I really can’t agree with the whole “nomad trooper is a better class than paladin” argument, because while sure, 1-2 range and weapon triangle control are relatively weak boons in fe6, Nomad troopers are stuck at E swords after promoting, meaning they’re probably not going to have decent 1 range combat for awhile, so no strong enemy phasing beyond niche scenarios they can enemy phase with a bow. They’ll be stuck with just iron and slim swords for 25-17 rounds of sword combat, assuming they double every time. Then they can use steel swords, Iron blades, and armorslayers, which is a little better, but at this point the best combat units are primarily using Killer Lances so if we want Sue/Shin to have as good 1 range combat, they’ll need another 17-25 rounds of combat with swords to catch up and use a Killing Edge. This ultimately means that while yes, they do have 1 range combat like a Paladin, they require 34-50 rounds of combat with a sword before their combat is comparable to a Paladin, which is hard to fit in because they’re going to still be mainly using bows. Plus you get your first Orion’s bolt 2 chapters before Miledy and 4 chapters before Percival(3 and 6 with Gaidens) who are going to be carrying so hard it can be difficult to squeeze in some time for Sue to enemy phase with an iron sword. Ultimately I just think that it’s hard for a nomadic trooper to compete with a paladin’s strong out the gate enemy phase combat, so they’re going to be primarily focused on bows, which is still good but more niche then the universal utility of someone like Percival or a trained Christmas cav.
Worth noting that on normal the gap between Sue and Sin is far less wide bc Sin doesn't get hard mode bonuses there and Sue's extra availability means she gets to killer bow faster
Yeah Sue in normal mode will be much better than Shin by the time you get him if you use her. She even has availability on top of that contributing to one of the most hardest chapters in the game ch7. If HM bonuses weren't a thing she'd basically take his spot.
the triangle strategy music starting when you said yes is so fitting. It's basically: "Sue is good, play the epic music" I'm the weird guy who thinks Sacae> Illia. It was so funny during the forever draft 2 no one drafting any nomads to avoid Sacae. XD I think Sacae with Delphy Shield Melady, a good promoted armor knight (Bors or Barth) for high defense and Sue-Shin combo. Gel only has the light brand, so Shue-Shin B support helps a lot against him without the critical hit from the light brand. Monke is another story, because you want to finish him in one turn to avoid the ambush spawn. I think having good bow users let you attack him more because of his location. But you can get unlucky and miss most your attacks. 23:09: the "I made a video to justify making one row each for b and c tier"
Wait this is so wild, I’m playing through the game for the first time completely blind and loooooove Sue! She’s been super duper helpful to me to the point where I didn’t even use Shin.
I love Sue, and ill be real i've done even stinkier slower strats with ch6 involving a def blessed alen to trade spots with marcus and both remain unequipped in doorways for sue to steadily gain every single drop of exp. It was all worth it for double digit str sue annihilation :)
I honestly want to see a romhacker fix the "playable reinforcements get HM bonusses"-bug because the balance is a bit scuffed because of it. Sure, it helps some units that really need it, like Fir, but it also creates some overly tremendous people and further invalidates others that do not get the boost. The boost also being relevant for the midgame-discussion because Sin getting it is what overshadows Sue. If that is good or bad depends, I guess.
I actually went to Sacae on purpose because I didn't want to use the pegasus knights due to them were made of paper, but I've also been informed that I'm a crazy person so take that how you will
My opinion on the sacae route when using nomads: When I played hard mode I used shin and went to sacae, he was extremely useful in those maps as nomads do well against nomads So by using either one or both, as long as they aren't stat screwed they will be able to contribute a lot (especially for those who gave them a mutual support)
When I went the Sacae route, I had a similar experience, and Sin utterly carried my ass. But I found this didn’t really apply to Sue, who was just too frail and so much weaker in comparison. Did mine just get unlucky?
Great video! I think I advocated in favor of Sue in your FE6 tier list video, but since then, I’ve kind of wrapped back to high C tier for her, where you originally put her. She’s a fun unit with a good stretch of usability, and the potential to go beyond, but as a unit who is primarily combat focused, her stats are just too low to be consistent without some heavy attention (like that odd yet pretty cool chapter 6 grind). Funnily enough, in past runs I’d always avoid Sacae by just not using Sin, since I’d always use Sue in the short term and then be too afraid to even put anything else into another Nomad, regardless of how good they were. Probably unnecessary since Shanna is my favorite unit and I always use her a ton, but the Sacae fear is real.
I like Sue as a character and she is fun to use, but I do often opt out of using her explicitly to avoid Sacae. :( she’s definitely outclassed by Shin, but I always like that Fire Emblem lets you try whatever units you want and you’ll probably see some success.
Re: The Japanese version of Ridersbane, this is true, and I didn't even think about it when doing my Japanese runs of FE6 and 7: The Japanese name of the weapon is changed from Knight Killer to Horse Killer. With Rapier as well, the Japanese was changed from "Knights" to "Horse-mounted (Riders)" from 6 to 7. So it's less a "bug" and more a very intentional design decision.
My only issue with Sue is that I find sacae so unfun that I am terrified of accidently raising her too high. Also I feel like shin is just alot better then her in alot of ways. If sacae didn't exist I'd used her more cause she is kinda swag
I will say about the fe6 weapon triangle point from the beginning of the video, you have to consider that the majority of the enemies in the game, especially the more threatening ones, are lance or sword enemies, and especially later in the game, it's worth taking 1 less damage, doing 6 more damage, and getting 10 more avoid in exchange for 5 or so less hit rate. And while the hit comparison holds up for iron weapons, the best late game weapons are the killer weapons, and the killer lance has only 5 less hit than the killing edge, meaning the hit ratio is usually in favor of the killer lance, and you get more damage as a bonus. There's also the factor to consider that Cavs have way longer to build sword rank than nomads who only get it on promotion, which they will most likely only be able to promote on the tail end of the axe-heavy portion of the game.
Even if you were to rather meanly say shes a budget shin, thats still pretty good and with fe6 being the way that it is especially early,, sue is definitely better than she seems to be credited for
That one paper mario TTYD song that you used is extremely awesome and has immaculate vibes. Not the point of the video but it is the point of life I think 🤔.
Honestly i think we're too nice to Sue. If you look at what she does wothout investment it's basically about on par with somebody like Trec, as they both are filler mounted units who rescue-drop and do chip damage. Sue has the bonus of chunking chapter 7 wyverns, which is nice, but at the end of the day it's a sum total of like 3 enemies she can take a bite out of, and besides Theas squad the next fliers who you actually want to kill are in chapter 13. She also is somewhat suspect as a filler cav because her bulk is so low. As an example base level Sue can get one-rounded by chapter 9 steel axe users if they have a slightly above average strength roll, so you have to be very careful with how you position her compared to someone like Trec and Noah. She also struggles with hit rates in the western isles before she gets her promotion. This is the point where training is easier than ever because your swordies can exploit triangle attack, but Sues only high might weapon, the steel bow, has 65 hit. The iron bow fares better, but against a 5 defense opponent she does 6 damage with it, and even against weighed down axe-users she is very inconsistent at doubling. She also gets weighed down by everything besides iron and short bows, even after promotion, so with only +1 speed on promotion she really needs to hit her speed procs to keep up. Compared to the relative training arcs of other units Sue has a very long road to level 10. Her promotion mostly solves this and puts her on track to excellence, but I think we have to penalize her for necessitating a lot of babying even in one of the game's easiest stretches to fulfill a decent but not exclusive role in the long-term. Sin already covers your most essential nomad needs, while Klein joins with near-Dayan level bases at the cost of a mount and iron swords. If anybody is underrated on the tier list I'd say it's Noah, but that's a story for another day.
I talked about it in my "all fe games ranked" video so I'd watch that if you want the long answer. Short answer is badly designed maps, hoardes of tedious enemies, and unfun unit design
Wanted to mention that for CH7 Wolt can make use of supports really well. His Oce affinity gives him hit no matter what, and because Roy, Allen and Marcus all give hit it’s not unreasonable for him to have +15 hit at that point in the game from a few support partners. That being said in practice I’ve found that the extra hit is STILL unreliable and is so limited, not only does Wolt have to move his tiny feet but he has to be nearby a lose condition and others when fighting the most dangerous units in the game at that point. Sue’s mobility is so much more useful here, but Wolt clears Dorothy IMO
@9:40 I think the intended mechanic is that supports are an added bonus to discover rather than something to grind for. This is why I don't support grind.
It's hard to say, because there's things like Karel and fe7 Ranult, which feel impossible to get without grinding, due to game mechanics. I just think gba supports are dumb
Also about Ilia. I honestly don't see either or being worse than the other if you are playing blind on a first playthrough without a guide. Ilia is only way easier with a guide I think. The fog of war and Ballistae is frustrating.
On the topic of revisiting fe6 units on your tier list, do you think you might have overrated lilina? I'm no binding blade expert but I usually see her a lot lower on most people tier lists compared to where you had her, around C or even D tier units. I don't really have much experience though and it probably isn't worth another video but I am curious of your thoughts on it since I never found much reason to use her over lugh apart from favoritism, but my fe6 knowledge is a lot more scarce
Nah, Lilina is fine where she is. I talked about it in my tier list, but high magic and automatic roy support are both valuable. She and Lugh are "magic vs speed" but her speed is good enough to double armors anyway. Lugh's only advantage is joining early, but his magic stat is so bad.
hay can you please do a video on why shadow dragon oguma is underrated. I personally use him as a hunter every time I play because he has more move and damage tham all the over archers even with an iron bow, and with my playstyle I usually don't give doga any exp because I just send jagen down to maipulate the enemies and wait for them to come to me one chapter one, and a base speed doga does not double anything unless he's a merk.
In the middle of an Ironman right now. In 6 levels Sue got +2 hp, +1 speed, no strength, and 6 luck/skill, so… I’m gonna leave her on the bench for now.
i always heavily invest in sue and shin and still manage to go to Ilia because I'm also heavily investing in shanna and tate. does no one else do this?? all 4 of them are 8 mov sword units with 1-2 range. am i insane??👀 Ilia is just so much better with 2 nomadic troopers shooting down the metric ton of flying enemies. i actually enjoy the Ilia arc because of them. they tend to be in support range very often and their affinities make them pretty deadly and dodgy in the late game.
She's pretty Top tier Also penalizing a unit bc some people don't like the route they can *potentially* make you go down is uh Definitely the consensus the community has made of all time glad there is some pushback on it
Nomads seem more impressive than Paladins for sure in FE6, but I don't believe they're better. It's just that Sin is better than any cav you have to train, but not better than Perceval mind you, cause you mentioned only Marcus. I'm sold on what you said about Sue though. Certainly in Normal mode she's arguably a better choice than Sin even.
Some of these points are irrelevant as someone who will never play fe6 hm and just wants to know if sue is worth Anyway im going to go bring sue to endgame wielding both mulagir and durandal
The shadow siren/doopliss battle theme was loud and distracting, if you use it again in the future please turn it down. It's a high energy distracting song that completely overshadowed your monologue in this video.
Sue would be better if she and Dorothy could be bow girlfriends
I really can’t agree with the whole “nomad trooper is a better class than paladin” argument, because while sure, 1-2 range and weapon triangle control are relatively weak boons in fe6, Nomad troopers are stuck at E swords after promoting, meaning they’re probably not going to have decent 1 range combat for awhile, so no strong enemy phasing beyond niche scenarios they can enemy phase with a bow. They’ll be stuck with just iron and slim swords for 25-17 rounds of sword combat, assuming they double every time. Then they can use steel swords, Iron blades, and armorslayers, which is a little better, but at this point the best combat units are primarily using Killer Lances so if we want Sue/Shin to have as good 1 range combat, they’ll need another 17-25 rounds of combat with swords to catch up and use a Killing Edge. This ultimately means that while yes, they do have 1 range combat like a Paladin, they require 34-50 rounds of combat with a sword before their combat is comparable to a Paladin, which is hard to fit in because they’re going to still be mainly using bows. Plus you get your first Orion’s bolt 2 chapters before Miledy and 4 chapters before Percival(3 and 6 with Gaidens) who are going to be carrying so hard it can be difficult to squeeze in some time for Sue to enemy phase with an iron sword.
Ultimately I just think that it’s hard for a nomadic trooper to compete with a paladin’s strong out the gate enemy phase combat, so they’re going to be primarily focused on bows, which is still good but more niche then the universal utility of someone like Percival or a trained Christmas cav.
Nomads have 1 or 2 range, which unfortunately for Dani, is not what we mean when we say 1-2 range.
Worth noting that on normal the gap between Sue and Sin is far less wide bc Sin doesn't get hard mode bonuses there and Sue's extra availability means she gets to killer bow faster
Another sue w
Yeah Sue in normal mode will be much better than Shin by the time you get him if you use her. She even has availability on top of that contributing to one of the most hardest chapters in the game ch7. If HM bonuses weren't a thing she'd basically take his spot.
Stahl catching stray bullets in an FE6 video, beautiful
Stahl moment
Should have been called Silber, then he would be good.
the triangle strategy music starting when you said yes is so fitting. It's basically: "Sue is good, play the epic music"
I'm the weird guy who thinks Sacae> Illia. It was so funny during the forever draft 2 no one drafting any nomads to avoid Sacae. XD
I think Sacae with Delphy Shield Melady, a good promoted armor knight (Bors or Barth) for high defense and Sue-Shin combo.
Gel only has the light brand, so Shue-Shin B support helps a lot against him without the critical hit from the light brand.
Monke is another story, because you want to finish him in one turn to avoid the ambush spawn. I think having good bow users let you attack him more because of his location. But you can get unlucky and miss most your attacks.
23:09: the "I made a video to justify making one row each for b and c tier"
Wait this is so wild, I’m playing through the game for the first time completely blind and loooooove Sue! She’s been super duper helpful to me to the point where I didn’t even use Shin.
I love Sue, and ill be real i've done even stinkier slower strats with ch6 involving a def blessed alen to trade spots with marcus and both remain unequipped in doorways for sue to steadily gain every single drop of exp. It was all worth it for double digit str sue annihilation :)
I love ALL Dani Doyle videos!!!! ❤
Ok wait a minute, why is Chad level 20 in the stock footage? He took on that wyvern surprisingly well lol.
I honestly want to see a romhacker fix the "playable reinforcements get HM bonusses"-bug because the balance is a bit scuffed because of it. Sure, it helps some units that really need it, like Fir, but it also creates some overly tremendous people and further invalidates others that do not get the boost.
The boost also being relevant for the midgame-discussion because Sin getting it is what overshadows Sue. If that is good or bad depends, I guess.
I actually went to Sacae on purpose because I didn't want to use the pegasus knights due to them were made of paper, but I've also been informed that I'm a crazy person so take that how you will
My opinion on the sacae route when using nomads:
When I played hard mode I used shin and went to sacae, he was extremely useful in those maps as nomads do well against nomads
So by using either one or both, as long as they aren't stat screwed they will be able to contribute a lot (especially for those who gave them a mutual support)
When I went the Sacae route, I had a similar experience, and Sin utterly carried my ass. But I found this didn’t really apply to Sue, who was just too frail and so much weaker in comparison. Did mine just get unlucky?
Great video!
I think I advocated in favor of Sue in your FE6 tier list video, but since then, I’ve kind of wrapped back to high C tier for her, where you originally put her. She’s a fun unit with a good stretch of usability, and the potential to go beyond, but as a unit who is primarily combat focused, her stats are just too low to be consistent without some heavy attention (like that odd yet pretty cool chapter 6 grind).
Funnily enough, in past runs I’d always avoid Sacae by just not using Sin, since I’d always use Sue in the short term and then be too afraid to even put anything else into another Nomad, regardless of how good they were. Probably unnecessary since Shanna is my favorite unit and I always use her a ton, but the Sacae fear is real.
I like Sue as a character and she is fun to use, but I do often opt out of using her explicitly to avoid Sacae. :( she’s definitely outclassed by Shin, but I always like that Fire Emblem lets you try whatever units you want and you’ll probably see some success.
Re: The Japanese version of Ridersbane, this is true, and I didn't even think about it when doing my Japanese runs of FE6 and 7: The Japanese name of the weapon is changed from Knight Killer to Horse Killer. With Rapier as well, the Japanese was changed from "Knights" to "Horse-mounted (Riders)" from 6 to 7. So it's less a "bug" and more a very intentional design decision.
My only issue with Sue is that I find sacae so unfun that I am terrified of accidently raising her too high. Also I feel like shin is just alot better then her in alot of ways. If sacae didn't exist I'd used her more cause she is kinda swag
I will say about the fe6 weapon triangle point from the beginning of the video, you have to consider that the majority of the enemies in the game, especially the more threatening ones, are lance or sword enemies, and especially later in the game, it's worth taking 1 less damage, doing 6 more damage, and getting 10 more avoid in exchange for 5 or so less hit rate. And while the hit comparison holds up for iron weapons, the best late game weapons are the killer weapons, and the killer lance has only 5 less hit than the killing edge, meaning the hit ratio is usually in favor of the killer lance, and you get more damage as a bonus. There's also the factor to consider that Cavs have way longer to build sword rank than nomads who only get it on promotion, which they will most likely only be able to promote on the tail end of the axe-heavy portion of the game.
Even if you were to rather meanly say shes a budget shin, thats still pretty good and with fe6 being the way that it is especially early,, sue is definitely better than she seems to be credited for
Yo whats this song at 3:00 again? its so familiar
That is "Land Loved by the Goddess" from three houses
@@DaniDoyle ty
My first playthrough my vanessa took a thundertome crit and I just kept playing until I got Tana and gave her that first whip
I ment to comment this on a video about tana
I would love to see you tackle Tethys. As shes the only dancer I've ever seen people have negative opinions about
The only negative opinions I've heard of Tethys is her support with Artur (Which, yeah, don't watch that shit)
That one paper mario TTYD song that you used is extremely awesome and has immaculate vibes. Not the point of the video but it is the point of life I think 🤔.
Honestly i think we're too nice to Sue. If you look at what she does wothout investment it's basically about on par with somebody like Trec, as they both are filler mounted units who rescue-drop and do chip damage. Sue has the bonus of chunking chapter 7 wyverns, which is nice, but at the end of the day it's a sum total of like 3 enemies she can take a bite out of, and besides Theas squad the next fliers who you actually want to kill are in chapter 13. She also is somewhat suspect as a filler cav because her bulk is so low. As an example base level Sue can get one-rounded by chapter 9 steel axe users if they have a slightly above average strength roll, so you have to be very careful with how you position her compared to someone like Trec and Noah. She also struggles with hit rates in the western isles before she gets her promotion. This is the point where training is easier than ever because your swordies can exploit triangle attack, but Sues only high might weapon, the steel bow, has 65 hit. The iron bow fares better, but against a 5 defense opponent she does 6 damage with it, and even against weighed down axe-users she is very inconsistent at doubling. She also gets weighed down by everything besides iron and short bows, even after promotion, so with only +1 speed on promotion she really needs to hit her speed procs to keep up. Compared to the relative training arcs of other units Sue has a very long road to level 10. Her promotion mostly solves this and puts her on track to excellence, but I think we have to penalize her for necessitating a lot of babying even in one of the game's easiest stretches to fulfill a decent but not exclusive role in the long-term. Sin already covers your most essential nomad needs, while Klein joins with near-Dayan level bases at the cost of a mount and iron swords. If anybody is underrated on the tier list I'd say it's Noah, but that's a story for another day.
Foot mounted
22:16 lol, what's with the random potshot at FE7? Why's it bad? Genuinely curious why you think that
I talked about it in my "all fe games ranked" video so I'd watch that if you want the long answer. Short answer is badly designed maps, hoardes of tedious enemies, and unfun unit design
Wanted to mention that for CH7 Wolt can make use of supports really well. His Oce affinity gives him hit no matter what, and because Roy, Allen and Marcus all give hit it’s not unreasonable for him to have +15 hit at that point in the game from a few support partners.
That being said in practice I’ve found that the extra hit is STILL unreliable and is so limited, not only does Wolt have to move his tiny feet but he has to be nearby a lose condition and others when fighting the most dangerous units in the game at that point.
Sue’s mobility is so much more useful here, but Wolt clears Dorothy IMO
Sue is just fun to use tbh
@9:40 I think the intended mechanic is that supports are an added bonus to discover rather than something to grind for. This is why I don't support grind.
It's hard to say, because there's things like Karel and fe7 Ranult, which feel impossible to get without grinding, due to game mechanics. I just think gba supports are dumb
Also about Ilia. I honestly don't see either or being worse than the other if you are playing blind on a first playthrough without a guide. Ilia is only way easier with a guide I think. The fog of war and Ballistae is frustrating.
@@DaniDoyle Oh yeah I forgot about that one. FE9 did it best I think.
On the topic of revisiting fe6 units on your tier list, do you think you might have overrated lilina? I'm no binding blade expert but I usually see her a lot lower on most people tier lists compared to where you had her, around C or even D tier units. I don't really have much experience though and it probably isn't worth another video but I am curious of your thoughts on it since I never found much reason to use her over lugh apart from favoritism, but my fe6 knowledge is a lot more scarce
Nah, Lilina is fine where she is. I talked about it in my tier list, but high magic and automatic roy support are both valuable. She and Lugh are "magic vs speed" but her speed is good enough to double armors anyway. Lugh's only advantage is joining early, but his magic stat is so bad.
Hope you're having a good day c:
Sue was useful while she lived in my playthrough of fe6 but she died and then I didn't get shin.
hay can you please do a video on why shadow dragon oguma is underrated. I personally use him as a hunter every time I play because he has more move and damage tham all the over archers even with an iron bow, and with my playstyle I usually don't give doga any exp because I just send jagen down to maipulate the enemies and wait for them to come to me one chapter one, and a base speed doga does not double anything unless he's a merk.
In the middle of an Ironman right now. In 6 levels Sue got +2 hp, +1 speed, no strength, and 6 luck/skill, so… I’m gonna leave her on the bench for now.
0:18 What's this romhack?
Sacred Trilogy
I'll post a link to download when I get back to my computer
feuniverse.us/t/fe8-completed-the-sacred-trilogy-reskin-and-rebalance/5359
@@DaniDoyle Thanks!
I will do all that I can to avoid Sacae. So Sue is always competing against Shin. And it's just not a competition she wins.
What if raigh got a hard mode bonus? Will he jump from D to S?
No
@@DaniDoylewhat if the bonus was +30 movement
The throne in sacae 20x will always be the bottom right one if you reset the chapter.
As such it is 100% consistent.
Sacae is the main reason I don’t train Sue as much as I’d like
Sorry if this has been asked before, but what romhack has the translation AND the displayed stats during no-animation combat? Also free palestine
feuniverse.us/t/fe6-fe7-fe8-plus-enhancement-patch/12603 also free palestine
I replied with the link but sometimes youtubes spam filter gets weird about that so i also added the link to the video description now!
@@DaniDoyle Thank you!
i always heavily invest in sue and shin and still manage to go to Ilia because I'm also heavily investing in shanna and tate. does no one else do this?? all 4 of them are 8 mov sword units with 1-2 range. am i insane??👀
Ilia is just so much better with 2 nomadic troopers shooting down the metric ton of flying enemies. i actually enjoy the Ilia arc because of them. they tend to be in support range very often and their affinities make them pretty deadly and dodgy in the late game.
Fir should go in great with investment. She’s a second swordmaster if you train her.
Oomf has a Clarine Sue rarepair and I think it’s badass
How does that work? They don't have a support, do they?
@@Chatroom64 theres this cool thing called making it up
Why do you add an h to sins name when you say it ?
I like Sue and Sacae and her supports with Shin and Dayan don't @ me
>Best bow girl in FE6
But you didn't talk about Igrene
She's pretty
Top tier
Also penalizing a unit bc some people don't like the route they can *potentially* make you go down is uh
Definitely the consensus the community has made of all time glad there is some pushback on it
Lyndis daughter?
What's a Sue?
Doesn't Neimi count for the female nomad thing?
Ranger has different animations than nomad, and personally i dislike fe8 ranger animations
Nomads seem more impressive than Paladins for sure in FE6, but I don't believe they're better. It's just that Sin is better than any cav you have to train, but not better than Perceval mind you, cause you mentioned only Marcus. I'm sold on what you said about Sue though. Certainly in Normal mode she's arguably a better choice than Sin even.
Some of these points are irrelevant as someone who will never play fe6 hm and just wants to know if sue is worth
Anyway im going to go bring sue to endgame wielding both mulagir and durandal
LETS GOOOO
ill take sue over shanna any time(and these to compare for route split reasons)
The shadow siren/doopliss battle theme was loud and distracting, if you use it again in the future please turn it down. It's a high energy distracting song that completely overshadowed your monologue in this video.
Thanks for the feedback!
Sin better