damien Maguire? Johannes Hubner? Open inverter forum?
There might be some crossover between EV home batteries and people converting cars to EVs.
Even if it's just sources of parts?
Do you think using a 12V battery on a pack expecting 16V may have been the root cause?
Those are some good options thank you. I’ve discovered that there is a whine from the PCS when there is a poor connection to the main 12-16v input / output. I had been using a set of jump leads on the negative side and it turns out they are shot. Those cables have been replaced with the permanent cables and no whine. It’s entirely possible that the PCS was having a poor ground causing all sorts of issues. Just highlights the need to check everything. All will be revealed in the next video.
I was about to to say the same thing. Damien Maguire. Open Inverter forum. This type of problem is totally what he does.
I wonder about the 12 v starter battery being too low voltage. Especially if you let it run down, they go down to 9 or 10 volts when flat. The power circuitry would need to gradually increase current and that might have overloaded some components or traces. Did you charge the starter battery at all? A DC-DC converter set to 16 v might be a good replacement for a 16 v battery. Better yet an actual Tesla low voltage battery... Also the connection and disconnection of it live probably wasn't good for it. A capacitor staying connected would at least give it the voltage float it expected.
I am not an electrician. Just speculating.
I contracted someone for my battery two years ago and it's still not quite done. So I'm not criticizing you.
I know does seem slow
Good luck! Hope to replicate your (eventually) success one day!
This is a total longshot - and there may be plenty of reasons this isn't possible. But since Tesla batteries are Tesla batteries, would be possible to be open to using the PCS equivalent part from a bad Tesla Powerwall? Not sure these parts will be any more readily available but perhaps it will double the possibilities for the components to get the job done. Best of luck in solving this. Cheering for you to get this fully over the finish line!
A used EV part is defo one option with a fair price tag but would have the project right back on track
OK. I can see we have a massive issue here, and clearly it needs to be addressed straight away.
Where are the flip flops? 🤔
Seriously though, keep at it, I can say I can help (without lying) but I am still very interested in following along.
If I was going to learn juggling it would be with flip flops. Just saying
Damien maguire on youtube, can sniff a tesla can a mile off he's your man !
Thank you
Feel free to make a new video when you figure out what went wrong with PCS
You talk about using the 12v output from the Stark unit to power the BMS... but are you SURE that the Stark can output enough Current to run the BMS???
Wait... are you thinking that the terminals marked +12V is an output?? It's not, it is the DC Input to the CMR... Nominally +12, but can be from +5V up to +16V.
All of its Outputs are the same voltage as the DC Input... if you input 16v, it will output 16v.
Currently wired the BMS as the same input as the stark board. But the output the first pins to the right of the input should be able to be used. Then if the Stark looses power so will the BMS and the contactors will open
I love the series and think that recording your trials and tribulations is great.
I don’t like that you have gone full A-hole click bait on this title and thumbnail.
You clearly appreciate EV’s but decided that a small (seemingly self inflicted) pcb burnout bust equal an EV fire!
Not ok
I was kinda being ironic to all those that think EVs have more fires. Hoping to reach a larger audience and bring in new viewers. There are only so many pics of me stood in front of the battery I can use as the thumbnail.
But it’s very much noted that the thumbnail doesn’t appeal to you. Thanks for letting me know
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan I appreciate the response.
I know I am only one comment and one viewer but I guess it triggered me as I think if I wasn’t already a subscriber, that comment would put me off watching your other videos.
Speak to Cory Mac
Noted
I wonder if @jerryrigeverything has one left over from his hummer build?
I didn’t realise he used Tesla drivetrain
@@TheOfficialBatteryMan He used all 16 Tesla battery modules from whole 100kWh S/X pack and made custom boxes