These RADIOACTIVE Lenses are no JOKE
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
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From the 1940s to around the 1980s, manufacturers would make lenses radioactive by inserting thorium into the glass of the lens. Why did they do this, how harmful is the radiation to you, but more importantly... how does it look on a modern camera?
Tell us what you think below!
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0:00 The Radioactive Super Takumar 50mm
0:43 It's hard to find time to learn as a creative
1:41 Eastman Kodak files a patent for thoriated lenses
2:04 Originally Aerial Lenses and other companies like Canon join in
2:25 What is the benefit of the lenses being RADIOACTIVE?
3:02 The compound Thorium Oxide
3:53 How Thorium is beneficial to lenses
4:18 How Radioactive are these lenses and is it DANGEROUS?
5:40 Best practices to avoid over exposure to you and your camera
6:14 Why did they ABANDON these lenses?
6:32 Lens Tests!
6:56 Scientific Tests: Color Rendition, Focus Sharpness, Chromatic Aberration
8:31 Real World Tests
10:00 Are you a camera nerd too?
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#RadioactiveLens #skillshare #FrameVoyager - Фільми й анімація
What do you guys think about these Radioactive Lenses? Do you have one?
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So, this fails to take into account the actual particles emitted, the inverse square law and a few other things. Camera lenses don't expose you to that much radiation because you're not actually getting a dose of 10 millirem an hour from them, because that's an absorbed dose. They emit that much radiation, but unless you're holding it directly in your mouth for an hour, you're getting fractions of that dose. A lot of that radiation is also going to be alpha and beta emissions, which can be stopped by thin plastic and skin, further reducing exposure. If you think about how much time you actually hold a lens close to your face as a photographer, especially without a camera body in the way that's going to block a lot of harmful radiation reaching you, you really don't have anything to worry about.
True! Only real threat I've found is if you inhale particles or ingest it. But even if you got glass in your skin it's still not radioactive enough to penetrate and affect you.
Not a physicist, so tried my best in the technical details of it. So thanks for the correction!
Yep!
Missed the extra "m" on the video. And I looked up how to pronounce it and found 3 different pronunciations of it 😅 I figured I would pick the wrong one. SUPER lenses though
Big fan of the inverse square law
Don't tell me where I can and can't stick my camera lens.
You're right 😩
Funny thing is I've been a physician for 40 years, with a PhD in Radiology for about 30, so I know a thing or two about radioactivity, and the extent of danger on us...
Technically, are there risks? Yes. Just like there are risks of getting hit by a bus everytime you're walking down the street, like there are risks of getting poisoned everytime you get an x-ray, just like there are risks of getting rejected everytime you ask her out :)
Just don't eat your hundred year-old lenses everyday for next 20 years, and you'll be fine, happy shooting people!
Exactly! Really not that much radiation and the radiation it puts off doesn't even really penetrate your skin. Still fun to tell people you've got a radioactive lens haha
Don't eat the lens? Now you tell me.
They look tasty, Oh God!
The browning of the lens is actually a byproduct of the thorium breaking down.
You can restore it to some degree if you expose the glass to a lot of UV Light.
Since you already shot some test charts, it would be very interesting to test how much of the whitebalance shift can be removed, and if this has an effect on the CAs.
Yep! Yeah, I had thought about trying to do a time lapse of putting the lens under UV lights and getting rid of the browning but I ended up running out of time. Might be a good follow up video 🤔
I'd probably leave it as long as I can until normal sun exposure un-tints it, get the most of that natural filter until it's undone
One of my Bell and Howell lenses from the WW2 era had significant discoloration. I blasted it with UV light for about a week to clear it all up. I have another of the same lens to actually show a comparison of the yellowing-browning effect.
I had a March 1970 Nikon 35mm f1.4 in 2015-18. It was fairly yellow-brown, so I researched how to clear it. First, I left it in a south-facing window for about a week, but all that did was get it really hot, which I figured probably wasn't so swell for the lubricants inside. So I got a blacklight bulb, stuck it in a socket plug, & rigged up a stand w/an extension cord & left the lens under that. In a week, it was perfectly clear.
Then I carried it around on a Nikon F for a day, & now my kids all have extra fingers & toes.
Kidding! No children.
hahahaha nice!
I sh!t you not. when I was a kid, I landed a weekend job cleaning out a warehouse at a local airplane hangar. it was a MASSIVE pile of aviation junk. Bolts, gauges, scrap, you name it. My job was to look for large bolts and put them in bags. I found this small "exit sign" and it looked brand new, so I took it home. at night I went to bed and when I turned the lights off it was glowing faintly. there were no batteries and I thought "cool, glow in the dark paint". so I stared at it in the dark for about 10 minutes and started falling asleep, and I put it under my pillow. I woke up in the morning with a terrible headache.. later that after noon I looked at the back of the exit sign and thats when I discovered the word "tritium". still not sure if it caused the headache but I sure knew what a "curie" was after that day. wonder if my eyeballs looked yellow that day.. of course there was the time I held a blacklight under my eyes and stared at myself in the mirror for 20 minutes because I looked like the incredible hulk. how did we ever survive?
👀
😮
I wouldn't say they were abandoned. They served their useful time and are not obsolete. Cool to think that they even figured that out.
That was just a joke 😅
But yeah pretty cool!
Been waiting for this since we talked about it on the show. Thanks for all the research, it made the video very interesting. 👏👏👏
haha was waiting for the right time to make it! Glad you enjoyed it!
I have two of these 50mm Takumars. It was the first good lens I ever owned and remains my favorite 20 years later.
Such great lenses and not that expensive either
The other thing I need to mention, distance from the lens significantly drops the amount of radiation received, after about a foot away, there isn't much to worry about.
Thorium is also used in trace amounts in TIG welding electrodes. 2% Thoriated tungsten electrodes are very common and have one end painted red to indicate they are thoriated. Thorium has also been used as radiation shielding and can also be a radioactive decay product of uranium.
Just like how you don’t want to inhale broken thoriated glass, you don’t want to inhale thoriated tungsten when you grind the points of electrodes for welding. I have ground mine with a mask on outside as a precaution
Oh interesting! Actually have filmed quite a bit of welding including mig, stick, sub-arc, and TIG. Didn't realize TIG had Thorium in it. Thorium is an interesting substance for sure.
@@FrameVoyager tungstenio color red .
Remember, at the time these lenses were made, all cameras had to have an on-board radioactivity detection system. It's called photographic film. The same material that was placed in dosimeter badges for workers in radioactive materials handling operations. If a worker were exposed to a level of radiation worthy of concern, it would show on his film badge when it was developed, and he would be distanced from the source for an adequate period, while processes would be improved to reduce the leakage at the source. Since all cameras used film at the time, and many lenses were attached to the camera body all the time, or most of the time, any significant emission, particularly from the rear element, would have been a known issue in film fogging. A Takumar lens like this would have been screwed into a Pentax body loaded with ASA 400 film and sitting on a shelf for months at a time without anyone ever reporting film fogging from it.
Some other lenses may have had higher radioactivity levels, and the Aero-Ektar mentioned is the most famous example, but once again it did have to be used in immediate proximity to film, and in many reconnaissance missions they were flying at night, using the most sensitive emulsions they had, and even pre-exposing them in some cases to make them more sensitive, so there is just a real-world limit to how emissive these lenses could be and still work.
Miniaturized geiger counters are available for cheap these days, and some are surprisingly good, so I would like to see some more scientific, measurement-based data on lenses people have in their collections, but remember your inverse-square law of propagation. If you've got a couple lenses like this in your lens cabinet, and you are within one meter of them for some minutes a month it is unlikely you have anything to be concerned about, and I would unhesitatingly handle and use them, though I would like to have more measured data about their emissivity just to establish more rational guidelines.
The video you made is one of the most comprehensive descriptions of radioactive lenses I've ever seen. Exceptional analysis and video.👍
Appreciate it! Kinda thought the video would do a bit better but you can never guess what will get big on UA-cam haha
Me keeping my collection of radioactive lenses 5 feet from my bed
Great info! I have three Super-Multi-Coated Takumars and really like shooting with them on my Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera. I have a 28, 35 and a 50. I can’t remember if they all have thoriated glass but I was able to really improve my 50 with an IKEA JANSJO USB LED. The 28 and 35 don’t look yellow at all but my 50 was very yellow until treated. These lenses were used in two outdoors videos on my channel if you want to see some more Takumar footage on a Micro. I don’t shoot often enough and need to practice again soon. Thanks John!
nice review :) ... I've shot B+W since 1976 and I have the 50mm f1.4 ... the Thorium shows how well it works with B+W ... the lens is razor sharp and there is a reason it's in the top 10 lenses of all time
Appreciate it! And for real! It puts out such a pleasing image
Do you think you could scan that test chart and upload it somewhere as a PDF?
Nice video as always! I came to a similar conclusion with mine. I love it for darker more moody shots, and my current work load doesn't really match that. However I love the image and the feel of the lens so much I still use it anyway from time to time.
Appreciate it! And same! It's a fun lens to get to use! Used it with Ursa g2 a lot. Would love to try it with the 12k URSA
@@FrameVoyager nice! I shoot mostly on the original Ursa Mini Pro and Pocket 6k Pro and it's fantastic on both. I haven't shot many stills with it, but I'm curious to throw it on my 5Ds R and see how it holds up on a super high res sensor. Might be a good indication of it's performance on the 12k if only the sensors were the same size
3:08 What the hell is "thorium is a crystalline" supposed to mean? "Crystalline" isn't a noun but an adjective, and thorium is a metal, so at best some of its salts can look a little like what you are showing there.
The radioactivity can be blocked by a piece of paper, all alpha particles. Besides that, the material in a camera actually blocks the radiation too. I have a 125 pound lens in my garage that has a large rear element entirely thoriated. It won't cause the kind damage that people are scared of. There are other videos that explain how low the radioactive levels are.
If I get scratched by a radioactive lens will I become a Camera-Man?
CBRN Video Shooter Here! - Using a TYCHEM suit is funny, (CBRNe Suits are more comfortable) But in reality lead vests are the minimum for radiological handling, but real world notes those aint ABEK2HGP3 filters (also no comms in crappy consumer masks, Avon C50 is a poor mans minimum), the suit is not taped, but the nitrate gloves are a meme they are only used in healthcare/consumer world, butyl gloves are like 10USD a pop and worth it for even doing the washing up lol they last a lifetime, but whats interesting is all pro 400mm+ glass today has radioactive coatings.
😂😂😂 for sure! Was going more for dramatics then reality 😅 but I'll keep this info in my back pocket in case I ever need real protection 😂
@@FrameVoyager I mostly use filter time on chopping Onions & 99.9% IPA handling cleaning stuff, only in hospitals do I get genuine protective use thanks to the pandemic world, but I only recommend 40mm nato and military issue kit due to affordability and availability now and if the world ends in the next 20 years or so they are meant for up to 1-week use without break, consumer stuff will give you jaw issues and all sorts.
I wouldn’t hold that lens too close to my face even with a hazmat suit on
Don't be afraid of radiation.
Even a sheet of paper, or just your dead skin cells would stop the radiation emitting from the glass.
Very literally don’t sleep on this lens
If you wanna try it let us know how it goes 😅
Don't sleep with it under your pillow?
Your pillow will be enough to block the radiation so you might as well put it there if that's your thing 😂
I actually have a Super Takumar 50mm F/1.4, I thought it was really interesting that it was yellowed because of radiation.
Well I didn't sleep with one of these under my pillow but I unknowingly had one in a camera bag under my bed for two years. Thankfully it was attached to on old spotmatic camera body which absorbed most of the radiation. When I risk assessed I was recording over a 1000 counts a minute at the back of the lens but when I placed the lens back on the camera and back in the bag under my bed I was only registering around 30 counts per minute above the bed where I was laying. This is around 5 counts a minute above natural background radiation so I think I got away with it. Very nice video by the way!
👀Are you ok?
@@FrameVoyager Yeah, the camera body , bag, and mattress absorbed the vast majority of the gamma shooting out the back of the lens. Adding the inverse square law to this meant I was receiving barely more than background radiation. I worked as a Radiographer for 15 years so probably received a lot more dose from that to be honest. I appreciate you asking though cheers :)
@Astro La Vista 😂I'm just kidding! Yeah, the lenses aren't very dangerous at all. Still pretty cool history and the fact that they do emit radiation even if it's only a trace amount
A Super Takumar 55mm is one of my go-to lenses with my A7siii. Love me some radioactive goodness :3
Mmmm bet that looks nice! In all honesty, they have a really good look to them for a very cheap price.
what if the lens radiation does something special to the imaging chip, something magical. everyone wants to buy your prints because it changes their lives. but you think the camera is magical and use all the money they pay you to buy a better lens.. but then you lose the magic and think your camera is failing at the magic. but then the person you gave your lens to now starts taking magical pictures. so you try to take an actual photo of THEIR picture but the magic communicated through their picture and starts talking to your chip, its old friend.
@@flipnap2112 Oooooo I like it! If it's paired with blackmagic cameras does it do something evil?
@@FrameVoyager mmm.. onto something here..
🤔🤔🤔
I own one of these, had no idea it was radioactive.
👀 sounds like it might be time for a doctor's visit
@@FrameVoyager well in all honesty I don’t use it often. It more or less sits on my shelf
@@irisout7463 haha they are really good looking lenses!
@@FrameVoyager I know, I love the lens. I just don’t shoot as often as I’d like to.
So you do often make other type videos other than abandoned camera...lol
Nice vid mate.. as always.
hahaha I do! That series has just really taken off! Lot more like this video to come hopefully!
Seems like you haven't watched his videos before he started Abandoned camera series. Or maybe Abandoned camera series overshadowed his other content.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist haha he and I go waaaayyyyyyy back to the 12 hour livestream I did last year haha.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist But you're probably right, it definitley has started overshadowing it. Might be able to do my other content more effectively in the future when I have a larger following. But enjoying making the ABANDONED series!
@@FrameVoyager i discovered you because abandoned but then checked out your other stuff and liked.
I had that same lens and always wondered why it was golden... oh man glad I sold that. sheesh!
😅Glad I could help out with that haha
3:37 Forbidden Cheese.
Great production. Wouldn’t be the first, or most radioactive object in my possession. But alas, I don’t need one so I’ll leave it for others. But I’m curious how it would perform in a cloud chamber.
4:51 everywhere I go i see Blackmagic. I saw one in a South India movie they used in scene as a interview camera.
haha I see them used as props in movie A LOT too
@@FrameVoyager many director/cinematographers own BM cameras. Director of Shazam also shared a image of BMPCC 6k just after buying. Not sure if it was Pro or normal version.
@@JaspreetSinghArtist They are slowly starting to creep into the market. With a couple strategic camera releases they could start making some larger waves. But honestly, they'd be smart to stay in the prosumer level
@@FrameVoyager id be happy if they could just put a LANC port, but I understand why they dont. but really, they could make a proprietary one. I love my 6kpro but a "selfie button" on the front? really? dufuk were they thinking? still one of the best cameras in that price range ive ever owned. the image is just amazing. oh and global shutter would be nice.. but id settle for a faster refresh
@@flipnap2112 The URSA line has some LANC ports.
Hii. I have a different question. I bought 3 vintage lenses. These lenses are made with radioactive material. There is dust on the 2 lenses and around the edges. Could this dust come from inside the lens? So, can thorium come out of the lens in powder form? Respects
I would say more than likely that's just dust. If the glass isn't broken should be totally fine. Even then, it's really not overly high levels of radiation
@@FrameVoyager Thanks a lot for your answer. There are no cracks in the glass, but there seems to be a slight crack in the inner layer. But can the dust in that inner crack leak out?
I'm kinda more worried about my sensor then say my hand. Especially on the rear element. I'm hoping the glass on the sensor stops it.
From what I can tell it's totally fine, I just won't ever leave it on my camera for days at a time.
someone somewhere analysed that these lenses seems to cause hot pixels that remain for a very short time, as the radiation excites the pixels. However, there is always some radiation around us and neither that is breaking the senor immediately. Moreover, eventually all electronic components, including sensors, will fail anyway 😛
I am kind of concerned since i have used this lens since 2014.
Don't judge me for sleeping with my lenses
👨⚖️⚖️
Poeple never like quality content. Thank you very much for this informative video. Is very sad, that you have so small views. Ah god... Very underrated channel.
Appreciate it! Yeahhhh, working on it. Finally found a vein with some other content getting higher view counts. Unfortunately content like this just doesn't perform well 🤷♂️
Make a video flying around with the lens and security responses lol.
Wondering if these lenses also face fungus issue or radiation help.
I did not come across that in my research but I feel like it's probably safe for the most part besides the browning.
@@FrameVoyager if this radiation can help preventing fungus on the lenses then it can be considered as a feature. 🤣
@@JaspreetSinghArtist 🤣🤣🤣 for REAL!
@@FrameVoyager in future you should do start another series. as your channel grow maybe you will be able to reach out some laptop brands to test them specifically for Premier Pro and Davinci resolve. Best at 1k range ,, 1.5k range and above.
I have a few of these thorium lenses. Unfortunately, they suffer from fungus about the same as other lenses.
I find myself watching videos of yours that are completely irrelevant to me. Your channel is criminally undersubscribed if that's even a word. I Appreciate the hard work that goes into your content and while nearly 20k subs is no easy task I'm sure you'll find yourself in the sub count that you deserve. Thanks again for all the hard work, I've learned a ton about my cam (bmpcc 4k) through your channel, I use it for flight and just starting out in the gimbal world which is where most professionals argue this is not the right cam for that situation but I'm determined to prove otherwise. I've yet to see a camera that offers a raw color science that looks anywhere near its quality at this price range as long as your willing to work around it's flaws which let's face it any cinema camera out there will have the same flaws.
Ahhh too bad, under my pillow is already my fluffy Sigma 150-600mm. BTW thanks for another great vid!
👀 let us know how that goes 😅 and appreciate it!
@@FrameVoyager Get a bolster pillow, remove filling, insert lens. Done! 🙃
Lens got a nice vibe, hope its cheap from the debuff
It wasn't expensive haha
Oh snap! I have 2 of these!
Nice! Such cool lenses
You should get your hands on Fujinon 50 1.4, it's the king of radioactive lenses.
I ADORE my M42 mount SMC 35mm f2 & 7 element 50mm f1.4 ♥♥♥♥
ua-cam.com/video/ofOBsomDf3k/v-deo.html shot with a combination of helios 442 and smc takumar 35mm f2 with the SLR Magic Anamorphot 1.33x
They are AWESOME lenses!
The radioactivity can cause permanent damage to the camera sensor?
A bit of speculation but I've heard several people who own these lenses claim that. No solid evidence, but just a word of caution! Probably not best to keep it on the camera overnight
Kind of.
The radiation could excite the sensor a bit too much and overload it to the point where you get a permanent dead pixel.
But we're talking about radiation that you could only find at the ISS, I highly doubt those lenses emit that much radiation so the sensor should be fine.
Sam O’Nella academy has a great video on Thorium, if anyone wants several minutes of fun education on this topic :)
Its the lens cementing that gets yellow. From a safety perspective this video lacks a lot of information! Since the radiation level / byproduct of this old lenses change with model / brand... There's some experiments done and some of this lenses even emit beta / gamma radiation. For an accurate video you should go to a hospital / lab and talk directly with a radiologist, and a physicist. One to comment about health hazards, other to explain how to store and to use it safely.
Radiation can destroy your CMOS chip
I have heard that, just couldn't figure out if it was enough coming from these lenses to do that
@@FrameVoyager doesn't need that much Zack Snyder used old radioactive Canon lenses for his recent zombie movie his film is full of dead pixels caused by radioactive lenses.
"takummar" in text? :)
The Beatles loved them
You look like a mix between Ryan Phillippe and Seth Rogan lol
I'll take that as a compliment lolol
@@FrameVoyager You should, it was just an observation. Great channel BTW.
@@CarcPazu appreciate it!
I’ve a thoriated Nikkor 35mm 1:1.4, if anyone local to (greater) ‘Lotus Land’ is interested shoot me an email.
👀
Lower cost lenses don't cause chromatic aberration. Lo-Fi Horror youtubers do.
👀
@@FrameVoyager **VHS FILTER**
Ok someone on my discord had to explain this to me but now it clicks 🤣🤣🤣
Distorted lofi music starts playing
@@huydeptrai181297 "Majoras Mask on the N64..."
Thorium all day. Built in warming filter makes crappy films look gorgeous.
Super takoomer
I hate to be a pedant but that is NOT how you say super takumar lmao
I kinda figured but online it's said 3 different ways and just said screw it and picked one 😅😅😅 assuming the u isn't long?
and then there is bokeh 😁
@@FrameVoyager I also don’t think “Ektar” rhymes with “Hector”. (Isn’t it “eck-tar”?) What I do know for sure is that “CMOS” is pronounced “sea moss”, not “sea mose” as you said it in another video. ;)
Yeah I know how to say it correctly but I just don't catch myself doing it incorrectly 😅