I love how snowmobile engineers & companies are giving people what they want. This era of snowmobiles reminds me of when the japanese motorcycles were going crazy with insane horsepower numbers before they made a gentlemens agreement. What a awesome time to be apart of the snowmobile industry!
Agree, i think we are approaching the gentlemen agreement. I have the chance to test the flagship machine every year and it is difficult to use all what the machine are capable of in the trails. On lakes yes but it is a narrow usage. Actual 850 and turbo r sled have enough power. I will test this turbo sled and see but for me the real interest lies in suspension and handling development. For engine they should focus on reliability and longevity/ durability. Development of smart shox is where the magic is for the next 5 years. I hope they can maintain 2 stroke alive with innovation; they are such simple and fun engine.
They obviously haven’t watched any Muskoka Freerider vids. Matt’s got his turbo’s hammered ALL the time, for long duration’s, in the deep POW! I’m thinking that water injection could be a difference maker for mountain riders 🤷♂️Great vid , as usual!! 👍
Luke that was an A1 job interview with the makers of the ski-doo. I love the questions that you asked and they were on point specially with the water injection and when it comes in and when it uses it and the shock package that was a great understanding of why they don't use Smart shocks in a competition sled.
Longer wide open pulls on trails over mountain riding? I don’t think so. Weight reduction may be a reason to leave the ethanol injection off mountain turbo.
I would argue mountain riders are more on the throttle than you think. Particularly ascending treed slopes. Wide open, in and out of the throttle 🤔 So I dunno about the logic behind the injection.
I agree, the turbo 850 Ski-Doo summit "mountain sleds" are different than the flatland Ski-Doo 850 turbo. The reason there's a turbo on the mountain sleds is to maintain the 165 horsepower at 8000 ft. The reason for a turbo on the 850 Ski-Doo flatlander, more horsepower, 180. More horsepower, heavier air density, equals meth injection! This guy saying mountain riders not using wide open throttle much. He has no clue mountain riders have the throttle pinched 99% of the time! He should have let the girl talk!!!
@@Red4banger it only makes sense, right. Deep powder: more throttle Steep inclines: more throttle VS Lake: More HP Trails: More HP As a new addition on the skidoo lineup, might better to test it out where the machines are more easily accessible, just in case. Edit: good maintenance practices dictate to do the top end of trail sled around 10K km Mountain sled around 4 to 5K km.
@@jimeverden2244 I don't know if the guy that did the interview is a big shot at Ski-Doo or not. If he is, he shouldn't be! Whatever he does for Ski-Doo he gets paid too much! If you're going to do an interview about your latest and greatest product, you should at least know something about it. Come on ski-Doo, you're better then this!
It's winter windshield wash in a XPS bottle, lol. Exactly, 25 to 30 bucks for something that takes pennies to make, it comes down to ripping buyers off. The price of the sled is not a big enough slap in the face. All that being said, an amazing piece of kit.
It is absolutely NOT windshield washer fluid. This is a COMPLETE falsehood and could mislead other people into buying something that wont work. The basics of the fluid is SIMILAR to what your talking about. But it has extra additives. The most important is an anti foaming agent. If you use regular washer fluid it will foam up like crazy and the pump wont be able to deliver it to the injectors. You need to do your research before you make sweeping claims that could mislead others. If YOU want to be cheap and run washer fluid, go ahead. For anyone who actually cares about what works and whats best for their sled, just spend $30 for a seasons worth of proper XPS fluid. 3 lunches at subway... thats all it costs.
Pretty fantastic machine. I do think there’s more behind the reason of not adding the water injection to the mountain, sleds. Yes, your blipping the throttle on and off more which doesn’t generate the same heat as compared to wide-open throttle pulls for 10+ seconds but turbos work harder higher altitudes, especially in a sort of turbo normalized situation, which this engine is. You create much more heat with compressed air at altitude. More so than at sea level when the turbo is barely working and producing any boost. I think it’s to keep the sled, light and simple and market that aspect for high altitude that’s probably the real reason why they don’t add it to the MT sleds.
@@EmilForsberg_GRYBO the coolant side of the motor might get cold more but the compressed air in the manifold will get much hotter the higher you go. Also, with thinner air the harder it is for heat to dissipate. Higher EGT’s too. My experience is with turbo normalized airplanes and watching all the numbers as they climb in altitude.
We'll see how it works in a year or so. I'd like to see how the engine looks at the end of a few seasons. Otherwise, gorgeous sled. I went with Lynx though this year just for looks and the fun factor.
@@sethalos since it's controlled by the factory ecu so I'm guessing if you run out or pump stops working the factory computer will probably pull a few degrees of timing and keep it safe. Being as it's factory on the sled I'm sure there are fail safes built in. As far as the concept of it working yes it's far safer for the engine to live longer with it than without. Keeping the Temps down makes everything in an engine live longer. When turbo Cars run on meth it works so well they no longer run an intercooler. And the engine will run so cold with that fuel on a blower car that the blower can feel cold to the touch. Like way colder than ambient temp. The concept of meth in a boosted engine has been proven for decades.
I will bet with high confidence a 2 stroke turbo will not be reliable over years. I see this as a 4000km on avg rebuild. I could be wrong but I'm not gambling with my money and will stick with NA outside of mountains. (At high altitude the turbo is needed)
Great job Luke. Very good questions. One thing I wish you would’ve pushed back on, as others have stated, is the reasoning behind not using water cooling in the mountains. There are definitely more instances of WOT in the mountains than the trail. Also, I’m curious how they power the big iPad-sized gauge with no battery? In the Backcountry XRS, it was either shot OR the big gauge, never both. Great video as always snowtrax!
Shot is a super clever system and makes total sense. On the other hand Battery now like anti-gravity brand weight nothing….but i don’t know how they perform in very cold temperature. I have them in a my off road bike and atv they are 1 lbs vs 6lbs.
I have a meth system on my turbo 1100 cat and it allows me to make 300 hp on pump gas without melting the motor. They have been doing meth injection on cars for decades it's so cool to have grown up on old sleds and see all this new technology trickling down to sleds.
From what they have said before even if it’s empty you still have the normal 165hp the 850 N/A has, but you will still have 180hp just as long as your intake air temps stay below whatever the computer is set to spray in the meth.
Great story, there should have been at least one engineer present to answer questions, one I would have asked, why water methanol injection? While I understand it cools the intake charge , turbo charging adds heat to the intake based on boost pressure, but water methanol injection has many negatives, like on going cost for the life of the snowmobile, having to use a a special blend made and sold by the manufacture, maintenance cost, as there needs to be filters in the system or the jets would eventually become blocked, running out while miles away and the fact even when diluted with water, antifoaming agent’s and lubrication, methanol and alloys don’t get along as it corrosive! This is a band aid solution to controlling intake temps , something that was done in the back in world war 2 and in the early days of car supercharging and turbo charging, historically it’s always had its issues. Then along came inter-cooling and it’s been around and proven since the mid 1980s, the weight of the fluid and pump would not be much more than that of a well designed air to air intercooler and seeing these snow mobiles are driven in very cold weather keeping air intake temps down with an air to air inter cooler would be very easy and in my experience with cars and bikes, turbocharged in winter temps, these lower intake temps make additional power . Water methanol injection is a been counters choice, where as air to air or water to air inter cooling would be an engineers choice . I think they dropped the ball on this one and that water meth injection would be a deal breaker in my books, as I have personally lost a car engine to a blocked water jet when the engine needed it the most , it failed. I guess the after market guys could rectify this issue in time, again an added expense . Before any one jumps on me saying what would I know, I been in the performance engine game for 34 years, built my first turbo car when I was 19yo, turbo charged many bikes and cars for customers and my self, raced circuit and drags with turbo cars and bikes and for the last ten years of my working life I ran my own performance motorcycle tuning shop with a chassis dyno, where I built fast bikes, with NOS , and turbochargers, never would I have fitted water injection electronically controlled or otherwise, as I would never risk such an expensive engine combo on a cheap water methanol system that could cause it to fail.
You'd be asking alot to throw smart shocks on a sled with no battery. The etecs are already power hungry systems, that stator is going to be constantly running at capacity and there won't be anything there to take some of the load
Is the water/meth used to control engine temp at all when it’s running hot from low snow conditions or warm days? Or does it control charge air temps only
So what happens if you run out of the water injection fluid while getting hot on a lake run? $25 a gallon for the ICE water injection fluid. It can't be that special to have to cost that much. We shall see what people come up with as alternative.
Brings to mind the old adage “Penny wise, pound foolish”. Cracks me up how you can justify dropping this kind of cash on a high tech sled and then complaining about the comparatively small cost per season of running decent fluids designed for the thing…and then complaining after the thing fails on bargain oil, water injection alternatives or other fluids. No sense whatsoever.
I wonder how the whole system would react to modifications. More often than not, people are adding bolt on parts. Wonder if that will upset the “balance” and affect longevity.
Makes no sense. I’d argue the injection would be more beneficial to mountain riders, full throttle up steep grades through feet of snow. Constantly high revving
I would be really interested in the real world dry and wet weight of this vs an assault boost! I am guessing wen they claim same weight as the NA it is without the ethanol thank filled.
5:22 highly disagree. I could get 20mpg on trails and a 10 second wide open pull on a lake puts you at dangerously high speeds. Mountain riding = 1 mpg
I did want to adapt the Skidoo Methanol/water injection system to my air cooled Buell Motorcycle engine. Automotive water injections are far too large and bulky for a 1203 CC Motorcycle engine. Then I found a company that sells a Flex Fuel system. I can boost my Octane with a 50% x 50% mix of E-85 and 87 Octane gasoline , make more power with a Fuel that runs much cooler and costs less plus it can boost Horsepower up to 10% Snow Performance also sells a 50% x 50% mix of Methanol and water with an anti-corrosive Lubricant in it too. A Hot engine turns the water to steam and should increase your horsepower some too. Methanal is also a very high octane fuel. More steam and exhaust should turn the Turbo compressor faster. The question is can guys increase the pop off valve pressure and make more HP? Seems I heard the Yamaha 4 stroke Turbo sleds could be turned up a lot . They would benefit greatly from the Water/ Meth injection too as opposed to having to use high octane race gasoline,
180hp is slow they don't put top end numbers even to the old machine 800 tripple. There whole shot sleds for trails . Not worth the money they won't even hit 115mph in a trail boaring honestly
RIP Yamacat. They made bulletproof reliable motors. I loved that you could tune them through the roof and get insane horsepower numbers. I never saw one brand beat them in the horsepower numbers. Except..
It’s good to see the snowmobile manufacturers are following the auto manufacturers and only marketing the high end large profit margin vehicles. Let’s not market to the average man anymore. Fail.
Halfway through the video and I can't my big trap shut any longer. Tractor pullers have been using water to cool their cylinders off for decades. So there's that technology. But what happens when this sled lines up with an old school muscle sled? Ones meant for the lake. I'm talking the latest model xcr 800, a vmax4, and 03 f7, a 98 thundercat???
It’s literally $25 for a jug. Depending on driving habits most people won’t burn through a jug in an entire season…. Why can’t people just use XPS in their $30,000 sled??? Makes no sense to me…. You’ve just spent huge money on a new sled and you wanna run washer fluid in it? Crazy.
@@pajamatime5750 run washer fluid in my turbo v8 at 25 pounds of boost for 25000 miles in 5 years of street and drag racing. Works absolutely perfect! P.s. just the motor was 20k to build. Makes 1200 wheel hp on pump gas with the injection system.
I love all of this high horsepower go fast and smooth stuff. But cmon. The prices are astronomical. For base model 600 today you’re basically paying for a top of line 800 in 2015. And if you go back another 8 years it’s even worse. Please make a sled that more people can afford
Mountain sled has a larger cooler do to the longer tunnel, runs in fresh snow, and has a larger paddle that moves more snow across the cooler. That’s why they don’t need it. 😂 I’m no engineer but it’s that simple
I think the launch control is no different than adjusting the engagement through springs to hold 3-5,000 rpm engagement for racing! I prefer to set it up to my type of riding and less electrical issues!!
Yeah they’re making a pile of money having customers spend $25 on a jug that’ll last a year or two depending on driving! Huge money grab after you’ve just spent $30,000 on a sled!! 🙄
Dude nobody cares about your overweight 4 stroke. ANYONE can make power with a 4 stroke - BRP and Polaris are doing it with 2 strokes.....something Yamaha will never do. lol
I want a comp 850 NA with shot and, mtn sled clean bar set up. Buddy was way wrong with the answer for meth injection is needed at low elevation and not high.
The alcohol injection decreases air inlet temp and allows more ignition timing…. All this is doing here is trying to stop it from blowing up on the lake because of detonation. Rest assured, these things will spend more time broke at the detailer than on the trail.
As soon as windshield washer fluid was brought up all I heard was stutter stutter stutter. I call bs they just came up with a way to charge a lot for a $3 bottle of washer fluid
Far too complicated, and more to go wrong, for only 180hp, turbo is so much easier. And who cares to carry a bottle of additive when racing down the lake, for the day. 🤔
In 10 years when this technology is phased out, how many years will Ski-Doo continue producing this fluid. This machine will become a first-class paper weight, since it can’t run to its maximum without this fluid. High-maintenance concepts in the woods are the opposite of what you want in a reliable snowmobile. Great in an engineering lab, terrible in practice.
To say that a trail sled needs meth for heat over a mtn sled is pure silly! My t850 has seen up to 2 min wide open and intake temps are high. Brp rep just blowin smoke and didn't answer the question.
Unfortunately, this lead doesn't fit any real niche for Lake running guys, You're gonna stick to the 3-4 cylinder Yamaha. Engines with turbos for trail riding. You're not gonna spend thirty thousand dollars to have 2-3 pounds of boost on a two stroke engine that is not even noticeable. .
I love how snowmobile engineers & companies are giving people what they want. This era of snowmobiles reminds me of when the japanese motorcycles were going crazy with insane horsepower numbers before they made a gentlemens agreement. What a awesome time to be apart of the snowmobile industry!
Agree, i think we are approaching the gentlemen agreement. I have the chance to test the flagship machine every year and it is difficult to use all what the machine are capable of in the trails. On lakes yes but it is a narrow usage. Actual 850 and turbo r sled have enough power. I will test this turbo sled and see but for me the real interest lies in suspension and handling development. For engine they should focus on reliability and longevity/ durability. Development of smart shox is where the magic is for the next 5 years. I hope they can maintain 2 stroke alive with innovation; they are such simple and fun engine.
They obviously haven’t watched any Muskoka Freerider vids. Matt’s got his turbo’s hammered ALL the time, for long duration’s, in the deep POW! I’m thinking that water injection could be a difference maker for mountain riders 🤷♂️Great vid , as usual!! 👍
Exactly what I was going to say. Can't wait to have his 2 strokes singing in my ear for the 30 min videos this winter
Lol I wasnt the only thinking of the same thing...20 second pin and wiggle pull
This is awesome, way to go skidoo. I never thought id see the day factory sleds on methanol. This 2 stroke tech warms my heart.
Never thought I'd see someone applaud a blatant cash grab
@@208SledHeadif by cash grab you mean their gonna earn a lot of cash from it then i suppose that's true
I really, really, really want one !
Where are the Kashima rear suspension shocks they advertised during spring check??
Dude your videos are the absolute best in the business!!!! Period 😊you totally remind me of howe2live with your voice. His videos a great too
Can’t wait to test it this Winter. It is overkill but … it is fun!
Fun is why we ride!!
Sweet machine
Luke that was an A1 job interview with the makers of the ski-doo. I love the questions that you asked and they were on point specially with the water injection and when it comes in and when it uses it and the shock package that was a great understanding of why they don't use Smart shocks in a competition sled.
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed this!!
Really really nice segment.....nice to know these things on my new machine.....
Glad you liked it!
Longer wide open pulls on trails over mountain riding? I don’t think so. Weight reduction may be a reason to leave the ethanol injection off mountain turbo.
More snow mountain riding cools the sled vs trail riding no snow to cool across lakes
Awesome machine, great for lake runs. Can't wait to see the city bozos on these things in the north though.
😆
👍
But on the flip side, passing them like they are standing still sure will be fun!
Hate to inform you, but there are plenty of "city slickers" that will smoke you turn to turn, all day long. Just saying🤔
It'd be really nice to see SHOT in the 600 XRS Competition as well.
I would argue mountain riders are more on the throttle than you think. Particularly ascending treed slopes. Wide open, in and out of the throttle 🤔
So I dunno about the logic behind the injection.
I agree, the turbo 850 Ski-Doo summit "mountain sleds" are different than the flatland Ski-Doo 850 turbo.
The reason there's a turbo on the mountain sleds is to maintain the 165 horsepower at 8000 ft.
The reason for a turbo on the 850 Ski-Doo flatlander, more horsepower, 180. More horsepower, heavier air density, equals meth injection!
This guy saying mountain riders not using wide open throttle much. He has no clue mountain riders have the throttle pinched 99% of the time!
He should have let the girl talk!!!
@@Red4banger it only makes sense, right.
Deep powder: more throttle
Steep inclines: more throttle
VS
Lake: More HP
Trails: More HP
As a new addition on the skidoo lineup, might better to test it out where the machines are more easily accessible, just in case.
Edit: good maintenance practices dictate to do the top end of trail sled around 10K km
Mountain sled around 4 to 5K km.
@@jimeverden2244 I don't know if the guy that did the interview is a big shot at Ski-Doo or not. If he is, he shouldn't be!
Whatever he does for Ski-Doo he gets paid too much!
If you're going to do an interview about your latest and greatest product, you should at least know something about it.
Come on ski-Doo, you're better then this!
@@Red4banger I hear ya, brother
It's winter windshield wash in a XPS bottle, lol. Exactly, 25 to 30 bucks for something that takes pennies to make, it comes down to ripping buyers off. The price of the sled is not a big enough slap in the face. All that being said, an amazing piece of kit.
25k for the sled I don’t think $25 is going to hurt also snowmobiling is the most expensive sport u pay to play
It is absolutely NOT windshield washer fluid. This is a COMPLETE falsehood and could mislead other people into buying something that wont work. The basics of the fluid is SIMILAR to what your talking about. But it has extra additives. The most important is an anti foaming agent. If you use regular washer fluid it will foam up like crazy and the pump wont be able to deliver it to the injectors. You need to do your research before you make sweeping claims that could mislead others. If YOU want to be cheap and run washer fluid, go ahead. For anyone who actually cares about what works and whats best for their sled, just spend $30 for a seasons worth of proper XPS fluid. 3 lunches at subway... thats all it costs.
Do you have any idea why skidoo seems to have a wall at 180hp, first with 900R and now the 850R
Pretty fantastic machine. I do think there’s more behind the reason of not adding the water injection to the mountain, sleds. Yes, your blipping the throttle on and off more which doesn’t generate the same heat as compared to wide-open throttle pulls for 10+ seconds but turbos work harder higher altitudes, especially in a sort of turbo normalized situation, which this engine is. You create much more heat with compressed air at altitude. More so than at sea level when the turbo is barely working and producing any boost. I think it’s to keep the sled, light and simple and market that aspect for high altitude that’s probably the real reason why they don’t add it to the MT sleds.
I just assumed it's cause mountain sleds gets more cooling with the larger amount of snow up in the mountains
@@EmilForsberg_GRYBO the coolant side of the motor might get cold more but the compressed air in the manifold will get much hotter the higher you go. Also, with thinner air the harder it is for heat to dissipate. Higher EGT’s too. My experience is with turbo normalized airplanes and watching all the numbers as they climb in altitude.
Did they mention if it's retrofitted to a mountain sled? I can think of biiiig long tree pulls that it'd be nice
We'll see how it works in a year or so. I'd like to see how the engine looks at the end of a few seasons. Otherwise, gorgeous sled. I went with Lynx though this year just for looks and the fun factor.
My turbo 1100 cat has a meth system and it really helps keep the motor happy. I make 300 hp on pump gas.
@@danmackey9462 I don't mean to imply it won't work fantastic, but I want to be cautious with my 33k (CDN) I'd have to put down on it, hehe.
@@sethalos since it's controlled by the factory ecu so I'm guessing if you run out or pump stops working the factory computer will probably pull a few degrees of timing and keep it safe. Being as it's factory on the sled I'm sure there are fail safes built in. As far as the concept of it working yes it's far safer for the engine to live longer with it than without. Keeping the Temps down makes everything in an engine live longer. When turbo Cars run on meth it works so well they no longer run an intercooler. And the engine will run so cold with that fuel on a blower car that the blower can feel cold to the touch. Like way colder than ambient temp. The concept of meth in a boosted engine has been proven for decades.
I will bet with high confidence a 2 stroke turbo will not be reliable over years. I see this as a 4000km on avg rebuild. I could be wrong but I'm not gambling with my money and will stick with NA outside of mountains. (At high altitude the turbo is needed)
Give it one season maybe then it will be a boat anchor
2:14
Pretty damn gracefully done!😂😂😂
Great job Luke. Very good questions. One thing I wish you would’ve pushed back on, as others have stated, is the reasoning behind not using water cooling in the mountains. There are definitely more instances of WOT in the mountains than the trail.
Also, I’m curious how they power the big iPad-sized gauge with no battery? In the Backcountry XRS, it was either shot OR the big gauge, never both.
Great video as always snowtrax!
It's got a small battery just for the cluster.. it's under the methanol tank
Shot is a super clever system and makes total sense. On the other hand Battery now like anti-gravity brand weight nothing….but i don’t know how they perform in very cold temperature. I have them in a my off road bike and atv they are 1 lbs vs 6lbs.
This segment wasnt about the mountain sled. So I didnt push that info. Maybe a good question for the next deep dive series.
I have a meth system on my turbo 1100 cat and it allows me to make 300 hp on pump gas without melting the motor. They have been doing meth injection on cars for decades it's so cool to have grown up on old sleds and see all this new technology trickling down to sleds.
Would you please do a video on polaris boost vs this?
Good video! 👍
Stay tuned!
You already know snowtrax’s answer on which one is better in every way -
@@crujiracing841 Nope.
Polaris boost is lighter by quite a bit so it’ll be tight. My money is on the Polaris boost tho
@@ramrox2460polaris is dry shipping weight, ski doo is ride ready weight, or measure your self for truth.
Can you run it empty??? At low RPM, limping it home? And if so, how long?
From what they have said before even if it’s empty you still have the normal 165hp the 850 N/A has, but you will still have 180hp just as long as your intake air temps stay below whatever the computer is set to spray in the meth.
So what is the weak link, what breaks and what needs updating? That is all we want to know.
My 23 renegade competition is incredible..wonder how this will compare besides the h.p difference ..should have waited a year😅
@skidoo Do they come with a new generation belt? That way with all that power held for that long of a time they won't explode.
Great story, there should have been at least one engineer present to answer questions, one I would have asked, why water methanol injection?
While I understand it cools the intake charge , turbo charging adds heat to the intake based on boost pressure, but water methanol injection has many negatives, like on going cost for the life of the snowmobile, having to use a a special blend made and sold by the manufacture, maintenance cost, as there needs to be filters in the system or the jets would eventually become blocked, running out while miles away and the fact even when diluted with water, antifoaming agent’s and lubrication, methanol and alloys don’t get along as it corrosive!
This is a band aid solution to controlling intake temps , something that was done in the back in world war 2 and in the early days of car supercharging and turbo charging, historically it’s always had its issues.
Then along came inter-cooling and it’s been around and proven since the mid 1980s, the weight of the fluid and pump would not be much more than that of a well designed air to air intercooler and seeing these snow mobiles are driven in very cold weather keeping air intake temps down with an air to air inter cooler would be very easy and in my experience with cars and bikes, turbocharged in winter temps, these lower intake temps make additional power .
Water methanol injection is a been counters choice, where as air to air or water to air inter cooling would be an engineers choice .
I think they dropped the ball on this one and that water meth injection would be a deal breaker in my books, as I have personally lost a car engine to a blocked water jet when the engine needed it the most , it failed.
I guess the after market guys could rectify this issue in time, again an added expense .
Before any one jumps on me saying what would I know, I been in the performance engine game for 34 years, built my first turbo car when I was 19yo, turbo charged many bikes and cars for customers and my self, raced circuit and drags with turbo cars and bikes and for the last ten years of my working life I ran my own performance motorcycle tuning shop with a chassis dyno, where I built fast bikes, with NOS , and turbochargers, never would I have fitted water injection electronically controlled or otherwise, as I would never risk such an expensive engine combo on a cheap water methanol system that could cause it to fail.
And to think there’s a company out there that thinks you want electric can’t wait to see/hear the aftermarket exhaust on these Turbo sleds
Awesome segment. I haven’t ridden in a couple years because of my back. But I might be trading the 17 renegade and that will be last new machine.
You'd be asking alot to throw smart shocks on a sled with no battery. The etecs are already power hungry systems, that stator is going to be constantly running at capacity and there won't be anything there to take some of the load
Can't wait to see how much that proprietary methanol blend costs. That's an "industry first" they can keep.
If I had a dollar for everytime robin went “ehhhh” or “ummm” I’d be able to buy a turbo 850 sled.
Please put this package in a Renegade XRS
Is the water/meth used to control engine temp at all when it’s running hot from low snow conditions or warm days? Or does it control charge air temps only
Strictly air temps.
I would love to be one of the 1000 people to have one of these 🤩
So what happens if you run out of the water injection fluid while getting hot on a lake run? $25 a gallon for the ICE water injection fluid. It can't be that special to have to cost that much. We shall see what people come up with as alternative.
He said it in the video, not specifically how, other than the ECM reduces power.
You can use winter windshield washer fluid. That’s what guy have bin using for years in race car application.
You can buy a pail of methanol and mix it 50/50 with distilled water also.
Brings to mind the old adage “Penny wise, pound foolish”. Cracks me up how you can justify dropping this kind of cash on a high tech sled and then complaining about the comparatively small cost per season of running decent fluids designed for the thing…and then complaining after the thing fails on bargain oil, water injection alternatives or other fluids. No sense whatsoever.
What's the sticker price on one of those in canadian $$.
$24,000 plus tax
@@andrewrowaan5780 I'll take 2, hahaha
One thing that needs to he asked is why can I only get the turbo in yellow? I would order one right now if they weren't only yellow
I wonder how the whole system would react to modifications. More often than not, people are adding bolt on parts. Wonder if that will upset the “balance” and affect longevity.
BMW was using air-con condensation for water injection. I don't know how they dealt with freezing temperatures for storage and fluidity.
How does it compare with Polaris turbo sled ? How is the front end with that shock package ? I like your content and the way you present it.
Makes no sense. I’d argue the injection would be more beneficial to mountain riders, full throttle up steep grades through feet of snow. Constantly high revving
Mountain riders have snow to cool the sled trail riders really don’t especially across lakes
I would be really interested in the real world dry and wet weight of this vs an assault boost! I am guessing wen they claim same weight as the NA it is without the ethanol thank filled.
5:22 highly disagree. I could get 20mpg on trails and a 10 second wide open pull on a lake puts you at dangerously high speeds. Mountain riding = 1 mpg
I did want to adapt the Skidoo Methanol/water injection system to my air cooled Buell Motorcycle engine. Automotive water injections are far too large and bulky for a 1203 CC Motorcycle engine.
Then I found a company that sells a Flex Fuel system. I can boost my Octane with a 50% x 50% mix of E-85 and 87 Octane gasoline , make more power with a Fuel that runs much cooler and costs less plus it can boost Horsepower up to 10%
Snow Performance also sells a 50% x 50% mix of Methanol and water with an anti-corrosive Lubricant in it too.
A Hot engine turns the water to steam and should increase your horsepower some too. Methanal is also a very high octane fuel. More steam and exhaust should turn the Turbo compressor faster.
The question is can guys increase the pop off valve pressure and make more HP?
Seems I heard the Yamaha 4 stroke Turbo sleds could be turned up a lot . They would benefit greatly from the Water/ Meth injection too as opposed to having to use high octane race gasoline,
180 horses! Back in my day 80 horses was intense, I can’t imagine the feeling it must be now 😮
180hp is slow they don't put top end numbers even to the old machine 800 tripple. There whole shot sleds for trails . Not worth the money they won't even hit 115mph in a trail boaring honestly
Yamaha 998 turbo, 200 plus HP, no ethanol required!! RIP Yamacat
Remind me how much did that engine weigh?
Those sleds probably weigh 100lbs more than this will. That 200hp is good for the big end of a lake and nowhere else
2 Stroke?
RIP Yamacat. They made bulletproof reliable motors.
I loved that you could tune them through the roof and get insane horsepower numbers.
I never saw one brand beat them in the horsepower numbers. Except..
There's a reason why Yamaha left the snowmobile market. No sales. Great engine though?? Not according to the market.
It’s good to see the snowmobile manufacturers are following the auto manufacturers and only marketing the high end large profit margin vehicles. Let’s not market to the average man anymore. Fail.
If u are the average working man ..its priced above what most people can afford I bet it's 20k . New sleds are so pricey. I just buy used ones now.
Halfway through the video and I can't my big trap shut any longer. Tractor pullers have been using water to cool their cylinders off for decades. So there's that technology. But what happens when this sled lines up with an old school muscle sled? Ones meant for the lake. I'm talking the latest model xcr 800, a vmax4, and 03 f7, a 98 thundercat???
Washer fluid without detergents will work.
It’s literally $25 for a jug. Depending on driving habits most people won’t burn through a jug in an entire season…. Why can’t people just use XPS in their $30,000 sled??? Makes no sense to me…. You’ve just spent huge money on a new sled and you wanna run washer fluid in it? Crazy.
@@pajamatime5750 run washer fluid in my turbo v8 at 25 pounds of boost for 25000 miles in 5 years of street and drag racing. Works absolutely perfect! P.s. just the motor was 20k to build. Makes 1200 wheel hp on pump gas with the injection system.
Yesh 27.500 ill get right on that . With 1 year warranty. Also 10% interest
Pay cash. Than your interest problems are gone. If you're making payments on a snowmobile your priorities are wack.
I love all of this high horsepower go fast and smooth stuff. But cmon. The prices are astronomical. For base model 600 today you’re basically paying for a top of line 800 in 2015. And if you go back another 8 years it’s even worse. Please make a sled that more people can afford
Mountain sled has a larger cooler do to the longer tunnel, runs in fresh snow, and has a larger paddle that moves more snow across the cooler. That’s why they don’t need it. 😂 I’m no engineer but it’s that simple
Just way too much cash required to ride it
somebody stop the bobble head ha but good vid,informative
I think the launch control is no different than adjusting the engagement through springs to hold 3-5,000 rpm engagement for racing! I prefer to set it up to my type of riding and less electrical issues!!
Only available in a 137…. Was hoping it would be a 129.
They should call it a renegade since it’s a 137
For this model year, Renegades are 4-strokes and MXZ is 2-stroke available in 129 and 137.
Boy did skidoo get us on this one…. Meth tank goes empty in 25-30 miles. Hope for XCR boost next year from Polaris.
Basically admits the special fluid they use is just washer fluid pretty obvious just another way they can make money
Yeah they’re making a pile of money having customers spend $25 on a jug that’ll last a year or two depending on driving! Huge money grab after you’ve just spent $30,000 on a sled!! 🙄
2025 they're coming out with the 1000 XCsTRQ - RSvTZ
2024 and nobody could top the 998 yami but I guess they are engine builder who sub out the chassis portion … going to miss them!
Dude nobody cares about your overweight 4 stroke. ANYONE can make power with a 4 stroke - BRP and Polaris are doing it with 2 strokes.....something Yamaha will never do. lol
I want a comp 850 NA with shot and, mtn sled clean bar set up. Buddy was way wrong with the answer for meth injection is needed at low elevation and not high.
The alcohol injection decreases air inlet temp and allows more ignition timing…. All this is doing here is trying to stop it from blowing up on the lake because of detonation.
Rest assured, these things will spend more time broke at the detailer than on the trail.
Oh mama
Wow😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
As soon as windshield washer fluid was brought up all I heard was stutter stutter stutter. I call bs they just came up with a way to charge a lot for a $3 bottle of washer fluid
Is this sled fast like you say???.. You said the new Mach Z was also Fast. And it turned out as a slow turd !!
that poor girl is going to have a sore neck.
Mountain riders don’t do long wot pulls? Ok..
Far too expensive though
And uhhhhh... and uhhhhhhh.... and uhhhhhhh.... uhhhhh... and uhhhhh nice sled.
Calm down.
the french Canadian anthem
Obviously english isn't his first language
ahahaha its true i think we all do that
I was Gona say same thing.. drives me nuts
I see aftermarket 240hp with that meth system 😊
Nod your head
So skidoo admits before asked that their engine won’t stay together without water-meth-injection 😂…
He calls it a “Novelty”. Nothing “novel” about this sled
Far too complicated, and more to go wrong, for only 180hp, turbo is so much easier. And who cares to carry a bottle of additive when racing down the lake, for the day. 🤔
In 10 years when this technology is phased out, how many years will Ski-Doo continue producing this fluid. This machine will become a first-class paper weight, since it can’t run to its maximum without this fluid. High-maintenance concepts in the woods are the opposite of what you want in a reliable snowmobile. Great in an engineering lab, terrible in practice.
Someone didn't watch the video.
To say that a trail sled needs meth for heat over a mtn sled is pure silly! My t850 has seen up to 2 min wide open and intake temps are high. Brp rep just blowin smoke and didn't answer the question.
i hear NEW, i hear TURBO, i hear BIG PROBLEMS. IM OUT !!!
This turbo motor has been out for a while only thing new is the cooling system
@@trevortank7965 i hear new cooling system, im out. maybe 2025.
@@jongonegone1262 so don’t buy it lol nobody said u had to that’s why they offer other options 😂
Unfortunately, this lead doesn't fit any real niche for Lake running guys, You're gonna stick to the 3-4 cylinder Yamaha. Engines with turbos for trail riding. You're not gonna spend thirty thousand dollars to have 2-3 pounds of boost on a two stroke engine that is not even noticeable. .
I'll stick to arctic cat
180hp is a joke talk to me over 300 hp
Sounds like a DEF system on a new tractor just more stuff to fail lol