Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Daenerys | Mother of Dragons
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Part 2 of our series devoted to figuring out if Daenerys will go full Mad Queen in the books
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I don't understand how George can be so chill about them ruining his story.
he got a shit ton of money out of the show I don't think he cares
HBO is still making shows about his material so he can’t just go around saying how bad it is because they are still writing him checks. He refuses to comment much when asked and only says the show is not the books.
Years of working as a script writer in Hollywood prior to publishing ASoIaF. He knew it wouldn’t be a perfect adaptation, and he also knew enough about the business to know how vicious they can be when you’re publicly scornful of what they did to your IP. Navigating Hollywood is its own Game of Thrones, and George is a pretty good player.
Oh but he was not chill at all. That is just what he appears to be.
GRRM and D&D argue all the time about them changing stuff so much in the show, to the point he eventually abandoned the show after S04. He was tired of them.
There is one thing in particular I remember. GRRM forced them to change Jeyne Westerling's name to Talisa in the show saying "they were changing the character so much that it's not even Jeyne Westerling anymore, so I told them to change her name". That along with talking about the "butterfly effect" constantly. Poor man.
He was definitely pissed. Now imagine his face when he saw D&D saying "we got this from George". 🤣
Money
Daenerys is one of the few characters in a song of ice and fire that really care about the small folk , and that is why i LOVE HER.
Facts! 🤙
Except she's just like them.
She claims to be against slavery but has servants and wants to rule over westeros because it's her birthright, how is this different than the slaver masters?
Even Tyrion makes the parallel that there's really not much of a difference between slaves in essos and servants in westeros.
You r not a Targaryen
@@robrick9361 Ah yes, the woman who freed slaves, told her servants they were free to leave if they chose to do so and no one would harm them, is just like the masters 🤣 Did you even watch the show? I'm sorry that you can just accept that shitty last season for what it was, a cheap cop out to end an amazingly complex show cause they got tired of it and wanted to move on. You gotta be some kind of special to think Daenerys is anything like a master.
@@princessshei9171
And you're just flat out stupid to not realise that the show is based off a series of books which are vastly different from the show.
In the books there's entire chapter where Tyrion contemplates how there's not much difference between the slaves of Essos and the servants of Westeros. Many slaves, Tyrion discovers, actually love their master, and most masters are actually really good to their slaves because treating slaves poorly is a taboo.
On a serious note, I feel like I am grieving the death of a real person. They butchered her so bad in 3 episodes, it turned my stomach. I can get down with a heel turn. I probably would of cheered her on if the atrocity she committed would of made sense. All she had to do was fly to the Red Keep and burn it down. What was the point of her just flying street by street killing innocents? The writers didn't even believe their own story because they had to include 2 mins of previous episodes concerning Targaryen mental states. It was trash. After all the heart Emilia put into Dany, this was a spit in the face. To her and all GOT fans. The whole damn ending was nonsensical. I can't even rewatch the series now knowing the dumpster fire we were given.
I guarantee they changed Dany's reception at Qarth just to make the audience think she _might_ not get in the city.
Cheap, meaningless tension for its own sake; A hallmark of bad writing.
Nietzsche's Moustache At the end of the day it’s TV and the budget decides all. Qarth and most of the East are so opulent they’d have been in the red after one episode
PS - I LOVE the art in this video! We're so lucky the fan community has so many talented artists who create beautiful scenes for us to see!
I don't see any other character going out their way to help strange and
disadvantaged people like Dany does. Putting her own goals on hold to do so. Not even Jon and certainly not Sansa, dispite so many people loving them and hating Dany.
Thank you order of the greenhand, Dany doesn't even threaten to burn down Qarth in the books. The fools who watch the show use this as evidence of Dany going crazy in the books too, when it doesn't even happen😀
There is also no kidnapping the dragons plot.
Thats because they don't even read the books
You’re pretty much the only ASOIF account I know I follow because you didn’t try to tell me it was good. Love you guys and I make sure I watch.
Rereading the books for many different reasons, the main one being that I refuse to believe Dany will go mad queen at least in the way it was portrayed in the show. I also refuse to believe this was the original plan by D&D and this was simply done to surprise everybody in the hopes of making people ignore the fact that it was rushed. It’s sad the way they destroyed a character even in her portrayal of being mad that Jon has a bigger claim... she simply wouldn’t react this way.
Nice to be back in the Wolf's Den..
Thank you for another brilliant video! Between this series & Preston’s most recent vid (the Dany part in particular), I’m not sure even George could convince me Dany is a ruthless killer of innocents. And bravo for reminding us that the ”clues” hinting at Dany being a tyrant are D&D fan fiction. 👍
Dany is too awesome to meet the fate she had in the show. I still think there’s a possibility George’s ending for her is similar in that she dies and does something terrible but it will have way more reasoning and isn’t foreshadowed at all in the first three books.
Okay. I am here. Wine in hand. So, Let's do this.
Totally worth the wait for all the quality we’ve come to expect for you guys. This was such an excellent takedown of the hack storytelling that we got even early on
Old meme but top 10 anime betrayals: "GoT when Dany's advisers did everything BUT advise her"
During episode 5, when "Dany did the Damnable Deed", I was in shock and I was watching it with my friend, and she said I was completely frozen and just whispering "no" or "what the fuck" and yeah, maybe I was being a bit dramatic but I didn't sink years into the show and, more importantly, the books, to see my girl done dirty like this. Obviously dumb & dumber didn't read the same books we did (also got my sister to use dumb & dumber lol). Maybe they ordered the books off of ebay or something and they were just a very long fanfic? Because Dany would not kill the people she wanted to free and protect. She wants to make her people happy. And she's so smart, strong and compassionate! Yes, she can be harsh when dealing justice, but their world isn't our modern world. We can't place our modern moral values and laws onto them, because 1) they're fictional 2) they live in a completely different time. We can't judge the people of the "past" on our moral values, because our society has evolved and we're much more empathetic now because of our world history.
Anyway, I'm not trying to write a novel, so I'll end it there before I start going off on a tangent about how the past century and its wars fundamentally changed our views of war and blah blah blah. I might, however, do a PowerPoint presentation called "D&D Did Dany Dirty" and force my family to sit through it.
Thanks for this video! It frustrated me because I remembered that, "yeah, D&D did do that" but it also made me happy, because it reminded me of some of my favorite Dany scenes :) And sorry for my ADD brain, I went on a bit of a rant :D ilysm!
D&D totally didn't read the same books we did. They even said in an inside the episode Dickon was Sam's older brother, basically ignoring the main reason Sam joined the night's watch! The beginning of his whole story arc!!
For the ones who don't remember he joined the night's watch because his father (the one everyone feels so sorry about being burned alive after he committed treason against house Tyrell and being treason punishable by death) threatened to kill him if he didn't. All because he didn't want Sam to be his heir (since he was the oldest son).
So there you go, the attention they paid to the characters. 😒
They last minute decided to turn her crazy
Awsome. Just what I needed as I sit in this car for 3-4 hours.
Order of the Green Hand has a new video, “drops everything”. I’m down!
Okay. After my 3rd watch.. man.. y'all are so on point. THANK Yall for doing this series.. for real. Because people need to know it was just bad writing.
You know, writing "you" is actually shorter than "y'all", which is not only a word that doesn't exist, but is also an expression that only works orally, as it's actually "you" or "you all" pronounced with an accent.
Just write "you", my dude.
@@MichelOsef Na..I enjoy saying y'all.
@@MichelOsef So..I will never conform to your way of doing anything.
If you see yall... just read it as "you".... my dude.
Green Hand is back!!!
So if Quaithe told Dany she should got to Assai, and she still hasn't in the books, I think maybe she will after she escapes the Dothraki where she currently is at the end of A Dance with Dragons. There's no way GRRM would put that in there if she's actually never going to go there.
Appreciate the work you guys are putting into this series, the next one is gonna be crazy I bet
I wonder why George let the second season diverge so much from the books regarding Dany
Incredible video. Can't wait for the next part 😍
We should all remember D&D didn’t read the books.
I seriously don’t get why they, who must not be named, changed her story in season 2 and so drastically. I feel like it’s pretty safe to say that Daenerys will not go Mad Queen in the books, especially with only 2 books left. GRRM, I think, would have needed to make her descent into madness more apparent by the end of a Storm of Swords or at the beginning of Dance but neither has happened. And I can’t see her trip to Vaes Dothrak as the catalyst either. If anything going back there is, I feel, supposed to make her more wise and measured and less naive and to be an encore lesson from book one to trust her instincts.
I mean if Daenerys is supposed to go mad and that is her ending in the books, they who must not be named, and GRRM really did a bad job of setting it up, IMO.
Especially when Cersei has/had all the makings and character set up to be The Mad Queen.
Idk... Honestly I don’t know how George is going to conclude the whole story with just two books. There seems to still be so much story to tell and so many ends to tie up that two books really does not seem like enough.
The real question is : Will the books be ?
Im wondering even when season 2 was written, were the writers and D&D even thinking about Daenerys going mad or a out ending the series in season eight? I doubt they were!
Great video, keep them coming please
I played with my longsword in the Isle of Faces while I watched this with Drogon and Jon Snow
Dan Jordan thats hot bro
Just a piece of advice guys, did you think about labeling these? I mean, this is part 2, but I wouldn't even know or check it out (due to the videos having the same name) if I didn't find the thumbnail a little different
Maybe put it in the title at the end?
Maybe in the thumbnail?
Just somewhere where its more visible
Love the vid btw, keep it up
Isn't that the whole point? That Of course a young teen girl doesn't want to burn a city to the ground. But that potentially it or various other war horrors may be necessary if she can't convince people to follow her and she won't accept that.
Problem with that thought is burning King's Landing would be utterly unneeded when it happened in season 8 (if you take season 8 seriously and I don't advise that). People had already surrendered so they were willing to bend the knee. destroying it would also deprive her of one of the largest cities in her new lands-thus making her weaker. If the intent was to rule via fear or because it was "personal" both of those fail since Cersei had hurt her (by having a friend killed in front of her) yet wasting time destroying a city actually gave Cersei enough time to make an escape attempt. If someone destroys those who don't hurt that person but leaves those who did alive that encourages people to find ways to hurt that person further in order to increase the odds of being in the surviving group. That is not rule through fear but creating even less stability.
Also the Northmen had been suspicious of her yet they gained respect for her afterwards so it was working-perhaps not in the case of Sansa but in their character damaging ways D and D decided to make Sansa a lost cause who had no ability to judge others on their actions in spite of Sansa being declared smart. Then again Sansa was honest enough to admit she didn't know how to use a dagger so..
OOTGH !!!
Awesome new art in this one!
Another great installment. I don't think D&D were thinking at this stage that they were going to make Dany go mad. They just took some odd detours in Season 2.
May all the gods bless you for the salvation of our Dragon Queen. 🐉🐉🐉🔥🔥🔥
Did anyone notice Dany’s scout rider described Qarth as a "Moon Maiden"? The goddess worshipped by Sailors? Makes me wonder if the Gods in the Faceless Men’s HQ signify the cities they’re allied with. Moon Maiden = Qarth. Lion of Night = YiTi / Qohor, Pale Child = Lys, Merling King = Iron Islands
Is there any significance to the soldiers that Xaro gave her? Some of their colours correspond to the Emperors of The Great Empire of the Dawn (don't remember the colours right now).
Oooh, could be. I know some of the Emperors were tourmaline, jade, pearl, amythyst, opal...can't remember the rest. I think you could be on to something, though
Thanks for this indepth look at Daenerys post-HBO. I really hope you'll do the same with all the characters!
Justice!!!
Just like the only one it matters!
The justice of The Order Of The Green Hand
Please do a Visions in the House of the Undying video! It would be sublime.
Oh I wished for this video...
A Clash of Kino
Dany was jealous of Missandei, she wanted Grey Worms hot pocket
Does anyone think the last episode of Game of Thrones would have been better if after Drogon picked up Daenerys dead body he lowered his wing and Jon climbed on and left with them. It would have maybe gave a payoff to Jon being a Targaryen. I don’t like how the whole payoff to Jon being a Targaryen is to help Dany go mad...
Where can I get the comic shown during ‘Quhuru’ scene? 21:03
m.comixology.com/George-R-R-Martins-A-Clash-Of-Kings-The-Comic-Book-14/digital-comic/688570
This video was awesome!
When did Essos get gunpowder & cannons?? At about 16:18 when you said Dany sent her blood riders to Qarth's docks you have a picture of a galleon 3 cannon levels high.
oops. 4 cannons high
I hope not, we all know that the Tree will be King. The House of the Undying showed different visions after drinking Shade of the Evening.
Still disappointed the women weren't dressed correctly in Qarth. Wink wink. Thanks for the video as always.
Dany's season 2 plot is the worst of the season, has nothing in common with her 5 chapters from ACOK which are far superior. I do think there is a chance Dany may go off the rails near the end of the books but the reasons will be vastly different and more understandable. She does realise at the end of ADWD that her more peaceful methods in Meereen aren't working and thinks that she must be more fierce going forward. I imagine Red Priests from Volantis may fill her head with notions of being a messiah, and considering the things that have happened to her in her journey she may buy into that a little. And I imagine Aegon stealing her thunder by invading Westeros before her, and maybe even stealing one of her dragons, could contribute to her deterioration. But even so, with all of this in mind, I have a hard time believing she'll just burn King's Landing in the same manner she did in the shit show that was GoT season 8.
I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that NONE of the scenes in the show bear ANY resemblance to her scenes in the book, but the ones that are similar do vary A LOT.
which comics are those?
998-674=324 = heliotropium, number of species of a flower named after a heliotrope... Easiest defintion for a heliotrope is a combition.....just like this story.....you guys will get there eventually. Just a clue, to azor ahai, Something that was promised is something that never came to be.....
Douche & Douche really underestimated and misunderstood Dany. Book Dany is far superior to show Dany.
It’s been a real pleasure going over your work again. I don’t know if you still even respond to comments on videos this old, but do you guys really think D&D are just dumb or that they altered the story in such a way as to not spoil it for the readers? I lean towards the latter, but you two put together a good argument, as always, for the former. Can’t wait to see what happens… ✌🏽
Loaded with goodies. Lol
the last quote of GRRM is very intersting: ...not to bring back Lady Stoneheart. That was probably the FIRST major diversion of the show from the books..." so for me that means that GRRM was fine with the way D&D portrayed Dany in season 2 and that means that she is going mad in the end.
This is fine and all but you won't find answer in material we have. I have seen in real life people going from not even hurting a fly to a monster. You just need that snap moment and show did horrible job setting it up. Two days ago we had a mother killing 3 year old daughter then killing herself. Everyone says he was great and they had good marriage. But snap moment have been losing pregnancy, that led to a depression leading to this.
Will she end up crazy in he books? Only GRRM knows. But if you follow how listening to prophecies worked for every character in the books, well she might.
Damn I wish quaithe stuck around in the show
Rhaegal should be named for Rhaego not Rhaegar. Daenerys lost Rhaego not Rhaegar. Viserys woke the dragons and Viserion will lay eggs to wake dragons once again.
Red Waste is where a dragon skeleton same size as Vhagar is found and it is where Lyseni Doreah dies but not Daenerys. But I think Daenerys building a kingdom from Red Waste would be infinitely better than anything.
I think people are focusing too much on D&D's meme-ification of Dany as the "Mad Queen," just as they contrived a showdown between the Clegane brothers solely because the meme of "Cleganebowl" essentially willed itself into existence. Dany's dark turn in the books isn't about madness, it's precisely to do with all the praise you heap upon her. Not to say that liking Dany is a bad thing, but if you look at how much AGOT-ACOK draw on Frank Herbert's Dune, then I'd bet $1,000 that Dany is designed on the same framework as Herbert's criticism of hero worship, and his warnings of surrendering autonomy to charismatic leaders. D&D just aren't good enough to handle that kind of theme, and so their Dany is villainous, and must be put down. A Lenny-fication of Dany. But in Dune, it's not that Paul, the protagonist you've come to care about (who you want to see succeed in avenging his family and bringing down the corrupt adversaries who destroyed his house), is evil, it's that Herbert is warning you about giving up the will of the people solely because a charismatic messiah-like figure clothed in immense power and mythical imagery is a slippery slope towards tyranny and mass suffering.
I think this is what Dany is meant to be, only instead of Paul's character arc within a single book, Dany's is case study examined over the course of an entire series. D&D just water it down because they genuinely can't bring that to life, and that's why we get a diluted Tyrion equating the crucifixion of child-murdering slavers to a red flag that war crimes were always where all of this was heading. Not so. Not so.
She wants to be the next Aegon V.
OK so, one thing. There's a lot of words being thrown around like crazy and insane. In terms of psychiatry these are archaic words that don't really mean anything anymore. Frankly it's a little insulting to people who suffer from mental illness. Nobody has a perfect personality. Everyone carries scars from their lives which effects their thinking. I think both OotGH and people in the comments need to define what they mean by crazy or insane. Are we talking psychosis? That's seeing things that aren't really there or paranoia and is a product of various illnesses. Are we talking antisocial personality disorder? I suspect that is what you're talking about. That's a lack of empathy combined with narcissism, something that I didn't see in the show Dany at all. Although she is in my opinion a little narcissistic and entitled. Personally I'd go with borderline personality disorder for show Dany. It's a disorder where people feel emotions both positive and negative in an exaggerated state. This can make people quicker to rage rather than just feeling angry. On the flip side the same people can be extremely empathetic and caring because they are more sensitive to other people's emotions too. This extreme dichotomy of behaviours often leads them to see themselves as two people a good person and a bad person, this is false as there are actually four distinct modes that they can slip in and out of. Having a conversation with a borderline can be very confusing because you're never quite sure which one you're dealing with. Personally I feel this best fits the show character. In the books less so, it's a bit more hit and miss, some things would fit perfectly other traits would be glaringly missing like an extreme sense of guilt when they do hurt people. On the other hand I suppose book dany does have two different sides of herself which are a little unconnected. The little girl side who doesn't want any of the responsibility and just wants the house with the red door and the other side which does feel entitled to rule and thinks she knows what's best for everyone.
So whaddaya mean by crazy?
@Stannis Baratheon Yep, a bit like your Stannis, when he burns his daughter in the books too, he needs to be know as a scumbag and psycho mad dog
@Stannis Baratheon STFU Stannis Stan, your character doesn't even deserve a meation. Shit in the books , shit on the show, he did burn alive prisoners dragonstone tho, that's all that needs to be said about Stannis
Maybe it's just me but daenerys walking into the flames is pretty mad
Thomas Mudd did you watch the first video? It’s pretty well explained.
@@j0j01192 I did, still think it's crazy. Saying that i don't say she will become the mad Queen and agree that d&d did her dirty. But i can see her overreacting if the smallfolk kills a dragon like in the dotd.
@The Order if the Green Hand: That's just your opinion man! Show is perfect! You are just angry white long man bad! Why do you even care? Spider man is coming out soon!
Honestly, just thank you!
One of my Biggest Problems With Daenerys In The Show is she Acts Like An Entitled Brat who Believes She Should Get Everything Because Of Her Name
I'm rereading a clash of kings right now so the timing of this video is perfect. I never realized how badly they fucked up Dany's arc even this early into the show.
Yes, the show gets even worse when I started reading the books. 😅
@@leonievw2466 yea even stuff as small as how unintimidating the haunted forest looked and the fact that there was no snow on the ground when Ned Stark beheaded Gared bothered me the first time I rewatched the show after reading the books.
Thank you Order of the Greenhand. I need this because I hated season 8 and what they did to Dany and several other characters.
Dany is not crazy and will not be. She becomes a true dragon. The whole foreshadowing aims at her choosing fire and blood (Last Chapter in ADWD) and that does not mean that she will go insane, there is a difference. She probably gets more violent, extremly grey and maybe in some form a villain. But it is also quite possible that she will only do the things necessary to end the slavery and the same goes for whatever will happen in westeros. We have to wait and see what it means for her to choose fire and blood. But so far, there was no sign that she was ready to commit genocide and no sign that she is evil in any way. She has a strong sense of right and wrong. She is not power hungry if you really paying attention to her character you know how stupid that statement is. She feels regret, remorse and pain. And these are proof against insanity. she really wants to help people because she has so much compassion for innocent people and their pain. She has always directed her anger against people who deserve it, like Arya. What would Arya have done if she had seen 163 crucified and decayed fucking CHILDREN at every milestone? So I would have had a tremendous anger on the masters too. I know its asoiaf and not hollywood but I really think that dany has earned more than just driven mad and then killed in a horrible way. Especially after what she did for the sick outside the gates of Mereen. That was just amazing and an example where George showed us who she really is. If you make her choose the throne (power) or the people she would choose the people and she has already made that decision when she decided to stay in Mereen.
Just about everything she has ever done was for the people and for there well and yes, it often fails. She makes serious mistakes. But that does not change her good intentions. She has refused to go to Westeros because of the people and she really just wants happiness, a Home and Piece (the House with the red door) and unfortunately she thinks because of everything she was told that she finds it in westeros. When she decides to stay in Mereen, she does not know if she ever goes to Westeros, so she puts the people before her own interest and that shows how good she is. She has an extreme strength and that with 14 years, maybe her character is a bit boring at times but all in all extremely fascinating and awesome. I honestly can not understand how to HATE Dany.
it makes me sad that so many do.
Dumb & Dumber are simply hacks with no respect for the whole franchise. The shit in the end makes no sense and the books will be in my opinion almost completely different.
All they wanted to do was subverting our expectations over and over again no matter how stupid it is. I would have liked to see the Inside the episode video for Episode 6. I was curious about how they are trying to justify the shit. I still can not believe this piece of Shit Sansa has become queen. And Bran as king is like making Gandalf King in Lord of the Rings, only that Gandalf was useful.
FUCK THAT SHOW
By the way you are awesome !! clearly one of the best asoiaf channel on youtube. you guys have opened my eyes on so many things, your theories are almost all incredible and many make too much sense to be wrong. thanks that you have dubbed d & d dumb & dumber!!!
Keep it up!!
And sorry for that english.
At least whether she goes crazy or not, GRRM will do the arc justice. But Dany in the show was definitely not crazy.
Alright, one, Day is going to go crazy, we've already gotten confirmation that the books end very much the same. Second, the only reason in the books at show, that Dany hasn't burned several cities to the ground is because other people keep telling her not to, that's books and show right there. Third, Dany has literally never been the good guy, she's been on the white side of grey but never good, feeding people to her dragons, locking them in a vault to starve to death, crucifying them and burning people. Don't give a shit what your reasons are, all that shit is evil, or black side of grey. She's never been anything but a spoiled little girl that also happens to have dragons and there are a bunch of people that failed to see this coming for some incomprehensible reason. She was never the white knight you claim, no character, books or shows is a good guy, not one of them and the illusion that there are is you projecting your desires onto a book and television series that doesn't give a shit about anyone's feelings or their desire for a good guy/bad guy dynamic.
@@levilandes1719 Never read so much BS in my life😀, clearly you haven't read the books because you only give weak examples which were made up on the show.
YOLOSWAGERBOY
You should be more sorry for your name.
@@levilandes1719 there is no confirmation the books well end the same, if anything GRRM confirmed it will be the same in some ways and different in others. He didn't say how it will be the same or different.
🧤 thank you for pointing out once again how different the book is from the show. Yet most people swear that they are one in the same and will share the same ending. #NotMyDany
At 1:40 is epic.... goes onto, "This, this, this, this this, and this..." never happened in S2.
GOT Therapy.
Season 2 of GoT: where Mad Queen theorists point to when tooting their horns. In all the opinion pieces that have popped up since the show ended, they only point to her show storyline. There's plenty in both books and show to suggest Cersei is on a course towards becoming a Mad Queen, but by Season 7, she suddenly becomes a competent monarch.
Oh Dany, look how they butchered my girl! Let The Order of the Greenhand give her justice.
Sophisticated. Flow “look how they massacred my boy.”
@@LiquidSwan yes!!
Liquid Swan I said butchered because her character was butchered. I know the line from Godfather. Lol thanks anyway!
I just want daenerys to find a house with a red door and a lemon three and live the rest of her life there.
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
I think that would be her happiest ending. I hope she ends up there eventually but I'm not sure she will
With Dario..
That Dany died in the Dothraki Sea. She wants to paint all the doors of Westeros red and have a fire lit in every window.
That'd be awesome.
She can. Ive redone s8, so she is alive. Video is on my channel.
Daenerys is not mad, she might be ruthless at times but she has never shown traits of madness...
She is someone who deals with Justice with a heavy hand, because she has been in the receiving end...
Dumb and Dumber never knew Daenerys nor did they try.
@WSG Man at that point she's been stranded in the desert, she hasn't eaten, she hasn't had contact with people for a while... That is not being mad, that's being slightly delirant which happens to most people alone in the desert for long periods of time.
Although Dany herself thinks differently. She wonders quite a few times in the books if she is going mad. Although, anyone will tell you a madman will deny his insanity. Still, it is at least partially setup as a question. After all, when a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin and the world holds its breath.
All Targaryens who reign comfortably were ruthless but practical prior to going off....Aegon lost 1 dragon and 1 wife and then burned every castle in Dorne multiple times as a response...Jaehaerys is one of the few who did not have to battle to keep his throne..Aerys was legit crazed but everyone knew what was really going on. The king knew his time was ticking. Daenerys going off never reaches the level of severity as her father or Aegon
You dont have to be "mad" to do something crazy or irrational.
@@jski718 Uh huh.
The one good thing about the show butchering Dany and Stannis is that I've started to notice some more parallels between the characters and what George values in a ruler.
Both characters have a strong symbolic association with fire. Both characters were a party to the death of a greedy sibling. Both characters adhere to a strong moral framework. Both characters have an acute sense of justice and aren't shy about dealing harsh penalties when the need calls for it. Both characters suffer devistating setbacks relatively early in their arcs. Both characters pivot and seek to garner legitimacy by taking up smaller causes which don't directly benefit them in the short term. Etc.
Both are supported by the red priests.
I haven't read all the books yet so I had no idea until this episode just how much of a disservice the show writers did to Dany's character.
I want the real Daenerys Stormborne
>shows season 2 Dany
I said the REAL Daenerys Stormborne
>Shows clash of kings Dany
Perfection
Badass name
@@undeadpolo5796 Thanks~
I always found it weird that she asked Doreah to sex herself out for information.
Set that record straight Sir and Lady....loving this right here....hating how they did my Khaleesi
Salvation! I always hated Daenerys´ Season 2 plot as it differed so vastly from the books. I cannot understand how any sane book reader can think that Dany will go crazy. The show watchers... well they got what D&D did to Danys Arc but even half of them don´t buy it.
tiamat even the show watchers don’t get it. Just because other characters continuously say she can’t become her father or resembles her father when she disagrees with them doesn’t mean she will. Every character in the show did similar things but for some reason she was held to higher standards. At least she fought for the people without a voice and gave them the strength to continue fighting for themselves, I didn’t see others do that except for MAYBE Jon with the wildlings.
"The Dragon does not cry."
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you for going into depth about Qarth. That part of Daenerys's story is pivotal to her character arc. I do see her ruthlessness taking root in that chapter, and I agree that there is no indicator pointing to the legendary Targaryen madness. Superb job!
Your video also correlates with the Dragon Demands on how Dumb and Dumber assassinated awesome characters to fulfill their half-assed vision of story-telling.
Yeah, I am also re-reading The books and realized that D&D have a poor understanding of George books.
The more I think about it the more I wonder whether Benioff & Weiss are humping off of Rian Johnson, or was Rian Johnson humping off of Benioff and Weiss?
I'm glad you've gone through this analysis. I think a lot of people are just assuming that the show is the real story simply because they can visualize it better. For show watchers that's understandable, but for book readers its unforgivable.
I had always before season 7 believed that Daenerys was one of, if not the, smartest characters in ASOIAF. Only Arya and Tyrion come close. You have clearly demonstrated why this is so. The show fails utterly in demonstrating her true genius, save the one time she conquers Astapor. Why Benioff and Weiss change her character so much I couldn't say, though I suspect dislike probably has a lot to do with it. From the beginning the two have played favorites and their portrayal of characters always seems based on their own personal opinions of them. Contrary to what I think you are suggesting, I doubt very much that Benioff and Weiss had any idea of how the show would end in season 2. The visions in the House of the Undying in the show are nicely ambiguous, designed specifically to allow them to move in whatever direction they ultimately chose. I suspect at the time they were originally planning on the WW being the ones who destroyed KL. Thus the snow. The only thing I think they were sure of was that Dany was NOT going to be Queen of Westeros. At least not in that way.
You are right.
D&D didn't know the ending untill later when they knew the show would surpass the books and they had to sit down with GRRM, for him to reveal some secrets and the major points of his ending. Bran being king is unfortunately one of them. They didn't say anything about Dany though. Even if she becomes a villain, I'm certain won't be like the show. That whole circus is totally not George's style.
Besides George admitted to the press he had trouble writing Winds of winter because he didn't know himself how to get to the ending. So how could dumb and dumber??! At the season 8 première gala George also said he didn't know how D&D decided to end their show despite their talk years ago.
The script for season 2 is available on the internet. They wrote that it was SNOW! It was foreshadowing the fight with the white walkers.
But I guess that was to obvious so they decided to "subvert expectations" at the end.
What dumbasses..!!! 😒
I'm pretty sure D&D had it out for Dany since the begining. It's like they went out of their way to make her as unsympathetic and unlikeable as they could while maintaining plausible deniability.
Finally someone defending Daenerys. She gets so much hate for no discernable reason other than "she thinks she's so good but she isn't". That's pretty much 99% of people, folks.
El Rojales characters like Dany get the most hate because they are the type of characters that resemble us the most.
@@j0j01192 that seems pretty accurate.
D&D are drunken fratboys who (as what their types do) conned an intelligent and good man into adapting his magnum opus. This could have been close to or the same level of peter jackson's lotr. If only there were showrunners who had the passion Jackson gave tolkien's lotr.
I doubt they planned that far in advance. The Dragon Demands as well documented information that they don't plan in advance at all, and often changed things at last minutes
I am starting to believe that George only told D&D that Danny would burn KL and they jump to the conclusion that she was crazy instead of thinking that it was a accident.
Possibly!
I’m so happy now I have something interesting to watch
I see an Order of the Green Hand video and I have to stop what I am doing to watch it!
The show really dumbed Dany down and that's what bothers me the most I think. Made her unwise and entitled. Why do they think what they did was more clever than what GRRM wrote? They're just Hollywood hacks and I don't get why Hollywood hasn't figured it out yet that all of their stories have become boring and predictable and not that deep and people who watched GOT were craving something deep and intellectual, only to have D&D ruin it halfway through. They should've had something in the contract that said George could fire them at any time once they stopped faithfully adapting the books.
9:00 what is the symbolism of the peach for Dany? It’s interesting that the peach arises as a symbol in Stannis and Renly’s story as well
Oh, that's a great catch ! I'm curious
Since the horror of a season finale ended I needed to go back to the books to wash out the garbage that it was. Im in a Storm of Swords and I came across this in a Dany chapter. “I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was suck a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldnt have done that. He wasnt just my brother, he was my King. Why do the gods make Kings and Queens, if not to protect the ones who cant protect themselves.” “ Justice...thats what Kings are for.”
"...he was my brother and my king"......and yet she felt little to no pain nor remorse when he died.
Yes, she IS screwed up in there. Anyone growing up in her circumstances likely would be, too. So the far better Q is: Well, why WOULDN'T she be going psycho?
@@shaft9000Yes, she did. She mourned that miserable, pitiful piece of shit even after he threatened to take her baby out of her womb with a sword. That's why when she later smiled, her maids told her that it was the first time they saw her smiling after her brother's death, which means that that hadn't happened in a while. Remorse? I have no idea why she should have felt remorse. I have no idea why she should have felt any bad for the death of the man who threatened to kill her unborn child and abused her for years, but she did nonetheless.
@@shaft9000d she has every right not to feel pain and remorse for such an idiotic abusive brother. Next.
Dany just forgot she wasn't crazy.
You're doing the Old Gods' work with this series. Since you are looking at the show and comparing it with the books, it may be interesting to look at Dany in the episodes GRRM has written for the show.
In the first season he wrote the 8th episode. In the episode she stopped Drogo's khalasar from raping captured women by forcing them to marry them rather than enslave them.
In the second season he wrote the battle of Blackwater, which didn't feature Dany.
In the third season he wrote the episode that shows Dany insisting on freeing the slaves of Yunkai by capturing the city, despite it not holding any strategic value.
The episode GRRM wrote in the fourth season didn't feature Dany either.
I think it's interesting the episode he wrote in the third season is the biggest counterpoint against Danys turn in season 8. Makes you wonder why people would even pose the theory Dany will turn evil in the same way in the books as she did in the show.
isn't there an interview where d&d basically said that dany going nuts was just something they decided sort of on a whim? or am i mistaken?
it certainly seems possible...we pay more attention to George interviews than theirs, but if it exists, m'lady will certainly find it...as far as I know, neither of them have poked their head out of the hole they're hiding in since the season aired
That would be so maddening.... you can’t just decide these things on a whim, especially for a character like Dany. She’s probably one of the most iconic characters out there.
that makes things worse! God I hate this guys -.-
I don't think they said that, though I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened! In the inside the episode they basically said that about Arya killing the night king. So you may be thinking of that
No...that was Arya killing the night king. What we know(which is very little) is that bran will become king
Let's do this!
(On the ASOIAF forum, I tried summarising Dany's show arc. I had to give up making sense as a bad job and go for parody. I wonder why?)
Welcome back to the wolf’s den, internet people. And thanks for having us OotGH.
Just what I needed on my Wednesday night. Thanks guys 😍😍😍😍