A couple notes, I was throwing out a lot of info lol, so let me mention a few more things. These are 1 piece rear main seal blocks, so crankshafts, flexplates, and oil pans are different from the earlier 2 piece rear main engines. At 1:20 I was specifically referring to the 638 blocks. Vortec headed engines came with roller cams and I forgot to mention that. At 7:31 I realize my 638 block has all of these features, but I was specifically referring to how it is less common to have an 880 with all of those features. Let me know if I missed anything!
I got 880 from 97 2500 has fuel pump provisions, all timing cover holes, water pump bypass hole and 4 bolt mains. Got lucky. The vortec heads are not drilled for waterpump bypass if i remember right so you still need some small holes in thermostat even with bypass hole in block with older waterpump.
Sounds like you got a good block! Yes two small holes in the thermostat is a must with Vortec heads, unless you’re running a heater. That will act similar to a bypass I believe.
Some 880 blocks are missing the 2nd from top timing cover bolt holes because the vortec plastic timing covers don't use those holes. I heard they might make a jig to drill mechanical pump holes.
Not sure if you mentioned it but the 638 and the 880 can be found in 2 or 4 bolt mains. I think the 4 bolt blocks are used in heavier, 3/4 and 1 ton, truck applications . The ZZ3 crate used 4 bolt 638 block with steel crank and pink rods, the ZZ4 crate used 4 bolt 880 block with steel crank and powder metal rods, but there may be exceptions.
I did not mention that in the video. Good insight. A lot of info was thrown out in the video, and I figured the comments would mention anything I left out!
Great video. I like to add that you can put an old intake manifold on later heads and leave the inner bolts out. Vortec engines don't have center bolts and they seal just fine.
Craye engines fall under a different category other than what came from the factory. Crate engines usually have the fuel pump mounting boss and hole drilled for the fuel pump push rod. Cause crate engines get installed in older vehicles that use a carburetor. The gm catalogs would say this in the notes. Warranty engines are usually crate engines and also fall under the other than production engine category.
87 is when they moved the dipstick to the driver's side of the block and also when the one piece rear main seal came into play on all engines which was a major upgrade alone and im not sure when the roller blocks came out but again the vortec motors were a major upgrade from the older blocks just the vortec heads alone were a big upgrade but you have to use the vortec intake w vortec heads
WRONG- 86 was with the exception of some late in the year production 85 Vettes, Z28s, and Formula TAs. Dead give away on these is the late 85 and all 86 hybrid V-Belt system which had a fat serpentine style alternator V belt to aid with throwing the alternator belt at higher RPMs.
I’m pulling a 5.3 vortec with 706 heads out of my Silverado.. What are your thoughts on the LS based engines?? Should I sell or keep it?? I heard they are good up to 1200 hp..
@@CarGuyV8I respectfully beg to differ. I have had nothing but problems with LS engines. They break valvetrain components, blow head gaskets and they leak absolutely everywhere. Yes they have decent gas mileage for power output but a V8 in a Silverado is never gonna be better mpg than the 87-95 tbi. I urge you guys to watch ls vs sbc video that the Grubbworm Racing UA-cam channel made on the sbc and ls when it gets down to the cylinder head sealing physics and ther aspects. Made me hate the overrated ls engine even more. People always regurgitate the whole "ls swaps are cheap and easy" and nothing is further from the truth. But if the 5.3 is already in the truck from the factory, leave it.
@@shootermcgavin2819 I personally have nothing against the LS engines, mainly because I’ve never owned a vehicle with one in it. I have noticed they seem to blow head gaskets way more often than SBCs though. Clay recently picked up a 5.3 Yukon XL that had wiped a cam lobe too.
My opinion is that the SBC setups are more robust, sturdier engines. The valve trains are ‘tougher’. The LS engines are ‘easy’. They are the evolution of the SBC. By that I mean, GM must be saving millions of dollars in their production over the old SBC’s. They have it down to such a science, that there is absolutely no aspect of that power plant that is ‘over engineered’. Every portion is taken to just the adequate amount to get the job done. An example would be, the stamped steel rocker arm on the SBC. How often do you come across one of those that is destroyed? LS engines are proven power producers, but the SBC is a solid, sturdy platform. @@CarGuyV8
@shootermcgavin2819 I believe you are either don't know what you are doing or just I'll informed. LS is a far superior engine. The stock lower end can take horsepower and torque a 4 bolt SBC can only dream about. The cylinder heads, from factory, out flow even the best ported SBC heads. As far as leaking oil, my 2009 suburban with 193k miles is clean with no leaks. My 2008 Silverado with 110k, the same. I just drove the suburban yesterday on a 140 mile road trip and averaged 18.4 MPG at 75- 80 mph. No TBI era SBC suburban ever got that at that speed. I think you are just regurgitating what you have been told.
LT1s are similar in some ways but very different in others. I’ve owned a few of them as well. They have a gear drive water pump, also the coolant flows in reverse compared to traditional sbc engines. They all are roller cam engines. Also their heads won’t interchange with other small blocks due to the reverse coolant flow.
That 880 block that you said was the holy Grail block.I believe is a step right before they use them for factory 383 blocks.If you know the casting number , you could Find that out
Yes the HT383 uses the 880 block. I actually pulled that one out and disassembled it a few days after making this video, and it’s a 4 bolt main. Even better!
There are very few difference between the two blocks making them virtually interchangeable. I would like to see a GM product description or spec that identifies the actual differences. So far have not been able to locate one.
@geodes4762 correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the thrust plate difference just one is chamfered for a flush mount flared bolt and the other is secured with a pan head bolt? If I am not mistaken then it shouldn't matter which plate you use, correct?
@@JaviOro1968 Depends on where it is. Most people would scrap a cracked Vortec head, but probably half of every Vortec headed setup on the roads today is cracked.
Stock they flow worse than Vortec heads and 882s, but they flow about the same as the 305 HO heads. That’s not great, but mild porting and they’ll outflow the old camel humps. Charles Servedio on UA-cam has ported them to flow over 270 cfm on the intake side.
They are excellent heads for low end torque. Engines for towing in heavy vehicles are hurt by flow- unless if you want to rev them to make decent torque sacrificing fuel economy. What you said is true for racing, but not towing or moving a heavy vehicle- what is "good" is dependent on application. There is a reason why my "smogger era" 350 I used to have in my 86' Suburban got better fuel economy than my 2013 Yukon XL and the 2013 has a lot of extra things going for it such as SPFI and 6L80 gearing ect.
@@shaun4bigblocks993I run a 1990 iroc head, it’s a cast iron version of the aluminum L98 corvette head. These heads. 14101083 87-up...350..........Gen.I, also used on crate motors, 285 or 300 hp, 64cc chambers. 64cc chambers, had them milled. Vortec hydraulic roller, with a stock piston it gets me 9.7:1. Rebuilt tbi. Larger tbi injectors, custom chip, 7477 factory Ecm. I get 17 mpg at 80 plus on the highway. 3.08 gears I got plenty around town torque, and plenty of rpm’s for 120. I know they don’t flow what vortec heads flow. But I know they work better than the 193 heads. This engine hauls a 4400 pound shot ed around just fine. I can tow an 18 foot trailer with a 3600 pound Camaro without issues. And I can run whatever speed I want down the express lane. I had the 083 heads. Rebuilt them. But I would not waste my time or money on any stock heads vortecs or 193 or any of them when I can get a brand new set of cast heads form summit, that are probably darts with the larger valves an screw in studs. And a stock tbi 350 was good for 210 hp. Even the vortec head 350 engines in 1998 had only 255hp. The factory heads are mediocre at best, if I wanted stock I would not have modified my stuff for more power and better economy. I have three stock rebuildable 350 engines on the stand. I have no plan to use the heads for anything but door stops.
A couple notes, I was throwing out a lot of info lol, so let me mention a few more things.
These are 1 piece rear main seal blocks, so crankshafts, flexplates, and oil pans are different from the earlier 2 piece rear main engines.
At 1:20 I was specifically referring to the 638 blocks. Vortec headed engines came with roller cams and I forgot to mention that.
At 7:31 I realize my 638 block has all of these features, but I was specifically referring to how it is less common to have an 880 with all of those features.
Let me know if I missed anything!
I recently built an 880 with all the roller equipment and the fuel pump boss, pulled it from a 95 truck, it has worked out great as a 383.
I got 880 from 97 2500 has fuel pump provisions, all timing cover holes, water pump bypass hole and 4 bolt mains. Got lucky. The vortec heads are not drilled for waterpump bypass if i remember right so you still need some small holes in thermostat even with bypass hole in block with older waterpump.
Sounds like you got a good block! Yes two small holes in the thermostat is a must with Vortec heads, unless you’re running a heater. That will act similar to a bypass I believe.
Great video brother, subscribed all the way over here in New Zealand
Thank you!
Some 880 blocks are missing the 2nd from top timing cover bolt holes because the vortec plastic timing covers don't use those holes. I heard they might make a jig to drill mechanical pump holes.
Good info. Thank you for watching.
Not sure if you mentioned it but the 638 and the 880 can be found in 2 or 4 bolt mains. I think the 4 bolt blocks are used in heavier, 3/4 and 1 ton, truck applications . The ZZ3 crate used 4 bolt 638 block with steel crank and pink rods, the ZZ4 crate used 4 bolt 880 block with steel crank and powder metal rods, but there may be exceptions.
I did not mention that in the video. Good insight. A lot of info was thrown out in the video, and I figured the comments would mention anything I left out!
Great video. I like to add that you can put an old intake manifold on later heads and leave the inner bolts out. Vortec engines don't have center bolts and they seal just fine.
I’ve never done this, but I’d imagine that would create quite an oil leak with those center bolt holes. Did you just rtv them up?
@@CarGuyV8 rtv the center, yes. no problems
I have an 880 block, it has a core plug blocking the mechanical fuel pump pushrod hole.
Craye engines fall under a different category other than what came from the factory. Crate engines usually have the fuel pump mounting boss and hole drilled for the fuel pump push rod. Cause crate engines get installed in older vehicles that use a carburetor. The gm catalogs would say this in the notes.
Warranty engines are usually crate engines and also fall under the other than production engine category.
87 is when they moved the dipstick to the driver's side of the block and also when the one piece rear main seal came into play on all engines which was a major upgrade alone and im not sure when the roller blocks came out but again the vortec motors were a major upgrade from the older blocks just the vortec heads alone were a big upgrade but you have to use the vortec intake w vortec heads
WRONG- 86 was with the exception of some late in the year production 85 Vettes, Z28s, and Formula TAs. Dead give away on these is the late 85 and all 86 hybrid V-Belt system which had a fat serpentine style alternator V belt to aid with throwing the alternator belt at higher RPMs.
I have that same exact 880 block. I guess they are pretty rare
Nice explanation video dam my 880 don’t have mechanical fuel pump…electric it is
Thanks for watching.
I think there is a jig to drill fuel pump holes
I’m pulling a 5.3 vortec with 706 heads out of my Silverado.. What are your thoughts on the LS based engines?? Should I sell or keep it?? I heard they are good up to 1200 hp..
That’s a good engine. The 706 heads are great heads. You can’t go wrong with an LS. Easy reliable hp.
@@CarGuyV8I respectfully beg to differ. I have had nothing but problems with LS engines. They break valvetrain components, blow head gaskets and they leak absolutely everywhere. Yes they have decent gas mileage for power output but a V8 in a Silverado is never gonna be better mpg than the 87-95 tbi. I urge you guys to watch ls vs sbc video that the Grubbworm Racing UA-cam channel made on the sbc and ls when it gets down to the cylinder head sealing physics and ther aspects. Made me hate the overrated ls engine even more. People always regurgitate the whole "ls swaps are cheap and easy" and nothing is further from the truth.
But if the 5.3 is already in the truck from the factory, leave it.
@@shootermcgavin2819 I personally have nothing against the LS engines, mainly because I’ve never owned a vehicle with one in it. I have noticed they seem to blow head gaskets way more often than SBCs though. Clay recently picked up a 5.3 Yukon XL that had wiped a cam lobe too.
My opinion is that the SBC setups are more robust, sturdier engines. The valve trains are ‘tougher’. The LS engines are ‘easy’. They are the evolution of the SBC. By that I mean, GM must be saving millions of dollars in their production over the old SBC’s. They have it down to such a science, that there is absolutely no aspect of that power plant that is ‘over engineered’. Every portion is taken to just the adequate amount to get the job done. An example would be, the stamped steel rocker arm on the SBC. How often do you come across one of those that is destroyed? LS engines are proven power producers, but the SBC is a solid, sturdy platform.
@@CarGuyV8
@shootermcgavin2819
I believe you are either don't know what you are doing or just I'll informed. LS is a far superior engine. The stock lower end can take horsepower and torque a 4 bolt SBC can only dream about. The cylinder heads, from factory, out flow even the best ported SBC heads. As far as leaking oil, my 2009 suburban with 193k miles is clean with no leaks. My 2008 Silverado with 110k, the same. I just drove the suburban yesterday on a 140 mile road trip and averaged 18.4 MPG at 75- 80 mph. No TBI era SBC suburban ever got that at that speed. I think you are just regurgitating what you have been told.
Going to look at a lt1 5.7 would this apply to that block as well ?
Checking it out this week . Thanks
LT1s are similar in some ways but very different in others. I’ve owned a few of them as well. They have a gear drive water pump, also the coolant flows in reverse compared to traditional sbc engines. They all are roller cam engines. Also their heads won’t interchange with other small blocks due to the reverse coolant flow.
That 880 block that you said was the holy Grail block.I believe is a step right before they use them for factory 383 blocks.If you know the casting number , you could Find that out
Yes the HT383 uses the 880 block. I actually pulled that one out and disassembled it a few days after making this video, and it’s a 4 bolt main. Even better!
Useful information. I wonder what Mr.Vizard was doing to crack a block, too much compression, too many revs, boost?
No clue but I’m sure he was quite rough on the engine. I’d bet some really high revs.
Hey, do me a big favor- on your 880 crate engine block what did GM stamp in the ID pad located above the passenger side water pump?
The last 2 numbers are hard kinda faded, but I believe it is V0807F34.
One thing thats different between the 880 and the 638 is the cam retainer plate. They are different. The 638 retainer is hard to find.
Interesting. Good to know
There are very few difference between the two blocks making them virtually interchangeable. I would like to see a GM product description or spec that identifies the actual differences. So far have not been able to locate one.
@geodes4762 correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the thrust plate difference just one is chamfered for a flush mount flared bolt and the other is secured with a pan head bolt? If I am not mistaken then it shouldn't matter which plate you use, correct?
Thanks!
I like that OBS in your profile picture
@@CarGuyV8 Thanks man!
We’re is your shop
Can you bore a 880 block .060 over ?
Most of them yes. It’s a good idea to get them sonic tested first.
What about a 602 crate
There are other roller block casting numbers as well. I was just talking about the most common ones to come across.
Do u think a hair line small crack on a vortec head be. Fix or cause problems ?
@@JaviOro1968 Depends on where it is. Most people would scrap a cracked Vortec head, but probably half of every Vortec headed setup on the roads today is cracked.
@@CarGuyV8 crack between the water jacket and head bolt hair line crack
@@JaviOro1968 hmmm I’d be worried that water will get in the combustion chamber
You are the first persons that says anything good about 193 heads. They are swirl port heads and pretty useless for anything other than stock.
Stock they flow worse than Vortec heads and 882s, but they flow about the same as the 305 HO heads. That’s not great, but mild porting and they’ll outflow the old camel humps. Charles Servedio on UA-cam has ported them to flow over 270 cfm on the intake side.
They are excellent heads for low end torque. Engines for towing in heavy vehicles are hurt by flow- unless if you want to rev them to make decent torque sacrificing fuel economy. What you said is true for racing, but not towing or moving a heavy vehicle- what is "good" is dependent on application. There is a reason why my "smogger era" 350 I used to have in my 86' Suburban got better fuel economy than my 2013 Yukon XL and the 2013 has a lot of extra things going for it such as SPFI and 6L80 gearing ect.
@@shaun4bigblocks993I run a 1990 iroc head, it’s a cast iron version of the aluminum L98 corvette head.
These heads.
14101083
87-up...350..........Gen.I, also used on crate motors, 285 or 300 hp, 64cc chambers.
64cc chambers, had them milled. Vortec hydraulic roller, with a stock piston it gets me 9.7:1.
Rebuilt tbi. Larger tbi injectors, custom chip, 7477 factory Ecm. I get 17 mpg at 80 plus on the highway. 3.08 gears I got plenty around town torque, and plenty of rpm’s for 120.
I know they don’t flow what vortec heads flow. But I know they work better than the 193 heads. This engine hauls a 4400 pound shot ed around just fine. I can tow an 18 foot trailer with a 3600 pound Camaro without issues.
And I can run whatever speed I want down the express lane.
I had the 083 heads. Rebuilt them. But I would not waste my time or money on any stock heads vortecs or 193 or any of them when I can get a brand new set of cast heads form summit, that are probably darts with the larger valves an screw in studs.
And a stock tbi 350 was good for 210 hp. Even the vortec head 350 engines in 1998 had only 255hp.
The factory heads are mediocre at best, if I wanted stock I would not have modified my stuff for more power and better economy.
I have three stock rebuildable 350 engines on the stand. I have no plan to use the heads for anything but door stops.
💥😎💥