Staged Right - Episode 22: Exploring the Politics of 'Wicked'
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- This episode covers the unexpected origins of Gregory Maguire's 'Wicked', the dark beginnings of Elphaba, and how Saddam Hussein and George W. Bush helped shape the Oz 'multiverse' as we know.
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The backstory of Baum's mother in law is fascinating considering in the book Fiyero, Elphaba's lover, is meant to be ambiguously indigenous, and later on she goes on to live with his wife and sisters in law in the mountains.
I really appreciate Maguire as an author - he gave a wonderful lecture at my university which I got to attend as part of a Wizard of Oz-focused class I was in. I cried listening to him talk about what the process of creating Wicked’s musical adaptation was like!
Knowing that L.Frank Baum's extened family was into bits of occultism makes so much sense. Having Santa being raised by a lioness and a wood nymph. In a forest of immortals along with pretty much the Horned King is starting to connect a few dots 😅😂 (please read The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus)
The quote from LFB’s mother-in-law near the end of her life is basically “Defying Gravity” 😅 It’s also very much in the pattern of Elphaba’s speech (in the musical at least)!
This is one of the better theatre video essays on UA-cam!
I was today years old when I realized that the emcee from Cabaret played the Wizard in Wicked!
I was already excited for the films' interpretation, but with your tour of its history, background and political themes, I am even more intrigued and will go into my next viewing with a greater appreciation of it. Fantastic job with the documentary.
Oooh, fascinating your analysis about Elphaba leaving Oz, since, in hindsight, she's probably the one character who has traveled all over the country. She was born in Munchkinland, lived her childhood in Squadling Country, went to college / lived her first years of adulthood in the north (Gillikin and the Emerald City), and then spent her last years in the West.
This was a wonderful video and I learned quite a bit so thank you for that. I really enjoyed learning about the author's mother in law that was quite fascinating. It is quite interesting that OZ was/should be a matriarchy when that wasn't a common view in children (or any really) media at that time. And yes I hope the film does dive a little deeper into darker elements of the book.
I'm glad you included the original end of the show with Dr. Dillimond as since I first heard it I really enjoyed it. And yes I agree the NY ending works better for the relationship between Elphie and Glinda, but I would like Dr. Dillimond's plot point to be resolved somehow. And I know the film is already made, but now I kind of want that ending scene rewritten and added into part 2. I would say between Glinda telling the wizard off and the finale, she ends up finding Dr. Dillimond and tries to get him to remember her and say her name, now not caring that he can't pronounce it as "Ga"linda like she did during her school days. I think it would just be a more impactful moment when in the show her name change can be seen s a "joke", but this way there would be a sweet, important point. Plus then we would see, even if it's no public yet, Glinda is trying to carry on her best friend's work as she was asked and is also trying to be "Glinda The Good" for real. That is just my view on what I wish could be added.
Keep up the great work and I hope once the movie comes out we'll hear from you again. And what are any of your hopes for the movie? Again wonderful job :)
Come for Wicked facts - stay for Matilda Joslyn Gage who should get a musical, a movie and a TV show about her!
Again, this gem comes up because of my perfectly curated algorithm.
I grew up fascinated with 1938 movie, acquired a second-hand copy of Aljean Hermetz' book in the 80's and read it so many times I am surprised it hasn't fallen apart. I also bought and read a number of "inspired by" Oz books (Notably "Was" by Geoff Ryman and "A Barnstormer of Oz" by Philip José Farmer), so of course I bought a hardcover copy of "Wicked" as soon as it was published and the cast album, T-Shirt, and baseball cap as soon as they were available. (The hat remains my bad hair day go-to.) When the show finally opened in Chicago, I was thrilled to finally see the Act II scene with Nessa and Boq, but what struck ME most about finally seeing the ending was how cynical it was.
I didn't see Elphaba's survival and escape as uplifting but as depressing. It told me was that "Popular" was the moral of the entire show -- idealism and good intentions are fine, but they are not enough. They must be tempered to appeal to the masses. You MUST be popular first.
BTW, I suspect it is due to our relative ages, but you (and most folks) missed a very prominent reference to Ronald Reagan in the bridge of "Popular". Sure, "the Teflon President" was was used by his flummoxed critics, but his supporters in the media dubbed him "The Great Communicator"!
I always thought that the other Oz books showed how much dorothy and glinda were really hard on other folks in the realm, and their hoarding of magic. Wicked seemed just what i wanted as an adult prequel.
Watched your cabaret video earlier, got curious about what other videos might catch my eye, and ended up being early
Your presentation and narration are excellent! I really appreciated your section on Baum's mother-in-law. And that cast member saying, "They are making these {Wicked} films to win Oscars" is right on and tells us exactly what we can expect. It also tells us exactly why "WICKED" was divided into two films. It's a cash grab and Oscar bait, pure and simple. The business of Hollyweird. Hopefully, the films will be good and worthy "Oscar bait." If they disappoint, there's still the timelessness and sincerity of Judy Garland in MGM's 1939 "THE WIZARD OF OZ", which I prefer, anyway.
Oh my god! I am so excited for this!
Incredible research on all the source materials. I always look forward to your videos. Wicked Witch Forever!
X
This is my Favorite musical 😀❤️❗️
Elphaba is my Favorite #1 comfort charather
first time watching one of your videos. It is not often on You Tube that an influencer can astonish me with an intelligent, thoughtful, accurate, truthful, and thought provoking persuasion. Bravissimo!
I am excited most to see how the movie will interpret the love story between Fieryo and Elphaba. When Elphie finally lets go of her inhibitions and finds her truth to love herself embracing her imperfections and uniqueness, she gains the courage to love Fieryo on a level few will ever experience in this lifetime. I hear Mamma RU in my head, "Don't F*ck it up!"
You touch on it a little in the video, but the Finnish production is actually really interesting when it comes to the themes of populism/fascism. From the photos I've seen and things I've read, that production ratcheted up the authoritarian feel of Oz by doing things like having characters "disappeared" off stage by Oz soldiers and never seen again, designing the Wizard's lair with a lot of eye theming (Big Brother is watching you and all that) and costuming the Wizard to look like Joseph Stalin
Fantastic work as always, man. I can't believe how much this channel has grown, but its all down to your passion for the subject matter and your commitment to a fair and accurate view of history. Your perspective is so appreciated.
Also, where can I get merch for LFB's MIL cause I think I would die for her
I would too.
This is the Wicked video essay I’ve been waiting for- THANK YOU
I devoured this video essay! So so good! From a European point of view, to me the politics are what makes Wicked stand apart from the other more "commercial" musicals. As smooth as they are compared to the book, there's still enough lines and plot points that it's still very present and clear what Wicked stands for and what it's commenting on. I also hate that the story gets more relevant every passing year, how ironic indeed that the long awaited movie version will get released just after an important election, but I guess it wouldn't be Oz if it didn't have its pulse on where the USA are now.
Thank you for watching! X
I came in interested in the title topic and ended up leaving OBSESSED with Matilda Gage
I wonder if the Avenue Q movie will come out before the Oscars? Vote with your heart! Lol😂
I fell in love with Wicked, the novel, and read the sequels, Son of a Witch and A Lion of a Man. I was really put off of the musical as they changed and left out so much of the political intent. It sounds like the films are attempting to marry the musical back to its source.
I hope it won't be a case of attempting to please everyone but pleasing none.
I feel the same way, and I wish the sequel books got more attention in general, because they're so interesting. I love how he plays around with timelines and elements from the original books.
I need to try reading them again, I was too young when I tried the first time... I got to the part where baby Elphaba ate a person's finger and it made me immediately close the book 😂
That is my concern about the films as well: "attempting to please everyone but pleasing none."
'That is more than "I guess we're friends"'
Agreed
I hope these films have nuance
I saw it on stage and didn't think it lived up to the hype.
Wicked premiered when I was in Middle School/High School so while I have loved it for a long time, I hadn’t really interrogated the political aspects of it…and then I took my cousin to see it on Broadway the weekend after the 2016 election, and was a little shocked at how blatantly political it was (and how much the audience reacted to some of those lines you mentioned). I always pictured it as a much more sanitized version of the book, and while it is, it definitely has moments of commentary on the the Bush administration in particular and corrupted populism in general (and I’m sure the movie will read to some as a reaction to the Trmp admin).
Well researched and beautifully told story of Wicked. Thank you for your scholarship. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Been struggling making my own video of this nature! This is so good. I’ve been fascinated with the world of the wicked novels for some time. It’s the version of Oz that if you peel back all of the high vocabulary and descriptions and just leave the story, it’s so great what he’s done. The way I wonder about the happenings in Oz is great.
Thank you! X
I hope they go for more of a Lord of the Rings and less of a Harry Potter replacement franchise. The first one feels more aware of its themes and the second is rather clunky and honestly crap at whatever the hell it was trying to say. That's kind of my concern with the Wicked films right now. Like the video states, we'll see and fingers crossed! Also, good video! I learned a lot about the background of the books!
We need a Babel (R.F. Kuang) movie. Then a Babel musical. Then a Babel movie musical.
Same! Honestly watching this makes me think I may take another shot at the book.... when I first read it, I got to the part when baby Elphaba ate someones finger and I promptly closed the book 😂
I am really excited for the expansion of the Magic System. In the book and the musical, magic is very matter of fact and yet very untangiable. For what I saw on the trailer I am guessing they're gonna give Elpahaba time to understand and work through her magic. One thing that is very clear in the musical is how connected her powers are to her emotions, so I believe if they handle it well, that could be an amazing tool and reflection of her inner journey, I'm excited to see. On the other hand, on both, her magic comes from being a "daughter of two worlds", and I would love for the script to go deeper into that notion.
I'm probably the only one, but I would love to see some of the old Oz vaudeville shows get modern productions. They're kind of an odd little footnote, but I think it would be fun.
thank you!
i love your channel, especially since we all benefit from your research and synthesizing from all of the source material that you responsibly give credit! keep up the wonderful work.
This video is awesome! Congrats!
I can also probably do my own video about How all this relates to neurodiversity and the otherneess and rejection females or AFAB people with autism , ADHD etc are often subjected to😓
Matilda Joslyn Gage - what a woman!! I hope there are soft references to her across the two films. I want to write a film about her.
I am looking forward to how they portray the Muscical Number For Good with Elpheba and Glinda.
Great discussions in this video!
Thanks!
Well done. So much more to Wicked than "Popular," a love triangle, and friendship.
Interestingly, Wicked was the first Broadway play that I saw on Broadway, and during that same trip to New York in 2015, my mom told me that, "a very awful man is running for president, although he has virtually no chance since he has no political experience." We had of course just walked passed Trump Tower.
I’m amazed Mayim Bialik hasn’t starred in a Margaret Hamilton biopic. That would be Oscars gold!
Please read the book! It’s fabulous.
I think the movies will be more in depth with the book than the show so maybe something will resonate with the viewer so who knows
I think those political tones in the story may have lost their specificity (I certainly didn’t think of Clinton or Bush when I first saw Wicked) but they haven’t lost their heft. I wish that it weren’t true but the concept of “you celebrate a unique person as long as it benefits you, and then publicly demonize their outward traits as soon as they disagree with you” is not only still relevant but increasingly so as modern day media and politics use it more and more shamelessly.
If anything, it’s made Wicked slightly less subtle over time just by merit of how aware we all are of it now.
I'm very hopeful the rumors of more inclusion of the book are true, as it's one of my favorites. My personal gripe with the musical is how they change the origin stories of the Tin Woodman and the Scarecrow; as an Oz purist, the changes feel like a cheap copout.
I call it the Oz multiverse. The original MGM movie has its own mythology, varied again in Disney’s Return to Oz, the novel of ‘Wicked’, not to mention the hot mess that is ‘Oz the Great and Powerful’.
I love Wicked deeply. The show debuted when I was in high school, and I was obsessed from the first time I heard a piece of the music. But I have to be honest, I am not looking forward to the screen adaptation. Jon Chu is a great director, but the choice to split it into two movies is a red flag to me, on top of the fact that this project was in development hell for, like, 15 years. There hasn't been a single detail I've learned about this project that has given me confidence in a strong final product, but I truly do hope that I'm worried for nothing.
Great presentation. Too bad the dozen UA-cam ads broke in at inappropriate times to turn it into chaos.
I went to see Wicked a few weeks ago, that Unelected official line got a good response, as I imagine it has for the past few prime ministers.
How interesting!
I know this will never happen but I would love to see Liir or a character like him in the second movie. The scenes with him and elphaba were some of my favorites.
Weird fun fact: In the original 2005 premiere in Chicago, Elphaba was played by the infamous Ana Gasteyer (best known for her SNL career)
I DON’T CARE AS LONG AS THEY MAKE THE FULL SHOW
Ugh I want Liir in the movies 😭
I want them to not be cowards and let Glinda and Elphaba be queer already! It’s so obviously baked into the songs and the story. That would definitely give it more weight and make it resonate more.
I have low expectations for the movie, I love the musical so much I doubt they will live up to it. Also they took away Glinda's curls
I don't know what exactly you're referring to when talking about current issues... I hope the movies don't make it seem like they're pointing fingers at some specific directions? Because nowadays with so much misinformation, fake news, social media echo chamber - there is demonization from all kinds of "sides". It's the horseshoe effect where the extremes of each side become similar to one another...
The world is more complex than 'Good' and 'Wicked', that's what I think should be an important takeaway. If people come out of Wicked thinking there is a clear wicked that just acts out of wickedness (especially when it's about what people are rather than what a person actually does) - then that's a big failure.
The parable resonates even more now, especially since 2016.
I'm surprised you didn't touch on the accidental jewish coding that was made when creating the Witch in the 37 film! The long nose and green skin weren't a part of the witch's design in the book, and it instead has in common with typical antisemitic propaganda of the time. I'm thinking Maguire was very self aware of that when he wrote Wicked, and hence why the story both in the book and the musical has a strong race allegory with Elphaba's character.
Okay.
I really hope the director of the films watched a lot of MGM musicals to learn how to film dance numbers....
“Secular” means void of any religion at all, not just Christianity.
Cool. Thanks.
That guy from the cast is far more bigoted and simple-minded than I think he can even imagine himself to be. It’s not his fault, any more than it’s any of our fault for falling into the same ideological traps. These are fraught times.
But the irony as he speaks with such moral authority and, by extension, disdain for those who see things differently from him, is ominous. Even a little scary.
At the *very* least, such dogmatic obedience makes for silly and boring art. What he calls “dangerous” is the only safe bet under our current mainstream creative regime. Which would all be fine, if the function of theater was to congratulate one half of the population, and dismiss the other.
this was a really interesting and excellent researched video. one thing i think it's a little irresponsible not to note though when speaking about baum and his connection to his MIL and her inspiration by indigenous communities, is that baum believed in the complete extermination of indigenous people in america, a hardline racist opinion that was no by no means the standard belief of the time.
Hi there. I’m very well aware of LFB’s disturbing op-Eds which were published through his newspaper, but determined I could not include them without completely changing the scope of the video. It is not a subject to be mentioned in passing. As you will hear, I have cited both the American Oz doc and Finding Oz biography which covers his genocidal sentiments (without sentiment) to address the more ambivalent aspects of LFB. I especially appreciated Sally Roesch Wagner’s dismissal of an ‘either or’ perspective on his horrifying writings and viewing it as a ‘both and’ situation. After 22 episodes on this channel, I have learned through trial and error (and continue to learn) that I cannot always include everything that I find in my research. This sometimes frustrates people who are upset that I don’t mention certain details. But I can assure you, even as a humble UA-camr, I do try to take responsibility for what I put out there. I do hope that people will watch the documentary or read Evan Schwartz’s book and learn that this writer of a great classic was really just a human being, flaws and all. Thanks for watching. X
What happened to Stephanie J. Block being the original lead? It seems like a secret? Like Menzel booted her out. But the how and why we don’t know? Do we? Asking for a friend.. lol
Stephanie at that point was a west-coast regional actor who had no clout in New York. Idina had been in the one of the biggest musicals of the 90s and was trying to establish a theatre career on the east coast after a failed record venture. To get buzz going for the NY readings and workshops of 'Wicked', a recognizable Broadway name with Broadway clout was simply the more practical route. SJB eventually did get to do the tour and Broadway. She's spoken pretty frankly and understandably how devastating it was to not to take the show to NY. But it has nothing to do with Idina.
Yes, SJB was not a big enough name, that's true. If she were they would have probably moved on with her. But I think the way people make it as if Idina was chosen just because of name recognition is somewhat disrespectful. They held auditions, and liked Idina's interpretation. And honestly, personally, I've always liked her interpretation much better than SJB's. It felt more well-rounded. Personally, with all due respect to SJB and empathy towards her feelings, I think Idina was the right person for the job. It is not rare at all for one actor to do the workshop and another opening the show, yet when it comes to Wicked people talk about it as if it were such a rarity.
Ahh, ok. Thanks. I agree that Idina was right for the job. I’ve see many performances of wicked and loved them all and with all due respect for those actresses, who were enormously talented, nobody embodies that role like Idina. There is only 1 Elphaba and one Glinda. Idina and Kristen.
I hope to be queen Ozma in a Oz film adaptation 🏳️⚧️👸
Love your channel. One suggestion: it would’ve been nice to have a content warning for violence against children. I’m overly sensitive & even hearing the (important) detail in a larger story is something I’m not always ready to handle. Thanks!
Thank you. X
And now the movie adapation Will come on the Hills of the omnius 2024 election😓😥
Sadly if you think Jon Chu is interested or even capable of bringing more nuance to this show & perhaps delving more deeply into the dark political implications of the novel & how they relate to today’s charged & horrifying political landscape, you are horribly mistaken. We are talking about a man who completely removed any and all grittiness, honestly & truth from In the Heights and turned the story into a watered down “Disneyfied” fantasyland in the service of political correctness & wokeism. The central storyline of a black man in love w a non-black Latina woman & the disapproval of her often racist father was removed. The grittiness of the Washington Heights streets, completely sterilized into a fantasyland where even words like “thug” or the idea that ppl would break into a bodega were deemed
too controversial. I have no hope Chu can tell an honest or real story.
Ah yes, the ‘wokeism’ comments. Took a month but I finally got one. Welcome! Thanks for your optimism.
@@StagedRight is watering down/ changing/ removing / altering the honest grittier truths of Lin Manuel’s story In The Heights not apropos to wokeism? I am a Latina who grew up in an area outside of LA very much like Washington Heights. In the Heights, like Wicked (both novel & musical) had a profound effect on my life. Together these 3 works comprise my ultimate favorite works of art. I was simply saying that after Chu’s treatment of In the Heights I doubt very much his willingness to go darker into grittier truths w Wicked. Im not sure why you’re offended. Every single Latino family has that one family member prejudiced against African Americans. There are gangs & yes other Latinos refer to them as thugs because they do thuggish things like break into liquor stores. In just one example of many: Chu took the racism that often comes from within our own community (and what Miranda chose to highlight in his story) and directed it outward. Now Latinos aren’t racist ever, it’s the white ppl at Stanford who are racist to us. Nina isn’t struggling at college because it’s simply hard. It’s because she’s being discriminated against. Chu was afraid to have Latinos painted in any negative light for fears of being called racist. In doing so he diminished the story. I don’t know what to call that if not wokeism. Im curious as to what you wld call it. And also why you seem to feel (judging from your comment) i am somehow required to be optimistic about my favorite musical being ruined by someone who already ruined my other favorite musical.
I’m sorry that’s your experience. Personally, I came to the ITH movie with no affinity for the show and (honestly) no real overwhelming feeling from the movie itself . I enjoyed some of the performances and some of the cinematography. It was just fine. That being said, a lot of people went nuts for it. Naturally, not everybody is gonna feel the same. I, of course can’t speak for your experience as a Latina. I’m sorry it was disappointing for you. That being said, and speaking in the broadest terms, I find casting aspersions online regarding a project yet to be released based on one’s personal feelings, not wholly productive. If you don’t care for Jon Chu, fair. But don’t Lin Manuel Miranda and Quiara Alegría Hudes (who wrote the original piece and co-produced the movie) share responsibility for how the movie came out? Just my thought. Again, I’m sorry the movie didn’t reflect your love for the original show.
@@StagedRight i said nothing about casting in any of my comments (not sure if you’ve confused me w someone else). While i do have strong opinions on the matter i have kept them wholly to myself. I only voiced my belief & opinion that based on his work w In the Heights-IMO sterilizing & “Disneyfying” the source material-i harbor grave doubts that Chu is capable of getting into the grittier darker themes of the Wicked novel & incorporating them into his film. That was all that was ever proffered. Anyway, thanks for conversing & i enjoyed your video.
I’m a Right wing guy and still greatly enjoy this channel and the very well researched and presented material in every video.
I saw “Wicked” in London in 2019, and it was a marvelous production all around. With that said, I will not see either film as (1) they’re at least a decade too late, and (2) I’m underwhelmed by the cast.
Have no fear tho: by casting a Black woman as Elphaba, the producers are no doubt seeking to make allusions to modern racial issues in order to pander, and I’m sure that our 45th President will be worked into the criticism somehow.
@scottydub Thanks for showing that even though Right wing people like musicals they are still racists and asses. That “Black woman “ a Tony winning, Emmy and Oscar nominated actress but you the only reason they would select her is to “pander”.
My dad used to always tell me about how George W. was basically the wizard from Wicked. It was somewhat funny how he’s always segue into it, but was he wrong?
I give you credit for being generous enough to actually want to see the movie but I also find it ironic that musical theatre fans are who’re keeping the crappy-Broadway-to-Hollywood-adaptation-for-the-sake-of-money-and-awards machine alive.
I’d washed my hands of big screen adaptations of musicals a long time ago and the casting choices in this one are just unforgivable
As you will see in the comments, there are a number of people who do not share the enthusiasm of the fans... or the "professional influencer fans". For me, 'Wicked' was a formative musical from my teens and while there are still moments I look forward to (I'm seeing it in Toronto next week) there are are parts that... do not hold up. That being said... someone else pointed this out online... it is nice to see people excited about something they love. It's a terrible slog of a time for countless people around the world right now and I hope we can allow some relief and joy, even for a silly movie... er, movies. Thanks for watching. X