3D Printed Composite Bracket Versus Machined Steel |The Cool Parts Show #41

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  • Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
  • There are many small metal parts in use today that don’t necessarily need to be metal - but for decades, machining these components from a metal blank has been the fastest, most cost-effective way to make them. 9T Labs has developed a composite manufacturing process utilizing 3D printing that aims to challenge this. By applying thermoplastic and continuous carbon fiber to reinforce the material only where needed, the company can create parts that are much lighter and even cheaper than a metal alternative, while still being strong enough to do the job. In this episode of The Cool Parts Show, we pit a composite bracket for a helicopter hinge against its machined steel counterpart.
    This episode brought to you by Carpenter Additive. www.carpentera...
    LEARN MORE ABOUT:
    - 9T Labs www.additivema...
    - The Red Series technology and applications for this solution www.additivema...
    - Other examples of 3D printed brackets www.additivema...
    - Another lift test with a composite 3D printed hook www.additivema...
    - Wagner Machine in Norton, Ohio, site of the lift test wagnermachine....
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    Tell us about it! Email coolparts@additivemanufacturing.media or comment below. 
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 177

  • @AdditiveManufacturing
    @AdditiveManufacturing  Рік тому +10

    Hey all, thanks for watching!
    For those asking about the tooling, yes, the compression mold is a significant up-front investment for a part like this. But keep in mind that this bracket would be produced in volumes of 1,000s per year which lowers the tooling cost per part.
    For more info, shout out to Yannick Willemin our episode expert who is answering questions in the comments. (Also find him on LinkedIn! www.linkedin.com/in/yannickwillemin/)
    You can also read more about the 9T Labs technology in this article by Stephanie Hendrixson:
    www.additivemanufacturing.media/articles/fiber-reinforced-3d-printing-expands-control-applications-for-composites

    • @Emma-ol7kf
      @Emma-ol7kf Рік тому +2

      just thousands a year? So you make like 4 a day ?

    • @G53X0Y0Z0
      @G53X0Y0Z0 Рік тому +2

      Those 3D plastic ("carbon fiber") brackets are not as strong and durable as the steel parts. If these plastic parts are strong enough for the task, the steel parts are way over engineered , and could have been replaced with an aluminum extruded/machined version that would be light and strong, and I can guarantee that they could be produced more economically (even with batches of 1,000's). This plug for 3D printed parts is misleading, to say the least. I'm not saying the idea doesn't have merit, but this example is really stretching reality.

    • @kimjoseph5668
      @kimjoseph5668 Рік тому

      @@Emma-ol7kf I believe they mean 1000s of the bracket shown in the video, they should have orders for other parts. I guess

  • @DmitryZaprudnov
    @DmitryZaprudnov Рік тому +10

    So emotional.
    Ok.
    What about impact strength?
    What about strength after overload?
    How many parts you need to produce to make printed-molded parts cheaper then machined parts?
    Repeatability?
    UV resistance?
    Tolerances?
    Abrasiv wear resistance?
    Low/hight temperature resistance?
    Why steel part doesn't have pockets for weight saving?
    As a new method of manufacturing its great, but comparing with steel looks like you just try to sell this technology.

  • @BHARGAV_GAJJAR
    @BHARGAV_GAJJAR Рік тому

    are there metal inserts in the plastic part ? that will change stress distribution

  • @glennalexon1530
    @glennalexon1530 Рік тому

    That steel part should have been aluminum if the strength wasn't required. It should also be welded from two parts, rather than machined. Welding an aluminum version would have been cheap and fast.

  • @odderret
    @odderret Рік тому

    So so good! Thank you for the education! The bottleneck for this technology is awareness and you are solving that! +1 Sub!

  • @alexeymalafeev6167
    @alexeymalafeev6167 Рік тому +48

    For non-critical parts like this, it looks incredible. Of course, the steel part might have been an aluminum part for some weight savings, or have been made out of a smaller gauge. Looking at the gauge and cross sectional area of the steel part, I would estimate it has a minimum breaking strength that's probably around 7-9K lbs. An M8 8.8 bolt specs at around 6.5K lbs, and the amount of cross sectional area on the steel part is larger than an m8 bolt. I don't doubt that the fine engineers at 9T specced the part to appropriate strength and it will result in meaningful savings both on fuel costs and part costs, but it's somewhat unfair to say it has the "same strength". Testing a part once to the load strength does not make an appropriate test -- there needs to be at minimum a certain safety factor measured, and the material wear characteristics at repeated expected load to estimate the expected lifetime of the part, as the fatigue characteristics of a steel part are such that you could spec a part for what is effectively an infinite lifespan. Similarly, low and high temperature operations for various steel alloys are something that is well studied and predictable, and
    At the minimum, a destructive test to determine an N=1 MBS would have been great to see.
    In general I think for parts where space dimension vs performance tradeoffs are not critical, and repeated loads, temperature or stress don't play a limiting factor, a process like the one 9T Labs created will result on very meaningful innovation and weight savings for certain industries. I look forward the day when we actually start seeing high load cycle parts like a connecting rod in an engine made out of composite parts, but I think we're still quite a ways away from that.
    As another thought, machining that part might not be the cost effective solution -- looks like a 4 axis job. I imagine two parts welded together would be much more economical.

    • @mennovanlavieren3885
      @mennovanlavieren3885 Рік тому +4

      Comparing an un-optimized to a part that got a lot of love is not really apples to apples. Still awesome technology. The random and fault sensitive processes that are sometimes used to put down fibers make me cringe. Like how they lay down mats of the stuff in the example video.

    • @graealex
      @graealex Рік тому +1

      @@mennovanlavieren3885 I agree, I always wonder how much it is deterministic, and how much is simply safety margin that was pre-planned, so production can be a little inconsistent without everything exploding immediately.
      When you see people laying down the fibers with a roller and some rather random amount and distribution of resin... is this what peak performance looks like?

  • @SimonAmazingClarke
    @SimonAmazingClarke 2 роки тому +62

    As an Aircraft Design Weights Engineer I can say that this is amazing. One thingvthat you might have missed. The steel parts need painting, the composite parts might not. That is another potential weight saving.
    I lobe the idea that the Carbon is only installed where it is needed and the Polimer just holds it in place.

    • @artomatica
      @artomatica Рік тому +5

      Problem with 3d printed composites is they will probably will end up in the ocean. So, SLS metal printing is the way to go for production in my opinion. You still can have optimised shape, but the part is much more recyclable.

    • @appa609
      @appa609 Рік тому +15

      Stainless doesn't need paint.
      Most composites do because of photodegredation.

    • @mennovanlavieren3885
      @mennovanlavieren3885 Рік тому +5

      @@artomatica This is an aerospace application. A niche application where these economies make sense, as Yannick said. Recycling would be a big concern for mass produced items like production cars. And parts for home use were regulation is minimal. The aerospace industry is already regulated to dead, so a little more regulation to ensure carbon fibers in old aircrafts are scraped properly would not be a problem an might already exist in adequate form.
      The application of fibers (carbon or otherwise) in a lot of mass applications that don't really need them is a concern to me.

    • @mzivtins
      @mzivtins Рік тому

      @@appa609 Absolutely, i was going to say this

    • @zenginellc
      @zenginellc Рік тому

      ​@FedEXfright This is a new specific process, so it's not "been around for a while".
      What HAS is fully mixed carbon-fiber composites, and you are more than capable of researching it for yourself if you're that concerned.

  • @PaulGreggBYRC
    @PaulGreggBYRC Рік тому +3

    First, just because the metal and 3D printed parts both held 500 pounds doesn't mean they are equivalent. That would be like saying a Volkswagen and a Ferrari are equivalent because they can both go 30 miles per hour. Why didn't you test both parts to failure so you could know if they were really "equivalent?"
    Second, how does the part do at it's temperature extremes, in dynamic shock and in fatigue? The steel part might be designed to yield in a high strain event, like a crash, and not fail. How does the printed composite part do in a crash? You need to find out the requirements for a part before you propose alternatives. Is there an electrical conductivity requirement for helicopter doors, in the event of a lightning strike? This would add weight and cost to the printed hinges. Maybe these issues were all addressed by 9T, but it wasn't presented.
    It may be true that the printed composite part is 1/5th the weight of the steel part, but the printed part may be 1/5th the strength, or stiffness, or have 1/100th the strain capability. Until you do the engineering, you don't know.

  • @jay-by1se
    @jay-by1se Рік тому +2

    That's a $100k mold. You can just compression mold this whole thing with forged. Everything you are saying is a lie. All of Lamborghini is forged carbon.

  • @aimlessweasel
    @aimlessweasel 2 роки тому +15

    Very interesting process. I'm curious about the type of QA inspection required for the AM part. The billet steel part is probably just a pair of calipers and the CMTR's. With the AM part I would imagine they would want component measurements before assembly/ molding, and possibly UT or RT to check density (and verify presence & placement of the carbon reinforcement). Thanks again for the great content, and good on Carpenter for sponsoring this episode even though it doesn't involve powdered metal.

    • @MrBen527
      @MrBen527 2 роки тому +1

      I would hope occasional x-ray and or ultrasonic testing also

    • @aimlessweasel
      @aimlessweasel 2 роки тому

      @@AdditiveManufacturing, thanks for the response. Your level of engagement is really impressive. Looking forward to your next videos. Regarding the inspections, I was thinking their targeted run sizes would be too small for SPC and lot inspection would be 100% (especially for something going airborne). Since they are specifically going after the high strength/ lightweight/ relatively simple geometry it seems that would make the QA more demanding than typical FDM parts. Even if the total cost was higher than the steel part, 1/5th the weight is remarkable. There's the old adage about aerospace parts being ready once the paperwork outweighs the part... though in this case I suspect the paperwork for the 3D printed part would be 5x the steel version. Great combination of processes though, and definitely opens up new applications.

    • @23justbob
      @23justbob Рік тому

      Also very helpful would be the approximate UTS of material

    • @allenklingsporn6993
      @allenklingsporn6993 Рік тому

      @@MrBen527 CT is already a more robust inspection than x-ray or UT. No need to double up on the NDE cost for such a simple part.

  • @anterprites
    @anterprites Рік тому +8

    What could be interesting is that when you reduce weight of parts by replacing them with polymer parts as presented here, it may lead to reduced need for strength, as whole assembly gets lighter, so you can reduce strength and etc to the limit ofc. So potential for recursive savings :d

  • @darisonvincent597
    @darisonvincent597 2 роки тому +4

    Why don't they use a injection molding with reinforced carbon fibre in it !

    • @yannickwillemin7825
      @yannickwillemin7825 2 роки тому

      We are doing this. We name it hybrid AM when we combine a printed preform with overinjection, but also with overmoulding using BMCs, ...

  • @FrancoisTCS
    @FrancoisTCS 2 роки тому +5

    why not comparing to a metal AdM part after topology optimization also in parallel to original machined part?

    • @yannickwillemin7825
      @yannickwillemin7825 2 роки тому

      Good point. From a technical point of view, it would be very interesting. However, the business case for serial part manufacturing with metal AdM is challenging due to its costs.

  • @russellcollins5692
    @russellcollins5692 Рік тому +1

    Always a good idea to find ways to fill our environment with more Plastic.
    And its So Cheap! Yeah……
    At least the Tooling can be melted back down to retrieve some off the costs for a failure off an idea.
    Lets put the Environmental Cost into this equation not to mention Safety Margins, metals fail gracefully unlike synthetic’s.

  • @diconicabastion5790
    @diconicabastion5790 2 роки тому +4

    He talks about cost but notice how they avoid the cost of the additional tooling. Also biggest part about 3D printing is Joe Schmoe can do it in his garage or home and he most likely couldn't if he needed tooling like molds. What's the life time of the part vs the metal part.

    • @yannickwillemin7825
      @yannickwillemin7825 Рік тому +2

      Dear Diconica, thanks for picking up the point of the tooling cost. It is very important to understand that we are developing a manufacturing standard meant for volume production (1'000 to 100'000 parts per year). The tooling is definitely necessary to fulfill all functional requirements for structural parts and has a minor impact on the cost per part given the volumes. This technology is interesting for major OEMs in the mobility, medical, and leisure field and definitely not (as you are correctly describing) for individuals looking for an accessible 3d-printing technology.
      For this exact part, no lifetime study is yet available. However, the customer is benchmarking all characteristics with the current metal part. For other parts, we have proven that our parts cope with the lifetime tests (X cyclic loads equals a certain lifetime).
      Please contact us if you would like additional precisions.

  • @joshgray1331
    @joshgray1331 Рік тому +1

    Include the cost of having a "simple" compression A/B mold actually doing the finish work please. You are giving a lot of people bad ideas that their desktop 3D printer can produce your results. Not cool. Actually, dangerous.

  • @johndennis3181
    @johndennis3181 Рік тому +1

    I question the cost calms, what it the volume being made? That mold cost the same as hundreds of them steel parts and what about time, time is money. How many printers would you need to keep up with one CNC machine?

  • @javis9950
    @javis9950 Рік тому +2

    I do not believe these two parts are comparable on technical levels, strength and overall conditional limitations. What T9 labs is doing may be very powerful for aerospace but not for common part manufacturing where's milling can. Thank you for brining them to light for the rest of us to see.

  • @appa609
    @appa609 Рік тому +6

    The thing about that steel bracket is yes it's expensive if you mill it out of a solid block. But I can make that part with plate stock, a drill press, and a welding jig.
    If it was aluminium I'd machine straight from T-extrusion

    • @xhappymasksalesmenx4092
      @xhappymasksalesmenx4092 Рік тому +2

      Unfortunately skills like yours are disappearing. That’s the real problem. I’ve machinist outright refuse to teach younger people. Don’t know the full reason behind it but I speculate companies are trying to have lots of new people to pay them less and get rid of the older people that are experts

    • @VEC7ORlt
      @VEC7ORlt Рік тому

      Your tinfoil hat is too tight.

  • @JSADD3D
    @JSADD3D Рік тому +2

    Like this video~~ So Perfect

  • @graealex
    @graealex Рік тому +1

    Poor Yannick with his VGA webcam, has always more to say about something.

  • @davidcart28
    @davidcart28 Рік тому +1

    The bigger question is witch one is recyclable ONLY ONE

  • @DingoAteMeBaby
    @DingoAteMeBaby 2 роки тому +8

    This is like the QVC of additive manufacturing products

  • @Dal-gom
    @Dal-gom Рік тому +1

    But that aluminum part can be machined by the $3000 CNC. I want to know the way you calculate the cost.

  • @koolsolutionszx12r55
    @koolsolutionszx12r55 Рік тому +1

    Add heat to both parts while testing. Also lets see a side load test.

  • @chikokishi7030
    @chikokishi7030 Рік тому +1

    Im Pete.
    Im Stephanie.
    Lmao so simple and i love it

  • @jayalejandro324
    @jayalejandro324 Рік тому +2

    Can this part be welded on the field? Can it be repaired with glue or heat or both?

  • @bwilliams1815
    @bwilliams1815 Рік тому +2

    I understand what you are saying about the tooling cost being eliminated by volume but another problem is cost of raw material. In general for our engineering shop, engineered polymers are more expensive than ferrous metals. As new polymers become tested, their costs increases. How do we then deal with this challenge?

  • @AUS5113
    @AUS5113 Рік тому +2

    I am no engineer but not every application is best suited for 3d printed part. That was just a simple lift test but what about if the part was banged into creating lateral forces. That would be a whole different story in my opinion. I would stick with the machined part.

  • @kimjoseph5668
    @kimjoseph5668 Рік тому +1

    From the method of making this product, looks like mechanical properties of material is not isotropic? Is it worth it to create a method to make the material of carbon fiber product isotropic?

    • @AdditiveManufacturing
      @AdditiveManufacturing  Рік тому +1

      Good questions, thank you. Here's a response from 9T Labs:
      On the first question: definitely, and this is why we use continuous fiber composites as it allows to reinforce the part specifically along the load path. This is one of the main advantages of such materials.
      On the second question: Using continuous fiber materials with the goal to have an isotropic material behaviour is contradictory. In some application, one might add short fiber material to decrease the anisotropy, but it is not possible to make it completely isotropic.

    • @kimjoseph5668
      @kimjoseph5668 Рік тому

      @@AdditiveManufacturing Thank you for answering my question. Just out of curiosity, as the mechanical properties in transverse direction is not based on carbon fiber at all, is it worth to create a manufacturing method to let carbon fiber to share some load in transverse direction as well?

  • @bigclint2487
    @bigclint2487 Рік тому +2

    Now you can improve your design or share it for viewers to bring you a best design. Next option compression tests. Lightest beam to hold 1000kg and such. I like the material science. Thank you for your hard work.

  • @rens0144
    @rens0144 2 роки тому +3

    Helicopter part I.E probable cyclic loading. We all know that composite/3d printed metal parts have almost no fatigue limit and would be almost useless in high cycle repetative loading.

    • @yannickwillemin7825
      @yannickwillemin7825 Рік тому +1

      This helicopter part definitely has serious cyclic loading induced from the vibrations. There are already lots of composite parts developed and performing well in heavy cyclic load applications. Of course, this is part of the part design work and requires lots of lab testing before getting qualified. But it is definitely possible.

    • @hayden9944
      @hayden9944 Рік тому

      Composite parts have extremely high fatigue life. Remember this part is build from multiple parts - remoulded together. IF designed correctly with fibre orientation this could outlast the steel. Remember also if made from PEEK (more expensive then silver by weight) it will be high temp, strong, durable, chemical resistant, low moisture absorption etc.
      It’s all about the design really - but if re-moulded then you remove the weak z layer bonding and really create some strong, high temp, high fatigue life parts

  • @blacktech5154
    @blacktech5154 Рік тому +1

    What about the mold cost, for the compression step? They dont seem to have a business case once you have to take this into consideration.

  • @Emma-ol7kf
    @Emma-ol7kf Рік тому

    the mold COMPLETELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE.. JUST INJECT THE PLASTIC what benefit do you have by printing it before hand? When you also need a custom machined precision cavity mold "non" injection machine? just a mold compression machine? How is that any cheaper? Its just mold making with extra steps.

  • @opelwasp
    @opelwasp Рік тому

    This is laughable. Neat but it practicality is laughable. Each mold costs 10s of thousands of dollars. That is for each part and for every revision to an existing part. As opposed to cnc plasma cutters and cnc tig welders that have a one time purchase cost and computer programs to design and cut out parts repeatedly. Upfront cost is less and continuing costs are less. Making parts in aluminum almost negates any weight savings. Plus, saving 4/5th the weight off parts that account for only 1/1000th the weight of the finished product is spectacularly useless.

  • @portblock
    @portblock Рік тому

    I call BS, 1/2 the price to produce? In the shops I managed, if you brought the print for that part, I would produce it out of steel or stainless for about $23, that mold alone cost about $100k - yea I know large quantity orders, but it comes down to the mold yield, how many parts can run through the mold. $100k divided by that number. at low volumes of 100k units, CNC machining is still cheaper and faster. - is it a better part? maybe, but that whole 1/2 price is BS

  • @Walt1119
    @Walt1119 Рік тому

    As far as cost, I find it hard to imagine the composite part being more cost effective because of the “elephant in the room”,, the need for a mold and that mold has to be machined. Strength is questionable too, as it’s “multi part” fused together, in the test, the weight is pulling in one direction, straight down, that isn’t how a door hinge should be tested. And lastly, especially on a helicopter which a lot of times is described as a collection of parts all trying very hard to explode away from each other in all different directions. This isn’t taking into account the thermal changes involved. Composite printing is truly amazing and industry changing, but I do see flaws in this part as “manufactured” to stack up against a 1 piece machined piece of steel.. Great video, thanks so much for sharing with us!

  • @SylvesterOziomek
    @SylvesterOziomek Рік тому

    This composite part is so not cheaper and so not faster to make. This is biased comparison design to make make that composite part look good: steel part is plain steel not an alloy and the composite part unlike steel is optimised for weight saving.
    If you want to be fair compare that 3D printed composite part with:
    1. weight optimised alloy machined part
    2. weight optimised engineering plastic machined part (with metal inserts)
    3. weight optimised composite 3D printed part (with metal inserts)
    4. weight optimised composite 3D forged part (with metal inserts)
    5. same composite part without post processing in the compression molding
    This is not a revolution but a niche technology and it will stay this way

  • @benthurber5363
    @benthurber5363 Рік тому

    The original bracket is overkill and probably could have been sheet metal or just copy-pasted out of alloy if ~400 kg of tension was acceptable.
    No wonder helicopters are so expensive. Like, who the heck makes a door hinge that has to be machined out of a solid billet of stainless steel?

  • @volvo245
    @volvo245 Рік тому

    Composites do have a fatal flaw which will come up in daily use and abuse, especially in military, EMS and industrial use: They can't take a hit and maintain their designed original mechanical propertues due to delamination and fracture propagation. This is well known problem with high end bicycle frames that get knocked against rocks etc. and can develop fractures that slowly develop over time and then catastrophically fail all at once often at the worst possible moment.

  • @christophershafer5615
    @christophershafer5615 Рік тому

    This seems like the FDM portion is completely unnecessary. Why would you not fixture your components/pattern in the tooling that is already in use and skip the printing portion altogether?
    Designing for support the static load is the bare minimum of any bracket. How does this hold up to the many fatigue cycles of opening the door and also all of the vibrations during flight? I am also assuming that the plastic can handle the extreme temperature fluctuations between takeoff and landing.

  • @gerrykavanagh
    @gerrykavanagh Рік тому

    This is automated additive manufacturing... calling it 3D printing just because it involves extruders sort of created a misleading view of how this works.

  • @alfredocuomo1546
    @alfredocuomo1546 Рік тому

    I can't speak for everything but a fire arm that is fiber reinforced Polymer Vs. a steel gun I will take steel any day especially if either were exposed to a squib load. Also the metal bracket was it a MIM part or machined from a single block of steel if the later I would love to see both brackets exposed to lateral & Shear stress.

  • @josephjones4293
    @josephjones4293 Рік тому

    Late to the party, but i think a stoopid study needs to be conducted before parts like this can be used in the field… gotta get the dumbest operator you can find to abuse the use cases and figure out how many cycles it can withstand. This part looks like it would fail in 10-15 cycles under stoopid test conditions… then an analysis of downtime vs per part savings etc… if it still works out sure

  • @CascaydAzgard
    @CascaydAzgard Рік тому

    Biodegradble polymer and recover and reuse of resources would be ideal for this. Not saying I know enough about this stuff but we already have enough problems because of plastic do we not?

  • @glennalexon1530
    @glennalexon1530 Рік тому

    Resin should probably be infused, not "infiltrated". Unless the fabric is occupying a defensive position...

  • @jmkikkawa
    @jmkikkawa Рік тому

    To be put into helicopter service this part would need to demonstrate much more than just equal strength. Is the part exposed to sunlight and is the part UV resistant? Does the composite fatigue or become brittle over time? Is the composite resistant to exposure to the various oils that are used in the helicopter and which could end up coating the part? Does the part fail suddenly or gradually? How is the strength dependent on temperature?

  • @mikolajr4700
    @mikolajr4700 Рік тому

    I think that the test was not sufficient, first it only showed it can work at given weight, but not when it fail. So stating they are the same is false without knowing that. Another thing are different force directions like picking on rotating. There far too little information for me to buy into this. This sounded like advertisement. A great potential to interesting movie but I dont like execution.

  • @_aullik
    @_aullik Рік тому

    I really enjoy the engineering parts here, however the "discussion" between you 2 feels really scripted and thus does subtracts more from the video than it adds.

  • @jesseyoung7855
    @jesseyoung7855 Рік тому

    I understand why weight would be a major factor for this application, but when it is less of a concern, how does it compare to a forged part? Forged parts would seem to be faster and less costly.

  • @unitrader403
    @unitrader403 Рік тому +1

    havent watched many episodes, but since this is not the first one which says its a helicopter part i think they are secretly building one from 3d-printed parts...

  • @WernerBeroux
    @WernerBeroux Рік тому +2

    I'm quite surprised that it's cheaper. It requires special tooling and knowledge that is pretty cutting edge. It requires many steps, more than the CNC part.

    • @nobreighner
      @nobreighner Рік тому

      My thoughts also.

    • @ianrobertson3419
      @ianrobertson3419 Рік тому

      ya, no way is that cheaper. They probably were just saying that if scaled it COULD become cheaper.

  • @mujtabaqamar1712
    @mujtabaqamar1712 Рік тому

    Why comparing with steel there are other cheaper metals like auminum and alloys which can be used to save cost and weigth instead of composite. Composite do not justify here to use it instead of steel.

  • @siem8160
    @siem8160 Рік тому +1

    Cool solution but This static test is not enough. A real torture test : twist; pressure ; friction; heat...

  • @kimseymour8896
    @kimseymour8896 Рік тому

    It looks good, but can it really take the where in tear? that’s my question and my skepticism.

  • @SuperAWaC
    @SuperAWaC 2 роки тому +24

    There's no way the printed part was cheaper than the machined part. Has it been certified by the FAA/EASA/IASA? Does it get brittle in low temperatures and break with the vibration a helicopter would experience?

    • @circleofowls
      @circleofowls 2 роки тому +3

      I work in a reliability lab and I'd love to test this, any chance you have good data on the vibration and cold temperatures that would be typical for helicopter reliability testing? We use Essentium's HTN-CF25 filament all the time to replace the machined fixtures we use in our mechanical reliability testing, our process is much cheaper and faster than what our machine shop can do, but I've never tested our 3D printed fixtures under low temperatures, it'd be an interesting comparison.

    • @MrBen527
      @MrBen527 2 роки тому +6

      I would think a high heat situation would be more of a concern for the printed part.

    • @makingitwithnick
      @makingitwithnick 2 роки тому +7

      Cost of this is absolutely cheaper at volume compared to traditional composite parts. Compared to a machined part, it likely still is once you get to volume. Plenty of people are getting FAA certs on composite 3d printed parts.

    • @dorianvincent2101
      @dorianvincent2101 2 роки тому +3

      @@circleofowls that’s a material I was thinking about to use! Interesting

    • @yannickwillemin7825
      @yannickwillemin7825 2 роки тому +5

      @@MrBen527 PEEK and PEKK have proved that they make the cut

  • @MrXxValhallaxX
    @MrXxValhallaxX Рік тому

    maybe they should consider the rescyclingprocess of this plasticthingy too and then u stay with the good old metal part.

  • @SirDragonClaw
    @SirDragonClaw Рік тому

    Kind of pointless to not show the actual difference in strength between the two. Also cast aluminum would be stronger and cheaper with a similar weight.

  • @vladislavkuba5837
    @vladislavkuba5837 Рік тому

    all good but the metal part is not weight optimized, which could be much lighter.....

  • @kellymoses8566
    @kellymoses8566 Рік тому

    Continues carbon fiber would seem to be much stronger than chopped fiber.

  • @trentvlak
    @trentvlak Рік тому

    That's cool. Can you make me a bicycle frame that sells for $2000 retail?

  • @SilverStackers
    @SilverStackers Рік тому

    not a great process. i dont see this becoming mainstream. 3d metal printing would be a better option

  • @TheRealFOSFOR
    @TheRealFOSFOR Рік тому +2

    I like it. But I wonder why anyone would machine a bracket like that? It could easily be made out of two plates welded together, or even stamping it out from a few pieces and spot welded...

    • @yannickwillemin7825
      @yannickwillemin7825 Рік тому +1

      Great points. We definitely agree that there are many ways to realize such a part. Given the functional requirements (including weight reduction expectations), this customer was looking for a reinforced plastic part. This is where our AFT process was challenged vs. other processes and impressed this aerospace OEM. Stay tuned as we will soon communicate some great partnerships.

    • @joels7605
      @joels7605 Рік тому

      Absolutely. The composite part is amazing and has a ton of applications, but there is a 0% chance the 3D printed part is cheaper in the real world. The only reason they can make that argument with a straight face is because they milled the metal bracket out of a solid piece. No one would make the part that way.

    • @paulvanos7695
      @paulvanos7695 Рік тому

      Recall that the reason such parts are milled from a homogenious block is the stresd path at the root connection between the base and web member. Welding is precluded due to material imbrittlement due to heat zone, and cracking of relatively brittle weld material.
      Be interedting to know how the stress path is managed across what appears to be a post build heat / pressure bond. No continuous fibres across the jount.

  • @vladimirleon2487
    @vladimirleon2487 2 роки тому +2

    AWESOME!!!

  • @yasinnabi
    @yasinnabi 2 роки тому +1

    I found your channel wonderful and very informative . thanks for sharing. a fellow creator---

  • @of.course
    @of.course 2 роки тому +2

    Really glad I found this channel. Thanks for putting this content together!

  • @MaestroAbar
    @MaestroAbar Рік тому +1

    Sounds like a better comparison would be to compare this to a traditional CFRP, where it reduces or completely automates the layup process

  • @zenginellc
    @zenginellc Рік тому +1

    They really won me over with this video.
    I honestly thought this was dumb at first, but the way they explained it was phenominal!
    Well done.

  • @Sei783
    @Sei783 2 роки тому +3

    I wouldn't go chasing polymers just yet. One thing to consider is where these items get used and what environments they will be used in. Are they indoor, outdoor? Is this a marine application? The same goes for any building material.

  • @889976889
    @889976889 Рік тому

    3D printing gonna replace a lot of machining & other type of jobs

  • @yetti423
    @yetti423 Рік тому +1

    I'm highly impressed with that part. would like to use this process myself. i just wish there was a recycling element to this

  • @yyabay
    @yyabay Рік тому

    Cheaper than machined one oh yes
    Then you need a $20.000 mold

  • @scottydntno
    @scottydntno Рік тому

    all TALK, no proof of strength from either part.

  • @kft4764
    @kft4764 Рік тому +1

    The question shouldn't be think about where else in the world do you see metal brackets that can be replaced with these composite ones, but what else this construction method can extrapolate to. It being cheaper while being functionally equivalent is enough reason for manufacturers to use it, but I'm more excited on how this could enable greater efficiency and performance in weight sensitive applications.

    • @AdditiveManufacturing
      @AdditiveManufacturing  Рік тому

      Good point, good point. Lightweighting is a major benefit of additive manufacturing. We have a section about it on our site: www.additivemanufacturing.media/hashtag/lightweighting

  • @sirismile2010
    @sirismile2010 Рік тому

    recycle can be problematic i think, like all the plastics...

  • @midiFTW
    @midiFTW Рік тому +1

    Nice video, and absolutely inspiring to see 3D printing moving to the next level👍 I would love a bit more information on the temperature conditions this parts will see, and how the composite part holds up on this parameter. Can you share this?

  • @sparkextrugen7997
    @sparkextrugen7997 Рік тому

    Why to go for 3d printing when you can injection mould

  • @mofosoto
    @mofosoto Рік тому

    Yes, cheaper to make, but more expensive to buy. hehe he

  • @atnfn
    @atnfn Рік тому

    Doubt that is anywhere near as strong as the metal part.

  • @Lulu58e2
    @Lulu58e2 2 роки тому +1

    Another excellent episode. I love the format. (Also commenting for algo)

  • @hurlah
    @hurlah Рік тому

    Calling that a 3D print is a little bit of a stretch

  • @Crypt007
    @Crypt007 Рік тому

    Let's just lie about everything

  • @garrymcdouel
    @garrymcdouel Рік тому

    If u need mold, u don’t need 3d printer…

  • @steve5nash
    @steve5nash Рік тому

    what about mass production?

  • @twofacedmctwoface4876
    @twofacedmctwoface4876 Рік тому

    👎 very poor sound quality

  • @qiuweida
    @qiuweida Рік тому

    嗯,只有在必须高性能的场合才会用这样的工艺吧,否则为啥不用钛合金和CNC呢?

  • @m.castellan
    @m.castellan Рік тому

    True but where is the breaking Test,

  • @LWRC
    @LWRC Рік тому

    Compression molding is just another word for forging plastics!!! Even with the additional processing, the weight savings for an aircraft still may be worthwhile.
    The question is what is the compressive, tensile, dynamic and shear strength of the 3D printed part? What is the endurance life of the plastic part compared to the machined part?

  • @yellowgreen5229
    @yellowgreen5229 Рік тому +2

    Can plastic be infinitely recycled like steel.
    No
    Stop oil

  • @wrench-weld-build6545
    @wrench-weld-build6545 Рік тому

    Only down side for an industrial application is the fact that it cannot be field welded or repaired as easily. But, I guess you could replace certain parts with a metal fabricated part or if it is more economical have spares on hand. I know that a lot of drag racers ran into this problem with titanium and the fact that it was very difficult to repair at the track do to the complex welding process. The beauty of steel is that most of the time a competent welder can repair the component in the field and have a part nearly as good as new or make quick design changes to improve its performance without having to rebuild the whole part. For example, lets take a 3d printed composite flange with a bolt pattern that dose not line up. Steel would be an easy fix. Braze it the hole shut, re drill and tap. I dont think thats doable with printed plastic.

  • @49walker44
    @49walker44 Рік тому

    How small of parts can you make, a curve of mild steel 0.7 long, 0.13 wide and 0.05 thick? Needs to be surface hardened. Please reply, trying to find someone to make batches of 100.

  • @MilesBellas
    @MilesBellas Рік тому

    Bicycle application?

  • @user-jk9zr3sc5h
    @user-jk9zr3sc5h Рік тому

    This type of machine could be used to transport power delivery in some applications- say from a LifePO4 battery box, you could lay the fibres in a way to have enough thickness to safely transfer energy "through" a material as carbon fibre is conductive.... all the while having sufficient separation, hm. Carbon fibres may be more expensive but this is a more integrated system, I suppose

  • @hurtfulcomment511
    @hurtfulcomment511 Рік тому

    Just a reminder, that the machined part is MUCH stronger and could in fact hold many times the strain compared to the plastic one. Also, if the requirement for loads would be what the plastic one can handle, the machined part could be much smaller and thinner. This comparison is kind of apples to oranges, and does not make really sense. They should have been engineered for the same load, so we could see what is the size and cost difference. Probably the bolt's would be the most critical part to determine the max load. Cheers!

  • @getinsidelife
    @getinsidelife Рік тому

    so molding or 3d printing

  • @konrad1853
    @konrad1853 Рік тому

    I would like to see more detail behind the economics of this process. Explain the business case to replace the machined steel with printed/molded composite.

  • @hafizuddinmohdlowhim8426
    @hafizuddinmohdlowhim8426 11 місяців тому

    How about the cost?

  • @jedics1
    @jedics1 Рік тому

    Imagine the instant range increase you would get from an Ev made from this, weighing less than half your average one! You could turn a 2000kg car with a 100kw battery that gets say 500km range into a 900kg car with a 60kw battery that get 700km of range for less money....Rough figures obviously but probably not far from possible considering the Aptera.

  • @stevenikitas8170
    @stevenikitas8170 Рік тому

    If this 3D part were flat, it would be merely interesting. That the part has a 90 degree angle that can handle such a load is truly a testament to awesome modern technology.

  • @ArthurField
    @ArthurField 2 роки тому +1

    Have you considered creating an SOP around the setup for your guests to record? Outlining all the successful components of a good recording?

    • @AdditiveManufacturing
      @AdditiveManufacturing  2 роки тому +1

      With our current setup, we conduct most of our interviews via remote recording. This offers us the most flexibility and allows us to easily feature guests from around the world, like in this video. We do talk our guests through best practices when it comes to setting up their webcam and location, but limitations exist based on what is available to them. We’re all about improving our content though, so we will be continuing to look out for ways to enhance all aspects of our videos.

    • @ArthurField
      @ArthurField 2 роки тому

      @@AdditiveManufacturing Thanks for the reply, it's something I'm looking at myself. I have some recordings done yet unposted, and looking at procedures to walk guests through for remote work like this, to ensure the quality doesn't detract from the experiece.