1 - I did limit my FPS via RTSS, I tried v-sync on & off, & enhanced sync isn't on. I mention some of this in the vid 2 - It's possible this is not the experience of everyone, but it is the experience for a lot of people from reading comments online, so if this is not your own experience do not dismiss this as a one-off thing 3 - My own frame generation mod for my RX 5700 XT looked smoother to me than this did: ua-cam.com/video/qBB5FUKjHTw/v-deo.htmlsi=8wTMDwtF1jRYjjLg (but the latency was worse) so it makes me a bit disappointed in AMD. Really hope it's just a Forspoken issue / bug Note: This isn't a comparison video this is a review.
Hi. 2 suggestions to get to the bottom of this: - add a frame time graph overlay, so we can see if it's where the issue is (We really can't judge from a 60fps video capture) - add a comparison where you first cap the frame rate low enough to have a very stable frame time before the frame interpolation step. Then with that it should be possible to find out why it's doing that. If even with stable frame times it still looks choppy, then there is an issue in the interpolation itself in this game. Thanks
@@emisfps it's not public as it's using copyrighted code that I don't entirely own. I can replace it with my own, but given how AMDs version is already out now continuing development sounds pointless, as I doubt a multibillion dollar company would produce something worse than me. My current model has so much latency that it's really only meant for controller, then I have another model with better latency but the frame multiplication isn't great. Pick your poison basically
I tried it on 4090 and it was really bad, but managed to fix it, but i don't know how: - when i enabled Frame Generation the FPS was 120fps but it was really choppy it feeled like 40 fps. - when Frame Generation is enabled you can turn max framerate to 240 fps. It helped a little but it was still choppy. - then i tried to turn off vsync in game and in NV control panel, but it doesnt't help - finally i turned vsync on again in NV control panel and in game and it began to work. 120fps with Frame Generation feeled as 120 FPS. And it is working since i did this
Ask anyone who has a 4000 series gpu they will tell you that is exactly how frame gen feels. If you have over 100fps with frame gen enabled is where it shines.
I wonder if this is due to it being RDNA 1. They stated YMMV with cards below Turing and RDNA 2. Also regarding image the only (obvious?) thing I can notice is her hair/head disappearing when you move the mouse. We’ll see! Thanks for the video tho, good stuff.
RDNA 1 was listed as supported (anything under that was unsupported) and a user on a RTX 2070 Super experienced the same issue along with a RX 6950 user And yes I did notice that as well, but my monitor isn't the clearest in motion so it reduced how obvious it was from me. Watching it on my OLED which has superior motion handling it's more obvious and annoying
How can you say image quality is fine when the moment you shake the screen her hair start heavily artifacting every time, the moment you turn off FSR3 it stops happening. If something like this happens so frequently on a nearby object I can't imagine artifacting in distance or small text.
On my IPS panel I did notice the hair, but it was very subtle. On my OLED panel that I viewed the footage on it's way more obvious. This is because my IPS panel doesn't have nearly as good pixel response times so the motion clarity is worse. I point this out in the video that artifacting can be exasperated by your display. My displays own natural blur hid/reduced the worse parts of it.
@@jotunheim5302 Occasionally, but part of the process. I feel happy to have supported a 3rd entry into the gpu market and the performance in games thus far (with a couple of temporary, and the starfield permanent exceptions) has been very good for the price at 1440p.
I have a 5600XT and it's not placebo or choppy. I'm actually impressed. There is a clear difference between ON and OFF. Just with NATIVE AA and it's way smoother with FG on. With FSR 3 on balanced it's a dream. Sure FreeSync isn't working with v-sync (must be enabled) and the input lag is more noticeable but it's not that bad. I capped the fps to 100 and the frametime is more stable. So increasing from 40-50 fps to 100 is night and day. There's work to be done to enable FreeSync but for older cards it's great.
@@Hybred Well let's consider it's like the first version of FSR. With time it will get better. I'm just surprised that all of 5000 series are compatible. But as an update to my original comment, if I get into battle the FPS drops and the perceived smoothes kinda goes away. It may be the game bad optimisation or this is why not all cards can support FG. There's a limit to how low the real FPS can drop and FG still be effective.
For me, native AA (which is a new AMD tech as well) is bugged and doesn't work correctly with framegen. Also when at the end when you go back to what's your "internal" frame rate you turn off frame gen and change native AA to FSR Quality instead of native lol. For me FSR Quality + Frame gen looks like it should at that FPS and feels like it should at it's native FPS. I wish the game would let you turn on Frame Gen with the game's default AA instead of using their AA which gives an extra performance hit on some level. (I get 20fps performance hit for some reason... more bugs?)
I already tried that, I basically compared FSR Quality + FG vs FSR Performance + Lower settings, same output FPS. The latter produced a smoother looking image
@@Hybred ok after I tried it by myself with my Rx 6700xt I have 2 conclusions: If your fps are above 50 fps, this is a game changer, it's very smooth and the input lag, at least in my case, doesn't have any problem. Now, if you have a card that is not capable of bringing more than 40 fps, this technology won't help anything; in spite of having more than 60 fps, it doesn't feel like it because of the stutter and there are many artifacts.
Even in real time there is tons of noise around the character and her head disappears into the background which you don't have to frame by frame to spot as it is super obvious. I couldn't play like this but some (most?) people won't notice or care though but I guess pointless if it doesn't feel any better like you say.
I noticed issues with her hair/around her head, but they were much smaller on my IPS panel than they were my OLED. Motion clarity is very important for seeing these artifacts. My IPS's own blur makes it harder to spot. Your base framerate matters as well
This is the thing man, people just swallow what there given, the whole point off high frames is the response times you get with it, NOT to watch a number go higher, and another thing about any FSR or DLSS, I have an Asus 165ms 1440p monitor that I paid decent money for, I'm happy playing the latest games native 1440p with 60fps, even locked with chill on, but I didn't spend all that money to play at 1080p upscaled to 1440p, I could have bought a PS5 AND a Series X for the price off the card and the monitor if I wanted that experience.
The difference is that the upscaler (DLSS at least) looks very similar or even better than native and gives you real frames. This frame interpolation is trash because it doesn't even come close to the smoothness of high frames.
@@cesarm.1666 Hmm, 1080p upscaled looking better than native?, I play tarkov, no post fx, while streaming people say "you need post fx on it makes the game look so much better" they proceed to show me their settings and screen, it looks like fortnite....., bloom, fxaa, etc to me it looks like garbage.
@@emma6648Thank you lol. Also this isn't a comparison video it's a review. I'm verbalizing my findings and opinions, but if I could've gone the extra mile and recorded in 120fps I would have, but it wasn't an option
Okey lol but why you shaking that screen all the time? You can explain and we can hear you lol but if we can't see i think just show us one time not all the vid xD
@@marblestoneI was feeling how responsive it felt and seeing how smooth it felt. And also demonstrating the artifact differences which is the one thing you definitely can see
Watched a few of these videos, every reviewer shows a choppy mess and then says how great the frame generation is because it pumps up the fps... you are the first one I watched to actually point out the fact that it a choppy mess.
I suspect 80% of the negative things are to do with the fact that this game still is an unoptimized mess. Frametimes are all over the place, with or without frame generation. The game responds very weird to RTSS frame limiting but also to its internal frame limiter. It's simply a mess. Will see how FSR3 is implemented in other games cause I doubt anyone even cares about Forspoken.
I did that before the video started already, in fact somewhere in the video I recommend people use RTSS to cap there framerate. Thanks for the tip nonetheless brother
recommended at 6000 and rtx 2000 series, don;t cap ur frame rates like DLSS 3 don't even cap ur FPS. turn off sync. enhanced sync causing more artifact, should turn it off. if don;t have higher hertz monitor like 165hz +. well how can u tell about responsiveness?
fsr3 runs using shader compute so I am expecting a lot of angry gamers not understanding the tradeoff. Hopefully it's worth it in cases of extreme cpu bottlenecks
I used it without recording, and I mentioned that RDNA 3 will have better latency. My issue wasn't with latency though, so anti-lag+ wouldn't of solved it
@@Hybred use FSR balance performance, you ve already tested it. It improve smoothness I think this game is broken, because you check that native and native+FG are choopy
It's also the best GPU of the 5000 series though, & the reason AMD has it low is because frame multiplication isn't as good, it shouldn't effect the quality. Someone on a RX 6700 XT and a RX 6950 XT experienced the same issue.
@@Hybred watched other video too, he tested with 4090 and said its perfectly smooth and latency isnt bad at all, seems like it has something to do with it being the top end GPU. Downloading the game now on my laptop with i7-11800H/RTX 3060, Ill test it, I hope its smooth for me
@@Hybred in my case it's working very smoothly, its perfectly fine in terms of looks and basically increases FPS by 70-80%. Cons: increases the latency sometimes almost just as much. I get around 50FPS at a specific preset with 17-20ms and FG gives me 85-90fps with 30ms.
1:20 - "look perfectly fine" Said why her heads keeps disappearing ;D 2d frame gen is just an idiotic idea, it needs to be a temporal solution. Also frame geen needs to sample control input at higher frame rate the same way VR does. I think the tech is idiotic, and flawed to its core, especially since there are better ideas in VR already.
I have a better idea. The title says this is a review, and the description also reiterates this is not but a comparison video, there is already about 8 or more comparison videos out. If that's what you're looking for go there. I decided to do whatever else is already doing as it would add zero value. Second, what I am experiencing is objective, I'm not offering my opinion as much as I am just detailing what's happening. But everyone's experience will change based on their setup, hope yours is better.
@@Hybred That's great but I think you need to also show what you are describing on screen. I clicked on your video expecting this to be an in-depth analysis and review of the technology with graph and all.
The issue that you are experiencing has to do with FSR 3 being broken with VRR (likely freesync in your case). I would advise setting your monitor’s refresh rate below the average FPS and using RTSS to cap the frame rate.
problem is that this game is crappy to begin with and to add fsr3 to a crappy game makes it a complete shitshow so no real test to see how good fs3 is quality wise. They should have made extra effort to add it to cyberpunk to have a good test and neglect forspoken completely.
That's because its a review not a comparison, theirs already comparison videos out there & I don't want to copy, I want to actually give people my thoughts
1 - I did limit my FPS via RTSS, I tried v-sync on & off, & enhanced sync isn't on. I mention some of this in the vid
2 - It's possible this is not the experience of everyone, but it is the experience for a lot of people from reading comments online, so if this is not your own experience do not dismiss this as a one-off thing
3 - My own frame generation mod for my RX 5700 XT looked smoother to me than this did: ua-cam.com/video/qBB5FUKjHTw/v-deo.htmlsi=8wTMDwtF1jRYjjLg (but the latency was worse) so it makes me a bit disappointed in AMD. Really hope it's just a Forspoken issue / bug
Note: This isn't a comparison video this is a review.
Hi. 2 suggestions to get to the bottom of this:
- add a frame time graph overlay, so we can see if it's where the issue is (We really can't judge from a 60fps video capture)
- add a comparison where you first cap the frame rate low enough to have a very stable frame time before the frame interpolation step.
Then with that it should be possible to find out why it's doing that.
If even with stable frame times it still looks choppy, then there is an issue in the interpolation itself in this game.
Thanks
What you experienced is what is expected. Even AMD is like use it if you like but don't.
how can we download your own mod?
@@emisfps it's not public as it's using copyrighted code that I don't entirely own. I can replace it with my own, but given how AMDs version is already out now continuing development sounds pointless, as I doubt a multibillion dollar company would produce something worse than me.
My current model has so much latency that it's really only meant for controller, then I have another model with better latency but the frame multiplication isn't great. Pick your poison basically
How is the new anti aliasing fsr 3 adds?
I tried it on 4090 and it was really bad, but managed to fix it, but i don't know how:
- when i enabled Frame Generation the FPS was 120fps but it was really choppy it feeled like 40 fps.
- when Frame Generation is enabled you can turn max framerate to 240 fps. It helped a little but it was still choppy.
- then i tried to turn off vsync in game and in NV control panel, but it doesnt't help
- finally i turned vsync on again in NV control panel and in game and it began to work. 120fps with Frame Generation feeled as 120 FPS. And it is working since i did this
This guy gets it. Vsync settings are very important for frame gen for both amd and Nvidia.
I tried this out with my 7900XTX and unfortunately it doesn’t feel like 140FPS. Native 70FPS feels more fluent with FG off
Ask anyone who has a 4000 series gpu they will tell you that is exactly how frame gen feels. If you have over 100fps with frame gen enabled is where it shines.
I wonder if this is due to it being RDNA 1. They stated YMMV with cards below Turing and RDNA 2.
Also regarding image the only (obvious?) thing I can notice is her hair/head disappearing when you move the mouse.
We’ll see! Thanks for the video tho, good stuff.
RDNA 1 was listed as supported (anything under that was unsupported) and a user on a RTX 2070 Super experienced the same issue along with a RX 6950 user
And yes I did notice that as well, but my monitor isn't the clearest in motion so it reduced how obvious it was from me. Watching it on my OLED which has superior motion handling it's more obvious and annoying
And how is image quality of fsr 3 quality compared to fsr 2?
You need to know how to do comparisons between 2 different things like a scene from 1 place with fsr 3 and compared to a native
This isn't a comparison video
How can you say image quality is fine when the moment you shake the screen her hair start heavily artifacting every time, the moment you turn off FSR3 it stops happening. If something like this happens so frequently on a nearby object I can't imagine artifacting in distance or small text.
On my IPS panel I did notice the hair, but it was very subtle. On my OLED panel that I viewed the footage on it's way more obvious.
This is because my IPS panel doesn't have nearly as good pixel response times so the motion clarity is worse. I point this out in the video that artifacting can be exasperated by your display. My displays own natural blur hid/reduced the worse parts of it.
Issue on Arc a770 current beta driver, perhaps the WHQL driver too (not had time to test yet) crashing on enabling FSR 3.0 in settings menu.
Well it's an Intel gpu. Crashing in games is the norm.
@@jotunheim5302 Occasionally, but part of the process. I feel happy to have supported a 3rd entry into the gpu market and the performance in games thus far (with a couple of temporary, and the starfield permanent exceptions) has been very good for the price at 1440p.
Have you tried special k mod ? To force reflex on
How would I do that on an AMD GPU?
And I bought special K in the past but refunded due to their DRM not letting me launch it outside of Steam
I have 6700xt choppy for me too when ı turn on fps goes up but still feels like 40-50 fps
What is you monitor?
People are reporting that having enhanced sync enabled in Radeon settings causes the choppiness. Did you have it turned off or on?
Off
I have a 5600XT and it's not placebo or choppy. I'm actually impressed. There is a clear difference between ON and OFF. Just with NATIVE AA and it's way smoother with FG on. With FSR 3 on balanced it's a dream. Sure FreeSync isn't working with v-sync (must be enabled) and the input lag is more noticeable but it's not that bad. I capped the fps to 100 and the frametime is more stable. So increasing from 40-50 fps to 100 is night and day. There's work to be done to enable FreeSync but for older cards it's great.
If done right it can be a bit smoother but you have to hit your panels refresh rate to get the best experience which makes it a bit niche
@@Hybred Well let's consider it's like the first version of FSR. With time it will get better. I'm just surprised that all of 5000 series are compatible. But as an update to my original comment, if I get into battle the FPS drops and the perceived smoothes kinda goes away. It may be the game bad optimisation or this is why not all cards can support FG. There's a limit to how low the real FPS can drop and FG still be effective.
For me, native AA (which is a new AMD tech as well) is bugged and doesn't work correctly with framegen. Also when at the end when you go back to what's your "internal" frame rate you turn off frame gen and change native AA to FSR Quality instead of native lol. For me FSR Quality + Frame gen looks like it should at that FPS and feels like it should at it's native FPS. I wish the game would let you turn on Frame Gen with the game's default AA instead of using their AA which gives an extra performance hit on some level. (I get 20fps performance hit for some reason... more bugs?)
I already tried that, I basically compared FSR Quality + FG vs FSR Performance + Lower settings, same output FPS. The latter produced a smoother looking image
If you don't have a high refresh rate screen and apply proper refresh rate settings, it will look choppy. Same is true for dlss3. User error.
Top of her head just straight up disappears when looking around with frame generation on
It seems like fa3 only works well when the base fps are 60+
Yup. Which mine was (64fps) then later it was 85fps
yes same with dlss 3.0.
Fake frame is smoother and better when the native fps is at least 60.
@@Hybred ok after I tried it by myself with my Rx 6700xt I have 2 conclusions:
If your fps are above 50 fps, this is a game changer, it's very smooth and the input lag, at least in my case, doesn't have any problem.
Now, if you have a card that is not capable of bringing more than 40 fps, this technology won't help anything; in spite of having more than 60 fps, it doesn't feel like it because of the stutter and there are many artifacts.
Even in real time there is tons of noise around the character and her head disappears into the background which you don't have to frame by frame to spot as it is super obvious. I couldn't play like this but some (most?) people won't notice or care though but I guess pointless if it doesn't feel any better like you say.
I noticed issues with her hair/around her head, but they were much smaller on my IPS panel than they were my OLED.
Motion clarity is very important for seeing these artifacts. My IPS's own blur makes it harder to spot. Your base framerate matters as well
This is the thing man, people just swallow what there given, the whole point off high frames is the response times you get with it, NOT to watch a number go higher, and another thing about any FSR or DLSS, I have an Asus 165ms 1440p monitor that I paid decent money for, I'm happy playing the latest games native 1440p with 60fps, even locked with chill on, but I didn't spend all that money to play at 1080p upscaled to 1440p, I could have bought a PS5 AND a Series X for the price off the card and the monitor if I wanted that experience.
The difference is that the upscaler (DLSS at least) looks very similar or even better than native and gives you real frames. This frame interpolation is trash because it doesn't even come close to the smoothness of high frames.
This is one of the dumbest statements Ive read today.
@@cesarm.1666 Hmm, 1080p upscaled looking better than native?, I play tarkov, no post fx, while streaming people say "you need post fx on it makes the game look so much better" they proceed to show me their settings and screen, it looks like fortnite....., bloom, fxaa, etc to me it looks like garbage.
On a phone I can clearly see bad artifacts too when you move the mouse.
where is your PC specs?
Description + GPU mentioned in the video
Hmm you have to use external fps limiter to get rid of janky frame times, but when you do, the latency is just extreme.
What's the point to show us this if you record at 60 fps? What the point to shake like that if you record at 60 fps?
You can’t go any higher on UA-cam so…..what are you trying to say?
@@emma6648Thank you lol.
Also this isn't a comparison video it's a review. I'm verbalizing my findings and opinions, but if I could've gone the extra mile and recorded in 120fps I would have, but it wasn't an option
Okey lol but why you shaking that screen all the time? You can explain and we can hear you lol but if we can't see i think just show us one time not all the vid xD
@@marblestone he testing latency 😀?
@@marblestoneI was feeling how responsive it felt and seeing how smooth it felt.
And also demonstrating the artifact differences which is the one thing you definitely can see
Watched a few of these videos, every reviewer shows a choppy mess and then says how great the frame generation is because it pumps up the fps... you are the first one I watched to actually point out the fact that it a choppy mess.
I suspect 80% of the negative things are to do with the fact that this game still is an unoptimized mess. Frametimes are all over the place, with or without frame generation. The game responds very weird to RTSS frame limiting but also to its internal frame limiter. It's simply a mess. Will see how FSR3 is implemented in other games cause I doubt anyone even cares about Forspoken.
Frametimes are destroyed with FSR 3 enabled thats why it doesn't feel smoother. Maybe limiting the FPS using RTSS can fix this issue
I did that before the video started already, in fact somewhere in the video I recommend people use RTSS to cap there framerate. Thanks for the tip nonetheless brother
@@Hybredlook at AMD’s FSR3 release website. They say to enable Vsync and turn off enhanced sync or you will have frame time pacing issues.
@@brenonweed923I never use enhanced sync and I did try v-sync on
recommended at 6000 and rtx 2000 series, don;t cap ur frame rates like DLSS 3 don't even cap ur FPS. turn off sync. enhanced sync causing more artifact, should turn it off. if don;t have higher hertz monitor like 165hz +. well how can u tell about responsiveness?
fsr3 runs using shader compute so I am expecting a lot of angry gamers not understanding the tradeoff. Hopefully it's worth it in cases of extreme cpu bottlenecks
Bro, I don't think FSR3 is supposed to fix frame-pacing issues. Which is I think why it feels bad. That's why DLSS3 didn't fix Jedi survivor.
Record at 60fps , use gpu that doesnt have anti lag+
Complain about chopyness and latency
Solution : buy rdna 3 gpu!!!
I used it without recording, and I mentioned that RDNA 3 will have better latency. My issue wasn't with latency though, so anti-lag+ wouldn't of solved it
@@Hybred i ve seen on youtube person who use radeon rx 7000 has better 1% low close to avg fps
@@Hybred use FSR balance performance, you ve already tested it. It improve smoothness
I think this game is broken, because you check that native and native+FG are choopy
Your GPU is at the bottom end of the supported ones, that might be the reason its choppy for you and not for some people
It's also the best GPU of the 5000 series though, & the reason AMD has it low is because frame multiplication isn't as good, it shouldn't effect the quality. Someone on a RX 6700 XT and a RX 6950 XT experienced the same issue.
@@Hybred watched other video too, he tested with 4090 and said its perfectly smooth and latency isnt bad at all, seems like it has something to do with it being the top end GPU.
Downloading the game now on my laptop with i7-11800H/RTX 3060, Ill test it, I hope its smooth for me
@@Hybred in my case it's working very smoothly, its perfectly fine in terms of looks and basically increases FPS by 70-80%.
Cons: increases the latency sometimes almost just as much. I get around 50FPS at a specific preset with 17-20ms and FG gives me 85-90fps with 30ms.
This is exactly my same experience
Native 60fps looks better than 240fps FG 🤷♂️
Your card is supported but is not recommended. So there must be a difference.
The best card I've seen experience this issue was a RX 6950 XT on reddit. Maybe its only good on 7000 series?
I feel famous. @@Hybred
Framegen is basically useless then, no point in having higher fps if its not smooth.
1:20 - "look perfectly fine"
Said why her heads keeps disappearing ;D 2d frame gen is just an idiotic idea, it needs to be a temporal solution.
Also frame geen needs to sample control input at higher frame rate the same way VR does.
I think the tech is idiotic, and flawed to its core, especially since there are better ideas in VR already.
Here'ss an idea, get straight to the point and SHOW us the difference with it on and off instead of talking about your own subjective opinion.
I have a better idea.
The title says this is a review, and the description also reiterates this is not but a comparison video, there is already about 8 or more comparison videos out. If that's what you're looking for go there. I decided to do whatever else is already doing as it would add zero value.
Second, what I am experiencing is objective, I'm not offering my opinion as much as I am just detailing what's happening. But everyone's experience will change based on their setup, hope yours is better.
@@Hybred That's great but I think you need to also show what you are describing on screen. I clicked on your video expecting this to be an in-depth analysis and review of the technology with graph and all.
Her hair is disappearing lol. That whole frame gen thing is bugged rn.
Frametime is buggy you have to limit FPS ingame or 3rd pt app, say 120 or 144, if u let it run without vsync or frame limit the frametime is no good.
The issue that you are experiencing has to do with FSR 3 being broken with VRR (likely freesync in your case).
I would advise setting your monitor’s refresh rate below the average FPS and using RTSS to cap the frame rate.
problem is that this game is crappy to begin with and to add fsr3 to a crappy game makes it a complete shitshow so no real test to see how good fs3 is quality wise. They should have made extra effort to add it to cyberpunk to have a good test and neglect forspoken completely.
I agree game feels choppy af
man where is the real gameplay with battle and a lot of effects, you show just static scene its have no sense to understand quality in real gameplay
That's because its a review not a comparison, theirs already comparison videos out there & I don't want to copy, I want to actually give people my thoughts
Enable vsync
Great so Amd wasted entire year (if not more) on this garbage that barely works.
Garbage tech for poor copers continues. Team Green wins, yet again!