Juan, I am well acquainted with the tragedy and grief of a plane crash. Sept 30, 1966 will always be with me. That was the day I lost my high school sweetheart and my good friend (pilot) in a Cessna 172 crash near Hempstead, TX. They had left Woodville in East Texas on that Friday evening headed to College Station and never made it. He became disoriented in a cold front passing through and flew the airplane upside down into the trees. I was a pall bearer to both funerals. It haunts me to this day. My heart goes out to the families of these folks. One just doesn't get over these things easily if at all. God bless.
I guess that instrument rating or not, spatial disorientation can get you in trouble very quickly. My late father (USAF pilot) once told me that you had to train yourself to lock onto the instruments immediately upon entering a cloud and that you had to believe what they were telling you. Sad story all around. Thanks for posting, Juan. Your opinion is what I look for in these instances.
localcrew Although I never achieved the IFR rating, I did a lot of “under the hood” work. All that work paid off when I got caught inside cloud due to gradually decreasing visibility. I trusted my instruments, and was able to land safely. Once, during my initial training, while under the hood, I was directed by my instructor to close my eyes tightly, “don’t cheat”, and “fly the plane”. I did, for over a minute. Everything felt and sounded good. When my instructor, Rick Brummer told me to open my eyes, I had the plane inverted. Best lesson ever for learning to not rely on your senses. Thank you Rick, wherever you are!
The toughest transfer from visual to instruments would be for it to happen on rotation and in a single pilot situation, the last thing he would look at would be the power settings.
On my second flying lesson I taped ping-pong ball to where a rear-view mirror would be in a car in order to help visually indicate up/down and inertial vectors. Not always 100% accurate but it helps me relate to the instruments and how the seat-of-the-pantsI'm convinced it helped improved my awareness and sensitivity.
@James A Don't be sorry, Mr. Criticize Everything/Troll, because - contrary to your assumption, my comment was about a 13-year-old's attempt to help demonstrate how inertia and gravity FELT in the seat of his pants while watching the instruments and the ball - NOT to suggest this method would work for anyone else. Sometimes a story is just a story - this one from a 13-year-old's perspective. @James A Try to read comments from the writer's perspective, rather than from yours and how YOU think it should have been written. These comments are addressed to the channel owner, and you are not responsible for judging everyone's comments because of some sense of moral superiority, or lacking that, the need to be acknowledged by people you will never deserve to know. Get a life and let us get on with ours.
Juan, thank you for your content. I have been out of flying for several decades and as a rusty pilot, just getting back into it, I can see that my initial training left much to be desired. The future of safe general aviation is greatly served by what you and several others are doing.
It always feels a little uncomfortable like to an upload with such tragic content. Juan's thoughtful and respectful delivery makes that a whole lot easier though. Thank you Juan.
Hi Juan, my day is never complete without seeing your face! Your description reminded me of an Aftermath episode when an experienced pilot suffered a heart attack while in rotation. He keeled over onto the stick, forcing it to the left, and the aircraft began a short left-hand corkscrew into the ground - barely a 90-degree turn very similar to this incident's flight path.
With Juans reporting style it's often the pauses or what's not said that is just as informative as what is spoken. It's about time the FAA / NTSB hired him as a public relations interface. His communication skills and empathy are beyond question.
Excellent Report as usual Juan. Back in the 80's I has a little left and right seat time in a Cheyenne II, and I also had a friend at the FAA who worked on what I seem to recall was recertification of the Cheyenne and the PSS system, after crashes involving the PSS system. I also seem to recall that in addition to the aft CG/Control force issue the Cheyenne also had high-power pitch instability issue and the PSS system was required to meet certification in takeoff and climb regimes. Aviation Consumer Magazine had an excellent report back in the 80's explaining the details. I'll see if I can dig it up.
@@raybankes7668 SAS or 'Stability Augmentation System' is what Piper's pitch stability system appears to be referred to as, but I seem to recall back in the 80's being referred to as 'PSS' or 'Pitch Stability System'. I'm not sure what Piper actually called it at the inception but I recall at times it gave the aircraft a funky pitch feel, and why I have reservations about "augmented" Pitch Control Systems in general. The Cheyenne II was a bit of a hotrod but far from my favorite airplane for a lot more reasons than the SAS/PSS system. A Turbo Commander or an C90 KingAir were much preferable options in my opinion. I just found a couple of articles, one from Aviation Consumer back in 2001, and while not as in depth as the one I recall in the late 80's or early 90's it looks like reasonable summary for anyone interested . Piper PA-31T Cheyenne - Aviation Consumer www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/piper-pa-31t-cheyenne/ Mar 8, 2001 - These are the PA-31T series, or Cheyenne/II, Cheyenne I/IA and Cheyenne ... necessary were it not for the Cheyennes poor static longitudinal stability. .... The Piper PA-31T stability augmentation system (SAS) adds variable ... Jun 6, 2005 - IIRC the Cheyenne II is the plane with the often cursed "stability augmentation system". ... The problem is that there is enough lag in the system that it can easily get behind the airplane and start putting pitch corrections in that ...
Thank you for covering this. I pulled N42CV out of the hangar that morning. Great job covering this story using just the facts. I hate seeing speculation about what happened.
Sad that there are lots of crashes lately keeping you very busy. I really appreciate your scientific approach. Despite it being almost completely undetectable( and rightfully so) I think that you are quite moved by the recent continual tragic loss of life. It's very difficult work but your solid factual reporting will save many lives. Prayers for you and your family that you will be protected from despair and all anxiety.
Thank You Juan. I love how you never blame your pilot brothers and sisters and always explain different possible causes. God be with the passengers and pilot and their families. Again, I hope 2020 will be a better year for the aviation industry. Happy New Year to you Jenny and the kiddos.
Driving in the Central Valley of California during fog season give us grounded people an idea how bad spatial disorientation can be. We have lines on the road to look at. Thanks for the update background as usual. Have a happy New Year God bless
Thanks for that update Juan I was one of one asking about this event, hope your family have a great New Years Celibration see you in the New Year from NZ.
I've flown into Lafayette scores of times and have a few stories of my own there. Bias question: is there a history of the Cheyenne II having issues with the 'SAS'? Bias remark: 3/4 mile, 200' ceiling, busy cockpit, cramped cabin, rowdy LSU fans, early in the morning ... loss of situational awareness.
This has all the classic telltales of SD. Left bank, full power descent and then a last second sighting of the horizon as he broke through but too late to arrest it. Early in my flying I experienced this but luckily I had much more altitude and had an instructor in the right seat who purposely shook me up. After that I always get into the habit of checking both clusters upon entering or just prior to in order to reassure my brain that my instruments are good no matter what my inner ear is trying to tell me. RIP to all
I am an eye witness to the crash, was outside getting something from my van and heard a plane that sounded a little odd or out of place so I stood and looked up for it, I been there for 10 years, also a former pilot and A&P, I'm used to the normal traffic pattern there so I knew something was odd. The plane sounded normal but a little low then it sounded like he went full throttle and put it into a dive right for me, getting louder and faster then it was screaming, (reminded me of the sound effects in the old WWII movies of dive bombers), I've been to air shows but never seen or heard one dive at full power, they always throttle back, so this sound was weird to me and frightening. It popped out of the clouds in a diving steep left turn then immediately went wings level but by time he was wings level he was a split second from impact so fast it was probably exceeding NE speed. I heard the horrible crunching impact and felt the ground shake then the explosion, it looked like a volcano went off, the fire ball was so big I felt the heat from it then the blood curdling scream from the lady that was on fire running from her car. The plane ripped through the power lines and tree only feet away from the apartment building, if he didn't level his wings it would've crashed into the building.
I used to be a deputy sheriff and specialized in DUI detection. I noticed that drunks driving up hills would veer left crossing the centerline giving me the probable cause to stop the driver for further investigations. I'm not suggesting the pilot was drinking, not at all. I'm noting the similarity of the disorientation and turning left when accending from the spatial point of view. With the low ceilings and low visibility I'm thining he started a left turn because he was not focused on his attitude indicator at a critical time. This is clearly a sad event. Thanks for the report Juan.
Thank you Juan, this is another very tragic accident. Wishing you and your family the best for 2020, look forward to more videos of your flights and trail rides with young Pete!
Thanks, Juan, for the concise explanation of where the investigation will be going and the difficulty having no flight recorders. These aircraft are complex and pilots need to understand what is occurring in minutes or seconds. I appreciate your fine efforts. - Dean from Minnesota
THX for the straight forward reporting that even lay persons can understand. Happy New Year to you and your beautiful family. Here's hoping your 'work load' decreases rapidly!
Thanks for looking in to this. This really hits close to home. This crash included the second well known New Orleans TV journalist that has died in a small plane crash since August 19, 2019. Very saddening.
Have you reviewed the NTSB preliminary report that came out a couple days ago? I'm connected to this tragedy in multiple ways but don't know enough about aviation to fully understand the report and what it implies. Would really appreciate a follow up from you.
I'm not saying disorientation was the cause just trying to explain it. I never really got disoriented if I kept my eyes glued to the instruments. Worst thing you can do is to look outside into the white nothing or at night the black nothing. Then the feelings you are turning are very convincing. Your mind is convinced 100% you are turning. It's not like "I think I'm turning" No. Your mind is 100% convinced you are turning. And once you "correct" for this "turn" you end up out of control. People who don't experience it can't really understand how powerful that turning sensation is.
Thanks for the report and background history. When will you get your release to fly again? Has to be tough on you not piloting for so long after flying so many years. Hope you are getting up with others that are current to stay in practice.
Sad to hear of another accident, but watching your video's is a blessing in that, well it's kinda like ground school for dummies, I took some lessons when I was young and have always loved planes and their use, but now through your channel and some others, after 50 years since any flight training, I am starting to understand so much more than I ever did before, thanks Juan
Vice Chairman Landsberg later corrected his “quarter mile” estimation, and said the debris path was actually about 700 feet long. (I don’t mean to pick anything apart, as it’s not so important to a layperson like myself, I realize such measurements can be very important to the investigation itself.)
Mainstream media is fake news for sure, but not this dedicated site for these events. www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/12/piper-pa-31t-cheyenne-ii-n42cv-fatal.html
Thanks for the detailed information as always, plus the links in the description - great as always. Such a sad situation, as they all are. Praying for a better 2020 in this regard. Thanks for all you do, Juan. Been an extremely informative, and fun year here on your channel. It exploded this year! Congrats on that! You and the family have a Happy, Healthy, Prosperous, and Safe New Year. We'll see ya here in 2020! Blue skies, tailwinds, and zero turbulence! 🍻
commercial ticket is known but endorsements are not ? I understand very early. Left engine shutdown ? I know way to early. You do a 1st class report . From a very old way pre NTSB accident investigator, Many thanks
Is it me or are we experiencing a lot of GA incidents lately? May everyone rest peacefully is always sad to hear this. It has always been my nightmare to have my family in flight with me and have a catastrophic incident. As always great job on the video may you have a healthy 2020.
They are just being covered more than before,a lot of pilots feel like there's a hidden agenda in the works because small ga airports have been under attack for some time now.
Many smaller airports were established not too far out of town to make them convenient. Now, town has crept close to or even around them and the real estate developers want to plant houses there instead of grass. The town want that too because a lot of people in houses pay higher taxes than a few people with airplanes.
@@ricklynch8620 small GA airports have been under attack for some time now and like the other guy said a lot of the pressure comes from developers and the people that move near them. Lately it feels like the media is trying to portray general aviation as a danger to society and I feel it's just a matter of time before they try to enact more regulations in the name of public safety. I never understood how someone can move near an airport and then complain about the noise. I have to deal with it at my local feild and have had problems with my private strip where I fly my Maule out of. I have always been respectful of my neighbors and followed a self imposed curfew but recently had a complaint from a new neighbor after leaving early one morning. They called the police and claimed that I buzzed their house and we're in fear for their safety. It's total BS and they've taken it upon themselves to make me out to be a a drug dealing rebel because I'm able to afford an airplane that costs less than their Mercedes. But be because I appear to "not work" own a airplane and don't conform to the typical corporate slave I must be bad. Because of their complaints and their relation to the the police I've been pulled over and harassed several times and after several times I had to explain to the police that I fly commercially for a aerial tanker service risking my life to fight fires and that they should be greatful for what I do. The officers response was how I should've just told him that in the beginning and not wasted police resources by being evasive about what I do for a living to be able to afford an airplane. Seriously how do people feel they have the right to move near an airport that they drive past daily and then complain about the noise it creates? Also I don't know what it is but general aviation has been getting a bad reputation and it's only a matter of time before they enact more regulations in the name of public safety. Anyway I need to pack my bags and head off to Australia where folks truly appreciate what we do fighting bush fires.
When an incident like this occurs I look forward to your insight. I was not aware of some of the quirks of the Cheyenne IIT which may have contributed to this accident. RIP to all the victims and prayers too their families. Thanks again Juan.
Juan! THANKS!! For always taking time to inform and teach us all about aviation.no one does it better .I've learned tons of cool stuff from your videos.wish you and your family a very Happy New Year!I also pray for your health and fast recovery so you get your medical certification back soon! God bless!
I didn't know of so many accidents this year until I subbed this channel. A few were obviously reported on national news. If you want to know the details as correct as possible this is the channel to subscribe. Thank you Juan. So sad another loss of lives.
When you haul a family to Disney Land and you whip out the bathroom scales to weigh them before boarding, some of the heavier ones do not want their weight revealed. They just don't understand.
@@raybankes7668 I remember when there was a set of scales at the foot of the steps into DC-3 airliners and the co-pilot standing there writing them down. Then he would occasionally move the big ones into seats near the front. Even then, the pilot would have to use both hands pushing forward on the wheel to get the tail off the ground on takeoff.
Jim Foreman It was a laughing emoji, because your comment was hilarious and informative. If that happened today somebody would cry about weight discrimination. Haha
I had a long comment ready to post and I pulled the plug on it for the simple reason, none of you or I know what happened and until the primary report and then the final report, then we might have or might not know for sure as one can be in this matter. I have spent 44 years as a Professional Pilot, all of it in Single Pilot Operations- The hardest lesson I had to learn was to say "No". I learned to say no, and I have over the years lost jobs too. Then again I never dinged an Aircraft or killed anybody that rode in the aircraft I was flying. Sad day for the families involved.
Years ago I was on a commercial turboprop from Denver to Rock springs Wyoming and I wished the pilot has said no.. all eight passengers were puking except me but I was scared. Then the pilot had to make a couple of low passes to run the prairie dogs off of the runway and I knew for sure I was going to die.. flying in big commercial Jets is a lot less nerve-racking to me.. you can bet one thing that is if a pilot ever says no I am all for it..
Great report as always, Juan. I do like your straightforward, just-the-facts style. No hype. Having said that, we do "know" a few things about this crash. Surely the pilot was aware of the ceiling and vis even before taxiing out. Regardless of which FAR part he operated under, he still would've needed an IFR flight plan to depart. With only 1/4 mile vis, he wouldn't be able to see the far end of the 8,000' runway. So it's not like the weather took him by surprise. He knew that he was going to be IMC as soon as he rotated. We can *hope* that he had the cockpit (including the pitch trim) set up properly prior to commencing the takeoff run. Such a takeoff would have been challenging, yes, but should not have been a problem for a current Instrument Rated pilot in his own airplane. Finally, it was only 450 miles from LFT to Atlanta, and his passenger load was light (three males, two females, a teenage boy and probably not a whole lot of baggage) - we can make an educated guess that he wasn't super-duper heavy and that the gross weight and c.g. were *probably* not an issue. I'd bet that at least one of the pax were in the copilot seat. With it narrowed down even slightly...so...what happened? Ahh, that's where the NTSB comes in. Hopefully they'll be able to tell us eventually. Accidents like this one are always tragic. Sometimes we never figure out *exactly* what caused them. Let's hope we can this time.
Thank you. This is very informative. I have been trying to figure this thing out also. I have 2 cousins that went to college with Carley McCord and were good friends. Such a sad situation. I will wait on NTSB's final report over the next several months.
RIP to allí they died. So sad, especially during the latter part of the holidays. Let's hope we'll learn some answers in due time. There are still quite a few Cheyenne I and II out there flown by competent pilot. Great initial report. You're great.
Another informative and knowledgeable report. I have experienced vertigo on a perfectly clear VFR night. Recognized it and then “trusted “ my instruments.
When Pilots do their pre-flight calculations for take-off weight and fuel etc etc, are they using actual data of "passengers" on board or some mean value specified by the FAA? Since Americans are generally considered "obese" I think you understand what prompts my question. As you talked about this model aircraft being particularly sensitive to rear CG it gives me even more rise to this aspect. Thanks for all you do Juan. Jim.
Actual weights are a requirement in the FAA regs with exceptions. 121 ops use the average pax weights for summer/winter ops. Freight is actual weight. Sports teams= actual weights since not many ball players weigh the average weight of 200 lbs (including bags) in summer ops calculations. It probably has changes since I retired from the airlines 16 years ago. A 380 lb boss in a King Air 350 would never sit where I needed him to so keeping the wing lockers full with bags and nothing in the aft cargo hold was required for wt/balance calcs with others on board.
Under 91 its rare for an actual wt & balance calculation to be performed. But to answer the question, no, they don't have authorization to use average weights.
@@skyboy1956 "Under 91 not everyone checks wt and balance." Given that the owner/operator has done several calculations during ownership, it does not take that long to do a W&B. An A-36 Bonanza has six seats, so no problem, right? Until you see the pilot step onto the airstep and the Bone goes onto it's tail. Loud enough for the entire ramp to hear it. Asking ladies their actual weight requires finess. Or a good guess. When a nose tire skips across the tarmac during taxi as you hold full down elevator, and skids when you turn for your runup, you might be out of CG limits. DOH!!
To do all that, they would miss the game...now if a tailgating 10 gal pot of gumbo was too far aft...pull out the calculator. Besides no one looked too heavy.
Sad story. Thanks for your report. I've noticed seems fairly common for accidents like this to happen when an aircraft is loaded to or close to the max. Just b/c the specs say it's ok doesn't mean it's a good idea, like if their CG was thrown off that might have contributed to it. Sorry for this loss. Happy New Year to you and yours. Hope the best for 2020. RIP.
Juan, have you been able to digest the Atlas Air 3591 interm report yet? It doesn't paint a pretty picture and I'm curious what you take is on it, given your 767 experience.
I believe that Lafayette is a class charlie, so they must have been handed off from the tower to departure. Wonder if that happened and if there was any info there? Did the low altitude warning come from the tower or approach/departure control? Nice coverage and very informative. Thanks.
Hi Juan. I did a check and the Piper has a history of left engine failure. I wanted to contact you earlier, but I had no information other than this plane has had a history of left engine failure leading to crashes. So, before I finished watching you, your information about a witness seeing a steep left bank, told me the novice, of course, the Pilot experienced a left engine fail and after steeply banking, corrected the plane and attempted to put the plane down. However, as you said the were encounters with trees and power lines so we don't know how much damage was done to control surfaces. What is a little unusual is the speed the plane hit at. Naturally, not being a pilot, if your flying on one engine and you need to keep in the air and oriented, you might have to increase the power on the remaining engine and thus becoming fast when approaching the landing, in a field. Unfortunate, the landing was too difficult to complete. Early video showed a wide area of debris field and my understanding and what I saw was some part of the plane burning heavily against a building. I found the following based on your information today. Critical engine When one of the engines on a typical multi-engine aircraft becomes inoperative, a thrust imbalance exists between the operative and inoperative sides of the aircraft. This thrust imbalance causes several negative effects in addition to the loss of one engine's thrust. When one engine fails, a yawing moment develops, which applies a rotational force to the aircraft that tends to turn it toward the wing that carries the engine that failed. A rolling moment might develop, due to the asymmetry of the lift in each wing, with a greater lift generated by the wing with the operating engine. The yawing and rolling moments apply rotational forces that tend to yaw and roll the aircraft towards the failed engine. This tendency is counteracted by the pilot's use of the flight controls, which include the rudder and ailerons. Due to P-factor, a clockwise rotating right-hand propeller on the right wing typically develops its resultant thrust vector at a greater lateral distance from the aircraft's center of gravity than the clockwise rotating left-hand propeller (Figure 1). The failure of the left-hand engine will result in a larger yawing moment by the operating right-hand engine, rather than vice versa. Since the operating right-hand engine produces a larger yawing moment, the pilot will need to use larger deflections of the flight controls or a higher speed in order to maintain control of the aircraft. Thus, the failure of the left-hand engine has a greater impact than failure of the right-hand engine, and the left-hand engine is called the critical engine. On aircraft with propellers that rotate counter-clockwise, such as the de Havilland Dove, the right engine would be the critical engine. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_engine So, Juan, I don't know if they will be able to come to any conclusion on this case. It is so unusual, that too many times no mayday call is made. But based on the above factor I can imagine a sensory overload combined with a critical effort to get as much control of the plane as possible. One young woman aboard, who knew what was going to happen, texted her husband she loved him before impact, yet the pilot had no comms to indicate a dire emergency. There were 5 persons on the plane plus the pilot, if I am correct, and my first thought was weight, as soon as I heard the number of people. So, as I write my thoughts are increased weight leading to increased load on the left engine leading to its failure. I googled "Piper plane accidents"". Please excuse this it feels a little inappropriate under the circumstances, however, please have a Happy New Years.
Great Summary into this accident account! I can appreciate your description of aero spacial disorientation. As you stated it's like having you head inside of a pingpong ball. Great Job Sir! Keep up the Great Work.
Thank you Juan Brown, to sad there has to be so much of this type of reporting. My deepest condolences go out to the friends and families of these people. I hope 2020 is a happy, healthy year for everyone at Blancolirio World Headquarters.
Normally I wouldn't comment because as you correctly say we don't know enough and we are just speculating but I would like your expert opinion on the possibility that in this case the vaccum instruments were possibly either not working or inaccurate. It seems the aircraft was "corrected" a bit after it descended back to visual.
Just speculating .... but at 5:08 Juan states that the pilot was in an "extremely high workload environment" . This plane was full of happy and exciting people going to the LSU football playoff game. With all the people taking away, this could be a big distraction to the pilot in a very critical situation. What happened in the cabin will not be known unless the adult male, who was burnt down one side of his body, is able to relate what happened leading up to the crash. Of the 3 people on the ground that were injured, one was in a car that the plane hit and the other two were in a building that was hit and suffered smoke inhalation.
ziggy 2shus even if your speculation turns out to be irrelevant to this particular crash (pilot might have enforced a sterile cockpit during takeoff and climb, we don’t know yet) you make an excellent point, that a plane full of happy, chatty (non-pilot) people can easily be a source of unacceptable distraction during critical phases of flight. A good reminder to all pilots of the importance of minimizing and managing distractions! My personal anecdote on this is that the only crash I’ve ever had was when I was in an “extremely high workload environment” and had 5 passengers chatting with me, distracting me at a critical moment. Fortunately I was driving a car at the time, not flying, so the consequence was bent sheet metal, no injuries (high workload was driving a rental car in St. Thomas, where they drive American (left-hand drive) cars on the *left* side of the road, and I was making a right turn onto a multi lane road). That accident taught me that even things that feel routine like driving a car can in fact be much more mentally demanding than we appreciate.
I know you may have already reported on this but here is the NTSB Probable Cause. Interestingly, this aircraft nearly hit my daughter's apartment in Lafayette. It hit the power line that feed the complex before crashing into the post office parking lot. Very sad. NTSB PC N42CV Piper PA 31T Findings Personnel issues Aircraft control - Pilot Personnel issues Spatial disorientation - Pilot Environmental issues Low visibility - Effect on personnel Probable Cause The pilot’s loss of airplane control due to spatial disorientation during the initial climb in instrument meteorological conditions.
Juan, this is another in a disturbingly long list of GA aircraft that have crashed in the last few months. For this crash, as well as the South Dakota Pilatus, the Dale Earnhardt, and the B-17 crash, there were surviving passengers. However, I have not heard any interviews or even articles about these folks, even though they would all have fascinating stories to tell. Do you know if any of these survivors have been interviewed (by other than NTSB, of course)? Do you think their lawyers are telling them to button up?
Hello Juan. With so many crashes in the news... for instance I live outside of Philadelphia, and we lost two doctors in a Bonanza and a couple guys in a Baron in the same time period, and it makes me wonder why people don't engage the autopilot. I'm forced to wonder if that kind of spatial disorientation happened in this case, and why he didn't reach up and engage that autopilot. I used to tell my instrument students if at any time they became disoriented or got a bad case of the "leans," to engage that autopilot button and look at the attitude indicator....and extend it mentally in either direction as a visual cue to help get them reoriented.
Is an enunciation light lit on the Cheyenne 2 when the SAS is disabled? The NTSB noted the enunciation panel was somewhat intact. Perhaps the lights can be analysed to determine which lights were lit?
Great breakdown once again. Lots to consider here. As a frequent passenger in smaller aircraft when I was working (retired), many pilots I flew with, insisted on privacy while in preflight and passenger silence until reaching a predetermined flight level. Obviously this allowed the pilot to concentrate on his environment and duties required to attain flight level and speed. I always respected and felt comfortable with those individuals.
Juan, not sure if anybody else pointed out that the aircraft had made an approximate 270deg turn at the time of impact. It was flying on an approximate heading of 330 deg in level flight when it impacted the power line and then the ground.
In regard to altitude...the plane had reached 900 feet before making the left-hand turn...Would 900 feet been a “normal” altitude the plane should have reached at that point? As a non-pilot, I was curious if that indicates the plane was climbing accordingly or the aircraft should have been higher and may have been struggling to reach 900? Thanks for any insight.
Why the left turn shortly after departure. Was it at the direction of ATC or part of a Standard Instrument Departure? Was the Pilot instrument rated, and was he current? My first inclination was that they may have had a left engine failure shortly after entering IMC, but if observer reports are correct that both engines were screaming that may not be the case. Non-aviation related eye witnesses reports are not always accurate. They will be able to tell from the props and the engines if they were producing power at impact. Update: According to the second NTSB briefing the aircraft initially was on an assigned 240 degree heading. They indicated that they did have an aviation related witness, but also cautioned on relying on witness reports. The Pilot had approximately 1500 hours of experience.
@@shademe Hi Lauren, was not trying to be rude. The reports only indicated that the Pilot had a commercial Pilot's license. Sure hope he had an instrument ticket. To me the left turn would be significant if he was not directed by ATC or procedure. The speed trace showed the aircraft at 183kts which was pretty fast as he had not reached 1000', so I doubt that the SAS system would have come into play.
Ok, thanks for your clarification. Seem like you also have done some homework and I apologize if I came across as rude. Happy New year to you and everyone!
like juggling, the more eggs in motion, the more chances that one/all can be dropped, getting away with it depends on where you're at in the program. ping pong ball is dead on, drifted into a few in freefall and under canopy, bad, bad things can be found in clouds. Happy New Year, Mr. Brown to you and yours!
Juan, I am well acquainted with the tragedy and grief of a plane crash. Sept 30, 1966 will always be with me. That was the day I lost my high school sweetheart and my good friend (pilot) in a Cessna 172 crash near Hempstead, TX. They had left Woodville in East Texas on that Friday evening headed to College Station and never made it. He became disoriented in a cold front passing through and flew the airplane upside down into the trees. I was a pall bearer to both funerals. It haunts me to this day. My heart goes out to the families of these folks. One just doesn't get over these things easily if at all. God bless.
I guess that instrument rating or not, spatial disorientation can get you in trouble very quickly. My late father (USAF pilot) once told me that you had to train yourself to lock onto the instruments immediately upon entering a cloud and that you had to believe what they were telling you. Sad story all around.
Thanks for posting, Juan. Your opinion is what I look for in these instances.
IMC=IFR = ADI. Trust your Instruments!
localcrew Although I never achieved the IFR rating, I did a lot of “under the hood” work. All that work paid off when I got caught inside cloud due to gradually decreasing visibility. I trusted my instruments, and was able to land safely.
Once, during my initial training, while under the hood, I was directed by my instructor to close my eyes tightly, “don’t cheat”, and “fly the plane”. I did, for over a minute. Everything felt and sounded good. When my instructor, Rick Brummer told me to open my eyes, I had the plane inverted. Best lesson ever for learning to not rely on your senses. Thank you Rick, wherever you are!
The toughest transfer from visual to instruments would be for it to happen on rotation and in a single pilot situation, the last thing he would look at would be the power settings.
On my second flying lesson I taped ping-pong ball to where a rear-view mirror would be in a car in order to help visually indicate up/down and inertial vectors. Not always 100% accurate but it helps me relate to the instruments and how the seat-of-the-pantsI'm convinced it helped improved my awareness and sensitivity.
@James A Don't be sorry, Mr. Criticize Everything/Troll, because - contrary to your assumption, my comment was about a 13-year-old's attempt to help demonstrate how inertia and gravity FELT in the seat of his pants while watching the instruments and the ball - NOT to suggest this method would work for anyone else. Sometimes a story is just a story - this one from a 13-year-old's perspective.
@James A Try to read comments from the writer's perspective, rather than from yours and how YOU think it should have been written. These comments are addressed to the channel owner, and you are not responsible for judging everyone's comments because of some sense of moral superiority, or lacking that, the need to be acknowledged by people you will never deserve to know. Get a life and let us get on with ours.
These reports are so much more valuable than anything on mainstream media where they speculate but don’t give much insight. Thanks Juan!
Juan, thank you for your content. I have been out of flying for several decades and as a rusty pilot, just getting back into it, I can see that my initial training left much to be desired. The future of safe general aviation is greatly served by what you and several others are doing.
It always feels a little uncomfortable like to an upload with such tragic content. Juan's thoughtful and respectful delivery makes that a whole lot easier though.
Thank you Juan.
I totally agree with your statement. I always head STRAIGHT to Juan's channel to get information. He's the BEST!
Hi Juan, my day is never complete without seeing your face!
Your description reminded me of an Aftermath episode when an experienced pilot suffered a heart attack while in rotation. He keeled over onto the stick, forcing it to the left, and the aircraft began a short left-hand corkscrew into the ground - barely a 90-degree turn very similar to this incident's flight path.
A prosperous and healthy New Year....... Thank you, Juan.
Thanks for giving background about a crash where we have so little factual information.
Professional, respectful and informative report, as always.
I mirror David Poulin's comment.
Well said. I agree.
With Juans reporting style it's often the pauses or what's not said that is just as informative as what is spoken. It's about time the FAA / NTSB hired him as a public relations interface. His communication skills and empathy are beyond question.
@@rayg9069 Totally agree.
Thank you Juan for the hard work. God bless their souls. Let's hope those who were injured get better soon.
Excellent Report as usual Juan. Back in the 80's I has a little left and right seat time in a Cheyenne II, and I also had a friend at the FAA who worked on what I seem to recall was recertification of the Cheyenne and the PSS system, after crashes involving the PSS system.
I also seem to recall that in addition to the aft CG/Control force issue the Cheyenne also had high-power pitch instability issue and the PSS system was required to meet certification in takeoff and climb regimes. Aviation Consumer Magazine had an excellent report back in the 80's explaining the details. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Jack O'Neil
Very interesting, just what this aircraft was doing. Durn it.
SAS system? what is PSS system. are they the same.
Juan spoke of SAS
@@raybankes7668 SAS or 'Stability Augmentation System' is what Piper's pitch stability system appears to be referred to as, but I seem to recall back in the 80's being referred to as 'PSS' or 'Pitch Stability System'. I'm not sure what Piper actually called it at the inception but I recall at times it gave the aircraft a funky pitch feel, and why I have reservations about "augmented" Pitch Control Systems in general.
The Cheyenne II was a bit of a hotrod but far from my favorite airplane for a lot more reasons than the SAS/PSS system. A Turbo Commander or an C90 KingAir were much preferable options in my opinion.
I just found a couple of articles, one from Aviation Consumer back in 2001, and while not as in depth as the one I recall in the late 80's or early 90's it looks like reasonable summary for anyone interested .
Piper PA-31T Cheyenne - Aviation Consumer
www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/piper-pa-31t-cheyenne/
Mar 8, 2001 - These are the PA-31T series, or Cheyenne/II, Cheyenne I/IA and Cheyenne ... necessary were it not for the Cheyennes poor static longitudinal stability. .... The Piper PA-31T stability augmentation system (SAS) adds variable ...
Jun 6, 2005 - IIRC the Cheyenne II is the plane with the often cursed "stability augmentation system". ... The problem is that there is enough lag in the system that it can easily get behind the airplane and start putting pitch corrections in that ...
Thank you for covering this. I pulled N42CV out of the hangar that morning. Great job covering this story using just the facts. I hate seeing speculation about what happened.
H Martin Did they leave from New Orleans prior to departing Lafayette?
DAM8658 No they didn’t, the plane’s last flight was on 12/18 coming back from West Houston.
H Martin Oh okay, considering that the young girl was with WDSU, I figured the plane left Lakefront first.
phillip perkins Stop driving your car sir. Your car will surely claim your life someday.
phillip perkins Me? I’m not a pilot yet.
Juan, thanks for this update. Lets hope the survivor makes it and can shed some light on what happened? Where people were sitting? etc.
I’m surprised we haven’t heard anything about this accident yet.
Sad that there are lots of crashes lately keeping you very busy. I really appreciate your scientific approach. Despite it being almost completely undetectable( and rightfully so) I think that you are quite moved by the recent continual tragic loss of life. It's very difficult work but your solid factual reporting will save many lives.
Prayers for you and your family that you will be protected from despair and all anxiety.
Thank You Juan. I love how you never blame your pilot brothers and sisters and always explain different possible causes. God be with the passengers and pilot and their families. Again, I hope 2020 will be a better year for the aviation industry. Happy New Year to you Jenny and the kiddos.
Driving in the Central Valley of California during fog season give us grounded people an idea how bad spatial disorientation can be. We have lines on the road to look at. Thanks for the update background as usual. Have a happy New Year God bless
I was waiting for this video. Very sad incident Juan.
Thanks for that update Juan I was one of one asking about this event, hope your family have a great New Years Celibration see you in the New Year from NZ.
I've flown into Lafayette scores of times and have a few stories of my own there. Bias question: is there a history of the Cheyenne II having issues with the 'SAS'? Bias remark: 3/4 mile, 200' ceiling, busy cockpit, cramped cabin, rowdy LSU fans, early in the morning ... loss of situational awareness.
thanks!! Juan for the update. Our prayers and thoughts for the people who lost their lives in this accident.
thank You again JB! You are like family to many of us who don't even know you but trust always. the Best this coming year to and your family!
This has all the classic telltales of SD. Left bank, full power descent and then a last second sighting of the horizon as he broke through but too late to arrest it. Early in my flying I experienced this but luckily I had much more altitude and had an instructor in the right seat who purposely shook me up. After that I always get into the habit of checking both clusters upon entering or just prior to in order to reassure my brain that my instruments are good no matter what my inner ear is trying to tell me. RIP to all
Good point...couple that with a possible aft CG issue and the problem gets even more pronounced on take-off.
I am an eye witness to the crash, was outside getting something from my van and heard a plane that sounded a little odd or out of place so I stood and looked up for it, I been there for 10 years, also a former pilot and A&P, I'm used to the normal traffic pattern there so I knew something was odd. The plane sounded normal but a little low then it sounded like he went full throttle and put it into a dive right for me, getting louder and faster then it was screaming, (reminded me of the sound effects in the old WWII movies of dive bombers), I've been to air shows but never seen or heard one dive at full power, they always throttle back, so this sound was weird to me and frightening. It popped out of the clouds in a diving steep left turn then immediately went wings level but by time he was wings level he was a split second from impact so fast it was probably exceeding NE speed. I heard the horrible crunching impact and felt the ground shake then the explosion, it looked like a volcano went off, the fire ball was so big I felt the heat from it then the blood curdling scream from the lady that was on fire running from her car. The plane ripped through the power lines and tree only feet away from the apartment building, if he didn't level his wings it would've crashed into the building.
I used to be a deputy sheriff and specialized in DUI detection. I noticed that drunks driving up hills would veer left crossing the centerline giving me the probable cause to stop the driver for further investigations. I'm not suggesting the pilot was drinking, not at all. I'm noting the similarity of the disorientation and turning left when accending from the spatial point of view. With the low ceilings and low visibility I'm thining he started a left turn because he was not focused on his attitude indicator at a critical time. This is clearly a sad event. Thanks for the report Juan.
Thank you Juan, this is another very tragic accident. Wishing you and your family the best for 2020, look forward to more videos of your flights and trail rides with young Pete!
Thanks, Juan, for the concise explanation of where the investigation will be going and the difficulty having no flight recorders. These aircraft are complex and pilots need to understand what is occurring in minutes or seconds. I appreciate your fine efforts. - Dean from Minnesota
THX for the straight forward reporting that even lay persons can understand. Happy New Year to you and your beautiful family. Here's hoping your 'work load' decreases rapidly!
Yes!
Happy new year Juan keep up the good informative videos 👍👍
Thanks for looking in to this. This really hits close to home. This crash included the second well known New Orleans TV journalist that has died in a small plane crash since August 19, 2019. Very saddening.
Have you reviewed the NTSB preliminary report that came out a couple days ago? I'm connected to this tragedy in multiple ways but don't know enough about aviation to fully understand the report and what it implies. Would really appreciate a follow up from you.
As always, qualified, highly informative, and judicious. Citizen journalism at it's best.
Thanks for your professional assessment of this tragic event.
Thank you for the insights into the NTSB's forensic approach to this accident. I hadn't heard of the "four corners" technique before now.
Thank You Juan.
Peace to All Family & Friends Involved.
I'm not saying disorientation was the cause just trying to explain it. I never really got disoriented if I kept my eyes glued to the instruments. Worst thing you can do is to look outside into the white nothing or at night the black nothing. Then the feelings you are turning are very convincing. Your mind is convinced 100% you are turning. It's not like "I think I'm turning" No. Your mind is 100% convinced you are turning. And once you "correct" for this "turn" you end up out of control. People who don't experience it can't really understand how powerful that turning sensation is.
Thanks for the report and background history. When will you get your release to fly again? Has to be tough on you not piloting for so long after flying so many years. Hope you are getting up with others that are current to stay in practice.
Juan, love your stuff, Keep it up!
Sad to hear of another accident, but watching your video's is a blessing in that, well it's kinda like ground school for dummies, I took some lessons when I was young and have always loved planes and their use, but now through your channel and some others, after 50 years since any flight training, I am starting to understand so much more than I ever did before, thanks Juan
So well explained as usual. Thanks, happy new year and best of health.
Vice Chairman Landsberg later corrected his “quarter mile” estimation, and said the debris path was actually about 700 feet long.
(I don’t mean to pick anything apart, as it’s not so important to a layperson like myself, I realize such measurements can be very important to the investigation itself.)
correct.
Excellent report as usual Mr Brown. Best of luck in the new year.
The best coverage the best information. Need to stay away from the media.
Mainstream media is fake news for sure, but not this dedicated site for these events. www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/12/piper-pa-31t-cheyenne-ii-n42cv-fatal.html
Thanks for the detailed information as always, plus the links in the description - great as always. Such a sad situation, as they all are. Praying for a better 2020 in this regard.
Thanks for all you do, Juan. Been an extremely informative, and fun year here on your channel. It exploded this year! Congrats on that! You and the family have a Happy, Healthy, Prosperous, and Safe New Year. We'll see ya here in 2020! Blue skies, tailwinds, and zero turbulence! 🍻
commercial ticket is known but endorsements are not ? I understand very early. Left engine shutdown ? I know way to early. You do a 1st class report . From a very old way pre NTSB accident investigator, Many thanks
Thanks for the update Juan and happy New Year to you and your family and God bless you.
It's a tough gig, but you do it well. Thanks JB.
Is it me or are we experiencing a lot of GA incidents lately? May everyone rest peacefully is always sad to hear this. It has always been my nightmare to have my family in flight with me and have a catastrophic incident. As always great job on the video may you have a healthy 2020.
They are just being covered more than before,a lot of pilots feel like there's a hidden agenda in the works because small ga airports have been under attack for some time now.
SouthJerseySound hey there. Just curious, what type of hidden agenda?
Many smaller airports were established not too far out of town to make them convenient. Now, town has crept close to or even around them and the real estate developers want to plant houses there instead of grass. The town want that too because a lot of people in houses pay higher taxes than a few people with airplanes.
@@ricklynch8620 small GA airports have been under attack for some time now and like the other guy said a lot of the pressure comes from developers and the people that move near them. Lately it feels like the media is trying to portray general aviation as a danger to society and I feel it's just a matter of time before they try to enact more regulations in the name of public safety. I never understood how someone can move near an airport and then complain about the noise. I have to deal with it at my local feild and have had problems with my private strip where I fly my Maule out of. I have always been respectful of my neighbors and followed a self imposed curfew but recently had a complaint from a new neighbor after leaving early one morning. They called the police and claimed that I buzzed their house and we're in fear for their safety. It's total BS and they've taken it upon themselves to make me out to be a a drug dealing rebel because I'm able to afford an airplane that costs less than their Mercedes. But be because I appear to "not work" own a airplane and don't conform to the typical corporate slave I must be bad. Because of their complaints and their relation to the the police I've been pulled over and harassed several times and after several times I had to explain to the police that I fly commercially for a aerial tanker service risking my life to fight fires and that they should be greatful for what I do. The officers response was how I should've just told him that in the beginning and not wasted police resources by being evasive about what I do for a living to be able to afford an airplane.
Seriously how do people feel they have the right to move near an airport that they drive past daily and then complain about the noise it creates? Also I don't know what it is but general aviation has been getting a bad reputation and it's only a matter of time before they enact more regulations in the name of public safety. Anyway I need to pack my bags and head off to Australia where folks truly appreciate what we do fighting bush fires.
SouthJerseySound My family in Australia and I thank you for your help in this time of crisis 🔥🔥🔥
Thanks Juan, excellent video! Happy New Year to you and yours! 🎉
Thanks, this one hits close to home. Very glad to have your input which is always technical in nature with a good dose of common sense added.
When an incident like this occurs I look forward to your insight. I was not aware of some of the quirks of the Cheyenne IIT which may have contributed to this accident. RIP to all the victims and prayers too their families. Thanks again Juan.
Juan! THANKS!! For always taking time to inform and teach us all about aviation.no one does it better .I've learned tons of cool stuff from your videos.wish you and your family a very Happy New Year!I also pray for your health and fast recovery so you get your medical certification back soon! God bless!
I didn't know of so many accidents this year until I subbed this channel. A few were obviously reported on national news. If you want to know the details as correct as possible this is the channel to subscribe. Thank you Juan. So sad another loss of lives.
Thanks man! Been waiting for this video!!!
When you haul a family to Disney Land and you whip out the
bathroom scales to weigh them before boarding, some of the heavier
ones do not want their weight revealed. They just don't understand.
if u dont step on my scales, you dont step in the plane. hard to do, but that's how it is.
@@raybankes7668 I remember when there was a set of scales at the foot of the steps into DC-3 airliners and the co-pilot standing there writing them down. Then he would occasionally move the big ones into seats near the front. Even then, the pilot would have to use both hands pushing forward on the wheel to get the tail off the ground on takeoff.
Jim Foreman
🤣
@@jwb2814 Missed the reply
Jim Foreman
It was a laughing emoji, because your comment was hilarious and informative. If that happened today somebody would cry about weight discrimination.
Haha
I had a long comment ready to post and I pulled the plug on it for the simple reason, none of you or I know what happened and until the primary report and then the final report, then we might have or might not know for sure as one can be in this matter. I have spent 44 years as a Professional Pilot, all of it in Single Pilot Operations- The hardest lesson I had to learn was to say "No". I learned to say no, and I have over the years lost jobs too. Then again I never dinged an Aircraft or killed anybody that rode in the aircraft I was flying. Sad day for the families involved.
Years ago I was on a commercial turboprop from Denver to Rock springs Wyoming and I wished the pilot has said no.. all eight passengers were puking except me but I was scared. Then the pilot had to make a couple of low passes to run the prairie dogs off of the runway and I knew for sure I was going to die.. flying in big commercial Jets is a lot less nerve-racking to me.. you can bet one thing that is if a pilot ever says no I am all for it..
Great report as always, Juan. I do like your straightforward, just-the-facts style. No hype.
Having said that, we do "know" a few things about this crash. Surely the pilot was aware of the ceiling and vis even before taxiing out. Regardless of which FAR part he operated under, he still would've needed an IFR flight plan to depart. With only 1/4 mile vis, he wouldn't be able to see the far end of the 8,000' runway. So it's not like the weather took him by surprise. He knew that he was going to be IMC as soon as he rotated. We can *hope* that he had the cockpit (including the pitch trim) set up properly prior to commencing the takeoff run. Such a takeoff would have been challenging, yes, but should not have been a problem for a current Instrument Rated pilot in his own airplane. Finally, it was only 450 miles from LFT to Atlanta, and his passenger load was light (three males, two females, a teenage boy and probably not a whole lot of baggage) - we can make an educated guess that he wasn't super-duper heavy and that the gross weight and c.g. were *probably* not an issue. I'd bet that at least one of the pax were in the copilot seat.
With it narrowed down even slightly...so...what happened? Ahh, that's where the NTSB comes in. Hopefully they'll be able to tell us eventually. Accidents like this one are always tragic. Sometimes we never figure out *exactly* what caused them. Let's hope we can this time.
Thank you. This is very informative. I have been trying to figure this thing out also. I have 2 cousins that went to college with Carley McCord and were good friends. Such a sad situation. I will wait on NTSB's final report over the next several months.
Happy New Year Juan!
As always, fascinating information.
RIP to allí they died. So sad, especially during the latter part of the holidays. Let's hope we'll learn some answers in due time. There are still quite a few Cheyenne I and II out there flown by competent pilot. Great initial report. You're great.
Thank you for the report.
Sadly, you are being kept to busy with these incidents.
Time to take Pete for another trail ride. 👍
🙏👍❤️
Thank you for another very professional and informative video. Sad that there have been so many incidents lately. Have a happy and safe New Year.
Another informative and knowledgeable report. I have experienced vertigo on a perfectly clear VFR night. Recognized it and then “trusted “ my instruments.
Thanks Juan. I am a bit amazed that after a 900' descent anyone lived after the crash. Thanks to the passersbys who pulled him out.
You get rather technical, and I appreciate that. Aviation info that you understand and explain well. So keep it up Juan.
Excellent synopsis, as usual! Thanks Juan!
Nice report Juan! Looking forward to watching your report on the Atlas crash findings.
Great report. The cg and augmentation info was very interesting to me.
Appreciate your thoughtful analysis and helpful illustrations. Keep up the good work; I’ve learned a lot from you.
When Pilots do their pre-flight calculations for take-off weight and fuel etc etc, are they using actual data of "passengers" on board or some mean value specified by the FAA? Since Americans are generally considered "obese" I think you understand what prompts my question. As you talked about this model aircraft being particularly sensitive to rear CG it gives me even more rise to this aspect.
Thanks for all you do Juan. Jim.
Actual weights are a requirement in the FAA regs with exceptions. 121 ops use the average pax weights for summer/winter ops. Freight is actual weight. Sports teams= actual weights since not many ball players weigh the average weight of 200 lbs (including bags) in summer ops calculations. It probably has changes since I retired from the airlines 16 years ago. A 380 lb boss in a King Air 350 would never sit where I needed him to so keeping the wing lockers full with bags and nothing in the aft cargo hold was required for wt/balance calcs with others on board.
Under 91 its rare for an actual wt & balance calculation to be performed. But to answer the question, no, they don't have authorization to use average weights.
@@skyboy1956 "Under 91 not everyone checks wt and balance." Given that the owner/operator has done several calculations during ownership, it does not take that long to do a W&B. An A-36 Bonanza has six seats, so no problem, right? Until you see the pilot step onto the airstep and the Bone goes onto it's tail. Loud enough for the entire ramp to hear it. Asking ladies their actual weight requires finess. Or a good guess. When a nose tire skips across the tarmac during taxi as you hold full down elevator, and skids when you turn for your runup, you might be out of CG limits. DOH!!
To do all that, they would miss the game...now if a tailgating 10 gal pot of gumbo was too far aft...pull out the calculator. Besides no one looked too heavy.
Excellent video Juan.
Juan, your videos are the greatest! Thank you!
Sad story. Thanks for your report. I've noticed seems fairly common for accidents like this to happen when an aircraft is loaded to or close to the max. Just b/c the specs say it's ok doesn't mean it's a good idea, like if their CG was thrown off that might have contributed to it. Sorry for this loss.
Happy New Year to you and yours. Hope the best for 2020. RIP.
Thank you for the report!
☹️ as always great work by you Juan much appreciate your input and have a good New Year’s with your family and friends
Happy new year 🥳 Juan wish all the best in 2020 n your family 😊👏
So sad to here about any crash. But when it’s general aviation it seems closer to home
Juan, have you been able to digest the Atlas Air 3591 interm report yet? It doesn't paint a pretty picture and I'm curious what you take is on it, given your 767 experience.
Off topic.
Juan, I want to wish you and your family a Happy New Year!!!
Greetings
Rudolf
Sweden
I believe that Lafayette is a class charlie, so they must have been handed off from the tower to departure. Wonder if that happened and if there was any info there? Did the low altitude warning come from the tower or approach/departure control? Nice coverage and very informative. Thanks.
Hi Juan. I did a check and the Piper has a history of left engine failure. I wanted to contact you earlier, but I had no information other than this plane has had a history of left engine failure leading to crashes. So, before I finished watching you, your information about a witness seeing a steep left bank, told me the novice, of course, the Pilot experienced a left engine fail and after steeply banking, corrected the plane and attempted to put the plane down.
However, as you said the were encounters with trees and power lines so we don't know how much damage was done to control surfaces. What is a little unusual is the speed the plane hit at. Naturally, not being a pilot, if your flying on one engine and you need to keep in the air and oriented, you might have to increase the power on the remaining engine and thus becoming fast when approaching the landing, in a field.
Unfortunate, the landing was too difficult to complete. Early video showed a wide area of debris field and my understanding and what I saw was some part of the plane burning heavily against a building. I found the following based on your information today.
Critical engine
When one of the engines on a typical multi-engine aircraft becomes inoperative, a thrust imbalance exists between the operative and inoperative sides of the aircraft. This thrust imbalance causes several negative effects in addition to the loss of one engine's thrust.
When one engine fails, a yawing moment develops, which applies a rotational force to the aircraft that tends to turn it toward the wing that carries the engine that failed. A rolling moment might develop, due to the asymmetry of the lift in each wing, with a greater lift generated by the wing with the operating engine. The yawing and rolling moments apply rotational forces that tend to yaw and roll the aircraft towards the failed engine. This tendency is counteracted by the pilot's use of the flight controls, which include the rudder and ailerons. Due to P-factor, a clockwise rotating right-hand propeller on the right wing typically develops its resultant thrust vector at a greater lateral distance from the aircraft's center of gravity than the clockwise rotating left-hand propeller (Figure 1). The failure of the left-hand engine will result in a larger yawing moment by the operating right-hand engine, rather than vice versa. Since the operating right-hand engine produces a larger yawing moment, the pilot will need to use larger deflections of the flight controls or a higher speed in order to maintain control of the aircraft. Thus, the failure of the left-hand engine has a greater impact than failure of the right-hand engine, and the left-hand engine is called the critical engine. On aircraft with propellers that rotate counter-clockwise, such as the de Havilland Dove, the right engine would be the critical engine.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_engine
So, Juan, I don't know if they will be able to come to any conclusion on this case. It is so unusual, that too many times no mayday call is made. But based on the above factor I can imagine a sensory overload combined with a critical effort to get as much control of the plane as possible. One young woman aboard, who knew what was going to happen, texted her husband she loved him before impact, yet the pilot had no comms to indicate a dire emergency.
There were 5 persons on the plane plus the pilot, if I am correct, and my first thought was weight, as soon as I heard the number of people. So, as I write my thoughts are increased weight leading to increased load on the left engine leading to its failure.
I googled "Piper plane accidents"".
Please excuse this it feels a little inappropriate under the circumstances, however, please have a Happy New Years.
Great Summary into this accident account!
I can appreciate your description of aero spacial disorientation. As you stated it's like having you head inside of a pingpong ball.
Great Job Sir! Keep up the Great Work.
Thank you Juan Brown, to sad there has to be so much of this type of reporting. My deepest condolences go out to the friends and families of these people. I hope 2020 is a happy, healthy year for everyone at Blancolirio World Headquarters.
i believe that is Global. the IATA code is BGH. that airport in Mauritania is bogus.
@@luiul1 I believe you are absolutely correct, just what I get for commenting while fatigued. Happy New Year.
@@russell3380 i could have SWORN i had said HNY in my comment. not fatigue in my case. old age.
Normally I wouldn't comment because as you correctly say we don't know enough and we are just speculating but I would like your expert opinion on the possibility that in this case the vaccum instruments were possibly either not working or inaccurate.
It seems the aircraft was "corrected" a bit after it descended back to visual.
glass panel upgrade in this one apparently.
Just speculating .... but at 5:08 Juan states that the pilot was in an "extremely high workload environment" . This plane was full of happy and exciting people going to the LSU football playoff game. With all the people taking away, this could be a big distraction to the pilot in a very critical situation. What happened in the cabin will not be known unless the adult male, who was burnt down one side of his body, is able to relate what happened leading up to the crash.
Of the 3 people on the ground that were injured, one was in a car that the plane hit and the other two were in a building that was hit and suffered smoke inhalation.
ziggy 2shus even if your speculation turns out to be irrelevant to this particular crash (pilot might have enforced a sterile cockpit during takeoff and climb, we don’t know yet) you make an excellent point, that a plane full of happy, chatty (non-pilot) people can easily be a source of unacceptable distraction during critical phases of flight. A good reminder to all pilots of the importance of minimizing and managing distractions!
My personal anecdote on this is that the only crash I’ve ever had was when I was in an “extremely high workload environment” and had 5 passengers chatting with me, distracting me at a critical moment. Fortunately I was driving a car at the time, not flying, so the consequence was bent sheet metal, no injuries (high workload was driving a rental car in St. Thomas, where they drive American (left-hand drive) cars on the *left* side of the road, and I was making a right turn onto a multi lane road). That accident taught me that even things that feel routine like driving a car can in fact be much more mentally demanding than we appreciate.
A quick maneuver or aoa usually quiets those chatty passengers down.
@@jpe1 when i fly as pilot i instruct passengers on no distractions on take of and landing including talking
I know you may have already reported on this but here is the NTSB Probable Cause. Interestingly, this aircraft nearly hit my daughter's apartment in Lafayette. It hit the power line that feed the complex before crashing into the post office parking lot. Very sad.
NTSB PC
N42CV Piper PA 31T
Findings
Personnel issues Aircraft control - Pilot
Personnel issues Spatial disorientation - Pilot
Environmental issues Low visibility - Effect on personnel
Probable Cause
The pilot’s loss of airplane control due to spatial disorientation during the initial climb in instrument meteorological conditions.
My favorite UA-cam channel
Juan, this is another in a disturbingly long list of GA aircraft that have crashed in the last few months. For this crash, as well as the South Dakota Pilatus, the Dale Earnhardt, and the B-17 crash, there were surviving passengers. However, I have not heard any interviews or even articles about these folks, even though they would all have fascinating stories to tell. Do you know if any of these survivors have been interviewed (by other than NTSB, of course)? Do you think their lawyers are telling them to button up?
Hello Juan. With so many crashes in the news... for instance I live outside of Philadelphia, and we lost two doctors in a Bonanza and a couple guys in a Baron in the same time period, and it makes me wonder why people don't engage the autopilot. I'm forced to wonder if that kind of spatial disorientation happened in this case, and why he didn't reach up and engage that autopilot. I used to tell my instrument students if at any time they became disoriented or got a bad case of the "leans," to engage that autopilot button and look at the attitude indicator....and extend it mentally in either direction as a visual cue to help get them reoriented.
Is an enunciation light lit on the Cheyenne 2 when the SAS is disabled? The NTSB noted the enunciation panel was somewhat intact. Perhaps the lights can be analysed to determine which lights were lit?
yes.
Great breakdown once again. Lots to consider here. As a frequent passenger in smaller aircraft when I was working (retired), many pilots I flew with, insisted on privacy while in preflight and passenger silence until reaching a predetermined flight level. Obviously this allowed the pilot to concentrate on his environment and duties required to attain flight level and speed. I always respected and felt comfortable with those individuals.
'Sterile Cockpit'- working environment.
The Aviation Consumer article pretty much says it all. Thank you!
Sadly this has been a busy week for Juan.
Thanks!! Happy New Year!!!
Thanks for update as always!
Excellent report, as usual.
Juan, not sure if anybody else pointed out that the aircraft had made an approximate 270deg turn at the time of impact. It was flying on an approximate heading of 330 deg in level flight when it impacted the power line and then the ground.
In regard to altitude...the plane had reached 900 feet before making the left-hand turn...Would 900 feet been a “normal” altitude the plane should have reached at that point? As a non-pilot, I was curious if that indicates the plane was climbing accordingly or the aircraft should have been higher and may have been struggling to reach 900? Thanks for any insight.
Why the left turn shortly after departure. Was it at the direction of ATC or part of a Standard Instrument Departure? Was the Pilot instrument rated, and was he current? My first inclination was that they may have had a left engine failure shortly after entering IMC, but if observer reports are correct that both engines were screaming that may not be the case. Non-aviation related eye witnesses reports are not always accurate. They will be able to tell from the props and the engines if they were producing power at impact. Update: According to the second NTSB briefing the aircraft initially was on an assigned 240 degree heading. They indicated that they did have an aviation related witness, but also cautioned on relying on witness reports. The Pilot had approximately 1500 hours of experience.
Shenandoah Hills just out of curiosity.....did you listen to the video at all before posting your comment?
Kind of rude sir, positive comments please.
@@shademe Hi Lauren, was not trying to be rude. The reports only indicated that the Pilot had a commercial Pilot's license. Sure hope he had an instrument ticket. To me the left turn would be significant if he was not directed by ATC or procedure. The speed trace showed the aircraft at 183kts which was pretty fast as he had not reached 1000', so I doubt that the SAS system would have come into play.
@@CJP-oz6hr Certainly, I really enjoy Juan's presentations. It is obvious that he puts a lot of time and effort into every one of them.
Ok, thanks for your clarification. Seem like you also have done some homework and I apologize if I came across as rude. Happy New year to you and everyone!
I flew a PA-31-350 Navajo Chieftain for several years. It was a very stable platform.
Michael Brown flew that too commercially. The Cheyenne is a totally different animal; fastAF.
like juggling, the more eggs in motion, the more chances that one/all can be dropped, getting away with it depends on where you're at in the program. ping pong ball is dead on, drifted into a few in freefall and under canopy, bad, bad things can be found in clouds. Happy New Year, Mr. Brown to you and yours!