I never thought of simplifying a complicated progression to solo over and then adding the changes back in after the fact. What a super cool concept. It might be common for a jazz guy, but as a classical nerd I've never thought to do that. It makes perfect sense as a tool. Thanks for all the great information. You explains things so well. A little fast on first watching but this video is here to study. Thanks. ❤
this is SO COOL. Ive been improvising over the changes from phase dance for almost an hour straight and I keep finding new ideas using your method. Just thinking A major and F major is just so freeing. THANK YOU
When you started playing along with the Jon Coltrane loop, it reminded me of 'BBC Wimbledon Theme (Light and Tuneful)' - Tennis. The phrasing of your play along jam solos were all lovely. The Beatrice example with the flipped chords was a perfect example. Yes you make me want to play jazz! I also need to better learn my musical theory, for pleasure.
The chords at the end of Herbie Hancocks "Tell Me A Bed Time Story" also feature this phenomenon. Bmaj7 Gmaj7 Emaj7 Cmaj7. If one thinks B to be I then its: I of Bmajor, I of Gmajor, IV of Bmajor and IV of Gmajor. So the major chords are forming a stucture that switches between tonalities in a chromatic mediant realitonship.
Mate your 'sillyness' is something I could listen to forever. This video got me so excited and curious to play and understand your way of understanding relationships in harmony. Seeing you sharing this so passionately and authentic, it makes me feel hopeful for musicians to strive for a common passion and grateful for seeing how open and happy people are to share with each other. Thank you Noel Johnston and success verder!
They’re both college-educated musicians, so they’re probably on par with one another as far as theory goes. The important part is that what they’re doing is sharing bits and pieces of what they learned from years of studying this stuff
i was having a good time until i saw your handle pic... is that a flagpole made of skulls? whatever. this guy puts rick to shame. i didn't study music theory and figured this stuff out on my own using someone else's engineering paper
Hello, that is called REFLECTING MODES.... The modes have reciprocal structures, when they are inverted they are transformed, that is, the inversion of one turns it into another. If you invert the intervallic structure of the Lydian mode, for example, that is, you begin to build its structure from right to left, the result is the intervallic structure of the Locrian mode, this means that they are reflective. If the intervallic structure of the Ionian mode is inverted, the Phrygian mode is obtained, and if the intervallic structure of the Mixolydian mode is inverted, the Aeolian mode is obtained. The Doric mode is neutral because if it is inverted, the same structure results. Thanks for the video, very interesting.
The discussion on the reflexive properties of the modes is already covered in Noel's part 1 video, "Why 'Chromatic Mediants' sound so good!" (although still mainly focusing on the Ionian - Phrygian relationship). This video is just a follow up, offering examples which subtly contain these relationships by way of major key centres a major third apart.
@@JDhomieG It seems you may have gleaned the basic idea regarding Dorian & reflection, however, I would suggest that the statement by ArmoniaApplicada is potentially misleading in its wording. It is NOT so that Dorian "doesn't have reflection". It DOES have A reflection, being ITSELF. 'Neutral' does not convey this idea very clearly either, since it implies 'active' and 'passive' polarities which don't necessarily have any clear meaning or direct application in outlining the reflections. There is ALWAYS a reflection for EVERY interval configuration possible. SOME configurations are their OWN reflection, as is the case with Dorian. Another example, of a self-reflecting configuration is the Aeolian Dominant (= Mixolydian b6) mode, which is the 5th mode (= 4th 'rotation') of the Melodic Minor scale : TTSTSTT. In both cases (Dorian & Aeolian Dominant / Mixolydian b6), there are TWO centres of reflection : (1) At their 'tonic' / root / i ; and, (2) At the TRITONE of/from the tonic ( - which is NOT present as a note in the scale, and is therefore a 'ghost' centre). [ Note : Some centres of reflection may be a 'note' (pitch-class), and some may be an interval BETWEEN two notes]. Certain scales, essentially those identified by French composer Olivier Messian as 'Modes of Limited Transposition', have, not only inherent self-reflexive symmetry, but also exact repetitions of particular modal interval sequences, although, at different transpositions / on different tonics. This means they can only be transposed a limited number of times before repeating the exact same pitch content. [ Please note : I can acertain that ArmoniaAplicada understands the situation with these scale reflections, but I don't see that they have conveyed the information accurately to you. Nevertheless, the 'neutral' idea may have caused you to see the inherent self-reflection for yourself. Hopefully, I have clarified the details a little better for you. - All the best studying these properties. ]
This is a fantastic and eye-opening way to look and chord changes. I've heard this sound in so many places and always kind of thought of the Cmaj7 to Abmaj7 sound as a disguised change to a parallel minor chord, but I love this concept and it leads to so many other creative options as well. Thank you for sharing!
The number "9" has always grabbed my attention as something pretty crucial. You ought to take a look at Rodin's vortex mathematics-it's remarkably akin. Sure, many academics brush it off as pseudo-math, but it's intriguing how we can trace these ideas all the way back to stuff like Pythagorean scales and more.
Check out the visualization of the fretboard with the 7 3 nps and 5 traditional caged shapes with negative harmony in mind. (This does not work for the 7 Berekely major scale shapes.) D Dorian is in the center. That Berkeley Ionian shape is semtrical (w the repeated g note) All the shapes mirror each other on both sides of that! D Dorian 3 nps is B locrian 3nps (upside down) E phrygian 3 nps is A aeolian 3nps upside down) F Lydian 3 nps shape is literally Lydian upside down. Etc mix shape/phry shape, aeol shape/ dor shape, loc 3nps/ion 3nps. So negative harmony in Dorian is as simple as playing it upside down and backwards on guitar! I have never seen or heard of the fretboard visualization taught this way. Now that I see it I can't unsee it. Works with the traditional 5 shapes too but not Berkeley scale systems Dorian shape w 2 notes on the a string is locrian shape w 2 notes on the b string upside down. Phrgian shape w 2 notes on the g string is aeolian shape w 2 notes on the d string upside down. Mixolydian w 2 notes on the e string is itself upside down. I'm thinking when playing negative harmony in the other modes its a simple as shifting patterns and playing it upside down and backwards. This is really out in left field! I hope it makes sense! What do you think? Horace kept calling that shape semetrical and I was studying it knowing Dorian is in the center and semetrical and it all hit.
Cool fun eh? It's worth clarifying, though, that 'negative harmony' is not simply a case of inverting a scale from its tonic to get another one, and using that for alternative chords. As conceived by Ernst Levy (the first to use and explain the term), 'negative harmony' is also about reciprocity of TONAL FUNCTION - meaning the relationships of chords in progressions to a tonic. Although it involves mirror image shapes, and some amount of bi-tonal basis, it is primarily about resolution to a single key centre, through RECIPROCAL FUNCTIONS. Levy's conception of this was very much as an extension to traditional major / minor harmony. The Levy conception also chiefly pits Aeolian against Ionian to achieve those sets of relationships, not Phrygian. If you haven't already, check out his book ( - as opposed to videos of others re-interpreting it). Also, one of the best contemporary jazz exponents of reflexive inversion and 'negative harmony' is alto saxophonist, composer, and theorist, Steve Coleman. His website is full of great theoretical info and examples of applications. Also, a fun fact : There are several types of 'SYMMETRY'. The mirror image type, known as reflexive ('reflective') symmetry is just ONE type. For example, the mere act of transposing any given mode, shape , or line is ALSO 'symmetry', specifically 'translational' symmetry - meaning, it is still the same when 'translated' ('transferred') to another 'position' - in this case, a new pitch. If a rhythm is played at double or half speed, this also produces translational symmetry. The act of isolating the 7 modes of the 'major scale' is a classic case of 'rotational' symmetry - as in, the beginning point (or 'centre') of the scale's structure is shunted along one step, but the mode inherently retains the same interval sequence when 'looped' (ie. continuing beyond the octave). Even with reflexive symmetry, as related to musical pitch, there are two types : reflective inversion, and retrogradation - the first transpires on the level of 'SPACE' (pitch depth & height, being on a 'VERTICAL' axis), the second on the level of 'TIME' ('sequential order' IN time, or in HORIZONTAL, linear 'space'). Therefore it is worth being more specific about what 'symmetrical' is actually referring to, in order to be accurate and avoid confusion, but also to be more consciously aware of the other 'symmetries', since music exhibits them all. There are plenty of articles etc. on the net about this if you're interested - just search "types of symmetry". One last fun fact : The scale known as the 'Major Bebop' scale, or '(Major) Sixth - Diminished (7th)' scale (as per jazz pianist & educator Barry Harris' harmonic conceptions', is also it's own reflection. This is because it is basically the Dorian mode, with TWO centres of reflection - one at the tonic (D for D Dorian), and one at the tonic's tritone (Ab for D Dorian). The self-reflection occurs when the tritone center becomes the tonic (ie. G#/Ab). Pretty cool huh? [ NB : 'Sub-fun fact' : The two notes D & Ab are actually the reflective centres for the piano keyboard in the purely structural sense (regardless of any musical considerations), since D sits in between the pairs of black notes, and Ab is the central black note of each trio of black notes]. Keep having fun with the shapes and symmetry - it's good for us!
@@jazzwarrior7206 Waiting to learn something from this... Sub-fun fact, that's new. There it is. I didn't realize the 6th dim scale has 2 reflective points. Cool! My point was, it's alot harder to see the reflection on guitar but it's there. Yes I'm aware of the different types of negative harmony and the confusion to the point I label them mirror harmony, negative harmony and any axis harmony. Thanks for sharing
@@jazzwarrior7206 I knew Dorian, mixolydian b6, double harmonic major and neapolitan major are the 4 palindrone scales but I haven't given much thought to 8 note scales. The 6th dim scale is a really clever concept but I haven't found alot of use for it for guitarist. I know there's alot more to it and very useful in jazz. Are any of the other bebop scales (theres alot) double mirrored like that?
Phrygian b4 should be used more! I really like the idea of combining intervals from both key centers and using scales like neapolitan major, mix b6, dbl harm maj, phry b4! BRILLIANT! GREAT WORK!
I find myself doing this. The changing of tonal center is as good as playing outside in it's ability to alter the tonal center and shift the musicality. I'm fascinated with jazz but like all art it's a life long pursuit. In popular music where not used to Big leaps in the key changes. It reminds me of a Santana quote about Trane "his music could change your malecular structure". Weather it's pedal tone static chord spiritual undertaking or tonal moving target this stuff really is what gets me there musically now. Thank you!
When you play just the chords of the key and solo over them it always sounds like comedy music where the main character is dopily going about his business, and then when you put the “beautiful” chords in, everything changed by creating a contextual background, with all the same solo notes in the looper! And yes, I’ve seen a jazz nerd or two mention “Beatrice” and “Giant Steps”.
Exploring Ian Ring's scales site, it seems that those more "pointy" scales/modes you mention have really fun "flippenings": Harmonic Minor Mixolydian b2 Harmonic Major Phrygian Dominant Dorian b2 Melodic Minor Lydian Dominant Half-diminished etc Also really curious about how the "demented" concept you touched upon on a previous video might relate to this, as it appears to relate harmonic major and minor scales by a minor third apart. I suppose the chromatic mediant thing might have to do with how an octave divides exactly by either 3 augmented (maj 3rds) or 4 diminished (min 3rds) triads?
I have a question sir Noel, when you flip dorian, is still dorian, lydian is locrian myxolydian is aeolian. But is there a use of the other pitch class inversion for the other modes?
Great approach to tunes! Also, really nice playing Noel, sounding great! I was thinking that "Tristé" by Jobim might be an example as well. It begins on a a Bb then moves to Gb.
I always just saw the Dameron kind of turnaround as a 1-6-2-5 with tritone subs for the 6-2-5. Monk’s “Brilliant Corners” is built around something similar.
Love harmony sudoku. One of my fave reflections (flippenings) is harmonic major (ionian b6) to phrygian dominant. A harmonic major already has F lydian #2 so it gives you 2 major 7's a major third apart. Reflecting gives you A phrygian dominant or Bb lydian #2 so you get some nice shifting major 7 sounds in there. Also, this reflection can sound pretty subtle since A ionian and A phrygian only have 3 common tones (A,D,E 1,4 and 5) but A harmonic major and A phrygian dominant have 5 common tones (A,C#,D,E,F 1,3,4,5,b6). An easy way to remember the reflected modes is to see that for the major scale the mode pairs always add up to 4 mod 7 (1,3) (2,2) (5,6) (4,7). For melodic minor the pairs add up to 3 mod 7 (1,2) (3,7) (4,6) (5,5). And my fave, harmonic major/minor the pairs add up to 6 mod 7 (1,5) (2,4) (3,3) (6,7) but one is from the major harmonic and the other is from the minor harmonic since this is a chiral scale. Keep on flippen.
@@jacklutz588 Chiral means a reflection can not create a rotation. Think of an isocoles triangle. If you flip a copy of it over you can rotate it to lie exactly on top of the original copy. A scalene triangle flipped over will never lie exactly on top of its original. This is due to an axis of reflection which allows a symmetry. A major scale has an axis of reflection (think of the dorian mode which is a palindrome), this means any rotation (mode) can be achieved by reflection or rotation. By contrast, the harmonic minor scale has no axis of symmetry and therefore its reflection will never equal a rotation or mode of the harmonic minor scale. It's reflection is called the harmonic major scale. In chemistry or math this is sometimes referred to as "handedness", i.e. left hand/right hand. As for how I learned this stuff, it involved a pen, a pad of paper and many hours sitting in a hard chair mapping out as much as I could. Then a few years learning every mode of every scale all over the neck. It wasn't easy but worthwhile things seldom are.
Hi Noel, I just wanted to say that I really enjoy the sound you get from your Tele. Are the pickups stock? One additional question, if you don’t mind answering, what is your signal chain? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Using the tonic as the reflection point we get phrygian. Use the fifth instead, we get aeolian. Negative harmony generally refers to this aeolian case. We might think of Ab and Eb as cousin keys to C. Parallel transformation by Major thirds or minor thirds.
As far as I know you can use this with all modes though. Borrowing chords from all C parallel modes. C phryg, C lyd, C mixo, C dori... so in the end C is related to more than just Ab and Eb...
Yes, all modes possible. Aeolian and Phrygian are the ones I've found particularly compelling though. The key shift by a third seems Important @@sixmillionaccountssilenced6721
Thanks! For note taking, I was using Goodnotes. For the scale picker thing later on in the video, I’m using a web app on my website: www.noeljohnston.com/voicingmodeswebapp1.html
Flippening basics! Nice way to solo! Need to go back and review your definition of how to derivethe 'Flip'...otherwise, I'm lost! Can relate to the playing the changes and definate modes. Trouble with the math....practice..practice...etc Tnxs Noel
There isn't really math per se, but his first vid did have a nice visualization of interval distances on a circle... But I think just practicing phrygian with major is a good start.
spin each mode 180 degrees on the fret board gets you it's pitch class inverted mirrored mode (ionian spins to phrygian.. mixolydian spins to aeolian.. lydian spins to locrian) dorian is the only mode that stays the same, isometric, self similar.. cool beans
That's really clever! It works! I just realized all the major modes 7 3nps systems have upside down mirrors of themselves on the fretboard. I never noticed this before or heard of anyone pointing it out. Dorian is in the center. Works with the 5 traditional caged type shapes also but Not the 7 Berkeley shapes.
I'm flipping out over The Flippening. Unfortunately I don't completely understand it. It would be helpful if you put PDFs of the illustrations to look at ponderously until the epiphany.
3:43 Cmaj ??? then why do you play a D in the cord ? it's really hard to follow when your a beginner 3:47 there is no way this is an Ab Major , more like an Ab 6 or something
You are correct in that they are not mere triads, however, they are ‘major chords’ with various amounts of color. The lesson is not really aimed at teaching that stuff, but you can add stylistically appropriate amounts of color-tones based on chord “function”
@@nohjoh08 still a good video to learn stuffs (I'll indeed focus more on chord functions) btw (lady bird), you say the 2nd chord is Em7 while I found on many other sources it is supposed to be a Fb7 also, just for the C^7 , I found tons of different people variations ...still a long way to go for me 🙂
how the hell flipping something twice does'nt get back to the first key ??? why is it B->G->Eb ?? and not B->G->B ??? could this be more cryptic and confusing ?
lol. Sorry. If you flip it twice from the same rotation yes, you’ll get what you started with, but there’s a mix of flips and rotations: B major flipped to B Phrygian, which relates to G major. After a rotation to G major, it then flips to G Phrygian, which relates to Eb major. After a rotation to Eb major, it then flips to Eb Phrygian which relates (enharmonically) to B.
These particular examples are the G Ionian to G Phrygian method (Gmaj/Emin to Ebmajor/Cmin), but that doesn’t mean you can’t experiment or look for opportunities to try the Emin to Emix flip (or other modes to flip)
The inverted intervals of B major get you a B Phrygian (3rd mode of G major). E minor is just the relative minor of G, so you’re also correct, we’re just “flipping” differently.
Thank you for the response, this is making much more sense to me now, I sat down at the piano and watched this playing along with the tunes and I understand what you mean. This is a great idea by the way. Also great song choices.@@nohjoh08
You do end up with chords built from the major scale on the flat 6. That's not the whole deal though. Its not straight transposition. Reflect the intervals down. C two tones up to E, then a tone and a half up to G gives us a C major triad. C DOWN two tones to Ab then two more to F gives an F minor triad. For D minor, D is a tone above C, so we start a tone below on Bb. Then a minor third down G, and anothe major third down to Eb. D minor triad flips to Eb major triad.
I thought mixolydian flipped to phrygian, aeolian to ionian, dorian to lydian , locrian no opposite. At least that's how it worked out when I tried it.
What you described is natural harmony Lyd/dor Ion/aeol Mix/phry Negative harmony with axis on the interval aka mirror harmony. the intervals are the same in both directions. Lyd/loc Ion/phry Mix/aeol Dor/dor If you use the axis between the root and 5th on the circle of 5ths the negative pairs are: Lyd/phry Ion/aeol Mix/dor Loc pairs with loc next key over. There is also an any axis or movable axis negative harmony theory where you can move the axis anywhere between the intervals or on the intervals to harmonize with all 12 keys. Personally, I just use the first 3 as natural harmony, mirror harmony and negative harmony.
@@sixmillionaccountssilenced6721 you know, major and minor is ionian and aeolian. One harmonizes with the other or vice versa. The other major scale modes have a natural harmony also.
I never thought of simplifying a complicated progression to solo over and then adding the changes back in after the fact. What a super cool concept. It might be common for a jazz guy, but as a classical nerd I've never thought to do that. It makes perfect sense as a tool. Thanks for all the great information. You explains things so well. A little fast on first watching but this video is here to study. Thanks. ❤
What a legend, talking nothing but unadulterated fax for 45 minutes and ending with ok bye
this is SO COOL. Ive been improvising over the changes from phase dance for almost an hour straight and I keep finding new ideas using your method. Just thinking A major and F major is just so freeing. THANK YOU
Finally a theory person who plays ! Love your music. Thanks!
When you started playing along with the Jon Coltrane loop, it reminded me of 'BBC Wimbledon Theme (Light and Tuneful)' - Tennis.
The phrasing of your play along jam solos were all lovely. The Beatrice example with the flipped chords was a perfect example. Yes you make me want to play jazz! I also need to better learn my musical theory, for pleasure.
The flipping definitely enchanted my chord progressions
The chords at the end of Herbie Hancocks "Tell Me A Bed Time Story" also feature this phenomenon. Bmaj7 Gmaj7 Emaj7 Cmaj7. If one thinks B to be I then its: I of Bmajor, I of Gmajor, IV of Bmajor and IV of Gmajor. So the major chords are forming a stucture that switches between tonalities in a chromatic mediant realitonship.
Great example! Thank you!
Mate your 'sillyness' is something I could listen to forever. This video got me so excited and curious to play and understand your way of understanding relationships in harmony. Seeing you sharing this so passionately and authentic, it makes me feel hopeful for musicians to strive for a common passion and grateful for seeing how open and happy people are to share with each other. Thank you Noel Johnston and success verder!
This is something I am really considering incorporating heavily into writing style. Very eye opening lesson, thank you!
Lol, who is this guy? He should be teaching Rick Beato music theory. hahaha
Hell yah get those two in a room!
Thats what im saying🤣
They’re both college-educated musicians, so they’re probably on par with one another as far as theory goes.
The important part is that what they’re doing is sharing bits and pieces of what they learned from years of studying this stuff
Rick is awesome, this guy is just a bit better at his visualizations and explanations, probably helps this guy is a bit younger
i was having a good time until i saw your handle pic... is that a flagpole made of skulls?
whatever. this guy puts rick to shame. i didn't study music theory and figured this stuff out on my own using someone else's engineering paper
Beautiful tone!
Hello, that is called REFLECTING MODES.... The modes have reciprocal structures, when they are inverted they are transformed, that is, the inversion of one turns it into another. If you invert the intervallic structure of the Lydian mode, for example, that is, you begin to build its structure from right to left, the result is the intervallic structure of the Locrian mode, this means that they are reflective. If the intervallic structure of the Ionian mode is inverted, the Phrygian mode is obtained, and if the intervallic structure of the Mixolydian mode is inverted, the Aeolian mode is obtained. The Doric mode is neutral because if it is inverted, the same structure results. Thanks for the video, very interesting.
The discussion on the reflexive properties of the modes is already covered in Noel's part 1 video, "Why 'Chromatic Mediants' sound so good!" (although still mainly focusing on the Ionian - Phrygian relationship). This video is just a follow up, offering examples which subtly contain these relationships by way of major key centres a major third apart.
What is the reflection of Dorian?
@@JDhomieG Dorian Is neutral... Doesn't have reflection
@@ArmoniaAplicada aahh I see. Thank you.
@@JDhomieG It seems you may have gleaned the basic idea regarding Dorian & reflection, however, I would suggest that the statement by ArmoniaApplicada is potentially misleading in its wording.
It is NOT so that Dorian "doesn't have reflection". It DOES have A reflection, being ITSELF.
'Neutral' does not convey this idea very clearly either, since it implies 'active' and 'passive' polarities which don't necessarily have any clear meaning or direct application in outlining the reflections.
There is ALWAYS a reflection for EVERY interval configuration possible. SOME configurations are their OWN reflection, as is the case with Dorian.
Another example, of a self-reflecting configuration is the Aeolian Dominant (= Mixolydian b6) mode, which is the 5th mode (= 4th 'rotation') of the Melodic Minor scale : TTSTSTT.
In both cases (Dorian & Aeolian Dominant / Mixolydian b6), there are TWO centres of reflection :
(1) At their 'tonic' / root / i ; and, (2) At the TRITONE of/from the tonic ( - which is NOT present as a note in the scale, and is therefore a 'ghost' centre).
[ Note : Some centres of reflection may be a 'note' (pitch-class), and some may be an interval BETWEEN two notes].
Certain scales, essentially those identified by French composer Olivier Messian as 'Modes of Limited Transposition', have, not only inherent self-reflexive symmetry, but also exact repetitions of particular modal interval sequences, although, at different transpositions / on different tonics.
This means they can only be transposed a limited number of times before repeating the exact same pitch content.
[ Please note : I can acertain that ArmoniaAplicada understands the situation with these scale reflections, but I don't see that they have conveyed the information accurately to you.
Nevertheless, the 'neutral' idea may have caused you to see the inherent self-reflection for yourself.
Hopefully, I have clarified the details a little better for you. - All the best studying these properties. ]
That flippening video got me into you! Keep making succinct videos about this topic, and expand on it! Thank you Noel!
All my favorite tunes....thanks
Thank you. This stretches my brain into places I didn’t know it could be stretched. Excellent! ☮️
Beatrice has never been so easy to understand and play over. Thanks Noel ⚡️🙏
This is a fantastic and eye-opening way to look and chord changes. I've heard this sound in so many places and always kind of thought of the Cmaj7 to Abmaj7 sound as a disguised change to a parallel minor chord, but I love this concept and it leads to so many other creative options as well. Thank you for sharing!
Loved the lesson and learned so much but wow..... what a player. Absolutely love your lines.
Inspiring stuff, Noel. A breath of fresh air.
You got skills man i hope and expect to see your channel grow a lot! :0
I didn’t know I was gonna sit through the whole 45 minute video but it was just so interesting! Awesome
"Some people didn't like it." They should go look at something they like. I LOVE it. Just keep going. I'll buy your book.
The number "9" has always grabbed my attention as something pretty crucial. You ought to take a look at Rodin's vortex mathematics-it's remarkably akin. Sure, many academics brush it off as pseudo-math, but it's intriguing how we can trace these ideas all the way back to stuff like Pythagorean scales and more.
Check out the visualization of the fretboard with the 7 3 nps and 5 traditional caged shapes with negative harmony in mind. (This does not work for the 7 Berekely major scale shapes.)
D Dorian is in the center. That Berkeley Ionian shape is semtrical (w the repeated g note) All the shapes mirror each other on both sides of that! D Dorian 3 nps is B locrian 3nps (upside down) E phrygian 3 nps is A aeolian 3nps upside down) F Lydian 3 nps shape is literally Lydian upside down. Etc mix shape/phry shape, aeol shape/ dor shape, loc 3nps/ion 3nps.
So negative harmony in Dorian is as simple as playing it upside down and backwards on guitar!
I have never seen or heard of the fretboard visualization taught this way.
Now that I see it I can't unsee it.
Works with the traditional 5 shapes too but not Berkeley scale systems
Dorian shape w 2 notes on the a string is locrian shape w 2 notes on the b string upside down.
Phrgian shape w 2 notes on the g string is aeolian shape w 2 notes on the d string upside down.
Mixolydian w 2 notes on the e string is itself upside down.
I'm thinking when playing negative harmony in the other modes its a simple as shifting patterns and playing it upside down and backwards.
This is really out in left field! I hope it makes sense!
What do you think?
Horace kept calling that shape semetrical and I was studying it knowing Dorian is in the center and semetrical and it all hit.
Cool fun eh? It's worth clarifying, though, that 'negative harmony' is not simply a case of inverting a scale from its tonic to get another one, and using that for alternative chords.
As conceived by Ernst Levy (the first to use and explain the term), 'negative harmony' is also about reciprocity of TONAL FUNCTION - meaning the relationships of chords in progressions to a tonic.
Although it involves mirror image shapes, and some amount of bi-tonal basis, it is primarily about resolution to a single key centre, through RECIPROCAL FUNCTIONS. Levy's conception of this was very much as an extension to traditional major / minor harmony.
The Levy conception also chiefly pits Aeolian against Ionian to achieve those sets of relationships, not Phrygian.
If you haven't already, check out his book ( - as opposed to videos of others re-interpreting it).
Also, one of the best contemporary jazz exponents of reflexive inversion and 'negative harmony' is alto saxophonist, composer, and theorist, Steve Coleman. His website is full of great theoretical info and examples of applications.
Also, a fun fact : There are several types of 'SYMMETRY'. The mirror image type, known as reflexive ('reflective') symmetry is just ONE type. For example, the mere act of transposing any given mode, shape , or line is ALSO 'symmetry', specifically 'translational' symmetry - meaning, it is still the same when 'translated' ('transferred') to another 'position' - in this case, a new pitch.
If a rhythm is played at double or half speed, this also produces translational symmetry.
The act of isolating the 7 modes of the 'major scale' is a classic case of 'rotational' symmetry - as in, the beginning point (or 'centre') of the scale's structure is shunted along one step, but the mode inherently retains the same interval sequence when 'looped' (ie. continuing beyond the octave).
Even with reflexive symmetry, as related to musical pitch, there are two types : reflective inversion, and retrogradation - the first transpires on the level of 'SPACE' (pitch depth & height, being on a 'VERTICAL' axis), the second on the level of 'TIME' ('sequential order' IN time, or in HORIZONTAL, linear 'space').
Therefore it is worth being more specific about what 'symmetrical' is actually referring to, in order to be accurate and avoid confusion, but also to be more consciously aware of the other 'symmetries', since music exhibits them all. There are plenty of articles etc. on the net about this if you're interested - just search "types of symmetry".
One last fun fact : The scale known as the 'Major Bebop' scale, or '(Major) Sixth - Diminished (7th)' scale (as per jazz pianist & educator Barry Harris' harmonic conceptions', is also it's own reflection.
This is because it is basically the Dorian mode, with TWO centres of reflection - one at the tonic (D for D Dorian), and one at the tonic's tritone (Ab for D Dorian). The self-reflection occurs when the tritone center becomes the tonic (ie. G#/Ab). Pretty cool huh?
[ NB : 'Sub-fun fact' : The two notes D & Ab are actually the reflective centres for the piano keyboard in the purely structural sense (regardless of any musical considerations), since D sits in between the pairs of black notes, and Ab is the central black note of each trio of black notes].
Keep having fun with the shapes and symmetry - it's good for us!
@@jazzwarrior7206 Waiting to learn something from this...
Sub-fun fact, that's new.
There it is.
I didn't realize the 6th dim scale has 2 reflective points.
Cool!
My point was, it's alot harder to see the reflection on guitar but it's there.
Yes I'm aware of the different types of negative harmony and the confusion to the point I label them mirror harmony, negative harmony and any axis harmony.
Thanks for sharing
@@jazzwarrior7206
I knew Dorian, mixolydian b6, double harmonic major and neapolitan major are the 4 palindrone scales but I haven't given much thought to 8 note scales.
The 6th dim scale is a really clever concept but I haven't found alot of use for it for guitarist. I know there's alot more to it and very useful in jazz.
Are any of the other bebop scales (theres alot) double mirrored like that?
Phrygian b4 should be used more! I really like the idea of combining intervals from both key centers and using scales like neapolitan major, mix b6, dbl harm maj, phry b4!
BRILLIANT!
GREAT WORK!
I find myself doing this. The changing of tonal center is as good as playing outside in it's ability to alter the tonal center and shift the musicality. I'm fascinated with jazz but like all art it's a life long pursuit. In popular music where not used to Big leaps in the key changes. It reminds me of a Santana quote about Trane "his music could change your malecular structure". Weather it's pedal tone static chord spiritual undertaking or tonal moving target this stuff really is what gets me there musically now. Thank you!
Scales---->chords---->ears....nice summation!
Very effective demonstrations, well done! This is beautiful stuff.
When you play just the chords of the key and solo over them it always sounds like comedy music where the main character is dopily going about his business, and then when you put the “beautiful” chords in, everything changed by creating a contextual background, with all the same solo notes in the looper! And yes, I’ve seen a jazz nerd or two mention “Beatrice” and “Giant Steps”.
You’re awesome and so helpful
Amazing. Thank you! Subbed
Exploring Ian Ring's scales site, it seems that those more "pointy" scales/modes you mention have really fun "flippenings":
Harmonic Minor Mixolydian b2
Harmonic Major Phrygian Dominant
Dorian b2 Melodic Minor
Lydian Dominant Half-diminished
etc
Also really curious about how the "demented" concept you touched upon on a previous video might relate to this, as it appears to relate harmonic major and minor scales by a minor third apart. I suppose the chromatic mediant thing might have to do with how an octave divides exactly by either 3 augmented (maj 3rds) or 4 diminished (min 3rds) triads?
your T-shirt man is self-explanatory. Very clever!😎
😀
Love these lessons. I had already subscribed, but if I hadn’t I totally would have at the “transpose button” bit.
I have a question sir Noel, when you flip dorian, is still dorian, lydian is locrian myxolydian is aeolian. But is there a use of the other pitch class inversion for the other modes?
Great approach to tunes! Also, really nice playing Noel, sounding great! I was thinking that "Tristé" by Jobim might be an example as well. It begins on a a Bb then moves to Gb.
I want to play jazz!
Grassy - the transpose button is flippin awesome - Spike 👍
I always just saw the Dameron kind of turnaround as a 1-6-2-5 with tritone subs for the 6-2-5. Monk’s “Brilliant Corners” is built around something similar.
My notepad looks like a prop from A Beautiful Mind.
I’ll definitely check out your book(s). Thank you 🙏🙏🙏
crazy cool, Noel!
Masterclass.
Love harmony sudoku. One of my fave reflections (flippenings) is harmonic major (ionian b6) to phrygian dominant. A harmonic major already has F lydian #2 so it gives you 2 major 7's a major third apart. Reflecting gives you A phrygian dominant or Bb lydian #2 so you get some nice shifting major 7 sounds in there. Also, this reflection can sound pretty subtle since A ionian and A phrygian only have 3 common tones (A,D,E 1,4 and 5) but A harmonic major and A phrygian dominant have 5 common tones (A,C#,D,E,F 1,3,4,5,b6).
An easy way to remember the reflected modes is to see that for the major scale the mode pairs always add up to 4 mod 7 (1,3) (2,2) (5,6) (4,7).
For melodic minor the pairs add up to 3 mod 7 (1,2) (3,7) (4,6) (5,5). And my fave, harmonic major/minor the pairs add up to 6 mod 7 (1,5) (2,4) (3,3) (6,7) but one is from the major harmonic and the other is from the minor harmonic since this is a chiral scale. Keep on flippen.
What is a chiral scale and how did you go about learning this stuf?
@@jacklutz588 Chiral means a reflection can not create a rotation. Think of an isocoles triangle. If you flip a copy of it over you can rotate it to lie exactly on top of the original copy. A scalene triangle flipped over will never lie exactly on top of its original. This is due to an axis of reflection which allows a symmetry. A major scale has an axis of reflection (think of the dorian mode which is a palindrome), this means any rotation (mode) can be achieved by reflection or rotation. By contrast, the harmonic minor scale has no axis of symmetry and therefore its reflection will never equal a rotation or mode of the harmonic minor scale. It's reflection is called the harmonic major scale. In chemistry or math this is sometimes referred to as "handedness", i.e. left hand/right hand.
As for how I learned this stuff, it involved a pen, a pad of paper and many hours sitting in a hard chair mapping out as much as I could. Then a few years learning every mode of every scale all over the neck. It wasn't easy but worthwhile things seldom are.
The g eb b bit sounded like someone circling around a point, or a child just living.
This thing had me lost so many brain cells....you bring me a step closer to the core is fortunate...XD
Pitches really do be flippin
Hi Noel, I just wanted to say that I really enjoy the sound you get from your Tele. Are the pickups stock? One additional question, if you don’t mind answering, what is your signal chain? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Using the tonic as the reflection point we get phrygian. Use the fifth instead, we get aeolian. Negative harmony generally refers to this aeolian case.
We might think of Ab and Eb as cousin keys to C. Parallel transformation by Major thirds or minor thirds.
As far as I know you can use this with all modes though. Borrowing chords from all C parallel modes. C phryg, C lyd, C mixo, C dori... so in the end C is related to more than just Ab and Eb...
Yes, all modes possible. Aeolian and Phrygian are the ones I've found particularly compelling though. The key shift by a third seems Important
@@sixmillionaccountssilenced6721
What a great lesson. New to your channel, it’s amazing. By the way your guitar sound is really sweet- what are you playing through?
Thank you, Ben! Love your playing!
I’m playing through my Kemper here. (Michael Britt profile of a 3rd power clean patch)
@@nohjoh08 didn’t see that coming! Was thinking some custom hand wired deluxe thing. Oh and thanks:)
maybe Alan Pasqua's Fred song an example such as Flying in a Blue Dream?
That Tele sounds beautiful
Killin! What app are you using?
Thanks! For note taking, I was using Goodnotes.
For the scale picker thing later on in the video, I’m using a web app on my website: www.noeljohnston.com/voicingmodeswebapp1.html
Flippening basics!
Nice way to solo!
Need to go back and review your definition of how to derivethe 'Flip'...otherwise, I'm lost!
Can relate to the playing the changes and definate modes.
Trouble with the math....practice..practice...etc
Tnxs Noel
There isn't really math per se, but his first vid did have a nice visualization of interval distances on a circle... But I think just practicing phrygian with major is a good start.
The flippening is happening! Pitches beware
I am convinced the ear is a muscle too. Develop good ear muscle memory and you're golden. :)
23:00 cool
spin each mode 180 degrees on the fret board gets you it's pitch class inverted mirrored mode (ionian spins to phrygian.. mixolydian spins to aeolian.. lydian spins to locrian) dorian is the only mode that stays the same, isometric, self similar.. cool beans
I believe Mixolydian b6 is also palindromic
@@JoaoLouro-i9n yep.. shaped like a flying saucer 🎸:) sounds Hinduesque
Yeah Charukeshi / Carukesi is its indian raga name I think, ua-cam.com/video/HPdg75gadgc/v-deo.html
@@JoaoLouro-i9n cool, learned something new.. gratsi.. also just played it with flat 2 instead of normal 2.. sounds even more eastern
That's really clever! It works!
I just realized all the major modes 7 3nps systems have upside down mirrors of themselves on the fretboard.
I never noticed this before or heard of anyone pointing it out.
Dorian is in the center.
Works with the 5 traditional caged type shapes also but Not the 7 Berkeley shapes.
I'm flipping out over The Flippening. Unfortunately I don't completely understand it. It would be helpful if you put PDFs of the illustrations to look at ponderously until the epiphany.
❤
So... Mixo b6 is flipping IMMUNE?! I mean, ahem, flippening immune?
And we need to talk about that shirt.
So Cmaj (Ionian) is to Abmaj (Phrygian) so D Dorian is to ? Does that make sense? Great video!
Do all the modes flip to another “negative” mode?
Sure!
Locrian flips to Lydian
Aeolian flips to Mixolydian
Dorian is a palindrome, so it flips to Dorian
which pickups are those? they sound great!
What we really want to know is where did you get that shirt 😊
“On my body!”
3:43 Cmaj ??? then why do you play a D in the cord ?
it's really hard to follow when your a beginner
3:47 there is no way this is an Ab Major , more like an Ab 6 or something
You are correct in that they are not mere triads, however, they are ‘major chords’ with various amounts of color. The lesson is not really aimed at teaching that stuff, but you can add stylistically appropriate amounts of color-tones based on chord “function”
@@nohjoh08
still a good video to learn stuffs (I'll indeed focus more on chord functions)
btw (lady bird), you say the 2nd chord is Em7 while I found on many other sources it is supposed to be a Fb7
also, just for the C^7 , I found tons of different people variations ...still a long way to go for me 🙂
how the hell flipping something twice does'nt get back to the first key ???
why is it B->G->Eb ?? and not B->G->B ??? could this be more cryptic and confusing ?
lol. Sorry. If you flip it twice from the same rotation yes, you’ll get what you started with, but there’s a mix of flips and rotations:
B major flipped to B Phrygian, which relates to G major.
After a rotation to G major, it then flips to G Phrygian, which relates to Eb major.
After a rotation to Eb major, it then flips to Eb Phrygian which relates (enharmonically) to B.
if im playing in E minor can I flip the G Ionian to Phrygian or should i just flip the E minor to Mixolydian? Does it matter which modes u flip?
These particular examples are the G Ionian to G Phrygian method (Gmaj/Emin to Ebmajor/Cmin), but that doesn’t mean you can’t experiment or look for opportunities to try the Emin to Emix flip (or other modes to flip)
"On the whole..."
going to grab my telecaster, brb
Livin thing by ELO - C Am Ab Fm
In Giant Steps, why does B flip into G?? I thought major triads flip into minor ones, i thought B flips into E minor
The inverted intervals of B major get you a B Phrygian (3rd mode of G major). E minor is just the relative minor of G, so you’re also correct, we’re just “flipping” differently.
Thank you for the response, this is making much more sense to me now, I sat down at the piano and watched this playing along with the tunes and I understand what you mean. This is a great idea by the way. Also great song choices.@@nohjoh08
Can I pay for lessons?
So it's like the sharp 5 of the tonic chord? Or am I thinking of that backwards?
Also, sounds like movements a band like Phish would do. Very cool man.
Sensei gonna get famous ❤🎉
You do end up with chords built from the major scale on the flat 6. That's not the whole deal though. Its not straight transposition.
Reflect the intervals down.
C two tones up to E, then a tone and a half up to G gives us a C major triad.
C DOWN two tones to Ab then two more to F gives an F minor triad.
For D minor, D is a tone above C, so we start a tone below on Bb. Then a minor third down G, and anothe major third down to Eb. D minor triad flips to Eb major triad.
I thought mixolydian flipped to phrygian, aeolian to ionian, dorian to lydian , locrian no opposite. At least that's how it worked out when I tried it.
What you described is natural harmony
Lyd/dor
Ion/aeol
Mix/phry
Negative harmony with axis on the interval aka mirror harmony. the intervals are the same in both directions.
Lyd/loc
Ion/phry
Mix/aeol
Dor/dor
If you use the axis between the root and 5th on the circle of 5ths the negative pairs are:
Lyd/phry
Ion/aeol
Mix/dor
Loc pairs with loc next key over.
There is also an any axis or movable axis negative harmony theory where you can move the axis anywhere between the intervals or on the intervals to harmonize with all 12 keys.
Personally, I just use the first 3 as natural harmony, mirror harmony and negative harmony.
@@Chris-w4j cool, thank you for breaking that down!!
@@TravisTheTreeGuy it can all be really confusing.
@@Chris-w4j What's the logic behind natural harmony?
@@sixmillionaccountssilenced6721 you know, major and minor is ionian and aeolian. One harmonizes with the other or vice versa.
The other major scale modes have a natural harmony also.