Exact this, i rather have bad comps in Blitz then queu time. Short queu times over everything else, i want to play the game, not sit hours in queu. Then you queu as a healer to see if things go better, but then you often end up going 3-3 (shuffle) and gain no rating. Want healers to queu? give us rating on 3-3 lobby's. Just fix queu times blizz, i don't care if comps are imbalanced or classes are to OP because of this or that; whatever, just fix the queueueueueueueueue times.
This. I spend 80% of my time in WoW sitting in dornogal in SS queue. LFG is a nightmare, i can’t get past 2200 in 3s as a gladiator, and shuffle ques are 15-60 minutes. My main is 2300cr and i sit in que for 60+ mins doing nothing
@@glennvanrymenant3118 the matchmaking is absolutely horrendous already as is, i can't imagine how god awful they would be if they "fixed" they queue times
@@vaylox09 I have 8 alts now, all i do is get to 2100ish and then make a new alt bc theres no ques and everyone is r1. I start my alt at 1800 mmr, get a fast first que, go 6-0, now im over 2k mmr and ques take forever and are mglads. So yeah 8 fully geared alts lol nothing better to do as a pvper
Im 30, have 2 kids and work as Engineer. Have at best 1-2 hours to play after kids bedtime. I only play wow and will always do. My main problem is the mmr system and time in que. Thats why i rerolled to healer in DF to be able to get games in time. If they fix healers MMR/rewards and balance the bottom healers. The que time will fix itself. Leaving the only problem left to be the damn MMR system. Note; ur assesment of the problem are spot on. The game is fun but me and my friends dont have the time or want to weste my time on shit games.
In Similar shoes. I have a lot of patience and played since TBC. But modern day LFG M+ induced more rage in me than all my previous WoW experiences combined.
Similar situation but imo they need to forsake the healer/dps dynamic. It's an antiquated game design. Just make all healers into augmentation evoker-type support dps classes that way we can just play 3v3 with just DPS and the queues will be fast.
Similar, however I can’t keep going back at this point. Everything continues to be toxic…systems don’t get fixed. There’s NO actual support or anyone you can actually talk to…they just don’t care anymore. So why should we? 🤷🏽♂️
Same, I tried playing healer but it bores me to death. My solution: sit in queue for shuffle / blitz with it minimised and play hardcore wow on the other tab 😂
Just started trying to rank and im at like 1600, and i feel like people are way to good at what shouls be a bad rating. They sometimes do perfect cc chains, cant even move
Ya I’ve been duelist since I’ve played and can’t get past 2k. Let’s be serious though best time to push is at the end of the season, so that’s when I’ll play again day after day. People know this and do the same
The constant class changes have also cost me so much rating. One week your class can be tanky and aggressive, next week your a glass Canon. Add to that the mmr issue and it's really hard to enjoy
Chances are you are not playing with other human beings, you are against a of highly sophisticated Weak-aura abusers. Most of them are paid secretive projects, aka cheating. When your chaos bolt/glacier spike are steadily disjointed by shadowmeld. When your enemies consistently achieve max cleave and ST theoretical damage despite being very dumb otherwise. Elephants are in the room just nobody talks about them.
I just think there's too much community gate keeping when it comes to Mythic+. If we need to show our Credit Score, mothers maiden name, blood of the first born, just to get invited to a group, I am just going to do something else.
Yep exactly, and also gearing is worse then dragonflight for ppl who don't raid mythic and only do m+ content. 1 mythic track piece from rng vault per week ? While the ilvl / stats between hero track and myth track is way to huge.
@@prod7906 I want to do m+ and am a multi glad on 7 classes, and top 100 in ss for 4 classes, across melee and range, and am getting denied to +3s and 2s because I don't have an io, I think I have pretty good knowledge on how stuff works considering.
Stop calling it gate keeping. There is nothing stopping you from making your own groups. Even better yet, play a tank or healer and always get invited. If you play a dps you have to compete with like 15 other dps the want to join as well and if there are 2 other dps with a better score than you they are generally going to get picked because people want the highest chance to succeed. This does not mean that the people that get picked over you are “better” but other than score there is nothing else to judge you by. Pushing your own key is the best thing you can do if you are a dps, you can also invite who you want and see why people “gate keep”
Exactly this. WoW used to be a world, now it’s a game. I know, I know, maybe that’s my nostalgia kicking in, but I also think it’s true. The community aspect, the social aspect, the vibrancy of the world itself, is just very very different now. I guess it’s time to try classic. I know it won’t be the same as it was, but I feel like I want to give it one more go before I close the book on WoW.
I think its because we get older. I tried classic and all that stuff i liked back then, i hated. When i started playing Wow, i often played 8-14 hours a day, now im lucky if i get 4 hours and often i only got 1 hour. So i think "hey, lets do a fast as before dinner" but after a que for 35mins, i get in the lobby and then in the middle dinner is ready and i cant leave the shit and my wife gets annoyed, im a bad example for my kid and i feel bad for those things. So im sure its not less vibrant or stuff like that, you still have the same opportunities and even more, to be social, but you probably just dont have the time or energy for it
It’s a waste of time. Wait for people to play with while walking around doing nothing or play with dickheads who leave after one bad match. Community is terrible. Games terrible. It’s a second job and I’m not trying to work on it anymore. Save yourself
@MartialArtzz Even if Blizzard stopped patching for class tuning every fucking week ... there have been more updates from this exp, than from Vanilla to today. people get bored... There is a new meta every week ... I would say enough
I think a lot more than people realize or want to admit. I can legitimately say even with phasing I’m seeing DRAMATICALLY more people on Classic than I’ve seen even during launch week of TWW.
Many prefer the classic style of gameplay as it feels a lot more accessible to new players and those who are getting older who have slowing reaction times. I still play retail but the gameplay is frustraing, far too much cc and micro cc in the game, far too much interrupts required. The game needs to change, instead of a cc game style it needs to change back to a more cd style game, people hate when they can't play their character with ridiculous cc chains, cd style is much better and quicker.
The problem with WoW right now IMO is 3 major things 1. PvP queue times and rating gain problems / lack of rewards in anything other than 3s 2. M+ griefers who brick keys or leave when they get salty, wasting 30+ minutes of peoples time 3. "Microtransactions" that cost literally 90 dollars...
Here’s my experience (as a player of 10’years that works full time etc). I get to play after work for maybe 2-3 hours of an afternoon/evening. The only thing I enjoy is PVP (I play aff lock at 1900cr). Yesterday I sat 3 25-40min ques…..only to be queued into 3 prot paladin lobby’s!! Out of the 18 shuffle games I won 7….lost rating, end up pissed off and with negative rating! The fact I’m paying for this is crazy to me lol
Problem is the aging population no longer looks at these things like jobs. It used to be you’d have to put in a certain amount of time but for me, as I got older, I noticed I enjoyed things more if I started doing them in smaller doses. I’m still on WoW everyday but sometimes I don’t even do that much
I don't have hours upon hours to put into the game, and even if I did, I don't want to. I'm not addicted to video games like that anymore. I'd like to log in and play some BGs and a couple of solo shuffles. The queues are too long, the gearing takes too long. Embellishments, gems, conquest... It's too much of an effort. I also tried healer and it's too stressful. Honestly, they need to get rid of healers completely. Nobody wants to play them. Make all the healer classes into augmentation evoker-type classes that allow dps but are still a support class. That way we can just play 3v3 full dps.
I got back into PvP, it was fun. Then i realised i was waiting 10-25 minutes per que. Last night, i cancelled my subscription. I just dont have the time. Which really sucks.
@Supatease What you don’t realize is that people like you (R1, Multi Glad) kill PvP. Maybe not short term or monthly or anything, but the long term affect of high experience players only playing with high experience. My guess is that on your main character or main class you haven’t played any 3s seriously, or jumped into discord with people you don’t know, or haven’t known for years. The community is killing the game. I am part of the problem also. I’m also multi gladiator and it frustrates me to play with non gladiators, and I wish I could get some r1 team mates to improve, but as mentioned above… we all gate-keep people below us to have the chance to move up…
It’s refreshing to here a glad say this, most of them just say “getting glad is so easy it’s super accessible for anyone” no the fuck it isn’t, the lack of player base, elitist attitudes, and bad rating system make it so that only the top players get rewards
True! I lost my buddies now I have no patience to play with new players that have no experience, but im not good enough to play with r1 people, so we are all stuck at some point.
Great game mode but they need to do something to speed up ques. They should just make it so you can get lobbies with one or no healers vs one or no healers equally mirrored just to speed up the ques. Also better reward structure is needed for blitz as well
Actually it wouldn't, if it was my key and people were automatically plugged in I'd kick instantly if the io or spec were wrong. BTW me wanting to exorcise control over group comp isn't toxic. Expecting a free carry is.
@@jaypietersen6093They could keep current M+ rules and have it automated based on your score. Kicking someone instantly would just mean you deplete your key.
@@jc6087 yeah, so carry or deplete. M+ would die in a day. Not a good solution. People being less bad is the answer, but no one has accountability. Bad call my guy.
@@ssv-y2q could I get a ranged dps banned if they don’t interrupt a ranged caster? Could I get a warrior banned if they don’t pull enough dps? Could i get dps banned if dps start attacking mobs while I’m trying to gather a few packs of adds together? All of these things would be an issue in a solo que environment just the same as they are now. If I report you for not getting any inturrupts there should also be punishment because you are being a toxic asshole for not doing your part. I’d give solo queue a week before the yt videos and forum rage started. Until the player base realizes that knowing the dungeons and what happens in them is the fastest way to get gear out of them adding a solo que won’t fix anything.
The problem with BGB is there is no incentive to play past 2400 unless your going for a rank 1 title. Most people got their BGB 2400 in week 2-4 of the season. Blizz needs to add recolor glad mounts for other brackets, maybe tokens for old elite sets, idk something. Maybe extra cosmetic sets for healers. It’s so easy to make incentives for people to grind and keep playing but they just don’t do it. It took a guy on Reddit 15 minutes to design an insane looking 2400 mount for BGB. like wtf is blizz doing
They do that all the time. That's not the answer. They just need good patch, and leave it alone. So we don't have to respec all the time and play in the same season where people push rank 1 with OP spec that doesn't even exist anymore. Reaching an untouchable status on the ladder. That's pretty wack.
The gap between the top and the bottom is absolutely humongous. As an 1800 and below player, I feel like I have 0 chance when I play a high player in an alt. I know “git good” is incoming, but constant ass beatings without being able to move or being 100-0 in 2 seconds isn’t fun at all.
But even when I did get geared, then you need add ons to track everything that’s going on. There’s a new game out called Ring of Titan that I’ve been playing around with and it gives that arena feel without the gear grind. I’m a long time wow player, but taking a break and not being consistent makes you feel so far behind. That’s probably why I’m addicted to league now
Doesn’t need help. The game is just cooked. You literally have SIX versions of classic. Plus retail. They took an already dwindling player base and split it six ways more or less. Truthfully in 2024 people don’t have the attention span to lock in and commit for such a long grind in classic or wait a long que time in retail. Only the 25+ age players really enjoy classic. Just make one game and make it really good for everyone
The problem is 2-3 weeks into any patch every key is 15+ and no one takes anything other than the sweaty classes and every pvp group is 1400cr with "glad xp only" in the description
@ssv-y2q Max has talked about it before on the PoddyC, if they make gear rewards stop at heroic and make mythic just cosmetics game health would immediately improve
M+ has become way too elitist now, the crest grind is horrendous as is pugging. It’s too difficult for most - and I know “make your own group” etc are coming, but the numbers speak for themselves. They need to make delves scale higher and provide better rewards.
Unavoidable 100000yards ranged pet stun, into unmissable unbreakable undispellable trap, into unmissable undispellable (cause then it auto pops) silence, into dr scatter into whatever 2 other players have, on a 45 sec cd is the single reason the game is dieing. No single healer (r1, glad,1600 xp) is able to continue coping with this. The amount of cc in the game, and on some classes alone, is absolutely absurd.
I agree, the CC style gameplay is not welcoming to newer players or casuals, it's also not very fun not being able to control your character for so long. If they focused more on a cooldown focus gameplay than crowd control then it would interest a lot more peopl.
All that while the AI pets are pumping most single target dps in the entire game XD BM skill floor and ceiling basically touching is one of the worst balancing problems that ever happened in this game
The Blitz change was implemented in the absolute worst way. Everyone complained about games where one team had 2 rogues and the other had zero. So instead of just saying "once the queue pops, split the teams as evenly as possible"...they made everyone essentially have a role queue. Like stealth melee dps all queue with each other: feral, assassination, outlaw all get grouped together. So if you can't find an even amount of your spec's role, your queue won't pop. It's making games more difficult to create, and inflating everyone's queue times accordingly. All they need to do is revert the change and put a conditional when the original algorithm generates a game: Split the teams as evenly as possible by role. Three rogues? Don't put them all on one team. 4 warriors? Should probably split that 2/2 per team. We don't need the queue system to only look for perfect games, just need to create less stupid matchups. But the priority should be lower queue times. No one wants to sit in long queues, I don't care how good the games are.
That's not how it works. I've done plenty of blitz matches with multiple rogues druids or otherwise on my team. It goes by class. You won't have 3 feral but you could have 1 feral a boomy and a druid. Still not perfect but not as bad as you made it seem
@fogismaximus it's exactly how it works. If you have a feral, the other team will have either a feral, assassination, or outlaw. It doesn't care about your current team comp, only that you are matched opposite someone from your role
How do you fix this? By forcing every new player to play healer only? There's no solution for this kind of thing. It's like League of Legends in the Support position. Nobody wants to play Support. The difference is that there are many more millions of people playing LoL compared to WoW
Solo shuffle ques suck but the BGs are super fast. I don’t think there is an issue with rewards. The game is boring. It takes 15 minutes to level then you can look forward to doing the same exact thing ad nauseam for the next two years. There is no immersion, no rpg left (the last great attempt was Legion), and the entire game and ALL classes have been completely rebuilt around M+.
@@Cashinn_Outt1754 Because it's a completely different perspective on what you want from the game. If you want it to be immersive and feel like a warrior or a mage, fine for you. I'm the opposite. I've been playing WoW for 13 years just for the arenas. Because I like to compete. Immersion, pets, mounts don't matter to me.
You are a streamer of WoW...its your Job. Comparing your fun to people that actually go to work and have minimal play time is a huge difference. PVP there is way too much now and it only benefits the top 1% of players not the masses.
@@Fen3rbahce You are the typical keyboard warrior. If i suck so be it. There is alot of people that suck at the game. That doesnt change the fact that there is too much for the masses. Maybe your the top 1%...other than that go fuck yourself
Came into the xpac excited for blitz because I love bgs and playing alts in them. I just dont have the time to keep playing dozens and dozens of games to get my elite sets. Did it on two toons and might do a third at the end of the patch, but between the queues and the low rating gains I find myself not even logging on even if balance feels solid. Glad people like you are bringing these up as massive issues since these issues have me and all my friends that pvp playing very little right now.
As a 21 year old, I can confidently say that, even though I wasn't there from the start of WoW, it's sad to see how noticeably the game has lost its identity. The Add-ons are overwhelming, the systems are confusing, button bloating is getting worse and worse, and the entry barriers are ridiculously high for someone trying to be competitive. And this is coming from someone who has played retail WoW for the last 8 years. Now, after trying Classic WoW, I'm shocked at how much better everything is - from professions to leveling to progression, and just the world in general feels more alive. From a competitive aspect, there is not much to write home about, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? WoW doesn't need to be hyper-competitive to shine - there's plenty of other games if you want "real" competitiveness. It's more about the journey, the sense of community, and the immersive world that we are all dragged into. In my opinion, Blizzard are designing their game for the hardcore sweat-lords, who have played the game for 50 years, and that's just not the way to go about it if you want longevity, and that's why the playerbase is declining for retail WoW.
As a healer (rshaman 2200xp) the amount of CC in the game atm is insane, micro cc and otherwise. Between the crazy CC and the damage, it makes for a terrible experience. Now on a border scale, why would I play other than climb rating which I can't even do atm, but outside of that there are no rewards to earn nothing to aim for.
I'm 43. I logged on one morning and saw the 20th anniversary celebration event going on and I realized, I've been playing this game for 20 years. 20 FN YEARS!!! Who does that?! I took a hard look at myself and realized that the only reason I log in now-a-days is FOMO. I have no friends I play with, I don't chat in guild. Largely, most everyone I see playing this game or i run into, I wouldn't want to converse with at the grocery store much less raid with their cringe ass. So, I've recently decided to take a step back, re-evaluate my relationship with this game and pursue something else. For instance, POE2 is out and I'm having a blast and haven't thought one second about logging into wow. Do I still love WoW? Yes, I want it to be great. But with my age, and lack of time, WoW isn't for me any longer. It's for career streamers that have a following, friends, time, and less than 4 kids, a wife and an ex wife to pay child support too lol.
PvP is shit, balancing is horrible like always and how long it takes to adjust classes takes too long, nerfs are either too heavy handed or don’t actually do anything, Buffs for bad specs takes far far too long and then either do nothing bc they don’t understand how to help it or over buff to then point where it’s absolutely bonkers. The rating shit in bgb is horrible so few rating gain for even a good mmr and waiting to get in bgb takes hours which I don’t have, then on top of that in high mmr games meta healers on one team none in other is guaranteed lose.
Just stopped playing 3 days ago. Im only playing bg blitz. Q times are 15-20-25 minutes, game lasts 10 and if you on lose streak you cant get rating back. I was 2430 cr and 2800+ mmr, was on lose streak and my cr become 2300 and mmr is 2100-2200. And its impossible pit of elo hell you cant get out. You get -9 -9 -9 and then -15 -15 -15 -15 -15 but if you are winning you can get +2 or +9. After loosing matches 30 on this high rating because my team was worse then random bg or enemy team were godlike or just had MW monk on flag bg and we had no FC I give up. The game is bad, bliz can enjoy themselves alone
I think WoW needs to start taking some risks. Maybe they could take from that Spellbreak team they hired a while back and just completely remove tab targeting.
When wow launched I was in high school. Now I’m 37, married, with two young kids. My play time has drastically changed over the years and honestly I don’t even have the patience or time to sit in 15-20 min queues. I want to log in and play. Other games can make this happen. Wow needs to evolve and respect players time. It can’t be that hard to form matches in a way that won’t screw anyone over.
Same, I was 19 or 20 when wow came out, loved it and played it for hours and hours in the barracks. Now I'm 41 with a career and kids, I can't sit for that kind of time and wait 20,30, or 40 min to play a 12 min match. I wanna play. Maybe they can do more cross server searches to get BG/ Arena poping faster or something.
I quit because blizzard can’t seem to ship a finished product. I want a game that doesn’t have so much structural issues where it feels like I’m waiting for the devs to fix issues. Time is too valuable
Que times, no creativity in gameplay, cutting corners in artwork specifically class armor and weapons artwork. No reason for people who aren’t hear score fiends to play really, the looks of the gear isn’t worth the hassle. Too many upgrade currencies which are a huge hassle and pain in the ass. No reason to do mythic dungeon without a Que, huge waste of time
I actually quit WoW and went to Guild Wars 2. I am 32 with responsibilities, and I can't keep up with the ques and time investment anymore. GW2 is like 2-3 minutes for ques and the barrier to entry for PvP is non existent. Log on and play when you want too, and what class you want to.
Quick fixes for PvP: - scrap CR, MMR should be the only thing that decides who you play and also how many wins you have to do to get rewards (ex. 1200 MMR -> you need 500 wins for elite set, 1000 wins for mount etc. 1400 MMR -> you need 400 wins fos set and so on, basically convert your MMR to "Arena points" you are getting for the win, and then set rewards at fixed number of points). That way everyone can achieve their goals, getting better shortens the grind, every game matters but is not so punishing (less toxicity, maybe ;D), - add 2v2 rated solo queue (with proper balancing), with either 2v2 dps or heal + dps, depending on the people in queue, guarantees fast queue times and no healer dependency. 2v2 is also more friendly to newer players since it's not as explosive and overwhelming as SS currently.
What’s killing wow is the community. M+ community is toxic. Make a mistake people freak out (even if it isn’t their key), nobody trust blizzard, when your favorite classes constantly get nerfed into the ground there’s no point in playing, for some reason they still can’t figure out how to balance, and most importantly people are tired of paying to beta test blizzards crap. Why would I pay them when I can play better games for free?
WoW might want to consider giving daily rewards for logging in similar in fashion to mobile games. After playing this game for 20 years, I find it easy to get bored or burnout with dungeons. PvP has been keeping my interest but the reward system needs improvement. I think Blizzard has improved a lot, looking forward to more positive changes.
The amount of times I've consistently gone 3-3 and lost rating.. or hardly gained rating.. the pros don't out weigh the cons. I stopped queuing and stopped playing
A lot of old players grew older but still playing like me. But the time is reduced from 10-12 hours per day, to 1-2 hours max. I might not even log for 3-5 days. I rly miss the old days but with family and everything going on i guess it is what it is. I also think there is low % new ppl joining...
Poe2 tomorrow! Lets gooo. Well and about wow. For a long time I feel that we just need wow 2. No tank/healer/dps and make it similar to guild wars for example or lost ark. Bosses deal dmg to all and you have to dodge spells. Make combat similar to plunder storm. It will be banger and solve most problems. ( queues, fun, skill ceiling etc.)
Once queue times exceed 5 minutes, I grow impatient. I don't like spending 40% of my time waiting to play. I sometimes do the mercenary thing for random battlegrounds just to get faster queues, knowing that my win rate will tank.
Not even just the MMR issue but with BGB, the lack of coordination with a lot of people is so frustrating. You would think that since the game is becoming more single player and multi-player options, why not have rated TEAM DEATHMATCH. Bg team vs bg team, all zug zug
I am a healer, I have healed since Wotlk, I love SS as a dps but I don't as a healer. In 3v3 I heal about 300 rating higher than I can as dps but it is almost the reverse in SS. I have tried every season that SS has been available but it always just feels bad to heal, im not sure what it is, maybe its when u do go 3/3 and can lose rating because of it. If there is a 0/6 dps, which is extremely common, then the healers go 3/3 and potentially lose rating or MMR but in the same lobby all the other dps gain rating. I personally feel like to make healing feel better they need to fix something with the way rating gains feels, until then i'll just stick to healing 2s/3s.
I've played WoW since BC. Admittedly an alt-oholic, I enjoy playing many classes and specs. I could probably push 2400 on a toon, but in general end 1800-2k on multiple. At the end of the day, you should always gain more rating than you lose. Yes, botting is an issue Blizz needs to solve, but if I win 2/6 of a SS lobby after waiting 30min and it's me as a caster vs Rogue/War/WW, sorry to voice for the casuals... but give me rating. I busted my arse for those two wins. I guess I just wish the system was more forgiving as a LONGTIME casual. I'm in my 40s and love WoW, but PvP MMR is really a tiring mechanic.
If they want people to play more 3v3 and 2v2, they need to stop punishing people who just want to play. You cannot get in a group if you are not within 30 cr of each other usually. They should remove these penalties so people don't lose 20 points a loss and win 8. That discourages people from wanting to play with people who are lower CR than them. You already have enough boxes to check, XP, composition, gearing, teamates who don't leave after first loss, etc... Players have given up on finding team mates for 3v3 because of the punishing CR system and just Q solo shuffle.
I think the biggest issue that people don’t want to play queue simulator anymore. People want to login and play the content they want to play. At the moment the only content that does this are delves. I think delves exposed one of the greatest weaknesses of the current game in all other content. Looking at people we tried to convince to start playing all of them stopped because of the barrier of entry. You can’t really play any endgame content without addons. People went back to FFXIV because it can be played without addons. Furthermore the lvling goes so quickly that people don’t really get to learn their class and get connected with the game. I watched how the children currently play games, they want to hop in, play the game and learn on the go. Content has to be easy to learn (and might be hard to master), should be easy to get into (so no long queues or long grinders to get into) and should be rewarding in one way of the other. I grew up with WoW so I know I have to fly around to find veins/ herbs. Children these days want more of a FFXIV convenience. Just go to a certain spot, start mining and have the first one respawn before you hit the last. They grow up with battle passes. You keep doing a certain content to finish your battle pass. As gear is so quickly replaced when a new season start, gear should be easier obtained and the battle pass should give the “real” rewards. I really don’t know. Maybe this will alienate the current player base. Or maybe this doesn’t work for a mmo. I think Blizzard should at least try something. Looking at the LFG for both M+ and delves the number of people playing went way down. Comparing LFG for M+ between now and Shadowlands which wasn’t a the greatest expansion makes me worried for WoW.
Make it so we earn valor style tokens from m+ and allow us to buy bis gear with those tokens. Kinda like the old days mixed with the broze bar thing from the last season of dragon flight. make like a m+2 give 1 token and m+3 you get 2 and so on and they can determine what the fair amount of tokens per piece of gear would be. It would be better than the pitiful 50g we get and no loot for majority of the m+ we do.
I've been raid logging for the better part of 4 weeks at this point and haven't been logging on for a majority of reasons. The biggest is I've completed all the goals I've set out to do this season (loremaster, AOTC, and all M+ teleports). The other reasons are unimpactful dailies, M+ affixes like challengers peril, inability to run m+ beyond +12 unless you're a meta spec (I know you can with any spec, but the effort required is increased tenfold), a relatively boring raid after first completion, and burnout due to the massive gilded crest grind. But even with the aforementioned issues, I'm fully planning to return for season 2. Will probably repeat the same cycle.
41 here, 20 years wow veteran. 5 year old and career, I solo play and do enough m+ to get mounts and rating, try and get 1800+ in what I can in solo and blitz. Don't raid anymore. Queue times suck. It's really hard to plan for a 30min queue. Ive been playing healer in solo for fast queues and mmr has been really hard to deal with. Going 3/3 and never climbing feels really bad. I should play better sure, but its also hard to play better when people leap in and die in an opener lol
The major issue is that if you aren’t 3100 and meta you will not get into a +12 or higher key. It is a queue simulator even if you have 2 chested all 11’s. Most players are just doing 10’s for the chest and then logging out of mythic+ for the week. If you aren’t meta you need to run your own key to do a 10. It has never been that way for the top weekly chest.
There are a lot of things that made me leave wow. And even more that keeps me from coming back. If I had to give reasons: -Everything is datamined before the game is even released => Min-maxing. -Too many bots and gold buyers. -"The world of warcraft" is no longer the world of Warcraft but the "world of WoW". I started WoW for the stories I played in the 3 RTS and their expansions. There are almost no story line or characters left from Warcraft's games. And the fews characters that remain no longer look like they were in Warcraft 2 or 3. -"i'm too old for this s**t". I can't play 5hours a day any more. -We're not playing an RPG anymore (In the sense that we create a character who is us and with whom we explore the world). There is cynicism on the player side, we all have between 5 and 15 max level characters with whom we switch.
As a solo shuffle healer, I feel that they need to give healers some rating for going 3:3 (its much more common for healers to get this than dps) or at least stop the MMR going down for it. I have 6 healers 2.1k+ but decided to quit healing and turned two of them to dps and got 2.1k+ in 70~90 rounds. As a healer, you can't really influence too much since even if you land a game winning CC, your dps can just break that CC or they just los you around the pillar and die. A good dps can just climb much faster than a good healer and this is a point of frustration for many healers. There is just no stress when I play a dps and I am actually enjoying all my shuffle matches now. Only downside is the long queue times but until this problem is solved, I don't think healers have much incentive to play.
All the things you say are true. I also think an under talked about phenomenon is the clutter of things like currencies, quest lines, gearing. It’s all overly convoluted now. Why do we need three different crests? Why do we need 738473 currencies for stuff? What was wrong with conquest and valor? Everything is just an exhausting minefield.
With kids, it's difficult to do something with a timed component that affects other players. Even back in TBC or Wrath if I needed to afk in a dungeon I could tell my pals to hold pulls for a few and it was fine. It's hard to queue shuffle or blitz for the same reason - long queues and a commitment to a good chunk of time when it pops. These days I either play 2s, which are fast games and short queues, or unrated BGs with friends so the only consequence to me having to afk suddenly is missing the rest of the BG.
PvP problems in my opinion: - Rewards attached to rating = rating is subjective to amount of players/time of season/how op is your class on said patch - Easier to get rating/gear at the end of season, like the game encourages me to pvp when season is about to end - Queue times, but guess the only thing we can do about that is encourage to play healer, or if you tie 3-3 you always gain a bit of rating instead of loosing mmr All this can be solved with a change on rewards, I would prefer it be like some sort of pass/renown grind where I winning gets me more points but losing still gives me something for the time investment, more points for playing healer, I would also like them to get rid of pvp gear and just have like a character tab where you "decide your pvp stats" We can keep the rating for prestige and glad mount, and probably would be good to have a recolor mount for 2400 on shuffle and bgblitz
But then you have to ask why, why are people prefering classic over retail. Personally I think its the actual game design, game is based to much around cc and interrupts which many do not find fun, needs to be based more around cds.
No one has 2-4 hours to play every single day, especially since so many young kids struggle for decent and gainful employment getting paid very little. Even at 4+ hours you only begin to touch the surface of WoW, which is exhausting on top of a job. Then try leveling an alt since it's so fun, but also daunting with the time sink + learning a new character. It becomes a full time job. Then you also have an older population where 80% of players are essentially pros and the gap widens even further, so it's not beginner friendly at all. Lastly, we went from strategy games to MMO's to short term matches of 5-8 minutes (Battle Royale games), so most kids only have an attention span of an 30-60 minutes or so (constantly needing dopamine hits) so it may just be a dying breed.
I'm about to be 44 and have 5 kids. I have pretty much always been a 2s player with my brother and a dozen or so people off my friends list. They list is almost empty now. They played the first few months of the season and weren't making rating gains and said they were over this nonsense. One of them was an insane rogue even pikaboo said was phenomenally good. I have always played every class to 1800 to get the MoG and see what I enjoy. Then I play like 2 toons to like 2k-2100ish, then usually the season is over, and I do it all again. I have limited windows when I can play, so sitting 20+ minute Qs is not the move. Also, needing to farm like 55k honor for gems on each toon is a barrier for altaholics like myself.
100% spot on. With wife / kids / business I don’t have time for the long q’s. Especially as a dps…tired of having to play a healer to have decent q times 😢
I think in general if the game is wanting to lean more casual with modes like SS and BG Blitz (good imo), the rating/reward structure needs to reflect that better. Other games with metal ranks and promotions usually have some kind of protection once you hit a rank. Not that you can't get demoted, but like say you break into Plat, if you lose the very next game you're probably not getting instantly demoted back to Gold. Some games specifically have a "demotion game" that you have to play. In WoW, the rating windows are so volatile yet so narrow. Especially with Shuffle effectively representing 6 matches. You could literally swing from the top of Duelist to the bottom of Rival in 2 bad lobbies. There's a very clear reason that most of the people who have the time straight up play multiple of the same toon and just leap frog rating. It's way too easy to lose a ton of progress in one shitty lobby. And the fact that you have to wait 30 minutes between them as a DPS just makes it even worse. Hell, there are times when I salty requeue, get into the next lobby 30 minutes later, and as soon as I start the match I immediately regret it. Maybe I'm tired, maybe I'm too tilted and I'm making mistakes, etc. But now I have to focus in for 5 more equally important matches or I'm literally throwing rating away. In any other game, you just stop queuing after that one bad match with minimal impact to your rating. In SS, you have to hope that tanking 6 matches doesn't bring you down 3 whole reward tiers. And keep in mind, it took you 5 lobbies across several hours of queuing to inch UP to that point to begin with, let alone any matchup/lobby luck you needed along the way (in a game where an unlucky lobby can just as easily yank that away). I know the old timers want to defend the sanctity of PvP rewards til their grave, but nobody wants the stress of not only having to be good, but be lucky, have a ton of free time not just to grind but to WAIT, and have the patience to crawl up the ladder at a snails pace just to have a CHANCE at a top level reward, which can also just as easily snowball out of reach in half the time. There's a reason people buy boosts. There's a reason RBGs became infested with win trading at the top. People want to protect the legitimacy of these rewards that have already been tainted by people who cheat the system for years. Let people earn the rewards. If the rewards APPEAR obtainable, more people will push for them, and the ladder will have more activity. All of the ladders are throttled around 1800 because a lot of people see 1800/full elite set as the only realistic goal they can set for themselves, so they just get it on multiple toons then never touch rated again that season. Shift some of those higher rewards down and more people will make a realistic goal of achieving them. The illusion/elite weapons are a great start, but even those I don't think a lot of people realize were shifted down. Make old elite sets obtainable for grinding at high rating. That will get people playing specs that they already EARNED the current season's rewards on. There are so many things they can do to encourage playing more, but the gatekeepers make it so hard for them to make dramatic changes like that.
The healing solo shuffle tied problem is so real. One DPS is always either too good or too bad for a lobby. Losing rating for a tie is just plain stupid. Therefore I haven't healed shuffle all xpac
I think that these numbers are actually really strong considering Delves and the shift to more open world content catering to casual players, as well as all the development into different versions of WoW. High-end gameplay isn't indicative of an IP's success..
We've had this type of video from Supa and Ven every season since S2, Blizzard have done nothing to help increase participation, no new or additional rewards to incentivise people to keep playing, no plunderstorm / battle pass style unlock system, no improvements to the MMR system. They've just conditioned players to gear up early, and come back for the last 4 weeks of the season to climb as much as possible. Their idea of player retention is shifting players to Classic and Hard-core.
The problems I see: The "Meta" means you can't get groups playing the spec/class you enjoy if it's not "meta" either in raid or mythic+, furthermore unbalanced PvP means you have to play certain specs to climb the ladder. They allowed boosting which also killed LFG and turned chat into pure spam. Playera don't have to interact or speak with each other anymore at all, even if you need an enchanter or something it's all automated now. Being in a guild doesn't really mean anything anymore, I'm in several guilds across different realms and I don't know who any of the GM's are, the only time guilds matter is for mythic raiding and mythic guilds literally want prio over real life which is too much. Doing something as simple as bringing back reasons to interact with each other so people can form friendships and associations and I guarantee the game will be 100% better.
I completely cut my play time when queues started getting out of hand for solo shuffle. Not only that, but it felt like so many games were lost and completely out of my control. Matches where i never die, but my dps partner dies and I lose rating/mmr. It’s just not fun and I don’t have time to be super sweaty at 1800 rating.
i myself just got bored of the repeat grind. the new expansion zones feel so pointless, so inudated with random chores, and pvp has literally no community besides people capping or sweats
The problem *as I see it* is the dungeon squish. There is too big of a gap between heroic dungeons and M0 dungeons. The gap from heroic dungeons then to M+ is huge. I saw this happen because I play as a healer (all of them). Overnight I went from being able to carry a newbie (tank or dps, did not matter) to NOT being able to carry anyone, period. I can barely keep myself alive and heal the team. I have to pay so much more attention to all the stuff that can kill me, and I know the dps and tanks are doing the same. I have to let dps die now, whereas I did not before. I cannot voice chat anyone through mechanics now. There is NO leeway for new players, none. Not for those who are new to WOW, not for those who are trying a new spec or role. I see healers and tanks just vanishing from view, so queues are longer and longer. When we were before the squish we could climb gradually the difficulty ladder, there was a progression. Now you have this huge leap to make, and there is no one to cushion you or coach you. Plus Remix "trained" a lot of players to be very very bad, with bad habits and bad manners. I see players pulling for tanks - that is bad. I see tank going too fast - that is bad. I see healers who cannot heal - that is bad. REVERT THE SQUISH.
its only part one of the soulsaga, wait for illidan pulling out that sword, numbers will be sky high :) n the reason the game is dying sometimes is bc of the community and the stupidity of players. blizzard did a great job with the war within !
People don't like to have to wait or work for something to happen. The main issue here being old people have real live issues to deal with and young people don't sit at a screen for long on something that's not really engaging and becomes monotonous. What engages people is the easiness you have to get into a match without having to wait for level, gear and redundant stuff to the main objective PvP. Getting results almost immediately like Mobas and FPS games. I know we chose wow because it is an mmorpg... now days more of an mmo and less of an rpg. For PvP and for attracting younger players there are concessions that WoW will have to make and it probably won't make any of us old players happy in a sense of how fast Toons are ready for PvP progression. PvE sits in one corner and PvP in the other being influenced by the main PVE attraction in class design and class balance. PvP tweaks have little consequence since the main objective is elsewhere and the player base is too small so they happen too little to address problems in the PvP community. The PVE player can't get fun fantasy specs nor the rpg progression cuz it would brake the game for PvPers and the same goes the other way around. Making the game unfair for people on both sides. Making a game that is a jack of all trades and master of none. It is not how old WoW is. But what is WoW being catered to is it Competitive play or RPG play this two alternatives do not go together and the people they attract are totally different. Keeping both communities making none happy has kept the game where it is. Although slowly improving it is not enough.
The only reason I slow down my playing is because as a PVPer who plays pretty chill and focuses on non-competitive battlegrounds, I honestly get sick of losing as horde. I can try my damndest but it seems no one else who plays horde has any interest in actually winning the battleground. It's got to be close to an 80% lose rate. I usually end up quitting for maybe 2 weeks and then coming back for one week and that cycle continues. I might have to just try bg blitz.
The problem I feel is that the mmr is fucked. It‘s just not fun to play vs. former/current glads starting at 1800-2xxx mmr. Like is the player pool so shallow that this has to be an issue?
Mythic + got to a point where if you don’t have a 2700 raider io you can’t join a +3 key and PvP is all professional boosters on a dozen accounts keeping their mmr at 1600-2100 to sale boosts gate keeping the people learning for years until they quit. All that’s left is hardcore “very high skill” players on a broken mmr. I don’t want to fight 10x glads when I’m trying to get into 1800 game play for the first time
They need better rewards for other playlists. 3v3 is great, but rbg, 2v2, blitz all should get reskins of whatever current season’s glad mount. Maybe even a non-rated season pass style mount you can earn by just getting wins over time. Just design a new mount each season and crap out some recolors. People need goals to chase. It would lower queue times and make the chases less impossible. I think a saddle-like item that could give old illusions or retired elite sets would massively fuel engagement too. And let’s face it, it’s only the glad mounts/titles are prestigious enough to remain sacred and unobtainable
Only a matter of time before Blizzard caves to the demands of a formal queue / MMR for M+. This will formally split M+ solo q players and premades and will further discourage healers and tanks to q solo and make the situation worse.
M+ is compounding its issues. Meta-chasing and high IO requirements make it tough for non-meta classes, even with solid runs under their belt-waiting 30+ minutes just to get into a +8 for gilded crests is ridiculous. On top of that, needing 90+ runs to fully upgrade with the new crest system feels like two steps back, even with warbands being a good alt-friendly feature. People are not playing alts. Also people bailing on keys seems to be an issue, which leans into people being super cautious with IO score and completions before they invite anyone. PvP isn't better. MMR inflation didn’t adapt to solo shuffle pulling players from ranked ladders. Now, with fewer players, you face AWC-level alts way too early, creating a bottleneck. Average PvPers should have a shot at 2400 without constantly running into forged gladiators. The system needs tuning to separate the top 1% from the rest.
I’m going to speak on this as someone who DOES NOT play retail but has given it adequate opportunities. In my opinion and in many of Classic players opinions retail is an MMO, not an MMORPG. It’s just simply not an RPG anymore and it hasn’t been for a long time. The sense of progression on retail does not enthrall the player to keep coming back for more. In older versions of wow, blizzard gave us a world and cool classes and races and said go now and figure it out. The game did not hold your hand other players did, it did not speed run you through and it required you to work with other players to progress forward. You can say it was too slow but it was an RPG. This is simply not the case anymore.
Me as a brewmaster monk or non meta healer getting auto declined as both 2700+ rating hard stuck on 11's is why I'm done for the season or until they do/add something for me to even want to come back
To be honest as a pvp player I would love to see finally some changes to pvp arenas mmr and rating system, because during the week as a working father I have a very limited time to play. And I have to admin that it's very frustraiting to play all the time against top players or old veterans and being stuck at the current rating 1900-2000 with low chance to get the best rewards. I am always trying to get better, but it's very hard to sync with other friends (3vs3 arenas) at similar position with families and limited amount of time schedule. The model of wow should be updated and be more friendly and approachable to older player base which are trying to chase their goals and rewards. I don't care if players reach 4000 rating and have limitless time for playing and grinding rank one. I just want to play, have fun get rewards which should be more obtainable for casual players/dads like me and stop twisting my head about things like why is the rating stuck and every arena feels like struggle for survival agains tier 1 players...because of this I don't see that much issue with skill gap, but more with time which is challenging as itself.
I think a huge part of this is layering and the amount of servers. Especially on classic, I think their should be no layering and 5 servers max so the world feels alive rather than their being nobody in any zone because you got layered on a already low pop server.
I’m older. Play retail. Solo delves and world quests are all I do at the moment. I’m new to the game and learning my character (ret Paladin). Learning the crafting / upgrade system and the lore. At the moment I’ll probable pvp before I start raids and M+.
I’m a very simple type of solo gamer . I usually do like 1-2 years on wow , then quit because I get bored , then switch off to league of legends and do the same for about 1-2 years and just keep rotating . Looking at how things have been going due to Que times for pvp and the gate keepers of mythic keys and all those players that ( think they’re too good ) for everyone else, I think it’s about that time .
I think the other thing to keep in mind is the game is actually designed around, and promotes the kind of up and down subscriptions you outlined. People get in and get the rewards they want and then they quit until the next season because they know blizzard will invalidate everything from the prior season with a reset so they have no reason to be invested or involved. Aside from that - again - outside of end game lobby mode - this game offers literally nothing anymore. I only do PvP on retail but even PvP is beginning to just feel like I’m paying $15/mo to play an inferior version of call of duty. In Legion, we had plenty of other content to do - long, lengthy questlines like the Balance of Power that gave us long term rewards to pursue. In classic there is another world pillar (Leveling and world content). Classic’s end game is actually its weak point to me. I vastly prefer retail end game. I’m not saying make leveling slower at all but I think they need to attach something like LOTRO leveling difficulties so we can earn cosmetics and have a more engaging experience outside of group content.
From a PvPer that has quit retail. Bring back pvp gear sets with the sockets in each piece and actual elite sets and let that be it.. i was so tired of borrowed power. Hated spending thousands of gold every new season on specific crafted pieces to compete, especially as a healer for precog. Hated that the green new season was better than my epic/BiS gear of last season gear. Hated revamped professions. Hated different tiers of the same items.. the price difference of a tier 2 to tier 3 enchant was thousands of gold differences at times, especially with wep enchants. Hated that the weekly WPvP quest gave you an offset item that set bonus didnt work in arenas/BGs. These are just some of the issues I had during Dragonflight, I havent bothered to buy TWW. Above all this, Make all classes fun! Stop swappin the spotlight around every 2 weeks.
I wish dungeons were playable by 1 tank, 1 healer and 1 DPS (scaling up to 3 DPS) so that I don't have to get random people dragging along with my friends.
Regularly experiencing 30-50 minute queues for BOTH solo shuffle AND BGB is a dealbreaker for me. Getting 2-3 10 minute matches over the course of an entire afternoon is a terrible time investment. I cannot think of a single other video game where the "actual" playtime is so incredibly low. You can spend 8 hours on the game and only "play" for less than 1, its crazy
34-2 kids: Played since Ragneros was the boss to beat haha. If they could find that line between us RBG’rs and true performance gamers I think it would benefit the game. If they made loot more available to RBG’rs and boosted the rewards for healers in general (across the board), that would be a good start. True performance gamers beat the RBG’rs everyday, so what’s the harm in noobs or Dad’s having conquest gear lol? Like give the Dad’s the Sword of a Thousand Truths! More maps too? I think we would all like that. Our age group is growing into this need to get on for an hour or two and random que up, so beef up a system towards that but still allow the hardcore gamers to get loot we lower gamers can’t get? Maybe gems or gear with different abilities? Something effective but not game breaking? I would also encourage the dev team to continue to continually class change and shake up the meta every 1-2 weeks because it makes it fun to play new classes. It also makes it fun to watch streamers go over class updates and predicting new metas every other week. It keeps me engaged in a game I love so much. I love WoW and I love the community! Thank you SupaTease for your content!
Queue time is the single biggest reason I cut back a lot of my wow time.
Exact this, i rather have bad comps in Blitz then queu time. Short queu times over everything else, i want to play the game, not sit hours in queu. Then you queu as a healer to see if things go better, but then you often end up going 3-3 (shuffle) and gain no rating. Want healers to queu? give us rating on 3-3 lobby's. Just fix queu times blizz, i don't care if comps are imbalanced or classes are to OP because of this or that; whatever, just fix the queueueueueueueueue times.
This. I spend 80% of my time in WoW sitting in dornogal in SS queue. LFG is a nightmare, i can’t get past 2200 in 3s as a gladiator, and shuffle ques are 15-60 minutes. My main is 2300cr and i sit in que for 60+ mins doing nothing
@@glennvanrymenant3118 the matchmaking is absolutely horrendous already as is, i can't imagine how god awful they would be if they "fixed" they queue times
Same 1 hr ques at 1700 is insane
@@vaylox09 I have 8 alts now, all i do is get to 2100ish and then make a new alt bc theres no ques and everyone is r1. I start my alt at 1800 mmr, get a fast first que, go 6-0, now im over 2k mmr and ques take forever and are mglads. So yeah 8 fully geared alts lol nothing better to do as a pvper
They changed the game from an MMO to a cosmetic store queue waiting simulator
Exactly
Im 30, have 2 kids and work as Engineer. Have at best 1-2 hours to play after kids bedtime. I only play wow and will always do.
My main problem is the mmr system and time in que. Thats why i rerolled to healer in DF to be able to get games in time.
If they fix healers MMR/rewards and balance the bottom healers. The que time will fix itself.
Leaving the only problem left to be the damn MMR system.
Note; ur assesment of the problem are spot on. The game is fun but me and my friends dont have the time or want to weste my time on shit games.
In Similar shoes. I have a lot of patience and played since TBC. But modern day LFG M+ induced more rage in me than all my previous WoW experiences combined.
Similar situation but imo they need to forsake the healer/dps dynamic. It's an antiquated game design. Just make all healers into augmentation evoker-type support dps classes that way we can just play 3v3 with just DPS and the queues will be fast.
Similar, however I can’t keep going back at this point. Everything continues to be toxic…systems don’t get fixed. There’s NO actual support or anyone you can actually talk to…they just don’t care anymore. So why should we? 🤷🏽♂️
Preach
Same, I tried playing healer but it bores me to death. My solution: sit in queue for shuffle / blitz with it minimised and play hardcore wow on the other tab 😂
3s has been the most awful experience even as a 8x gladiator im stuck at 2200CR i cant imagine how bad it is for non multi glad players
Just started trying to rank and im at like 1600, and i feel like people are way to good at what shouls be a bad rating. They sometimes do perfect cc chains, cant even move
Ya I’ve been duelist since I’ve played and can’t get past 2k. Let’s be serious though best time to push is at the end of the season, so that’s when I’ll play again day after day. People know this and do the same
The constant class changes have also cost me so much rating. One week your class can be tanky and aggressive, next week your a glass Canon. Add to that the mmr issue and it's really hard to enjoy
Chances are you are not playing with other human beings, you are against a of highly sophisticated Weak-aura abusers. Most of them are paid secretive projects, aka cheating. When your chaos bolt/glacier spike are steadily disjointed by shadowmeld. When your enemies consistently achieve max cleave and ST theoretical damage despite being very dumb otherwise.
Elephants are in the room just nobody talks about them.
it's really ragebaiting, either you stop taking the game serious by discovering your zen or you quit, is my xp as a near glad long time wow player
I just think there's too much community gate keeping when it comes to Mythic+. If we need to show our Credit Score, mothers maiden name, blood of the first born, just to get invited to a group, I am just going to do something else.
Yep exactly, and also gearing is worse then dragonflight for ppl who don't raid mythic and only do m+ content. 1 mythic track piece from rng vault per week ? While the ilvl / stats between hero track and myth track is way to huge.
Yeah, I want to play with players who knows what their doing and not literal rats. Sorry!
@@prod7906 I want to do m+ and am a multi glad on 7 classes, and top 100 in ss for 4 classes, across melee and range, and am getting denied to +3s and 2s because I don't have an io, I think I have pretty good knowledge on how stuff works considering.
Stop calling it gate keeping. There is nothing stopping you from making your own groups. Even better yet, play a tank or healer and always get invited. If you play a dps you have to compete with like 15 other dps the want to join as well and if there are 2 other dps with a better score than you they are generally going to get picked because people want the highest chance to succeed. This does not mean that the people that get picked over you are “better” but other than score there is nothing else to judge you by.
Pushing your own key is the best thing you can do if you are a dps, you can also invite who you want and see why people “gate keep”
There’s rats who are over 3k and yes it is gatekeepkng
Retail is not an MMO anymore, it's just a lobby game.
Spot on
Exactly this. WoW used to be a world, now it’s a game. I know, I know, maybe that’s my nostalgia kicking in, but I also think it’s true. The community aspect, the social aspect, the vibrancy of the world itself, is just very very different now. I guess it’s time to try classic. I know it won’t be the same as it was, but I feel like I want to give it one more go before I close the book on WoW.
I think its because we get older. I tried classic and all that stuff i liked back then, i hated. When i started playing Wow, i often played 8-14 hours a day, now im lucky if i get 4 hours and often i only got 1 hour. So i think "hey, lets do a fast as before dinner" but after a que for 35mins, i get in the lobby and then in the middle dinner is ready and i cant leave the shit and my wife gets annoyed, im a bad example for my kid and i feel bad for those things. So im sure its not less vibrant or stuff like that, you still have the same opportunities and even more, to be social, but you probably just dont have the time or energy for it
It’s a waste of time. Wait for people to play with while walking around doing nothing or play with dickheads who leave after one bad match. Community is terrible. Games terrible. It’s a second job and I’m not trying to work on it anymore. Save yourself
So true.
The recent $250 and $90 mounts were definitely them milking what is left imo. Sad to see it fall but as they say all good things.
It must be said that there is also a lot of people who play classic, anniversary and hardcore ...
Yeah, which makes you question the future of retail.
@MartialArtzz Even if Blizzard stopped patching for class tuning every fucking week ... there have been more updates from this exp, than from Vanilla to today. people get bored... There is a new meta every week ... I would say enough
@@mickycalafirst they bitched about not tuning enough now it’s bitching they tune too much comical
I think a lot more than people realize or want to admit. I can legitimately say even with phasing I’m seeing DRAMATICALLY more people on Classic than I’ve seen even during launch week of TWW.
Many prefer the classic style of gameplay as it feels a lot more accessible to new players and those who are getting older who have slowing reaction times.
I still play retail but the gameplay is frustraing, far too much cc and micro cc in the game, far too much interrupts required. The game needs to change, instead of a cc game style it needs to change back to a more cd style game, people hate when they can't play their character with ridiculous cc chains, cd style is much better and quicker.
The problem with WoW right now IMO is 3 major things
1. PvP queue times and rating gain problems / lack of rewards in anything other than 3s
2. M+ griefers who brick keys or leave when they get salty, wasting 30+ minutes of peoples time
3. "Microtransactions" that cost literally 90 dollars...
Here’s my experience (as a player of 10’years that works full time etc).
I get to play after work for maybe 2-3 hours of an afternoon/evening.
The only thing I enjoy is PVP (I play aff lock at 1900cr). Yesterday I sat 3 25-40min ques…..only to be queued into 3 prot paladin lobby’s!!
Out of the 18 shuffle games I won 7….lost rating, end up pissed off and with negative rating!
The fact I’m paying for this is crazy to me lol
You play one of the most represented specs so ofc que times will be low.
@@Anonymoussss0207cope take, spoken like someone who has nothing but time to waste
Thats why blitz Is better atm, less q time AND better rating
@@DamBWorkout There are some of us that dont really care about bg's and love the arena formats much more.
Problem is the aging population no longer looks at these things like jobs. It used to be you’d have to put in a certain amount of time but for me, as I got older, I noticed I enjoyed things more if I started doing them in smaller doses. I’m still on WoW everyday but sometimes I don’t even do that much
I don't have hours upon hours to put into the game, and even if I did, I don't want to. I'm not addicted to video games like that anymore. I'd like to log in and play some BGs and a couple of solo shuffles. The queues are too long, the gearing takes too long. Embellishments, gems, conquest... It's too much of an effort. I also tried healer and it's too stressful. Honestly, they need to get rid of healers completely. Nobody wants to play them. Make all the healer classes into augmentation evoker-type classes that allow dps but are still a support class. That way we can just play 3v3 full dps.
@@mithrandirthegrey7644nah getting rid of healers is whack
Had a blast running keys df s3, now its trash
I got back into PvP, it was fun. Then i realised i was waiting 10-25 minutes per que. Last night, i cancelled my subscription. I just dont have the time. Which really sucks.
@Supatease What you don’t realize is that people like you (R1, Multi Glad) kill PvP. Maybe not short term or monthly or anything, but the long term affect of high experience players only playing with high experience. My guess is that on your main character or main class you haven’t played any 3s seriously, or jumped into discord with people you don’t know, or haven’t known for years.
The community is killing the game.
I am part of the problem also. I’m also multi gladiator and it frustrates me to play with non gladiators, and I wish I could get some r1 team mates to improve, but as mentioned above… we all gate-keep people below us to have the chance to move up…
It’s refreshing to here a glad say this, most of them just say “getting glad is so easy it’s super accessible for anyone” no the fuck it isn’t, the lack of player base, elitist attitudes, and bad rating system make it so that only the top players get rewards
True! I lost my buddies now I have no patience to play with new players that have no experience, but im not good enough to play with r1 people, so we are all stuck at some point.
It's been dead for years
@@zoovaado7759 I’m in the same boat just 1 league above. I’ve always wanted R1, but no R1 takes a chance on a non-R1.
@@andrepinheiro8338 same boat brother
1k blitz is shockingly low
Great game mode but they need to do something to speed up ques. They should just make it so you can get lobbies with one or no healers vs one or no healers equally mirrored just to speed up the ques. Also better reward structure is needed for blitz as well
Blizz needs to add a auto group finder for mythic plus. That will prevent gatekeeping.
Yeah with mmr would be fine and ban toxic asholes easy fix
Actually it wouldn't, if it was my key and people were automatically plugged in I'd kick instantly if the io or spec were wrong. BTW me wanting to exorcise control over group comp isn't toxic. Expecting a free carry is.
@@jaypietersen6093They could keep current M+ rules and have it automated based on your score. Kicking someone instantly would just mean you deplete your key.
@@jc6087 yeah, so carry or deplete. M+ would die in a day. Not a good solution. People being less bad is the answer, but no one has accountability. Bad call my guy.
@@ssv-y2q could I get a ranged dps banned if they don’t interrupt a ranged caster? Could I get a warrior banned if they don’t pull enough dps? Could i get dps banned if dps start attacking mobs while I’m trying to gather a few packs of adds together? All of these things would be an issue in a solo que environment just the same as they are now. If I report you for not getting any inturrupts there should also be punishment because you are being a toxic asshole for not doing your part.
I’d give solo queue a week before the yt videos and forum rage started. Until the player base realizes that knowing the dungeons and what happens in them is the fastest way to get gear out of them adding a solo que won’t fix anything.
The problem with BGB is there is no incentive to play past 2400 unless your going for a rank 1 title. Most people got their BGB 2400 in week 2-4 of the season. Blizz needs to add recolor glad mounts for other brackets, maybe tokens for old elite sets, idk something. Maybe extra cosmetic sets for healers. It’s so easy to make incentives for people to grind and keep playing but they just don’t do it. It took a guy on Reddit 15 minutes to design an insane looking 2400 mount for BGB. like wtf is blizz doing
why do they struggle so much fixing the PVP side? It seems they could implement pretty much any change rapidly, to see how it works.
Small Indie company
They do that all the time. That's not the answer. They just need good patch, and leave it alone. So we don't have to respec all the time and play in the same season where people push rank 1 with OP spec that doesn't even exist anymore. Reaching an untouchable status on the ladder. That's pretty wack.
Love PvP on WoW, but it always felt impossible to get into. Between the gear grind and the steppe learning curve I just gave up.
Gear grind has never been easier. Park your character in a PVP zone and turn your volume up for the war crates, get fully geared in a day.
The gap between the top and the bottom is absolutely humongous. As an 1800 and below player, I feel like I have 0 chance when I play a high player in an alt. I know “git good” is incoming, but constant ass beatings without being able to move or being 100-0 in 2 seconds isn’t fun at all.
@ if you are alliance maybe lol as a horde, there are immediately 100 alliance vs 3 horde.
But even when I did get geared, then you need add ons to track everything that’s going on. There’s a new game out called Ring of Titan that I’ve been playing around with and it gives that arena feel without the gear grind. I’m a long time wow player, but taking a break and not being consistent makes you feel so far behind. That’s probably why I’m addicted to league now
wow is too complicated for me already got a job don't need another one to grind when playing a game lol
It's the subscription model that gets in the way. Ain't no new bloods wanna pay that just to be in que
No new bloods want to play period
nice to see new bloods smarter than us old bloods who pay sub for a game we don't enjoy
Inconsistent rating from season to season, lack of rewards, long queues times, healers in shuffle are all big issues for sure!
Its too high apm now, dps is fine, healing is too much
@@ssv-y2q that’s irrelevant
@@alexanderhansen1161 Disagree
Doesn’t need help. The game is just cooked. You literally have SIX versions of classic. Plus retail. They took an already dwindling player base and split it six ways more or less. Truthfully in 2024 people don’t have the attention span to lock in and commit for such a long grind in classic or wait a long que time in retail. Only the 25+ age players really enjoy classic. Just make one game and make it really good for everyone
The problem is 2-3 weeks into any patch every key is 15+ and no one takes anything other than the sweaty classes and every pvp group is 1400cr with "glad xp only" in the description
facts, the game is only for only wow players who mythic raid. I don't want to mythic raid
@ssv-y2q Max has talked about it before on the PoddyC, if they make gear rewards stop at heroic and make mythic just cosmetics game health would immediately improve
15 minute solo shuffle queue is unsustainable. I rather quick join a MOBA or COD game to play casually.
M+ has become way too elitist now, the crest grind is horrendous as is pugging. It’s too difficult for most - and I know “make your own group” etc are coming, but the numbers speak for themselves. They need to make delves scale higher and provide better rewards.
It's impossible to be a m+ pug only now its not worth it, i'm playing to to have fun. And no i i'm not gonna join a guild good for them
@@MrJeremydb91 delves aren’t fun
@ well fun is subjective. I’d rather do a delve than m+ or raid raid right now
@@MrJeremydb91 I’d rather do torghast than a delve
They need a LFM+. It’s the natural thing to come next in their game model.
Unavoidable 100000yards ranged pet stun, into unmissable unbreakable undispellable trap, into unmissable undispellable (cause then it auto pops) silence, into dr scatter into whatever 2 other players have, on a 45 sec cd is the single reason the game is dieing. No single healer (r1, glad,1600 xp) is able to continue coping with this. The amount of cc in the game, and on some classes alone, is absolutely absurd.
I agree, the CC style gameplay is not welcoming to newer players or casuals, it's also not very fun not being able to control your character for so long. If they focused more on a cooldown focus gameplay than crowd control then it would interest a lot more peopl.
All that while the AI pets are pumping most single target dps in the entire game XD BM skill floor and ceiling basically touching is one of the worst balancing problems that ever happened in this game
The Blitz change was implemented in the absolute worst way. Everyone complained about games where one team had 2 rogues and the other had zero. So instead of just saying "once the queue pops, split the teams as evenly as possible"...they made everyone essentially have a role queue. Like stealth melee dps all queue with each other: feral, assassination, outlaw all get grouped together. So if you can't find an even amount of your spec's role, your queue won't pop. It's making games more difficult to create, and inflating everyone's queue times accordingly.
All they need to do is revert the change and put a conditional when the original algorithm generates a game: Split the teams as evenly as possible by role. Three rogues? Don't put them all on one team. 4 warriors? Should probably split that 2/2 per team. We don't need the queue system to only look for perfect games, just need to create less stupid matchups. But the priority should be lower queue times. No one wants to sit in long queues, I don't care how good the games are.
That's not how it works. I've done plenty of blitz matches with multiple rogues druids or otherwise on my team. It goes by class. You won't have 3 feral but you could have 1 feral a boomy and a druid. Still not perfect but not as bad as you made it seem
@fogismaximus it's exactly how it works. If you have a feral, the other team will have either a feral, assassination, or outlaw. It doesn't care about your current team comp, only that you are matched opposite someone from your role
Queue times for solo shuffle/bgs, and mmr and lack of opportunity for in game rewards. They need to fix this however they have to
How do you fix this? By forcing every new player to play healer only? There's no solution for this kind of thing. It's like League of Legends in the Support position. Nobody wants to play Support. The difference is that there are many more millions of people playing LoL compared to WoW
Inject 500 mmr all at once @@shaoran27
Solo shuffle ques suck but the BGs are super fast. I don’t think there is an issue with rewards.
The game is boring. It takes 15 minutes to level then you can look forward to doing the same exact thing ad nauseam for the next two years.
There is no immersion, no rpg left (the last great attempt was Legion), and the entire game and ALL classes have been completely rebuilt around M+.
@@Cashinn_Outt1754 Because it's a completely different perspective on what you want from the game. If you want it to be immersive and feel like a warrior or a mage, fine for you. I'm the opposite. I've been playing WoW for 13 years just for the arenas. Because I like to compete. Immersion, pets, mounts don't matter to me.
@ All I do on retail is PvP. Everything else is just bad on retail. The gearing even for PvE is just horrible.
You are a streamer of WoW...its your Job. Comparing your fun to people that actually go to work and have minimal play time is a huge difference. PVP there is way too much now and it only benefits the top 1% of players not the masses.
There isn’t way too much you just suck at the game .
I don't like the new gameplay personally. It's ok but it was better before without haste and 150 apm
@@Fen3rbahce You are the typical keyboard warrior. If i suck so be it. There is alot of people that suck at the game. That doesnt change the fact that there is too much for the masses. Maybe your the top 1%...other than that go fuck yourself
@@Fen3rbahce And this right here is a prime example of why this community sucks.
Make it less complicated and more people would probably play it
Came into the xpac excited for blitz because I love bgs and playing alts in them. I just dont have the time to keep playing dozens and dozens of games to get my elite sets. Did it on two toons and might do a third at the end of the patch, but between the queues and the low rating gains I find myself not even logging on even if balance feels solid. Glad people like you are bringing these up as massive issues since these issues have me and all my friends that pvp playing very little right now.
11.2 road map says something about changing that rating system
Source?
@L4K123 Google road map 2025 and check 11.2
As a 21 year old, I can confidently say that, even though I wasn't there from the start of WoW, it's sad to see how noticeably the game has lost its identity. The Add-ons are overwhelming, the systems are confusing, button bloating is getting worse and worse, and the entry barriers are ridiculously high for someone trying to be competitive. And this is coming from someone who has played retail WoW for the last 8 years. Now, after trying Classic WoW, I'm shocked at how much better everything is - from professions to leveling to progression, and just the world in general feels more alive. From a competitive aspect, there is not much to write home about, but that's kind of the point, isn't it? WoW doesn't need to be hyper-competitive to shine - there's plenty of other games if you want "real" competitiveness. It's more about the journey, the sense of community, and the immersive world that we are all dragged into.
In my opinion, Blizzard are designing their game for the hardcore sweat-lords, who have played the game for 50 years, and that's just not the way to go about it if you want longevity, and that's why the playerbase is declining for retail WoW.
As a healer (rshaman 2200xp) the amount of CC in the game atm is insane, micro cc and otherwise. Between the crazy CC and the damage, it makes for a terrible experience. Now on a border scale, why would I play other than climb rating which I can't even do atm, but outside of that there are no rewards to earn nothing to aim for.
I'm 43. I logged on one morning and saw the 20th anniversary celebration event going on and I realized, I've been playing this game for 20 years. 20 FN YEARS!!! Who does that?! I took a hard look at myself and realized that the only reason I log in now-a-days is FOMO. I have no friends I play with, I don't chat in guild. Largely, most everyone I see playing this game or i run into, I wouldn't want to converse with at the grocery store much less raid with their cringe ass. So, I've recently decided to take a step back, re-evaluate my relationship with this game and pursue something else. For instance, POE2 is out and I'm having a blast and haven't thought one second about logging into wow. Do I still love WoW? Yes, I want it to be great. But with my age, and lack of time, WoW isn't for me any longer. It's for career streamers that have a following, friends, time, and less than 4 kids, a wife and an ex wife to pay child support too lol.
PvP is shit, balancing is horrible like always and how long it takes to adjust classes takes too long, nerfs are either too heavy handed or don’t actually do anything, Buffs for bad specs takes far far too long and then either do nothing bc they don’t understand how to help it or over buff to then point where it’s absolutely bonkers. The rating shit in bgb is horrible so few rating gain for even a good mmr and waiting to get in bgb takes hours which I don’t have, then on top of that in high mmr games meta healers on one team none in other is guaranteed lose.
Just stopped playing 3 days ago. Im only playing bg blitz. Q times are 15-20-25 minutes, game lasts 10 and if you on lose streak you cant get rating back.
I was 2430 cr and 2800+ mmr, was on lose streak and my cr become 2300 and mmr is 2100-2200. And its impossible pit of elo hell you cant get out. You get -9 -9 -9 and then -15 -15 -15 -15 -15 but if you are winning you can get +2 or +9.
After loosing matches 30 on this high rating because my team was worse then random bg or enemy team were godlike or just had MW monk on flag bg and we had no FC I give up. The game is bad, bliz can enjoy themselves alone
unsubbing would hurt blizz I guess
I think WoW needs to start taking some risks. Maybe they could take from that Spellbreak team they hired a while back and just completely remove tab targeting.
When wow launched I was in high school. Now I’m 37, married, with two young kids. My play time has drastically changed over the years and honestly I don’t even have the patience or time to sit in 15-20 min queues. I want to log in and play.
Other games can make this happen. Wow needs to evolve and respect players time. It can’t be that hard to form matches in a way that won’t screw anyone over.
Same, I was 19 or 20 when wow came out, loved it and played it for hours and hours in the barracks. Now I'm 41 with a career and kids, I can't sit for that kind of time and wait 20,30, or 40 min to play a 12 min match. I wanna play. Maybe they can do more cross server searches to get BG/ Arena poping faster or something.
Name one game
@draincatYT are you serious?
@@draincatYT Dota 2, Valorant, CS, Fortnite, League. you thick in the head?
@@pudgeypigeonprobably
I quit because blizzard can’t seem to ship a finished product. I want a game that doesn’t have so much structural issues where it feels like I’m waiting for the devs to fix issues. Time is too valuable
Que times, no creativity in gameplay, cutting corners in artwork specifically class armor and weapons artwork. No reason for people who aren’t hear score fiends to play really, the looks of the gear isn’t worth the hassle. Too many upgrade currencies which are a huge hassle and pain in the ass. No reason to do mythic dungeon without a Que, huge waste of time
I actually quit WoW and went to Guild Wars 2.
I am 32 with responsibilities, and I can't keep up with the ques and time investment anymore.
GW2 is like 2-3 minutes for ques and the barrier to entry for PvP is non existent. Log on and play when you want too, and what class you want to.
Quick fixes for PvP:
- scrap CR, MMR should be the only thing that decides who you play and also how many wins you have to do to get rewards (ex. 1200 MMR -> you need 500 wins for elite set, 1000 wins for mount etc. 1400 MMR -> you need 400 wins fos set and so on, basically convert your MMR to "Arena points" you are getting for the win, and then set rewards at fixed number of points). That way everyone can achieve their goals, getting better shortens the grind, every game matters but is not so punishing (less toxicity, maybe ;D),
- add 2v2 rated solo queue (with proper balancing), with either 2v2 dps or heal + dps, depending on the people in queue, guarantees fast queue times and no healer dependency. 2v2 is also more friendly to newer players since it's not as explosive and overwhelming as SS currently.
What’s killing wow is the community. M+ community is toxic. Make a mistake people freak out (even if it isn’t their key), nobody trust blizzard, when your favorite classes constantly get nerfed into the ground there’s no point in playing, for some reason they still can’t figure out how to balance, and most importantly people are tired of paying to beta test blizzards crap. Why would I pay them when I can play better games for free?
WoW might want to consider giving daily rewards for logging in similar in fashion to mobile games. After playing this game for 20 years, I find it easy to get bored or burnout with dungeons. PvP has been keeping my interest but the reward system needs improvement. I think Blizzard has improved a lot, looking forward to more positive changes.
Are you a professional troll? Does it pay well?
I’m a healer who doesn’t play anymore cause of SS. Your idea for healer tie breaker would bring me back tonight.
The amount of times I've consistently gone 3-3 and lost rating.. or hardly gained rating.. the pros don't out weigh the cons. I stopped queuing and stopped playing
A lot of old players grew older but still playing like me. But the time is reduced from 10-12 hours per day, to 1-2 hours max. I might not even log for 3-5 days. I rly miss the old days but with family and everything going on i guess it is what it is. I also think there is low % new ppl joining...
Poe2 tomorrow! Lets gooo. Well and about wow. For a long time I feel that we just need wow 2. No tank/healer/dps and make it similar to guild wars for example or lost ark. Bosses deal dmg to all and you have to dodge spells. Make combat similar to plunder storm. It will be banger and solve most problems. ( queues, fun, skill ceiling etc.)
I'm just over WoW entirely. I come back from time to time but even when I do come back I know it's an increasingly fleeting experience.
Once queue times exceed 5 minutes, I grow impatient. I don't like spending 40% of my time waiting to play. I sometimes do the mercenary thing for random battlegrounds just to get faster queues, knowing that my win rate will tank.
Not even just the MMR issue but with BGB, the lack of coordination with a lot of people is so frustrating. You would think that since the game is becoming more single player and multi-player options, why not have rated TEAM DEATHMATCH. Bg team vs bg team, all zug zug
Fr!! I'll spend hours doing tdm on apex
I am a healer, I have healed since Wotlk, I love SS as a dps but I don't as a healer. In 3v3 I heal about 300 rating higher than I can as dps but it is almost the reverse in SS. I have tried every season that SS has been available but it always just feels bad to heal, im not sure what it is, maybe its when u do go 3/3 and can lose rating because of it. If there is a 0/6 dps, which is extremely common, then the healers go 3/3 and potentially lose rating or MMR but in the same lobby all the other dps gain rating. I personally feel like to make healing feel better they need to fix something with the way rating gains feels, until then i'll just stick to healing 2s/3s.
I've played WoW since BC. Admittedly an alt-oholic, I enjoy playing many classes and specs. I could probably push 2400 on a toon, but in general end 1800-2k on multiple. At the end of the day, you should always gain more rating than you lose. Yes, botting is an issue Blizz needs to solve, but if I win 2/6 of a SS lobby after waiting 30min and it's me as a caster vs Rogue/War/WW, sorry to voice for the casuals... but give me rating. I busted my arse for those two wins. I guess I just wish the system was more forgiving as a LONGTIME casual. I'm in my 40s and love WoW, but PvP MMR is really a tiring mechanic.
If they want people to play more 3v3 and 2v2, they need to stop punishing people who just want to play. You cannot get in a group if you are not within 30 cr of each other usually. They should remove these penalties so people don't lose 20 points a loss and win 8. That discourages people from wanting to play with people who are lower CR than them. You already have enough boxes to check, XP, composition, gearing, teamates who don't leave after first loss, etc... Players have given up on finding team mates for 3v3 because of the punishing CR system and just Q solo shuffle.
I think the biggest issue that people don’t want to play queue simulator anymore. People want to login and play the content they want to play. At the moment the only content that does this are delves. I think delves exposed one of the greatest weaknesses of the current game in all other content.
Looking at people we tried to convince to start playing all of them stopped because of the barrier of entry. You can’t really play any endgame content without addons. People went back to FFXIV because it can be played without addons. Furthermore the lvling goes so quickly that people don’t really get to learn their class and get connected with the game.
I watched how the children currently play games, they want to hop in, play the game and learn on the go. Content has to be easy to learn (and might be hard to master), should be easy to get into (so no long queues or long grinders to get into) and should be rewarding in one way of the other. I grew up with WoW so I know I have to fly around to find veins/ herbs. Children these days want more of a FFXIV convenience. Just go to a certain spot, start mining and have the first one respawn before you hit the last.
They grow up with battle passes. You keep doing a certain content to finish your battle pass. As gear is so quickly replaced when a new season start, gear should be easier obtained and the battle pass should give the “real” rewards. I really don’t know. Maybe this will alienate the current player base. Or maybe this doesn’t work for a mmo.
I think Blizzard should at least try something. Looking at the LFG for both M+ and delves the number of people playing went way down. Comparing LFG for M+ between now and Shadowlands which wasn’t a the greatest expansion makes me worried for WoW.
Make it so we earn valor style tokens from m+ and allow us to buy bis gear with those
tokens. Kinda like the old days mixed with the broze bar thing from the last season of dragon flight. make like a m+2 give 1 token and m+3 you get 2 and so on and they can determine what the fair amount of tokens per piece of gear would be. It would be better than the pitiful 50g we get and no loot for majority of the m+ we do.
I've been raid logging for the better part of 4 weeks at this point and haven't been logging on for a majority of reasons. The biggest is I've completed all the goals I've set out to do this season (loremaster, AOTC, and all M+ teleports).
The other reasons are unimpactful dailies, M+ affixes like challengers peril, inability to run m+ beyond +12 unless you're a meta spec (I know you can with any spec, but the effort required is increased tenfold), a relatively boring raid after first completion, and burnout due to the massive gilded crest grind.
But even with the aforementioned issues, I'm fully planning to return for season 2. Will probably repeat the same cycle.
I do think you are right at the moment, the game is very fun!! Frost Mage, let's go. I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
41 here, 20 years wow veteran. 5 year old and career, I solo play and do enough m+ to get mounts and rating, try and get 1800+ in what I can in solo and blitz. Don't raid anymore. Queue times suck. It's really hard to plan for a 30min queue. Ive been playing healer in solo for fast queues and mmr has been really hard to deal with. Going 3/3 and never climbing feels really bad. I should play better sure, but its also hard to play better when people leap in and die in an opener lol
The major issue is that if you aren’t 3100 and meta you will not get into a +12 or higher key. It is a queue simulator even if you have 2 chested all 11’s. Most players are just doing 10’s for the chest and then logging out of mythic+ for the week. If you aren’t meta you need to run your own key to do a 10. It has never been that way for the top weekly chest.
There are a lot of things that made me leave wow. And even more that keeps me from coming back. If I had to give reasons:
-Everything is datamined before the game is even released => Min-maxing.
-Too many bots and gold buyers.
-"The world of warcraft" is no longer the world of Warcraft but the "world of WoW". I started WoW for the stories I played in the 3 RTS and their expansions. There are almost no story line or characters left from Warcraft's games. And the fews characters that remain no longer look like they were in Warcraft 2 or 3.
-"i'm too old for this s**t". I can't play 5hours a day any more.
-We're not playing an RPG anymore (In the sense that we create a character who is us and with whom we explore the world). There is cynicism on the player side, we all have between 5 and 15 max level characters with whom we switch.
“Have their life together, unlike me” had me rolling ngl
As a solo shuffle healer, I feel that they need to give healers some rating for going 3:3 (its much more common for healers to get this than dps) or at least stop the MMR going down for it. I have 6 healers 2.1k+ but decided to quit healing and turned two of them to dps and got 2.1k+ in 70~90 rounds. As a healer, you can't really influence too much since even if you land a game winning CC, your dps can just break that CC or they just los you around the pillar and die. A good dps can just climb much faster than a good healer and this is a point of frustration for many healers. There is just no stress when I play a dps and I am actually enjoying all my shuffle matches now. Only downside is the long queue times but until this problem is solved, I don't think healers have much incentive to play.
All the things you say are true. I also think an under talked about phenomenon is the clutter of things like currencies, quest lines, gearing. It’s all overly convoluted now. Why do we need three different crests? Why do we need 738473 currencies for stuff? What was wrong with conquest and valor? Everything is just an exhausting minefield.
With kids, it's difficult to do something with a timed component that affects other players. Even back in TBC or Wrath if I needed to afk in a dungeon I could tell my pals to hold pulls for a few and it was fine. It's hard to queue shuffle or blitz for the same reason - long queues and a commitment to a good chunk of time when it pops. These days I either play 2s, which are fast games and short queues, or unrated BGs with friends so the only consequence to me having to afk suddenly is missing the rest of the BG.
PvP problems in my opinion:
- Rewards attached to rating = rating is subjective to amount of players/time of season/how op is your class on said patch
- Easier to get rating/gear at the end of season, like the game encourages me to pvp when season is about to end
- Queue times, but guess the only thing we can do about that is encourage to play healer, or if you tie 3-3 you always gain a bit of rating instead of loosing mmr
All this can be solved with a change on rewards, I would prefer it be like some sort of pass/renown grind where I winning gets me more points but losing still gives me something for the time investment, more points for playing healer, I would also like them to get rid of pvp gear and just have like a character tab where you "decide your pvp stats"
We can keep the rating for prestige and glad mount, and probably would be good to have a recolor mount for 2400 on shuffle and bgblitz
its also worth noting that a ton of people are playing classic right now
But then you have to ask why, why are people prefering classic over retail.
Personally I think its the actual game design, game is based to much around cc and interrupts which many do not find fun, needs to be based more around cds.
No one has 2-4 hours to play every single day, especially since so many young kids struggle for decent and gainful employment getting paid very little. Even at 4+ hours you only begin to touch the surface of WoW, which is exhausting on top of a job. Then try leveling an alt since it's so fun, but also daunting with the time sink + learning a new character. It becomes a full time job. Then you also have an older population where 80% of players are essentially pros and the gap widens even further, so it's not beginner friendly at all. Lastly, we went from strategy games to MMO's to short term matches of 5-8 minutes (Battle Royale games), so most kids only have an attention span of an 30-60 minutes or so (constantly needing dopamine hits) so it may just be a dying breed.
I'm about to be 44 and have 5 kids. I have pretty much always been a 2s player with my brother and a dozen or so people off my friends list. They list is almost empty now. They played the first few months of the season and weren't making rating gains and said they were over this nonsense. One of them was an insane rogue even pikaboo said was phenomenally good. I have always played every class to 1800 to get the MoG and see what I enjoy. Then I play like 2 toons to like 2k-2100ish, then usually the season is over, and I do it all again. I have limited windows when I can play, so sitting 20+ minute Qs is not the move. Also, needing to farm like 55k honor for gems on each toon is a barrier for altaholics like myself.
100% spot on. With wife / kids / business I don’t have time for the long q’s. Especially as a dps…tired of having to play a healer to have decent q times 😢
I think in general if the game is wanting to lean more casual with modes like SS and BG Blitz (good imo), the rating/reward structure needs to reflect that better. Other games with metal ranks and promotions usually have some kind of protection once you hit a rank. Not that you can't get demoted, but like say you break into Plat, if you lose the very next game you're probably not getting instantly demoted back to Gold. Some games specifically have a "demotion game" that you have to play. In WoW, the rating windows are so volatile yet so narrow. Especially with Shuffle effectively representing 6 matches. You could literally swing from the top of Duelist to the bottom of Rival in 2 bad lobbies. There's a very clear reason that most of the people who have the time straight up play multiple of the same toon and just leap frog rating. It's way too easy to lose a ton of progress in one shitty lobby. And the fact that you have to wait 30 minutes between them as a DPS just makes it even worse. Hell, there are times when I salty requeue, get into the next lobby 30 minutes later, and as soon as I start the match I immediately regret it. Maybe I'm tired, maybe I'm too tilted and I'm making mistakes, etc. But now I have to focus in for 5 more equally important matches or I'm literally throwing rating away. In any other game, you just stop queuing after that one bad match with minimal impact to your rating. In SS, you have to hope that tanking 6 matches doesn't bring you down 3 whole reward tiers. And keep in mind, it took you 5 lobbies across several hours of queuing to inch UP to that point to begin with, let alone any matchup/lobby luck you needed along the way (in a game where an unlucky lobby can just as easily yank that away).
I know the old timers want to defend the sanctity of PvP rewards til their grave, but nobody wants the stress of not only having to be good, but be lucky, have a ton of free time not just to grind but to WAIT, and have the patience to crawl up the ladder at a snails pace just to have a CHANCE at a top level reward, which can also just as easily snowball out of reach in half the time. There's a reason people buy boosts. There's a reason RBGs became infested with win trading at the top. People want to protect the legitimacy of these rewards that have already been tainted by people who cheat the system for years. Let people earn the rewards. If the rewards APPEAR obtainable, more people will push for them, and the ladder will have more activity. All of the ladders are throttled around 1800 because a lot of people see 1800/full elite set as the only realistic goal they can set for themselves, so they just get it on multiple toons then never touch rated again that season. Shift some of those higher rewards down and more people will make a realistic goal of achieving them. The illusion/elite weapons are a great start, but even those I don't think a lot of people realize were shifted down. Make old elite sets obtainable for grinding at high rating. That will get people playing specs that they already EARNED the current season's rewards on. There are so many things they can do to encourage playing more, but the gatekeepers make it so hard for them to make dramatic changes like that.
The healing solo shuffle tied problem is so real. One DPS is always either too good or too bad for a lobby. Losing rating for a tie is just plain stupid. Therefore I haven't healed shuffle all xpac
1v1 bracket, rated or unrated, would be a pleasant bracket to learn the game without weighing your team down.
I think that these numbers are actually really strong considering Delves and the shift to more open world content catering to casual players, as well as all the development into different versions of WoW. High-end gameplay isn't indicative of an IP's success..
We've had this type of video from Supa and Ven every season since S2, Blizzard have done nothing to help increase participation, no new or additional rewards to incentivise people to keep playing, no plunderstorm / battle pass style unlock system, no improvements to the MMR system.
They've just conditioned players to gear up early, and come back for the last 4 weeks of the season to climb as much as possible.
Their idea of player retention is shifting players to Classic and Hard-core.
The problems I see:
The "Meta" means you can't get groups playing the spec/class you enjoy if it's not "meta" either in raid or mythic+, furthermore unbalanced PvP means you have to play certain specs to climb the ladder.
They allowed boosting which also killed LFG and turned chat into pure spam.
Playera don't have to interact or speak with each other anymore at all, even if you need an enchanter or something it's all automated now. Being in a guild doesn't really mean anything anymore, I'm in several guilds across different realms and I don't know who any of the GM's are, the only time guilds matter is for mythic raiding and mythic guilds literally want prio over real life which is too much.
Doing something as simple as bringing back reasons to interact with each other so people can form friendships and associations and I guarantee the game will be 100% better.
I completely cut my play time when queues started getting out of hand for solo shuffle. Not only that, but it felt like so many games were lost and completely out of my control. Matches where i never die, but my dps partner dies and I lose rating/mmr. It’s just not fun and I don’t have time to be super sweaty at 1800 rating.
i myself just got bored of the repeat grind. the new expansion zones feel so pointless, so inudated with random chores, and pvp has literally no community besides people capping or sweats
The problem *as I see it* is the dungeon squish. There is too big of a gap between heroic dungeons and M0 dungeons. The gap from heroic dungeons then to M+ is huge. I saw this happen because I play as a healer (all of them). Overnight I went from being able to carry a newbie (tank or dps, did not matter) to NOT being able to carry anyone, period. I can barely keep myself alive and heal the team. I have to pay so much more attention to all the stuff that can kill me, and I know the dps and tanks are doing the same. I have to let dps die now, whereas I did not before. I cannot voice chat anyone through mechanics now. There is NO leeway for new players, none. Not for those who are new to WOW, not for those who are trying a new spec or role. I see healers and tanks just vanishing from view, so queues are longer and longer. When we were before the squish we could climb gradually the difficulty ladder, there was a progression. Now you have this huge leap to make, and there is no one to cushion you or coach you. Plus Remix "trained" a lot of players to be very very bad, with bad habits and bad manners. I see players pulling for tanks - that is bad. I see tank going too fast - that is bad. I see healers who cannot heal - that is bad. REVERT THE SQUISH.
its only part one of the soulsaga, wait for illidan pulling out that sword, numbers will be sky high :) n the reason the game is dying sometimes is bc of the community and the stupidity of players. blizzard did a great job with the war within !
People don't like to have to wait or work for something to happen. The main issue here being old people have real live issues to deal with and young people don't sit at a screen for long on something that's not really engaging and becomes monotonous. What engages people is the easiness you have to get into a match without having to wait for level, gear and redundant stuff to the main objective PvP. Getting results almost immediately like Mobas and FPS games. I know we chose wow because it is an mmorpg... now days more of an mmo and less of an rpg. For PvP and for attracting younger players there are concessions that WoW will have to make and it probably won't make any of us old players happy in a sense of how fast Toons are ready for PvP progression. PvE sits in one corner and PvP in the other being influenced by the main PVE attraction in class design and class balance. PvP tweaks have little consequence since the main objective is elsewhere and the player base is too small so they happen too little to address problems in the PvP community. The PVE player can't get fun fantasy specs nor the rpg progression cuz it would brake the game for PvPers and the same goes the other way around. Making the game unfair for people on both sides. Making a game that is a jack of all trades and master of none. It is not how old WoW is. But what is WoW being catered to is it Competitive play or RPG play this two alternatives do not go together and the people they attract are totally different. Keeping both communities making none happy has kept the game where it is. Although slowly improving it is not enough.
The only reason I slow down my playing is because as a PVPer who plays pretty chill and focuses on non-competitive battlegrounds, I honestly get sick of losing as horde. I can try my damndest but it seems no one else who plays horde has any interest in actually winning the battleground. It's got to be close to an 80% lose rate. I usually end up quitting for maybe 2 weeks and then coming back for one week and that cycle continues. I might have to just try bg blitz.
The problem I feel is that the mmr is fucked. It‘s just not fun to play vs. former/current glads starting at 1800-2xxx mmr. Like is the player pool so shallow that this has to be an issue?
M+ is also harder than ever. Your group wipes once and everyone leaves. This probably also contributes to less keys completed.
Mythic + got to a point where if you don’t have a 2700 raider io you can’t join a +3 key and PvP is all professional boosters on a dozen accounts keeping their mmr at 1600-2100 to sale boosts gate keeping the people learning for years until they quit. All that’s left is hardcore “very high skill” players on a broken mmr. I don’t want to fight 10x glads when I’m trying to get into 1800 game play for the first time
They need better rewards for other playlists. 3v3 is great, but rbg, 2v2, blitz all should get reskins of whatever current season’s glad mount. Maybe even a non-rated season pass style mount you can earn by just getting wins over time. Just design a new mount each season and crap out some recolors. People need goals to chase. It would lower queue times and make the chases less impossible.
I think a saddle-like item that could give old illusions or retired elite sets would massively fuel engagement too. And let’s face it, it’s only the glad mounts/titles are prestigious enough to remain sacred and unobtainable
Only a matter of time before Blizzard caves to the demands of a formal queue / MMR for M+. This will formally split M+ solo q players and premades and will further discourage healers and tanks to q solo and make the situation worse.
M+ is compounding its issues. Meta-chasing and high IO requirements make it tough for non-meta classes, even with solid runs under their belt-waiting 30+ minutes just to get into a +8 for gilded crests is ridiculous. On top of that, needing 90+ runs to fully upgrade with the new crest system feels like two steps back, even with warbands being a good alt-friendly feature. People are not playing alts. Also people bailing on keys seems to be an issue, which leans into people being super cautious with IO score and completions before they invite anyone.
PvP isn't better. MMR inflation didn’t adapt to solo shuffle pulling players from ranked ladders. Now, with fewer players, you face AWC-level alts way too early, creating a bottleneck. Average PvPers should have a shot at 2400 without constantly running into forged gladiators. The system needs tuning to separate the top 1% from the rest.
I’m going to speak on this as someone who DOES NOT play retail but has given it adequate opportunities. In my opinion and in many of Classic players opinions retail is an MMO, not an MMORPG. It’s just simply not an RPG anymore and it hasn’t been for a long time. The sense of progression on retail does not enthrall the player to keep coming back for more. In older versions of wow, blizzard gave us a world and cool classes and races and said go now and figure it out. The game did not hold your hand other players did, it did not speed run you through and it required you to work with other players to progress forward. You can say it was too slow but it was an RPG. This is simply not the case anymore.
Me as a brewmaster monk or non meta healer getting auto declined as both 2700+ rating hard stuck on 11's is why I'm done for the season or until they do/add something for me to even want to come back
To be honest as a pvp player I would love to see finally some changes to pvp arenas mmr and rating system, because during the week as a working father I have a very limited time to play. And I have to admin that it's very frustraiting to play all the time against top players or old veterans and being stuck at the current rating 1900-2000 with low chance to get the best rewards. I am always trying to get better, but it's very hard to sync with other friends (3vs3 arenas) at similar position with families and limited amount of time schedule. The model of wow should be updated and be more friendly and approachable to older player base which are trying to chase their goals and rewards. I don't care if players reach 4000 rating and have limitless time for playing and grinding rank one. I just want to play, have fun get rewards which should be more obtainable for casual players/dads like me and stop twisting my head about things like why is the rating stuck and every arena feels like struggle for survival agains tier 1 players...because of this I don't see that much issue with skill gap, but more with time which is challenging as itself.
I think a huge part of this is layering and the amount of servers. Especially on classic, I think their should be no layering and 5 servers max so the world feels alive rather than their being nobody in any zone because you got layered on a already low pop server.
I’m older. Play retail. Solo delves and world quests are all I do at the moment. I’m new to the game and learning my character (ret Paladin). Learning the crafting / upgrade system and the lore. At the moment I’ll probable pvp before I start raids and M+.
I’m a very simple type of solo gamer . I usually do like 1-2 years on wow , then quit because I get bored , then switch off to league of legends and do the same for about 1-2 years and just keep rotating . Looking at how things have been going due to Que times for pvp and the gate keepers of mythic keys and all those players that ( think they’re too good ) for everyone else, I think it’s about that time .
The healer tie breaker idea is very smart
I think the other thing to keep in mind is the game is actually designed around, and promotes the kind of up and down subscriptions you outlined.
People get in and get the rewards they want and then they quit until the next season because they know blizzard will invalidate everything from the prior season with a reset so they have no reason to be invested or involved.
Aside from that - again - outside of end game lobby mode - this game offers literally nothing anymore. I only do PvP on retail but even PvP is beginning to just feel like I’m paying $15/mo to play an inferior version of call of duty.
In Legion, we had plenty of other content to do - long, lengthy questlines like the Balance of Power that gave us long term rewards to pursue. In classic there is another world pillar (Leveling and world content). Classic’s end game is actually its weak point to me. I vastly prefer retail end game.
I’m not saying make leveling slower at all but I think they need to attach something like LOTRO leveling difficulties so we can earn cosmetics and have a more engaging experience outside of group content.
From a PvPer that has quit retail. Bring back pvp gear sets with the sockets in each piece and actual elite sets and let that be it.. i was so tired of borrowed power. Hated spending thousands of gold every new season on specific crafted pieces to compete, especially as a healer for precog. Hated that the green new season was better than my epic/BiS gear of last season gear. Hated revamped professions. Hated different tiers of the same items.. the price difference of a tier 2 to tier 3 enchant was thousands of gold differences at times, especially with wep enchants. Hated that the weekly WPvP quest gave you an offset item that set bonus didnt work in arenas/BGs. These are just some of the issues I had during Dragonflight, I havent bothered to buy TWW. Above all this, Make all classes fun! Stop swappin the spotlight around every 2 weeks.
I wish dungeons were playable by 1 tank, 1 healer and 1 DPS (scaling up to 3 DPS) so that I don't have to get random people dragging along with my friends.
Regularly experiencing 30-50 minute queues for BOTH solo shuffle AND BGB is a dealbreaker for me.
Getting 2-3 10 minute matches over the course of an entire afternoon is a terrible time investment. I cannot think of a single other video game where the "actual" playtime is so incredibly low. You can spend 8 hours on the game and only "play" for less than 1, its crazy
The 50 conquest token for healers is an insult hell no what
About 4 years ago I lost my desire to play any game competitively and I'm 32 now.
34-2 kids: Played since Ragneros was the boss to beat haha.
If they could find that line between us RBG’rs and true performance gamers I think it would benefit the game.
If they made loot more available to RBG’rs and boosted the rewards for healers in general (across the board), that would be a good start. True performance gamers beat the RBG’rs everyday, so what’s the harm in noobs or Dad’s having conquest gear lol? Like give the Dad’s the Sword of a Thousand Truths!
More maps too? I think we would all like that. Our age group is growing into this need to get on for an hour or two and random que up, so beef up a system towards that but still allow the hardcore gamers to get loot we lower gamers can’t get? Maybe gems or gear with different abilities? Something effective but not game breaking?
I would also encourage the dev team to continue to continually class change and shake up the meta every 1-2 weeks because it makes it fun to play new classes. It also makes it fun to watch streamers go over class updates and predicting new metas every other week. It keeps me engaged in a game I love so much.
I love WoW and I love the community! Thank you SupaTease for your content!