Why the Martha Scene Kinda Makes Sense
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Using an example from another movie to show why the Martha Scene from Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice actually kinda makes sense.
Zack Snyder's explanation of the Martha Scene: • Zack Snyder explains t...
Inspiration for making this video:
Why You’re WRONG About Batman v Superman - the Martha Controversy - Twin Perfect: • Why You're WRONG About...
WHY I LOVE BATMAN V SUPERMAN or: How I Learned To Stop Hating And Love Zack Snyder - Loverboy Media: • WHY I LOVE BATMAN V SU...
Batman Doesn’t Kill - HiTop Films: • Batman Does NOT Kill
Everything GREAT About Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice! - CinemaWins: • Everything GREAT About...
Return of the Jedi footage: • Video
#batmanvsuperman #dc
Thanks for watching! As always, I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments, let me know what you liked or didn't like about Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice. Also let me know what other videos you'd want to see.
is that the guy i got to school with?!?!?! woah
Melissa...
Why do say that name?!!
Audiences: ????????.....
Finally an intelligent analysis of a psychological trigger
Thank you
This movie is way over hated and widely misunderstood. The movie repeatedly reinforced what the effect of the actions and last word of his father had on him and the trauma he is left with. Having Superman say his fathers last word was a triggering event to say the least.
The problem is not batman reaction, it's why the hell Superman would be worried about his secret identity facing death which means the death of his mother? Why didn't he say "Save my mom." instead of a random name he had no idea it would mean anything to batman?
@@VitorHugoOliveiraSousa Batman just gave a speech about Superman’s parents. Batman would just think he meant his Kryptonian mother, he doesn’t know anything about his human mom. Superman did try to say Martha Kent but is choked out by Batman’s boot. Not to mention his debilitated state from the kryptonite gas and getting pummeled and the kryptonite spear in his face, he wasn’t exactly in the most lucid state.
During The Fight Between Batman and Superman in Batman VS Superman: Dawn of Justice, The Surprising Details you can find in the movie that’s of The Real Reason that Batfleck Hesitated in His Fight Against Superman to Finally Kill him with The Kryptonite Spear, How His Helmet Splited In Half, How Similar To Two-Face, Studying Superman’s Fighting Moves Much Like Bane was Studying Batman, telling Superman To “Breathe In” Like Scarecrow Said once To Batman, Having Deja Vu and A Flashback To His Parents Death, When You Finally Realized That Ben Affleck’s Batman/ Bruce Wayne Is Becoming Like The Monsters and The Arkham Villains He Vowed To Stop from Ever Hurting The Citizens Of Gotham
BVS was reviewb*mbed so bad for me, that I didn't bother to make the effort to see it when it was first released. The negative reviews, and memes were everywhere on social media. l couldn't escape it, I'd seen it all. Finally saw it on a plane, it was the Ultimate Edition, and I I have to say, the film blew me away. Absolutely loved it. A lot of the complaints, i.e., the Martha scene; I was like, yeah, Bruce's PTSD has been foreshadowed throughout the film with a lot of emphasis put on the name, Martha. Trigger words are a real thing. So, it's not hard to agree with fans, when they say, people didn't understand it.
Same. The reviewbombs scare me off for about 3 years until I actually watched it and thought 'hey, it's not half bad!"
From all of the problema with BvS (which are many) this is the one I prpbably had the least problems with...like it's actually really consistent with batman's character, in the comics he experiences weird almost psychotic triggers all of the time...
What's the main actual problem you think of tho?
@@emzonik8851 pacing, structure, Lex Luthor's casting, story direction, weird tonal shifts, writing elements etc... but the Martha scene was totaly consistent with batman's self guilt madman triggers
@@tomo2807 I agree with the fist 3 + the writing issues, but the general story direction was imo great, it just shluld have been realised in 2 movies at least, not 1. And I'm not sure what "tonal shifts" we are talking about. For Martha scene I agree, but the execution could have been better, most people not getting it is the proof.
@@emzonik8851 tonal shifts meaning when during the final act we get silly jokes that imo don't work in an otherwise serious and dark film, but yeah Martha scene is obviously problematic but it's something I can totaly understand seeimg how many times stuff like that happened in the comics
Justice Lords Batman "We have a world where no kids parents are murdered by some punk with a gun"
Justice League Batman "You Win" that was a little silly too but it made sense as a conflict of interest.
that little bit of info adds so much to the movie. bruce turns to the dark side when zod invaded. he was powerless. he was the feared crimefighter in gotham that had this belief that not killing would make a difference in gotham and all he had was failure (hence his look to jason todds suit) this is something batman is often clowned about even if u are a batman fan. now the person making a difference is an alien of all things. he now decided that killing would make him more relavant but compared to a guy that can punch a meteor out of the sky that doesnt mean much. killing superman would make him actually feared. a man killed a god. similar lex lutor had the same motives. he knew bruce was onto his criminal activity and siesed the oppurtinty to push the bat and sups to fight each other, this forced who lex knows to be the worlds greatest detective into finding out that lex has kryptonite and stealing it if the "the god" and the " fallen hero" fight one will kill the other. and he would kill the victor and be the praised true hero. once he realized they teamed up he activates doomsday his plan b. imreaching at this point... dont even remember if thats hiw it happened
I know right. I actually liked this scene.
I get what they were going for in this scene but it just didn't work. The Return of the Jedi scene is much more subtle, done with a show of the camera and Hamill's facial reaction. The BvS scene is just so contrived and forced. The acting isn't good and it doesn't make sense for superman to be saying it
I agree that BvS could have done a better job at showing the parallels to Batman and his parents killer
This scene has its flaws but there is sense to why Clark said what he said. Before the fight Clark says to Lois that he needs Batmans help and he doesnt change his mind during the battle and when he has time for only one sentence he will say his mothers name because he has no chance changeing Batmans mind if he says save my mom
@breadagent2301 It doesn't make sense for him to say Martha as opposed to his mom though. Superman just got lucky that Martha was Batman's mom's name as well otherwise Batman would have had no idea who Martha was
It's not that we don't get it, it's that he over explains it with dialogue and flashbacks. Picture the Star Wars scene like this:
Luke defeats Vader.
Vader: My hand. Look at my hand.
Flashback to Luke in the med bay after losing a hand.
Flashback to Luke losing his hand.
Shows Luke glaring.
Flashback to Luke's hand being cut off in slow mo.
Close up on Luke glaring.
Flashback to Luke screaming in slow mo.
Flashback to hand waving goodbye as it falls.
Luke: What about your hand?!
Leia runs in and throws herself over Vader: It represents what vengeance will do to you!
Luke stumbles back before chucking his lightsaber away.
It's just really clunky and can be done way more succinctly if Snyder trusted our intelligence. But by dwelling on it it makes it funny. Like a teacher saying, "You got an F, no I mean you got an F. Like seriously, it's an F. An F is bad. You know how bad F's are right?"
Lol that's great man. Though what's also crazy is that most people I talk with still don't get the reason why the name Martha changes Batmans mind, though you're right in saying Snyder makes it a bit dramatic
@@vigil7924 The exposition of the name is a little clunky and heavy handed. Snyder's idea is great in concept and I don't know what he could do differently. But maybe drip feeding it a bit more would've been better than lumping it in one scene. I know it's mentioned earlier bit so much happens in the movie that the importance of Martha Wayne's name gets lost in it.
Alright, you got me. I was ready to tell you "nah fam you buggin" but those are valid points. I guess I knew it wasn't so simple but it just came off so dumb on screen I didn't give that scene an extra thought
I've maintained since the movie came out, "Bruce's ENTIRE DRIVING FORCE, his WHOLE MOTIVATION from DAY 0 even, not day 1, day ZERO... is ensuring NO child will EVER have to go through what he did, ever again." Bruce watched his parents get killed in front of him. Thomas and MARTHA Wayne. So when Superman says, "Save... Martha..." he'd hesitate.
Edit: Good idea, clearly flawed execution. Also, doesn't help that Bruce is a freaking mass murderer. It definitely seems like Zack Snyder doesn't even REMOTELY understand the characters... so when he does the ONE THING IN CHARACTER, it doesn't feel right.
Genius... just pure genius.
I think it's pretty obvious what Zac is trying to do, but the failure is not in the idea but in the way it's executed. There are no bad teams, only bad leaders and Zac is the leader here.
Good point, the bad execution is evident from the amount of people who think the scene is stupid. I'm not saying that it's perfect writing, I'm just saying it's a better idea than people give it credit
@@vigil7924 yeah I agree. I remember watching it at the movies at the time and thinking " yeah I see what's going on here, the same name is a reminder of Superman's humanity" I didn't think it was a big deal at the time. Watching it again over the yrs and it is clear it's not coming off right. To dramatic/silly? I don't know, but there is something about it that's off and thats why people act so negatively
FINALLY someone with actual common sense! I've been telling the exact same thing to people ever since it came out, it's just sad how those same people who are dumbed down by surface level storytelling were enough to begin the downfall of this DC cinematic universe. So much wasted potential.
BvS remains my favorite film of the genre.
so that is what the foereshadow of injustice was. superman brought batman to the light so it was gonna be batmans mission to do the same for superman. just as much as he wanted to kill him when he met him he now wants to save him. and instead of the superman vs superman we get it would take superman killing bruce to realize that he has fallen.
My problem was why did he say martha? In this intense moment, why did he call her by her name and not call her mom?
Because it wouldn't have made sense in the moment. If Superman begged Batman to save his mom, Bruce would've assumed he was referring to alien mother (who is on a dead planet), not his earth mother (who is still alive)
@maximusprimal3990 that doesnt makes sense. Bruce knew who Clark was. He knew he was from smallville. He knew where he was raised. And even if he didnt, it doesnt make sense for mam struggle to try and save his mother and on the brink of being killed to say his "mom" rather than "martha".
@@medievalmaxe When was it ever stated or shown that Bruce knew who Clark was and that he was raised by humans. Even in the scene prior to this, Bruce was talking to Superman about how his ALIEN parents sent him to Earth for a specific reason.
Even if you want to make the claim that he probably learned about it through the files he stole from Lex Luthor, that still wouldn't make sense either because 1.) Superman's file isn't present & 2.) The only person who is explicitly aware of Clark's secret identity is Lex.
So again, it doesn't make sense for Superman to ask Batman to save his mom (for reasons I've stated beforehand), but instead apply a name to that individual and make Bruce listen & stop in order to save an innocent person.
They should have just had Lois come in and say "They're gonna kill Martha." Would have made sense then.
@@chiprahnSupe has said that before, so not necessary
I absolutely love this movie and will defend it until I die its my favorite Superhero movie but I will agree with people that this moment was a little stupid and Zack Synder should've thought of a different reason to stop batman from killing Superman
Otherwise I think Batman Vs superman is perfect
My only real issue with BVS (based on my own critical analysis) was that Wonder Woman wasn't needed in the film nor were the cameos of other JL members. A lot of screen time could have been saved by cutting them out and just focusing on Supes, Bats, and Lex. They're the key players in the plot.
There shpuld have been a Trinity movie between bvs and JL, centered on Doomsday and the death of Superman. That part wasn't needed in bvs.
Yeah, naaaah. The execution was so poor the meaning behind it cannot stick for most people. And as someone who actually has called his parents by their first name since birth, I would never say "Martha" in this situation. At least, never like this. The dialogue and the story is clunky af. You literally can see Snyder behind the scenes trying to pull the strings of his puppets / characters. That movie had so much potential. Great cast, great acting, great visuals., great action. Some really good scenes. But yeah, its flaws are too big for me. Good for those it doesn't bother as much.
Of course it makes sense. I forgot both of their names were Martha so it made me go oh yeah and see why it triggered Bruce.
I think there could’ve been a better way to execute it is all.
Agreed
Maybe in theatrical, but in UE version? Come on, just your f*cking brain and heart and pay attention, you will think that's obviously great.
At first I thought it was kinda weird, but I think it does work for Affleck's very paranoid version ot Batman.
If I realized my mother had the same name as the guy I was trying to kill's mother, that would give me pause for a moment as well. It's a really simple and easy way to humanize your opponent.
No. The Martha Scene is a poor adaption of Justice League: War.
The original script from the animated movie was:
Green Lantern : This guy's gonna kill us.
Batman : No he won't. You bruise. But you don't kill. Do you... Clark?
Superman : [Superman stops] You've made your point...
[Superman uses his X-Ray vision on Batman]
Superman : Bruce Wayne.
After the events of Man of Steel, they couldn't do a direct adaptation so they flip the script and made Batman the aggressor.
Zack Synder's films have always been the combination of several different DC Animated Movies and comics. If you combine the events of Justice League War and the Dark Knight Returns, you get Batman v Superman.
The Dark Knight Returns: ua-cam.com/video/zYGPZs7ovsA/v-deo.html
Justice League: War: ua-cam.com/video/sNzqnktKaPg/v-deo.html
Great scene great movie
Yeah, the sentiment is fine but the scene gets roasted so hard because the writing sucks.
Would've been more organic for clark to make Bruce promise to save his mom. Or to say that he can't die here because if he does nobody will be able to save her. Just "sAvE mArThA" sounds awkward and unnatural. The sentiment is fine. The execution is garbage
Death by proxy is different from planned murder. Bruce has "let people die" but he's never CONSCIOUSLY killed. Except for planning to kill Kal
5:32 - So this guy didn't die?
@@emzonik8851I think so
superman picked the fight in the first place, nearly started a war before that and destroys the world in three different alternate timelines, you this argument is old and stupid batman is not the villain if anything superman is the villian
The scene is stupid, but I can't help but laugh at it. Great video.
The martha scene tried to be the hawkeye whistle scene between yelena and barton but failed.
Your comment makes no sense, since BVS came out five years before Hawkeye. Also, Kate tried multiple times to talk Yelena out of her vendetta, but she wouldn't listen. She had even more time to think, maybe she was wrong. Your comment is just Marvel getting yet another pass.
@@tylerhall2760 Marvel learned from BVS mistake on how to get tow forces to stop fighting over a simple whistle by establishing it first the yelena whistle connection in Black Widow. I just wished DC established the Martha connection with bruce in man of steel.
I know they came out different times i just wrote it like that for shock value.
@@birdman6427 I see. Either way, there is plenty of foreshadowing throughout BVS to show that connection. At the beginning of the film - father's last word; at the Mausoleum; and then the flashback when Lois says, "It's his mother's name." And for the audience, during Lex's monologue, when he repeats the name. It's not all that different to be honest from Return of the Jedi when Luke doesn't kill Vader after seeing his severed cybernetic arm. But, you don't see people saying, even though you have caused death and destruction across the galaxy, I see you also have a robot arm, and being my dad, I will spare you. That scene is used in the exact same way.
I think one of the worst parts of the movie is the God awful Doomsday design