I want an Infinite redemption so much, he could be like a mix beetween Darth Vader and Scarecrow, someone serious and scary who loves to break the mind of his enemies before destroying them, which is a perfect match with a ruby that can "change" reality.
To be fair, the events of Sonic Generations happened before Sonic Forces. So including an Infinite boss fight in Shadow Generations would probably have broken canon.
This could have led a fun inverse of “you took everything from me” and “I don’t even know who you are.” “I have to thank you Shadow, if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have become as powerful as I am now.” “I don’t even know who you are.” “Then allow me to introduce myself; as your DEMISE.” Somethin like that idk
Infinite would've been perfect because of his hatred of Shadow, and how Shadow made such an impact on his character. The tricky part would be doing this boss fight in a way that doesn't impact how Shadow originally meets Infinite in Forces.
@@VillageOtterthey're very reserved with the comics' direction nowadays, it's not up to the writers what gets approved (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ian Flynn is no longer lead writer for the IDW comics, so he's not in charge of the story itself). As far as I'm aware, IDW has taken on a much safer, slower pace, and I personally believe the decision to come up with new characters that are exclusive to IDW was to have more freedom with them in terms of what they're allowed to do, what stories they can tell. Shadow's writing has been rather flat and feels restricted because it is, SEGA at the time would ask for changes that adhere to guidelines that were set back then and today to a certain extent. I even assume Surge's inclusion to the narrative was made to fill that gap for a character like Shadow, since Ian and his team decided to cast him aside to avoid the lack of creative liberties they'd have to deal with (resulting in more frustrating characterization for Shadow that no one is happy with). I'm hoping SEGA quits the safe approach and let's the comics reach their full potential one day, Infinite COULD be there and it'd be great for him
Thank you very much for your work and it will be great to see something from you about Blaze the Cat. She is a wonderful character and will be 20 next year.
You know what would be a good idea, if Ian Flynn did a rewrite for Sonic forces. the rewritten story of Sonic generations was bad because there was so little story and cutscenes to work with, so instead he made extra references, Sonic forces on the other hand has a lot of Story for a Sonic game, the real problem with Sonic Forces's story is that it's just not good. Ian Flynn might be able to fix that, he already did that a little bit with Tails part in Sonic forces's story because of Tails's arc in Sonic frontiers and the comic that makes Infinite a better character were also written by Ian Flynn
I’d definitely say the main reason Infinite isn’t in the game is time All of the other antagonist are much older, and while Forces is older than I’d like to admit it’s still not as old as the other games. HOWEVER if they’re going to include a movie themed level as dlc, I see no reason infinite couldn’t have his own dlc level, he’s got personal beef with both hedgehogs and the reality mess that is White Space would meld really nicely with Infinite’s Null Space Probably, it’s entirely possible it wouldn’t but I feel like it would Regardless Infinite dlc please sega
"Infinite is a mewing kitten in a world where darkness and terror knock daily on your door... he's just a cute ball of fluff... I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS" - Shadow the Hedgehog, 2017
that's not a problem, part of the plot of generations is that time is getting messed up that the present, future and past are all getting jumbled up into one area known as white space.
@@AnimationDude_I mean to be fair the custom hero who doesn’t have any special abilities beats infinite so it could be possible for shadow to beat infinite also also there’s a thing called *plot armour*
As someone that has a soft spot for forces and infinite despite there flaws, I really appreciate this video for bringing some light to infinite. I hope he gets a chance another day. Thanks for the video. I really enjoyed listening to it :)
I think one of the big reasons why Infinite didn't make an appearance is because the interactions between him and Shadow would've been too similar to the interactions Shadow has with Mephiles due to both of them being forgotten by Shadow twice (Infinite is a technicality since Shadow Generations is BEFORE Forces, but I digress). Sure, Infinite's powers are different from Mephiles, but the interactions would nearly be the same, just with different end goals; Mephiles wanting freedom from being erased, and Infinite wanting to prove his power to Shadow.
IMO - SXSG was an opportunity, but it may not have been the strongest opportunity. Infinite (and the Deadly Six) may benefit most by being evolving/surprise antagonists. We're at a stage in the franchise were they could start pushing multiple enemy factions.
I would absolutely LOVE Infinite to make a comeback, or possibly even a redemption arc! I see so much potential in the character... All of his Squad, people who he has been with for so long, was just taken from him in an instant by Shadow. Without a second thought, and without any remorse... And he wasn't given a chance to avenge them as Shadow wiped the floor with Infinite, he then casted him aside and called him pathetic... Thats sure to do a number on someone's own mental state... but the game did a horrible job of explaining it, or barely even did! Infinite could return! but I think it was for the better that he wasn't in Shadow Generations... as while all the people he has faced was from the past, Infinite was from the future... I don't know why, but something tells me that certain events in the events of Sonic Forces would be different if this decision was made, since Shadow would now know that Infinite exists... I wanna see Infinite return! I really do! but I think it was a good choice that he wasn't included in Shadow Generations...
A thing online Infinite "fixers" miss (me included) is that its not really "tragic" backstory that Infinite needs (but still kinda does). Because in the end, "I'm not what happened to me. I am what I choose to become". (Kinda parallels infamous Linkin Park song). You can't get a headcanon out of my mind that Infinite is Linkin Park incarnate. But, yes, the central focus is parallel with Shadow, which Sonic Forces unfortunately never used
I’m all for giving Infinite another chance, but I think the big thing is that he doesn’t really have a significant relationship to Shadow. Sure, Shadow may be the thing that pushed him off the edge, but Infinite means nothing to Shadow himself, whereas all the other bosses had some sort of parallel to Shadow to be built off. If Infinite is going to come back, he would probably work best by expanding the character and doing something entirely different from Shadow.
Werent the bosses supposed to be ones that were dead or didnt exist anymore, i dont think it would have made sense as at the end of forces, infinite ran off somewhere, even though it would have been nice to see his character treated better
See now I do agree with u but knowing how this takes place before forces shadow seeing infinite in forces Shouldve at least rung a bell since they’d basically have had encounter twice before
@@idosarts_and_krafts Well, like everything in this franchise, infinite is divisive, some see him for the potential he has, some see him for the joke he was. Not much different from Elise, Silver, Black Doom, Shade and The Deadly Six.
@willbrgamer5137 true And even if now there are better utilisation of some of them Others that needed it ( mainly silver and infinite) seemingly get nothing And don't even get me STARTED on Elise
I don’t think infinite being in a bad game is a excuse for not including him since Mephiles and Black doom who was in 06 and Shadow the hedgehog was included he’ll sega went far to make black doom the main villain again
I am pretty sure Sonic Generations happened BEFORE Forces, so adding him would mess with the lore-at least, that's my opinion. I still like him as an antagonist.
I'm just gonna start copy and pasting this lol. You realize the entire game takes place outside of time right? Shadow even goes to sunset heights during the events of forces.
@@SonicTheory96 Yes, but we never see Sonic or Shadow fight anyone exclusive to Future games. It remains faithful to the original that way. Because I don't think Time Eater can affect the future. Only the past, which indirectly affects the future.
@@SonicTheory96I have to stop you there. First off: it doesn't matter if the game takes place outside of time, their memories won't be wiped like the ending of sonic 06. Second off: if you listen to Gerald in his conversations, he stated that Shadow encountered time anomalies from the future (sunset heights and chaos island) but thinks nothing of it (in Shadow's case nothing significant to mull over). Thirdly: I repeat like that guy before said, this takes canonically before Forces, so Shadow CANNOT meet Infinite because it breaks the canon. And if you played episode Shadow, you can picture why otherwise Shadow would have finished him right then and there and thus Forces never happened.
He wasn't left behind or forgotten, Infinite as of this game isn't part of Shadow's past. Including him before they properly meet would've created a massive continuity error as Shadow can't know who Infinite is in any way. (Sure Forces is already full of them but the constantly debunked Classic Sonic multiverse theory is already a headache to deal with) Is there potential in Infinite and can he be salvaged? Yes, but this isn't the way to do it.
Wasn't it because Infinite isn't really dead? It could be because he's in Null-space which means time could not work or even existing I'm just thinking out loud
a lot of people hate how his motivations boil down to being called weak, I kinda like it he lost his friends on the same day, but trash talk is all he took away from it. bro is so evil that he outright rejects the chance to be a sympathetic villain and instead chooses to be a petty child
Shadow Generations takes place during Sonic Generations, so Infinite could not be added because that is in Shadow's future, so that is impossible unfortunately if i am wrong please fact check me
Sure i'll fact check you. The white space takes place outside of time itself. Shadow even travels to the future during the events of Sonic Forces. We see this when he's in Sunset Heights.
Y'all keep forgetting that this is a side game. "Where's the Shadow 05 level?" "Where's the Colors and Unleashed level?" "Where's Infinite?" "Where's Sonic and the other rival fights?" "Where's the 3DS levels?" "Where's the extra Black Doom interactions?" "Where's the Dark Beginnings episodes?" With what budget?
"where's the colors and unleashed levels?" well in the sonic portion of sonic generation. shadow generation is specifically shadow focused which is why we see Mephlis, Maria, Gerald, black doom (which did get more interactions due to him being main antagonist) and the Bio-lizard. "where is the sonic/rival fight?" in the sonic portion of the game. compare that to the two misses shadow generation's representation contains: 1. no level from StH (shadow 2005) 2. no infinite, even here there's a stretch because every boss is directly linked to shadow rather then just a rival be it familial (black doom, Bio-lizard) or genetical (like Mephlis taking Shadow's shadow or bio-data in Metal overlord's case) infinite doesn't have that deep of a connection.
This wouldn't work. Forces Sonic is clearly stronger than Generations Sonic and Shadow even in the beginning yet was stomped by Infinite. Infinite would just blitz Shadow and there would never be a fight.
The only reason I’m against Infinite being in Shadow gens is because Shadow would then know who infinite is, so forces could pretty much not play out at all. (Not that I think forces’ story being removed would cause too many negative ripple effects in the series, but Infinite being in Shadow gens would have just break things honestly. Also infinite would have to be weaker, considering he is able to beat gens Sonic in forces)
As much as people dislike him, I'd absolutely love to see Infinite given a new life and second chance through IDW and the games
Yeah, I really think that if we got some good writing for him people wouldn't mind his return.
I would love to see in the future sonic movies
I want an Infinite redemption so much, he could be like a mix beetween Darth Vader and Scarecrow, someone serious and scary who loves to break the mind of his enemies before destroying them, which is a perfect match with a ruby that can "change" reality.
Yeah, there is a lot of potential for his character.
Same I want him to get the justice he deserves
they left our goat infinite
"To me, you are everything. But I am not even a thought in your head?"
To be fair, the events of Sonic Generations happened before Sonic Forces. So including an Infinite boss fight in Shadow Generations would probably have broken canon.
You realize the entire game takes place outside of time right? Shadow even goes to sunset heights during the events of forces.
@@SonicTheory96 hell ge even goes to chaos island from frontiers
@@SonicTheory96Base Forces Sonic is stronger than Generations Sonic and Shadow. Infinite blitzed him. The fight wouldn't even be possible.
This could have led a fun inverse of “you took everything from me” and “I don’t even know who you are.”
“I have to thank you Shadow, if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t have become as powerful as I am now.”
“I don’t even know who you are.”
“Then allow me to introduce myself; as your DEMISE.”
Somethin like that idk
If I may add my two cents, while time is in flux, Shadow is not. He would not be to encounter Infinite without implementing a mindwipe.
"Oh, how ironic fate can be!"
~Mephiles
Infinite would've been perfect because of his hatred of Shadow, and how Shadow made such an impact on his character.
The tricky part would be doing this boss fight in a way that doesn't impact how Shadow originally meets Infinite in Forces.
Really wish IDW could bring him back. Wish Sega could allow it.
Did they tell Ian Flynn not to bring him back?
@@VillageOtterthey're very reserved with the comics' direction nowadays, it's not up to the writers what gets approved (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Ian Flynn is no longer lead writer for the IDW comics, so he's not in charge of the story itself). As far as I'm aware, IDW has taken on a much safer, slower pace, and I personally believe the decision to come up with new characters that are exclusive to IDW was to have more freedom with them in terms of what they're allowed to do, what stories they can tell. Shadow's writing has been rather flat and feels restricted because it is, SEGA at the time would ask for changes that adhere to guidelines that were set back then and today to a certain extent. I even assume Surge's inclusion to the narrative was made to fill that gap for a character like Shadow, since Ian and his team decided to cast him aside to avoid the lack of creative liberties they'd have to deal with (resulting in more frustrating characterization for Shadow that no one is happy with).
I'm hoping SEGA quits the safe approach and let's the comics reach their full potential one day, Infinite COULD be there and it'd be great for him
Thank you very much for your work and it will be great to see something from you about Blaze the Cat. She is a wonderful character and will be 20 next year.
I will definitely do a Blaze video sometime in the future!
@SonicTheory96 I'm glad to hear that, thank you for your reply and good luck!
You know what would be a good idea, if Ian Flynn did a rewrite for Sonic forces.
the rewritten story of Sonic generations was bad because there was so little story and cutscenes to work with, so instead he made extra references, Sonic forces on the other hand has a lot of Story for a Sonic game, the real problem with Sonic Forces's story is that it's just not good.
Ian Flynn might be able to fix that, he already did that a little bit with Tails part in Sonic forces's story because of Tails's arc in Sonic frontiers and the comic that makes Infinite a better character were also written by Ian Flynn
Power in Thought is "Infinite" - Someone
I’d definitely say the main reason Infinite isn’t in the game is time
All of the other antagonist are much older, and while Forces is older than I’d like to admit it’s still not as old as the other games.
HOWEVER if they’re going to include a movie themed level as dlc, I see no reason infinite couldn’t have his own dlc level, he’s got personal beef with both hedgehogs and the reality mess that is White Space would meld really nicely with Infinite’s Null Space
Probably, it’s entirely possible it wouldn’t but I feel like it would
Regardless
Infinite dlc please sega
"Infinite is a mewing kitten in a world where darkness and terror knock daily on your door... he's just a cute ball of fluff... I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS"
- Shadow the Hedgehog, 2017
The truth is Infinite was in Sonic Forces after Sonic Generations
This shouldn't be a problem as the Starfall Islands appear in Sonic X Shadow Generations and that comes from Sonic Frontiers.
that's not a problem, part of the plot of generations is that time is getting messed up that the present, future and past are all getting jumbled up into one area known as white space.
@@Adir-Yosef even more than that when you consider that Sonic 06 doesn't even exist anymore.
And he blitzed Forces Sonic who is clearly stronger than Generations Shadow. Shadow would get oneshot and the fight wouldn't even exist
@@AnimationDude_I mean to be fair the custom hero who doesn’t have any special abilities beats infinite so it could be possible for shadow to beat infinite also also there’s a thing called *plot armour*
As someone that has a soft spot for forces and infinite despite there flaws, I really appreciate this video for bringing some light to infinite. I hope he gets a chance another day. Thanks for the video. I really enjoyed listening to it :)
INFINITE BOSS FIGHT!!!
Personally I don’t really care about infinite and honestly his non inclusion to this game didn’t bother me In my opinion.
I think one of the big reasons why Infinite didn't make an appearance is because the interactions between him and Shadow would've been too similar to the interactions Shadow has with Mephiles due to both of them being forgotten by Shadow twice (Infinite is a technicality since Shadow Generations is BEFORE Forces, but I digress). Sure, Infinite's powers are different from Mephiles, but the interactions would nearly be the same, just with different end goals; Mephiles wanting freedom from being erased, and Infinite wanting to prove his power to Shadow.
You’re right, Sonic Theory! We must send a Gmail to Bumblekast at once!
Please do sir.
Also, nice Profile Picture
@@VillageOtter, thanks! And I meant “WE”.
@@DevaronJ I must not tell lies
@@VillageOtter, I’m not talking about lies.
@@DevaronJ No, what I'm saying is that your Profile Picture Awesome. Sorry for the missunderstanding
Sega has Infinite locked for completely unknown reasons.
(Hes unironically my favorite. Im mentally ill.))
For it is not in success where true character in revealed, but in failure
IMO - SXSG was an opportunity, but it may not have been the strongest opportunity.
Infinite (and the Deadly Six) may benefit most by being evolving/surprise antagonists.
We're at a stage in the franchise were they could start pushing multiple enemy factions.
The deadly six would be efit by never being mentioned ever again. Not a soul wants to see the dollar store koopa kids ever again
I would absolutely LOVE Infinite to make a comeback, or possibly even a redemption arc!
I see so much potential in the character... All of his Squad, people who he has been with for so long, was just taken from him in an instant by Shadow.
Without a second thought, and without any remorse...
And he wasn't given a chance to avenge them as Shadow wiped the floor with Infinite, he then casted him aside and called him pathetic...
Thats sure to do a number on someone's own mental state... but the game did a horrible job of explaining it, or barely even did!
Infinite could return! but I think it was for the better that he wasn't in Shadow Generations... as while all the people he has faced was from the past, Infinite was from the future...
I don't know why, but something tells me that certain events in the events of Sonic Forces would be different if this decision was made, since Shadow would now know that Infinite exists...
I wanna see Infinite return! I really do! but I think it was a good choice that he wasn't included in Shadow Generations...
A thing online Infinite "fixers" miss (me included) is that its not really "tragic" backstory that Infinite needs (but still kinda does). Because in the end, "I'm not what happened to me. I am what I choose to become". (Kinda parallels infamous Linkin Park song). You can't get a headcanon out of my mind that Infinite is Linkin Park incarnate. But, yes, the central focus is parallel with Shadow, which Sonic Forces unfortunately never used
Did not made someone a Mix of the Infinite and Linkin Park Music?
@Zero_de_Nova exactly
I’m all for giving Infinite another chance, but I think the big thing is that he doesn’t really have a significant relationship to Shadow. Sure, Shadow may be the thing that pushed him off the edge, but Infinite means nothing to Shadow himself, whereas all the other bosses had some sort of parallel to Shadow to be built off.
If Infinite is going to come back, he would probably work best by expanding the character and doing something entirely different from Shadow.
Werent the bosses supposed to be ones that were dead or didnt exist anymore, i dont think it would have made sense as at the end of forces, infinite ran off somewhere, even though it would have been nice to see his character treated better
Easy answer-
Bro hasn’t met infinite yet 😂
See now I do agree with u but knowing how this takes place before forces shadow seeing infinite in forces Shouldve at least rung a bell since they’d basically have had encounter twice before
"Left behind" cannot begin to describe infinite
I mean he *DIED TO A TWOMP FOR GOD'S SAKE!*
Bro, come on now, this was not canon.
@willbrgamer5137 still
It just goes to show how little sonic fans view *A GUY THAT CAN TEAR REALITY APART!*
@@idosarts_and_krafts
Well, like everything in this franchise, infinite is divisive, some see him for the potential he has, some see him for the joke he was. Not much different from Elise, Silver, Black Doom, Shade and The Deadly Six.
@willbrgamer5137 true
And even if now there are better utilisation of some of them
Others that needed it ( mainly silver and infinite) seemingly get nothing
And don't even get me STARTED on Elise
Infinite needs to be the villain in one of tthe sonic movies
I don’t think infinite being in a bad game is a excuse for not including him since Mephiles and Black doom who was in 06 and Shadow the hedgehog was included he’ll sega went far to make black doom the main villain again
Infinite is so underappreciated. If Forces was a better game, Infinite would've been the best character ever, that's it.
I am pretty sure Sonic Generations happened BEFORE Forces, so adding him would mess with the lore-at least, that's my opinion. I still like him as an antagonist.
I'm just gonna start copy and pasting this lol. You realize the entire game takes place outside of time right? Shadow even goes to sunset heights during the events of forces.
@@SonicTheory96 Yes, but we never see Sonic or Shadow fight anyone exclusive to Future games. It remains faithful to the original that way. Because I don't think Time Eater can affect the future. Only the past, which indirectly affects the future.
well what do I know about that, I've never played Generations lol.
@@SonicTheory96I have to stop you there.
First off: it doesn't matter if the game takes place outside of time, their memories won't be wiped like the ending of sonic 06.
Second off: if you listen to Gerald in his conversations, he stated that Shadow encountered time anomalies from the future (sunset heights and chaos island) but thinks nothing of it (in Shadow's case nothing significant to mull over).
Thirdly: I repeat like that guy before said, this takes canonically before Forces, so Shadow CANNOT meet Infinite because it breaks the canon. And if you played episode Shadow, you can picture why otherwise Shadow would have finished him right then and there and thus Forces never happened.
He wasn't left behind or forgotten, Infinite as of this game isn't part of Shadow's past. Including him before they properly meet would've created a massive continuity error as Shadow can't know who Infinite is in any way. (Sure Forces is already full of them but the constantly debunked Classic Sonic multiverse theory is already a headache to deal with)
Is there potential in Infinite and can he be salvaged? Yes, but this isn't the way to do it.
Wasn't it because Infinite isn't really dead? It could be because he's in Null-space which means time could not work or even existing I'm just thinking out loud
a lot of people hate how his motivations boil down to being called weak, I kinda like it
he lost his friends on the same day, but trash talk is all he took away from it. bro is so evil that he outright rejects the chance to be a sympathetic villain and instead chooses to be a petty child
If this makes anybody happy I made a fanemade series about infinite and the history of the phantom ruby I'll post a video about it soon
So if infinity appeared in shadow generations it wouldn't make any sense then shadow wouldn't recognize it in forces
Good video!
Thank you!
@@SonicTheory96 You're Welcome!
Pretty certain I heard somewhere that he’s actually dead
I miss him 🫡
Shadow Generations takes place during Sonic Generations, so Infinite could not be added because that is in Shadow's future, so that is impossible unfortunately if i am wrong please fact check me
Sure i'll fact check you. The white space takes place outside of time itself. Shadow even travels to the future during the events of Sonic Forces. We see this when he's in Sunset Heights.
Shadow generations time wise happens before sonic forces so infinite shouldn't be in the game It would make no sense.
Explain the sunset heights level to me please 😂
Y'all keep forgetting that this is a side game.
"Where's the Shadow 05 level?" "Where's the Colors and Unleashed level?" "Where's Infinite?" "Where's Sonic and the other rival fights?" "Where's the 3DS levels?" "Where's the extra Black Doom interactions?" "Where's the Dark Beginnings episodes?"
With what budget?
"where's the colors and unleashed levels?" well in the sonic portion of sonic generation.
shadow generation is specifically shadow focused which is why we see Mephlis, Maria, Gerald, black doom (which did get more interactions due to him being main antagonist) and the Bio-lizard.
"where is the sonic/rival fight?" in the sonic portion of the game.
compare that to the two misses shadow generation's representation contains:
1. no level from StH (shadow 2005)
2. no infinite, even here there's a stretch because every boss is directly linked to shadow rather then just a rival be it familial (black doom, Bio-lizard) or genetical (like Mephlis taking Shadow's shadow or bio-data in Metal overlord's case) infinite doesn't have that deep of a connection.
@Adir-Yosef people were expecting Shadow Generations to have the exact same content as Sonic Generations. Meaning 9 levels, bosses, and rival fights.
There Has To Be Content Updates Like Frontiers, They Have To.
And If There's A Final Horizon Form, They Have To Add Rival Fights Like Sonic Has, And Change The Game As A Whole (That Last Part May Be A Stretch)
infinite was on his way to shadow generations, but thwomp had other plans
Well on the bright side of Shadow's story in Gens, at least Zavok, Lyric and Sage weren't involved, they're trash, unlike Infinite.
This wouldn't work. Forces Sonic is clearly stronger than Generations Sonic and Shadow even in the beginning yet was stomped by Infinite. Infinite would just blitz Shadow and there would never be a fight.
While I agree to an extent, I think the doom powers would come into play.
Who?
The only reason I’m against Infinite being in Shadow gens is because Shadow would then know who infinite is, so forces could pretty much not play out at all. (Not that I think forces’ story being removed would cause too many negative ripple effects in the series, but Infinite being in Shadow gens would have just break things honestly. Also infinite would have to be weaker, considering he is able to beat gens Sonic in forces)