If you are that interested in Indian military history ( particularly the one post Independence ) , Just look at the case of FV433 Abbot bought by Indian army & how they stripped the Abbot of it's most important user friendly components just so that they could buy it cheap . The article is there in Tanks Encyclopedia
They used to be hyper-socialist when this was made, so it was manufactured by state-run factories with a monopoly that primarily functioned as a Jobs Program for the poor, lax committee made "quality" standards and no private enterprises in the game to compete against and a captive buyer/market.
The Indian 1A1 FN's are not uncommon here in Canada. When I bought mine it cost a whopping $125 from International Firearms out of Montreal, and came complete with authentic Indian sand and dirt.
If memory serves they were only for available for about 6 months before the government banned their sale (though people who'd already bought one were allowed to keep them).
Australia (Lithgow) LA1 also not metric. Different thread pattern on screws which is not really "tooling up" for an FN, just grab a few drills and taps from local hardware store (when tools were high grade steel and not "that stuff") and for who knows why, the flash hider, and otherwise almost identical to the British L1A1 version of FAL (upper receiver lightening).
Man, thanks for presenting another battle rifle from my country. Yes, Indian Armed Forces still carry this old timer and it still kicks. You made my day Ian, thanks a lot.
India has not just seen wars in 1962, 65, 71 and 99 but ongoing counter insurgency and Maoist operations. Even police and CAPF forces use the SLR rifle.
The thing about mixing a metric pattern with an inch-pattern makes me think of the usual joke we have in Europe about the British finally deciding to put an end on their driving on the wrong side of the road: week 1 we’ll have lorries and busses driving on the right side instead of the left; and week 2 we’ll have all the other vehicles join in the move.
The British drive on the right side of the road, ie the left. The Europeans, on the other hand, drive on the wrong side of the road, ie the right side. Perhaps one day, those poor Europeans (and Americans) will learn to drive on the right side of the road, ie the left.
🇬🇧 Wrong side of the road eh?! If you visit the UK or Ireland feel invited to drive on whichever side you please ... That's the quickest way to find out which side is the Right one. 🤨
Me and other "Heeresbergführer" of the Gebirgsjäger had the Opportunity to train with some Indian Mountain Troops forever ago, great Soldiers in the Mountains, surprised us and i don't mean that in an insulting Way. And yeah hope Ian gets his Hands on more Indian Firearms! Prost & Cheers from the Snow-Covered Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
Our mountain troops are made up of Gorkhas as well as people from the Himalayan belt from Ladakh to North East who grow up in the mountains, tough as nails.
The quality of the personnel in the Indian army is very good. There’s a lot of people in India relative to the size of the army and the army is a pretty good career path relative to the other opportunities in India, so the military entrance exams are super competitive and the Indian military can afford to pick out the best applicants and it really shows.
Ah yes this thing. We see this, the IOF's version of the Browning Hi Power and the Insas being used by police a lot. Also recently some private companies have started making their versions of the TT33 And M1911 pistols for the civilian market. One of them is a pretty interesting concept - a 1911 chambered in 7.62 tokarev. Please look into it if you get the opportunity
The interesting thing is that I had always assumed that the pointless 8mm maximum caliber was for both rifles and pistols, but now every Indian civilian gun company seems to have a 1911 in .45 ACP, but still only rifles in .30-06 and .315 (8x50R Mannlicher). I was thinking that if there's any place outside the US that rifle cartridges like .350 Legend, .400 Legend, and .450 Bushmaster make sense, it's probably India: plenty of power for medium-to-big game, but less chance of accidentally hitting something you shouldn't half a mile away.
@@jic1India does have a caliber restriction law, but that restriction has nothing to do with bullet diameter. We simply can not have military/police service calibers. Eg - 9mm Luger, .38 smith and wesson (not .38 special) and .455 webley (even tho it is probably retired by now) are prohibited calibers. Meanwhile, everything else is legal for civvie ownership. Hence why the pvt companies coming out with .45 acp 1911s. Now as for rifles - rule is same. Service calibers not allowed However - Hunting is completely illegal here. So any rifle sold here is sold for 2 things - 1. Target sports. 2. Self defense. Now the 8mm steyr / .315 bore has been super popular here since ever. .30 06 is also kinda popular. Other calibers like .223, .308 or 6mm creedmor havent entered here yet The only rifle sports popular here are 10 mtr air rifle or 50 meter rimfire rifle. There is 300 mtr big bore but it aint popular here coz there arent many ranges you can go and practice this.
Here's hoping the quality of Indian made weapons goes up Privatization happened very late and Indian companies have very little experience There is one company, Syndicate Innovation / keihberg, who introduced a compact 1911, built using imported components, and proof tested using fiocchi +p+ ammo. No surprises here that this example is super high quality. Maybe this could be done in more areas, until the companies gain enough experience and equipment to make kick ass weapons by themselves Also - .315 sucks. From what I have read, it makes a 6 inchy group at 200 yards. You could take it to like a center fire free rifle match, if such an event exists, but you'll get humiliated at the match - your score would likely be so low, you'll have to pay a fine (+taxes) to the rifle association who organized said .match
I wonder why India just didn't buy license to manufacture the FN FNCs as a replacement of the 1A1s instead of trying to developing something completely new which resulted in the unreliable INSAS rifles?
1 & 1A for sure ( ones with Orange Handguards ) Not the 1B , 1B1 & Excalibur ( one with Black polymer handguards & folding stocks ) Also 1C is the latest version that has the milled receiver instead of stamped sheet receiver
The first batch of INSAS that were tested had a very solid track record, the design itself has no problem. It's mainly issues like corruption and negligence during manufacture process that led to subpar quality control. Also there were videos of indian soldiers directly dumping cold waters into the rifle in order to quickly cool them after training...and one video of them steaming it for whatever reason. Needless to say a combination of bad manufacture and maintance practice made it bad.
Also Indian OFB did copy the AK ( search for Ghatak & Trichy assault rifle ) , but it is too late move ( should have done in the 60s or 70s itself , heck even in the 80s ) ?
Probably the same reason that they didn't license the FALs: FN required Ishapore to buy tooling from them, and they didn't want to. Also, never underestimate the lure of an 'indigenous' design, especially for a country that still hasn't been independent for all that long.
Bro I am Indian this probably the only the second Indian Firearm he has done after the India pattern Lee Enfield, please do more Indian guns Like the INSAS( I know it is bad) I am a big fan of you and have been following this channel for years. (edit) well they kind of made improvements on the INSAS design with INSAS 1B and the EXCALIBUR which are supposed to be better( well its the OFB saying that so you cannot trust them). Indian small arms procurement in general is very confusing on a lot of levels , even the Indian Army for many years were not sure which firearms system or cartridge to standardize on, after the INSAS , sometimes they are buying Sig 716is , sometimes they are buying Romanian Pm90s , some units in the Indian Army still use the Vz-58. Some people argue that the INSAS uses 5.56 cartridge which lacks stopping power, the same people later come out and say that the Israeli Tavor and the M4 are excellent firearms( logic has left the chat). In Indian defence procurement there is a very big import lobby which basically opposes against procurement of any indigenously made firearms especially small arms. The only promising small arm that is being inducted for Rank and File soldiers is the Ak-203 , the Sig 716is that they adopted and bought earlier , they found out pretty quick that it dose not work very well with Indian 7.62 NATO cartridge as it is loaded hotter, hence there were cracks developing in the receiver. This pretty much sums up Indian small arms procurement and development in the last 10 years.
It was a bit large and heavy for the average Indian soldier.. saying that, they managed to use bren guns.. so perhaps it was really an individual thing...
The problem arise not with performance but with the change in the type of warfare Indian army faced . They went from a Conventional style fighting doctrine of the 50s-60s-70s to facing a more Asymetrix , unhinged & unpredictable warfare against proxies , terrorists , separatists & even special forces who were armed with fully automatic / select fire intermediate cartridges ( AK-47 / type-56 in particular ) & were heavily located in either cities or thick jungles . The 1A1 SLR proved too much of an overkill with heavy recoil & bulky stature ( large barrel & non folding buttstock ) while the STENs & Sterlings 9 X 19 mm proved inadequate against the AK-47s & M-16s used by Enemies , both in Range & penetration + devastation effect
Everyone called it an Fn back then! Or SLR! The SADF had a full auto version, the R1! A nice capable rifle! Also was obtainable in a folding stock an a shortened barrel! Which was for their paratroopers/parras/parabats/ bat's, which was used by many units! It wasn't to uncontrollable in full auto! As long as your a competent squeezer 😂 an not a spray n prey type🤙
nostalgia, i got a chance to shoot it during my National Cadet Corps(NCC) days, NCC is the couterpart for your American High School/university ROTC programme. Fun Fact : Indian hosted Armalite company people durong the late 50s and early 60s-to evaluate AR-15. The Indian ARmy infantry board rejected it due to the fact that the rifle was not compatiable with their ceremonial rifle drill ! it took nearly 4 decades to finally adpot a 5.56mm rifle
@ it is said, the most difficult part in the army is change. Col Chauhan, a retired Indian Army said combat was never the main focus in developing an indegenuous rifle. The Aussies, Kiwis and the Brits just change their drill when adopting a bullpup rifle, we Indians still rely on the old drill
Sir this is the exact same requirement that's put forward for the new in trials Ugram rifle, and i quote 'The handguard should conform to the existing drill standards.' I myself nearly flipped out after reading that. Like, during combat is the soldier gonna give a crap about drill standards? This is the same thing that along with other factors, ruined INSAS.
@ and also 5.56mm was very new to a 3rd world country like India back in the day. Also it was during the Cold War, the Defence Minister Menon was a very anti-US
I am from India. Getting a gun license is extremely difficult here. I am fortunate enough to get license and was able to buy an RFI Pistol named Ashani. What we often observe is that many of Indian guns lack in metallurgy. Sadly there is no way to confirm if its a thing with civilian firearms only or same for military products too. RFI also makes a .30-06 rifle which is a copy of Sauer 202, I own this too but have shot just a few rounds from it. In India a single round of .3006 costs anywhere from 250 to 600 rupees, and right now 1 dollar is approx 87 rupees, to keep things in perspective. Indian gun laws have made it difficult for law abiding citizens to defend themselves but have normalised illegal firearms across the country. We have to deposit our firearms during elections, imagine that. Maybe you can highlight the importance of protecting 2A in USA by showing state of Indian civil defence and how draconian anti gun laws can get.
Why is India so against arms from other nations being sold to civilians? I can understand their desire to keep the numbers of gun licenses low, but once one attains a license it would seem logical that they should be allowed to buy based on quality. Is it still a class-system where people under the ruling class are required to only buy from Indian conglomerates?
@@workingguy-OU812 its nothing like that, its simply a political thing. Most politician dont want armed citizens, especially in a country like India where politicians keep a lot of people around them for protection and showing their power.
It's a shitty situation. At this point, I almost believe that being a gun enthusiast and being born in India, is like some sort of punishment for misdeeds in past life. Still, it ain't a hopeless picture either - despite having the shittiest gun laws possible, shooting sports is becoming increasingly popular here, both for air gun and firearm category. Ain't got IPSC or IDPA here but we have ISSF / NRAI events. Guess we'll just take that.
@@workingguy-OU812 depends . because people here misuse things more than they put on for intended use . also it's a taboo from the past to not give weapons to civilians . That is changing slowly in J&K , Himachal , Punjab & Manipur tho
@@workingguy-OU812thats the result of british raj, it was a way to curb rebellion and then our bureaucrats continued it with limited licence issuals only
If it uses the same system as the L1A1 for use with winter gloves on, after removing the trigger guard section the actual trigger guard folds down and is inserted into that hollow section in the pistol grip and the plate screwed back into position.
HolySHit , how did you get that most of us Indians cant own a firearm , it is a good suprise to see ForgottenWeapons do a detailed video on these Please do more Indian Firearms
Here from India. I was hoping you get your hands on an INSAS 5.56 some day, Ian; but I guess this will do for now! PS: If you're really interested in making a video on the INSAS, I'd try to help deal with the bureaucracy.
Insas was a good gun, problem was ofb which fucked up manufacturing and army which demanded a gun with some stupid features but later blamed the same@@jalpat2272
@@jalpat2272 man where do I start. Bureaucracy, rushed development, hasty adoption, lack of funding, inexperienced designers, and subsequent abandonment of the program are some reasons. The DRDO severely lacks funding and getting designs approved even for prototyping takes years ( as someone who has contacts with designers in the organization, they also don't like to talk about INSAS program.) Hope it explains the utter nightmare that was insas.
@ i mean insas inside mechanism is similar to Kalashnikov more than FAL, which is long stroke gas piston with rotating bolt design that have proven to be very reliable in extreme weather condition, but i keep hearing it has issue in cold weather.
The almost post-apocalyptic level of finish on this rifle strangely calls to me. I'd love to find other rifles with this type of look (but better parts, hopefully.) Probably why I love rat rods.
Somewhere on UA-cam is a video of an Indian policeman doing a basic field strip of his Indian FN/SLR BLINDFOLDED. By God or your favourite deity, that man was super fast and accurate, which showed the amount of practice that he had put into his performance. I must confess that if I was to compete with talent yet humble man, I would have the performance speed of Slowpoke Rodriguez against Speedy Gonzalez. Well, in my defence, it is years since I last handled an Australian Army L1A1 SLR, and while I think that the drills are still buried in my brain, they would be very rusty. They would emerge fairly quickly once I placed my hands on an SLR again. I actually find it quite amazing just how well certain aspects of my training are still accessible after some 37 years since I first learned them. Mark from Melbourne Australia
This is what the guards carry at the national war memorial in India. I have a picture of one of them looking at me like he was going to come kick my butt. I apologize to anyone from India that I cannot remember the proper name of the memorial. My memory isn’t as good as it was.
In the early 90's, I was a gunsmith at Century International Arms (CIA LOL) when they were headquartered in Montreal. We had hundreds of these Ishpahore FALs which were brought in for the American market. However, the Clinton assault weapon ban was in effect at that time, so we could not simply ship complete rifles across the border. What we had to do was completely disassemble the rifles, which included removing the barrel assembly from the receiver. (Even though we had a proper barrel removal press, these barrels were extremely difficult to remove without damaging either the barrel or the receiver, We used to joke about the "bloody big Indian" who screwed the damn thing in during manufacture.) The collected parts, minus the upper receiver, would then be shipped to Century in Albany NY as a "kit" where it would be married up with a U.S. manufactured receiver thereby avoiding the ban on non-US made "assault rifles." I was intimately familiar with the Canadian C1A1 due to having carried one for eight years in The Royal Canadian Regiment and so was able to note the differences in manufacturing quality, The Ishpahores were what can be best described as "rough". Machine marks all over the place, painted rather than parkerized, sloppy tolerances, dings and dents due to softer steel usage. I can only surmise that after the "kit" was attached to a US-made receiver, that the rifle was now in better shape than it was when it first rolled off the assembly line.
2:10 Fun fact, the PM had no idea about this, so when FN was pissed and the PM heard about it, they basically worked out a deal where India bought some weapons from FN and they agreed to let it go.
Indian ammunition was supplied to the British Army in the early 1980's as part of payment for some planes. It was absolute shite, totally unreliable couldn't hit a triple man target at 100 metres and I had nightmares about the barrel getting blocked. Their QC on filling with propellant was obviously not real.
1980s? Would you kindly provide me some source to this? 1980s means it might be around the time of Falkland war. But, why would the British army need ammo all the way from India when they they have proper facilities in UK itself? I have lot questions
As an Indian, I suggest if you want to take a look at insas then try to acquire it from the countries insas was exported to as it is the only way to get a hold of the weapon because now those countries has either ditched or replaced the weapon way early due to its shortcomings. I have held the gun in several army fairs and by my experience i can tell it's combination of ak internals, with hk g3 charging handle, fal like upper with side mounting rails like in ak systems for optic and heavy as fal and g3 like translucent magazines.
I once had the honor and privellige to hold and field strip a Indian SLR, but it was one of the first guns bought from the British. The designation 7.62mm L1A1 was was written on it along with the year 1959. For the record Indian produced SLR has Ishapore 1A1 written on it and the year starts from 1962-63 for first trials and 1964 for serial production.
We never seem to have made or fielded winter trigger extensions....ordnance armourer manuals make no mention of them either. As far as instruction goes, the front strap on the grip is unscrewed, the trigger guard folded and stowed into the grip and the whole thing screwed back on, leaving the bare trigger to be operated by a golved hand.
There were some 'wooden furniture' SLRs in our unit armoury and everybody wanted to get their hands on them. Not so much because they were any better than the fibreglass furniture ones, but because they looked so damn cool (or 'Ally' as we would say).
Ian, it was quite a pleasant surprise to observe an Indian firearm today. I can suggest that you contact Indian manufacturers/OFBs for a visit. That would be a great way to introduce Indian manufacturers to the US market.
1C was the fully automatic version, it looks different from the 1A with shortend handguard. Somewhere I read that it was done so that these can be used from the firing ports on the BMP.
I have heard you mention the term 'Technical Package' before now and it has gotten me intrigued. What exactly IS a Technical Package? Obviously it has something to do with the manufacturing of the gun but what does this entail? Is it just the Technical Drawings together with a list of the tolerances for the parts and the materials used or is there more involved? As someone who is not a Firearms expert or even shoots guns but who has a layman's interest I am interested by terms you use like Technical Package.
Having just started working in the industrial/manufacturing sector, I think you can assume it contains a lot of specifications about parts, their drawings, the details of the materials used for their manufacturing as well... Everything that you need to know about the gun and its "ecosystem" basically
Another fun fact is that the Indian SLR is now in the service of the Indian State Police forces and also as a DP only rifle in the NCC, the youth wing of the Indian Defence forces.
Is it my imagination or is the machining on the receiver really rough? Looks like file marks. Reminds me of certain Soviet and Chinese made model airplane engines.
What sort of metal finish does this 1A1 have? It almost reminds me of the black-lacquer paint finish that the early-pattern MAS-36 and MAS-49 rifles had.
Century arms imported hybrid L1A1s and where a pain on the but to fix and make working. Traded that in and replaced it with a imbel reciver with Israel furniture.
(Not) Fun fact the term Dum Dum to describe an expanding/hollow point round was from the British India town of Dumdum where a British Army Officer designed a round to inflict greater impact damage. These were eventually banned in warfare only when Europeans realised a European War was unavoidable and they couldn't use these brutal rounds against each other.
Hi Ian. The first thing I noticed was the surface treatment of the rifle - pretty rudimentary in my opinion. You didn't mention anything about it. Having used a similar (FN M1) rifle in the SA Navy, this surface finish really caught my attention (in a bad way)
Speaking of Indian firearms....Can you do a video on the INSAS? That would be one I'd love to get ahold of if they ever bring in parts kits when they retire them from service.
well I mean the other channel’s conclusion was that the type 56 AK was a large reason why china won the conflict, but the CCP decided to mythologize the SKS instead, because the myth fit their doctrine better (add their doctrine fit their industrial capacity better). so there’s no real clash in analysis. the type 56 (and even the SKS) still provided china with superior volume of fire
Ian the problem with Insas are not due to the design or anything but the stupid GSQR laid by armed forces and then the shitty manufacturing by the govt owned companies which had no accountability Private players couldnt make guna etc so they had no competition & their jobs were secured so they acted like its not their problem. To add the criticism of insas mostly comes from 1 and 1a but the 1b1 & 1c versions were practically flawless ( the ergonomic design wasnt best but it also was what armed forces asked) A lot has been said about insas but tbh its a very accurate and good gun but yeah the issues are openly talked of while not discussing how OFB fked them up
It’s got that “last ditch rifle” level of machining.
My thoughts exactly. It looks like a 1941 Izzy M91/30.
If you are that interested in Indian military history ( particularly the one post Independence ) , Just look at the case of FV433 Abbot bought by Indian army & how they stripped the Abbot of it's most important user friendly components just so that they could buy it cheap . The article is there in Tanks Encyclopedia
They used to be hyper-socialist when this was made, so it was manufactured by state-run factories with a monopoly that primarily functioned as a Jobs Program for the poor, lax committee made "quality" standards and no private enterprises in the game to compete against and a captive buyer/market.
Also that was the 50s & 60s & the time when India still hasn't gotten rid of old economic practices & was borderline socialist ( & heck poor as well )
@@ThunderingTosspot doesn't matter what system they have back thenx it still sucks for them even in 2025
Whoever saved this firearm in this great condition, thank you for redeeming it.
The Indian 1A1 FN's are not uncommon here in Canada. When I bought mine it cost a whopping $125 from International Firearms out of Montreal, and came complete with authentic Indian sand and dirt.
Cana-India
If memory serves they were only for available for about 6 months before the government banned their sale (though people who'd already bought one were allowed to keep them).
_complete with authentic Indian sand and dirt_
Much like some of the Indian surplus ammunition then.
Australia (Lithgow) LA1 also not metric. Different thread pattern on screws which is not really "tooling up" for an FN, just grab a few drills and taps from local hardware store (when tools were high grade steel and not "that stuff") and for who knows why, the flash hider, and otherwise almost identical to the British L1A1 version of FAL (upper receiver lightening).
And Now The Canadian Government Confiscated it from You, Right???....
Man, thanks for presenting another battle rifle from my country. Yes, Indian Armed Forces still carry this old timer and it still kicks. You made my day Ian, thanks a lot.
Rarely have i seen such crude surfaces on a weapon that's not made during wartimes...
It was wartime, sorta ...
1965
And then 1971
India has not just seen wars in 1962, 65, 71 and 99 but ongoing counter insurgency and Maoist operations. Even police and CAPF forces use the SLR rifle.
The thing about mixing a metric pattern with an inch-pattern makes me think of the usual joke we have in Europe about the British finally deciding to put an end on their driving on the wrong side of the road: week 1 we’ll have lorries and busses driving on the right side instead of the left; and week 2 we’ll have all the other vehicles join in the move.
The British drive on the right side of the road, ie the left. The Europeans, on the other hand, drive on the wrong side of the road, ie the right side.
Perhaps one day, those poor Europeans (and Americans) will learn to drive on the right side of the road, ie the left.
🇬🇧 Wrong side of the road eh?!
If you visit the UK or Ireland feel invited to drive on whichever side you please ... That's the quickest way to find out which side is the Right one. 🤨
@causewaykayak - you forget Japan, in addition to having a rather weak sense of humour.
CORRECT. No sense of humour.
Japan is not part of either the UK or Ireland. (The very pleasant and useful Common Travel Area).
Given that the first ever traffic direction was on London Bridge…who is it who’s driving on the ‘wrong’ side? :)
Me and other "Heeresbergführer" of the Gebirgsjäger had the Opportunity to train with some Indian Mountain Troops forever ago, great Soldiers in the Mountains, surprised us and i don't mean that in an insulting Way.
And yeah hope Ian gets his Hands on more Indian Firearms!
Prost & Cheers from the Snow-Covered Berchtesgaden in the Bavarian Alps
Our mountain troops are made up of Gorkhas as well as people from the Himalayan belt from Ladakh to North East who grow up in the mountains, tough as nails.
The quality of the personnel in the Indian army is very good. There’s a lot of people in India relative to the size of the army and the army is a pretty good career path relative to the other opportunities in India, so the military entrance exams are super competitive and the Indian military can afford to pick out the best applicants and it really shows.
@@Archer89201 not just Gurkhas but also the Kumoan, Mahar, Madras, Sikh, JAKLI, Dogra etc each infantry unit contributes to Corps and are trained HAWS
@@rajasekhe i mentioned the Himalayan belt that includes all the Kumaon , Garwhal and other mountain/hill people
Ah yes this thing. We see this, the IOF's version of the Browning Hi Power and the Insas being used by police a lot.
Also recently some private companies have started making their versions of the TT33 And M1911 pistols for the civilian market.
One of them is a pretty interesting concept - a 1911 chambered in 7.62 tokarev. Please look into it if you get the opportunity
The interesting thing is that I had always assumed that the pointless 8mm maximum caliber was for both rifles and pistols, but now every Indian civilian gun company seems to have a 1911 in .45 ACP, but still only rifles in .30-06 and .315 (8x50R Mannlicher). I was thinking that if there's any place outside the US that rifle cartridges like .350 Legend, .400 Legend, and .450 Bushmaster make sense, it's probably India: plenty of power for medium-to-big game, but less chance of accidentally hitting something you shouldn't half a mile away.
@@jic1India does have a caliber restriction law, but that restriction has nothing to do with bullet diameter. We simply can not have military/police service calibers.
Eg - 9mm Luger, .38 smith and wesson (not .38 special) and .455 webley (even tho it is probably retired by now) are prohibited calibers. Meanwhile, everything else is legal for civvie ownership. Hence why the pvt companies coming out with .45 acp 1911s.
Now as for rifles - rule is same. Service calibers not allowed
However - Hunting is completely illegal here. So any rifle sold here is sold for 2 things - 1. Target sports. 2. Self defense.
Now the 8mm steyr / .315 bore has been super popular here since ever. .30 06 is also kinda popular. Other calibers like .223, .308 or 6mm creedmor havent entered here yet
The only rifle sports popular here are 10 mtr air rifle or 50 meter rimfire rifle. There is 300 mtr big bore but it aint popular here coz there arent many ranges you can go and practice this.
I remember when a ton of Indian Hi-Powers got imported into the US. A little rough and basic, but seemed to work just fine.
Here's hoping the quality of Indian made weapons goes up
Privatization happened very late and Indian companies have very little experience
There is one company, Syndicate Innovation / keihberg, who introduced a compact 1911, built using imported components, and proof tested using fiocchi +p+ ammo.
No surprises here that this example is super high quality. Maybe this could be done in more areas, until the companies gain enough experience and equipment to make kick ass weapons by themselves
Also - .315 sucks. From what I have read, it makes a 6 inchy group at 200 yards. You could take it to like a center fire free rifle match, if such an event exists, but you'll get humiliated at the match - your score would likely be so low, you'll have to pay a fine (+taxes) to the rifle association who organized said .match
It looks like it was made using hand files and angle grinders... I'm honestly impressed.
I wonder why India just didn't buy license to manufacture the FN FNCs as a replacement of the 1A1s instead of trying to developing something completely new which resulted in the unreliable INSAS rifles?
1 & 1A for sure ( ones with Orange Handguards )
Not the 1B , 1B1 & Excalibur ( one with Black polymer handguards & folding stocks )
Also 1C is the latest version that has the milled receiver instead of stamped sheet receiver
The first batch of INSAS that were tested had a very solid track record, the design itself has no problem. It's mainly issues like corruption and negligence during manufacture process that led to subpar quality control. Also there were videos of indian soldiers directly dumping cold waters into the rifle in order to quickly cool them after training...and one video of them steaming it for whatever reason. Needless to say a combination of bad manufacture and maintance practice made it bad.
Also Indian OFB did copy the AK ( search for Ghatak & Trichy assault rifle ) , but it is too late move ( should have done in the 60s or 70s itself , heck even in the 80s ) ?
What too much curry does to a mfer
Probably the same reason that they didn't license the FALs: FN required Ishapore to buy tooling from them, and they didn't want to. Also, never underestimate the lure of an 'indigenous' design, especially for a country that still hasn't been independent for all that long.
I'll add my thanks to S & B, and all the manufacturers that open their Reference Collections for Ian and crew to review.
The Infamous Indian Model 7-11 Rifle!.... Ahh Hahaha!....
Bro I am Indian this probably the only the second Indian Firearm he has done after the India pattern Lee Enfield, please do more Indian guns Like the INSAS( I know it is bad) I am a big fan of you and have been following this channel for years.
(edit) well they kind of made improvements on the INSAS design with INSAS 1B and the EXCALIBUR which are supposed to be better( well its the OFB saying that so you cannot trust them). Indian small arms procurement in general is very confusing on a lot of levels , even the Indian Army for many years were not sure which firearms system or cartridge to standardize on, after the INSAS , sometimes they are buying Sig 716is , sometimes they are buying Romanian Pm90s , some units in the Indian Army still use the Vz-58. Some people argue that the INSAS uses 5.56 cartridge which lacks stopping power, the same people later come out and say that the Israeli Tavor and the M4 are excellent firearms( logic has left the chat). In Indian defence procurement there is a very big import lobby which basically opposes against procurement of any indigenously made firearms especially small arms. The only promising small arm that is being inducted for Rank and File soldiers is the Ak-203 , the Sig 716is that they adopted and bought earlier , they found out pretty quick that it dose not work very well with Indian 7.62 NATO cartridge as it is loaded hotter, hence there were cracks developing in the receiver. This pretty much sums up Indian small arms procurement and development in the last 10 years.
I would love to cover the INSAS, but I have not yet found one to film.
@@ForgottenWeapons Insas is not exported to United States. It is being exported to Nepal and Bhutan
The best bet you have for that is getting in touch with someone in the MoD or Home Ministry, RFI or private companies like SSS Defence
He did another one . some maharaja gun or something like that .
@@ForgottenWeapons As an Indian, please save us the embarrassment and don't make a video about the INSAS.
It was a bit large and heavy for the average Indian soldier.. saying that, they managed to use bren guns.. so perhaps it was really an individual thing...
The problem arise not with performance but with the change in the type of warfare Indian army faced .
They went from a Conventional style fighting doctrine of the 50s-60s-70s to facing a more Asymetrix , unhinged & unpredictable warfare against proxies , terrorists , separatists & even special forces who were armed with fully automatic / select fire intermediate cartridges ( AK-47 / type-56 in particular ) & were heavily located in either cities or thick jungles . The 1A1 SLR proved too much of an overkill with heavy recoil & bulky stature ( large barrel & non folding buttstock ) while the STENs & Sterlings 9 X 19 mm proved inadequate against the AK-47s & M-16s used by Enemies , both in Range & penetration + devastation effect
In India.. it's common name was SLR..(Self loading Rifle)
Which is actually British, btw.. they coined the term 😅
Frankly, I love the fact that it's got a bunch of machining marks left on it - doesn't have to be pretty if it *works*
Who needs light support weapons when you have tech support weapons…
On rare occasions we have Ishipore FAL's(FN's to us)popping up in South Africa. Cheers.
Everyone called it an Fn back then! Or SLR!
The SADF had a full auto version, the R1!
A nice capable rifle! Also was obtainable in a folding stock an a shortened barrel! Which was for their paratroopers/parras/parabats/ bat's, which was used by many units! It wasn't to uncontrollable in full auto! As long as your a competent squeezer 😂 an not a spray n prey type🤙
@@Art-c4t Yup ,i have one as we speak. Certainly my favourite in my safe but then i may be biased, Ha.
@@edwardhawkey5714 which one they're all nice rifles! Still relevant today! Very capable!
@@edwardhawkey5714 Do some vids on it! It's easily done on a phone!👌👍🤙
@@Art-c4t I have a Sanitised R1 full length that came back into SA, in full original Rhodesian Camo.
nostalgia, i got a chance to shoot it during my National Cadet Corps(NCC) days, NCC is the couterpart for your American High School/university ROTC programme.
Fun Fact : Indian hosted Armalite company people durong the late 50s and early 60s-to evaluate AR-15. The Indian ARmy infantry board rejected it due to the fact that the rifle was not compatiable with their ceremonial rifle drill ! it took nearly 4 decades to finally adpot a 5.56mm rifle
Old school military habits die hard.
@ it is said, the most difficult part in the army is change. Col Chauhan, a retired Indian Army said combat was never the main focus in developing an indegenuous rifle. The Aussies, Kiwis and the Brits just change their drill when adopting a bullpup rifle, we Indians still rely on the old drill
Sir this is the exact same requirement that's put forward for the new in trials Ugram rifle, and i quote 'The handguard should conform to the existing drill standards.' I myself nearly flipped out after reading that. Like, during combat is the soldier gonna give a crap about drill standards? This is the same thing that along with other factors, ruined INSAS.
@ and also 5.56mm was very new to a 3rd world country like India back in the day. Also it was during the Cold War, the Defence Minister Menon was a very anti-US
@ like i said ergonomics and combat was never the main focus
DO NOT REDEEM
“HEEEALLLOOOOL?!” -Steve during phone call with Kitboga 😂
That blocky pistol grip though 😬
Run it through a belt sander, guys 🤷🏻♂️
Perhaps they thought the Belgians wouldn't recognize it!
The FAL if you redeemed:
the FAL if you brakes the cycle of rebirth
its lubed with poo
Except for payment.
I am from India. Getting a gun license is extremely difficult here. I am fortunate enough to get license and was able to buy an RFI Pistol named Ashani. What we often observe is that many of Indian guns lack in metallurgy. Sadly there is no way to confirm if its a thing with civilian firearms only or same for military products too. RFI also makes a .30-06 rifle which is a copy of Sauer 202, I own this too but have shot just a few rounds from it. In India a single round of .3006 costs anywhere from 250 to 600 rupees, and right now 1 dollar is approx 87 rupees, to keep things in perspective. Indian gun laws have made it difficult for law abiding citizens to defend themselves but have normalised illegal firearms across the country. We have to deposit our firearms during elections, imagine that. Maybe you can highlight the importance of protecting 2A in USA by showing state of Indian civil defence and how draconian anti gun laws can get.
Why is India so against arms from other nations being sold to civilians? I can understand their desire to keep the numbers of gun licenses low, but once one attains a license it would seem logical that they should be allowed to buy based on quality. Is it still a class-system where people under the ruling class are required to only buy from Indian conglomerates?
@@workingguy-OU812 its nothing like that, its simply a political thing. Most politician dont want armed citizens, especially in a country like India where politicians keep a lot of people around them for protection and showing their power.
It's a shitty situation. At this point, I almost believe that being a gun enthusiast and being born in India, is like some sort of punishment for misdeeds in past life.
Still, it ain't a hopeless picture either - despite having the shittiest gun laws possible, shooting sports is becoming increasingly popular here, both for air gun and firearm category. Ain't got IPSC or IDPA here but we have ISSF / NRAI events. Guess we'll just take that.
@@workingguy-OU812 depends . because people here misuse things more than they put on for intended use . also it's a taboo from the past to not give weapons to civilians . That is changing slowly in J&K , Himachal , Punjab & Manipur tho
@@workingguy-OU812thats the result of british raj, it was a way to curb rebellion and then our bureaucrats continued it with limited licence issuals only
Loved my L1A1 SLR Aussie when in service
If it uses the same system as the L1A1 for use with winter gloves on, after removing the trigger guard section the actual trigger guard folds down and is inserted into that hollow section in the pistol grip and the plate screwed back into position.
Good morning sirs
*saar
This is the best content I've seen on this topic!
HolySHit , how did you get that
most of us Indians cant own a firearm , it is a good suprise to see ForgottenWeapons do a detailed video on these
Please do more Indian Firearms
Indian rear sights have a push button to release the slider for changing range whereas the British ones only have a spring detent
NATO designation: Curry Cannon
Here from India. I was hoping you get your hands on an INSAS 5.56 some day, Ian; but I guess this will do for now!
PS: If you're really interested in making a video on the INSAS, I'd try to help deal with the bureaucracy.
Lil question about insas, how did (no offence) you guys made unreliable kalashnikov style action ?
@jalpat2272 I would have attempted an answer if I was in any way involved with its design.
Insas was a good gun, problem was ofb which fucked up manufacturing and army which demanded a gun with some stupid features but later blamed the same@@jalpat2272
@@jalpat2272 man where do I start.
Bureaucracy, rushed development, hasty adoption, lack of funding, inexperienced designers, and subsequent abandonment of the program are some reasons.
The DRDO severely lacks funding and getting designs approved even for prototyping takes years ( as someone who has contacts with designers in the organization, they also don't like to talk about INSAS program.) Hope it explains the utter nightmare that was insas.
@ i mean insas inside mechanism is similar to Kalashnikov more than FAL, which is long stroke gas piston with rotating bolt design that have proven to be very reliable in extreme weather condition, but i keep hearing it has issue in cold weather.
100% designated as google gift card redeemable saar
i wouldnt touch that one if i were you ian...
That's not cosmoline that's poo...
The almost post-apocalyptic level of finish on this rifle strangely calls to me. I'd love to find other rifles with this type of look (but better parts, hopefully.) Probably why I love rat rods.
I have one. It’s an interesting rifle and a nice little detour in the Fal story. It shoots nice
Somewhere on UA-cam is a video of an Indian policeman doing a basic field strip of his Indian FN/SLR
BLINDFOLDED.
By God or your favourite deity, that man was super fast and accurate, which showed the amount of practice that he had put into his performance.
I must confess that if I was to compete with talent yet humble man, I would have the performance speed of Slowpoke Rodriguez against Speedy Gonzalez. Well, in my defence, it is years since I last handled an Australian Army L1A1 SLR, and while I think that the drills are still buried in my brain, they would be very rusty. They would emerge fairly quickly once I placed my hands on an SLR again.
I actually find it quite amazing just how well certain aspects of my training are still accessible after some 37 years since I first learned them.
Mark from Melbourne Australia
This is what the
guards carry at the national war memorial in India. I have a picture of one of them looking at me like he was going to come kick my butt. I apologize to anyone from India that I cannot remember the proper name of
the memorial. My
memory isn’t as
good as it was.
As a longtime Indian viewer, I love this video, keep it up Ian if you do make videos on this
Ian has done so many videos and covered so many firearms that he keeps having to go more and more obscure and I love it 😂
The wood is gorgeous
The machining is atrocious.
Beautiful patina
If they built their FALs anything like their Lee Enfields... i'll stick to my Imbel FAL
I've been fixating on these for a while now! I'd love to see you get your hands on a 1C
Ian : "I would love to get my hands on one." Me: Cool content from India!
In the early 90's, I was a gunsmith at Century International Arms (CIA LOL) when they were headquartered in Montreal. We had hundreds of these Ishpahore FALs which were brought in for the American market. However, the Clinton assault weapon ban was in effect at that time, so we could not simply ship complete rifles across the border. What we had to do was completely disassemble the rifles, which included removing the barrel assembly from the receiver. (Even though we had a proper barrel removal press, these barrels were extremely difficult to remove without damaging either the barrel or the receiver, We used to joke about the "bloody big Indian" who screwed the damn thing in during manufacture.) The collected parts, minus the upper receiver, would then be shipped to Century in Albany NY as a "kit" where it would be married up with a U.S. manufactured receiver thereby avoiding the ban on non-US made "assault rifles." I was intimately familiar with the Canadian C1A1 due to having carried one for eight years in The Royal Canadian Regiment and so was able to note the differences in manufacturing quality, The Ishpahores were what can be best described as "rough". Machine marks all over the place, painted rather than parkerized, sloppy tolerances, dings and dents due to softer steel usage. I can only surmise that after the "kit" was attached to a US-made receiver, that the rifle was now in better shape than it was when it first rolled off the assembly line.
2:10 Fun fact, the PM had no idea about this, so when FN was pissed and the PM heard about it, they basically worked out a deal where India bought some weapons from FN and they agreed to let it go.
no wonder modern Prime Minister bodyguard(SPGS) used mostly FN firearms, FN2000, FN Five Seven, FN SCAR, P90s etc
Well i was waiting for this episode for a long time when you shown other fn fal of other country well thanks Ian
Big fan from India.
Indian ammunition was supplied to the British Army in the early 1980's as part of payment for some planes. It was absolute shite, totally unreliable couldn't hit a triple man target at 100 metres and I had nightmares about the barrel getting blocked. Their QC on filling with propellant was obviously not real.
Looks like they sent expired ammo . You got scammed . Shouldn't have redeemed.
1980s? Would you kindly provide me some source to this? 1980s means it might be around the time of Falkland war. But, why would the British army need ammo all the way from India when they they have proper facilities in UK itself? I have lot questions
UK was downsizing
Cheaper to import
As an Indian, I suggest if you want to take a look at insas then try to acquire it from the countries insas was exported to as it is the only way to get a hold of the weapon because now those countries has either ditched or replaced the weapon way early due to its shortcomings. I have held the gun in several army fairs and by my experience i can tell it's combination of ak internals, with hk g3 charging handle, fal like upper with side mounting rails like in ak systems for optic and heavy as fal and g3 like translucent magazines.
I once had the honor and privellige to hold and field strip a Indian SLR, but it was one of the first guns bought from the British. The designation 7.62mm L1A1 was was written on it along with the year 1959. For the record Indian produced SLR has Ishapore 1A1 written on it and the year starts from 1962-63 for first trials and 1964 for serial production.
What coating of finished does it have? It looks awful
Does this rifle have an extended warranty?
I'll call you later about it! 😂
It can be purchased only with Wal-mart gift cards or I-Tune cards.
We never seem to have made or fielded winter trigger extensions....ordnance armourer manuals make no mention of them either.
As far as instruction goes, the front strap on the grip is unscrewed, the trigger guard folded and stowed into the grip and the whole thing screwed back on, leaving the bare trigger to be operated by a golved hand.
"Reference Library" yes! A great way to say "ridiculously huge collection" to my wife. "Oh honey this gun is for my Reference Library."
That's not a FAL - that's a FAIL
I owned one of these in the late 90s/early 2000. It was a good gun. One I wish I kept.
There were some 'wooden furniture' SLRs in our unit armoury and everybody wanted to get their hands on them. Not so much because they were any better than the fibreglass furniture ones, but because they looked so damn cool (or 'Ally' as we would say).
Each of your videos is a real find! Thank you for your quality content and interesting topics. I always look forward to the new episodes!🥊🧢🌷
Cue Indians defending the Insas even though the Indian army themselves decided to replace it with AK203's and SIG's.
Ian, it was quite a pleasant surprise to observe an Indian firearm today. I can suggest that you contact Indian manufacturers/OFBs for a visit. That would be a great way to introduce Indian manufacturers to the US market.
5:06 Seems like they also went with a Metric style post over the British front sight blade.
1C was the fully automatic version, it looks different from the 1A with shortend handguard. Somewhere I read that it was done so that these can be used from the firing ports on the BMP.
this is a great very interesting video and rifle my dear Mr. Ian. have a good one dear Mr. gj.
I have heard you mention the term 'Technical Package' before now and it has gotten me intrigued. What exactly IS a Technical Package? Obviously it has something to do with the manufacturing of the gun but what does this entail?
Is it just the Technical Drawings together with a list of the tolerances for the parts and the materials used or is there more involved?
As someone who is not a Firearms expert or even shoots guns but who has a layman's interest I am interested by terms you use like Technical Package.
Having just started working in the industrial/manufacturing sector, I think you can assume it contains a lot of specifications about parts, their drawings, the details of the materials used for their manufacturing as well... Everything that you need to know about the gun and its "ecosystem" basically
@@Adrian-qk2fn specifications of every part of the rifle in detailed blueprints and license
6:17 This is only a 2-position srlector: "Safe" and "Sorry"
Another fun fact is that the Indian SLR is now in the service of the Indian State Police forces and also as a DP only rifle in the NCC, the youth wing of the Indian Defence forces.
Is it my imagination or is the machining on the receiver really rough? Looks like file marks. Reminds me of certain Soviet and Chinese made model airplane engines.
H1B FAL
Hope one day Ian can cover a British army issue SLR, we've gotten so close with the trials FALs and the Aussie, Canadian and Indian versions.
When I visited India in 2019, a member of airport security was carring one.
Great video
Ian could you do the British L7 gpmg fn mag and could you do a British FAL to id like to see it
i can smell this fal
Must've been similar to 2 girls 1cup
Someone should sponsor an ishapore arsenal trip for Ian to show us the weird and wonderful small arms from india.
Please lord no.. it's an embarrassment itself.. I have been inside the factory.. trust me, brotha, it's not worth it.. and I live in Ishapore
What sort of metal finish does this 1A1 have? It almost reminds me of the black-lacquer paint finish that the early-pattern MAS-36 and MAS-49 rifles had.
Century arms imported hybrid L1A1s and where a pain on the but to fix and make working. Traded that in and replaced it with a imbel reciver with Israel furniture.
Very interesting !
Thank you !
Man that looks rough seems they did need FN machines
Dude that one Kitboga video set back India’s reputation 20 years😭
What is that?
I would like to see your take on INSAS. I'm currently in Munitions India Ltd. We have an INSAS in our Armoury but someone took away all the magazines.
Most likely the mags cracked
Its a flaw with transparent mags which somehow army demanded despite knowing the issues with it
I think you forget to show us disassembly of FAL 1A1
Can you imagine the smell ?
@ 😂🤭
FALjeet
Nice video.. please do a video on INSAS
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR DO NOT REDEEM THE FAL
(Not) Fun fact the term Dum Dum to describe an expanding/hollow point round was from the British India town of Dumdum where a British Army Officer designed a round to inflict greater impact damage. These were eventually banned in warfare only when Europeans realised a European War was unavoidable and they couldn't use these brutal rounds against each other.
"Is Indian FAL metric or inch?"
"Yes (and Indian)"
Can you do a video about the development of the FAN and how it specifically works?
Hi Ian. The first thing I noticed was the surface treatment of the rifle - pretty rudimentary in my opinion. You didn't mention anything about it. Having used a similar (FN M1) rifle in the SA Navy, this surface finish really caught my attention (in a bad way)
The butt plate looks the same as my No4 Lee Enfield.
Not the most polished level of production, but it seems quite sturdy & robust. The extended trigger guard is a pretty trick feature.
Great review . It would be Great if you could do more reviews of commonwealth / Dominion post world war two rifles - I am from New Zealand
Speaking of Indian firearms....Can you do a video on the INSAS? That would be one I'd love to get ahold of if they ever bring in parts kits when they retire them from service.
*Saaar i make FAL rifle saaar.*
The gun might be from RR, Its been embossed on the Flash hider (Rastria Rifles) an Army CT/CS Unit based out of J&K.
0:58 "Type 56: The Story of China's Army" would disagree with you (at least partially). The CCP was all in on the SKS.
well I mean the other channel’s conclusion was that the type 56 AK was a large reason why china won the conflict, but the CCP decided to mythologize the SKS instead, because the myth fit their doctrine better (add their doctrine fit their industrial capacity better). so there’s no real clash in analysis. the type 56 (and even the SKS) still provided china with superior volume of fire
Ian the problem with Insas are not due to the design or anything but the stupid GSQR laid by armed forces and then the shitty manufacturing by the govt owned companies which had no accountability
Private players couldnt make guna etc so they had no competition & their jobs were secured so they acted like its not their problem.
To add the criticism of insas mostly comes from 1 and 1a but the 1b1 & 1c versions were practically flawless ( the ergonomic design wasnt best but it also was what armed forces asked)
A lot has been said about insas but tbh its a very accurate and good gun but yeah the issues are openly talked of while not discussing how OFB fked them up
The finish on this rifle was achieved with a cheese grater.
At 1:17 you can see a SA around a broad arrow mark on the butt. What's that about? I think I've seen that mark on Enfield rifles that were not Indian.
Surface finish level India.