My personal outlook is that Modular is like gardening. It can happen in a window box or across an acre of land. How you use your space, what you plant and where or what you plant next too is neither right or wrong. It can be informed or experimental. It can be laboured over or happened across. Modular is an ever-changing, evolving organic process. Patch, tweak, repeat. There's no end goal. And how much or how little kit you have is irrelevant. I've seen racks and racks of kit that sound nothing more like a skeleton masturbating in a biscuit tin, whereas others with very few but curated modules produced rhythmically rich and textured tracks. Finally, it's worth mentioning that the fast-growing modular community is a diverse, creative, informed, warm and welcoming one.
To many people saying “this is the reason for this and that”, everyone has their own reasons for doing things, sometimes they have common reasons. I personally got into modular because I thought it looked fun and I really liked the sounds the people in the videos I was watching were getting. I couldn’t afford it, I still can’t afford it, but I make it work. DIY is a great way to go and it leads to better knowledge of electronics and music in general. You people are ALL right!! Why? Because you each have your own reasons for either staying away from or getting into modular. All of your points are valid, at least for yourselves.
About Myth 1: expensiveness? Google/watch-vids-about/download “VCV Rack”. For those who don’t know, it’s a big, FREE, and decent modular sandbox for Pc AND Mac. ...with a huge library of modules ranging from impossible-in-the-real-world to complete hardware emulation of real world modules from the likes of Befaco, Mutable Instruments, Music Thing, etc. I watched all these videos and converted from the guitar/pedal world to the eurorack world, but didn’t know about VCV rack until I’d already started my own Eurorack rig. I wish I’d played around in VCV first to figure out what really interested me in modular so I could tailor my purchases to match/chase that.
Traditional music is like blazing a trail up a mountain; once completed, everyone can follow the same trail, and have the same experience. Modular music is like a walk in the woods; you wander, looking behind every tree, and under every rock. Once in a while you discover something truly wonderful; you enjoy it for the moment, and then move on. You will find many beautiful moments, but you'll never see things exactly the same way twice.
cksample3 Agreed. A counter argument is to ask yourself how much a small pedalboard made from the pedals Knobs usually exhibits would cost. Three Chase Bliss pedals would put you into the same ballpark. Just like all things, there are alternative methods to getting similar things, from DIY to buying used to using alternative modules/pedals. As they said in the video, it can be expensive but it doesn’t have to be and, ultimately, you get something tailored to you. Whether that’s worth the expense is up to you.
Jean-Pierre Joubert I don’t think there is a comparable cheap road into modular. Pedals can be very self contained and there are numerous models that are sub 100. Eurorack you have to have a power supply and rails or a case -$150 then at least 3 modules to really be in a good place to start experimenting. Even if you were to be conservative and aim for sub $100 modules you are already pushing $500 when you roll in the need for patch cables. If you go semimodular to get started you are still starting out at around $500-600. It’s a steeper entry price is my point.
This is the video in this series that’s inspired me the most to eventually get into modular. Not now because i’m a broke college student, but one day i’d love to have a small modular system and a semi-modular synth like the 0-Coast.
love this serie, I just know the existence of modular but I've been always scared by all the misconception you've talked about. Now I'm really curious to dig in this world, so thank you!
I'm slowly piecing my first 84hp rack together, taking advantage of Reverb to hunt for the modules I' researched. I have a clear idea of what I want to do, have a short list of voices and needed modules, clocks, logic sequencers to get me there, but at basic modules the list has changed multiple times.
Love these videos so much. Saying Modular isn't expensive isn't entirely true... But saying it isn't expensive in relation to music gear as a whole is true! A decent EQ will cost ~ $500US and up and you'll probably want a couple of those if you're going to build a studio. And a compressor. And an FX unit... And some microphones... You buy what you can afford! I work a part time job and still put away enough money to buy about a module per month or two. Also computers are great as well! But like modular they are not for everyone. I have a shit laptop so I can have a nice modular! Give and take! Don't judge! Be creative! :)
I agree with a lot of your view points on the subject and I love the new direction of your new videos. Maybe the next series should be certain modules almost in the same format of your pedal videos. I ended up taking the tabletop route and getting mostly elektron gear for my synth set up. Your videos have been extremely entertaining throughout the last few years. Cheers.
i appreciate that y'all are getting into the discussion with this one. personally what's kept me excited about this series has been commenters reccomending free, open-source tools to do modular synthesis on a computer, like Automatonism and VCV Rack, which i've been using to follow along at home. i'm a little surprised these options didn't get mentioned tbh
Thank you for therapy. What i really noticed is that there are essential modules, in most cases people think about them last. Essential are modules without which your modular cannot work. 1) good power supply. 2) utility that covers your requirements ( interfacing, mixing, multiples, clock, dividers, etc) 3) sound sources. 4) processing, triggering, logic, etc. the thing is, part of these features might be internal or external. What is bad for noobs : too much freedom. You should know really well what you are doing. Option for noobs: get semi modular, or ready assembled ready-to-go kit. I’m not gonna buy eurorack in nearest future, i’ll spend some money on learning and training.
Cookie Monster Good points. If you are curious about it I would suggest using VCV Rack, which is free and has replications of many actual Eurorack units. It’s free and allows you to see what you might like in modular, if it’s for you or not, all without expense beyond the computer you probably already have.
Don't spend your money on learning and training. Take a VCV Rack. It's free. It's modular. It will give you perfect example of what you might get out of modular, how to patch things, how to not get what you want, how to get great things that you didn't want.. When you feel comfortable with VCV and patching, you might or might not turn to hardware modular. Modular is not magic that will turn your music into money. It's another instrument. On the other hand, for me, modular is a great way to spend time. I build the modules (DIY path) and have as much fun doing that, as when playing with it. Did I make great music? Not at all. Never made even one song. Do I regret the money I've put into modular - again, not at all. I love discovering sounds that I can get from my racks, like some people love sounds from their acoustic instruments. Anyway, don't think that modular is a) magic wand and b) necessity.
Thank you Marko, i know about VCV rack, and someday i’ll try it. When i speak about learning, i mean general music theory, the fundamentals, rhythms, chords, etc. I have quite decent non-modular hardware that is good both for newbies and pros, i could spend years doing everything intuitively, but i don’t have much time. Fundamental knowledge is hardware independent. As for modular - i like the concept, i like to solder, to play with knobs, switches, buttons, so as a human with technical background i don’t think i get a lot of problems with building and using modular setup. Modular is a tool for sound sculpting, i think i’ll go and learn art itself first.
Every individual component that I have looked at is 400-500us. That’s expensive considering I would want at least 3 modules and then a box and so on. That’s a pretty nice pedal board!!! I still am intrigued by all of this and will continue to watch and dream! Thank you knobs!!!!!
phish4me1999 You may be looking at Lots of modules from Doepfer, Pittsburgh Modular, 2HP and Erica Synths are $100 and less. Used modules are typically 20% cheaper. A Happy Ending Kit can be found for $120-ish for a rack. You can also save with DIY, and there’s no law that says you *need* everything to get started, that you can’t add modules over time. There are ways to mitigate cost but, like anything in life, it takes time, research, and knowing where to look. I’d suggest you check out places like Reverb, modular selling groups on Facebook for better pricing, and Modulargrid.net to help you find solutions and alternatives to your needs.
People that defend modular constantly forget how niche the world of synthesizers actually is. Just for reference, the Yamaha DX7, which is considered the best selling synth of all time, sold a total of 100,000 units. Now compare that with say, how many guitars, basses, etc. are sold by comparison. You can't simply state that modular is cheap when most people nowadays have to think if they want to spend 500 bucks on a synth made by Korg, Novation, etc. and these same companies are fighting tooth and nail in that price bracket because people simply are not willing to pay more than that. Also, you should really learn how synths work before getting into modular, as many modular people can and will lead you into mistakes that will cost you a lot of money sometimes.
@@tmbrwn Don't tell me you seriously think that these cost that much money because they are as good as their price tag implies. They cost that much because these companies don't sell many units. Even if you take a large company as an example, there's a reason why Korg has to sell the King Korg for 1 grand and can do the Monologue for 300 bucks. Many people who want to have a synth just to fiddle around with will not spend that much money on it. What if they don't like it? Moreso, Behringer will sell many more Model D units than Moog will sell Voyagers as well. As I stated earlier the world of synthesizes is very small in comparison to everything else. You can count sales on a guy like Dave Smith in the hundreds, not even thousands. I wouldn't count Clavia selling even close to 10 thousand Nord Stages as well. These companies can't eat the cost or make them cheap because there's no demand enough for that.
As someone currently involved in both modular and stand alone hardware (and software) synth industry I will say this.. Those dx7 numbers are outdated. Severely. Also when you take into account the vst to hardware transition market, those numbers really get skewed. (Don't even ask me about the numbers of torrented pirate synths).... Synths and modular are becoming far more common place than they were throughout the 80's 90's. Thay being said it still pales by comparison to snare Drum sales lol.
CrimSun @i really agree with the fact that people should build a solid experience with Classic synth before going the rabbit hole,a lot of people are doing basic stuff with modulars, easily accomplished with other synth, in fact modular is heaven for bleeps and bloops, i starter modular because other synth could not have euclidean sequencers, waveshapers,morphable oscillators, modulated modulators and so on, i started with a deadcheap neutron semi, then dfam then a case and second hand modules, i started really cheap ,but ultimately i was sure it was for me, ( also i started with softube modular and vcv to learn how to patch before spending a single coin )
The sounds that start at about 1:55, that interests me greatly. What types of gear would be good to get started with to go in that direction? Is guitar involved? (if so that's fine with me) Not looking to know exactly how you did it, but face me in the right direction if you can please. I would really like DIY kits, but I'm sure some premade modules will end up in my hands. These videos have been extremely enjoyable and helpful. For me, it IS time to modular.
knobs, where did you get that old radio-ish type audio at the beginning? It’s so fookin cool also I love all your videos man. p.s. what’s the small little wood euro rack case you use?
To all the people out there saying that modular is priced similarly to classical instruments and boutique guitars, consider it this way: for many people, classical instruments and expensive electric guitars are historically the domain of the bourgeois, whilst electronic music post 1970 is typically working class. The revival of modular and expensive analogue synthesisers is difficult for so many because it has a certain exclusivity (minus things like vcvrack and reaktor etc.) that essentially adds an element of social mobility to a whole genre of music. Why should the cost of an instrument preclude a whole class of people from accessing the ability to create a certain type of music?
I can think of only two things that would make someone decide to go modular way: 1. Do you need it? 2. Do you like it? I, personally don't need it. Modular is, in essence, a synthesizer. How often do you hear a song and focus on synth? Synth is usually just one of many instruments used in a song, so is it analog, or emulated in software - you mostly won't notice in the end result, in the song. Software got really good in emulating analog instruments lately that you'll very rarely justify the cost of an analog synth by the absolute need for that type of sound in your work. Also, bare in mind that a lot of modules in eurorack are digital. People call it hardware VSTs. And their sound is usually 16-bit 44kHz, which is obsolete in modern productions. The latter question is as relevant as the first one. I, personally, like it. I like its approach to experimentation. I like the interface, I like the sound of those filters and ease with which you can change things and get surprising results.
Working class was buying a cheap guitar. Versatile electronic musical instruments cost 5 or 6 figures well into the eighties. I only got to use one by taking a university course. Even the cheap mono synths that arrived in the seventies were VERY expensive to most musicians. I still can't afford a Prophet LOL.
I am afraid its really addictive and yes it costs as much as a car. And you can make the same sounds with spending 150 for a volca modular or 400 for a behringer neutron and korg SQ 1. Ii bought a volca modular to get a taste and three months later had filled 280 HP. And not even scratched on the surface of the volca modular. or the 0-Coast and 0-ctrl, or the behringer Neutron that came on the side. So be sure you can and want afford it.
East Coast/NY/New England/Moog or European school synthesis is not bleep and bloops! Walter/Wendy Carlos or Isao Tomita or Klaus Schulze (and a bit later JM Jarre) proved it... there are many ways to modular synthesis...
In the grand scheme of things, modular is not really any more expensive than classical instruments. People just tend to have unrealistic expectations of just how niche modular synthesis is. It is nowhere near the popularity level of guitars and fixed architecture synths. These are the typical prices you will pay for a product that will never be sold to or even seen by the vast majority of the population.
@yutr7o6856e7d68f9g The same argument could be made in the other direction with software synths. Especially today where we have access to things like VCV rack Supercollider and Puredata where the sound quality is hardly a difference, the barrier for entry is very low to be completely frank. Again, modular synthesis is still quite a ways away from being as known as the trumpet or the violin. It's important to consider that the average person would not even know what a modular synth even is, and yet they can recognize the majority of popular classical instruments.
@yutr7o6856e7d68f9g Yes, indeed the claim is false. You need a lot more cash to get a decent start with modular than most other instruments. Even a small semi-modular starter set is 2x or 6x the cost of a very good electric guitar.
@yutr7o6856e7d68f9g Exaggeration of the affordability of student level instruments aside, modular cannot be compared that way, because in essence, modular is part of the high end of synthesizers. That is why there doesn't really exist the variety of price points - at least, not enough of a variety to make a significant difference (Doepfer is less expensive, but not by much). Very few people learn to play a new instrument on an expensive, high end instrument. But people usually find a way to afford the high end when they reach the point where they feel they can justify the expense. Modular is a little different, because there is more learning involved - it isn't simply a better version of a fixed architecture synth - but semi-modular can help with that, at a much more reasonable price point. I am not trying to argue that modular isn't expensive; it absolutely is, just as any high end instrument is. The question is whether or not it is unreasonably so. Considering the boutique nature of modular, I would say no. If more big companies other than Roland decided to get into modular, I'm sure their prices would be lower than the boutique companies, moreso if modular becomes more popular, and they can produce at higher volumes.
@@RobinParmar You can get a Behringer Neutron and a decent pair of headphones for ~$400-450. If you need a keyboard controller, then throw in another $50-100 for a cheap one (this is supposed to be a starter set after all, not a great set). 1/2 that would be $200-275. 1/6 would be $67-92. Slightly more expensive would be the Make Noise 0-Coast. That, plus a Sennheiser HD-280, plus an Arturia KeyStep, is about $720. 1/2 that would be $360, and 1/6 would be $120. What kind of "very good electric guitar" do you expect to buy at those price points?
@@jc3drums916 Check out other videos right here on UA-cam where guitarists evaluate cheap Chinese guitars and find them 95% as good as expensive name brand units. Some of these are fifty bucks.
I've liked all the videos in this series so far but the whole "modular is only expensive if you get carried away" thing is simply not true. People who tell you modular isn't that expensive aren't being very forthcoming and are probably just trying to justify how much they've spent. I think the money I've spent in modular has been worth it, but its definitely not at a point where it is affordable to everyone. (Although a modular approach can be for anyone with software like VCV rack or Moog's excellent Model 15 app). Just as an example for people who might be interested in getting started: Completing my 3U, 104HP case (considered a pretty standard "starter" case) cost me slightly less than $3000 over the course of a year. If I had known exactly what I wanted and didn't have to sell a few things at a loss it might have been closer to $2500, but its going to be a significant expense any way you slice it. And I am not at all in the category of "constantly expanding" or wanting my modular system to do everything.
Hey Jonathan, fair point and I can see how the video could be read that way. But that wasn't the intention. I think there's a space between cheap & expensive. Most importantly, I wanted to communicate that the cost of modular isn't this fixed number. Like "it costs $3,000 to start using modular." That absolutely isn't true, and there are a lot of reasons people might want to just use a module or 2 to compliment their existing set-up. The point of this series is just to get people curious enough to start doing their own research. And I believe sweeping statements about cost are a big barrier.
@@jacksonb6262 This one is actually real simple. I have a guitar loop going into the Make Noise 0-Coast. I'm using a Keystep to improvise with the 0-Coast. The whole thing is slowed down in the Morphagene.
I wish watched video before I brought 3 eurorack cases only to sell them and now U only have one tiptop audio case to explore. But...if I even hit the lottery I will be expanding 😂😂😂
I'll also say that the euro market right now is utterly saturated, with so many manufacturers, modules, people who have gotten into it, want to get out of it, and/or just swap and buy different modules. The upshot is that it's a buyer's market. Used modules routinely go for 30% below their new price, or more. You don't need to buy anything new, really, if you just are patient. I once pointed this out to a prospective modular user in an old fashioned brick and mortar store and the bearded manager then yelled at me, "What the fuck man!" Yeah, so sorry to paint market realities for you, truly a horrific thing! But yeah, "new," customer service from a "real" store (right..), etc..good luck promoting your products.
I don't agree about the 1st myth. Modular is an expensive way to go and you don't really have much choise. Specially if you have no idea or don't feel like soldering and putting things together and build them yourself. A small case will cost you 300e at least and even if you start with a tiny little case like the one in this video you'll eventually need a bigger one. Further, no matter which way you go, you'll need some modules only to get signals move around (lfo's, utilities, cables). Add just one fx module and together with the case you're easily on 1000e. Why not get a Moog Grandmother? Just saying.
Like they said in the video, it depends what your goals are. If all you want is a monosynth, buy a monosynth, but even that can be bought with expansion points for far cheaper than a Moog Grandmother. Get an Arturia Microbrute used for $100, add a Tip Top Audio Happy Ending Kit for another $100 used and some 2hp effects modules for between $75 and $100 a piece and by the time you get to the $899 of the Grandmother your rig is much more personalized and multifunctional. And that’s assuming you want a monosynth. There are many more configurations available and, as was just pointed out, using VCV rack is free. Buy a module to connect it to the computer and now you can use these “modules” with your setup for free.
Cases can be got for much lower than that - a doepfer 3U case is 150-170, which includes power and everything. 300 would get you a sizable 9U case. A Grandmother may be cheaper, but it's no substitute for a proper modular.
Normally I'm a big fan but this piece has problems. The first "myth" about modular being expensive admits concludes "modular is not cheap". So... that's not a myth then, right? You can buy a full 6-voice synth with 1000 parameters to tweak for €300. A decent electric guitar is only €100 and an amp pedal another 30 quid. All the software you'd ever want (pd, VCV, etc.) is free. Compared to all these, modular is expensive. There's no denying it... even you didn't deny it! But some things are worth spending money on. Sometimes. For some people. The second myth, that modular only makes one sort of sound, is one I've never heard over many decades. If some people do say that, they are clueless. I mean, even the "Stranger Things" theme is held up as a great example of modular (whether it is or not is beside the point) and that's not bleeps. So why is that point worth addressing at all? This video really comes across as someone trying to justify themselves, against the facts. Practical tips and starting points would have been so much more useful. Instead your "starter" systems and demo kits all cost well over a grand. In this world that IS expensive to many.
It's an intresting way to make music for sure. For beginners I find it a bit too free, too much focused on just "sound" instead of actual "music" though. If you start with modular without having ever played any regular instrument, you might not learn much about how music works, how notes and chords relate to each other, how people play together, how composition structures a piece and so on. That's fine if you want to go experimental/avantgarde and make, let's say, Conrad Schnitzler like stuff, but if you want to make regular songs or tracks, it might come out a bit one-dimensional and weak on the compositional side. On the other hand there are million ways to learn music, so maybe I'm wrong.
No. Some modules can save its settings, but you will probably never use just one module. You can write down/remember settings for some patches, but you'll probably get at least slightly different sound next time you try that patch.
The whole reason I refuse to get into modular is because I know how I am with gear, and I do have an addictive personality. I would probably eventually end up divorced and homeless living under a bridge with my modules hooked up to a fucking car battery... that much variety is a recipe for disaster. I am never satisfied.
The cheapest entry point: 1. Find an open source module (there are a lot of them and they cover probably all the functionality that is found in eurorack) 2. Get its PCB produced in Chinese factory (I use JLCPCB). The price is $2 for ten 10x10cm boards + shipping ($9 in my case). Eurorack boards are ~11cm, so you might hit prices of $20 for 10 pcbs (including shipping) 3. Get components. These are usually analog components (resistors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, analog ics) which are extremely cheap. The cost of elements per module is usually $15-$25 4. Solder everything 5. Make a panel - you can do it from cardboard, scraped metal, PCB material (costs about the same as those PCBs mentioned above), plexiglass, whatever... There's your module. It can cost as low as $10, maybe even less. You don't even need fabricated pcb - you can do it on perfboards. Yes, fancy module usually costs money, but if you're only interested in producing sound, you're looking at prices around $20-$30 per module. If you're buying PCB+panel sets from SDIY shops like Thonk, Modular Addict or similar, a price of the finished module averages at around $60
Modular is a waste of time and money. You better off study music theory and learn to play one or more instruments. With that foundation you can write music in all styles, including modular generative! 👍
great video :) for all the small budgets, check out the great semi-modular synths with patch bays (Neutron, Erebus v3, Moog Mother32, ...), this allows you to dive in the patching world without paying to much and you can expand it with modules ;)
Also, Expert Sleepers ES-3 and ES-6 via ADAT combined with Bitwig Modulators or VCV Rack. So you have endless synced digital modulation for CV IN and CV OUT that you can program and use on any semi-modular patchpoint you want. This is the cheapest way to experiment. In VCV Rack you also get all Mutable Instruments Modules for free.
My personal outlook is that Modular is like gardening. It can happen in a window box or across an acre of land. How you use your space, what you plant and where or what you plant next too is neither right or wrong. It can be informed or experimental. It can be laboured over or happened across. Modular is an ever-changing, evolving organic process. Patch, tweak, repeat. There's no end goal. And how much or how little kit you have is irrelevant. I've seen racks and racks of kit that sound nothing more like a skeleton masturbating in a biscuit tin, whereas others with very few but curated modules produced rhythmically rich and textured tracks. Finally, it's worth mentioning that the fast-growing modular community is a diverse, creative, informed, warm and welcoming one.
Perfect
ua-cam.com/video/v-t38OE7GC4/v-deo.html
PERFECT !
i’ve done a lot of gardening, but have yet to modularate. love the simile. hope to modulate soon; so much less hurty on the body.
The piece that shows up at 1:54 is one of the loveliest things I've heard on UA-cam.
To many people saying “this is the reason for this and that”, everyone has their own reasons for doing things, sometimes they have common reasons. I personally got into modular because I thought it looked fun and I really liked the sounds the people in the videos I was watching were getting. I couldn’t afford it, I still can’t afford it, but I make it work. DIY is a great way to go and it leads to better knowledge of electronics and music in general. You people are ALL right!! Why? Because you each have your own reasons for either staying away from or getting into modular. All of your points are valid, at least for yourselves.
This applies to so many other areas of music making too. Glorious.
Amazingly beautiful series! Well made, simple, honest and super informative.
About Myth 1: expensiveness?
Google/watch-vids-about/download “VCV Rack”.
For those who don’t know, it’s a big, FREE, and decent modular sandbox for Pc AND Mac.
...with a huge library of modules ranging from impossible-in-the-real-world to complete hardware emulation of real world modules from the likes of Befaco, Mutable Instruments, Music Thing, etc.
I watched all these videos and converted from the guitar/pedal world to the eurorack world, but didn’t know about VCV rack until I’d already started my own Eurorack rig. I wish I’d played around in VCV first to figure out what really interested me in modular so I could tailor my purchases to match/chase that.
@4:18 just an FYI that "simple little patch" costs about $1,750.00 give or take and not including cables or a case.
Traditional music is like blazing a trail up a mountain; once completed, everyone can follow the same trail, and have the same experience.
Modular music is like a walk in the woods; you wander, looking behind every tree, and under every rock. Once in a while you discover something truly wonderful; you enjoy it for the moment, and then move on. You will find many beautiful moments, but you'll never see things exactly the same way twice.
Everyone has the same experience with "traditional music"? What?
This is the best series i've seen so far. I should have seen all these before i fell in to the swamp of modulars.
Maybe the best video about modularism I’ve ever watched. Thank you guys :)
The sounds you’ve got behind the cost discussion are wonderful
all the smaller setups in this video = > $1000. It's expensive. It can be dangerously so if you're obsessive.
cksample3 Agreed. A counter argument is to ask yourself how much a small pedalboard made from the pedals Knobs usually exhibits would cost. Three Chase Bliss pedals would put you into the same ballpark. Just like all things, there are alternative methods to getting similar things, from DIY to buying used to using alternative modules/pedals.
As they said in the video, it can be expensive but it doesn’t have to be and, ultimately, you get something tailored to you. Whether that’s worth the expense is up to you.
Jean-Pierre Joubert I don’t think there is a comparable cheap road into modular. Pedals can be very self contained and there are numerous models that are sub 100. Eurorack you have to have a power supply and rails or a case -$150 then at least 3 modules to really be in a good place to start experimenting. Even if you were to be conservative and aim for sub $100 modules you are already pushing $500 when you roll in the need for patch cables. If you go semimodular to get started you are still starting out at around $500-600. It’s a steeper entry price is my point.
This is the video in this series that’s inspired me the most to eventually get into modular. Not now because i’m a broke college student, but one day i’d love to have a small modular system and a semi-modular synth like the 0-Coast.
A software synth can be LESS distracting than all those patch cables in your way. :-)
@John Verne I feel that! Would likely buy a pair of bongos if I was still coding like I used to. :-)
My journey started from VCV Rack Software. It's great!
love this serie, I just know the existence of modular but I've been always scared by all the misconception you've talked about. Now I'm really curious to dig in this world, so thank you!
I love your videos! Thanks for making modular friendlier and less intimidating!
I like the heck out of some bleep bloops. 💞
oh yes
I'm slowly piecing my first 84hp rack together, taking advantage of Reverb to hunt for the modules I' researched. I have a clear idea of what I want to do, have a short list of voices and needed modules, clocks, logic sequencers to get me there, but at basic modules the list has changed multiple times.
"See you next time maybe" So wonderfully unpresumptuous
Love these videos so much. Saying Modular isn't expensive isn't entirely true... But saying it isn't expensive in relation to music gear as a whole is true! A decent EQ will cost ~ $500US and up and you'll probably want a couple of those if you're going to build a studio. And a compressor. And an FX unit... And some microphones... You buy what you can afford! I work a part time job and still put away enough money to buy about a module per month or two. Also computers are great as well! But like modular they are not for everyone. I have a shit laptop so I can have a nice modular! Give and take! Don't judge! Be creative! :)
Let's not even get into traditional instruments, which you are expected to spend thousands on for a good sound.
I agree with a lot of your view points on the subject and I love the new direction of your new videos. Maybe the next series should be certain modules almost in the same format of your pedal videos. I ended up taking the tabletop route and getting mostly elektron gear for my synth set up. Your videos have been extremely entertaining throughout the last few years. Cheers.
Thanks, glad you're into it! There will definitely be more modular stuff, and specific module demos (there's already been one for ALM!)
i appreciate that y'all are getting into the discussion with this one. personally what's kept me excited about this series has been commenters reccomending free, open-source tools to do modular synthesis on a computer, like Automatonism and VCV Rack, which i've been using to follow along at home. i'm a little surprised these options didn't get mentioned tbh
Me too. Love the comments section on this video.
Thank you for therapy. What i really noticed is that there are essential modules, in most cases people think about them last. Essential are modules without which your modular cannot work. 1) good power supply. 2) utility that covers your requirements ( interfacing, mixing, multiples, clock, dividers, etc) 3) sound sources. 4) processing, triggering, logic, etc. the thing is, part of these features might be internal or external. What is bad for noobs : too much freedom. You should know really well what you are doing. Option for noobs: get semi modular, or ready assembled ready-to-go kit. I’m not gonna buy eurorack in nearest future, i’ll spend some money on learning and training.
Cookie Monster Good points. If you are curious about it I would suggest using VCV Rack, which is free and has replications of many actual Eurorack units. It’s free and allows you to see what you might like in modular, if it’s for you or not, all without expense beyond the computer you probably already have.
Don't spend your money on learning and training. Take a VCV Rack. It's free. It's modular. It will give you perfect example of what you might get out of modular, how to patch things, how to not get what you want, how to get great things that you didn't want.. When you feel comfortable with VCV and patching, you might or might not turn to hardware modular.
Modular is not magic that will turn your music into money. It's another instrument.
On the other hand, for me, modular is a great way to spend time. I build the modules (DIY path) and have as much fun doing that, as when playing with it. Did I make great music? Not at all. Never made even one song. Do I regret the money I've put into modular - again, not at all. I love discovering sounds that I can get from my racks, like some people love sounds from their acoustic instruments.
Anyway, don't think that modular is a) magic wand and b) necessity.
Thank you Marko, i know about VCV rack, and someday i’ll try it. When i speak about learning, i mean general music theory, the fundamentals, rhythms, chords, etc. I have quite decent non-modular hardware that is good both for newbies and pros, i could spend years doing everything intuitively, but i don’t have much time. Fundamental knowledge is hardware independent. As for modular - i like the concept, i like to solder, to play with knobs, switches, buttons, so as a human with technical background i don’t think i get a lot of problems with building and using modular setup. Modular is a tool for sound sculpting, i think i’ll go and learn art itself first.
Cookie Monster whatever you do, don’t waste time. There is no better time to start than now.
i needed this video and didnt even know it
A beginners guide about what modules are mandatory to start with modular would be awesome
All the music examples in this series are great, can we get a 'knobs' album on bandcamp soon please.
Don't do it people. Hold onto your money, smell your money.
I REALLY hate to say it but I think I agree.
For me Money is for buying things that bring joy to me and others,sitting on a pile of cash does nothing to me
Every individual component that I have looked at is 400-500us. That’s expensive considering I would want at least 3 modules and then a box and so on. That’s a pretty nice pedal board!!! I still am intrigued by all of this and will continue to watch and dream! Thank you knobs!!!!!
phish4me1999 You may be looking at Lots of modules from Doepfer, Pittsburgh Modular, 2HP and Erica Synths are $100 and less. Used modules are typically 20% cheaper. A Happy Ending Kit can be found for $120-ish for a rack. You can also save with DIY, and there’s no law that says you *need* everything to get started, that you can’t add modules over time.
There are ways to mitigate cost but, like anything in life, it takes time, research, and knowing where to look. I’d suggest you check out places like Reverb, modular selling groups on Facebook for better pricing, and Modulargrid.net to help you find solutions and alternatives to your needs.
That "Knobs-sound" is always there, whether with pedals or modules
this is really wonderful, thank you.
People that defend modular constantly forget how niche the world of synthesizers actually is. Just for reference, the Yamaha DX7, which is considered the best selling synth of all time, sold a total of 100,000 units. Now compare that with say, how many guitars, basses, etc. are sold by comparison. You can't simply state that modular is cheap when most people nowadays have to think if they want to spend 500 bucks on a synth made by Korg, Novation, etc. and these same companies are fighting tooth and nail in that price bracket because people simply are not willing to pay more than that.
Also, you should really learn how synths work before getting into modular, as many modular people can and will lead you into mistakes that will cost you a lot of money sometimes.
@@tmbrwn Don't tell me you seriously think that these cost that much money because they are as good as their price tag implies. They cost that much because these companies don't sell many units. Even if you take a large company as an example, there's a reason why Korg has to sell the King Korg for 1 grand and can do the Monologue for 300 bucks. Many people who want to have a synth just to fiddle around with will not spend that much money on it. What if they don't like it? Moreso, Behringer will sell many more Model D units than Moog will sell Voyagers as well. As I stated earlier the world of synthesizes is very small in comparison to everything else. You can count sales on a guy like Dave Smith in the hundreds, not even thousands. I wouldn't count Clavia selling even close to 10 thousand Nord Stages as well. These companies can't eat the cost or make them cheap because there's no demand enough for that.
@@tmbrwn Sure. Just download VCV Rack and fiddle around with it. It's free and has tons of free modules you can use already (around 50+ or so)
As someone currently involved in both modular and stand alone hardware (and software) synth industry I will say this.. Those dx7 numbers are outdated. Severely.
Also when you take into account the vst to hardware transition market, those numbers really get skewed. (Don't even ask me about the numbers of torrented pirate synths)....
Synths and modular are becoming far more common place than they were throughout the 80's 90's. Thay being said it still pales by comparison to snare Drum sales lol.
CrimSun @i really agree with the fact that people should build a solid experience with Classic synth before going the rabbit hole,a lot of people are doing basic stuff with modulars, easily accomplished with other synth, in fact modular is heaven for bleeps and bloops, i starter modular because other synth could not have euclidean sequencers, waveshapers,morphable oscillators, modulated modulators and so on, i started with a deadcheap neutron semi, then dfam then a case and second hand modules, i started really cheap ,but ultimately i was sure it was for me, ( also i started with softube modular and vcv to learn how to patch before spending a single coin )
Great summary!
The sounds that start at about 1:55, that interests me greatly. What types of gear would be good to get started with to go in that direction? Is guitar involved? (if so that's fine with me) Not looking to know exactly how you did it, but face me in the right direction if you can please. I would really like DIY kits, but I'm sure some premade modules will end up in my hands. These videos have been extremely enjoyable and helpful. For me, it IS time to modular.
The Moog One is the best replacement for Modular synths, ... as Amp, Filter, Oscillator circuits can behave the way you want
I can't wait for next episode
I’m going to modular so hard
i wish everyone on r/modular would watch this
Can’t wait for getting started!!!!! yep! Can’t wait
knobs, where did you get that old radio-ish type audio at the beginning? It’s so fookin cool also I love all your videos man. p.s. what’s the small little wood euro rack case you use?
Very good video. 👍
To all the people out there saying that modular is priced similarly to classical instruments and boutique guitars, consider it this way: for many people, classical instruments and expensive electric guitars are historically the domain of the bourgeois, whilst electronic music post 1970 is typically working class. The revival of modular and expensive analogue synthesisers is difficult for so many because it has a certain exclusivity (minus things like vcvrack and reaktor etc.) that essentially adds an element of social mobility to a whole genre of music. Why should the cost of an instrument preclude a whole class of people from accessing the ability to create a certain type of music?
I can think of only two things that would make someone decide to go modular way:
1. Do you need it?
2. Do you like it?
I, personally don't need it. Modular is, in essence, a synthesizer. How often do you hear a song and focus on synth? Synth is usually just one of many instruments used in a song, so is it analog, or emulated in software - you mostly won't notice in the end result, in the song. Software got really good in emulating analog instruments lately that you'll very rarely justify the cost of an analog synth by the absolute need for that type of sound in your work. Also, bare in mind that a lot of modules in eurorack are digital. People call it hardware VSTs. And their sound is usually 16-bit 44kHz, which is obsolete in modern productions.
The latter question is as relevant as the first one. I, personally, like it. I like its approach to experimentation. I like the interface, I like the sound of those filters and ease with which you can change things and get surprising results.
Working class was buying a cheap guitar. Versatile electronic musical instruments cost 5 or 6 figures well into the eighties. I only got to use one by taking a university course. Even the cheap mono synths that arrived in the seventies were VERY expensive to most musicians. I still can't afford a Prophet LOL.
Great tunes on this video
I am afraid its really addictive and yes it costs as much as a car. And you can make the same sounds with spending 150 for a volca modular or 400 for a behringer neutron and korg SQ 1.
Ii bought a volca modular to get a taste and three months later had filled 280 HP. And not even scratched on the surface of the volca modular. or the 0-Coast and 0-ctrl, or the behringer Neutron that came on the side. So be sure you can and want afford it.
cool video!
East Coast/NY/New England/Moog or European school synthesis is not bleep and bloops! Walter/Wendy Carlos or Isao Tomita or Klaus Schulze (and a bit later JM Jarre) proved it... there are many ways to modular synthesis...
Knobs went modular. Called it. ;)
In the grand scheme of things, modular is not really any more expensive than classical instruments. People just tend to have unrealistic expectations of just how niche modular synthesis is. It is nowhere near the popularity level of guitars and fixed architecture synths. These are the typical prices you will pay for a product that will never be sold to or even seen by the vast majority of the population.
@yutr7o6856e7d68f9g The same argument could be made in the other direction with software synths. Especially today where we have access to things like VCV rack Supercollider and Puredata where the sound quality is hardly a difference, the barrier for entry is very low to be completely frank. Again, modular synthesis is still quite a ways away from being as known as the trumpet or the violin. It's important to consider that the average person would not even know what a modular synth even is, and yet they can recognize the majority of popular classical instruments.
@yutr7o6856e7d68f9g Yes, indeed the claim is false. You need a lot more cash to get a decent start with modular than most other instruments. Even a small semi-modular starter set is 2x or 6x the cost of a very good electric guitar.
@yutr7o6856e7d68f9g Exaggeration of the affordability of student level instruments aside, modular cannot be compared that way, because in essence, modular is part of the high end of synthesizers. That is why there doesn't really exist the variety of price points - at least, not enough of a variety to make a significant difference (Doepfer is less expensive, but not by much). Very few people learn to play a new instrument on an expensive, high end instrument. But people usually find a way to afford the high end when they reach the point where they feel they can justify the expense. Modular is a little different, because there is more learning involved - it isn't simply a better version of a fixed architecture synth - but semi-modular can help with that, at a much more reasonable price point.
I am not trying to argue that modular isn't expensive; it absolutely is, just as any high end instrument is. The question is whether or not it is unreasonably so. Considering the boutique nature of modular, I would say no. If more big companies other than Roland decided to get into modular, I'm sure their prices would be lower than the boutique companies, moreso if modular becomes more popular, and they can produce at higher volumes.
@@RobinParmar You can get a Behringer Neutron and a decent pair of headphones for ~$400-450. If you need a keyboard controller, then throw in another $50-100 for a cheap one (this is supposed to be a starter set after all, not a great set). 1/2 that would be $200-275. 1/6 would be $67-92.
Slightly more expensive would be the Make Noise 0-Coast. That, plus a Sennheiser HD-280, plus an Arturia KeyStep, is about $720. 1/2 that would be $360, and 1/6 would be $120.
What kind of "very good electric guitar" do you expect to buy at those price points?
@@jc3drums916 Check out other videos right here on UA-cam where guitarists evaluate cheap Chinese guitars and find them 95% as good as expensive name brand units. Some of these are fifty bucks.
what is that small case you use with the 0 coast? is it a DIY kit i could buy/make?
I've liked all the videos in this series so far but the whole "modular is only expensive if you get carried away" thing is simply not true. People who tell you modular isn't that expensive aren't being very forthcoming and are probably just trying to justify how much they've spent. I think the money I've spent in modular has been worth it, but its definitely not at a point where it is affordable to everyone. (Although a modular approach can be for anyone with software like VCV rack or Moog's excellent Model 15 app).
Just as an example for people who might be interested in getting started: Completing my 3U, 104HP case (considered a pretty standard "starter" case) cost me slightly less than $3000 over the course of a year. If I had known exactly what I wanted and didn't have to sell a few things at a loss it might have been closer to $2500, but its going to be a significant expense any way you slice it. And I am not at all in the category of "constantly expanding" or wanting my modular system to do everything.
Hey Jonathan, fair point and I can see how the video could be read that way. But that wasn't the intention.
I think there's a space between cheap & expensive. Most importantly, I wanted to communicate that the cost of modular isn't this fixed number. Like "it costs $3,000 to start using modular." That absolutely isn't true, and there are a lot of reasons people might want to just use a module or 2 to compliment their existing set-up.
The point of this series is just to get people curious enough to start doing their own research. And I believe sweeping statements about cost are a big barrier.
What kind of patch cables are those?
would love to know more about the patch starting at 2:00. It's so nice : )
is that a guitar? or are you playing something with the tetrapad?
@@jacksonb6262 This one is actually real simple. I have a guitar loop going into the Make Noise 0-Coast. I'm
using a Keystep to improvise with the 0-Coast. The whole thing is slowed down in the Morphagene.
I wish watched video before I brought 3 eurorack cases only to sell them and now U only have one tiptop audio case to explore.
But...if I even hit the lottery I will be expanding 😂😂😂
I'll also say that the euro market right now is utterly saturated, with so many manufacturers, modules, people who have gotten into it, want to get out of it, and/or just swap and buy different modules. The upshot is that it's a buyer's market. Used modules routinely go for 30% below their new price, or more. You don't need to buy anything new, really, if you just are patient. I once pointed this out to a prospective modular user in an old fashioned brick and mortar store and the bearded manager then yelled at me, "What the fuck man!" Yeah, so sorry to paint market realities for you, truly a horrific thing! But yeah, "new," customer service from a "real" store (right..), etc..good luck promoting your products.
I think I recognize that arm. :-)
What 3 would you recommend starting with?
Dass Ananda morphagene/pamela’s new workout/pressure points
Depends on what you want to do with it. As the video states, modular is very personal, so my first three modules might be of zero use to you.
Stefan Bernhart what were your first three?
Gosh you’re lovey
U get out what u put in...
You CAN get what you put in. You probably won't though.
Sober and sold
Superbe :-)
I don't agree about the 1st myth. Modular is an expensive way to go and you don't really have much choise. Specially if you have no idea or don't feel like soldering and putting things together and build them yourself. A small case will cost you 300e at least and even if you start with a tiny little case like the one in this video you'll eventually need a bigger one. Further, no matter which way you go, you'll need some modules only to get signals move around (lfo's, utilities, cables). Add just one fx module and together with the case you're easily on 1000e. Why not get a Moog Grandmother? Just saying.
if ur broke just get vcv rack lol
Like they said in the video, it depends what your goals are. If all you want is a monosynth, buy a monosynth, but even that can be bought with expansion points for far cheaper than a Moog Grandmother. Get an Arturia Microbrute used for $100, add a Tip Top Audio Happy Ending Kit for another $100 used and some 2hp effects modules for between $75 and $100 a piece and by the time you get to the $899 of the Grandmother your rig is much more personalized and multifunctional. And that’s assuming you want a monosynth. There are many more configurations available and, as was just pointed out, using VCV rack is free. Buy a module to connect it to the computer and now you can use these “modules” with your setup for free.
Cases can be got for much lower than that - a doepfer 3U case is 150-170, which includes power and everything. 300 would get you a sizable 9U case.
A Grandmother may be cheaper, but it's no substitute for a proper modular.
@@nostalgia_junkie There's always that asshole who thinks he's got more money than you and therefore feels superior. Cheers mate!
@@ethermod307 idk if that was either of their intent but thanks lol.
The more I watch this series I have a feeling you’re counting your modular as a business expense now? 😅
Normally I'm a big fan but this piece has problems. The first "myth" about modular being expensive admits concludes "modular is not cheap". So... that's not a myth then, right? You can buy a full 6-voice synth with 1000 parameters to tweak for €300. A decent electric guitar is only €100 and an amp pedal another 30 quid. All the software you'd ever want (pd, VCV, etc.) is free. Compared to all these, modular is expensive. There's no denying it... even you didn't deny it! But some things are worth spending money on. Sometimes. For some people.
The second myth, that modular only makes one sort of sound, is one I've never heard over many decades. If some people do say that, they are clueless. I mean, even the "Stranger Things" theme is held up as a great example of modular (whether it is or not is beside the point) and that's not bleeps. So why is that point worth addressing at all?
This video really comes across as someone trying to justify themselves, against the facts. Practical tips and starting points would have been so much more useful. Instead your "starter" systems and demo kits all cost well over a grand. In this world that IS expensive to many.
It's an intresting way to make music for sure. For beginners I find it a bit too free, too much focused on just "sound" instead of actual "music" though. If you start with modular without having ever played any regular instrument, you might not learn much about how music works, how notes and chords relate to each other, how people play together, how composition structures a piece and so on. That's fine if you want to go experimental/avantgarde and make, let's say, Conrad Schnitzler like stuff, but if you want to make regular songs or tracks, it might come out a bit one-dimensional and weak on the compositional side. On the other hand there are million ways to learn music, so maybe I'm wrong.
Can it save patches?
No. Some modules can save its settings, but you will probably never use just one module. You can write down/remember settings for some patches, but you'll probably get at least slightly different sound next time you try that patch.
nice
Maybe
The whole reason I refuse to get into modular is because I know how I am with gear, and I do have an addictive personality. I would probably eventually end up divorced and homeless living under a bridge with my modules hooked up to a fucking car battery... that much variety is a recipe for disaster. I am never satisfied.
Why 18 dislikes
wow 4 minutes to try to convince people modular isn’t expensive without ever trying to suggest cheap entry points.
The cheapest entry point:
1. Find an open source module (there are a lot of them and they cover probably all the functionality that is found in eurorack)
2. Get its PCB produced in Chinese factory (I use JLCPCB). The price is $2 for ten 10x10cm boards + shipping ($9 in my case). Eurorack boards are ~11cm, so you might hit prices of $20 for 10 pcbs (including shipping)
3. Get components. These are usually analog components (resistors, capacitors, transistors, diodes, analog ics) which are extremely cheap. The cost of elements per module is usually $15-$25
4. Solder everything
5. Make a panel - you can do it from cardboard, scraped metal, PCB material (costs about the same as those PCBs mentioned above), plexiglass, whatever...
There's your module. It can cost as low as $10, maybe even less. You don't even need fabricated pcb - you can do it on perfboards.
Yes, fancy module usually costs money, but if you're only interested in producing sound, you're looking at prices around $20-$30 per module. If you're buying PCB+panel sets from SDIY shops like Thonk, Modular Addict or similar, a price of the finished module averages at around $60
i need moar
Can i fall in love with you please 🙃
Modular is a waste of time and money.
You better off study music theory and learn to play one or more instruments.
With that foundation you can write music in all styles, including modular generative! 👍
great video :) for all the small budgets, check out the great semi-modular synths with patch bays (Neutron, Erebus v3, Moog Mother32, ...), this allows you to dive in the patching world without paying to much and you can expand it with modules ;)
Great advice. Hope people read it. Model D and Volcas keep my hands busy.
Also, Expert Sleepers ES-3 and ES-6 via ADAT combined with Bitwig Modulators or VCV Rack. So you have endless synced digital modulation for CV IN and CV OUT that you can program and use on any semi-modular patchpoint you want. This is the cheapest way to experiment. In VCV Rack you also get all Mutable Instruments Modules for free.