What's even weirder is when they cast B-list actors who STILL can't sing. At that point they might as well just cast a bunch of "unknowns" who can sing their faces off, at least it would create a satisfying end product.
@@kittykittybangbang9367yeah honestly there are so many voice actors who could have been way better than a lot of screen actors who were cast in animated movies.
I don’t mind when they cast A-list celebrities as long as they are right for the role. However, more often than not that that isn’t the case. One exception I can think of in recent years was Andrew Garfield in Tick Tick Boom. He was amazing in that.
@@klaraf.b.9820 And you probably didn't expect realism from Elvis's freneticism or Oppenheimer's quick time jumps, either! All movies are heavily stylized.
Epic comment. He is so overrated. If you listened to him clearly, he is not as wise as young people think he is. Rather, he is just a sad confused boy who sometimes reads
"If Hollywood hates musicals so much, why do they keep making them?" I think it's because everyone on the creative side of the house *desperately* loves musicals. Think of how many TV shows will have a musical episode for no reason. Actors love musicals. Writers love musicals. Audiences love musicals. Executives and producers hate musicals because all of the moving parts makes them risky investments and they hate risk.
I mean yes, but there's more to that. It's also that this same execs and producers have NO idea how storytelling through music works. Heck, even most people who are on the "creative team" of a musical film (I use creative loosely here) have no idea how it's supposed to work. Most directors of musical films have no idea how it supposed to work so in turn, they have no idea how to handle directing songs and music when it's on film...So they just ignore the fact that's it's a song and let it sit there because they know it has to be there, rather than work though how it's supposed to function in the story. It's a mesh of two mediums that very few people know how to handle. I get it. Stage and screen are different mediums that require different storytelling techniques, and they absolutely CAN mesh, but it requires people behind the scenes who know how to do that.
Hollywood doesn’t hate musicals in fact they love them, however test audiences HATE them and as such they hide the fact they’re musicals until people go in. Musicals can be some of the best selling movies when they hit like Mamma Mia, Phantom, Les Mis, Greatest Showman, etc. say what you will about the quality of some of those but they end up being massively popular if they work. As such if you can get people tricked into it and they like it it’ll be super successful, however trying to get large audiences into a musical is a lot harder
@@broderickfoster2107 Test audiences disliked the song "Part of your world" from the original Little Mermaid so much it was almost cut from the movie. Test audiences are not good indicators of a movie's success bc they don't represent how people actually interact with their entertainment. Genre conventions and tropes are important factors people consider before they choose whether or not a story is for them. No one wants to pay for a serious drama and be surprised by a musical anymore than you would be happy to pay for a comedy and instead get a horror-thriller. Musicals require a higher level of suspended disbelief than non-musicals so audiences deserve enough notice to properly appreciate and absorb the material.
@@kelly9236 I don’t disagree I’m just saying it’s a large reason of why things aren’t marketed as musicals. Test audiences despise them and as such they don’t advertise that they are musicals. However Hollywood itself loves making them due to their memorability and sales so it’s this weird paradox
It's never been about realism. A Star is Born is realistic. Cabaret is realistic. Moulin Rouge and Chicago are fantastical. All of these work to greater or lesser extent. It's not strictly about the property, either. Dear Evan Hansen remains an extremely successful show with a phenomenal pop score by hitmakers Pasek and Paul. It was a horrible movie adaptation because (among other things) the casting was a disaster. Likewise, the film version of Jesus Christ Superstar was a dull, psychedelic mess. Anything can be adapted poorly... movies, like musicals, have lots of moving parts, failures in any of which can bring the whole thing crashing down. Few executives have the chops to consistently diagnose and fix or avoid problems in films writ large, let alone by genre, and even sensitive, consistently successful artists like Steven Spielberg may struggle to understand how to pull off a musical (as impactful were his "Cool" number and Anita rape sequences, his structural placement and staging of the Krupke number failed to lend West Side Story's Jets any credibility or sympathy). Bottom line, musicals are among the hardest forms to pull off, and aside from intimate, diagetic-driven works like Once, as expensive to produce as your average blockbuster. Not only are songs and dance added to the burden of storytelling, dialogue, action, and performance, but these must be credibly integrated with transitions for pacing and mood. Technically, syncing sound adds another layer of challenge. Most movies (especially action movies) rely heavily on music and movement already; a nicely handpicked needle-drop soundtrack lend further panache to a Pulp Fiction, Baby Driver, or Guardians of the Galaxy film. For these reasons, a well-crafted musical ought to be an easy sell, as the continued popularity of TikTok shorts and music videos demonstrates the effectiveness and marketability of the genre. The challenge remains to string these numbers together into a holistic, emotionally-satisfying piece of storytelling. It's a degree of difficulty added to an already high bar to clear, but there's no denying the potential. The "filmed musicals are unrealistic" trope is as barren as the "animation is for kids" one. Regardless of genre, what audiences seem to want most consistently is entertainment in the form of characters and situations they can relate to or admire. Musicals can deliver that as well as and often better than, any other narrative form.
the "nobody sings out of nowhere" thing bugs me for multiple reasons, but one is specifically the phrasing of "out of nowhere". i believe there's a part of that same video of howard ashman where he explains that in musicals, a character starts to sing because their emotions are too strong for words to be enough, and they start to dance when the song isn't enough. it's never been "singing out of nowhere", it's "singing because you feel so much that the only way you can express it is through song."
That's a good explanation for why characters "sing out of nowhere", but I also feel like it shouldn't have to be explained. Some people have apparently lost the ability to set reality aside while watching a movie. Like these people are watching a literal musical but find it unrealistic when the characters randomly break into song. What exactly were they expecting to happen in a musical? The entire premise of that genre is characters singing out of nowhere, so I'm not sure why some people are disappointed when that happens.
ITS SO FUCKING STUPID LIKE. THEY'RE TYPICALLY NOT SINGING IN UNIVERSE. ITS A REPRESENTATION OF HOW THE CHARACTER FEELS i feel like this is the kind of person to go "wElL mAyBe tHe cUrTaIns ArE juSt blUe"
@@thecolorjune I mean, I do it while doing chores around the house. And under the shower. Sometimes singing complete nonsense about what's going on in my mind right now. Do... other people just not do that, I wonder? 🥲
@@whereisdonnie It literally is. Having a problem with musicals because people don't sing their thoughts in real life is a sign of low empathy, low creativity, low emotional intelligence, and all-around unlikability.
Yes! A LOT of things that people accept in movie is very unreal. All of the romcoms are very weird, hardly any of the action movies make sence and a laugh track is very freaky in real life
Thanks, the entertainment industry can be extremely cutthroat. I have a few friends who are theatre majors, and their dedication to their craft is truly inspiring.
Very sweet comment! I will forgive the 'major sin' (jk) of using the phrase theater people have a superstition against - which is why we say 'Break a Leg'! I knew I wasn't talented enough for Broadway, I am Community Theater material, and that's ok! I think many other self-described Theater Kids have never seriously pursued professional stage acting- let alone Broadway. Many of the most hardcore theater kids I have known didn't act at all, there is crew, costumes, makeup & hair, set design & construction and of course director and stage manager. TLDR: there is more to being a theater kid than acting, & some of us do it (or used to do it) bc we loved the experience and community.
It's only cutthroat for those that don't have connections or fit the typical "look." There's a reason why many tv/film actors have relatives in journalism, pop music or in tv/film production, if not having some ties to a feeder drama program/school.@@trinaq
I remember hearing Ian McKellen hated filming for the Hobbit movies because he was a classically trained Shakespearean actor used to acting on a stage with a real set now dumped in the middle of a green screen room acting on his own most of the time cause the Gandalf scenes usually were him by himself. He found it incredibly isolating compared to the original Lord of the Rings trilogy where he usually had a scene partner at least and there was a TON of practical effects.
Lord of the Rings also already used plenty of Greenscreen. McKellen did break down on the Hobbiton Kitchen Set because he was the only one there, no other actors on set to interact with, but the greenscreen and special effect were not thw reason. It's in the Bonus Features of "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" /info
@@pysq8that's bullshit, I don't always love musicals when there's too much musical numbers or when the singing style is too dramatic and it feels boring FOR ME. But I know there's many who love it, cause people have different preferences and that's fine.
Lala land is probably the best example of musicals still being "in style". People don't like bad musicals, but original musicals with good story, good acting and great original music, will always be hits.
As a theater kid sorounded by people that actually hate them, I feel like we live among a general sense of irony - everything nowadays seems to be fueled with cynicism and a good musical is a type of genre that assumes bold, big, unashamed emotions. You must be willing to feel these feelings if you want to thoroughly enjoy a musical.
And that's why bitter incels are the anti audience of these films in addition to housing powerful women to belt about emotions. Of course women and lgbt people are gonna be the backbone of the genre
I don't get living ironically or cynically. I'm a revolutionary, I hate our current society and view most things with suspicion. That doesn't make me any less genuine. Sincerity is revolutionary when no one has any principles left. Just because the world now sucks doesn't mean a better world isn't possible. Musicals are for people with still active imaginations, a will for the silly, and hope for the future.
I hate cynicism and sarcasm and also hate (movie) musicals so idk about that. Maybe it's bescause musical feelings are so big and bold that they are wildly unnatural. Less is honestly more when it comes to making me feel things. That being said, one expection was a local production of Sweeny Todd. That was really nice but I have not watched another one before or after.
I agree! I actually loved the 2021 West Side Story and watched it twice in cinema. The second time some teenagers behind me talked and ran around the entire time and I just felt sorry for them for not being able to take in the emotions and feel them in their big and pure way, which is yes, a little silly, but it's human!
I think realism has gone a little TOO far in movies these days. To the point where people try and mumble in a realistic way and the acting suffers because of it
Yes and “How will we know they’re having sex if we don’t see them get penetrated for 7 1/2 awkward minutes?” Like please, spare me. Funny how we need to see women fully naked but seldom if ever see men’s bits…almost like films are made for entertainment still despite claims of realism annnnd forever cater to the same white male audience. But we need inaudible mumbling. For authenticity 🤌
You mean the sound mixing style that people like Christopher Nolan use in their movies? It’s the ethic of not overdubbing. It’s not the actors trying to sound realistic. …people should bring this back, especially in music.
I agree but more because I think we have neglected in this camp and absurdism and movies that become cult classics. In general neglecting the weird for the safe has made cinema suffer significantly.
i wish they’d just let musicals be musicals and make people accept that musicals are a different form and should have different expectations for them rather than trying to make them more realistic. cause then people who know and like musicals are put off by bad vocals and dance etc. so no one is happy.
that's why I'm so confident about the Mean Girls movie musical, because the musical numbers seem to be like a daydream sequence and I love it when movie musicals do that.
High School Musical is a big part of the musical resurgence. I remember when it premiered my mom said it was our generations ‘Grease’ and I never really forgot that. It was so popular with the young generation that not only did Hollywood start making musicals again, but most TV shows were music based. Hannah Montana, Victorious, Ant Farm, Austin & Alley, Mall of American, etc.
I agree. HSM is one of the few musical movies that people who hate musicals can actually enjoy. Because everything about it was good, the plot, the dialogue, the set design. The issue with so many musicals is that the use song to tell the story rather than creating a relationship between songs and the plot, allowing not only the songs to tell the story but the story to be apart of the songs.
Chicago is one of my favorite movie musicals and it works so well because it balances itself between purely film and purely musical theatre moments. They purposefully create this idea that these actors are really on stage - almost like a really high-quality live broadway recording - with film snippets
If you like Chicago, watch the Caberet movie. It was directed by Bob Fosse who originally choreographed the Chicago musical. The Chicago movie is very inspired by him.
Why I also loved Rocketman over Bohemian Rhapsody as a musical biopic! Rocketman had just my taste of fantasy woven into the musical numbers. I think the recent In The Heights and Matilda movies did this soooo beautifully as well.
Agreed! I think Chicago is one of the best adaptations as well. They do a good job of letting the audience know that there’s the “real” character and then the character that’s day dreaming a musical number for dramatics it’s fun and not random.
I love this, and actually think tick tick boom did a very similar thing. A lot of the musical numbers happen in a 'stage' setting. 30/90 is happening literally on a stage, come to your senses is sung to an audience in the movie. There's a balance of you're watching someone telling this story to an audience in the movie and you're watching someone telling YOU this story.
@@kiaramirenI was thinking of Chicago too. The old way of filming a flat scene happening on stage would take me out of the story. (Like the Nutcracker). But Chicago does it in a fluid way with modern film making. It helps that the characters are performers in more ways than one. I loved Cellophane Man. As an introvert l appreciate the concept of songs revealing one's subconscious and desires.
i hate how we are in this realistic movie/tv era! not everything needs to be hyper realistic and grey and gritty! i get the sense that this is a reaction to the whimsical and unrealistic movies/tv shows in the past but we've definitely swung too far that now we're on the complete opposite side of the spectrum 😕
@ironwolf56 I think she means that even tho there are many superhero movies nowadays, everything is still gritty and real life around it. Maybe that's what she meant.
I agree, especially when it comes to adaptations of existing shows/media, like the winx club adaptations. sometimes i just want a silly, fun, and non-literal watch
Having grown up watching Bollywood movies, there are very few Hollywood musicals that can impress me. The Indian cinema dance numbers have undoubtedly set my standards very very high.
The comment I was looking for! As she was talking I was wondering if she would bring up Bollywood...the audiences have hugely different preferences! Maybe it's bc Bollywood musicals are so much more bright, beautiful, & fantastical that it helps us escape from "reality" faster. Maybe American musicals trying to be so "real" is going in the wrong direction. It also seems Indian art as a whole is more romantic and poetic culturally going back to ancient times, maybe this creates a better appreciation for the musical interpretation?
I think part of the musical problem is that for people who genuinely love musicals, we don't want to go see musicals because the roles are given to big stars over people who are actually capable of singing and dancing at a high level. Emma Watson as Belle - a literal soprano - comes to mind, and Emma Stone in La LA Land comes to mind.
I will ALWAYS have beef with the live action Beauty and the Beast. Emma was the absolute wrong choice for Belle for the reasons explained in the video. Emma just grounded the movie in the wrong way cus 1) her singing was subpar and 2) her acting wasn't alive enough for a damn musical.
I hated LaLa land for that reason (not that the Spotify was bad) but if you’ve seen a movie musical worth it’s salt it was dull to watch to mid singers muddle through musical numbers and dancing.
One thing I love about Steven Spielberg’s production of West Side Story: it’s not embarrassed. Films like 2012’s Les Miserables often feel like they’re embarrassed to be musicals, but Spielberg’s film, while it doesn’t as fully embrace the musical format and theatricality as its predecessor (a personal favourite of mine), it still feels totally sincere in being a musical (with some pretty impressive choreography in my opinion). I honestly wish he’d direct more of them.
The emphasis on community is real because I JUST learned that in the heights and tick tick boom were "underperformers". They are a couple of my favorite musicals and I thought that both of these movies were really great. Aside from my opinion, I thought they were generally popular because everyone in my circles raved about them.
Tick Tick Boom is a damn masterpiece that wasn't expecting at all to be as good as it was. I truly had no idea how Lin was gonna translate this quirky Larson piece onto screen, but GODDAMMIT it worked somehow! And it makes me want Lin to direct more stuff, he clearly knows how to translate stage musicals to the screen.
I think some of it comes down to Marketing and movies now having way to many venues for release. How many “underperformers” had theatrical releases? I know people are going to the movies less, but if I’m paying a subscription fee, I’d rather go to the theater than pay for each service to see all these movies. I’m sure Tim Tick Boom is great, but I don’t have the service and saw next to no marketing for it. A lot of movies across the board are getting little marketing or the marketing itself is poor.
@@rahbeeuh if you want a comedy, try 3 idiots; if you like romance, try Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge (DDLJ), & if you like epics, try Baahubali & RRR (these 2 are not Bollywood, they are Tollywood but they are still incredible)
I am also a former theater kid. I don't get why Wonka and the Mean Girls Musical movie weren't marketed with the songs. Especially cuz without the song, it feels like a remake of the original.
Idk I feel like I always figured Wonka would be a musical. I enjoyed it, even the original songs, tho I dare say “Pure Imagination” was the one that stayed in my head for a while. @amoniqueocampo did you like it?
I find it ironic that Barbie which wasn’t marketed as a musical, released the clip of I’m just Ken and people went crazy, but they balk at the idea of them showing a song in the mean girls or wonka trailer…
I also thought they were remakes, and I wouldn't want to watch Mean Girls in that case, because with more teenager/pop kinda movies the remakes usually just try to make the same thing but make it trendy or incorporate current memes and that usually comes out kinda cringey as trends and memes move faster than a movie production time, so the trends/memes on the movie are already outdated by the time it comes out. In the end it's just an iconic thing turned cringe With it being an adaptation into a musical it is way more promising and has something new to the story
Musical theater is by far the strongest storytelling device, in my opinion. Seeing how lifeless Disney songs became after Howard Ashman passed away says enough. Edit: “What about-“ “You didn’t mention-“ “WHAT ABOUT ENCAN-“ can you people shut the heII up already 😭
Danny Elfman is still alive and they haven’t used him for a musical since Nightmare Before Christmas (or Corpse Bride if you count other studios) and they even cancelled the two other musicals he wrote the entire scripts for.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 I love Danny Elfman so much! He just understands the nuance of lyrical storytelling so well, especially when it comes to love. Imagine they used him for WISH and not Julia 😭 Hell he probably could’ve helped save the plot and bad writing too with the music alone
@@SuperJust4girls He signed a contract with Disney to score a certain number of movies with them in exchange for letting him write some of his own musicals that were going to be directed by somebody else (he also wrote a script for a non musical movie that he wanted to direct himself). They canned his movies anyway. He only got so far as to record the demos.
@@princessnicki63 I know! I like the idea for Wish so it’s a real shame they made it crappy! Who is this Julia anyway? Is she a false MeTooing homewrecker like Nomi Abadi? She’s trying to defame Elfman but I’ve contacted her ex manager on Instagram and he confirms that she’s a liar with narcissistic and or borderline personality disorder and her music sounds like AI too.
Sideways' video essays are among the best things I have ever seen on this platform. Sideways has taught me so much about how and why music (in movies) functions and I am just so genuinly thankful for that. I really hope that legend returns someday.
I think my distaste for MOVIE musicals is because lately, casting directors pick actors that aren’t good enough singers for the roles they’re in. I like stage musicals a lot because not only are the performers so awesome, but I think they capture the story and the emotion of the music in a way that movies sometimes fail to do.
This is nothing new. Julie Andrews was famously passed over for Audrey Hepburn to star in My Fair Lady. Hopefully now that “star power” in films is hardly a thing anymore, this doesn’t happen as often.
@@mhawang8204 which is kind of intresting as Audrey was dubbed for singing which is another aspect for musicals that you see less and less where you would see it in the 90s and you would have those awkward dubbing where the voices sound so different to each other, most of the disney movies at the time had pretty good dubs when it came to the singing that you wouldn't feel like "oh this character is voiced by someone else now" but in the here and now dubbing is thrown out the window along with choosing people who are talented at singing so you get those weak voice perfomances
My thinking is thus: If a stage actor can have the charisma and talent to dance, act and sing and interact with props on what's basically half a sound stage for 8 shows a night live to an audience of the hundreds to low thousands, they're sure as hell good enough to hold the attention of a camera.
honest, its so sad that the mean girls musical has such wasted advertisement. As a theater kid I had no idea it was the musical but when I found out I was so much more invested.
The SOLE reason I did was because you can hear (if memory serves me right) the Apex Predator tune toward the end of the trailer for a split second, but during a title screen and not long enough for anyone to realise that it’s a song from the musical.
Yeah I'm not a big fan of "tricking" audience members who have aversions to musicals to seeing the movie because as you pointed out its making your actual audience base not want to see it because they're unaware the film is for them. Not to mention by not advertising it as the musical version it's only counting on the nostalgia market which isn't sustainable. In fact, many people are tired of reboots and remakes. At least advertise that this film will be different than the original with subtle call backs to what made it popular to begin with.
As a theater kid I would much rather watch a pro shot of the actual stage show rather than a Hollywood movie version of a musical. Movie adaptations of popular musicals are almost always disappointing.
Yes!! - I hoped that Hamilton would usher in a new phase of recorded musicals but I don't think that has happened. My biggest pet peeve is when they take out songs from the original version, just to replace it with an out-of-place pop song that they can see on the radio, even though it does not fit in the musical.
correction: CONTEMPORARY movie adaptations of popular musicals are almost always disappointing. but there are many great older movie adaptations of musicals, mostly from the 60s and 70s!!
I went to see Wonka the day it came out with my mates. As soon as Timothee started singing our suspension of disbelief was just completely shattered because we went into the movie expecting to see a non-singing movie. I have nothing against muscials, I'm a theatre kid myself, but it just felt really jarring compared to my expectations of the film.
@@celeri6497 I’m sorry, neither of the previous Willy Wonka movies were musicals??? What about ‘come with me, and we’ll be, in a world of pure imagination’ or ‘Oompa, loompa, duptity dee’? According to wikipedia, the first movie has a total of 14 different songs, 36 minutes and 28 seconds of the movie’s 100 minute run time?
@@deinogreenstreet8631 I think it is because nothing in the trailer makes you think there will be songs in it. Also the songs are mostly done by the oompa loompas and in the trailers, there don't seem to be a tone of them. So yeah I haven't seen the movie, but I'm surprised to learn it is a musical cause watching the trailer, I just expect something magical, not a musical.
Personally, the main is issue is the singing technique. When Rachel Zegler sings in West side Story or in hunger Games, I could feel that she knew what she was doing and the execution is perfect. She is also musical trained. For Timothee chalamet in Wonka, it felt that he learned how to sing musicals recently or didn't. With my singing coach we mostly do contemporary singing but when we do musicals, the technique is different. It focuses on the storytelling within the song plus vocal style. For example, Show Boat (1951) is lyrical singing whereas Chicago (1975) is jazz singing and Everybody's Talking About Jamie (2017) is pop singing. Conclusion, the singing technique used is the main issue in most of those films and hiring someone that knows this technique or has more experience
"because people don't just burst into song" said by people who never hung out with theater kids. My roommate in college dated one girl who would literally burst into a room singing
Their friend groups are the most toxic, cynical, insecure places around and they think we're all like that. I mean, can't we all just belt Paramore in peace?
@JoaoPessoa86 same music was always active in my family growing up I moved out and now everything just feels dull without music and few people understand
My sister literally bought me a mug that said, "People who say no one bursts into song in real life have clearly never been to my house." Tis the truth.
Growing up with Bollywood, it's really interesting to see how much people seem to hate musical movies when a movie not being a musical is an extremely rare occurrence here
So fair! I adore Bollywood films, my French teacher would show us some of her favourites toward the end of the school semestre and it was a highlight, it was amazing.
We can't possibly compare the Broadway Musicals to what Bollywood churns out in dull unoriginality. Sorry, I have spent 7 years in India and seen many, and not one comes anywhere close to being a 'classic' or even Good by any International standards.
@@eldiran2 Plus, Bollywood, and Broadway Musicals are so different like the songs in Broadway musicals are very integrated into the story down to the dialogue. Someone will be taking in the next line and then burst out singing in another. Bollywood doesn't exactly have that as we see from all the song and dance numbers with background dancers and exotic settings randomly showing up in a serious plot-line about a serious topic (l-lol). Also, people on Broadway can actually sing and sing well. I highly doubt Bollywood actors can do that because most of the time, they lip-sync to actual singers lol.
@@ClappingandCheering This is true. And, yes, Bollywood songs are all lip-synced, usually to 'playback singers'. Hollywood musical numbers were, and mostly still are, also done to pre-recorded tracks, and in prior days the actors often did NOT sing their own songs. Streisand insisted she do the finale in 'Funny Girl" 1968 live to get the emotions right, and also all the songs in her version of 'Star Is Born" 1976. Then came 'Les Miserables" 2012, where ALL the songs were sung live (and obviously so--some off-key notes here and there!). Sadly, in most Bollywood movies, the actots make minimum effort to even imiate singing the songs, which I find shocking when you watch 'Over The Rainbow" in 'The Wizard of Oz' which is expertly lip-syned way back in 1939!!
@@eldiran2I'm sorry to say, but I haven't seen one musical from Hollywood that could come even remotely close to Bollywood. And as for actors lip syncing to songs, it's actually a really great shortcut idea to have great musical performance in every movie, and one of the reasons why Bollywood musical works, coz how many People can you find who got looks, acting, talent, plus singing talent, plus dancing talent. Surely not many, And Bollywood is only a film industry for India, while Hollywood is international with actors from all over North America, Europe and South America. Even with India having a billion population, you can't really find much actors who excel at singing, dancing , acting and are good looking to boot, all at the same time. So the lip syncing technique works here, coz u get really legendary singers , especially the ones trained in classical music like Hindustani classical and Carnatic. Plenty of Bollywood singers are like that, giving their voices for the films. You should definitely check out Sanjay Leela Bhansali, he is the best director in Bollywood when it comes to Musicals. No Hollywood musicals, come close to his Bollywood musicals, not even close. Sorry pal. Oh, and did u know, recently a song from the film RRR (which is a Tollywood film, not Bollywood) but still an Indian film nevertheless. Won an Oscar for the best original song and musical, lol. Honestly you really sound really ignorant in ur assessment of Bollywood, the actors do not do proper lip syncing and do not potray emotions, lol 😂😂😂. Maybe the word emotion means different to Europeans than it does to Asians
It's worth noting that recently Disney, which literally cranks out the most modern musical films, even tried to step into more "pop" tones with Wish recently. Ironically, everyone got mad, asking for the more traditional broadway soundtrack, so maybe there's an argument to be made to studios that the interest is there for a traditional musical sound.
True, but it's still mostly in animation. People are a lot more willing to accept a musical number in a world that is already highly stylized. This is also why Bollywood works: the entire world is highly stylized. It's the same reason you don't hate the magic in a well done fantasy show: the world is stylized enough that the magic makes sense within it. In fact, in the best musicals, the songs really *are* a magic system: time moves differently during the song, allowing for people to accomplish impossible or at least improbable tasks. Melodies push and pull on one another, making characters do things. The songs can reference each other, leading to character development.
it was so weird of them to make Wish soundtrack like that when their most recent musical, Encanto, was so sucessful bc you know an actual broadway composer made the songs. We Don't Talk About Bruno, the most sucessful song of the movie, is literally the most Modern Broadway song ever. Have you seen the voice l ayering they did by the end of the song and the composition of the scenes in the movie? Its just so theatric. Lin Manuel Miranda is kinda corny but his musicals never miss
@@mayruuh Trolls which only leans on regurgitating pop songs is also super popular with kids. I think that's what Disney was thinking when they decided a pop soundtrack might be successful.
So glad that you mentioned La La Land. It is one of my favourite movies and I love that while it pays homage to past musicals, this movie also has it's own set of songs and the score being instantly recognizable today
Musicals as a format can be so well used and meaningful, I love the concept. Yet there are so many with so much lost potential. Musicals deserve better!
Crazy ex girlfriend is the prime example of storytelling through song. There's so much we can experience with a choreography and a song that caters to a specific genre; it's like translating feelings into a format that may be easier to understand.
@@nicoleranieri8033 I love Crazy Ex-GF. The ending actually explains the musical format in a way that makes sense for the story and was also really sweet 😭 (not that I want this for every on screen musical but it really worked for this show). Now, Rachel Bloom is working on the score for a musical version of The Nanny which I am psyched for!
@@PsychedelicSquirrel that's so cool, I didn't know that! and yep, totally. When they explain that it was basically her way of processing things she wouldn't have known how to handle, and that translating it into song and dance made her navigate the world better, and that only a few people have access to it it (she shows it to Paula and probably mentions it to Dr Akopian), I was once more in awe of the wittiness of of this show. So brilliant. It reminds me a bit of Fleabag, when the priest notices that she has a bridge with another world (us) - Rebecca is explaining to us how she really sees (and very often distorts) situations and we see them through a less objective lens - after all, she's the crazy ex girlfriend and we must understand her journey. I fucking love this show lol
Nightmare Before Christmas wasn’t even appreciated by Disney when it first came out as it wasn’t the type of musical they were used to. Didn’t become popular until many years later when Disney realized that it was a cult favorite at Hot Topic or whatever.
26:04 this is exactly why enchanted (2007) worked. it was live action (even though some bits are animated, most is liveaction) but in a way that is ‘ridiculous’ and fantasious because of the nature of the film, giselle being from the enchanted animated land where anything is possible and her, along with the other characters from that land, kinda bring the magic to our real world, thus making it more plausible that magic, enchantments and breaking into song be more acceptable and make more sense to the audience (still is a little strange in that one scene, ‘how does she know’ buttttt you get my point, they make sense of it with the created reality within our reality if that makes sense)
I agree, musicals have to either be openly absurdist/fantastical or super realistic with a plot that revolves around singers/performers. Anything in between and you get an uncanny valley.
frankly, i disagree. it's disingenuous to ask for musicals to be "realistic", when it's entire premise is literally about people breaking into song. we don't hold other mediums and genres to that same regard. are there as many complaints of aliens in scifi, or wizards in fantasy? the reason why enchanted works is that it's a musical, and the production of it treated it as one. if you think that musicals fall into uncanny valleys, or have a hard time suspending disbelief, i strongly urge you to watch more live theatre, not even musicals! i strongly think that people who don't "get" musicals just aren't used to it--specifically fiction in a physical space. mina sort of touches on it in 28:06 and 32:30.
@@peirogi8871 I agree with your take! and with that mina touched it later on, and I do watch live theatre pretty often too, it’s just that for me, not everything has to be a musical. it works with some pieces of work and with others it doesn’t, maybe because of the theme/story or just the execution wasnt right but yeah musicals don’t have to be realistic obvs, for me it just has to be unrealistically realistic, if that makes sense
Young children often sing spontaneously. I'm not sure why we so often lose this trait as adults (although there are no real-life spontaneous choreographed dance numbers, unfortunately lol).
I burst out into song all the time as a kid 😭 I think it was the Disney movies from the 90s, they all were musicals! now I'm a regular at karoake so I still get to sing 🥲
When the Sweeney Todd movie by Tim BUrton came out in 2007 it also wasn't marketed as a musical film. I remember the trailer beeing free from any sung words and I was really surprised in the theatre when it turned out to be a musical. People even left the theatre because they were execting a horror movie. It was really something...
I remember when I took my cousin to see Into The Woods and we were asked when we bought the tickets whether we were aware it was a musical. We were like 'yeah, of course we know that, there's singing in the trailer?' and apparently the cinema had had multiple people demanding their money back because they hadn't know so the manager had begun making the employees double check before selling any more tickets.
@@MK-gv1wd I definitely feel like that’s an element that nobody talks about. That studios are so desperate to get non-musical fans through the door that they butcher the original musical and end up not even satisfying the musical’s actual fans. Like I understand not every song is going to make it because of time constraints or not working in the film medium, but some movie musicals really do take the mick.
I think the immense success of pitch perfect can be attributed to this idea of more palatable, realistic ways of utilising the musical format in live action film, grounding it in reality which seemingly makes movie-goers much more inclined to watch what is essentially a ‘musical.’ An amazing video essay as always mina
Honestly I miss the old Hollywood musicals. Part of the thing I love is how divorced from reality they are. It makes them so fun! It’s a similar reason to why I love David Lynch films. There’s this dream like quality that other movies just don’t have. Movie musicals need to bring back the dream ballet. My favorite musical is Into the Woods and my favorite movie musical is Singin in the Rain
I think actors worked harder back then. They were larger than life-you remember them. Though of course some went overboard…like Gene Kelly working Debbie Renolds until her feet were bleeding. Yikes.
Why do people (apparently) want everything to be realistic anyway? And, of course, they don't or Marvel and _Fast & the Furious_ movies wouldn't have been big not that long ago. The idea that we need to have people who can't sing doing the singing in musicals for people to be open to hearing them sing is rather frustrating.
I'm a huge musical theatre nerd and in my old age of my 30s (lmao) I'm still in community musical theatre AND I just wishhhhh there was a david lynch musical I think of the musical numbers from his movies and how captivating and creepy they are and ughhhh the potential for an unsettling musical would be amazing
I've always thought that it was odd to complain about there being singing in musicals. It's simply accepted as a convention of the genre, like Iambic Pentameter in Shakespeare, or a car chase in an action flick.
Wait until you realize some people actively hate flamboyance and fun even when it's appropriate lol. Look up reviews of the new Doctor Who Christmas special. People hate the goblin song just because it's a song, even if the show can be anything, they expect a serious, grounded, solemn show
Some people do, indeed hate those things you mentioned. Ig ppl can find anything unnecessary. I don’t disagree or agree, like a well done anything works but it can also come from bad examples (there are really good car chases and really bad musicals) n vice versa but outliers can define your perception, esp if they were consistently bad… it also comes from ignorance. “Why are they talking like that? Shakespeare sucks!” Similar to musicals, people who like them tend to know the history. All I’ll say is that there’s bad examples of everything. Even Shakespeare wrote some hot trash (it’s funny cus we only really exp his like 3 best plays and they’re still salty 😭). but like, the og italian job has a great car chase and if you watch funny girl and you STILL hate musicals, then yes you hate musicals. But it’s such a great film that seamlessly fuses songs into dialogue I think people who hate all other musicals, could be turned around.
You read my mind exactly. It’s amazing what people are willing to suspend their disbelief for, but singing and dancing in a movie is a step too far? It’s OK to not be a fan of the musical genre, but to decry something that is the entire point of the genre? That is incredibly stupid.
@@harrietamidala1691 classic Who, Tennant and Capaldi captured those more solemn elements but the whole point to me is that there's a bucket, armed with a plunger and screwdriver, and we're pretending it's a human hating Dalek and it's all really silly, camp, and a bit like the Magic School Bus. Anything can happen!
Oh my god I can’t believe you mentioned that bugs life ride lol. That was legitimately terrifying to me as a 6 year old and I continue to avoid 3D movies to this day. There was a part in it where the bugs were like, “you’ve been k*lling us so now it’s our turn to k*ll you” and then a spray can of raid came on the screen and smoke filled the room. Which I think is pretty intense for Disney lmao. That plus the 4D feeling of bugs crawling all over my feet, legs, back, and neck was like a living nightmare
There was one 4d experience in Texas about the dust bowl and it had a chair that would suddenly feel like a snake came up and bit you. Still traumatized 20 years later.
The most intense part for me was the wasp stinging you in the back. I loved it, it's still one of my favourite films, but man, that scared me so bad I almost peed hahahaha I think that's the loudest I've ever been in front of my parents
God, I hated that attraction. That terrified the hell out of me. I never went to it again whenever I returned to California’s adventure park and I don’t think it’s there anymore because it’s cars land.
Thank goodness I did the bug’s life attraction with a friend who visits the parks every year. She warned me when the 4d features were coming up so I wouldn’t freak out.
I will always be a defender of musicals. There’s just something about how it uses it’s own unique storytelling technique that I just find it an amazing and engaging art form.
The solution to bad musicals is not none at all, but better ones. The problem is desperately trying to copy modern trends in pop music when the OG is cringe to begin with. Why can't the music in musicals be its own thing without having to pander to the systematically lowered expectations of Top 40 dreck? I'd rather watch Elvis movies than sit through some of the sorry excuses for what Hollywood considers a musical these days. It's the same reason I can barely stand any pop "music" after the 1980s. Bad singing, bad songs, bad production, bad everything. And the autotune has got to go. As weathered as Lucille Ball sounded in *Mame,* at least you can tell that's her. At least they do not disguise her struggling to stay in tune. And was she really worse than Yoko Ono? Or (and I know they'll raise the interest rate on my GayCard for this) Harvey Fierstein? Pop music was already dumbing down the standards for what constituted good singing, and it was only a matter of time before movie musicals responded in kind. "Musicals are dead" is a narrative that became a self-fulfilling prophesy. This is why to some of us 1980s kids, *Annie,* the Muppet movies, and even *The New Adventures of Pippi Longstocking* were like water in the desert, and *The Little Mermaid* was like manna from the Heaven that took Howard Ashman from us way too soon. *Mermaid* in particular benefited from the momentum generated by home video helping whatever musicals there were in the few years before it recover their production costs.
I think another reason people hate modern musicals is because the songs just dong make sense where theyre placed. In older musicals and older Disney animations, the song was supposed to represent an important and intimate / exciting part of the story. With modern music it just feel like, "the character is singing here because the lighting is good in this one scene."
i didnt always hate musicals as much as i do now, and maybe youre right,, in the old disney animated musicals its almost like they were structurally important transitional scenes, and not just something to extend the run time
@@toastonmitchell2636 or when the characters are in Bombay or Delhi, then they fall in love and transport to a mountain in Switzerland for an emotional song. also, the item songs, even though I don't like the name of them, mostly make no narrative sense, they are just there for fun.
Most Bollywood try to incorporate modern, popular music, whereas most American musicals is not music like pop/ hip hop or other current sounds unlike Hamilton. The equivalent of Badshah would not normally be in a Hollywood music. This is my opinion of someone who loved Hollywood musicals and then got into Bollywood.
well bollywood films arent rlly the same as (hollywood) musicals. like ya they have songs too, but its usually like 1 or 2 songs while musicals have a new song almost every other scene. i think thats why my parents dont like musicals lol
Love the connection you made between Musicals back in the day being star vehicles. It explains why they thrive as part of my country's cinema (Indian cinema/Bollywood). We still operate on the star system here and most of our films are musicals. The bigger the film (star, budget & scale wise), the more chances of them having an 8-10 song OST. And we love those films here. It's very interesting to me that Hollywood operates exactly the opposite to that.
I think the star vehicles still exist....theyve just switched to directors. Cause theyre definitely directors like Quentin Tarantino or Chistopher Nolan for example that can sell a movie based on their name alone.
It is very strange that things have changed so much! I think you're right, and I also wonder if another part of it is that in Indian cinema it's more accepted for there to be playback singers rather than expecting the actor to also do all the singing? I don't know if a Hollywood star's ego would survive them having to admit that when their character sings, it's not their voice. For example, the movie Singing in the Rain has as part of its plot that an actress doesn't want it revealed that all her lines are dubbed, and threatens to sue the studio if they reveal that fact. Even our animated movies have trended towards hiring big name actors rather than voice actors, even though acting onscreen and doing voice work require different skills, because the star's name is what sells tickets.
@@nerdpantsandme That is a very interesting take. Yes, we do have backup singers and actors are just expected to deliver by lipsyncing on screen. But when it comes to ego, the actors back here carry the same ton of it I'd say. Example: A huge star like RDJ playing a supporting role in Oppenheimer...that would never happen back here with big stars. Their ego just wouldn't allow them to not be the main lead of a film. Films are sold by the lead actors names. Sometimes I think musicals in Indian just work because that is what our palettes are used to. That is the only mainstream we've known for so long and we ride with it. Big star films make tons of money, but that also hinders creative decisions imo.
To me the criticism that people don't like musicals because "people don't break out in song in real life" is BAFFLING. Because, yes, people DO break out in song! People sing to themselves, in their homes, while showering, with group of friends, sometimes at school, at parties. Go to a football stadium and there are chants that EVERYBODY knows. Singing is a VERY normal part of life. At the very least it's way more realistic than SUPERPOWERS, or complex action scenes and yet, that criticism is never thrown at superhero or action movies. Look, musicals not being your favorite is one thing. I usually say I don't like westerns, but there ARE westerns that I like, and if I hear good things about it, I'll watch them and every once in a while I'll like them. But dismissing musicals altogether is ridiculous and childish. Dismissing a whole genre is not being a lover of the arts.
While you’re right in saying that people do tend to sing to themselves etc, I think part of the hatred towards musicals nowadays also stems from a weirdly intense need for “realism”. So often things are reworked and rewritten to be edgier, darker, more “real” versions of an older piece of art because of how set modern audiences are on not utilizing their suspension of disbelief- there’s such little lighting in certain films, and while one might argue it’s to create ambience, I’d say that at a certain point it just becomes annoying to look at the screen and have no idea what’s going on just because “they wouldn’t have overhead lighting in this moment”. There are SO many ways to use lighting creatively (see: Suspiria 1977) and I believe the same can be done for musicals! In musicals, people break into song because that’s what the genre dictates, and it’s 100% ok for that to exist even if it’s not like real life: not everything we see at the cinema needs to be a framing of staunch realism, film can also be abstract and “nonsensical” while maintaining a serious tone!
Yeah, if you say this I'm gonna figure you only watch media that's like, the most mundane realistic workplace, school, or family films, or maybe only documentaries.
The real reason for the hate definitely isn't realism, it's cringe culture and the deep allergy towards things being earnest and campy. Everybody's gotta be 2 cool 4 school and ironypilled. No fun allowed. Buncha weakness smelling piranhas, I hate it.
The way I always argued it, is that real life doesn't have a backing soundtrack, either. And yet, Hans Zimmer is integral to many Christopher Nolan films, Randy Newman and Michael Giacchino define Disney/Pixar movies, and several more composers have reached great acclaim. Soundtracks are a separate award at the Oscars! Everyone is much more welcoming to the beauty of non-diegetic music that evokes great emotions so long as it doesn't have words in it . . . .
I LOVE that you mentioned Sideways. I love his videos! I've just rewatched a bunch of them, they're so great! I hope he's happy and thriving. Thank you for your videos Mina, they're all so interesting and well made!
The color purple is different i feel. It wasn’t explicitly said but quite a few members of the main cast are singers first and foremost. Fantasia, halle bailey, ciara so it wasn’t a jump scare like mean girls and wonka.
I was a wannabe theatre kid with crippling low self esteem. I worked backstage and designed sets bc I couldn’t work up the nerve to audition. Even so, I will always LOVE musicals. I genuinely think ppl who hate/say they hate musicals don’t know how to have fun and live very sad lives. 😮💨😮💨
Sets and backstage work are so important to theatrical storytelling (I could write essays on how shows utilise the space and how it's part of the story) You're not a wannabe, babe. Here, have a star 🌟
If you worked backstage and designed sets you ARE a theatre kid. Backstage people are just as important! I like acting but I'm afraid of using power tools (set design) and heights (lighting). I would not be able to do what you've done. 😅
I was considered an “athlete” in high school but I had one of my friends ask me to volunteer as a techie for a musical. I LOVED ITTTT. I am so thankful he introduced me to musicals omg can’t get enough of it
We have our own version of fun. You theater kids are very narcissistic & pushy for wanting everyone else to be like you. Read a book & study behavioral science once in a while, you conceited lot
If you at all like musicals and have not seen "In the Heights", get on it! It's amazing! The dancing is awesome, the musical filmmaking is so good, and the story is so dang sincere. Also, I had the pleasure of seeing it with a Puerto Rican New Yorker and if her reaction is anything to go by, it captures the heart of its story. Also, after watching it, your hype for Wicked will go through the roof. I cannot wait to see Jon M. Chu film Dancing Through Life.
I fell in love with how wonderfully Jon M. Chu adapted this musical for film (the musical has a special spot in my heart since its story hits close to home and my country was the first place to do a stage production of it outside the US back in 2011). I still get chills seeing how Paciencia y Fe was done; great choreography and really good use of staging one can do with film you cannot do onstage (plus bringing back several of the original cast members while choosing new members who fit the characters well) in a way that makes the storytelling feel alive. I hope to see his work for Wicked succeed and movie theater numbers do it justice for all the hard work poured into it once it releases 🥺
@crafteariee That filming/staging of Paciencia y Fe breaks me in pieces every single time. And her performance...completely heartbreaking. More people need to know about it.
i'm surprised you didn't mention matilda the musical's movie adaptation as I think it's one of the best movie musicals we've had in recent years. as always, loved the video!!
I think Chicago did a great job of allowing you to suspend reality bc the songs were set up like we are going into Roxy’s imagination, where conveniently reality is suspended. The added touch of doing the songs like a musical number on stage bc she is obsessed with that lifestyle was exactly what was needed to keep the story flowing and they would edit the film so well to cut to moments of “reality” and Roxy’s imagination which I thought was genius.
@@Attmay I can see that. I’m always interested in seeing creative ways to do the musical thing but i love musicals. Maybe the world would be better if we all burst into song in real life.
As someone who's only allowed myself to sing outloud (in front of other people) in the last year, I think that the distance between who "can" sing and who "can't" was what was stopping me from singing, I've been really getting into folk music and I realised that everyone's voice is designed for singing, it's literally really good for our health to sing and when we all sing together it sounds great, and some songs are more suited to my style of singing than others (say modern pop songs), I LOVE singing and it's opened up a new way of feeling and expressing my emotions, and I've also started playing my flute and penny whistle again and learning folk music instead of classical. I think there's a thing about being 'cringe' that's inherent with singing, but god I enjoy it so much that I don't care how cringe it is, I've organised a wassail for the apple trees in my village next week and I'm so nervous but excited to sing with strangers to our apple trees!
Literally same!! I swear cringe culture will be the death of us, I only got over it cause my passion for singing in musicals is stronger and I have friends to share it with, but it holds so many people (and movies apparently) back and it's so sad to see
People are hypocritical af about musicals. Someone says they hate musicals, ask them what their favorite Disney movie is and they will probably say a musical. Also musicals can be amazing for stuff like character development and depth, very underestimated.
Encanto was their last original musical before Wish. Encanto songs were bangers and were actually important to the story because they let the characters express themselves
@@DORAisD34D and what do you know, Encanto's music was written (at least in part) by Lin-Manuel Miranda! Meanwhile Wish was written by pop writers, which admittedly isn't always a recipe for failure, but it certainly didn't help when the story was flat and the characters generally unmemorable (name all of Asha's 7 friends off the top of your head if you don't believe me)
i’m a current theater kid and i’m not going to lie, subconsciously i don’t even categorize most disney or movie musicals as actual musicals. to me its a movie with songs in it, unless its a movie adaptation of an existing stage play or it plays up the theatricality. for example hairspray. thats a musical! mulan? a movie with singing in it. les mis? a musical. willy wonka? a movie with singing in it. edit: i say theater kid, but im 27 pursing a career in theater production.
I have to disagree. Disney musicals are designed like a conventional musical. Most of them have the “I want song” and the songs progress the plot or convey the characters’ inner monologues. That’s why Disney can make their movies into stage productions without changing much in the book. For the same reasons, I’d say Wonka is more a musical than the original.
to me, a musical is theatrical in nature, not a mere definition of "here is the equation, so it's a musical." there is something specific in the cadence of the dialogue, the costumes the characters wear, the contents of the songs, not just furthering the plot but telling a story (aka not an aside, an actual story). when i think of a disney movie, i think "there's singing" i don't think "this is a musical, because by definition it's a musical" there's no feeling of musical theater to me at all, which is where i get my definition of "musical". 90% of animated musical movies do not feel like musicals at all because in a musical there is an inherent feeling of "you are watching me TELL you a story through a dramatic reenactment" not "here's the story, pretend this is happening right now"@@mhawang8204
@@fishtickI hink the commenter is talking about old Disney which were directed by Ashman such as the little mermaid (animated if course) and Beauty and the Beast.Howard Ashman was famous due for not only using broadway actors in his movies but using a broadway/opera take of it.He is the whole reason why Disney songs are synonymous with musicals. Sadly this changed with when Frozen came which took a more pop direction with it song ‘Let it Go’ this then pushed later Disney animated movies to take the same direction and is the reason why ‘Wish’ has the pop song direction.
I liked the Les Mis movie but comparing it to the real live musical is not possible. I saw Les Mis on West End back in .07 and it was magnificent. Not a dry eye in the audience when it ended. I really enjoy musicals. ❤
I loved Wonka. It was so whimsical and different than every other movie nowadays. Also a reason why I liked Barbie: different, non-realistic, not taking itself seriously
Mina at 19:50 saying people don't follow individual creators so closely anymore and consume all their videos, as if we're not all plunking ourselves down to listen to whatever rabbit hole Mina has decided to delightfully inform us about this time.
Lately it seems a lot of people have been using youtube as one would use tiktok -mindlessly scrolling through shorts -but thankfully the platform still allows and (somewhat) promotes the earlier creator based watching habits. The mere fact that on youtube you "subscribe" to a creator's "channel", rather than "follow" their "profile", creates a clear distinction (even if subconsciously) in how you approach the content you are viewing.
I adored Wonka and I love musicals but I will never forget the visceral reaction I had when Timothee first began singing, it took several minutes for my shock to dissipate and for normal service to resume. Despite the rocky beginnings and my total lack of faith in his casting, I think Timothee really nailed it when combined with the charming and cosy positivity and optimistic Paddington-esque vibe.
Paramount didn't give the original film much promotion after the huge promotional pushes they gave to *Paint Your Wagon* and *On a Clear Day You Can See Forever* did not result in greater box office revenues. They treated it as just another children's movie with little to no adult appeal. The ratings system was relatively new so this was one of the first movie musicals to actually begin life with a G rating and not just get slapped with it after the fact like so many re-issues of pre-1968 movie musicals.
Timothee didn't nail it at all. He came off as cringy. Boy really can't do much more than brooding boy roles. They should have picked a musically trained actor
I didn't understand why they were doing a mean or color purple remakes until I watched your earlier video mentioning it was a musical. I'm more excited to watch both movies because they're musicals
I wish ppl released more proshots of broadway musicals instead of adapting them!!! their contagious energy and pure live vocals and talent gets lost in the live action translation.
I think it's a mistake to assume that casting an actor who is also a singer trained in theatre will lower the quality of the acting. That's the whole point, to convey these emotions and feelings through the singing. No opera singer will break their voice and deform the music to convey that the character is happy, sad, in love, devastated, or dying, and the emotions are still there when the artist is good enough. But when the acting is hyper-realistic with a butchered song, then the scene loses substance.
@@alwaysrootingfortheantihero123 and you can clearly see that with the other actors in Les Mis who have a theater background like Aaron Tveit and Samantha Barks
@@Lety-Ferreira yes, it killed me three times over to hear javert sing, then hear cosette and eponine, and Hugh jackman’s bring him home was just not it
As my theatre teacher said when we did a musical at school: musicals are dumb so take yourself seriously on stage. And this abt fiddler on the roof so it’s not a happy go lucky show, but you just have to let go of realism for the serious message to land
I'm worried about that with the mean girls musical. I'm really excited for it, but i hope they lean into the traditional broadway aspect more and not try to make it too modern or realistic. Tina Fey and her husband said they wanted it to feel like a pop album from spotify and that worries me.
Some movies that got turned into musicals could have worked if the songs were better. I used to look at books and plays and wonder how to adapt them for the screen. Now I watch movies and wonder where to put songs in the inevitable musical version.
I’ve been to a broadway rave, and holy shit it was so fun, but I would absolutely perish if I was not into theater and was brought to one unbeknownst to me. But you really don’t want people to be there who don’t want to be there bc they’ll ruin it
I like musicals, but don't like a lot of musical theater..... However my bestie is a musical theater kid. So I bought us tickets to Broadway rave thinking it would be musical theater club remixes or something. Finding out that it was nothing but musical theater kids singing along was absolutely miserable for me. But my friend ended up having a blast. I ended up just hanging out in the bathroom and making friends with some of the venue staff because I didn't want to ruin her good time... Especially since it was my bright idea in the first place 💀💀💀
Your point at 26:00 made me realize why Chicago works for me while a lot of other movie musicals don't. When it comes to the musical numbers, they're done either on an actual stage (which makes them make sense in reality) or they're done in the individual or collective imaginations of the characters. Roxie performs in her fantasies, the lawyer metaphorically tap dances through his cross examination (with shots of the actual tap dance on a disembodied stage woven through the scene), etc. It wouldn't have worked any other way.
Totally not to dismiss your perspective, it just made me think of this (and this doesn't apply to musical fantasy/imagination sequences). But I do think it can be risky when musicals try too hard to be "not like the other musicals" and always have Good Reasons People Are Singing. There are definitely musicals I feel do this in a negative way that are widely loved, so it might just be a pet peeve, but sometimes it does feel like someone who hates musicals has decided to write a musical and just doesn't get the genre. So the overall affect can be alienating to people who actually like musicals, if the movie is kind of apologizing for being a musical or trying too hard to be Super Realistic about it. It's also often considered more Realistic if the songs don't have to do with what the characters are going through at that moment (if it's just a job or karaoke party or whatever), and specifically trying to avoid using the songs to further characterization and plot is just a disappointment imo.
@@MadameCorgi Sure it would, Chicago lifted the formula from Cabaret. Tick Tick Boom also did it well. But of course like Howard Ashman put it, the best method to get people to check reality at the door is animation.
My favorite musicals growing up was Calamity Jane and singing in the rain! Honestly classic musicals are still my favorite movies and always will be. Thanks for the interesting video, I hadn’t really thought about why they don’t work as well now, but this honestly explains a lot.
My favorite musical is Moulin Rouge, and I think it's a perfect balance between the theatrical and realistic genres. I think it doesn't get enough credit!
I LOVE musicals, it is my favorite genre, and I really still can not understand why people don't like them, they just make me happy... the "people don't burst into song in real life" argument doesn't convince me because you are watching a movie so it makes sense to me that many things that happen in any movie, people don't do in real life... I don't know, I just love musicals, for me, if you tell me that a movie is a musical I'll go to see it
i recently saw The Wicker Man -- a folk horror movie that's at least somewhat a musical, full of characters singing folk songs. i think it is brilliant and part of what sets the movie apart, and i wish more movies now were able to break from formula like this, but also i feel the studios dont trust audiences to let themselves appreciate anything other than the formula -- rightly or wrongly
I love the wicker man! and you’re right, I specifically think the musical element in it helps *so* much in adding another layer of unsettling ambience to the whole story
Hearing Sideways' voice was such a pleasant surprise! I've really missed his content and I hope he'll make his return this year! Great video as always❤
An aspect to this you might not have considered/known about is how the animatic scene on UA-cam of fanmade scenes to popular musical songs either with existing fandoms or the artist's original characters, have kept the musical genre alive. I love musicals, but what got me to actually buy a very, very expensive theatre ticket and look into the Toronto broadway scene was the influx of videos with people making animatics to Be More Chill, Dear Evan Hansen, and of course, Hamilton. Lovely video as always, Mina.
I'd rather see them write new scores instead of hitching on other people's coattails. Disney is at its best when they create musicals from scratch, but when they adapt other people's musicals, the results are not that great. They're like a pilot who knows everything about an airplane except how to land safely.
Mamma Mia! WILL always be THE TOP summer film. It will just never get old! La La Land managed to capture something that no other film has managed to capture since then, an old musical aesthetic that brings nostalgia and a sense of magic because of the story and casting that makes it incredibly unique. All of these along with the direction, cinematography blend perfectly with the music, it’s just incredible.
What really baffles me about "realistic" musicals like the Les Miserables movie is, i mean, the characters are already bursting out into song at big dramatic moments in their life, there is no amount of framing that will convince people that this is a realistic turn of events. As such, the unwillingness to engage with the central metaphor of the genre marks an admittance of defeat on the only front where the story even stands a chance of feeling emotionally real.
Moulin rouge and phantom of the opera are my favorite movie musicals, the singing fits in because the set is already pretty theatrical and you can still get in to the emotional scenes
I could never find my self comparing Jacob Elordi to Timothy. Ever since his role as Laurie in Little Women he was just perfect to play a chiper character like wonka. I will always love a good entertaining musical though. “Why did she just break into song?” “Why not?! Her voice was amazing and the song is heat.” Love them.
I also think that the parody or one-off jokes in movies like Monty Python & the Holy Grail, Spirited, or Enchanted that paint singing out of nowhere as bad/crazy/unrealistic has painted audience's mindset as to what constitutes a musical despite how arbitrary it is to say when it actually happens in actual musicals. When Judy Garland sings Over the Rainbow, Angela Lansbury solos Beauty & the Beast or Gene Kelly does Singin in the Rain, there is never an urge inside of me to view them as dorks, but instead more competent than I could. Great Video.
I watched mama Mia for the first time this last weekend….i personally don’t think the movie or story could hold up without the ABBA songs. And that’s how I think about most musicals if they didn’t have any songs would it still be a good movie.
Back in the '90's before there was even a stage version, I listened to the ABBA Gold cassette(!) & thought "These songs would work great in a musical!" I manifested "Mamma Mia!"!
the songs in a musical literally carry the plot, they have most of the plot information and movements in them, obviously most musicals wouldn't still be good if you got rid of all the songs. jukebox musicals like mamma mia are a different story altogether re: how they communicate plot and character development
Well Mamma Mia is also unique in that it’s a Jukebox musical, meaning it was written FOR the songs that already existed. So of course the plot points are on the nose lol, of course it relies on the music. But then all musicals suffer when you take away the music. Why? Because the plot is in the music. The emotion, character development, dialogue, all in the music. You can decipher most (80%) of the plot through the soundtrack alone. In a GOOD musical, the music serves a purpose and is tied in well with the plot. Even the lighthearted fun bangers. They are made to further the story. Why would you WANT a musical without music?
The main complaint I hear about musicals is why are they singing. But if you took the songs out, you’d miss key plot elements, foreshadowing in the leitmotifs, emotional depth, meaningful character moments. There are things called “I want” songs that literally introduce the main character and their entire intentions. Without that, you get more lazy boring exposition. It’s an uncreative, unimaginative, unbearably tired thing.
I love musicals because they are expressive passionate heartfelt. The time and dedication that go into learning the songs, choreography, the acting scenes and the costumes. All of this is wrapped with a big ribbon for everyone to laugh cry and feel along with the characters. I love musicals so much because of my nan and I wish I could thank her for introducing them to me
Loved this! Makes me think about Hairspray the movie being such a winning success then becoming Hairspray Live ten years later and the quick stint of TV Musicals that all were commercial flops, but were also all so fantastic.
Oh, also! The best movie musical to come out recently is Tick, Tick, Boom!, which does a fantastic job at blending reality and surreal elements of musicals. Its directed by Lin-Manuel Miranda (who obviously loves and understands musicals) so I think this has something to do with it. My favorite live show is Natasha, Pierre, & The Great Comet of 1812 and I also really like Ride The Cyclone, Hadestown, and Six. (If anyone's interested, there are slime tutorials on youtube). My favorite older movie musical is Cabaret, and favorite older shows are Sunday in the Park with George, Sweeney Todd, and Into the Woods. Also side note but I hate when they take out harmonies/dissonance in movie versions of musicals and have everyone sing the same melody line instead (the movie version of Sweeney Todd does this BADLY, taking out some truly cool moments, and it drives me bonkers).
Cabaret and The Umbrellas of Cherbourg are my favorite musicals. Both have amazing storytelling and the music is fantastic. I surprisingly enjoyed Tick, Tick Boom even though I was trepidatious about it. I think movie musicals can be great; it's all about the execution and also writing great music.
As someone who studies and writes about movie musicals, particularly from the 30s and 40s, this is a great video that covers a lot of the history of early musicals and why they have become less popular. I think the star system or lack there of , as you mentioned, has a big influence on why we don’t see as many musicals today, but is something that could definitely be brought back (see Renee Rapp who has a music career and started out in theatre). Having vehicles that showcase the talents of a specific actor like was the case with Fred and Ginger films, could help with the resurgence of the musical. Loved this!
You know back in the day people used to just sing while feeling emotional my dad would sing while happy & Grandpa would play his guitar & sing songs about his life. Life is a musical, we all have a soundtrack to our lives.
sideways video essays are top tier for me and i share your hopes and prayers for his return!! i'm a little bit stunned that you love him (bc my worlds are colliding!!). great job on this one, i was a little worried it would pay less respect to musical movies but im glad i decided to watch anyway.
I've known a few people who state that they hate musicals except la la land. In my mind, it didn't make any sense because, as I see it as a musical lover, it's one of the most musical movies of the last few years. But what you said about more realistic acting actually is a really good point. Really interesting analysis❤
I really didn't expect Wonka to be a musical, but I wasn't disappointed. My brother on the other hand was because I assured him it wasn't a musical before going to watch it. oops
I wish the casting of actual song-and-dance actors was still the expectation. Like some movies have gotten lucky with casting actors that aren’t trained singers - Amanda Seyfried has a voice like a bell that I could listen to all day and Renee Zellweger was actually very charming as Roxie Hart - but there is a big difference between “an actor that can hold a tune” and someone who has trained in music their whole life. And other than Jennifer Hudson hiring pop singers hasn’t produced anything better. As much as her sudden omnipresence rubs me the wrong way, Ariana DeBose is a trained musical theater professional and actually brought that expertise to West Side Story in a way few others in that main cast did.
drop your favorite musical 🎶! my favorite musical movie is the sound of music, my favorite stage musical is les miserables 🥲
hadestown💗💗
Definitely Heathers! (Stage musical only)
But It’s also the only one I’ve seen.. lol
Rocky Horror
rocky horror is so real u have all my love@@rubyskies2119
Into the woods, Mary Poppins, and the Wizard of oz, and singing in the rain
Hollywood has a "refusal to cast anyone but a-list celebrities" problem
Especially in animated films
What's even weirder is when they cast B-list actors who STILL can't sing. At that point they might as well just cast a bunch of "unknowns" who can sing their faces off, at least it would create a satisfying end product.
@@kittykittybangbang9367yeah honestly there are so many voice actors who could have been way better than a lot of screen actors who were cast in animated movies.
@@WishGenderEspecially the new Garfield movie that's coming out
I don’t mind when they cast A-list celebrities as long as they are right for the role. However, more often than not that that isn’t the case. One exception I can think of in recent years was Andrew Garfield in Tick Tick Boom. He was amazing in that.
I've never walked into a musical and thought "I hope this is realistic!"
I've never walked into any movie (except for biopics) and said "i hope this is realistic
I haven’t watched it yet but Patrick H. Willems made a video on why we want movies to be realistic
@@klaraf.b.9820 And you probably didn't expect realism from Elvis's freneticism or Oppenheimer's quick time jumps, either! All movies are heavily stylized.
I did, I really love realism, I don’t see how is this a bad thing to like and want in a play
@@eusounadja5738 Okay but the soliloquies of a Shakespeare play are hardly realistic
you could be Willy Wonka but timothee could NOT run this channel
WHY IS THIS THE FUNNIEST COMMENT EVER TYPED LMFAAAIDJSHSSBEBEJD OH MY GOD 11/10
i'd like so see him try. AND FAIL
Epic comment. He is so overrated. If you listened to him clearly, he is not as wise as young people think he is. Rather, he is just a sad confused boy who sometimes reads
And Timothee could never replace Gene Wilder!!!
@@kzvegansuperstar I dont think the film was trying to replace him.Its just a prequel lol
"If Hollywood hates musicals so much, why do they keep making them?" I think it's because everyone on the creative side of the house *desperately* loves musicals. Think of how many TV shows will have a musical episode for no reason. Actors love musicals. Writers love musicals. Audiences love musicals. Executives and producers hate musicals because all of the moving parts makes them risky investments and they hate risk.
I mean yes, but there's more to that. It's also that this same execs and producers have NO idea how storytelling through music works. Heck, even most people who are on the "creative team" of a musical film (I use creative loosely here) have no idea how it's supposed to work. Most directors of musical films have no idea how it supposed to work so in turn, they have no idea how to handle directing songs and music when it's on film...So they just ignore the fact that's it's a song and let it sit there because they know it has to be there, rather than work though how it's supposed to function in the story. It's a mesh of two mediums that very few people know how to handle. I get it. Stage and screen are different mediums that require different storytelling techniques, and they absolutely CAN mesh, but it requires people behind the scenes who know how to do that.
Hollywood doesn’t hate musicals in fact they love them, however test audiences HATE them and as such they hide the fact they’re musicals until people go in. Musicals can be some of the best selling movies when they hit like Mamma Mia, Phantom, Les Mis, Greatest Showman, etc. say what you will about the quality of some of those but they end up being massively popular if they work. As such if you can get people tricked into it and they like it it’ll be super successful, however trying to get large audiences into a musical is a lot harder
@@broderickfoster2107 Test audiences disliked the song "Part of your world" from the original Little Mermaid so much it was almost cut from the movie. Test audiences are not good indicators of a movie's success bc they don't represent how people actually interact with their entertainment. Genre conventions and tropes are important factors people consider before they choose whether or not a story is for them. No one wants to pay for a serious drama and be surprised by a musical anymore than you would be happy to pay for a comedy and instead get a horror-thriller. Musicals require a higher level of suspended disbelief than non-musicals so audiences deserve enough notice to properly appreciate and absorb the material.
@@kelly9236 I don’t disagree I’m just saying it’s a large reason of why things aren’t marketed as musicals. Test audiences despise them and as such they don’t advertise that they are musicals. However Hollywood itself loves making them due to their memorability and sales so it’s this weird paradox
It's never been about realism. A Star is Born is realistic. Cabaret is realistic. Moulin Rouge and Chicago are fantastical. All of these work to greater or lesser extent. It's not strictly about the property, either. Dear Evan Hansen remains an extremely successful show with a phenomenal pop score by hitmakers Pasek and Paul. It was a horrible movie adaptation because (among other things) the casting was a disaster. Likewise, the film version of Jesus Christ Superstar was a dull, psychedelic mess. Anything can be adapted poorly... movies, like musicals, have lots of moving parts, failures in any of which can bring the whole thing crashing down. Few executives have the chops to consistently diagnose and fix or avoid problems in films writ large, let alone by genre, and even sensitive, consistently successful artists like Steven Spielberg may struggle to understand how to pull off a musical (as impactful were his "Cool" number and Anita rape sequences, his structural placement and staging of the Krupke number failed to lend West Side Story's Jets any credibility or sympathy).
Bottom line, musicals are among the hardest forms to pull off, and aside from intimate, diagetic-driven works like Once, as expensive to produce as your average blockbuster. Not only are songs and dance added to the burden of storytelling, dialogue, action, and performance, but these must be credibly integrated with transitions for pacing and mood. Technically, syncing sound adds another layer of challenge. Most movies (especially action movies) rely heavily on music and movement already; a nicely handpicked needle-drop soundtrack lend further panache to a Pulp Fiction, Baby Driver, or Guardians of the Galaxy film. For these reasons, a well-crafted musical ought to be an easy sell, as the continued popularity of TikTok shorts and music videos demonstrates the effectiveness and marketability of the genre. The challenge remains to string these numbers together into a holistic, emotionally-satisfying piece of storytelling. It's a degree of difficulty added to an already high bar to clear, but there's no denying the potential. The "filmed musicals are unrealistic" trope is as barren as the "animation is for kids" one. Regardless of genre, what audiences seem to want most consistently is entertainment in the form of characters and situations they can relate to or admire. Musicals can deliver that as well as and often better than, any other narrative form.
the "nobody sings out of nowhere" thing bugs me for multiple reasons, but one is specifically the phrasing of "out of nowhere". i believe there's a part of that same video of howard ashman where he explains that in musicals, a character starts to sing because their emotions are too strong for words to be enough, and they start to dance when the song isn't enough. it's never been "singing out of nowhere", it's "singing because you feel so much that the only way you can express it is through song."
That's a good explanation for why characters "sing out of nowhere", but I also feel like it shouldn't have to be explained. Some people have apparently lost the ability to set reality aside while watching a movie. Like these people are watching a literal musical but find it unrealistic when the characters randomly break into song. What exactly were they expecting to happen in a musical? The entire premise of that genre is characters singing out of nowhere, so I'm not sure why some people are disappointed when that happens.
ITS SO FUCKING STUPID LIKE. THEY'RE TYPICALLY NOT SINGING IN UNIVERSE. ITS A REPRESENTATION OF HOW THE CHARACTER FEELS
i feel like this is the kind of person to go "wElL mAyBe tHe cUrTaIns ArE juSt blUe"
“No one sings out of nowhere” if it was socially acceptable, I would 100%
@@thecolorjune I mean, I do it while doing chores around the house. And under the shower. Sometimes singing complete nonsense about what's going on in my mind right now. Do... other people just not do that, I wonder? 🥲
It’s such a depressing argument for the state of media literacy
People can suspend disbelief on people flying, monsters, aliens, spaceships, magic, whatever...but not people bursting out into songs????
Tends to make people insecure
not at all the same
@@whereisdonnie It literally is. Having a problem with musicals because people don't sing their thoughts in real life is a sign of low empathy, low creativity, low emotional intelligence, and all-around unlikability.
Excellwnt point!!!
Yes! A LOT of things that people accept in movie is very unreal. All of the romcoms are very weird, hardly any of the action movies make sence and a laugh track is very freaky in real life
While I'm not a theater kid; respect for those who are passionate to pursue their dreams. Broadway can be brutal. Good luck, theater kids!
Thanks, the entertainment industry can be extremely cutthroat. I have a few friends who are theatre majors, and their dedication to their craft is truly inspiring.
0/10 semi colon use but i fw u for trying
i'm a VA, shoutout to the theatre kids 🫡
Very sweet comment! I will forgive the 'major sin' (jk) of using the phrase theater people have a superstition against - which is why we say 'Break a Leg'!
I knew I wasn't talented enough for Broadway, I am Community Theater material, and that's ok! I think many other self-described Theater Kids have never seriously pursued professional stage acting- let alone Broadway. Many of the most hardcore theater kids I have known didn't act at all, there is crew, costumes, makeup & hair, set design & construction and of course director and stage manager.
TLDR: there is more to being a theater kid than acting, & some of us do it (or used to do it) bc we loved the experience and community.
It's only cutthroat for those that don't have connections or fit the typical "look." There's a reason why many tv/film actors have relatives in journalism, pop music or in tv/film production, if not having some ties to a feeder drama program/school.@@trinaq
I remember hearing Ian McKellen hated filming for the Hobbit movies because he was a classically trained Shakespearean actor used to acting on a stage with a real set now dumped in the middle of a green screen room acting on his own most of the time cause the Gandalf scenes usually were him by himself. He found it incredibly isolating compared to the original Lord of the Rings trilogy where he usually had a scene partner at least and there was a TON of practical effects.
Lord of the Rings also already used plenty of Greenscreen. McKellen did break down on the Hobbiton Kitchen Set because he was the only one there, no other actors on set to interact with, but the greenscreen and special effect were not thw reason. It's in the Bonus Features of "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" /info
No media genre in the world gives me the amount of joy that musicals do and it makes me so sad how many people don’t like them.
To enjoy it maximally requires comprehension and wit that is becoming less and less common.
Same! I love musicals ❤
I hate Disney for cancelling Danny Elfman’s other musical projects.
@@pysq8that's bullshit, I don't always love musicals when there's too much musical numbers or when the singing style is too dramatic and it feels boring FOR ME. But I know there's many who love it, cause people have different preferences and that's fine.
I’m a boy and boys I’ve met hate Disney for “singing a song every five minutes”
Lala land is probably the best example of musicals still being "in style". People don't like bad musicals, but original musicals with good story, good acting and great original music, will always be hits.
As a theater kid sorounded by people that actually hate them, I feel like we live among a general sense of irony - everything nowadays seems to be fueled with cynicism and a good musical is a type of genre that assumes bold, big, unashamed emotions. You must be willing to feel these feelings if you want to thoroughly enjoy a musical.
And that's why bitter incels are the anti audience of these films in addition to housing powerful women to belt about emotions. Of course women and lgbt people are gonna be the backbone of the genre
love this take
I don't get living ironically or cynically. I'm a revolutionary, I hate our current society and view most things with suspicion. That doesn't make me any less genuine. Sincerity is revolutionary when no one has any principles left. Just because the world now sucks doesn't mean a better world isn't possible. Musicals are for people with still active imaginations, a will for the silly, and hope for the future.
I hate cynicism and sarcasm and also hate (movie) musicals so idk about that. Maybe it's bescause musical feelings are so big and bold that they are wildly unnatural. Less is honestly more when it comes to making me feel things.
That being said, one expection was a local production of Sweeny Todd. That was really nice but I have not watched another one before or after.
I agree! I actually loved the 2021 West Side Story and watched it twice in cinema. The second time some teenagers behind me talked and ran around the entire time and I just felt sorry for them for not being able to take in the emotions and feel them in their big and pure way, which is yes, a little silly, but it's human!
I think realism has gone a little TOO far in movies these days. To the point where people try and mumble in a realistic way and the acting suffers because of it
Yes and “How will we know they’re having sex if we don’t see them get penetrated for 7 1/2 awkward minutes?” Like please, spare me.
Funny how we need to see women fully naked but seldom if ever see men’s bits…almost like films are made for entertainment still despite claims of realism annnnd forever cater to the same white male audience. But we need inaudible mumbling. For authenticity 🤌
You mean the sound mixing style that people like Christopher Nolan use in their movies? It’s the ethic of not overdubbing. It’s not the actors trying to sound realistic. …people should bring this back, especially in music.
I agree but more because I think we have neglected in this camp and absurdism and movies that become cult classics. In general neglecting the weird for the safe has made cinema suffer significantly.
camp is dead
@@Man-ej6uv maybe among heterosexuals
i wish they’d just let musicals be musicals and make people accept that musicals are a different form and should have different expectations for them rather than trying to make them more realistic. cause then people who know and like musicals are put off by bad vocals and dance etc. so no one is happy.
that's why I'm so confident about the Mean Girls movie musical, because the musical numbers seem to be like a daydream sequence and I love it when movie musicals do that.
@@michelcomentai hate that they’ve modernized all the original Broadway songs from Meangirls but it will probably work for all the musical haters
yeah that’s a big reason why i didn’t like the movie la la land. i’m a fan of musicals and the singing/dancing was too bad for me
High School Musical is a big part of the musical resurgence. I remember when it premiered my mom said it was our generations ‘Grease’ and I never really forgot that. It was so popular with the young generation that not only did Hollywood start making musicals again, but most TV shows were music based. Hannah Montana, Victorious, Ant Farm, Austin & Alley, Mall of American, etc.
omg my mum literally said the same thing, but its true musicals are great they just need to be done right and we have the proof
I agree. HSM is one of the few musical movies that people who hate musicals can actually enjoy. Because everything about it was good, the plot, the dialogue, the set design. The issue with so many musicals is that the use song to tell the story rather than creating a relationship between songs and the plot, allowing not only the songs to tell the story but the story to be apart of the songs.
Chicago is one of my favorite movie musicals and it works so well because it balances itself between purely film and purely musical theatre moments. They purposefully create this idea that these actors are really on stage - almost like a really high-quality live broadway recording - with film snippets
If you like Chicago, watch the Caberet movie. It was directed by Bob Fosse who originally choreographed the Chicago musical. The Chicago movie is very inspired by him.
Why I also loved Rocketman over Bohemian Rhapsody as a musical biopic! Rocketman had just my taste of fantasy woven into the musical numbers. I think the recent In The Heights and Matilda movies did this soooo beautifully as well.
Agreed! I think Chicago is one of the best adaptations as well. They do a good job of letting the audience know that there’s the “real” character and then the character that’s day dreaming a musical number for dramatics it’s fun and not random.
I love this, and actually think tick tick boom did a very similar thing. A lot of the musical numbers happen in a 'stage' setting. 30/90 is happening literally on a stage, come to your senses is sung to an audience in the movie. There's a balance of you're watching someone telling this story to an audience in the movie and you're watching someone telling YOU this story.
@@kiaramirenI was thinking of Chicago too. The old way of filming a flat scene happening on stage would take me out of the story. (Like the Nutcracker). But Chicago does it in a fluid way with modern film making. It helps that the characters are performers in more ways than one. I loved Cellophane Man. As an introvert l appreciate the concept of songs revealing one's subconscious and desires.
i hate how we are in this realistic movie/tv era! not everything needs to be hyper realistic and grey and gritty! i get the sense that this is a reaction to the whimsical and unrealistic movies/tv shows in the past but we've definitely swung too far that now we're on the complete opposite side of the spectrum 😕
Every third movie released these days is a superhero film and you're saying we're in the era of hyper-realism only?
@ironwolf56 I think she means that even tho there are many superhero movies nowadays, everything is still gritty and real life around it. Maybe that's what she meant.
@@ironwolf56the super hero movies have changed as well
I agree, especially when it comes to adaptations of existing shows/media, like the winx club adaptations. sometimes i just want a silly, fun, and non-literal watch
For real, I would love if more movies felt like they could have sincere/heartfelt moments without immediately cutting in w self-aware ironic jokes
Having grown up watching Bollywood movies, there are very few Hollywood musicals that can impress me. The Indian cinema dance numbers have undoubtedly set my standards very very high.
I recently watched the movie Awara and I completely agree. Revolutionary set design and filming techniques!
The comment I was looking for! As she was talking I was wondering if she would bring up Bollywood...the audiences have hugely different preferences! Maybe it's bc Bollywood musicals are so much more bright, beautiful, & fantastical that it helps us escape from "reality" faster. Maybe American musicals trying to be so "real" is going in the wrong direction. It also seems Indian art as a whole is more romantic and poetic culturally going back to ancient times, maybe this creates a better appreciation for the musical interpretation?
You gotta watch old black and white Hollywood musicals
Recently started watching Indian films- from Hindi language films to Telugu, Tamil, Kannada language… and yeah Hollywood musicals don’t hit the same.
@@melonyrobinson9944 naaaaah 💀💀
I think part of the musical problem is that for people who genuinely love musicals, we don't want to go see musicals because the roles are given to big stars over people who are actually capable of singing and dancing at a high level. Emma Watson as Belle - a literal soprano - comes to mind, and Emma Stone in La LA Land comes to mind.
This is why I was never interested to see Lala Land, even though I love musicals
@@UOweMeI would still recommend La La Land ngl 😅
I will ALWAYS have beef with the live action Beauty and the Beast. Emma was the absolute wrong choice for Belle for the reasons explained in the video. Emma just grounded the movie in the wrong way cus 1) her singing was subpar and 2) her acting wasn't alive enough for a damn musical.
@@blumelodiezfinally someone gets it
I hated LaLa land for that reason (not that the Spotify was bad) but if you’ve seen a movie musical worth it’s salt it was dull to watch to mid singers muddle through musical numbers and dancing.
One thing I love about Steven Spielberg’s production of West Side Story: it’s not embarrassed. Films like 2012’s Les Miserables often feel like they’re embarrassed to be musicals, but Spielberg’s film, while it doesn’t as fully embrace the musical format and theatricality as its predecessor (a personal favourite of mine), it still feels totally sincere in being a musical (with some pretty impressive choreography in my opinion). I honestly wish he’d direct more of them.
Spielberg did a wonderful job with West Side Story. I wish it had been a bigger success because of how good it was.
EMBARRASSED. The perfect term for the problem, in my opinion. Musical theatre is embarrassing. You have to lean in.
The emphasis on community is real because I JUST learned that in the heights and tick tick boom were "underperformers". They are a couple of my favorite musicals and I thought that both of these movies were really great. Aside from my opinion, I thought they were generally popular because everyone in my circles raved about them.
Tick Tick Boom is a damn masterpiece that wasn't expecting at all to be as good as it was. I truly had no idea how Lin was gonna translate this quirky Larson piece onto screen, but GODDAMMIT it worked somehow! And it makes me want Lin to direct more stuff, he clearly knows how to translate stage musicals to the screen.
I thought In the Heights was great!
I think some of it comes down to Marketing and movies now having way to many venues for release. How many “underperformers” had theatrical releases? I know people are going to the movies less, but if I’m paying a subscription fee, I’d rather go to the theater than pay for each service to see all these movies. I’m sure Tim Tick Boom is great, but I don’t have the service and saw next to no marketing for it. A lot of movies across the board are getting little marketing or the marketing itself is poor.
me learning this from this UA-cam comment 💀
Same ❤ tick tick boom was my favorite movie the year it came out. Had no idea it underperformed
To everyone who loved the "Just Ken" song in Barbie: You will love Bollywood, trust me.
So true, just so deeply true
I've not gotten into Bollywood movies yet. Any recommendations?
@@rahbeeuh if you want a comedy, try 3 idiots; if you like romance, try Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge (DDLJ), & if you like epics, try Baahubali & RRR (these 2 are not Bollywood, they are Tollywood but they are still incredible)
@@rahbeeuh anything starring Shah Rukh Khan
@@rahbeeuh 3 idiots, DDLJ, highway, rockstar, wake up Sid, Jodha Akbar are some good ones.
I am also a former theater kid. I don't get why Wonka and the Mean Girls Musical movie weren't marketed with the songs. Especially cuz without the song, it feels like a remake of the original.
I feel like people hate remakes more than musicals
Idk I feel like I always figured Wonka would be a musical. I enjoyed it, even the original songs, tho I dare say “Pure Imagination” was the one that stayed in my head for a while.
@amoniqueocampo did you like it?
I find it ironic that Barbie which wasn’t marketed as a musical, released the clip of I’m just Ken and people went crazy, but they balk at the idea of them showing a song in the mean girls or wonka trailer…
I think it depends where you are because the mean girls musical always markets it with the song if you’re watching a cinemark or amc movie
I also thought they were remakes, and I wouldn't want to watch Mean Girls in that case, because with more teenager/pop kinda movies the remakes usually just try to make the same thing but make it trendy or incorporate current memes and that usually comes out kinda cringey as trends and memes move faster than a movie production time, so the trends/memes on the movie are already outdated by the time it comes out. In the end it's just an iconic thing turned cringe
With it being an adaptation into a musical it is way more promising and has something new to the story
Musical theater is by far the strongest storytelling device, in my opinion. Seeing how lifeless Disney songs became after Howard Ashman passed away says enough.
Edit: “What about-“ “You didn’t mention-“ “WHAT ABOUT ENCAN-“ can you people shut the heII up already 😭
Danny Elfman is still alive and they haven’t used him for a musical since Nightmare Before Christmas (or Corpse Bride if you count other studios) and they even cancelled the two other musicals he wrote the entire scripts for.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 I love Danny Elfman so much! He just understands the nuance of lyrical storytelling so well, especially when it comes to love.
Imagine they used him for WISH and not Julia 😭 Hell he probably could’ve helped save the plot and bad writing too with the music alone
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 Danny Elfman mostly works for Tim burton rather than Disney. He he has done music for Tim burton since Batman
@@SuperJust4girls He signed a contract with Disney to score a certain number of movies with them in exchange for letting him write some of his own musicals that were going to be directed by somebody else (he also wrote a script for a non musical movie that he wanted to direct himself). They canned his movies anyway. He only got so far as to record the demos.
@@princessnicki63 I know! I like the idea for Wish so it’s a real shame they made it crappy! Who is this Julia anyway? Is she a false MeTooing homewrecker like Nomi Abadi? She’s trying to defame Elfman but I’ve contacted her ex manager on Instagram and he confirms that she’s a liar with narcissistic and or borderline personality disorder and her music sounds like AI too.
100% agree about wanting Sideways back on UA-cam!
Sideways' video essays are among the best things I have ever seen on this platform. Sideways has taught me so much about how and why music (in movies) functions and I am just so genuinly thankful for that. I really hope that legend returns someday.
I think my distaste for MOVIE musicals is because lately, casting directors pick actors that aren’t good enough singers for the roles they’re in. I like stage musicals a lot because not only are the performers so awesome, but I think they capture the story and the emotion of the music in a way that movies sometimes fail to do.
This is nothing new. Julie Andrews was famously passed over for Audrey Hepburn to star in My Fair Lady. Hopefully now that “star power” in films is hardly a thing anymore, this doesn’t happen as often.
@@mhawang8204 which is kind of intresting as Audrey was dubbed for singing which is another aspect for musicals that you see less and less where you would see it in the 90s and you would have those awkward dubbing where the voices sound so different to each other, most of the disney movies at the time had pretty good dubs when it came to the singing that you wouldn't feel like "oh this character is voiced by someone else now" but in the here and now dubbing is thrown out the window along with choosing people who are talented at singing so you get those weak voice perfomances
Cough cough la la land
My thinking is thus: If a stage actor can have the charisma and talent to dance, act and sing and interact with props on what's basically half a sound stage for 8 shows a night live to an audience of the hundreds to low thousands, they're sure as hell good enough to hold the attention of a camera.
@@utubrGaming I completely agree!
honest, its so sad that the mean girls musical has such wasted advertisement. As a theater kid I had no idea it was the musical but when I found out I was so much more invested.
no exactly why is it only being advertised that way when i go see a movie like 😭..
The SOLE reason I did was because you can hear (if memory serves me right) the Apex Predator tune toward the end of the trailer for a split second, but during a title screen and not long enough for anyone to realise that it’s a song from the musical.
It's insane what choices are being made nowadays. If Wish was marketed as a fairy god mother origin story people would have ate it up lol
@@nailinthefashion it was??? see i had no idea..
Yeah I'm not a big fan of "tricking" audience members who have aversions to musicals to seeing the movie because as you pointed out its making your actual audience base not want to see it because they're unaware the film is for them. Not to mention by not advertising it as the musical version it's only counting on the nostalgia market which isn't sustainable. In fact, many people are tired of reboots and remakes. At least advertise that this film will be different than the original with subtle call backs to what made it popular to begin with.
As a theater kid I would much rather watch a pro shot of the actual stage show rather than a Hollywood movie version of a musical. Movie adaptations of popular musicals are almost always disappointing.
They are disappointed because movie directors insists on casting actors who can't sing
Yes!! - I hoped that Hamilton would usher in a new phase of recorded musicals but I don't think that has happened. My biggest pet peeve is when they take out songs from the original version, just to replace it with an out-of-place pop song that they can see on the radio, even though it does not fit in the musical.
@@TabbyeLynnenot enough movie musicals are being made so we can have a-list stars with genuine musical talent.
correction: CONTEMPORARY movie adaptations of popular musicals are almost always disappointing. but there are many great older movie adaptations of musicals, mostly from the 60s and 70s!!
Yes does anyone know where I can watch a filmed stage version of cats?
I went to see Wonka the day it came out with my mates. As soon as Timothee started singing our suspension of disbelief was just completely shattered because we went into the movie expecting to see a non-singing movie. I have nothing against muscials, I'm a theatre kid myself, but it just felt really jarring compared to my expectations of the film.
SAME! Theatre kids here too and I looked at my friend like wait, why is he singing?! This is a musical? Why? LOL
It’s a marketing strategy. When movie musical is marketed with musical in it, the gross tend to go down
@@celeri6497 I’m sorry, neither of the previous Willy Wonka movies were musicals??? What about ‘come with me, and we’ll be, in a world of pure imagination’ or ‘Oompa, loompa, duptity dee’? According to wikipedia, the first movie has a total of 14 different songs, 36 minutes and 28 seconds of the movie’s 100 minute run time?
@@deinogreenstreet8631 I think it is because nothing in the trailer makes you think there will be songs in it. Also the songs are mostly done by the oompa loompas and in the trailers, there don't seem to be a tone of them.
So yeah I haven't seen the movie, but I'm surprised to learn it is a musical cause watching the trailer, I just expect something magical, not a musical.
bc ur miserable...
Personally, the main is issue is the singing technique. When Rachel Zegler sings in West side Story or in hunger Games, I could feel that she knew what she was doing and the execution is perfect. She is also musical trained. For Timothee chalamet in Wonka, it felt that he learned how to sing musicals recently or didn't. With my singing coach we mostly do contemporary singing but when we do musicals, the technique is different. It focuses on the storytelling within the song plus vocal style. For example, Show Boat (1951) is lyrical singing whereas Chicago (1975) is jazz singing and Everybody's Talking About Jamie (2017) is pop singing. Conclusion, the singing technique used is the main issue in most of those films and hiring someone that knows this technique or has more experience
The problem with pop musicals is that they embrace everything some of us, myself included, turned to musical theatre to get away from.
"because people don't just burst into song" said by people who never hung out with theater kids. My roommate in college dated one girl who would literally burst into a room singing
Their friend groups are the most toxic, cynical, insecure places around and they think we're all like that. I mean, can't we all just belt Paramore in peace?
😂😂😂 That's not normal behaviour 😭
You are not gonna start singing like that don't lie
@@Jsarmy87124 my dad would walk around the house singing while strumming his guitar
@JoaoPessoa86 same music was always active in my family growing up I moved out and now everything just feels dull without music and few people understand
My sister literally bought me a mug that said, "People who say no one bursts into song in real life have clearly never been to my house." Tis the truth.
Growing up with Bollywood, it's really interesting to see how much people seem to hate musical movies when a movie not being a musical is an extremely rare occurrence here
So fair! I adore Bollywood films, my French teacher would show us some of her favourites toward the end of the school semestre and it was a highlight, it was amazing.
We can't possibly compare the Broadway Musicals to what Bollywood churns out in dull unoriginality. Sorry, I have spent 7 years in India and seen many, and not one comes anywhere close to being a 'classic' or even Good by any International standards.
@@eldiran2 Plus, Bollywood, and Broadway Musicals are so different like the songs in Broadway musicals are very integrated into the story down to the dialogue. Someone will be taking in the next line and then burst out singing in another. Bollywood doesn't exactly have that as we see from all the song and dance numbers with background dancers and exotic settings randomly showing up in a serious plot-line about a serious topic (l-lol).
Also, people on Broadway can actually sing and sing well. I highly doubt Bollywood actors can do that because most of the time, they lip-sync to actual singers lol.
@@ClappingandCheering This is true. And, yes, Bollywood songs are all lip-synced, usually to 'playback singers'. Hollywood musical numbers were, and mostly still are, also done to pre-recorded tracks, and in prior days the actors often did NOT sing their own songs. Streisand insisted she do the finale in 'Funny Girl" 1968 live to get the emotions right, and also all the songs in her version of 'Star Is Born" 1976. Then came 'Les Miserables" 2012, where ALL the songs were sung live (and obviously so--some off-key notes here and there!). Sadly, in most Bollywood movies, the actots make minimum effort to even imiate singing the songs, which I find shocking when you watch 'Over The Rainbow" in 'The Wizard of Oz' which is expertly lip-syned way back in 1939!!
@@eldiran2I'm sorry to say, but I haven't seen one musical from Hollywood that could come even remotely close to Bollywood. And as for actors lip syncing to songs, it's actually a really great shortcut idea to have great musical performance in every movie, and one of the reasons why Bollywood musical works, coz how many People can you find who got looks, acting, talent, plus singing talent, plus dancing talent. Surely not many, And Bollywood is only a film industry for India, while Hollywood is international with actors from all over North America, Europe and South America. Even with India having a billion population, you can't really find much actors who excel at singing, dancing , acting and are good looking to boot, all at the same time. So the lip syncing technique works here, coz u get really legendary singers , especially the ones trained in classical music like Hindustani classical and Carnatic. Plenty of Bollywood singers are like that, giving their voices for the films. You should definitely check out Sanjay Leela Bhansali, he is the best director in Bollywood when it comes to Musicals. No Hollywood musicals, come close to his Bollywood musicals, not even close. Sorry pal.
Oh, and did u know, recently a song from the film RRR (which is a Tollywood film, not Bollywood) but still an Indian film nevertheless. Won an Oscar for the best original song and musical, lol.
Honestly you really sound really ignorant in ur assessment of Bollywood, the actors do not do proper lip syncing and do not potray emotions, lol 😂😂😂. Maybe the word emotion means different to Europeans than it does to Asians
It's worth noting that recently Disney, which literally cranks out the most modern musical films, even tried to step into more "pop" tones with Wish recently. Ironically, everyone got mad, asking for the more traditional broadway soundtrack, so maybe there's an argument to be made to studios that the interest is there for a traditional musical sound.
I need to be well paid to watch anything Disney 😊 but I love most classic grown-up musicals
True, but it's still mostly in animation. People are a lot more willing to accept a musical number in a world that is already highly stylized. This is also why Bollywood works: the entire world is highly stylized. It's the same reason you don't hate the magic in a well done fantasy show: the world is stylized enough that the magic makes sense within it. In fact, in the best musicals, the songs really *are* a magic system: time moves differently during the song, allowing for people to accomplish impossible or at least improbable tasks. Melodies push and pull on one another, making characters do things. The songs can reference each other, leading to character development.
it was so weird of them to make Wish soundtrack like that when their most recent musical, Encanto, was so sucessful bc you know an actual broadway composer made the songs. We Don't Talk About Bruno, the most sucessful song of the movie, is literally the most Modern Broadway song ever. Have you seen the voice l ayering they did by the end of the song and the composition of the scenes in the movie? Its just so theatric. Lin Manuel Miranda is kinda corny but his musicals never miss
@@mayruuh Trolls which only leans on regurgitating pop songs is also super popular with kids. I think that's what Disney was thinking when they decided a pop soundtrack might be successful.
@@nbucwa6621 trolls movies always have a few original songs too, though
So glad that you mentioned La La Land. It is one of my favourite movies and I love that while it pays homage to past musicals, this movie also has it's own set of songs and the score being instantly recognizable today
Mamma Mia getting the respect it deserves
Musicals as a format can be so well used and meaningful, I love the concept. Yet there are so many with so much lost potential.
Musicals deserve better!
Crazy ex girlfriend is the prime example of storytelling through song. There's so much we can experience with a choreography and a song that caters to a specific genre; it's like translating feelings into a format that may be easier to understand.
@@nicoleranieri8033Yessss
@@nicoleranieri8033 I love Crazy Ex-GF. The ending actually explains the musical format in a way that makes sense for the story and was also really sweet 😭 (not that I want this for every on screen musical but it really worked for this show). Now, Rachel Bloom is working on the score for a musical version of The Nanny which I am psyched for!
@@PsychedelicSquirrel that's so cool, I didn't know that! and yep, totally. When they explain that it was basically her way of processing things she wouldn't have known how to handle, and that translating it into song and dance made her navigate the world better, and that only a few people have access to it it (she shows it to Paula and probably mentions it to Dr Akopian), I was once more in awe of the wittiness of of this show. So brilliant. It reminds me a bit of Fleabag, when the priest notices that she has a bridge with another world (us) - Rebecca is explaining to us how she really sees (and very often distorts) situations and we see them through a less objective lens - after all, she's the crazy ex girlfriend and we must understand her journey. I fucking love this show lol
Nightmare Before Christmas wasn’t even appreciated by Disney when it first came out as it wasn’t the type of musical they were used to. Didn’t become popular until many years later when Disney realized that it was a cult favorite at Hot Topic or whatever.
26:04 this is exactly why enchanted (2007) worked. it was live action (even though some bits are animated, most is liveaction) but in a way that is ‘ridiculous’ and fantasious because of the nature of the film, giselle being from the enchanted animated land where anything is possible and her, along with the other characters from that land, kinda bring the magic to our real world, thus making it more plausible that magic, enchantments and breaking into song be more acceptable and make more sense to the audience (still is a little strange in that one scene, ‘how does she know’ buttttt you get my point, they make sense of it with the created reality within our reality if that makes sense)
I agree, musicals have to either be openly absurdist/fantastical or super realistic with a plot that revolves around singers/performers. Anything in between and you get an uncanny valley.
frankly, i disagree. it's disingenuous to ask for musicals to be "realistic", when it's entire premise is literally about people breaking into song. we don't hold other mediums and genres to that same regard. are there as many complaints of aliens in scifi, or wizards in fantasy? the reason why enchanted works is that it's a musical, and the production of it treated it as one.
if you think that musicals fall into uncanny valleys, or have a hard time suspending disbelief, i strongly urge you to watch more live theatre, not even musicals! i strongly think that people who don't "get" musicals just aren't used to it--specifically fiction in a physical space. mina sort of touches on it in 28:06 and 32:30.
@@peirogi8871 I agree with your take! and with that mina touched it later on, and I do watch live theatre pretty often too, it’s just that for me, not everything has to be a musical.
it works with some pieces of work and with others it doesn’t, maybe because of the theme/story or just the execution wasnt right
but yeah musicals don’t have to be realistic obvs, for me it just has to be unrealistically realistic, if that makes sense
Young children often sing spontaneously. I'm not sure why we so often lose this trait as adults (although there are no real-life spontaneous choreographed dance numbers, unfortunately lol).
Sure, but have you never seen a flash mob and seen people who had nothing to do with it start joining in and following along?
@@magimerlyn9596 That's true, and never have I seen one in person - that would be cool, though!
I still do it but I live alone 😅
I burst out into song all the time as a kid 😭 I think it was the Disney movies from the 90s, they all were musicals!
now I'm a regular at karoake so I still get to sing 🥲
Because they start caring too much about what other people think as they grow up
When the Sweeney Todd movie by Tim BUrton came out in 2007 it also wasn't marketed as a musical film. I remember the trailer beeing free from any sung words and I was really surprised in the theatre when it turned out to be a musical. People even left the theatre because they were execting a horror movie. It was really something...
I remember when I took my cousin to see Into The Woods and we were asked when we bought the tickets whether we were aware it was a musical. We were like 'yeah, of course we know that, there's singing in the trailer?' and apparently the cinema had had multiple people demanding their money back because they hadn't know so the manager had begun making the employees double check before selling any more tickets.
I was mad at the Sweeney Todd musical because of how much they butchered the damn musical.
Same with Into The Woods.
CBS did the same thing when Bette Midler did *Gypsy* on TV.
@@MK-gv1wd I definitely feel like that’s an element that nobody talks about. That studios are so desperate to get non-musical fans through the door that they butcher the original musical and end up not even satisfying the musical’s actual fans. Like I understand not every song is going to make it because of time constraints or not working in the film medium, but some movie musicals really do take the mick.
I think the immense success of pitch perfect can be attributed to this idea of more palatable, realistic ways of utilising the musical format in live action film, grounding it in reality which seemingly makes movie-goers much more inclined to watch what is essentially a ‘musical.’ An amazing video essay as always mina
Honestly I miss the old Hollywood musicals. Part of the thing I love is how divorced from reality they are. It makes them so fun! It’s a similar reason to why I love David Lynch films. There’s this dream like quality that other movies just don’t have.
Movie musicals need to bring back the dream ballet.
My favorite musical is Into the Woods and my favorite movie musical is Singin in the Rain
SINGIN IN THE RAIN is so iconic and that’s my fave part about it, it feels so out of this world it’s enchanting
I think actors worked harder back then. They were larger than life-you remember them.
Though of course some went overboard…like Gene Kelly working Debbie Renolds until her feet were bleeding. Yikes.
Why do people (apparently) want everything to be realistic anyway? And, of course, they don't or Marvel and _Fast & the Furious_ movies wouldn't have been big not that long ago. The idea that we need to have people who can't sing doing the singing in musicals for people to be open to hearing them sing is rather frustrating.
I'm a huge musical theatre nerd and in my old age of my 30s (lmao) I'm still in community musical theatre AND I just wishhhhh there was a david lynch musical I think of the musical numbers from his movies and how captivating and creepy they are and ughhhh the potential for an unsettling musical would be amazing
David Lynch should do a musical as payback for the *Dune* remakes.
I've always thought that it was odd to complain about there being singing in musicals. It's simply accepted as a convention of the genre, like Iambic Pentameter in Shakespeare, or a car chase in an action flick.
Wait until you realize some people actively hate flamboyance and fun even when it's appropriate lol. Look up reviews of the new Doctor Who Christmas special. People hate the goblin song just because it's a song, even if the show can be anything, they expect a serious, grounded, solemn show
Some people do, indeed hate those things you mentioned. Ig ppl can find anything unnecessary. I don’t disagree or agree, like a well done anything works but it can also come from bad examples (there are really good car chases and really bad musicals) n vice versa but outliers can define your perception, esp if they were consistently bad… it also comes from ignorance. “Why are they talking like that? Shakespeare sucks!” Similar to musicals, people who like them tend to know the history. All I’ll say is that there’s bad examples of everything. Even Shakespeare wrote some hot trash (it’s funny cus we only really exp his like 3 best plays and they’re still salty 😭). but like, the og italian job has a great car chase and if you watch funny girl and you STILL hate musicals, then yes you hate musicals. But it’s such a great film that seamlessly fuses songs into dialogue I think people who hate all other musicals, could be turned around.
@@nailinthefashion Doctor Who, serious, grounded, solemn? It can be those things at times, but overall it’s bombastically fun!
You read my mind exactly. It’s amazing what people are willing to suspend their disbelief for, but singing and dancing in a movie is a step too far? It’s OK to not be a fan of the musical genre, but to decry something that is the entire point of the genre? That is incredibly stupid.
@@harrietamidala1691 classic Who, Tennant and Capaldi captured those more solemn elements but the whole point to me is that there's a bucket, armed with a plunger and screwdriver, and we're pretending it's a human hating Dalek and it's all really silly, camp, and a bit like the Magic School Bus. Anything can happen!
Oh my god I can’t believe you mentioned that bugs life ride lol. That was legitimately terrifying to me as a 6 year old and I continue to avoid 3D movies to this day. There was a part in it where the bugs were like, “you’ve been k*lling us so now it’s our turn to k*ll you” and then a spray can of raid came on the screen and smoke filled the room. Which I think is pretty intense for Disney lmao. That plus the 4D feeling of bugs crawling all over my feet, legs, back, and neck was like a living nightmare
There was one 4d experience in Texas about the dust bowl and it had a chair that would suddenly feel like a snake came up and bit you. Still traumatized 20 years later.
The most intense part for me was the wasp stinging you in the back. I loved it, it's still one of my favourite films, but man, that scared me so bad I almost peed hahahaha I think that's the loudest I've ever been in front of my parents
God, I hated that attraction. That terrified the hell out of me. I never went to it again whenever I returned to California’s adventure park and I don’t think it’s there anymore because it’s cars land.
Thank goodness I did the bug’s life attraction with a friend who visits the parks every year. She warned me when the 4d features were coming up so I wouldn’t freak out.
SAME! And then feeling the bugs crawl under our chairs! I was terrified
I will always be a defender of musicals. There’s just something about how it uses it’s own unique storytelling technique that I just find it an amazing and engaging art form.
The solution to bad musicals is not none at all, but better ones. The problem is desperately trying to copy modern trends in pop music when the OG is cringe to begin with. Why can't the music in musicals be its own thing without having to pander to the systematically lowered expectations of Top 40 dreck? I'd rather watch Elvis movies than sit through some of the sorry excuses for what Hollywood considers a musical these days. It's the same reason I can barely stand any pop "music" after the 1980s. Bad singing, bad songs, bad production, bad everything.
And the autotune has got to go. As weathered as Lucille Ball sounded in *Mame,* at least you can tell that's her. At least they do not disguise her struggling to stay in tune. And was she really worse than Yoko Ono? Or (and I know they'll raise the interest rate on my GayCard for this) Harvey Fierstein? Pop music was already dumbing down the standards for what constituted good singing, and it was only a matter of time before movie musicals responded in kind. "Musicals are dead" is a narrative that became a self-fulfilling prophesy. This is why to some of us 1980s kids, *Annie,* the Muppet movies, and even *The New Adventures of Pippi Longstocking* were like water in the desert, and *The Little Mermaid* was like manna from the Heaven that took Howard Ashman from us way too soon. *Mermaid* in particular benefited from the momentum generated by home video helping whatever musicals there were in the few years before it recover their production costs.
I think another reason people hate modern musicals is because the songs just dong make sense where theyre placed.
In older musicals and older Disney animations, the song was supposed to represent an important and intimate / exciting part of the story.
With modern music it just feel like, "the character is singing here because the lighting is good in this one scene."
i didnt always hate musicals as much as i do now, and maybe youre right,, in the old disney animated musicals its almost like they were structurally important transitional scenes, and not just something to extend the run time
As an avid bollywood watcher i don't really get the hate around musicals
Especially the 80s-90s ones that just grind to a halt to dance on top of a bus/train/cart
@@toastonmitchell2636 or when the characters are in Bombay or Delhi, then they fall in love and transport to a mountain in Switzerland for an emotional song. also, the item songs, even though I don't like the name of them, mostly make no narrative sense, they are just there for fun.
Most Bollywood try to incorporate modern, popular music, whereas most American musicals is not music like pop/ hip hop or other current sounds unlike Hamilton. The equivalent of Badshah would not normally be in a Hollywood music. This is my opinion of someone who loved Hollywood musicals and then got into Bollywood.
well bollywood films arent rlly the same as (hollywood) musicals. like ya they have songs too, but its usually like 1 or 2 songs while musicals have a new song almost every other scene. i think thats why my parents dont like musicals lol
@@yh0oexactly, also the musical numbers are complimenting the scenes but are not direct dialogue in a song🤮
Love the connection you made between Musicals back in the day being star vehicles. It explains why they thrive as part of my country's cinema (Indian cinema/Bollywood). We still operate on the star system here and most of our films are musicals. The bigger the film (star, budget & scale wise), the more chances of them having an 8-10 song OST. And we love those films here. It's very interesting to me that Hollywood operates exactly the opposite to that.
I think the star vehicles still exist....theyve just switched to directors. Cause theyre definitely directors like Quentin Tarantino or Chistopher Nolan for example that can sell a movie based on their name alone.
It is very strange that things have changed so much! I think you're right, and I also wonder if another part of it is that in Indian cinema it's more accepted for there to be playback singers rather than expecting the actor to also do all the singing? I don't know if a Hollywood star's ego would survive them having to admit that when their character sings, it's not their voice. For example, the movie Singing in the Rain has as part of its plot that an actress doesn't want it revealed that all her lines are dubbed, and threatens to sue the studio if they reveal that fact. Even our animated movies have trended towards hiring big name actors rather than voice actors, even though acting onscreen and doing voice work require different skills, because the star's name is what sells tickets.
@@nerdpantsandme That is a very interesting take. Yes, we do have backup singers and actors are just expected to deliver by lipsyncing on screen. But when it comes to ego, the actors back here carry the same ton of it I'd say. Example: A huge star like RDJ playing a supporting role in Oppenheimer...that would never happen back here with big stars. Their ego just wouldn't allow them to not be the main lead of a film. Films are sold by the lead actors names. Sometimes I think musicals in Indian just work because that is what our palettes are used to. That is the only mainstream we've known for so long and we ride with it. Big star films make tons of money, but that also hinders creative decisions imo.
To me the criticism that people don't like musicals because "people don't break out in song in real life" is BAFFLING. Because, yes, people DO break out in song! People sing to themselves, in their homes, while showering, with group of friends, sometimes at school, at parties. Go to a football stadium and there are chants that EVERYBODY knows. Singing is a VERY normal part of life.
At the very least it's way more realistic than SUPERPOWERS, or complex action scenes and yet, that criticism is never thrown at superhero or action movies.
Look, musicals not being your favorite is one thing. I usually say I don't like westerns, but there ARE westerns that I like, and if I hear good things about it, I'll watch them and every once in a while I'll like them. But dismissing musicals altogether is ridiculous and childish. Dismissing a whole genre is not being a lover of the arts.
While you’re right in saying that people do tend to sing to themselves etc, I think part of the hatred towards musicals nowadays also stems from a weirdly intense need for “realism”. So often things are reworked and rewritten to be edgier, darker, more “real” versions of an older piece of art because of how set modern audiences are on not utilizing their suspension of disbelief- there’s such little lighting in certain films, and while one might argue it’s to create ambience, I’d say that at a certain point it just becomes annoying to look at the screen and have no idea what’s going on just because “they wouldn’t have overhead lighting in this moment”. There are SO many ways to use lighting creatively (see: Suspiria 1977) and I believe the same can be done for musicals! In musicals, people break into song because that’s what the genre dictates, and it’s 100% ok for that to exist even if it’s not like real life: not everything we see at the cinema needs to be a framing of staunch realism, film can also be abstract and “nonsensical” while maintaining a serious tone!
Yeah, if you say this I'm gonna figure you only watch media that's like, the most mundane realistic workplace, school, or family films, or maybe only documentaries.
The real reason for the hate definitely isn't realism, it's cringe culture and the deep allergy towards things being earnest and campy. Everybody's gotta be 2 cool 4 school and ironypilled. No fun allowed. Buncha weakness smelling piranhas, I hate it.
The way I always argued it, is that real life doesn't have a backing soundtrack, either. And yet, Hans Zimmer is integral to many Christopher Nolan films, Randy Newman and Michael Giacchino define Disney/Pixar movies, and several more composers have reached great acclaim. Soundtracks are a separate award at the Oscars! Everyone is much more welcoming to the beauty of non-diegetic music that evokes great emotions so long as it doesn't have words in it . . . .
But do they break out in original songs that they came up with on the spot?
I LOVE that you mentioned Sideways. I love his videos! I've just rewatched a bunch of them, they're so great! I hope he's happy and thriving.
Thank you for your videos Mina, they're all so interesting and well made!
The color purple is different i feel. It wasn’t explicitly said but quite a few members of the main cast are singers first and foremost. Fantasia, halle bailey, ciara so it wasn’t a jump scare like mean girls and wonka.
I was a wannabe theatre kid with crippling low self esteem. I worked backstage and designed sets bc I couldn’t work up the nerve to audition. Even so, I will always LOVE musicals. I genuinely think ppl who hate/say they hate musicals don’t know how to have fun and live very sad lives. 😮💨😮💨
Sets and backstage work are so important to theatrical storytelling (I could write essays on how shows utilise the space and how it's part of the story)
You're not a wannabe, babe. Here, have a star 🌟
If you worked backstage and designed sets you ARE a theatre kid. Backstage people are just as important!
I like acting but I'm afraid of using power tools (set design) and heights (lighting). I would not be able to do what you've done. 😅
I was considered an “athlete” in high school but I had one of my friends ask me to volunteer as a techie for a musical. I LOVED ITTTT. I am so thankful he introduced me to musicals omg can’t get enough of it
We have our own version of fun. You theater kids are very narcissistic & pushy for wanting everyone else to be like you. Read a book & study behavioral science once in a while, you conceited lot
@@rawkieboo i'm glad you enjoyed it!! have you thought of being tech (or anything else!) for any other shows since?
If you at all like musicals and have not seen "In the Heights", get on it! It's amazing! The dancing is awesome, the musical filmmaking is so good, and the story is so dang sincere. Also, I had the pleasure of seeing it with a Puerto Rican New Yorker and if her reaction is anything to go by, it captures the heart of its story. Also, after watching it, your hype for Wicked will go through the roof. I cannot wait to see Jon M. Chu film Dancing Through Life.
It was so amazing I want her to see it so bad
I fell in love with how wonderfully Jon M. Chu adapted this musical for film (the musical has a special spot in my heart since its story hits close to home and my country was the first place to do a stage production of it outside the US back in 2011). I still get chills seeing how Paciencia y Fe was done; great choreography and really good use of staging one can do with film you cannot do onstage (plus bringing back several of the original cast members while choosing new members who fit the characters well) in a way that makes the storytelling feel alive. I hope to see his work for Wicked succeed and movie theater numbers do it justice for all the hard work poured into it once it releases 🥺
@crafteariee That filming/staging of Paciencia y Fe breaks me in pieces every single time. And her performance...completely heartbreaking. More people need to know about it.
@@broadwaybrook2319 They filmed both parts at the same time, so it's going to get a release.
In The Heights was fucking amazing! I'm sad that it flopped at the box office
i'm surprised you didn't mention matilda the musical's movie adaptation as I think it's one of the best movie musicals we've had in recent years. as always, loved the video!!
Agreed, and so many people are comparing it to the original movie not the stage adaptation it is actually based off
Best recent movie musical is Tick, tick…Boom! It leverages the best of both formats - both stage and filmaking. Need to make movies like that!
I think Chicago did a great job of allowing you to suspend reality bc the songs were set up like we are going into Roxy’s imagination, where conveniently reality is suspended. The added touch of doing the songs like a musical number on stage bc she is obsessed with that lifestyle was exactly what was needed to keep the story flowing and they would edit the film so well to cut to moments of “reality” and Roxy’s imagination which I thought was genius.
The problem with that is it convinced some people that that's the only way to do it.
@@Attmay I can see that. I’m always interested in seeing creative ways to do the musical thing but i love musicals. Maybe the world would be better if we all burst into song in real life.
As someone who's only allowed myself to sing outloud (in front of other people) in the last year, I think that the distance between who "can" sing and who "can't" was what was stopping me from singing, I've been really getting into folk music and I realised that everyone's voice is designed for singing, it's literally really good for our health to sing and when we all sing together it sounds great, and some songs are more suited to my style of singing than others (say modern pop songs), I LOVE singing and it's opened up a new way of feeling and expressing my emotions, and I've also started playing my flute and penny whistle again and learning folk music instead of classical. I think there's a thing about being 'cringe' that's inherent with singing, but god I enjoy it so much that I don't care how cringe it is, I've organised a wassail for the apple trees in my village next week and I'm so nervous but excited to sing with strangers to our apple trees!
sorry, I'm curious: you're singing to your apple trees?
Literally same!! I swear cringe culture will be the death of us, I only got over it cause my passion for singing in musicals is stronger and I have friends to share it with, but it holds so many people (and movies apparently) back and it's so sad to see
People are hypocritical af about musicals. Someone says they hate musicals, ask them what their favorite Disney movie is and they will probably say a musical.
Also musicals can be amazing for stuff like character development and depth, very underestimated.
I think I like Musicals only when the story itself is actually good and there is at least ONE bop
@@queenb2450 so you like things when they are good but not when they are bad... just like everybody on earth lol.
Encanto was their last original musical before Wish. Encanto songs were bangers and were actually important to the story because they let the characters express themselves
@@DORAisD34D and what do you know, Encanto's music was written (at least in part) by Lin-Manuel Miranda! Meanwhile Wish was written by pop writers, which admittedly isn't always a recipe for failure, but it certainly didn't help when the story was flat and the characters generally unmemorable (name all of Asha's 7 friends off the top of your head if you don't believe me)
Might be bc they can suspend belief if it’s animated but not if it’s life-action?
i’m a current theater kid and i’m not going to lie, subconsciously i don’t even categorize most disney or movie musicals as actual musicals. to me its a movie with songs in it, unless its a movie adaptation of an existing stage play or it plays up the theatricality. for example hairspray. thats a musical! mulan? a movie with singing in it. les mis? a musical. willy wonka? a movie with singing in it.
edit: i say theater kid, but im 27 pursing a career in theater production.
I have to disagree. Disney musicals are designed like a conventional musical. Most of them have the “I want song” and the songs progress the plot or convey the characters’ inner monologues. That’s why Disney can make their movies into stage productions without changing much in the book. For the same reasons, I’d say Wonka is more a musical than the original.
to me, a musical is theatrical in nature, not a mere definition of "here is the equation, so it's a musical." there is something specific in the cadence of the dialogue, the costumes the characters wear, the contents of the songs, not just furthering the plot but telling a story (aka not an aside, an actual story). when i think of a disney movie, i think "there's singing" i don't think "this is a musical, because by definition it's a musical" there's no feeling of musical theater to me at all, which is where i get my definition of "musical". 90% of animated musical movies do not feel like musicals at all because in a musical there is an inherent feeling of "you are watching me TELL you a story through a dramatic reenactment" not "here's the story, pretend this is happening right now"@@mhawang8204
@@fishtickI hink the commenter is talking about old Disney which were directed by Ashman such as the little mermaid (animated if course) and Beauty and the Beast.Howard Ashman was famous due for not only using broadway actors in his movies but using a broadway/opera take of it.He is the whole reason why Disney songs are synonymous with musicals.
Sadly this changed with when Frozen came which took a more pop direction with it song ‘Let it Go’ this then pushed later Disney animated movies to take the same direction and is the reason why ‘Wish’ has the pop song direction.
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004pure imagination, candy man, the song Charlie’s mom sings, the song Veruca Salt sings. It’s a musical.
100% AGREED
I think about the stage musical/animated musical vs live action film musical barrier ALL THE TIME! It makes so much sense!
I liked the Les Mis movie but comparing it to the real live musical is not possible. I saw Les Mis on West End back in .07 and it was magnificent. Not a dry eye in the audience when it ended. I really enjoy musicals. ❤
I loved Wonka. It was so whimsical and different than every other movie nowadays. Also a reason why I liked Barbie: different, non-realistic, not taking itself seriously
Mina at 19:50 saying people don't follow individual creators so closely anymore and consume all their videos, as if we're not all plunking ourselves down to listen to whatever rabbit hole Mina has decided to delightfully inform us about this time.
Yeah I follow creators on YT for their personality and watch every single video they put out, even if I'm not super interested in the subject 😅
Lately it seems a lot of people have been using youtube as one would use tiktok -mindlessly scrolling through shorts -but thankfully the platform still allows and (somewhat) promotes the earlier creator based watching habits. The mere fact that on youtube you "subscribe" to a creator's "channel", rather than "follow" their "profile", creates a clear distinction (even if subconsciously) in how you approach the content you are viewing.
As a theatre kid, I forget that so many people see the words "movie musical" as a bad thing. I think more movies should be musicals actually.
I adored Wonka and I love musicals but I will never forget the visceral reaction I had when Timothee first began singing, it took several minutes for my shock to dissipate and for normal service to resume. Despite the rocky beginnings and my total lack of faith in his casting, I think Timothee really nailed it when combined with the charming and cosy positivity and optimistic Paddington-esque vibe.
Paramount didn't give the original film much promotion after the huge promotional pushes they gave to *Paint Your Wagon* and *On a Clear Day You Can See Forever* did not result in greater box office revenues. They treated it as just another children's movie with little to no adult appeal. The ratings system was relatively new so this was one of the first movie musicals to actually begin life with a G rating and not just get slapped with it after the fact like so many re-issues of pre-1968 movie musicals.
Timothee didn't nail it at all. He came off as cringy.
Boy really can't do much more than brooding boy roles. They should have picked a musically trained actor
@@shayanahmed7132 he is one tho...he went to LaGuardia and has been on broadway. a lot of yall fail to realize he is a theater kid lol
I didn't understand why they were doing a mean or color purple remakes until I watched your earlier video mentioning it was a musical. I'm more excited to watch both movies because they're musicals
I wish ppl released more proshots of broadway musicals instead of adapting them!!! their contagious energy and pure live vocals and talent gets lost in the live action translation.
I think it's a mistake to assume that casting an actor who is also a singer trained in theatre will lower the quality of the acting. That's the whole point, to convey these emotions and feelings through the singing. No opera singer will break their voice and deform the music to convey that the character is happy, sad, in love, devastated, or dying, and the emotions are still there when the artist is good enough. But when the acting is hyper-realistic with a butchered song, then the scene loses substance.
Good point
THANK YOU this principle is what bother me about Anne Hathaway’s I dreamed a dream. You can sing well and convey emotions at the same time. God bless
@@alwaysrootingfortheantihero123 and you can clearly see that with the other actors in Les Mis who have a theater background like Aaron Tveit and Samantha Barks
@@Lety-Ferreira yes, it killed me three times over to hear javert sing, then hear cosette and eponine, and Hugh jackman’s bring him home was just not it
Hadestown is my favorite stage musical. I’ve seen it 3 times and counting. I’m simply obsessed with tragic love stories and it delivers!
oh my god hadestown is so good
I JUST watched Mama Mia 1 and 2 and you can sooooooo tell how much fun they had filming and you as the viewer just wish you were there!
Sideways is such a good channel. Thank you so much for referencing him. Its so sad hes not posting anymore but I also hope he comes back too 🤞🏻
My issue with movie musicals is that they sometimes try to be too real. It's a musical. Lean into it!
That really depends on the musical itself. The musicals of the 60s and 70s are structurally more grounded and realistic.
As my theatre teacher said when we did a musical at school: musicals are dumb so take yourself seriously on stage. And this abt fiddler on the roof so it’s not a happy go lucky show, but you just have to let go of realism for the serious message to land
I'm worried about that with the mean girls musical. I'm really excited for it, but i hope they lean into the traditional broadway aspect more and not try to make it too modern or realistic. Tina Fey and her husband said they wanted it to feel like a pop album from spotify and that worries me.
@@alwaysrootingfortheantihero123absolutely! Well said
That contradicts a lot of the arguments in the video of why ppl hate them lol
As a theater kid myself, I love musicals. But even I know that not every movie needs to be a musical
Some movies that got turned into musicals could have worked if the songs were better. I used to look at books and plays and wonder how to adapt them for the screen. Now I watch movies and wonder where to put songs in the inevitable musical version.
I’ve been to a broadway rave, and holy shit it was so fun, but I would absolutely perish if I was not into theater and was brought to one unbeknownst to me. But you really don’t want people to be there who don’t want to be there bc they’ll ruin it
😂 i just invisioned an entire bar singing oklahoma and trying to square dance
I like musicals, but don't like a lot of musical theater..... However my bestie is a musical theater kid. So I bought us tickets to Broadway rave thinking it would be musical theater club remixes or something. Finding out that it was nothing but musical theater kids singing along was absolutely miserable for me. But my friend ended up having a blast.
I ended up just hanging out in the bathroom and making friends with some of the venue staff because I didn't want to ruin her good time... Especially since it was my bright idea in the first place 💀💀💀
Your point at 26:00 made me realize why Chicago works for me while a lot of other movie musicals don't. When it comes to the musical numbers, they're done either on an actual stage (which makes them make sense in reality) or they're done in the individual or collective imaginations of the characters. Roxie performs in her fantasies, the lawyer metaphorically tap dances through his cross examination (with shots of the actual tap dance on a disembodied stage woven through the scene), etc. It wouldn't have worked any other way.
Totally not to dismiss your perspective, it just made me think of this (and this doesn't apply to musical fantasy/imagination sequences). But I do think it can be risky when musicals try too hard to be "not like the other musicals" and always have Good Reasons People Are Singing. There are definitely musicals I feel do this in a negative way that are widely loved, so it might just be a pet peeve, but sometimes it does feel like someone who hates musicals has decided to write a musical and just doesn't get the genre. So the overall affect can be alienating to people who actually like musicals, if the movie is kind of apologizing for being a musical or trying too hard to be Super Realistic about it. It's also often considered more Realistic if the songs don't have to do with what the characters are going through at that moment (if it's just a job or karaoke party or whatever), and specifically trying to avoid using the songs to further characterization and plot is just a disappointment imo.
That's because the musical numbers were always intended to be in Roxies imagination. It wouldn't work for other shows
@@MadameCorgi Sure it would, Chicago lifted the formula from Cabaret. Tick Tick Boom also did it well. But of course like Howard Ashman put it, the best method to get people to check reality at the door is animation.
My favorite musicals growing up was Calamity Jane and singing in the rain! Honestly classic musicals are still my favorite movies and always will be. Thanks for the interesting video, I hadn’t really thought about why they don’t work as well now, but this honestly explains a lot.
My favorite musical is Moulin Rouge, and I think it's a perfect balance between the theatrical and realistic genres. I think it doesn't get enough credit!
i agree! ive watched the movie many times and i saw the stage version! both are amazing :))
how on earth is moulin rouge realistic in literally any way
I LOVE musicals, it is my favorite genre, and I really still can not understand why people don't like them, they just make me happy... the "people don't burst into song in real life" argument doesn't convince me because you are watching a movie so it makes sense to me that many things that happen in any movie, people don't do in real life... I don't know, I just love musicals, for me, if you tell me that a movie is a musical I'll go to see it
i recently saw The Wicker Man -- a folk horror movie that's at least somewhat a musical, full of characters singing folk songs. i think it is brilliant and part of what sets the movie apart, and i wish more movies now were able to break from formula like this, but also i feel the studios dont trust audiences to let themselves appreciate anything other than the formula -- rightly or wrongly
I love the wicker man! and you’re right, I specifically think the musical element in it helps *so* much in adding another layer of unsettling ambience to the whole story
Christopher Lee believed in the movie so much that he worked for free.
Hearing Sideways' voice was such a pleasant surprise! I've really missed his content and I hope he'll make his return this year! Great video as always❤
An aspect to this you might not have considered/known about is how the animatic scene on UA-cam of fanmade scenes to popular musical songs either with existing fandoms or the artist's original characters, have kept the musical genre alive. I love musicals, but what got me to actually buy a very, very expensive theatre ticket and look into the Toronto broadway scene was the influx of videos with people making animatics to Be More Chill, Dear Evan Hansen, and of course, Hamilton.
Lovely video as always, Mina.
I'd rather see them write new scores instead of hitching on other people's coattails. Disney is at its best when they create musicals from scratch, but when they adapt other people's musicals, the results are not that great. They're like a pilot who knows everything about an airplane except how to land safely.
Mamma Mia! WILL always be THE TOP summer film. It will just never get old! La La Land managed to capture something that no other film has managed to capture since then, an old musical aesthetic that brings nostalgia and a sense of magic because of the story and casting that makes it incredibly unique. All of these along with the direction, cinematography blend perfectly with the music, it’s just incredible.
when i found out wonka was a musical i immediately wondered what you would think im so glad we finally have this video with an explanation
omg as a recovering theatre kid (once a theatre kid always a theatre kid) i’ve been WAITING for this
What really baffles me about "realistic" musicals like the Les Miserables movie is, i mean, the characters are already bursting out into song at big dramatic moments in their life, there is no amount of framing that will convince people that this is a realistic turn of events. As such, the unwillingness to engage with the central metaphor of the genre marks an admittance of defeat on the only front where the story even stands a chance of feeling emotionally real.
Yessss!
Moulin rouge and phantom of the opera are my favorite movie musicals, the singing fits in because the set is already pretty theatrical and you can still get in to the emotional scenes
I could never find my self comparing Jacob Elordi to Timothy. Ever since his role as Laurie in Little Women he was just perfect to play a chiper character like wonka. I will always love a good entertaining musical though. “Why did she just break into song?” “Why not?! Her voice was amazing and the song is heat.” Love them.
I also think that the parody or one-off jokes in movies like Monty Python & the Holy Grail, Spirited, or Enchanted that paint singing out of nowhere as bad/crazy/unrealistic has painted audience's mindset as to what constitutes a musical despite how arbitrary it is to say when it actually happens in actual musicals. When Judy Garland sings Over the Rainbow, Angela Lansbury solos Beauty & the Beast or Gene Kelly does Singin in the Rain, there is never an urge inside of me to view them as dorks, but instead more competent than I could. Great Video.
I hate hidden musicals they better not make this a trend. I’m glad someone leaked that Mean Girls is a musical
'leaked'😭
"leaked"? Most of the cast in the movie is the same as from the musical, lol.
@@ascupid5572the trailers so far actively hid the singing, so yes, it was technically leaked even if most of us clocked the lace front
leaked??? most people been knew that it was a musical. that's how news outlets introduced it back in 2022/2023
@@ayo8558 well, i am from a country in Europe and almost all of the ppl i know didn't know it was a musical so yeah
I watched mama Mia for the first time this last weekend….i personally don’t think the movie or story could hold up without the ABBA songs. And that’s how I think about most musicals if they didn’t have any songs would it still be a good movie.
Back in the '90's before there was even a stage version, I listened to the ABBA Gold cassette(!) & thought "These songs would work great in a musical!" I manifested "Mamma Mia!"!
the songs in a musical literally carry the plot, they have most of the plot information and movements in them, obviously most musicals wouldn't still be good if you got rid of all the songs. jukebox musicals like mamma mia are a different story altogether re: how they communicate plot and character development
Well Mamma Mia is also unique in that it’s a Jukebox musical, meaning it was written FOR the songs that already existed. So of course the plot points are on the nose lol, of course it relies on the music.
But then all musicals suffer when you take away the music. Why? Because the plot is in the music. The emotion, character development, dialogue, all in the music. You can decipher most (80%) of the plot through the soundtrack alone. In a GOOD musical, the music serves a purpose and is tied in well with the plot. Even the lighthearted fun bangers. They are made to further the story. Why would you WANT a musical without music?
The main complaint I hear about musicals is why are they singing. But if you took the songs out, you’d miss key plot elements, foreshadowing in the leitmotifs, emotional depth, meaningful character moments. There are things called “I want” songs that literally introduce the main character and their entire intentions. Without that, you get more lazy boring exposition. It’s an uncreative, unimaginative, unbearably tired thing.
I love musicals because they are expressive passionate heartfelt. The time and dedication that go into learning the songs, choreography, the acting scenes and the costumes. All of this is wrapped with a big ribbon for everyone to laugh cry and feel along with the characters.
I love musicals so much because of my nan and I wish I could thank her for introducing them to me
Loved this! Makes me think about Hairspray the movie being such a winning success then becoming Hairspray Live ten years later and the quick stint of TV Musicals that all were commercial flops, but were also all so fantastic.
Oh, also! The best movie musical to come out recently is Tick, Tick, Boom!, which does a fantastic job at blending reality and surreal elements of musicals. Its directed by Lin-Manuel Miranda (who obviously loves and understands musicals) so I think this has something to do with it.
My favorite live show is Natasha, Pierre, & The Great Comet of 1812 and I also really like Ride The Cyclone, Hadestown, and Six. (If anyone's interested, there are slime tutorials on youtube).
My favorite older movie musical is Cabaret, and favorite older shows are Sunday in the Park with George, Sweeney Todd, and Into the Woods. Also side note but I hate when they take out harmonies/dissonance in movie versions of musicals and have everyone sing the same melody line instead (the movie version of Sweeney Todd does this BADLY, taking out some truly cool moments, and it drives me bonkers).
Cabaret and The Umbrellas of Cherbourg are my favorite musicals. Both have amazing storytelling and the music is fantastic.
I surprisingly enjoyed Tick, Tick Boom even though I was trepidatious about it. I think movie musicals can be great; it's all about the execution and also writing great music.
As someone who studies and writes about movie musicals, particularly from the 30s and 40s, this is a great video that covers a lot of the history of early musicals and why they have become less popular. I think the star system or lack there of , as you mentioned, has a big influence on why we don’t see as many musicals today, but is something that could definitely be brought back (see Renee Rapp who has a music career and started out in theatre). Having vehicles that showcase the talents of a specific actor like was the case with Fred and Ginger films, could help with the resurgence of the musical. Loved this!
You know back in the day people used to just sing while feeling emotional my dad would sing while happy & Grandpa would play his guitar & sing songs about his life.
Life is a musical, we all have a soundtrack to our lives.
I personally don't understand how some can't suspend their disbelief. It's a movie...it isn't real to begin with...what's not clicking?
sideways video essays are top tier for me and i share your hopes and prayers for his return!! i'm a little bit stunned that you love him (bc my worlds are colliding!!). great job on this one, i was a little worried it would pay less respect to musical movies but im glad i decided to watch anyway.
Okay, I actually love this new filming spot. So cozy and organic 🥰
I've known a few people who state that they hate musicals except la la land. In my mind, it didn't make any sense because, as I see it as a musical lover, it's one of the most musical movies of the last few years. But what you said about more realistic acting actually is a really good point. Really interesting analysis❤
I really didn't expect Wonka to be a musical, but I wasn't disappointed. My brother on the other hand was because I assured him it wasn't a musical before going to watch it. oops
I love that you very specifically assured him that it wasn't a musical 💀💀
@@taylorg2320it was all part of their plan too. They licherally sold more tix because they lied lmao
i can imagine you telling him it wasn't a musical during the ads or something and him being absolutely betrayed once the first song started
@@astridtot omg literally when the first song started playing he looked at me in horror and I felt so bad. It's okay he still liked it hahahhaha
@@abrahamt4946 haha, that sounds like a scene straight from a cartoon. i'm glad it was enjoyable thoug
I wish the casting of actual song-and-dance actors was still the expectation. Like some movies have gotten lucky with casting actors that aren’t trained singers - Amanda Seyfried has a voice like a bell that I could listen to all day and Renee Zellweger was actually very charming as Roxie Hart - but there is a big difference between “an actor that can hold a tune” and someone who has trained in music their whole life. And other than Jennifer Hudson hiring pop singers hasn’t produced anything better. As much as her sudden omnipresence rubs me the wrong way, Ariana DeBose is a trained musical theater professional and actually brought that expertise to West Side Story in a way few others in that main cast did.