My financial advisor Helped convince my fiance that we can actually retire with dignity and how we can do it. She did not believe the numbers I provided her until he showed her the calculations and graphs in a meeting we had. Now we are two young motivated individuals working for a decent retirement. Absolutely worth having an Advisor in my situation Edit: She is now my Wife ❤️
the fact that 75 percent of BO and Brain clients are not stressed about money vs 71% of Americans might have something to do with Bo and Brain only take clients with a minimum net worth of 750 thousand dollars. I laughed about that otherwise great episode
I was just going to comment that as well. That's the single biggest difference in those numbers. The most important as well. I might be in the minority but my wife and I are around 500k. We have no advisor and worry about money every day.
As a financial advisor, thank you for an overall balanced show on financial advisors. Just like a lot of things in life, there are good and bad apples. The secret is finding an advisor who cares about their client's and is knowledgeable about their needs and matches those needs with the right solutions. I remember the main goal in my practice. I need to help my clients succeed first, then, and only then, will I prosper.
@@ChristopherKilrain for someone about to retire in the next 3 yrs, should we move from a advisor to a planner? Especially for someone with a few mill and 3 properties?? Thanks
That's just BS. How come financial advisors ask to pay upfront once you sign up? (payment is normally done per quarter and the first quarter is paid upfront.) Your client's asset has not earned any money yet and yet you want to get paid immediately. Where is this "clients succeed first" before you can prosper? How come even if the market is down and your client is losing money, you still get paid 1% of his assets?
@@nrivera567 it depends. Some advisors are competent in the same work but most aren't. If all they do is manage investments for you and haven't looked into how to make things more efficient or how they can better your circumstances as a whole then it's worth taking a meeting at least.
@@coderlifer4870 our firm gets paid after the first month so your money has had some time to grow and we have had to work. Granted we do our billing monthly. Each firm has their own billing methods/ timing
Brian and Bo charge 1.25% of assets under managment (lower over 1 million). For me, that is $11,250 a year. I have 9 years to retirement - $11,250 a year compounded for 9 years (assuming 5% returns) = $141,500 - Side note: their "Holistic" service is for advisory services. You still need to pay for an accountant and legal services.
Yep, don't listen to these two clowns. Fees based on the percent of assets under management are a scam. They should explain why an auto mechanic should not charge them the cost of car repair based on the amount of their gross income.
@@zoner__ That's because that's real hard work compared to 1% of AUM that they will just put in more or less S&P500 type index funds and leave it alone like a wise investor should do long term.
@@coderlifer4870Not really a scam. Just also advised to people that understand the market themselves, to just self manage. But, 1.25% isn’t that much for those that just do not understand investing.
I have been watching them for 4 years now. 32 in the middle of the messy middle with a 1 year old and this show has added so much value to managing our money and becoming the mutants we are today. My wife at 28 did a career shift to go to law school and we have met many younger 20 year olds through her school. We are mom and dad of the friends group and I push anyone who listens to their show. All in all - keep of the great work bought the book and glad I could give you a little something for all the advice
Yeah, I didn’t expect them to tell me I didn’t need one. But so far I’m doing great. Could use a tax advisor but haven’t had any luck finding one of them near me. Should probably contact Fidelity and see what they suggest
Yep, don't listen to these two clowns. Fees based on the percent of assets under management are a scam. They should explain why an auto mechanic should not charge them the cost of car repair based on the amount of their gross income.
I recently fired my advisor after 12 years. I think she did a decent job for us…but, our returns were mediocre and we were spread across too many funds. After doing a lot more learning on my own and testing some investments outside of her management I decided that the cost and complexity were no longer worth it. I will likely seek out an advisor that is fee for service (not AUM) to bounce my ideas off in the future to make sure I’m still on track.
The problem I can see with financial advisors is that often times what you should be doing is incredibly simple, but they are worried that if they don't make their job seem complex that you won't think you need them do they add complexity where it isn't needed to obvescate what they do
Agreed! Rick Ferri has his “core four” site which helps folks find an asset allocation plan that fits their needs in just a few funds. He tells a story about helping financial advisors who want to accomplish a similar result but ask for more funds because they need it to be more “complicated.” I’ve “simplified” my IRAs but am still stuck with a dozen different ETFs in my taxable portfolio because I don’t want to incur the capital gains taxes just yet.
I like the idea of fee-only advisors. Personally, I feel like I can manage my own investing because I have self-taught myself on the topic. However, I think the anyone can benefit by a fee-only advisor looking under the hood, maybe semi-annually. But those who take fees over the long-term through load funds, etc, really turn me off. And I think the advisors often have a "dog in the hunt" in some cases. IE I know one advisor who was reluctant to take money out of stocks, even though their client needed to take money out for a business investment. This investment wouldn't help the advisor because they would be giving up their commission through the load funds. I appreciate the fact that you guys operate as fee-only advisors.
I think the fee only “project based” model are the best. The % assets under management I don’t think so much. But I enjoy learning a lot about personal finance. I’m sure many with large balances, Especially if someone inherits a lot (high six figs and up). I think a better than assets under management would be a fixed yearly fee like a subscription. My humble opinion. I think these guys are very knowledgeable and are sincere about helping folks achieve financial abundance.
I have received lots of great free advice from your show and I bought your book. I have always been a DIY saver and investor. But, I believe your numbers about the value of an advisor are correct and think many people would benefit from the right Investment Advisor with a holistic approach. Fortunately for me I have enjoyed my DIY role and had the ability to save and hold diversified investments.
usually love their data but some of the stuff in this video is a bit of a stretch - i.e. psychological benefits of an advisor - i get what they're trying to say but the data is likely showing correlation and not causation. ppl with CFPs might have higher quality of life and financial confidence/satisfaction simply bc they have more money and are more on top of their finances than the average american, not bc they have an advisor....
The Vanguard study is ludicrous and includes people that don't understand you need to invest your IRA and not leave it in cash. You need a lot of complexity before even Abound can add 2% compared to DIY. Remember that you pay the fee even when your account loses value. Yes the advisor makes less, but they still make money even when you're losing money.
@AlexanderNeis Literally every company in sp500 is in tsm. They are technically different in terms of overall exposure, but basically the same in terms of performance over any time period. Being that they're cap weighted, beyond the first 500 companies in tsm it's like 10ths of a percent invested in each company and decreases the further down you go. I prefer TSM because why not have the extra exposure, and then use other funds to tilt in a specific direction (like growth or value) Personally I do 65 % vti, 15 % avuv(small cap value) and 20 in vxus
Don’t necessarily disagree, but for me with a $2m portfolio I’d rather pay the $20k and have a trusted advisor who I can ask advice of and give me direction. I don’t have the time to be on top of all of mt finances. So in my eyes he just has to make $20k more or lose $20 less than me and then he is worth it.
As you would with any managed portfolio! I think they are pretty specific that it’s only fit for certain people. Like the comment above. With a 2 million dollar portfolio it is nice to have an advisor for moves whether you’re losing or making money. Because anyone who’s made any kind of substantial money knows it will go up and down but expert advice should always move you FORWARD.
Most financial advisors charge 1% of AUM per year. That may sound small, but if you're retiring with around a 4% safe withdrawal rate that's a quarter of your retirement going to somebody else... If you're retiring early and will probably need closer to a 3% rate, that's a third of your cash flow going to the advisor.
I fired my advisor. 3% a quarter of assets managed for a meeting once a year to talk about financial goals was a waste. It was a cookie cutter plan and they never moved my money unless forced to. Much better off and more satisfied after moving it to Vanguard.
I think they do a good enough job as being as unbiased as possible. They start off by saying you most likely do not need a financial advisor. They say do as much DIY research on your own, grow your assets, save your dollars, take advantage of the basics (saving, 401ks, Roth IRAs, HSAs, 529s, creating a balance sheet, etc.). Once it gets too complicated, like you start tax harvesting (i.e. deciding which years you want to pay less taxes vs other years based on investment realizations vs. cash needs), or you are setting up an estate for your offspring and want a trust fall under certain rules and regulations, an advisor might be needed. Most people aren't going to be in the 2nd bucket until they have >$1M in liquid assets.
I think this was good overall. I know online hates on advisors a lot, and for good reason. I will say as I have grown older I am now seeing the point of an advisor where I used to not to. Do you need an advisor to invest in the sp500? No. Do you need an advisor if you have under $500k? Probably not. Do you need an advisor if you don’t have dependents? Also probably no. But what people forget is a good advisor is very good at taxes and money law. They can be very helpful at tax planning and trust planning
When you are retired you got plenty of time to spend a couple hours figuring this stuff out. I’m way way over the threshold, have kids, and still can’t imagine paying over 25% of my future gains/profits in fees. You certainly can if you want but seems ludicrous. None of this is very hard to google and figure out.
Like all things in personal finance, the answer is it depends. -Bo But it’s true. Some people do need an advisor and others don’t. Great episode. Would love to see a case study on the impacts of the benefits of an advisor over time in portfolio value with specifics focusing on tax loss/gain harvesting, rebalancing, etc.
The Vanguard study reminds me of when reports come out about actively managed funds beating passively managed funds. It doesn't pass the smell test. Usually Brian & Bo are good about questioning this sort of thing, but in this case it's a conflict of interest since they are financial advisers. When Brian talks about providing value by helping small business owners structure retirements plans for their company I can see how some people could benefit from a financial adviser. But for the average W2 earner, a financial adviser provides little to no value. I used to have one but I found I was getting better advice just listening to the Money Guy Show.
@FunStuffBuddy oh buddy ignorance is bliss until it isn't. How about if you want to retire early and planning how much you need to contribute into each of the 3 buckets to support that in the most efficient tax manner, are backdoor Roths a good decision, does a 529 plan make sense. Just a couple examples for thought. Cheers
@@ericdouglas9380honestly all fairly simple strategies you can google. Or ask your CPA vs spending 6-7 figures in fees for relatively little time/help. Main thing is to save and give it time to compound more than the polishing anyway
The older you get, the more money you have, the more you would benefit from an advisor. Retirement account meltdown strategies are not something the average person gets the complex details about
The only issue is really the AUM model.. No matter how much you make if you are paying a percentage of your net worth every year it's going to be really hard to justify it.. You'd really have to be at a point your effectively going to have to withdrawal at least 100k-200k / year and not have any clue about what your doing to get any benefit for AUM as well as have many income streams and possible owning a business. 1% a year on a 3 mill$ portfolio is 30,000$, I just have trouble seeing how you can afford to pay 30k$ a year when likely you would only be able to pull out 120-150k$/year. That's like 20-25% of your yearly expenses POST TAX! I don't even believe you can deduct those expenses either to prevent paying the extra tax (which would be money from your highest marginal tax bracket and actually cost MORE than 1%) .
@@Lolatyou332 If we are looking at a $3 million dollar client, they are generally paying quite a bit less than 1%. Also, advisor fees can be deductible and a good advisor will show you how. Finally, with good planning you can often take more than 4% from your assets which means that it often benefits those with less money to figure out retirement. If you "only" have $500k saved but need more than $20k a year in income from your assets, I would suggest talking to an advisor as they very well could have a solution.
Right now as I just rent and have w-2s and have already gotten started investing in indexe/target retirement funds I don't think my situation is complex enough for any advisors yet.
Yeah, investing in funds is not difficult. Really the only benefit IMO is tax planning but even then I just find it hard how AUM financial advisors can make more money for clients than they take. I feel like you could be pretty reckless on withdrawing while being non-tax advantaged and still come out ahead in most scenarios tax wise unless you just literally decide to Roth convert everything as soon as retirement starts.
@@Lolatyou332 there are plenty of studies out there from companies like Vanguard that find the opposite to be true. According to Vanguard a good advisor will earn you about 3.5% more year over year than a DIY person. Some of it is returns but much of it is tied to other aspects.
Looking forward to this! I don’t know if this is a growing field or if I’m just more aware but there are advisers everywhere. No one cares as much about my money as I do. My best advisors were my parents - who were of the start early and live below your means philosophy.
When you are younger I would say No. Once you are successful and have a lot of pieces and complexity in your mix, you should definitely give it consideration. It's not for everyone for sure and individual mileage will vary. There are many approaches and fees available based on your needs. I have used an adviser for the past 2 years and feel they are certaily worth it.
I took a statistics class in college. I hated the class. The one thing i did learn is that you can make a study say any result that you desire. You control the data, just find a reason to throw out certain criteria and it could change the result drastically. I dont trust a financial instution doing a study to justify to justify their employees. 3%-4% more, i find extremely hard to believe. Follow the money!
A little disappointed that Brian didn't include PFS designation on a CPA -my wife is a PFS trained CPA trying to start offering fee only holistic panning (retainer based fee structure I believe?) at her accounting firm. This little known credential is more of a one stop person who can make sure you are on track financially and look at short and long term tax planning or issues related to retirement.
If you live off 4 percent a yr, you pay 1 percent for your advisor. You paid 5 percent a yr. It would be higher probability to run out of money earlier.
Not if the decisions the advisor makes increases the returns by more than the fee, which is their argument. Most advisors are going to be better at investing your money than you will be.
It was a little odd but They seemed to indicate it was 3-4% more “value” in what they provide but not dollars and cents. It doesn’t really add up though and some weird assumptions are being made on that one
Recency bias is real. From 2000 to 2012 what was the return from S&P 500? If a fee based advisor wasn’t able to do at least 3-4% better over that period then they’re useless.
@@lindsaynewell6319 If thjey did they'd publish their returns. Doubtful it happened. Personally it seems like anyone who uses the phrase "Recency bias" has the worst bias.
When it's time for me to get an advisor I will find a fee only advisor. I will not go to a AUM advisor. There are very good advisors that charge a per hour fee that you visit maybe 2 or 3 times a year or charge you flat fees for whatever actual plan you are asking for.
If you want to prove that you are worth 25% of the suggested distribution from an investigation, show that you do better than a target-date fund for most people.
You guys are trying too hard to push AUM. I agree on all of your information before but this episode feels like a push. Your firm charges 1.25 percent to start? I would totally focus on do it yourself and pay a fee only advisor closer to retirement. Math doesn’t lie.
That extra .25% is their profit margin. I wonder though how much of the fees a person pays go to their own services and how much is spent on new client acquisition.
Yes, it's obvious they are pushing for fees on AUM advisors. That's how financial advisors can make the most money at the huge expense of the client. If you watch videos explaining how bad fees-on-AUM advisors are, you'll see plenty of comments telling their sad stories about how they got duped. You won't read anything saying they were happy with it.
I’m not a big fan of financial advisors unless it is from the perspective of educating people. I absolutely hate financial advisors that just invest for people with no explanation. The idea should be that you know exactly what your money is doing. Financial advisors are good for people with a wide variety of assets with complex tax implications.
(Brian’s Troll here) Brian, I do appreciate the free information. I’ve watched the whole video But I can’t get my head around the potential opportunity loss. Abound Wealth chargers 1.25% of assets under management up to 1 million. That’s $10,000 a year for an $800,000 portfolio $10,000 is 125% greater than the allowable $8000 contribution limit to a personal IRA/Roth $10,000 is 12% of an $85,000 gross income If im saving 25% of a $85,000 gross income, that $10,000 is 47% of the $21,250 annual retirement savings you recommend. For comparison, If $10,000 a year was invested in an S&P 500 indexed mutual fund, averaging a historical averaged return of 7%, the potential compounded return… @10 years, $10,000 = $157,836 I guess I fall under the low income category.
Oh don’t worry, I’m wayyyyy over the threshold, love the money guy, but would never give them my money and pay 1% fee. It’s way way way too costly. 1% fee is roughly 25% of all your gains/profits over 30 years which is nuts.
1% fee of Asset Under Management is a scam. Like your example, I am an auto mechanic and you asked me to fix your car. Explain to me why the cost of repair should not depend on the amount of your gross income. Please answer that.
I think if you have a multi million dollar assets and only 5% of it is in the stock market, then a financial advisor would be worth it so you wouldn’t have to worry about that 5% investment.
I've listened to about 100 of your podcasts episodes. This is the first one i did not enjoy. From the very beginning i could tell it was going to be a commercial for AUM advisors. No thanks. I don't need to pay someone $20K+ per year to rebalance my portfolio. You didn't really articulate the cons of AUM. You mentioned the commonly cited con (eroding portfolio value) and tried to spin it as a positive, using the vanguard study which is of dubious quality (and contains a major conflict of interest). Plus the vanguard study didn't differentiate between retainer and AUM. So even if the vanguard study reflects the true value of an advisor, I can get the same benefit out of a retainer-based advisor as I can out of an AUM advisor for potentially tens of thousands of dollars less per year.
Not all financial advisors are scoundrels. If your financial advisor isnt a fudiciary, they are a scoundrel. They still might be if they are a fudiciary, so do your due dilligence.
If I want a "financial advisor" I'll just put my money in a managed mutual fund... Same thing. Less cost. There are some great performing funds out there that have less than 0.7% expense ratios and no other fees that have returned about 20% average over ranges from 5-20 years. What can a financial advisor do for me that I cannot do for myself?.. just charge me money.
@@burkles4456, yeah. Some people just don't know better, some people don't care. I can change the oil in my truck for about $46. High quality oil and filter. My buddy pays almost $90. To get his oil changed with whatever the oil place uses because he doesn't want to deal with it. It's a different mentality.
@@burkles4456Jiffy Lube still exists because some people are physically incapable of changing their own oil. Nevermind all the other reasons. Helps to think outside of your own personal experiences
I was happy with my financial advisor until I learned enough to begin to disagree. Consider that you’re going to retire in less than 4%/year, and you’re going to wait till age 65 to start. You’re going to give someone 1%/year, so 25% of your future retirement income, and they retire today. That’s absolutely wild. How much money would someone have to give you, to sit down and read a few books and watch a UA-cam channel now and then?
@@GunGrave0if you can find someone, sure. But they won’t make any money so most won’t want to bother. Also you truly only need 2-4 funds and that’s it. Set it and forget it. It’s that simple.
@@getinthespace7715 I would probably just pay someone hourly to rebalance and come up with plan for retirement withdrawals. I would NEVER pay a percentage of my investments or anything ridiculous like that. Hell no.
Are financial advisors worth it? Depends! If you are not financially educated or seeking convenience, the answer is NO! No one cares about your money as much as you do.
I really love your advice and have been listening to you for a while now.... but I don't think you're chart WITH a % AUM advisor is by any means realistic. This is assuming that someone's advisor is outperforming the S&P500 consistently over 25 years, which statistically, is close to a 0% chance of happening.
They review a breakdown of the studies suggesting a 3-4% improvement in returns with a financial advisor, and the largest benefit was protection against behavioral errors. Speculation, daytrading, panic-selling/panic-buying are strategies that are going to drastically underperform an always-be-buying-low-cost-diversified-index-funds strategy. Honestly - this video probably gives an accurate representation of what value an advisor could bring to *the average investor*, but not what value an advisor could bring to *the average Money Guy Show watcher*.
lol this video is such a conflict of interest that I almost respect the disingenuous and self serving nature of the topic. Breaking news:Financial Advisors tell you Financial Advisors are worth it! Sign up and pay their fees! Shocker lol
Let’s see! Save, save, save! At least 20% of your income! S&P 500 Index Funds for your investments! Get a Will or a Trust! Become Debt Free! Max out your HSA! Invest in Real Estate! All these are things My Wife and I are doing! I think I’m ok!
Considering only ~35% of people use financial advisors, clearly if there is any value most feel it is not worth it. Every advisor I see on UA-cam that goes through their financial planning process starts with ~$1M of investable assets. They know full well that the median (better indicator of most people than averages that are skewed high) is around ~$85K of investable assets. However, FA usually get paid based on AUM, so they literally don't want to help the median client! They are there to serve those with enough investable assets so the FA can live in a 4000 sq ft house and drive a Tesla, Audi, MB, or BMW. Same with realtors not wanting to have homes sell for lower price because it directly impacts their paychecks, even though its best for both parties. FA aren't necessarily interested in helping those with lower balances bc they won't make enough money.
@@Zombiebeast1995great point, agreed. I think they are fantastic and they are genuinely good people. I still would never recommend paying 1+% AUM though. I have a feeling Brian hated doing this video
@@FunStuffBuddy I agree that it is a hefty amount of money, but some people just can’t/don’t want to think about their finances that much to be efficient. Then there’s also the people that may have many moving parts, and again, don’t want to dedicate the time to figuring it out. I am not sure if I’ll use an advisor or not yet. We are 29 and I think I would not think about using one unless I got to around $5M or more, or for some specific advice when I’m nearing retirement.
They offer 100% free incredible financial advice basically 7 days a week. And they make one video for people to consider if a FA is worth it? You are the embarrassing one😂
Just looked up Ramit and he literally has a UA-cam short titled, 'When do you hire a Financial Expert'😂😂 He basically says the exact same thing the Money Guys say too. Now THAT is embarassing😂
My financial advisor
Helped convince my fiance that we can actually retire with dignity and how we can do it. She did not believe the numbers I provided her until he showed her the calculations and graphs in a meeting we had. Now we are two young motivated individuals working for a decent retirement. Absolutely worth having an Advisor in my situation
Edit: She is now my Wife ❤️
the fact that 75 percent of BO and Brain clients are not stressed about money vs 71% of Americans might have something to do with Bo and Brain only take clients with a minimum net worth of 750 thousand dollars. I laughed about that otherwise great episode
I was just going to comment that as well. That's the single biggest difference in those numbers. The most important as well.
I might be in the minority but my wife and I are around 500k. We have no advisor and worry about money every day.
Generally people with more money worry about it a lot more than those with not much.
As a financial advisor, thank you for an overall balanced show on financial advisors. Just like a lot of things in life, there are good and bad apples. The secret is finding an advisor who cares about their client's and is knowledgeable about their needs and matches those needs with the right solutions. I remember the main goal in my practice. I need to help my clients succeed first, then, and only then, will I prosper.
Agreed, I'm a planner/ advisor as well and feel the same way.
@@ChristopherKilrain for someone about to retire in the next 3 yrs, should we move from a advisor to a planner? Especially for someone with a few mill and 3 properties?? Thanks
That's just BS. How come financial advisors ask to pay upfront once you sign up? (payment is normally done per quarter and the first quarter is paid upfront.) Your client's asset has not earned any money yet and yet you want to get paid immediately. Where is this "clients succeed first" before you can prosper? How come even if the market is down and your client is losing money, you still get paid 1% of his assets?
@@nrivera567 it depends. Some advisors are competent in the same work but most aren't. If all they do is manage investments for you and haven't looked into how to make things more efficient or how they can better your circumstances as a whole then it's worth taking a meeting at least.
@@coderlifer4870 our firm gets paid after the first month so your money has had some time to grow and we have had to work. Granted we do our billing monthly. Each firm has their own billing methods/ timing
Brian and Bo charge 1.25% of assets under managment (lower over 1 million). For me, that is $11,250 a year. I have 9 years to retirement - $11,250 a year compounded for 9 years (assuming 5% returns) = $141,500 -
Side note: their "Holistic" service is for advisory services. You still need to pay for an accountant and legal services.
Yep, don't listen to these two clowns. Fees based on the percent of assets under management are a scam. They should explain why an auto mechanic should not charge them the cost of car repair based on the amount of their gross income.
I haven’t found an advisor yet that wants to do the tax part.
@@zoner__ That's because that's real hard work compared to 1% of AUM that they will just put in more or less S&P500 type index funds and leave it alone like a wise investor should do long term.
@@coderlifer4870Not really a scam. Just also advised to people that understand the market themselves, to just self manage.
But, 1.25% isn’t that much for those that just do not understand investing.
@@zoner__it's illegal to be an accountant and advisor for the same client.
I have been watching them for 4 years now. 32 in the middle of the messy middle with a 1 year old and this show has added so much value to managing our money and becoming the mutants we are today. My wife at 28 did a career shift to go to law school and we have met many younger 20 year olds through her school. We are mom and dad of the friends group and I push anyone who listens to their show.
All in all - keep of the great work bought the book and glad I could give you a little something for all the advice
Up*
Their best sales pitch yet.
Yeah, I didn’t expect them to tell me I didn’t need one. But so far I’m doing great. Could use a tax advisor but haven’t had any luck finding one of them near me. Should probably contact Fidelity and see what they suggest
Yep, don't listen to these two clowns. Fees based on the percent of assets under management are a scam. They should explain why an auto mechanic should not charge them the cost of car repair based on the amount of their gross income.
I recently fired my advisor after 12 years. I think she did a decent job for us…but, our returns were mediocre and we were spread across too many funds. After doing a lot more learning on my own and testing some investments outside of her management I decided that the cost and complexity were no longer worth it. I will likely seek out an advisor that is fee for service (not AUM) to bounce my ideas off in the future to make sure I’m still on track.
The problem I can see with financial advisors is that often times what you should be doing is incredibly simple, but they are worried that if they don't make their job seem complex that you won't think you need them do they add complexity where it isn't needed to obvescate what they do
Agreed! Rick Ferri has his “core four” site which helps folks find an asset allocation plan that fits their needs in just a few funds. He tells a story about helping financial advisors who want to accomplish a similar result but ask for more funds because they need it to be more “complicated.”
I’ve “simplified” my IRAs but am still stuck with a dozen different ETFs in my taxable portfolio because I don’t want to incur the capital gains taxes just yet.
I like the idea of fee-only advisors. Personally, I feel like I can manage my own investing because I have self-taught myself on the topic. However, I think the anyone can benefit by a fee-only advisor looking under the hood, maybe semi-annually. But those who take fees over the long-term through load funds, etc, really turn me off. And I think the advisors often have a "dog in the hunt" in some cases. IE I know one advisor who was reluctant to take money out of stocks, even though their client needed to take money out for a business investment. This investment wouldn't help the advisor because they would be giving up their commission through the load funds. I appreciate the fact that you guys operate as fee-only advisors.
“Fee only” are often AUM setups FYI….
@@FunStuffBuddy yes, understand. To be clear, I like fee-only minus an AUM
@@1apilot2that’s fair
I think the fee only “project based” model are the best. The % assets under management I don’t think so much. But I enjoy learning a lot about personal finance. I’m sure many with large balances, Especially if someone inherits a lot (high six figs and up). I think a better than assets under management would be a fixed yearly fee like a subscription. My humble opinion. I think these guys are very knowledgeable and are sincere about helping folks achieve financial abundance.
I have received lots of great free advice from your show and I bought your book. I have always been a DIY saver and investor. But, I believe your numbers about the value of an advisor are correct and think many people would benefit from the right Investment Advisor with a holistic approach. Fortunately for me I have enjoyed my DIY role and had the ability to save and hold diversified investments.
Part of me wants the Money Guys to make me a case study and review my info to see if I need an advisor!
usually love their data but some of the stuff in this video is a bit of a stretch - i.e. psychological benefits of an advisor - i get what they're trying to say but the data is likely showing correlation and not causation. ppl with CFPs might have higher quality of life and financial confidence/satisfaction simply bc they have more money and are more on top of their finances than the average american, not bc they have an advisor....
The Vanguard study is ludicrous and includes people that don't understand you need to invest your IRA and not leave it in cash. You need a lot of complexity before even Abound can add 2% compared to DIY. Remember that you pay the fee even when your account loses value. Yes the advisor makes less, but they still make money even when you're losing money.
@AlexanderNeis
Literally every company in sp500 is in tsm. They are technically different in terms of overall exposure, but basically the same in terms of performance over any time period.
Being that they're cap weighted, beyond the first 500 companies in tsm it's like 10ths of a percent invested in each company and decreases the further down you go.
I prefer TSM because why not have the extra exposure, and then use other funds to tilt in a specific direction (like growth or value)
Personally I do 65 % vti, 15 % avuv(small cap value) and 20 in vxus
Don’t necessarily disagree, but for me with a $2m portfolio I’d rather pay the $20k and have a trusted advisor who I can ask advice of and give me direction. I don’t have the time to be on top of all of mt finances. So in my eyes he just has to make $20k more or lose $20 less than me and then he is worth it.
As you would with any managed portfolio! I think they are pretty specific that it’s only fit for certain people. Like the comment above. With a 2 million dollar portfolio it is nice to have an advisor for moves whether you’re losing or making money. Because anyone who’s made any kind of substantial money knows it will go up and down but expert advice should always move you FORWARD.
As a AUM Advisor Trainee, I really appreciate this breakdown
Most financial advisors charge 1% of AUM per year. That may sound small, but if you're retiring with around a 4% safe withdrawal rate that's a quarter of your retirement going to somebody else... If you're retiring early and will probably need closer to a 3% rate, that's a third of your cash flow going to the advisor.
I fired my advisor. 3% a quarter of assets managed for a meeting once a year to talk about financial goals was a waste. It was a cookie cutter plan and they never moved my money unless forced to. Much better off and more satisfied after moving it to Vanguard.
No. Next question. -Bo
A video about whether financial advisors are worth it or not created by financial advisors. is it possible for this to be unbiased?
I think they do a good enough job as being as unbiased as possible. They start off by saying you most likely do not need a financial advisor. They say do as much DIY research on your own, grow your assets, save your dollars, take advantage of the basics (saving, 401ks, Roth IRAs, HSAs, 529s, creating a balance sheet, etc.).
Once it gets too complicated, like you start tax harvesting (i.e. deciding which years you want to pay less taxes vs other years based on investment realizations vs. cash needs), or you are setting up an estate for your offspring and want a trust fall under certain rules and regulations, an advisor might be needed.
Most people aren't going to be in the 2nd bucket until they have >$1M in liquid assets.
Brian IS an open book. 😂 "When I started writing my FIRST book"
Can't wait!
I think this was good overall. I know online hates on advisors a lot, and for good reason. I will say as I have grown older I am now seeing the point of an advisor where I used to not to. Do you need an advisor to invest in the sp500? No. Do you need an advisor if you have under $500k? Probably not. Do you need an advisor if you don’t have dependents? Also probably no. But what people forget is a good advisor is very good at taxes and money law. They can be very helpful at tax planning and trust planning
When you are retired you got plenty of time to spend a couple hours figuring this stuff out. I’m way way over the threshold, have kids, and still can’t imagine paying over 25% of my future gains/profits in fees. You certainly can if you want but seems ludicrous. None of this is very hard to google and figure out.
Like all things in personal finance, the answer is it depends.
-Bo
But it’s true. Some people do need an advisor and others don’t. Great episode. Would love to see a case study on the impacts of the benefits of an advisor over time in portfolio value with specifics focusing on tax loss/gain harvesting, rebalancing, etc.
The Vanguard study reminds me of when reports come out about actively managed funds beating passively managed funds. It doesn't pass the smell test. Usually Brian & Bo are good about questioning this sort of thing, but in this case it's a conflict of interest since they are financial advisers.
When Brian talks about providing value by helping small business owners structure retirements plans for their company I can see how some people could benefit from a financial adviser. But for the average W2 earner, a financial adviser provides little to no value. I used to have one but I found I was getting better advice just listening to the Money Guy Show.
I don't think people realize how difficult it is to find a good financial planner.
Imagine having 5 million in an sp500 index fund or total market index fund and paying someone 47500 a year (billed quarterly) to keep it in there.
EXACTLY. It’s STILL not needed. “Finding complexity” should never happen!
Imagine not watching a video and assuming this is the situation they say to hire an advisor.....
@FunStuffBuddy oh buddy ignorance is bliss until it isn't. How about if you want to retire early and planning how much you need to contribute into each of the 3 buckets to support that in the most efficient tax manner, are backdoor Roths a good decision, does a 529 plan make sense. Just a couple examples for thought. Cheers
@@ericdouglas9380honestly all fairly simple strategies you can google. Or ask your CPA vs spending 6-7 figures in fees for relatively little time/help. Main thing is to save and give it time to compound more than the polishing anyway
@@ericdouglas9380 🤷♀️
Did Brian just tease a second book
The older you get, the more money you have, the more you would benefit from an advisor. Retirement account meltdown strategies are not something the average person gets the complex details about
The only issue is really the AUM model.. No matter how much you make if you are paying a percentage of your net worth every year it's going to be really hard to justify it..
You'd really have to be at a point your effectively going to have to withdrawal at least 100k-200k / year and not have any clue about what your doing to get any benefit for AUM as well as have many income streams and possible owning a business.
1% a year on a 3 mill$ portfolio is 30,000$, I just have trouble seeing how you can afford to pay 30k$ a year when likely you would only be able to pull out 120-150k$/year. That's like 20-25% of your yearly expenses POST TAX! I don't even believe you can deduct those expenses either to prevent paying the extra tax (which would be money from your highest marginal tax bracket and actually cost MORE than 1%) .
@@Lolatyou332 This exactly
@@Lolatyou332 If we are looking at a $3 million dollar client, they are generally paying quite a bit less than 1%. Also, advisor fees can be deductible and a good advisor will show you how. Finally, with good planning you can often take more than 4% from your assets which means that it often benefits those with less money to figure out retirement. If you "only" have $500k saved but need more than $20k a year in income from your assets, I would suggest talking to an advisor as they very well could have a solution.
Right now as I just rent and have w-2s and have already gotten started investing in indexe/target retirement funds I don't think my situation is complex enough for any advisors yet.
I have found most financial advisors put One in a cookie cutter plan. (Life style fund or retirement date plan)
Yeah, investing in funds is not difficult. Really the only benefit IMO is tax planning but even then I just find it hard how AUM financial advisors can make more money for clients than they take. I feel like you could be pretty reckless on withdrawing while being non-tax advantaged and still come out ahead in most scenarios tax wise unless you just literally decide to Roth convert everything as soon as retirement starts.
@@Lolatyou332 there are plenty of studies out there from companies like Vanguard that find the opposite to be true. According to Vanguard a good advisor will earn you about 3.5% more year over year than a DIY person. Some of it is returns but much of it is tied to other aspects.
Wow I’ve been listing to these guys for awhile, I truly believe they are acting in your best interest 😊Wish they were in NJ
Looking forward to this! I don’t know if this is a growing field or if I’m just more aware but there are advisers everywhere. No one cares as much about my money as I do. My best advisors were my parents - who were of the start early and live below your means philosophy.
When you are younger I would say No. Once you are successful and have a lot of pieces and complexity in your mix, you should definitely give it consideration. It's not for everyone for sure and individual mileage will vary. There are many approaches and fees available based on your needs. I have used an adviser for the past 2 years and feel they are certaily worth it.
I took a statistics class in college. I hated the class. The one thing i did learn is that you can make a study say any result that you desire. You control the data, just find a reason to throw out certain criteria and it could change the result drastically. I dont trust a financial instution doing a study to justify to justify their employees. 3%-4% more, i find extremely hard to believe. Follow the money!
These two studies are provided by organizations that sell advise. To be fair, that should be noted in this video.
A little disappointed that Brian didn't include PFS designation on a CPA -my wife is a PFS trained CPA trying to start offering fee only holistic panning (retainer based fee structure I believe?) at her accounting firm. This little known credential is more of a one stop person who can make sure you are on track financially and look at short and long term tax planning or issues related to retirement.
oh, by the way PFS is Personal Financial Specialist and Brian Preston has this credential as well.
This was a great deep dive! Thanks for sharing!
If you live off 4 percent a yr, you pay 1 percent for your advisor. You paid 5 percent a yr. It would be higher probability to run out of money earlier.
Not if the decisions the advisor makes increases the returns by more than the fee, which is their argument. Most advisors are going to be better at investing your money than you will be.
How you an advisor possibly get 3-4% better return than the S&P 500 over time?
It was a little odd but They seemed to indicate it was 3-4% more “value” in what they provide but not dollars and cents. It doesn’t really add up though and some weird assumptions are being made on that one
By saving you money on taxes
@@FunStuffBuddy yeah it seems to be making the assumption that everyone without an advisor is in CDs
Recency bias is real. From 2000 to 2012 what was the return from S&P 500? If a fee based advisor wasn’t able to do at least 3-4% better over that period then they’re useless.
@@lindsaynewell6319 If thjey did they'd publish their returns. Doubtful it happened. Personally it seems like anyone who uses the phrase "Recency bias" has the worst bias.
Broadly: no
When it's time for me to get an advisor I will find a fee only advisor. I will not go to a AUM advisor. There are very good advisors that charge a per hour fee that you visit maybe 2 or 3 times a year or charge you flat fees for whatever actual plan you are asking for.
Wouldn't an important potential downside of an AUM fee-only advisor be that they would discourage you from spending down your portfolio?
This was very informative! Thank you! 😊
If you want to prove that you are worth 25% of the suggested distribution from an investigation, show that you do better than a target-date fund for most people.
You guys are trying too hard to push AUM. I agree on all of your information before but this episode feels like a push. Your firm charges 1.25 percent to start? I would totally focus on do it yourself and pay a fee only advisor closer to retirement. Math doesn’t lie.
That extra .25% is their profit margin. I wonder though how much of the fees a person pays go to their own services and how much is spent on new client acquisition.
Yeah, this episode was pretty much just an advertisement.
Yes, it's obvious they are pushing for fees on AUM advisors. That's how financial advisors can make the most money at the huge expense of the client. If you watch videos explaining how bad fees-on-AUM advisors are, you'll see plenty of comments telling their sad stories about how they got duped. You won't read anything saying they were happy with it.
I’m not a big fan of financial advisors unless it is from the perspective of educating people.
I absolutely hate financial advisors that just invest for people with no explanation. The idea should be that you know exactly what your money is doing.
Financial advisors are good for people with a wide variety of assets with complex tax implications.
Why is the audio so quiet on their live recordings, but normal on their pre-recorded videos?
If your goal for investment only, you don’t need one.
Well now we know Brian watches Critical Drinker 😂
*Modern Audiences*
(Brian’s Troll here) Brian, I do appreciate the free information. I’ve watched the whole video But I can’t get my head around the potential opportunity loss.
Abound Wealth chargers 1.25% of assets under management up to 1 million.
That’s $10,000 a year for an $800,000 portfolio
$10,000 is 125% greater than the allowable $8000 contribution limit to a personal IRA/Roth
$10,000 is 12% of an $85,000 gross income
If im saving 25% of a $85,000 gross income, that $10,000 is 47% of the $21,250 annual retirement savings you recommend.
For comparison, If $10,000 a year was invested in an S&P 500 indexed mutual fund, averaging a historical averaged return of 7%, the potential compounded return…
@10 years, $10,000 = $157,836
I guess I fall under the low income category.
Oh don’t worry, I’m wayyyyy over the threshold, love the money guy, but would never give them my money and pay 1% fee. It’s way way way too costly. 1% fee is roughly 25% of all your gains/profits over 30 years which is nuts.
Best, most helpful episode, yet. 👍
1% fee of Asset Under Management is a scam. Like your example, I am an auto mechanic and you asked me to fix your car. Explain to me why the cost of repair should not depend on the amount of your gross income. Please answer that.
Did anyone hear Brian say "When I wrote my first book"? Does this mean he's got another one on the way. The next title should be "DONT BE A FOO L"
I think if you have a multi million dollar assets and only 5% of it is in the stock market, then a financial advisor would be worth it so you wouldn’t have to worry about that 5% investment.
I've listened to about 100 of your podcasts episodes. This is the first one i did not enjoy.
From the very beginning i could tell it was going to be a commercial for AUM advisors. No thanks. I don't need to pay someone $20K+ per year to rebalance my portfolio.
You didn't really articulate the cons of AUM. You mentioned the commonly cited con (eroding portfolio value) and tried to spin it as a positive, using the vanguard study which is of dubious quality (and contains a major conflict of interest).
Plus the vanguard study didn't differentiate between retainer and AUM. So even if the vanguard study reflects the true value of an advisor, I can get the same benefit out of a retainer-based advisor as I can out of an AUM advisor for potentially tens of thousands of dollars less per year.
Concierge advisors put a lot of the money with their exclusive products
If they are an AUM advisor then this isn't the case.
Not all financial advisors are scoundrels. If your financial advisor isnt a fudiciary, they are a scoundrel. They still might be if they are a fudiciary, so do your due dilligence.
You had me at critical drinking skills.
If I want a "financial advisor" I'll just put my money in a managed mutual fund...
Same thing. Less cost. There are some great performing funds out there that have less than 0.7% expense ratios and no other fees that have returned about 20% average over ranges from 5-20 years.
What can a financial advisor do for me that I cannot do for myself?.. just charge me money.
If I want my oil changed I’ll just do it myself.
I wonder why jiffy lube still exists.
@@burkles4456, yeah. Some people just don't know better, some people don't care.
I can change the oil in my truck for about $46. High quality oil and filter.
My buddy pays almost $90. To get his oil changed with whatever the oil place uses because he doesn't want to deal with it.
It's a different mentality.
I don’t think you watched the video
Not the same thing. What you invest in should be easy (index funds). Tax strategy, retirement drawdown, legacy structure - an advisor may help.
@@burkles4456Jiffy Lube still exists because some people are physically incapable of changing their own oil. Nevermind all the other reasons. Helps to think outside of your own personal experiences
A dumpster fire🔥? No, more like a landfill inferno!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Ridiculousness at its finest.
I was happy with my financial advisor until I learned enough to begin to disagree. Consider that you’re going to retire in less than 4%/year, and you’re going to wait till age 65 to start. You’re going to give someone 1%/year, so 25% of your future retirement income, and they retire today. That’s absolutely wild. How much money would someone have to give you, to sit down and read a few books and watch a UA-cam channel now and then?
Ensure your advisor has a CFP designation and you’ll most likely be in good hands
Oof Kevin been real quiet after this one….. 😂
Only when ur close to retirement. Otherwise…it’s a waste of money.
Which is also when they want you ($500k-$1mill minimum) since they make the most money 🤣. They don’t want you when you don’t have much anyway, lol
They would be good for educational purposes in younger folks for every 5 year review in case they don’t know how to plan for financial goals
@@GunGrave0if you can find someone, sure. But they won’t make any money so most won’t want to bother. Also you truly only need 2-4 funds and that’s it. Set it and forget it. It’s that simple.
Even then it's a waste of money.
@@getinthespace7715 I would probably just pay someone hourly to rebalance and come up with plan for retirement withdrawals. I would NEVER pay a percentage of my investments or anything ridiculous like that. Hell no.
0:11 his because sounds like a parrot - BE-CAWWWS
Lol aren't vanguard and Russell providers of financial advisory services? I'm sure Marlboro would try to sell me on the health benefits of smoking
Proof that Brian watches the Critical Drinker!
Worth it when you want to retire.
Brian has plenty of things he wants to sell...
Are financial advisors worth it? Depends! If you are not financially educated or seeking convenience, the answer is NO! No one cares about your money as much as you do.
I really love your advice and have been listening to you for a while now.... but I don't think you're chart WITH a % AUM advisor is by any means realistic. This is assuming that someone's advisor is outperforming the S&P500 consistently over 25 years, which statistically, is close to a 0% chance of happening.
Maybe the extra performance is from tax savings?
They review a breakdown of the studies suggesting a 3-4% improvement in returns with a financial advisor, and the largest benefit was protection against behavioral errors. Speculation, daytrading, panic-selling/panic-buying are strategies that are going to drastically underperform an always-be-buying-low-cost-diversified-index-funds strategy.
Honestly - this video probably gives an accurate representation of what value an advisor could bring to *the average investor*, but not what value an advisor could bring to *the average Money Guy Show watcher*.
Why use S&P500 as a benchmark comparison? Would anyone want to be 100% invested in S&P500 in retirement? See period from 2000 to 2012 for the answer.
lol this video is such a conflict of interest that I almost respect the disingenuous and self serving nature of the topic.
Breaking news:Financial Advisors tell you Financial Advisors are worth it! Sign up and pay their fees!
Shocker lol
I prefer Drs with critical drinking skills.
Let’s see!
Save, save, save! At least 20% of your income!
S&P 500 Index Funds for your investments!
Get a Will or a Trust!
Become Debt Free!
Max out your HSA!
Invest in Real Estate!
All these are things My Wife and I are doing!
I think I’m ok!
Considering only ~35% of people use financial advisors, clearly if there is any value most feel it is not worth it.
Every advisor I see on UA-cam that goes through their financial planning process starts with ~$1M of investable assets. They know full well that the median (better indicator of most people than averages that are skewed high) is around ~$85K of investable assets. However, FA usually get paid based on AUM, so they literally don't want to help the median client! They are there to serve those with enough investable assets so the FA can live in a 4000 sq ft house and drive a Tesla, Audi, MB, or BMW.
Same with realtors not wanting to have homes sell for lower price because it directly impacts their paychecks, even though its best for both parties. FA aren't necessarily interested in helping those with lower balances bc they won't make enough money.
100% exactly
Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video
Brian and Bo have put almost 20 years of free work into this lol. They are helping the median person
@@Zombiebeast1995great point, agreed. I think they are fantastic and they are genuinely good people. I still would never recommend paying 1+% AUM though. I have a feeling Brian hated doing this video
@@FunStuffBuddy I agree that it is a hefty amount of money, but some people just can’t/don’t want to think about their finances that much to be efficient. Then there’s also the people that may have many moving parts, and again, don’t want to dedicate the time to figuring it out. I am not sure if I’ll use an advisor or not yet. We are 29 and I think I would not think about using one unless I got to around $5M or more, or for some specific advice when I’m nearing retirement.
Commercial
50 minute long advertisement.. i feel embarrassed for asking people to watch your channel. Ramit Sethi needs to react to this asap.
They offer 100% free incredible financial advice basically 7 days a week. And they make one video for people to consider if a FA is worth it? You are the embarrassing one😂
Just looked up Ramit and he literally has a UA-cam short titled, 'When do you hire a Financial Expert'😂😂 He basically says the exact same thing the Money Guys say too. Now THAT is embarassing😂
@@joshalecusan3642 how did it taste? The boot
@pb25193 you're on someone elses page telling another creator (Ramit) to react to their video. And I'm tasting the boot? Oh my
@@joshalecusan3642 yes and also you are incredibly slow. Last time I checked, you are on MY comment licking some boot.