Thank you for taking the time to explain the differences between the 2 boilers. You helped me decide to go with the condensing boiler. I have an old 2 family Georgian, with a 150 year old chimney, servicing 2 cast iron boilers that my plumber installed, what seems like yesterday,but was 25 years ago. At a cost of $950 each for 275k btu output in now looks like a deal .They still run great but the chimney is has deteriorated. I am going to have the same plumber install 2 of these new wall mount style . My plumber is retiring this year. When they shit the bed in 10 years, I hope you answer your phone to do the repairs .It’s hard to find professionals these days, I can’t imagine what it’s going to be like 10 years from now
Glad you found it helpful! We’ll be around and answering the phone and I agree it has gotten harder… this is why our training for apprentices includes an in house training program to teach them everything from install to troubleshooting in a standardized curriculum so we can make more technicians lol
I'm not a heating/plumbing/hvac guy but some in the comments seem to think that cast iron is better because it's simpler and therefore more reliable. My thinking is that if high efficiency boilers cost more wouldn't it make good sense to use the money saved by going cast iron to add insulation and air sealing to your home? That would make up for some of the efficiency discrepancy I would think. The most efficient boiler in the world is not saving anyone money if the insulation is substandard. Am I right?
100%, and great point… we tell people we prefer cast iron because of reliability. Dunkirk cast iron or any of them are pretty solid… no callbacks for years and they just run. Insulation is more important for sure. I’ve seen people do windows doors and insulation and knock 50% off their bill. Granted windows and doors are super expensive but the insulation alone is a cheap upgrade that goes a long way
Good point. In Poland 6 to 8 inch of exterior insulation and 3 pan window are common standard. No matter what type of boiler or best windows you have without proper home insulation you will not save any money. HE boiler is addition to the entire process which need to be made to get higher efficiency and bigger savings. This is big investment but savings show up every month especially in the northern zone.
For more videos like this on how you can get the best HVAC for your home and avoid common mistakes, make sure you’re subscribed to the channel here youtube.com/@TheHVACDopeShow?sub_confirmation=1
I currently have a 30 year old iron boiler. Recently renovated parts of my house and ran ductwork to my attic for future central air/ heat pump and I have solar panels that I own. I feel for me a cast iron is a no brainer in the case I get a heat pump, the boiler can be a great reliable auxiliary heat source. Most parts sold at a local Home Depot as well.
Yes for what it's worth I think the triangle tube solo is more reliable than the combi and I believe water quality affects it the most. With the solo you'll need a sidearm / indirect fired but in my experience they're more reliable
As a plumber, I would go with a cast-iron boiler. You will not ever get a high-efficiency boiler to last as long as a cast-iron boiler. And with a cast-iron boiler, you will have less headaches and less service calls.
Looking at this from a Dutch perspective, here the only boiler you can get is High efficiency condensing (has been so since 2006). You mentioned cast iron boilers are cheaper, I just looked up the price of the model I have (Intergas kombi kompakt HRE 28/24) it was €935 on the first google result. Even if a cast iron boiler was free the gas saving will be worth it in about 5 years.
Installation costs will dwarf that and we don’t have that system here, also they’re less reliable. After lots of failures we really don’t like combi boilers or high efficiency, cast iron is solid and we don’t get callbacks… even with a perfect install (ours are legit, very clean work, my guys take pride in what they do) we’ve still found that the combis have issues… not sure if it’s related to Colorado water quality or what but either way not really a fan anymore
Really hard to answer that question because it depends what the contractors doing in terms of trim pieces… one time we quoted a bid and then someone else quoted half of what we were charging but wasn’t replacing any of the zone valves / expansion tank / fill valve etc so the customer still chose us because that was an incomplete bid and not like for like… it’s more important to just make sure they’re following best practices so the install works well when you’re done. Otherwise you’re having constant issues with other little components breaking down constantly. Ballpark range 15-25k? Depends on your region, because if you live in an area with a high cost of living it will go up, or larger homes. Cost is something we get asked about often but it varies widely because a lot of contractors don’t know how they’re supposed to be pricing themselves and some are too cheap especially new companies / one man shows. Just know that fittings in particular add up very quickly.
And for what it’s worth if you’re wanting the most reliable system I’d go for a cast iron. The combi boilers are reliable too but we’ve had more issues with water quality (hard water) causing premature corrosion on parts and causing issues with the system working. This is only an occasional issue with hard water and not the norm, but if you have a cast iron currently they’re definitely more reliable and we prefer to put them in.
@@TheHVACDopeShow I wish there was a service that we could take a bid we are given and find out if it is even reasonable. I don't mind paying for quality work, and I understand fixed costs, but unfortunately, it is usually overpriced and under-delivered when it comes to HVAC.
@@TheHVACDopeShow Is this issue with the hard water effecting the DHW heat exchanger or the firetube system or CH end? I am a Plumbing and heating contractor myself on the fence with the combi units vs heat only with an indirect tank. Thanks for the videos!!
The cost of equipment, installation, maintenance and upkeep, not to mention the shorter lifespan, is reason enough to pass on going with a condensing boiler.
You’re better off with a steel boiler that transfers heat faster and more efficiently- such as Energy Kinetics gas or oil boiler.. My last steel boiler was over 60 years old still going strong. Check out the Energy Kinetics boilers. Best made in the country.
I emailed them, will talk to them more and find out about their products. Thanks for the comment I love learning about products I’m not familiar with… honestly all the stuff now seems engineered to break lol and it gets really annoying for the contractor (even though it’s an income source) because it makes us look like dodos for something that only lasts a few years before a major service call. I’ve ripped out brands on our own dime that were junk just because we were tired of callbacks and it was definitely a weird / brand specific issue basically a lemon… If these stainless systems are reliable that would be a great alternative. I mean boilers require more repairs anyways between all the transformers and zone valves and pumps etc, but you would like the heat exchanger not to crap out after 10 years. 60 is amazing but even just a solid reliable 20-30 would eliminate a lot of headaches.
Cast iron all the way, condensing never pays off with cost and maintainenceu. It only works for the hvac companies who will service them. Cast iron hydronic system with a indirect is the best setup.
I agree we always prefer cast iron because they’re more reliable, it doesn’t serve us if something is going out under warranty! But sometimes we’re unable to install a cast iron if there’s not an existing Flue so high efficiency is the only option, or something induced draft / sometimes a copper fin tube.
Of course they have to make money but why don't they jack up their per hour rate rather than selling a $3500 boulder for $6000 ?? It just leaves a bad taste in the consumers mouth - of course not everyone know about SupplyHouse and other suppliers where we get to see the actual cost? @@TheHVACDopeShow
Really? That's news to me I've never seen one that doesn't condense especially on cold start up when the temperature difference between the water is prone to cause condensation and the exhaust is always moist
Thank you for taking the time to explain the differences between the 2 boilers. You helped me decide to go with the condensing boiler. I have an old 2 family Georgian, with a 150 year old chimney, servicing 2 cast iron boilers that my plumber installed,
what seems like yesterday,but was 25 years ago. At a cost of $950 each for 275k btu output in now looks like a deal .They still run great but the chimney is has deteriorated. I am going to have the same plumber install 2 of these new wall mount style . My plumber is retiring this year. When they shit the bed in 10 years, I hope you answer your phone to do the repairs .It’s hard to find professionals these days, I can’t imagine what it’s going to be like 10 years from now
Glad you found it helpful! We’ll be around and answering the phone and I agree it has gotten harder… this is why our training for apprentices includes an in house training program to teach them everything from install to troubleshooting in a standardized curriculum so we can make more technicians lol
I'm not a heating/plumbing/hvac guy but some in the comments seem to think that cast iron is better because it's simpler and therefore more reliable. My thinking is that if high efficiency boilers cost more wouldn't it make good sense to use the money saved by going cast iron to add insulation and air sealing to your home? That would make up for some of the efficiency discrepancy I would think. The most efficient boiler in the world is not saving anyone money if the insulation is substandard. Am I right?
100%, and great point… we tell people we prefer cast iron because of reliability. Dunkirk cast iron or any of them are pretty solid… no callbacks for years and they just run. Insulation is more important for sure. I’ve seen people do windows doors and insulation and knock 50% off their bill. Granted windows and doors are super expensive but the insulation alone is a cheap upgrade that goes a long way
Good point. In Poland 6 to 8 inch of exterior insulation and 3 pan window are common standard. No matter what type of boiler or best windows you have without proper home insulation you will not save any money. HE boiler is addition to the entire process which need to be made to get higher efficiency and bigger savings. This is big investment but savings show up every month especially in the northern zone.
For more videos like this on how you can get the best HVAC for your home and avoid common mistakes, make sure you’re subscribed to the channel here youtube.com/@TheHVACDopeShow?sub_confirmation=1
I currently have a 30 year old iron boiler. Recently renovated parts of my house and ran ductwork to my attic for future central air/ heat pump and I have solar panels that I own. I feel for me a cast iron is a no brainer in the case I get a heat pump, the boiler can be a great reliable auxiliary heat source. Most parts sold at a local Home Depot as well.
Yes they’re very reliable!
So if I have old cast iron radiators in my house can I still upgrade to a condensing boiler or even a combi?
Yes for what it's worth I think the triangle tube solo is more reliable than the combi and I believe water quality affects it the most. With the solo you'll need a sidearm / indirect fired but in my experience they're more reliable
As a plumber, I would go with a cast-iron boiler. You will not ever get a high-efficiency boiler to last as long as a cast-iron boiler. And with a cast-iron boiler, you will have less headaches and less service calls.
Looking at this from a Dutch perspective, here the only boiler you can get is High efficiency condensing (has been so since 2006).
You mentioned cast iron boilers are cheaper, I just looked up the price of the model I have (Intergas kombi kompakt HRE 28/24) it was €935 on the first google result.
Even if a cast iron boiler was free the gas saving will be worth it in about 5 years.
Installation costs will dwarf that and we don’t have that system here, also they’re less reliable. After lots of failures we really don’t like combi boilers or high efficiency, cast iron is solid and we don’t get callbacks… even with a perfect install (ours are legit, very clean work, my guys take pride in what they do) we’ve still found that the combis have issues… not sure if it’s related to Colorado water quality or what but either way not really a fan anymore
Swapping out a modern boiler against ancient tech needs more than replacing it .
ua-cam.com/video/wFOpHNz7Fdc/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Also in Colorado gas is so cheap all this is really moot, mid winter $100 for gas! Now if I were in Cali!
Gas is cheaper, but propane isn’t. I always prefer cast iron installs for reliability reasons so if people are ok with cast iron we stick with them
What are the average costs for these two setups?
Really hard to answer that question because it depends what the contractors doing in terms of trim pieces… one time we quoted a bid and then someone else quoted half of what we were charging but wasn’t replacing any of the zone valves / expansion tank / fill valve etc so the customer still chose us because that was an incomplete bid and not like for like… it’s more important to just make sure they’re following best practices so the install works well when you’re done. Otherwise you’re having constant issues with other little components breaking down constantly. Ballpark range 15-25k? Depends on your region, because if you live in an area with a high cost of living it will go up, or larger homes. Cost is something we get asked about often but it varies widely because a lot of contractors don’t know how they’re supposed to be pricing themselves and some are too cheap especially new companies / one man shows. Just know that fittings in particular add up very quickly.
And for what it’s worth if you’re wanting the most reliable system I’d go for a cast iron. The combi boilers are reliable too but we’ve had more issues with water quality (hard water) causing premature corrosion on parts and causing issues with the system working. This is only an occasional issue with hard water and not the norm, but if you have a cast iron currently they’re definitely more reliable and we prefer to put them in.
@@TheHVACDopeShow I wish there was a service that we could take a bid we are given and find out if it is even reasonable. I don't mind paying for quality work, and I understand fixed costs, but unfortunately, it is usually overpriced and under-delivered when it comes to HVAC.
@@TheHVACDopeShow
Is this issue with the hard water effecting the DHW heat exchanger or the firetube system or CH end? I am a Plumbing and heating contractor myself on the fence with the combi units vs heat only with an indirect tank. Thanks for the videos!!
The cost of equipment, installation, maintenance and upkeep, not to mention the shorter lifespan, is reason enough to pass on going with a condensing boiler.
I don't disagree
Not knowing how to properly setting a condensing boiler up doesn't mean it is a bad product.
These pictures of ancient radiators say's enough
👍👍👍
You’re better off with a steel boiler that transfers heat faster and more efficiently- such as Energy Kinetics gas or oil boiler.. My last steel boiler was over 60 years old still going strong. Check out the Energy Kinetics boilers. Best made in the country.
I emailed them, will talk to them more and find out about their products. Thanks for the comment I love learning about products I’m not familiar with… honestly all the stuff now seems engineered to break lol and it gets really annoying for the contractor (even though it’s an income source) because it makes us look like dodos for something that only lasts a few years before a major service call. I’ve ripped out brands on our own dime that were junk just because we were tired of callbacks and it was definitely a weird / brand specific issue basically a lemon… If these stainless systems are reliable that would be a great alternative. I mean boilers require more repairs anyways between all the transformers and zone valves and pumps etc, but you would like the heat exchanger not to crap out after 10 years. 60 is amazing but even just a solid reliable 20-30 would eliminate a lot of headaches.
Cast iron all the way, condensing never pays off with cost and maintainenceu. It only works for the hvac companies who will service them. Cast iron hydronic system with a indirect is the best setup.
I agree we always prefer cast iron because they’re more reliable, it doesn’t serve us if something is going out under warranty! But sometimes we’re unable to install a cast iron if there’s not an existing Flue so high efficiency is the only option, or something induced draft / sometimes a copper fin tube.
@@TheHVACDopeShow you could always just do a direct vent cast iron if you don't have a chimney for atmospheric vent.
Biggest issue is all the installer want to make up Boilers vs from supply house and charge $$$$ to install.
How is that an issue? That’s how installation companies turn a profit and cover their overhead…
Of course they have to make money but why don't they jack up their per hour rate rather than selling a $3500 boulder for $6000 ?? It just leaves a bad taste in the consumers mouth - of course not everyone know about SupplyHouse and other suppliers where we get to see the actual cost? @@TheHVACDopeShow
Much of the energy saving is gone with repair and maintenance costs on a Condensing boiler. parts cost a fortune and are not readily available.
I prefer cast iron if we can, they don’t break down and have less warranty calls that’s for sure.
And, a condensing boiler doesn't always condense.
Really? That's news to me I've never seen one that doesn't condense especially on cold start up when the temperature difference between the water is prone to cause condensation and the exhaust is always moist
Bingo. Depends on return temp.
The guy keeps waving his hands around. Too distracting. He must not be very confident in his words.
It’s to keep people engaged since everyone now has a 4 second attention span lol