I'm sure you can lock the auto into manual when you flick the lever to the left and it won't change up... if the box is in auto and you flick the paddles it will temporarily put you into the fake manual mode your mentioning. Just had to test this in my RS5 😅 lol
@@stu24pot Someone commented on this car you "put the Audi in Dynamic, gearbox in sport and THEN in manual... Only then you will hit the rev limiter and it wont shift for you!!" which matches the VW implementation (S first then manual), I know for next time :)
@@tyrereviews Yeah I thought that... Back to your review though, the Audi RS4/5 are great everyday cars but there is something missing and it definitely can't touch Bmw power and driving dynamics... if it wasn't for the suspension, I would of kept my g80 m3... Anyway, great review as always... Looking forward to you doing an EV tyre comparison test
😢@@stu24potI got to agree. I'm a huge Audi nut, both a rs6 and a 3.0 diesel but BMW are absolute outclassing Audi now in terms of looks, power, handling etc. That M3 looks leagues better than the rs4
@@alastairtreymaine1964 absolutely 💯 I had the G80 m3 xdrive for a month but my wife said it has to go because the ride was too harsh so I went for the RS5 which was good but felt numb. The Audi RS6 was a super fun family car but felt wide on our country roads... RS3 was spot on but the boot was like my wife's mini 😂 If I go M3 touring, I will need to spend £2k to soften the suspension
i'd love to see an up-to-date video clearing up the confusion between quattro ultra, torsen, haldex, etc.. and showing their real-world differences on ice, not just with rollers.
I currently own an RS4, it is incredible with winter tyres in the snow. Have just placed an order for M3 touring. I think this video confirms what I thought that it would be difficult to beat the RS4. Brilliant video as usual.
No, they're not. All Audis are front-heavy, understeer and have no feel. And there is no such thing as "true Quattro" since it's just an empty marketing term.
@@bak1z Yes, I do. I absolutely have the MOST knowledge and experience. I've tested those systems since I got my license, and I learned to drive on snow and ice before I got my license. I know the exact tech of each car. I've done countless hours of testing up North...where I've lived most of my life. Every single day almost...for several decades now. I tested all relevant cars (which I wanted to) when they were introduced. I even had access to cars like no-one else through our family and my friends since we had lots of cars in our family (with special circumstances meaning we had ever changing cars). I personally had Audi sponsorship for some time, which gave me access to their press fleet so I could test one car and then switch when I wanted. I've tested tires, and I know R&D heads of tire companies. I've compared driving technique and our thoughts on cars with my friends in WRC, who have tested F1, etc. I have excellent, competitive times on tracks including the Nürburgring. But I have especially much experience in snow and ice driving. I've even studied auto industry business strategies in university (and I also studied at technical university), that's how interested I am in this overall subject. Can you even explain exactly which tech each of the different Audi and BMW models uses?
I'm glad both cars are almost identical in ride. Everyone can choose what they like and what fits better, while getting the best every time. Other imperfections are only between the pedals and the seat. That's why I would always choose a BMW for the rear drive option and year round fun.
It would have been cool to have a subaru in there and explain the differences in the fundamental differences in those systems. And also get into the details of a symmetric system
Great video, I'm sure you had fun doing this. IMO, the better cornering agility that you experience in the corner handling of the Audi, is that the quarto splits the power 50-50 through the centre diff , whereas the BMW is 60-40 as you mentioned . The Audi gearbox shifting up at the rev limiter also helps in saving the gear box from inexperienced drivers who mash the throttle pedal on very slippery conditions ( as Ice) and destroying the transmission. Thank you for your good work, keep it up. Greetings from Canada.
There are some videos by UA-cam content makers ( right phrase?) which when I break up for Christmas have to have their timely near end of year new videos. This makes my holiday season official. You have not disappointed:) this will make no sense to yourself and anyone else.
Sorry, this comment isn't really related to this video, but is a possible suggestion for a future video. I was out snow-wheeling a few days ago and got in a discussion with another snow-wheeler about tire chains. The conditions were heavily compacted snow at temperatures just above freezing -- almost like wet ice. We couldn't agree if it was safer to install a single set of chains on the front or rear axle of a 4X4. He thought it was safer to install them on the front as the front tires steer. I claim it is safer to install them on the rear tires as having the higher traction in the rear improves stability. I thought someone would have already done a UA-cam video on this, but I couldn't find one. I can't think of anyone else on UA-cam that could test this with nearly the diligence that you could. I'd love to see a comparison of front vs. rear chains on ice. Hopefully you find this suggestion interesting.
You're both right! Each choice as positives and negatives. When snow wheeling I would probably install on the front axle as that does more work, but be VERY careful and mindful that I couldn't turn at all quickly, then take them off at the earliest possible opportunity.
I guess defining what safer is might influence what a correct answer would be. Chains installed on the back could result in understeer since the steering axle does not have the same traction. But it could be possible for the vehicle to swap ends if the chains were installed on the front axle.
This is a good question. I know that my Mazda CX-5 recommends, if only one set of chains, to put them on the front. My best educated guess is that it's a front wheel drive bias vehicle? Also of note, I tried putting chains on my CrossClimates and got worse performance. I think it's because the chains interfere with the snow grooves.
@@tyrereviews I skipped over a lot of the details. The issue came up because a third driver (inexperienced in snow) was putting on chains before heading down a slick hill. In this situation the chains were going to be needed almost exclusively for slowing and stopping, not to get moving. I agree that there are times when having the chains on the front is the better choice. For example when pushing through dense snow makes getting moving hard, but stopping easy. But I claim that in any situation where stopping is the biggest concern, then chains on the rear tires is safer. I also didn't mention that just before I had the chains-on-the-front-or-rear discussion (just out of sight, about 100m down the road), I had helped an SUV with the chains on the front get straightened out after it had slid sideways in the road. 🙃
@@wtpauley What kind of chains? I have seen cable chains perform poorly in some conditions. Cable chains generally have little protective tube or spring like pieces over the cross-cables. With very thin snow on pavement, where there wasn't enough snow depth for the chains to sink into, I witnessed the little tube sections act as rollers between the tire and the pavement.
Would say the fact that x-drive is basically a 180° flipped hang on awd with a wet clutchpack instead of a center diff the driving experience you explained was kind of expected. The clutchpack is constantly changing the engagement of the front wheels. So it usually has to feel less predictable than a normal center diff awd with fixed front to rear ratio. ->Like the Audi has. I have had a car from a different manufacturer with a fixed ratio awd system like the audi, and it was stupidly easy to drive on slippery surfaces. I tried it without ESP on snow and with good winter tyres it needed digital throttle input to even break traction. But when doing that, it was like playing Colin McRae Rally 2. So easy to do a 4wheel drift. And with bad winter tyres i managed to do the same thing on a slimy wet winter road when turning 90° from a standstill with a lot of throttle. Absolutely predictable and easy to "ride out". Am now on the successor of said car with the same awd system, but i haven't had the chance to try it on snow yet. Where Audi and Mercedes do "the same" as BMW with x-drive is when they use the words "quattro ultra" and "4matic + ". Both of these are hang on awd systems and should (in my opinion) rather be called quattro light and 4-matic - " The only difference with them to x-drive is that audi with "quattro ultra" usually drives the front wheels. (so it's even more like a normal Haldex hang-on)
I had an Audi Quattro sedan, with a manual transmission, many years ago and I agree with you it was wonderful to drive in snow. You felt like you had great control, even at higher speed, and it was extremely enjoyable to drive. I have not driven the BMW Xdrive system, so I can’t make a comparison.
Nice video! I understand the point on the steering feeling, but if there is enough grip in both cars at the end the winner is the one that sends less power to the front.
An Audi lighter than a BMW??? Then you look at the receipts, and the weight distribution, and the BMW takes its rightful place. Good to know Audi is still on top of its Quattro game.
I live in the UK and owned an Audi A4 Quattro for 7 years. Ran it with Michelin Cross Climate tyres and they were brilliant in all of the UK weather conditions. Now own an Audi Q3 Quattro and run it with Goodyear Vector 4 season tyres, they too are great in all weather conditions. Will never put summer tyres on my cars again in the UK. The Audi Quattro systems especially the Torsen on the A4 is brilliant, the Haldex on the Q3 is good too.
As an xdrive user, in a 20d, not a m3 jajajaja..... Xdrive is just for safety in wet asphalt, in snow, it just makes it slightly better than fwd. Honestly very good video, but slightly off the expected use for most of these cars...
Great video, I had a lot of fun! Although I'm a BMW fan, kudos to Audi for the Quattro! I would still pick the M3, of course! 😍 I even got used to the front, I actually like it! 😅 Btw, which color is the M3? 🥰 love it! Keep up the good work mate! ✌🏼
Great video! I do think both systems are the benchmark when it comes to snow or dry! Very good and very fun! However, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the BMW use SportPacket wheel, which are slightly wider in the rear? I do believe this will cause the car to feel different in the snow especially, as the tyre tests you did with the snow wheels a little while back. Still very good though! Impressive!
You are correct, stock on the G80 is a 285 wide rear (on a 20 inch wheel), however I'm almost certain that this size is a recommended winter size in the handbook (this was filmed a year ago so my memory is a little hazy). The car you see in all the shots also has spacers fitted, slightly wider in the rear for looks. We also ran without the spacers, and while the yaw was slightly lower, the general theme of it compared to the audi was the same. Good thinking though!
Is is the first test ever of a P Zero Winter? Immediately right after successor, the P Zero 2 hits the market ;-) Would be nice to compare P Zero 2 to the newest Continental WinterContact 8 S. Thank you for todays material!
@tyrereviews Conti WC 8S are available in EU fortunately on 'normal' market also. As P Zero 2 is not available in my mixed size, I would go for the 8S instead if nothing changes in the future. P Z Winter are my OE winter * tires.
I’ve always favored the Audi, especially the rs6. It’s my dream car. But I do like the new bmw m3 touring. It’s a fabulous machine that deserves a lot of praise. Good video 👍 it’s a shame I’ll never get the opportunity to own either. I wonder how the Golf R 7.5 would compare to these ultimate beasts on snow. That’s what I drive.
You are shifting all wrong: you need to short-shift or try to time the shift so that when you shift you just barely keep under the threshold of slip. On snow and ice the sooner you can shift (without completely bogging down), the better. For example from 1st to 2nd it's often advantageous to shift super-early. Never go near the rev limiter.
Very interesting video! I like the rigor that goes into your testing. I think a big factor here in straight-line acceleration is weight distribution. It would require some calculations to check, but whichever car will have the most neutral load on both axles will have the advantage, but this load depends on the acceleration itself, so the Audi will get better with the higher grip, whereas the BMW will be disadvantaged in absolute traction grip potential when the grip increases. That being said, they have a certain limit of torque distribution anyway.
Overall I’d say Audi, but close and looking at the race and how often the bmw went sideways, I’d feel more comfortable in a AUDI. My AMG has 4 matic and I’d love to see how it stacks up, especially here in the Canadian winters
The fact that the Audi won’t hold the selected gear in manual is a much bigger deal to me than the RWD bias of BMW. I currently own a RS4 Avante and it annoys me how much it gets in its own way with the systems on. Great car overall but I’m definitely going with the new m5 touring.
Conclusion: In alpine conditions, Audi Quattro. The safest car I have ever driven in snow, and I mean, snow up to the wheel arches in that freak storm in the UK years back, remember doing a decent speed in a bog standard A4 quattro of 1993 vintage on the A3 in the UK. BMW falling by the wayside. I did have to replace the squeaky shocks after that episode. But it was also the most boring - I could never make the back end slide out. Which I now want, with a family in the car. BMW and Porsche, they understand the middle-aged man, though, lol.
Recently i have observed that BMW has got some problems with steering wheel and suspension stability. BMW was known for good handling, but now is getting worse and worse, but meanwhile audi is improving their cars like s3 with torq splitter at the rear. Its happening from F30 where was huge body roll, then some new X6 from 2022+- was bouty as a ship and the latest i4 with massive unstability at higer speed and under fast accelerating. In this time audi has had a4 b8 and b9 which were very correct, then i can compare x6 to Q8, and i can say that audi is as good as cayenne (or even slighty better than porsche). I have driven recently 440i and it felt good but there was problem with traction on pilot sport 4s in 20*C at dry asphalt.
Simultaneously starting and having the correct gear engaged doesn't seem to be your strong suit 🤪 Just kidding, nice video, although I would have to admit that I would prefer the Michelin tyres to be compared.
4Matic+ just like BMW's xDrive is far better than Audis...because Audis are front-heavy, understeer, and lack feel. Also Jaguars, Maseratis, Alfas, Cadillacs with AWD are better than Audis.
@@pistonburner6448 Yeah, thats why RS4 B9 holds fastest 18m slalomspeed for wagon and sedans in history. Mate, wake up. And thats "lack feel", where author was very optimistic about... car feeling better than bmw. Time to wake up.
@ They do not hold fastest 18m slalom speed. Audis factually do lack feel. Their FWD-based VW platform ruins the car from the start, and I have inside source info to prove it: ever since the 90's st least Audi engineers have been begging management to allow them to switch to a proper platform like BMW's (and Merc, Maserati, Alfa, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc.) but they haven't been allowed for VW platform and parts sharing cost savings. You can't design proper suspension like that, it's band-aids over band-aids. It's a mess. Especially when they have to also dampen out the driveline effects in their horrible "Audi-way" by just crudely dampening everything which also removes all feel.
@@pistonburner6448The MLB is an Audi platform not a VW platform. The only VW car on the MLB is the Touareg. The VW platform is MQB which A1, A3,Q3 sit on same as the Golf. There’s two types of Quatrro, Quattro ultra which is Haldex/Magna and traditional Quattro with a proper diff.
It doesn't really look like the Audi had the edge to me. In the launches the one who started first almost always won, and the measured times were better in the BMW. There's also the ice test where xDrive performed noticeably better. There was no hill climb test, but since xDrive can send 100% of its power to the rear vs quattro's 85% I'd expect the BMW to perform slightly better. I'm not saying the differences are big enough to matter, the main decision point here is whether you prefer a more fun vs an easier experience. But it sure looks like the BMW had the edge.
We did do a hill climb test but even on the biggest hill pirelli have, with the awd there was no problem at all with either cars, and the hills weren't wide enough to run them side by side
@@tyrereviews makes sense, I honestly wouldn't expect either of these to have problems on a hill. Regardless, this is an amazing test and I'm happy we have someone like you who pays attention to variables. You were right in the video, other comparisons I see online all have different tyres which defeats the whole purpose.
To really test the AWD systems, surely stick the cars on rubbish tyres and see which handles it better? 10 year old part-worn summer tyres should do it 😄 That said, Quattro won this relatively conclusively, but this also proved both are good enough that the "which is better" debate is for fun and in real world doesn't change much. For snow, I'll take...something Japanese, GR Yaris, Scooby or Evo. Except really I'd take 2WD, summer tyres and food delivery, someone else can deal with the weather 🤣
I could be wrong put front bias AWD frickin sucks in the snow and will understeer. Hopefully the RS badge can fix that problem. My point is drifting in the snow is one of the most fun driving experiences you can do and it's the best with real 4 wheel drive. Ironically the best winter car I've ever drifted in was a late 00s Ford escape lol. You can get sideways and not worry about tipping like most SUVs.
I understand the other drivers that you reference a professional or semi-professional drivers as well? However, the question "who is better in Audi VS BMW" most often bothers drivers with way less skill, yet they state that their brand of choice is always better, in everything. So it would be good to give somebody like that also do the test and see what is fastest, safest and altogether best for an average driver, like most of us. Like it's not that "my car beats your car" that is important in such holy wars, but whether "you in you car will beat yourself in other car" :D
Can I suggest that you could include a much less powerful version of one of those cars to the comparison next time? I mean something like a 2.0 NA car with comparable AWD system. That would clearly show how much power is useful in that kind of conditions. I bet the least powerful car wouldn't be slower at all on a short and slow lap like this.
@@tyrereviews You have to go into the drive select system and select RS mode and configure it so that the transmission is in sport mode. Then it won't automatically shift up when the rev limiter is reached. Believe me, I drive the car regularly ;-) The dynamic mode alone is not enough to prevent upshifting, it has to be the RS mode. Awesome video btw..
@@tyrereviews A good way to check whether it is fully manual is to look at the gear indication in the cockpit. If it says e.g. M1S in white letters, its NOT fully manual. If it is M1S in red letters, its fully manual. Even the newer S-Models like the S3 now have this feature, Audi is finally stepping up their game...
I think this video is not appropriate and not exactly telling the truth… You may say the BMW has the power advantage, but in this condition I don’t think it is… I think this Bmw has too much power for this race… Im sure You could make a better run with M340i . I think the only real and fair comparison is if you get both cars with similar power and weight
Does not make sense for you to call in the starts, of course the other driver is not going to be able to react as quickly because you are off as you say go and he has to react to it. Get an independent person to call it in.
You didnt tested most important thing. Start from uphill. That is where you can see what is better sistem. Audi have torsen which is all time all wheel drive, Bmw have clutch based system which sent power to front when rear is slipping.
he did this before in an old x drive vs quattro video. every time they ran the uphill test, one car would just sit there bogging, the other would easily go up. after a re run, it would be the other way around. was just random
This isn't true, xDrive is a permanent AWD system else there would be no point in using a transfer case like it does. The default torque split is 40/60 or 30/70, depending on model, and can send up to 50% to the front and up to 100% to the rear.
It’d be interesting to compare a non-performance xDrive with Quattro with Ultra like a M340i bs an S4. Both disconnect the other axle during cruise using Magna’s FLEX4 so in reality they’re the almost the same AWD system.
It's so disappointing how BMW lost the plot regarding steering. They used to have lovely steering, but since they switched to electric power steering, they've never recovered. Now Audi, which has historically been known for dead steering, is now doing better steering than BMW!
@@maximus9401 Both cars are obviously fast enough in all conditions. So, for me it's a matter of overal driving and owning experience and personal preferences. Few tenths more or less rarely matter in the real life. My pick is BMW (not only M3 but generally), however, I respect anyone's individual choice.
The rs4 handles better than the m3. Just check out track battles. The audi understeer stereotype is just completely outdated and not true. Audis awd system takes corners better and despite audi having less power because of course bmw heavily understates power the audi still wins. Typical clueless bmw fangirl
@DudeThedudesky really? I recomend you to check the laptimes of the RS4 B9 vs BMW M3 Touring because you will have a big surprise... check the Zeperfs or fastestlaps websites and you will see that the RS4 is slower in every single track than the M3 Touring, in fact the M3 Touring is even faster than the RS6 Performance on track... the RS models don't have the huge understeer they are used to had in the past but they're not on the BMW league in terms of handling!
RS4 quattro has torque-vectoring and also a default of 60% power to the back... where do you expect understear coming from? This old school-yard FWD vs RWD argument of BMW-fanboys is outdated for ... yea well since most of us still went to school.
@Brunoperes_88 a rs6 isn't meant to compete with a m3t? Also the website you shown only has bmw m3 touring COMP which is 20000 euros more than the rs4 that they have. A 1-2 second difference with a car that has about 100hp less and costs 20000 euros less. Good job man you just shot yourself in the leg. I also just checked rs5 vs bmw m4 competition xdrive with also 100hp more and costing about 20000 euros more it was only a 1-2 seconds on track difference. You really shot yourself in the leg ☠️ also bmw has struts in the front whilst audi uses multilink which is much much better and much more expensive to produce. Your just stupid and clueless about cars. I drove most the f and g series m cars and all rs cars so I know how they handle aswell.
PLEASE GO review your tires at www.tyrereviews.com 🥰
I'm sure you can lock the auto into manual when you flick the lever to the left and it won't change up... if the box is in auto and you flick the paddles it will temporarily put you into the fake manual mode your mentioning.
Just had to test this in my RS5 😅 lol
@@stu24pot Someone commented on this car you "put the Audi in Dynamic, gearbox in sport and THEN in manual... Only then you will hit the rev limiter and it wont shift for you!!" which matches the VW implementation (S first then manual), I know for next time :)
@@tyrereviews Yeah I thought that... Back to your review though, the Audi RS4/5 are great everyday cars but there is something missing and it definitely can't touch Bmw power and driving dynamics... if it wasn't for the suspension, I would of kept my g80 m3...
Anyway, great review as always... Looking forward to you doing an EV tyre comparison test
😢@@stu24potI got to agree. I'm a huge Audi nut, both a rs6 and a 3.0 diesel but BMW are absolute outclassing Audi now in terms of looks, power, handling etc. That M3 looks leagues better than the rs4
@@alastairtreymaine1964 absolutely 💯
I had the G80 m3 xdrive for a month but my wife said it has to go because the ride was too harsh so I went for the RS5 which was good but felt numb. The Audi RS6 was a super fun family car but felt wide on our country roads... RS3 was spot on but the boot was like my wife's mini 😂
If I go M3 touring, I will need to spend £2k to soften the suspension
I can't afford either but still want to know!! 😂
hahaha yes
Me too, i was looking for this comment 😂
We are with you brother 😂
i'd love to see an up-to-date video clearing up the confusion between quattro ultra, torsen, haldex, etc.. and showing their real-world differences on ice, not just with rollers.
I currently own an RS4, it is incredible with winter tyres in the snow. Have just placed an order for M3 touring. I think this video confirms what I thought that it would be difficult to beat the RS4. Brilliant video as usual.
This Is best video for 2024😂🎉
True Quattro Audis and Subarus with the true mechanical awd are an insane thing to behold in winter conditions with the right tires.
Best part about Subarus is that you will always find your way back home because of the trail of oil you leave behind xD
No, they're not. All Audis are front-heavy, understeer and have no feel.
And there is no such thing as "true Quattro" since it's just an empty marketing term.
@@pistonburner6448you have no clue what you are talking about
@@pistonburner6448 Audis are front heavy with their 56:44 weight distribution, when Subarus are 60:40 and there is everything ok?
@@bak1z Yes, I do. I absolutely have the MOST knowledge and experience. I've tested those systems since I got my license, and I learned to drive on snow and ice before I got my license. I know the exact tech of each car. I've done countless hours of testing up North...where I've lived most of my life. Every single day almost...for several decades now.
I tested all relevant cars (which I wanted to) when they were introduced. I even had access to cars like no-one else through our family and my friends since we had lots of cars in our family (with special circumstances meaning we had ever changing cars). I personally had Audi sponsorship for some time, which gave me access to their press fleet so I could test one car and then switch when I wanted.
I've tested tires, and I know R&D heads of tire companies. I've compared driving technique and our thoughts on cars with my friends in WRC, who have tested F1, etc. I have excellent, competitive times on tracks including the Nürburgring. But I have especially much experience in snow and ice driving.
I've even studied auto industry business strategies in university (and I also studied at technical university), that's how interested I am in this overall subject.
Can you even explain exactly which tech each of the different Audi and BMW models uses?
Thank you for this test.
Thank you for watching
Big respect how much effort you put into your videos! 🔥
Great video. I think these cars accelerate faster on snow than mine does on tarmac. 😂
FINALLY! a test as it should be...
I'm glad both cars are almost identical in ride.
Everyone can choose what they like and what fits better, while getting the best every time.
Other imperfections are only between the pedals and the seat.
That's why I would always choose a BMW for the rear drive option and year round fun.
It would have been cool to have a subaru in there and explain the differences in the fundamental differences in those systems. And also get into the details of a symmetric system
Subies are cool but that system is blown out of proportions, so overrated.
@@MyRealNameyeah it’s just as good as Mazdas. The “symmetrical” part actually only refers to how it looks, not power distribution or anything.
My 2017 MK7.5 Golf R had way better traction in snow than my brothers 2015 WRX STI on the same tyres. Generations apart.
Alfa's Q4 would be a much better competitor.
@@OmarZ77 there's no torque steer with a symmetrical system
Two of my favorite cars that I can't have.... thanks for this video
Great video, I'm sure you had fun doing this. IMO, the better cornering agility that you experience in the corner handling of the Audi, is that the quarto splits the power 50-50 through the centre diff , whereas the BMW is 60-40 as you mentioned . The Audi gearbox shifting up at the rev limiter also helps in saving the gear box from inexperienced drivers who mash the throttle pedal on very slippery conditions ( as Ice) and destroying the transmission. Thank you for your good work, keep it up. Greetings from Canada.
There are some videos by UA-cam content makers ( right phrase?) which when I break up for Christmas have to have their timely near end of year new videos. This makes my holiday season official. You have not disappointed:) this will make no sense to yourself and anyone else.
I hope it was worth the wait!
dude your videos are always epic and educational @tyrereviews
i had most fun on the snow in bmw E46 320d with RWD, DSC 50% off and good winter tires 😊😊😊
320ds are always epic in the snow
Cool das alle schreiben. Quattro ist the Best. Aber der BMW jeden einzelnen Vergleich gewonnen hat ^^. (8:21min)
Cool dass Audi trotzdem wesentlich spurtreuer ist und durch das rein mechanische Mittendifferential effizienter Arbeitet und somit sicherer ist
When the music started playing at 22:22 I thought my neighbour had started cutting plasterboard.
Sorry, this comment isn't really related to this video, but is a possible suggestion for a future video. I was out snow-wheeling a few days ago and got in a discussion with another snow-wheeler about tire chains. The conditions were heavily compacted snow at temperatures just above freezing -- almost like wet ice. We couldn't agree if it was safer to install a single set of chains on the front or rear axle of a 4X4. He thought it was safer to install them on the front as the front tires steer. I claim it is safer to install them on the rear tires as having the higher traction in the rear improves stability. I thought someone would have already done a UA-cam video on this, but I couldn't find one. I can't think of anyone else on UA-cam that could test this with nearly the diligence that you could. I'd love to see a comparison of front vs. rear chains on ice. Hopefully you find this suggestion interesting.
You're both right! Each choice as positives and negatives. When snow wheeling I would probably install on the front axle as that does more work, but be VERY careful and mindful that I couldn't turn at all quickly, then take them off at the earliest possible opportunity.
I guess defining what safer is might influence what a correct answer would be. Chains installed on the back could result in understeer since the steering axle does not have the same traction. But it could be possible for the vehicle to swap ends if the chains were installed on the front axle.
This is a good question. I know that my Mazda CX-5 recommends, if only one set of chains, to put them on the front. My best educated guess is that it's a front wheel drive bias vehicle?
Also of note, I tried putting chains on my CrossClimates and got worse performance. I think it's because the chains interfere with the snow grooves.
@@tyrereviews I skipped over a lot of the details. The issue came up because a third driver (inexperienced in snow) was putting on chains before heading down a slick hill. In this situation the chains were going to be needed almost exclusively for slowing and stopping, not to get moving. I agree that there are times when having the chains on the front is the better choice. For example when pushing through dense snow makes getting moving hard, but stopping easy. But I claim that in any situation where stopping is the biggest concern, then chains on the rear tires is safer.
I also didn't mention that just before I had the chains-on-the-front-or-rear discussion (just out of sight, about 100m down the road), I had helped an SUV with the chains on the front get straightened out after it had slid sideways in the road. 🙃
@@wtpauley What kind of chains? I have seen cable chains perform poorly in some conditions. Cable chains generally have little protective tube or spring like pieces over the cross-cables. With very thin snow on pavement, where there wasn't enough snow depth for the chains to sink into, I witnessed the little tube sections act as rollers between the tire and the pavement.
I love your videos as well as Mat Watson's from CarWow, but I appreciate your steady count-down vs Mat's Three.........Two...OneGo 😀
That's what i was talking about get in quattro 😁👍🔥
Thanks for the review and... nice Free Hiker Gore-Tex boots.
Fun test!
Would say the fact that x-drive is basically a 180° flipped hang on awd with a wet clutchpack instead of a center diff the driving experience you explained was kind of expected. The clutchpack is constantly changing the engagement of the front wheels. So it usually has to feel less predictable than a normal center diff awd with fixed front to rear ratio. ->Like the Audi has. I have had a car from a different manufacturer with a fixed ratio awd system like the audi, and it was stupidly easy to drive on slippery surfaces. I tried it without ESP on snow and with good winter tyres it needed digital throttle input to even break traction. But when doing that, it was like playing Colin McRae Rally 2. So easy to do a 4wheel drift.
And with bad winter tyres i managed to do the same thing on a slimy wet winter road when turning 90° from a standstill with a lot of throttle. Absolutely predictable and easy to "ride out".
Am now on the successor of said car with the same awd system, but i haven't had the chance to try it on snow yet.
Where Audi and Mercedes do "the same" as BMW with x-drive is when they use the words "quattro ultra" and "4matic + ".
Both of these are hang on awd systems and should (in my opinion) rather be called quattro light and 4-matic - "
The only difference with them to x-drive is that audi with "quattro ultra" usually drives the front wheels. (so it's even more like a normal Haldex hang-on)
i was not aware the M3 AWD system was like that, I guess that explains everything!
Great fun review btw 👍🏼
Am I ever going to buy winter tyres? No. Did I watch it keenly start to finish… yes!
I had an Audi Quattro sedan, with a manual transmission, many years ago and I agree with you it was wonderful to drive in snow. You felt like you had great control, even at higher speed, and it was extremely enjoyable to drive. I have not driven the BMW Xdrive system, so I can’t make a comparison.
❤ Epic ❤ greetings from Sweden
Another fantastic video mate, Lou especially liked it 🫣👌❤️
I was going to whatsapp you to tell you this is one to watch with lou lol
The winner: Pirelli
Fun test, regardless (IMHO). Reminds me of Audi Quattro in IMSA.
Great video!
Thanks for watching!
Nice video!
I understand the point on the steering feeling, but if there is enough grip in both cars at the end the winner is the one that sends less power to the front.
Christmas has come early!
Thank you for excellent and very exciting video, much appreciated. Kudos to Audi but I'd still pick the BMW. 😉
Me too
An Audi lighter than a BMW??? Then you look at the receipts, and the weight distribution, and the BMW takes its rightful place. Good to know Audi is still on top of its Quattro game.
I live in the UK and owned an Audi A4 Quattro for 7 years. Ran it with Michelin Cross Climate tyres and they were brilliant in all of the UK weather conditions. Now own an Audi Q3 Quattro and run it with Goodyear Vector 4 season tyres, they too are great in all weather conditions. Will never put summer tyres on my cars again in the UK. The Audi Quattro systems especially the Torsen on the A4 is brilliant, the Haldex on the Q3 is good too.
Did you ask Pirelli why don't they make P Zero Winter for 18 inch sizes?
Gosh dang the M3 Touring is so good looking! Sucks we don’t get it in the USA 😭.
Good! ❤ 2:15 Bmw = MAD 😈❤ on my list 2
As an xdrive user, in a 20d, not a m3 jajajaja..... Xdrive is just for safety in wet asphalt, in snow, it just makes it slightly better than fwd. Honestly very good video, but slightly off the expected use for most of these cars...
put the Audi in Dynamic, gearbox in sport and THEN in manual... Only then you will hit the rev limiter and it wont shift for you!!
Ah, I missed the sport part. Still, manual should be manual!
I was about to type that. I own a 2022 RS5 and It can hold the gear like @motodudes said.
It will 1-2 shift, at least mine does. The rest of the gears it’ll hold and bounce off the rev limiter
Great video, I had a lot of fun! Although I'm a BMW fan, kudos to Audi for the Quattro! I would still pick the M3, of course! 😍 I even got used to the front, I actually like it! 😅 Btw, which color is the M3? 🥰 love it!
Keep up the good work mate! ✌🏼
Great video! I do think both systems are the benchmark when it comes to snow or dry! Very good and very fun!
However, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the BMW use SportPacket wheel, which are slightly wider in the rear? I do believe this will cause the car to feel different in the snow especially, as the tyre tests you did with the snow wheels a little while back. Still very good though! Impressive!
You are correct, stock on the G80 is a 285 wide rear (on a 20 inch wheel), however I'm almost certain that this size is a recommended winter size in the handbook (this was filmed a year ago so my memory is a little hazy). The car you see in all the shots also has spacers fitted, slightly wider in the rear for looks. We also ran without the spacers, and while the yaw was slightly lower, the general theme of it compared to the audi was the same. Good thinking though!
I have vehicles equipped with the true versions of both. I like em both.
4Matic?
So despite what we have seen, based on numbers BMW was quicker on the snow? Or im missing something?
Would love to see how Acura's SH-AWD system compares.
Audi in its natural habitat .
Audi natural habitat is in a mechanics workshop 🤭
@@Damianos980 that goes even more for a bmw
@@Damianos980 actually BMW natural habitat is in a mechanics workshop...
Is is the first test ever of a P Zero Winter? Immediately right after successor, the P Zero 2 hits the market ;-) Would be nice to compare P Zero 2 to the newest Continental WinterContact 8 S. Thank you for todays material!
The 8S is contis 'mostly oe line' so it won't really feature in tests, the 8P will, whenever that arrives
@tyrereviews Conti WC 8S are available in EU fortunately on 'normal' market also. As P Zero 2 is not available in my mixed size, I would go for the 8S instead if nothing changes in the future. P Z Winter are my OE winter * tires.
I’ve always favored the Audi, especially the rs6. It’s my dream car. But I do like the new bmw m3 touring. It’s a fabulous machine that deserves a lot of praise. Good video 👍 it’s a shame I’ll never get the opportunity to own either. I wonder how the Golf R 7.5 would compare to these ultimate beasts on snow. That’s what I drive.
Audi quattro is superb
You are shifting all wrong: you need to short-shift or try to time the shift so that when you shift you just barely keep under the threshold of slip. On snow and ice the sooner you can shift (without completely bogging down), the better. For example from 1st to 2nd it's often advantageous to shift super-early. Never go near the rev limiter.
Went to the BMW dealership on a Saturday the other day and just by looking at all the other potential buyers I knew I wasn't one of them.
Very interesting video! I like the rigor that goes into your testing.
I think a big factor here in straight-line acceleration is weight distribution. It would require some calculations to check, but whichever car will have the most neutral load on both axles will have the advantage, but this load depends on the acceleration itself, so the Audi will get better with the higher grip, whereas the BMW will be disadvantaged in absolute traction grip potential when the grip increases. That being said, they have a certain limit of torque distribution anyway.
Overall I’d say Audi, but close and looking at the race and how often the bmw went sideways, I’d feel more comfortable in a AUDI. My AMG has 4 matic and I’d love to see how it stacks up, especially here in the Canadian winters
My RS4 (b9) doesn’t shift up in manual mode. Don’t know why your test car does tbh.
Audi has motor overhang over front axle.. ok for traction on snow.. not so much in bends though
The fact that the Audi won’t hold the selected gear in manual is a much bigger deal to me than the RWD bias of BMW. I currently own a RS4 Avante and it annoys me how much it gets in its own way with the systems on. Great car overall but I’m definitely going with the new m5 touring.
Amongst all the modes, do these cars have a specifc Snow mode ?
I didn't even look. Generally snow modes allow a bit more slip of the esc and change the auto gearboxes, they don't realyl do a huge amount
Audi rs4 ❤️
Conclusion: In alpine conditions, Audi Quattro. The safest car I have ever driven in snow, and I mean, snow up to the wheel arches in that freak storm in the UK years back, remember doing a decent speed in a bog standard A4 quattro of 1993 vintage on the A3 in the UK. BMW falling by the wayside. I did have to replace the squeaky shocks after that episode. But it was also the most boring - I could never make the back end slide out. Which I now want, with a family in the car. BMW and Porsche, they understand the middle-aged man, though, lol.
Recently i have observed that BMW has got some problems with steering wheel and suspension stability. BMW was known for good handling, but now is getting worse and worse, but meanwhile audi is improving their cars like s3 with torq splitter at the rear. Its happening from F30 where was huge body roll, then some new X6 from 2022+- was bouty as a ship and the latest i4 with massive unstability at higer speed and under fast accelerating. In this time audi has had a4 b8 and b9 which were very correct, then i can compare x6 to Q8, and i can say that audi is as good as cayenne (or even slighty better than porsche). I have driven recently 440i and it felt good but there was problem with traction on pilot sport 4s in 20*C at dry asphalt.
Give me both ❤
Just for fun add TM3P😂😂
Simultaneously starting and having the correct gear engaged doesn't seem to be your strong suit 🤪 Just kidding, nice video, although I would have to admit that I would prefer the Michelin tyres to be compared.
you should do a similar test with the 4Matic+ from the AMG models
Will do!
4Matic+ just like BMW's xDrive is far better than Audis...because Audis are front-heavy, understeer, and lack feel.
Also Jaguars, Maseratis, Alfas, Cadillacs with AWD are better than Audis.
@@pistonburner6448 Yeah, thats why RS4 B9 holds fastest 18m slalomspeed for wagon and sedans in history. Mate, wake up. And thats "lack feel", where author was very optimistic about... car feeling better than bmw.
Time to wake up.
@ They do not hold fastest 18m slalom speed.
Audis factually do lack feel. Their FWD-based VW platform ruins the car from the start, and I have inside source info to prove it: ever since the 90's st least Audi engineers have been begging management to allow them to switch to a proper platform like BMW's (and Merc, Maserati, Alfa, Jaguar, Cadillac, etc.) but they haven't been allowed for VW platform and parts sharing cost savings.
You can't design proper suspension like that, it's band-aids over band-aids. It's a mess. Especially when they have to also dampen out the driveline effects in their horrible "Audi-way" by just crudely dampening everything which also removes all feel.
@@pistonburner6448The MLB is an Audi platform not a VW platform. The only VW car on the MLB is the Touareg.
The VW platform is MQB which A1, A3,Q3 sit on same as the Golf. There’s two types of Quatrro, Quattro ultra which is Haldex/Magna and traditional Quattro with a proper diff.
Awesome video. I think if you push the gear stick to the side it locks the gearbox in manual and won't change gear by itself
I did that, apparently you have to jump through some hoops in the computer if you want it to hold gears! I'll know for next time.
@@tyrereviews Too bad, I thought it worked.
Can't wait to try my RS4 B8.5 in snow🙂
they're rally champions after all
You usually get a kitty with a BMW, but when you want a family with this kitty, you buy an Audi.
lol
There has come updates to the Teslas awd systems in the winter 2023.. would be great to see a showdown 2.0, quattro vs Tesla.
Rs
Looks better from every angle..
Don’t care about nothing else
It doesn't really look like the Audi had the edge to me. In the launches the one who started first almost always won, and the measured times were better in the BMW. There's also the ice test where xDrive performed noticeably better. There was no hill climb test, but since xDrive can send 100% of its power to the rear vs quattro's 85% I'd expect the BMW to perform slightly better.
I'm not saying the differences are big enough to matter, the main decision point here is whether you prefer a more fun vs an easier experience. But it sure looks like the BMW had the edge.
We did do a hill climb test but even on the biggest hill pirelli have, with the awd there was no problem at all with either cars, and the hills weren't wide enough to run them side by side
@@tyrereviews makes sense, I honestly wouldn't expect either of these to have problems on a hill.
Regardless, this is an amazing test and I'm happy we have someone like you who pays attention to variables. You were right in the video, other comparisons I see online all have different tyres which defeats the whole purpose.
From the vehicles I've owned I'd only trust Audi, Mitsubishi and Subaru when it comes to AWD system in winter.
Can’t put Quattro in In RWD
Nope?
To really test the AWD systems, surely stick the cars on rubbish tyres and see which handles it better? 10 year old part-worn summer tyres should do it 😄
That said, Quattro won this relatively conclusively, but this also proved both are good enough that the "which is better" debate is for fun and in real world doesn't change much. For snow, I'll take...something Japanese, GR Yaris, Scooby or Evo. Except really I'd take 2WD, summer tyres and food delivery, someone else can deal with the weather 🤣
I could be wrong put front bias AWD frickin sucks in the snow and will understeer. Hopefully the RS badge can fix that problem. My point is drifting in the snow is one of the most fun driving experiences you can do and it's the best with real 4 wheel drive. Ironically the best winter car I've ever drifted in was a late 00s Ford escape lol. You can get sideways and not worry about tipping like most SUVs.
Given the weight similarities it’s even more of an Audi victory because of the difference in power
I understand the other drivers that you reference a professional or semi-professional drivers as well? However, the question "who is better in Audi VS BMW" most often bothers drivers with way less skill, yet they state that their brand of choice is always better, in everything. So it would be good to give somebody like that also do the test and see what is fastest, safest and altogether best for an average driver, like most of us. Like it's not that "my car beats your car" that is important in such holy wars, but whether "you in you car will beat yourself in other car" :D
We are all professional tire testers with over 10 years experience winter testing.
Can I suggest that you could include a much less powerful version of one of those cars to the comparison next time?
I mean something like a 2.0 NA car with comparable AWD system.
That would clearly show how much power is useful in that kind of conditions.
I bet the least powerful car wouldn't be slower at all on a short and slow lap like this.
Why sadly? Better is better.
these tires grip like crazy!!!
The new ones are even better!
what about 4matic+ vs quattro?
BMW for professionals and real men, Audi for housewives or househusbands 😉
lmao
No need to put people in buckets
that said, you can now buy a BMW for your "real" man.
@@lucianocalvett and you sell your Audi 😂
@@justinbecker4772 Why? This is my opinion, I don't impose it on anyone, but no one can change my opinion either 😉
Sorry, wrong statement at 6:45 because the Audi does hold the gears aswell when u drive in RS Mode and manual gear selection.
I couldn't get it to, just by turning everything off and putting it in manual.
@@tyrereviews You have to go into the drive select system and select RS mode and configure it so that the transmission is in sport mode. Then it won't automatically shift up when the rev limiter is reached. Believe me, I drive the car regularly ;-)
The dynamic mode alone is not enough to prevent upshifting, it has to be the RS mode. Awesome video btw..
@@BurkiBikes Thanks for letting me know! Shame it doesn't do it by default, but now I know for next time :)
@@tyrereviews no,its not a shame on the brand,its a shame on you being a reviewer or how do u wanna be called that u dont know this.
@@tyrereviews A good way to check whether it is fully manual is to look at the gear indication in the cockpit. If it says e.g. M1S in white letters, its NOT fully manual. If it is M1S in red letters, its fully manual. Even the newer S-Models like the S3 now have this feature, Audi is finally stepping up their game...
Anyway, you should test Rs4 Competition with this M4 competition, its another level up for RS4, they setuped this car and lowered the weight.
QUATTRO!!!
Hat jeden Test verloren
I think this video is not appropriate and not exactly telling the truth… You may say the BMW has the power advantage, but in this condition I don’t think it is… I think this Bmw has too much power for this race… Im sure You could make a better run with M340i . I think the only real and fair comparison is if you get both cars with similar power and weight
I'd be curious to see how they perform against a couple of working class cars, like a Mazda 3 AWD and a Panda Cross. :D
The Panda would be awesome!
The Audi Drucker us a dreamer in start
Before watching i'll say the BMW handles better, but the audi is more a more reliable style and has a more even distribution of power
You might be surprised
is this a "with fluids" and "without fluids" thing? I always felt Audis were heavier than equivalent BMW
Does not make sense for you to call in the starts, of course the other driver is not going to be able to react as quickly because you are off as you say go and he has to react to it. Get an independent person to call it in.
You didnt tested most important thing.
Start from uphill. That is where you can see what is better sistem.
Audi have torsen which is all time all wheel drive, Bmw have clutch based system which sent power to front when rear is slipping.
he did this before in an old x drive vs quattro video. every time they ran the uphill test, one car would just sit there bogging, the other would easily go up. after a re run, it would be the other way around. was just random
This isn't true, xDrive is a permanent AWD system else there would be no point in using a transfer case like it does.
The default torque split is 40/60 or 30/70, depending on model, and can send up to 50% to the front and up to 100% to the rear.
We did a hill test but there was so much grip from the tyres both cars flew up on their own, and it wasn't wide enough to run them side by side sadly.
No brake test?
It’d be interesting to compare a non-performance xDrive with Quattro with Ultra like a M340i bs an S4. Both disconnect the other axle during cruise using Magna’s FLEX4 so in reality they’re the almost the same AWD system.
ua-cam.com/video/Wu72tAG2IWQ/v-deo.html
QUATTRO NR.1
hat jeden test verloren
@renemann3382 du idiot?
Vorsprung durch Technik
ende der 90iger war das so. in dem Test hat der Audi leider jedes duell verloren
It's so disappointing how BMW lost the plot regarding steering. They used to have lovely steering, but since they switched to electric power steering, they've never recovered. Now Audi, which has historically been known for dead steering, is now doing better steering than BMW!
@Jon - you’ve been sat on this one for a while haven’t you? The date on the scales said 22 Feb 2024…
Great vid all the same 😎
Good spot :) That's how winter testing works, you generally don't do it until all the interest in snow and winter has already passed.
I think I'm ok losing snow drag races if I can be faster everywhere else and induce power oversteer on the road rather than understeer
@@maximus9401 Both cars are obviously fast enough in all conditions. So, for me it's a matter of overal driving and owning experience and personal preferences. Few tenths more or less rarely matter in the real life. My pick is BMW (not only M3 but generally), however, I respect anyone's individual choice.
The rs4 handles better than the m3. Just check out track battles. The audi understeer stereotype is just completely outdated and not true. Audis awd system takes corners better and despite audi having less power because of course bmw heavily understates power the audi still wins. Typical clueless bmw fangirl
@DudeThedudesky really? I recomend you to check the laptimes of the RS4 B9 vs BMW M3 Touring because you will have a big surprise... check the Zeperfs or fastestlaps websites and you will see that the RS4 is slower in every single track than the M3 Touring, in fact the M3 Touring is even faster than the RS6 Performance on track... the RS models don't have the huge understeer they are used to had in the past but they're not on the BMW league in terms of handling!
RS4 quattro has torque-vectoring and also a default of 60% power to the back... where do you expect understear coming from?
This old school-yard FWD vs RWD argument of BMW-fanboys is outdated for ... yea well since most of us still went to school.
@Brunoperes_88 a rs6 isn't meant to compete with a m3t? Also the website you shown only has bmw m3 touring COMP which is 20000 euros more than the rs4 that they have. A 1-2 second difference with a car that has about 100hp less and costs 20000 euros less. Good job man you just shot yourself in the leg. I also just checked rs5 vs bmw m4 competition xdrive with also 100hp more and costing about 20000 euros more it was only a 1-2 seconds on track difference. You really shot yourself in the leg ☠️ also bmw has struts in the front whilst audi uses multilink which is much much better and much more expensive to produce. Your just stupid and clueless about cars. I drove most the f and g series m cars and all rs cars so I know how they handle aswell.