Hi pick-apart! I’m the guy in the white shirt. I loved the breakdown! Definitely a big difference between both styles of play. Our match was the gold medal match of a 5.5 UTR APP tournament, which translates to about a 4.5 DUPR (my DUPR is sitting at 4.6 at the moment). Drops, resets, and transitioning is definitely a big portion of what I need to work on to improve my game. For tournaments and high pressure games that I am very nervous about, I find myself tensing up and playing a lot faster as you’ve seen 😂 I think you’re correct in that higher level players are more patient and high percentage in their game, often leading to longer rallies. But as some others have been mentioning as well, I think there is something to be said about seizing opportunities to attack and add pressure. I don’t really subscribe to the idea that “pickleball must be played a certain way”. If your drives are winning then that’s great. It’s up to the opponent to prove you wrong. Great players have both soft and fast game- i’m always looking to improve both!
Hello Ed. I'm very familiar with your youtube channel. You do a great job with it. I know you haven't been playing all that long. You have really gotten much better in a short period of time. So, that tells me you spend time drilling and practicing to be the best you can be in all aspects of the game. Being someone who is a senior player, I get a little frustrated playing against younger players, (who don't have near the skill you do) who simply hit the ball as hard as they can, trying to overpower me and my partner who is also a senior. A lot of times what happens is, when I hit third shot drop, after third shot drop, they have no idea what to do with it. At times, it's rather comical. When our opponents, who view us as a couple of old guys who they can easily dominate on the court, walk to the net to tap paddles after we have soundly defeated them, they don't know what to say. Some younger players have kindly said things like, "I guess we underestimated y'alls ability." Or, "Well, that wasn't the outcome we were expecting." As to who would win if you and your partner played one of the senior teams in the video, I think the outcome would depend a lot on this...which team can force the other team to play their game. If they seniors try to match your power game, I think they would lose. But, if the seniors trapped you into playing a much more softer game than you are accustomed to playing, I like their chances. I really appreciate you watching my channel and taking the time to reach out. If you ever do a video in which you interview players and want to get an opinion from someone my age, let me know. I'd be happy to do it. I worked in radio and tv for 35 years and am not afraid of a microphone or camera! Have a Merry Christmas!
You have the perfect voice for this type of channel, not surprising that was your career, you do a great job with the analysis and have made both myself and my wife better players.@pickleballpick-apart9787
Ed, your reply was very self deprecating. I've seen that you can definitely hold your own in a dink rally. And tournament tension is normal for everyone. The seniors definitely play a more patient game. But that also doesn't mean it's better. It's just....different.
The younger guys are from Ed Ju’s channel. He’s a content creator, the guy with a tank top and a pretty darn good player. He does indeed have a good reset and softer game. He also routinely practices softer shots and can play the game like the seniors. In the younger player power game, in one of your examples, it’s very difficult to reset when the ball is coming back with so much pace. So first and foremost, he and his teammates’ job is to keep his team in the rally. And wait for an opportunity. Even in top tier pro games, once one team has an advantage and has the other team back, it often takes several attempts for the team on defense to get back to neutral. Resets are very difficult when people are hitting lasers at you no matter your soft game skill level. I honestly think you’re underestimating the skill of the younger guys. When the ball is moving so fast, it’s harder to highlight your softer game. Because they’re taking every opportunity to put pressure on their opponents. There’s not one style (power or soft) that’s better than the other. You really need to be balanced. The game is evolving. And if you only have a soft game, you are likely to get run over by a skilled power player. And if you only have a power game, the softer game can neutralize your strengths. Right now, because of paddle tech and increased athleticism of young pros, the game is getting faster…and quite frankly, favoring the power game. For what it’s worth, I also prefer the style of the senior players. The soft shots will never go out of style. And I prefer to play a more patient game, too. But I think it’s a mistake to dismiss the power style.
I'm not really dismissing the power. I like you, think the technology is totally changing the game. And, I don't think it's for the best. At one time racquetball was a talk of the Town. The technology got so advanced, it totally changed the game and no one plays a racquetball anymore. I hope that doesn't happen with pickleball. Thanks for watching.
I think you said mostly what I was thinking. Just because the seniors are having longer rallies doesn't mean their style is better. The younger guys are faster and have more ability to attack, it is probably not optimal for them to even try and play that patiently. Different strengths dictate a different style being the most effective. I'm 4.5 DUPR and would say that I try to incorporate both styles and adapt the balance depending on what is working vs the current opponents. That is surely the best answer, do whatever is going to give your opponents the most trouble and preferably keep them guessing as to what is going to happen next. As one of the younger guys in the video commented, they are actually below 5.0, closer to 4.5 so not entirely fair to say they are supposed to be the same level as the seniors here. Realistically if you play a pair almost 0.5 below your level you should be beating them relatively comfortably. What would be interesting is to see a match between a 5.0 seniors pair and 5.0 young pair to see how the different styles work when played against each other. That would be a better window into the relative performance. (Though I am also of the opinion that there is something of a rating bubble in the senior age groups. In 55+ pro or 65+ pro, the top players are continually competing against players in their age bracket and getting a very high rating just because they are the best in that enclosed group. I saw some top super-senior ladies with ratings in the 5.5+ range because they just never lost in that bracket. They were great for 65+ ladies, but honestly I don't see how they wouldn't be taken apart by a decent pair of 4.5 men because they wouldn't have coped with the speed.)
@@mattc3581 yeah for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if the 5.0 seniors could, in fact, out dink your younger 4.5ish crew. But they're also quite a bit older and might have trouble against you guys in a match, in spite of the .5 rating difference. I agree that folks who achieve high ratings by only playing against other seniors in their limited play group could have inflated ratings.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 fair enough. I too, also hope that pickleball does not go the way of racquetball. I don't think it will. And i'm glad that it seems that we're now at the upper end of power for paddles.
It is much easier to drop or reset a shot that is half the speed of the youngsters. Not sure the seniors resets and drops would be as consistent when dealing with the power
I'm in my early 60's, and I play with both younger players and older players whose style more closely matches the younger players. This is the way that pickleball is trending. I used to third shot drop 90% of my shots. Now it's probably 50/50 and trending towards more driving, as I get better at driving just above the net. The goal is always an easier fifth shot drop. With regard to the older players' patience, they missed a ton of potential put-aways and speed-ups that would have resulted in eventual put-aways. I also agree with others' comments that it's much more difficult to reset balls with lots of pace. That increased pace represents increased pressure, and pressure is the name of the game today. I'm a 4.4 DUPR.
Yes, I realize that it's more like third shot drive, 5th shot reset. But if you notice, the young guys drive the third, they drive the fifth they drive the seventh. Thanks for watching.
I started playing a little over a year ago. When i started i wanted to play hard. I didn't know how the game was played, the rallies were short. Then i took lessons and learned fundamental aspects. I found a group of "older" players and noticed how "gentle" yhe game seemed, i started playing with them and learned drops, resets, and found that the soft game was actually harder than driving everything. Lots of practice with soft game really really changed the game and my mindset. Now i have a more rounded game with touch and power when needed. Its fun to drop shot a "banger" and watch them either hit the ball into the net or pop it up because they had to run in to get the drop. Often someone that has a good soft game can catch a banger off guard with slower pace, placement, and dinks. The soft game is actually harder than driving every single ball. Longer rallies and patience goes a long way.
I think you're correct. When you say it's harder to play a soft game than to just drive the ball. It takes much more skill to hit a ball into the kitchen from the service line then to drive it. I really appreciate you watching my channel. Thanks.
Hey Rory. Been watching you from your first video and have helped me improve. I've been playing just under 2 years and come from a badminton background. There's a slow adoption from badminton vs those who come from Tennis but am knocking on the 4.0 door. When starting out I adopted the banger game because that worked well for learning the game, but it only takes you so far. For the last 6 months I've been working hard on drops and dinks and actually find the game is much more enjoyable. In adopting the short game I now can compete with any style. As for comment to this video, banging it out with the young guys I find to be stressful. I'm 64 and my eyes to brain reaction just has a hard time keeping up with their speed. However, if I can force a slower point and get to a dinking game the youngsters lose - they don't develop the soft touch it seems. The problem is managing a game against their power, especially against the 5.0 super bangers as I call them. But, pickleball is fun no matter what style I play against. I enjoy the challenge playing against all styles. It's a chess game, no? You encouraged me to start my own PB channel, and boy what you can learn watching yourself play, drill and practice. Unfortunately, my rec center has a no video policy (a bit b.s.) so I don't get to film all that I could. Finally, I enjoy the game so much I created a PB card game that I share as gifts with my friends. Check out my channel if you get a chance. I'd like your critique. Cheers! @PickleballGo4it
You made some great points. Like you, I think the soft game is much more fun. And, crafting points is like playing chess. Set up one shot to hit the next one. I think out of all the sports out there, badminton players translate best to pickleball. I mean. How do you even see the birdie when it's hit so hard? I would definitely like to check out your UA-cam channel. What is the name of it?
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 @picklballgo4it is my channel I think my point about badminton players is we don't have a common swing to equal the ground stroke which tennis has the advantage. Also, my badminton play was very wristy. However, I do believe badminton translates for stronger overhead/smash shots as well as net dinking. But to get to these shots one has to develop a strong ground stroke. I played junior badminton representing the USA in the Americas, and got thru college on a scholarship. The group behind me in age is the group that first represented the USA at the Olympics. Thus, I was 3 years too early. My brother was asked to be on the team - he won collegiate nationals twice - but life had other plans and he couldn't make it work. In any event, too much talk away from simple communication. Chat with you again down the line. And if you get to Orange County, CA drop me a line and we'll have a game. Cheers!
Well, there’s a reason there are age brackets in serious tournaments. The youth have a distinct advantage with the speed of their games, and the tactics of the seniors break down when shots are coming back at them so fast and spinny. That said, as a senior myself, I do enjoy the slower game more, but am learning to play the faster game out of necessity.
A great video to watch and learn as a senior player coming over from tennis - I play too aggressive at times and lack the power of the younger players for that type game thus making the style of the seniors better. As to which team would win for the youngsters versus the seniors I suspect that the younger players win most of the time - because of foot speed, quickness and that their power at times would generate popups and errors. It is not easy to do a third shot drop off of a powerful screaming return of serve as one example and hand battles favor youth as well.
I’m older and rec play is like the younger players. I use strategy and keep the ball low. But I will fire back and forth too. Or slam the ball at their feet. It’s a combination of resetting the ball and fire power these days. I think the older team in your video learned to play long time ago. I have been playing for 2 years only and we all learned a combination of the younger players game skills and the dinking & resetting skills. I think the younger guys play can be more athletic, sweat, and big on hand / eye coordination. But to calm down the hard balls resetting the ball is the answer. I love both techniques and play this way.
I think the combination of pickleball being America’s fastest growing sport (and hence more players including a lot of younger players) coupled with paddles getting hotter and hotter makes the power game much more appealing, plus a good third shot drive usually ends up with an easier 5th shot drop… you’re even seeing the pros like Ben John’s hit more third shot drives so there’s definitely something to the fast game. I personally think it’s more fun to have the soft game on lock than to be a banger playing with a Gear Box Pro or something ridiculously powerful paddle that makes 85 year old Granny Smith a driving machine! 😂
So true! So true! With more powerful paddles, it's like a player doesn't really have to have skill to win the game. They just need to be able to hit the ball hard. I think that's too bad. Thanks for watching.
One of the reasons the fifty year olds can get resets is because the balls hit to them are a lot slower if they were hit with more power, they wouldn't get as many resets.This is the difference
I see a lot of this comment and I'm not saying they wouldn't win but I think it's unfair to make that call until you see how they handle power. If they are really good at handling drives then it may nullify some of their power and it may be used against them. I think the older player made many less unforced errors so I think that this would be a lot better chance of the older players winning than many are giving credit to. However, I don't know the players, only that they are rated 5.0, so I would assume their game would allow them to play very well with the younger team. While I have some issues with DUPR, one thing about DUPR is it really ignore sex and age as long as the players play with all players. Just may take though.
What a contrast! Although it’s fun to bang the shots, I find the game much MORE fun when rallies last longer. Taking pace off of bangers with resets (from baseline or transition zone) is the “money shot.” Note, resets don’t necessarily have to land in the kitchen. Resets just need to BOUNCE before opponents hit the ball.
It was so old school when you talked about soft game. Pickleball is evolving and winning is about using the least effort (and time) to win the point. Speed is the key.
So bring these 4 teams together and have a RR to 15 win by 2. Who places where/ This should be an easy question to answer without prejudicial speculation.
Have to be honest, the older players seem to miss many opportunities to put the ball away. I play more like the younger players; it's more fun. And I'm a senior.
I play more like the seniors and I think it is way more fun and interesting but I agree with your assessment. The rare speedup failed because it wasn't the right ball to speed up and it looked like there were plenty that were attackable that they didn't take advantage of. One power group I play with counter 3rd shot drives with driving it back rather than blocking or resetting and the same rules apply when they are able to do it. Team at the kitchen has the advantage. That is the group of players the drop is pretty effective against. I would like to see a 5.0 DUPR senior vs 5.0 DUPR youth. I think it would be in the favor of the youth. Ideally rankings would be the same across the board, meaning a 5.0 senior should be about as good as a 5.0 young guy and 5.0 guy should be the same as a 5.0 female but I get why that is not the reality.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Age and gender (and location) aren't supposed to matter. If there was sufficient mixing between the ages/genders etc then the ratings would theoretically balance out and you would get players of the same level at the same rating no matter what age or gender they were. However as far as I can tell: 1) There isn't sufficient mixing, not even remotely close to it, for the ratings to have equalised appropriately. People play in bubbles within their own region, within their age group and very very much within their own gender. (Mixed doesn't help the balance, you need rated matches with men playing against the women to balance out gender ratings, and there aren't too many of those.) 2) DUPR doesn't allocate rating gains and losses fairly for a doubles team. A doubles pair with different ratings will over time end up with the same rating even if their skill level is still just as far apart as when they started. DUPR can't tell who in the pair is playing at what level so it automatically penalises the stronger player and bonuses the weaker player's rating on every single result. 3) DUPR also doesn't give the right rating adjustment when a strong team underperforms, they don't lose as much as they should and the weaker team doesn't gain as much as they should. This was because DUPR bowed to pressure from some players that they shouldn't lose rating if they won a game, even if they won 11-10 in a game they should have won 11-1. The fudging of the rating movements for those games is overinflating the rating of people who play regularly against slightly weaker opponents.
I am only 8 minutes in, but your question "Which style is more effective" is interesting. Just what do you mean by that? It would be interesting to take the winner of the Old Guys and play a game with the losers of the Young Guys. That would tell us "Which style is more effective". Maybe the old guys can't hit it as hard and/or can't run fast enough to get to the hard hits and/or don't have the hands of the young guys. As you said, a completely different kind of game.
Hello! If you are an established 5.0 player and notice that your skills or performance decline over time, do you then get re-rated to a 4.5 player? How does the rating system work? Could you explain it in a video, specifically for recreational and semi-professional players? Thank you! AC
I'd put my money on younger players vs senior players, Lately Even pro players drive 3rd more than drop and are attacking more, Good example of difference in play is Johns bros vs Alshon/Duong with the "bangers " winning
I prefer a soft game but will drive when appropriate. Also, point of dinks are to try to get a popup so you can smash. Your not winning the point on a dink its potentially the next shot. I think the seniors missed some opportunities to speed up. 5.0 for the youngsters. IDK. I like a mix of both soft and power. Maybe a pick apart with youngsters playing seniors and see how that goes. LOVE your pick a parts... Former 4.5 tennis player (63) who is really enjoying pickleball. My tennis game was slice and attach so transitions well into pickleball. Haven't given up tennis yet, but soon as hard on my body
I think you're mistaken this is an old versus young style of play. Me and my buddies are in our fifties and play a power game. Most of us drive it 50% and and do a third shot drop 50% of the time. We use more speed ups and have a lot of fast vollies at the net. We can play against 20 year olds or 50 year olds and hold our own.
try to play with both. the younger opponents will make unforced errors in the soft game and the older players might… might not be able to reach certain angles. i like learning from the older vets because i get to learn a lot. i dont like making them run to score points as i have only played rec. id rather win based on skill than on athleticism but i take my smashes when i can
I favour a soft game and i'm 30 y.o. and im definitely an outlier in my friend group when it comes to play style.... however, alot of those nice long dink rallys with the older generation would get flicked out of the air really quickly playing younger players because they're lofty... I just don't think the older people can physically get prepared quick enough to flick them ; especially considering they're standing 6 inches away from the kitchen line in a non-athletic stance expecting just to dink back, regardless of the shot they're receiving. just my 2 cents but as always, thanks for the content I always enjoy these videos
I typically would agree with you Rory but the game is just speeding up now... Third shot drops are a thing but if someone can rip a drive and the other persons only choice is to block it short, i feel like the margin for error on 5th shot dropping a poorly blocked drive is higher than trying to drop from the baseline if returned deep/fast. Ed is constantly working on his soft game and as he explained in his comment, if the opponents cant handle the pace/speed of the ball, why stop? It's a tournament, you do everything you can to win it.
5.0s I know have both skill sets. The serves by the young looked tougher to return but neither group had deep returns so young had a lot of attackable third shots but the seniors would have done very well dropping those same shots. When the seniors did up the pace they seemed to have good hands and dug or reset well but I also thought the younger players would beat the older just with the more aggressive play. 5.0 seemed like a bit of a stretch for both groups but a combination of the two best, or maybe even the average, from each group would easily be over 5.00.
I’ve been playing 6 months and got a rating of 3.8 but I think that’s too high. I play in 3.0 and 3.5 open play. I’m 63 and played a lot of racket ball up to about 35 until the knees said - no way! I started with a hard game at first but when I play good players it wasn’t working. So now I am mostly playing soft and then works for me vs younger players and hard play. But, when I see an opening I smash it if I think I have an opening. Just played a tennis player type and all he had was hard game. And he was 40 or so. We beat them 2 games to 1, but it was a lot of fun too.
In fairness, pro level pickleball has plenty of drives and power plays. At the elite level they take the older soft style up a notch, with enormous patience followed by disguised speedups to vulnerable spots. Pro level play has moved away from the monotonous third shot drop to often use a third shot drive to set up a 5th shot drop.
Looks like both sets of players are missing skills to be honest. The younger players are hesitant to hit resets. But the senior players lack good aggression and speed ups. I think you'd end up with a close game between the two.
You seem very biased towards the Seniors. My money is on the younger players. The game is moving to more drives than extended dink rallies. Look at the pro women's game. Players like ALW look to speed it up whenever possible. She can dink all day, so it's not that she doesn't have the skill to do that or resets, it's that they think that's the best way to win a point. Even Men's pro is moving towards this direction. The days of the 50 shot dink rallies of the Johns Bros are fading away.
@pickleballpick-apart9787 I honestly don't think the soft game is going anywhere, myself; I watch more games on here than I care to admit to, both pro and amateur, and the fact is at the pro level that the game is still easily 60% soft game, 40% hard, at least for doubles. And I don't think paddle tech is going to change that to any significant degree. I think people like to come onto these videos talking about how the "soft game is dying" because they can regularly get away with winning against 3.5 and weak 4.0 players at their local rec courts by just banging away at everything; but if you watch pro matches, every single one of them is going to have both lengthy dink rallies and/or firefights on the vast majority of points. The soft game is explicitly there to set up the put-aways. Golf clubs have changed the game massively in the last century, but players still need to know how to putt. tl;dr - I not only think there's room for both, but that there HAS to be room for both.
@@janinemurdock2043 There is definitly room for both and there will always be a soft game, but players are driving much more. The 3rd shot drive seems to be a more more used shot than the 3rd shot drop in the pros. But teams are moving away from the super long dink rallies. They are trying to speed up balls now they probably wouldn't have even a couple years ago.
@rburnsiv True, but to be fair a 3rd shot drive is generally used to set up a 5th shot drop especially at the upper levels because the returning team is pretty much guaranteed to be up at the net no matter the quality of the initial service return. I don't disagree that drives are becoming a bigger part of the game, I just don't think a hard game will ever fully supplant the soft game. Or really come close. At best maybe the ratio reverses and it becomes 60% hard, 40% soft. I will say that I think serves are becoming way more important. A deep serve with high pace and good placement is going to set up the serving team much better than just a deep serve alone.
You say the younger players don’t have the skills for the soft game, how do you know ?? The fact is the power game is more effective. You have a clear bias against power players on your channel.
Lmao this is the most biased commentary I’ve heard. Pickleball is not supposed to be all about dinking and long extended rallies - that occurs naturally when both teams are of relatively equal skill. I agree the younger players should probably look to drop and reset more, but the seniors aren’t even playing at the 5.0 level, given the points we’ve seen. If the younger players played the seniors, the seniors would get destroyed.
I’m 61 Years Young and prefer the seniors soft style of game where strategy and setting up your shots is a learned skill .. I play more like these Seniors but not as good as these fellas are more skilled and experienced than me - The Young Players constant Power Game is not for me , I enjoy longer rally’s where your able to make multiple shots throughout the point .. not 1,2 Point over which is like Men’s Tennis Matches of today and why it’s become less popular to watch
Tennis has definitely changed over the years. I remember when Rosco Tanner had the fastest serve in the world. It clocked in at 115 mph. Players are now hitting it. 150. Thanks for watching.
Not sure about the comment that "they just can't reset the ball". The young guys are better at being aggressive against the resets, so it looks like a bad reset. The 50's let them bounce and keep dinking. Young guys attack more and pretty good at it. I 'd bet on the young guys.
I am a little surprised these players are rated at 5.0 and above. Notice how they hold their paddles when standing at the kitchen line. Many of the balls could be taken out of the air, but because their paddles are hanging down at their sides they just don't have time to react to the balls that are dinked a little on the high side.
and its not about their age its about the skill and exp they have. Seniors might have 10+ years of playing tennis or any raquet sports and youngs guys just 1-2 years of PBall
I don't know if any of the players play or once played tennis. Just judging from their swings, I don't think they are tennis players. They don't have bad habits some tennis players who play pickleball do. Thanks for watching.
@@JDpickles Heres another consideration too. If you receive a hard topspin return deep your chances of hitting a successful 3rd shot drop go down dramatically. It is often a higher consistency shot to drive the 3rd or else your 3rd drop will often hit the net or end up high. That's another reason people drive the 3rd is for consistency.
@@okayest_amateur I 100% agree. Ive also found that driving the 3rd shot makes the 5th shot drop to get to the kitchen infinitely easier and less risky than a high 3rd shot drop. Even a medium paced drive forces the opponent to not have the time to make a decision on where they can place the ball. In that senior match, almost every dink rally had a high dink or high 3rd that they wouldve slammed. Im still relatively new.. but dinking to dink works in rec play, dont think it works competitively.
This is an unfair comparison. Original title is UTR 5.5 which is equivalent to 3.5 DUPR so it really should be 5.0 seniors vs 3.5 Younger Players here is what google says: A UTR 5.5 rating roughly translates to a DUPR rating around 3.5; meaning a player with a UTR 5.5 would likely be considered a mid-level player in the DUPR system, with a rating slightly above the average recreational player I think between 5.0 seniors and 3.5 younger players , seniors should win but it would be close. There is probably a .5-1.0 difference between 5.0 Seniors and 5.0 open. So a 5.0 senior team should be about equal to a 4.0 open team. The reason I say this is because my buddy and I were playing a rec match and since the teams were so lopsided we decided we were going to play a no drive game. We both lost about 1 dupr point in skill when we couldn't drive or be aggressive. I don't have any statistical data to prove this but this is my opinion.
Man, this sure is taking a snapshot from one game and trying to make content out of it. I get that you want to make views from this, but we all know we could point to a dozen other UA-cam players of this level at both age groups, and it would be insanely different levels of play and pressure. Don't sully all your other content with good advice with this. Take my advice, don't take it- either way, keep up the good work on the other videos.
Thanks. I tealize it's a small sample size, but I just thought the contrast was striking. I see this very often. Players who are over 50, sometimes, do not play anything like players in their twenties. Again, it's like they're playing two different games.
Ha c’mon Rory…you’re comparing dupe rated players to utr ratings. At one point you say the young guys don’t look like 5.5’s to you. You’re right. They don’t. That’s because they’re not. Ed Ju (white tank top) is 4.6 in dupr. So this video is apples to oranges. Haha and I’d still take 4.6 20 somethings over 5.0 50+ guys. Easy to reset balls that never get sped up 😂
the oldmans can't hang with the youngsters, trust me 5.0 seniors are comparable to young 4.5 only. yall cant handle the fast balls your reflexes and hand eye aren't as good. your a senior and biased but youd get whoop grandpa. not hating just telling you how it is
The younger guys have far less skill. Old guys hit far more unattackable balls. In this comp I give it to older guys. If the old guys can handle power they win.
Hi pick-apart! I’m the guy in the white shirt. I loved the breakdown! Definitely a big difference between both styles of play.
Our match was the gold medal match of a 5.5 UTR APP tournament, which translates to about a 4.5 DUPR (my DUPR is sitting at 4.6 at the moment).
Drops, resets, and transitioning is definitely a big portion of what I need to work on to improve my game. For tournaments and high pressure games that I am very nervous about, I find myself tensing up and playing a lot faster as you’ve seen 😂
I think you’re correct in that higher level players are more patient and high percentage in their game, often leading to longer rallies.
But as some others have been mentioning as well, I think there is something to be said about seizing opportunities to attack and add pressure.
I don’t really subscribe to the idea that “pickleball must be played a certain way”. If your drives are winning then that’s great. It’s up to the opponent to prove you wrong.
Great players have both soft and fast game- i’m always looking to improve both!
Hello Ed. I'm very familiar with your youtube channel. You do a great job with it. I know you haven't been playing all that long. You have really gotten much better in a short period of time. So, that tells me you spend time drilling and practicing to be the best you can be in all aspects of the game.
Being someone who is a senior player, I get a little frustrated playing against younger players, (who don't have near the skill you do) who simply hit the ball as hard as they can, trying to overpower me and my partner who is also a senior. A lot of times what happens is, when I hit third shot drop, after third shot drop, they have no idea what to do with it. At times, it's rather comical. When our opponents, who view us as a couple of old guys who they can easily dominate on the court, walk to the net to tap paddles after we have soundly defeated them, they don't know what to say. Some younger players have kindly said things like, "I guess we underestimated y'alls ability." Or, "Well, that wasn't the outcome we were expecting."
As to who would win if you and your partner played one of the senior teams in the video, I think the outcome would depend a lot on this...which team can force the other team to play their game. If they seniors try to match your power game, I think they would lose. But, if the seniors trapped you into playing a much more softer game than you are accustomed to playing, I like their chances.
I really appreciate you watching my channel and taking the time to reach out. If you ever do a video in which you interview players and want to get an opinion from someone my age, let me know. I'd be happy to do it. I worked in radio and tv for 35 years and am not afraid of a microphone or camera! Have a Merry Christmas!
12:42 Ed hits gorgeously placed inside out passing shot. Rory's immediate hot take: the seniors' pickleball skills are just much, much better ;-)
You have the perfect voice for this type of channel, not surprising that was your career, you do a great job with the analysis and have made both myself and my wife better players.@pickleballpick-apart9787
Ed, your reply was very self deprecating. I've seen that you can definitely hold your own in a dink rally. And tournament tension is normal for everyone.
The seniors definitely play a more patient game. But that also doesn't mean it's better. It's just....different.
Hi Ed, I would not be listening to his advice. Keep improving you’re doing great.
The younger guys are from Ed Ju’s channel. He’s a content creator, the guy with a tank top and a pretty darn good player. He does indeed have a good reset and softer game. He also routinely practices softer shots and can play the game like the seniors.
In the younger player power game, in one of your examples, it’s very difficult to reset when the ball is coming back with so much pace. So first and foremost, he and his teammates’ job is to keep his team in the rally. And wait for an opportunity. Even in top tier pro games, once one team has an advantage and has the other team back, it often takes several attempts for the team on defense to get back to neutral. Resets are very difficult when people are hitting lasers at you no matter your soft game skill level.
I honestly think you’re underestimating the skill of the younger guys. When the ball is moving so fast, it’s harder to highlight your softer game. Because they’re taking every opportunity to put pressure on their opponents.
There’s not one style (power or soft) that’s better than the other. You really need to be balanced. The game is evolving. And if you only have a soft game, you are likely to get run over by a skilled power player. And if you only have a power game, the softer game can neutralize your strengths. Right now, because of paddle tech and increased athleticism of young pros, the game is getting faster…and quite frankly, favoring the power game.
For what it’s worth, I also prefer the style of the senior players. The soft shots will never go out of style. And I prefer to play a more patient game, too. But I think it’s a mistake to dismiss the power style.
I'm not really dismissing the power. I like you, think the technology is totally changing the game. And, I don't think it's for the best. At one time racquetball was a talk of the Town. The technology got so advanced, it totally changed the game and no one plays a racquetball anymore. I hope that doesn't happen with pickleball. Thanks for watching.
I think you said mostly what I was thinking. Just because the seniors are having longer rallies doesn't mean their style is better. The younger guys are faster and have more ability to attack, it is probably not optimal for them to even try and play that patiently. Different strengths dictate a different style being the most effective. I'm 4.5 DUPR and would say that I try to incorporate both styles and adapt the balance depending on what is working vs the current opponents. That is surely the best answer, do whatever is going to give your opponents the most trouble and preferably keep them guessing as to what is going to happen next.
As one of the younger guys in the video commented, they are actually below 5.0, closer to 4.5 so not entirely fair to say they are supposed to be the same level as the seniors here. Realistically if you play a pair almost 0.5 below your level you should be beating them relatively comfortably. What would be interesting is to see a match between a 5.0 seniors pair and 5.0 young pair to see how the different styles work when played against each other. That would be a better window into the relative performance. (Though I am also of the opinion that there is something of a rating bubble in the senior age groups. In 55+ pro or 65+ pro, the top players are continually competing against players in their age bracket and getting a very high rating just because they are the best in that enclosed group. I saw some top super-senior ladies with ratings in the 5.5+ range because they just never lost in that bracket. They were great for 65+ ladies, but honestly I don't see how they wouldn't be taken apart by a decent pair of 4.5 men because they wouldn't have coped with the speed.)
@@mattc3581 yeah for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if the 5.0 seniors could, in fact, out dink your younger 4.5ish crew. But they're also quite a bit older and might have trouble against you guys in a match, in spite of the .5 rating difference. I agree that folks who achieve high ratings by only playing against other seniors in their limited play group could have inflated ratings.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 fair enough. I too, also hope that pickleball does not go the way of racquetball. I don't think it will. And i'm glad that it seems that we're now at the upper end of power for paddles.
I'm 68 and I try to play a combination. Knowing when to reset and when to speed-up is key...in my opinion. 😊
That's a good point. However, some players don't have the all-around game to do that. Thanks for watching.
It is much easier to drop or reset a shot that is half the speed of the youngsters. Not sure the seniors resets and drops would be as consistent when dealing with the power
The speed of the game does change it. But, I think the seniors are highly skilled and can probably handle it. Thanks for watching.
No way they could handle it. It’s like the difference between pro players and solid recreational players. There is an enormous athletic gap.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 no way, im barely a 4.0 put me with another 4.0 senior ill crush them
I'm in my early 60's, and I play with both younger players and older players whose style more closely matches the younger players. This is the way that pickleball is trending. I used to third shot drop 90% of my shots. Now it's probably 50/50 and trending towards more driving, as I get better at driving just above the net. The goal is always an easier fifth shot drop. With regard to the older players' patience, they missed a ton of potential put-aways and speed-ups that would have resulted in eventual put-aways. I also agree with others' comments that it's much more difficult to reset balls with lots of pace. That increased pace represents increased pressure, and pressure is the name of the game today. I'm a 4.4 DUPR.
Yes, I realize that it's more like third shot drive, 5th shot reset. But if you notice, the young guys drive the third, they drive the fifth they drive the seventh. Thanks for watching.
I started playing a little over a year ago. When i started i wanted to play hard. I didn't know how the game was played, the rallies were short. Then i took lessons and learned fundamental aspects. I found a group of "older" players and noticed how "gentle" yhe game seemed, i started playing with them and learned drops, resets, and found that the soft game was actually harder than driving everything. Lots of practice with soft game really really changed the game and my mindset. Now i have a more rounded game with touch and power when needed. Its fun to drop shot a "banger" and watch them either hit the ball into the net or pop it up because they had to run in to get the drop. Often someone that has a good soft game can catch a banger off guard with slower pace, placement, and dinks. The soft game is actually harder than driving every single ball. Longer rallies and patience goes a long way.
I think you're correct. When you say it's harder to play a soft game than to just drive the ball. It takes much more skill to hit a ball into the kitchen from the service line then to drive it. I really appreciate you watching my channel. Thanks.
Hey Rory. Been watching you from your first video and have helped me improve. I've been playing just under 2 years and come from a badminton background. There's a slow adoption from badminton vs those who come from Tennis but am knocking on the 4.0 door.
When starting out I adopted the banger game because that worked well for learning the game, but it only takes you so far. For the last 6 months I've been working hard on drops and dinks and actually find the game is much more enjoyable. In adopting the short game I now can compete with any style.
As for comment to this video, banging it out with the young guys I find to be stressful. I'm 64 and my eyes to brain reaction just has a hard time keeping up with their speed. However, if I can force a slower point and get to a dinking game the youngsters lose - they don't develop the soft touch it seems.
The problem is managing a game against their power, especially against the 5.0 super bangers as I call them. But, pickleball is fun no matter what style I play against. I enjoy the challenge playing against all styles. It's a chess game, no?
You encouraged me to start my own PB channel, and boy what you can learn watching yourself play, drill and practice. Unfortunately, my rec center has a no video policy (a bit b.s.) so I don't get to film all that I could.
Finally, I enjoy the game so much I created a PB card game that I share as gifts with my friends.
Check out my channel if you get a chance. I'd like your critique.
Cheers!
@PickleballGo4it
You made some great points. Like you, I think the soft game is much more fun. And, crafting points is like playing chess. Set up one shot to hit the next one. I think out of all the sports out there, badminton players translate best to pickleball. I mean. How do you even see the birdie when it's hit so hard? I would definitely like to check out your UA-cam channel. What is the name of it?
@@pickleballpick-apart9787
@picklballgo4it is my channel
I think my point about badminton players is we don't have a common swing to equal the ground stroke which tennis has the advantage. Also, my badminton play was very wristy. However, I do believe badminton translates for stronger overhead/smash shots as well as net dinking. But to get to these shots one has to develop a strong ground stroke.
I played junior badminton representing the USA in the Americas, and got thru college on a scholarship. The group behind me in age is the group that first represented the USA at the Olympics. Thus, I was 3 years too early. My brother was asked to be on the team - he won collegiate nationals twice - but life had other plans and he couldn't make it work.
In any event, too much talk away from simple communication. Chat with you again down the line. And if you get to Orange County, CA drop me a line and we'll have a game.
Cheers!
Well, there’s a reason there are age brackets in serious tournaments. The youth have a distinct advantage with the speed of their games, and the tactics of the seniors break down when shots are coming back at them so fast and spinny. That said, as a senior myself, I do enjoy the slower game more, but am learning to play the faster game out of necessity.
I totally get what you're saying. Thanks for watching.
A great video to watch and learn as a senior player coming over from tennis - I play too aggressive at times and lack the power of the younger players for that type game thus making the style of the seniors better. As to which team would win for the youngsters versus the seniors I suspect that the younger players win most of the time - because of foot speed, quickness and that their power at times would generate popups and errors. It is not easy to do a third shot drop off of a powerful screaming return of serve as one example and hand battles favor youth as well.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the nice compliment!
I’m older and rec play is like the younger players. I use strategy and keep the ball low. But I will fire back and forth too. Or slam the ball at their feet. It’s a combination of resetting the ball and fire power these days. I think the older team in your video learned to play long time ago. I have been playing for 2 years only and we all learned a combination of the younger players game skills and the dinking & resetting skills. I think the younger guys play can be more athletic, sweat, and big on hand / eye coordination. But to calm down the hard balls resetting the ball is the answer. I love both techniques and play this way.
If you started 2 years ago, you started just as the game was changing. Going to more power now. Thanks for watching.
I think the combination of pickleball being America’s fastest growing sport (and hence more players including a lot of younger players) coupled with paddles getting hotter and hotter makes the power game much more appealing, plus a good third shot drive usually ends up with an easier 5th shot drop… you’re even seeing the pros like Ben John’s hit more third shot drives so there’s definitely something to the fast game. I personally think it’s more fun to have the soft game on lock than to be a banger playing with a Gear Box Pro or something ridiculously powerful paddle that makes 85 year old Granny Smith a driving machine! 😂
So true! So true! With more powerful paddles, it's like a player doesn't really have to have skill to win the game. They just need to be able to hit the ball hard. I think that's too bad. Thanks for watching.
This is why I curate a game for myself at least once a week with younger, more athletic players that play a fast game.
That's a good idea! Thanks for watching.
One of the reasons the fifty year olds can get resets is because the balls hit to them are a lot slower if they were hit with more power, they wouldn't get as many resets.This is the difference
I think it would be interesting to see them match up with one of the younger teams. Thanks for watching.
I enjoy your analysis keep up the good work
if the younger players play the seniors the younger players would win
Agree, the balls that they use power on are ones they should be using power. Most are attackable.
The young guy in the white tank top looks like Ed Ju.
It is and he wrote a very nice comment.
It is a different game but the younger team would win.
I see a lot of this comment and I'm not saying they wouldn't win but I think it's unfair to make that call until you see how they handle power. If they are really good at handling drives then it may nullify some of their power and it may be used against them. I think the older player made many less unforced errors so I think that this would be a lot better chance of the older players winning than many are giving credit to. However, I don't know the players, only that they are rated 5.0, so I would assume their game would allow them to play very well with the younger team. While I have some issues with DUPR, one thing about DUPR is it really ignore sex and age as long as the players play with all players. Just may take though.
What a contrast! Although it’s fun to bang the shots, I find the game much MORE fun when rallies last longer.
Taking pace off of bangers with resets (from baseline or transition zone) is the “money shot.” Note, resets don’t necessarily have to land in the kitchen. Resets just need to BOUNCE before opponents hit the ball.
Thanks for watching! I like your analysis of the game. I appreciate you watching.
It was so old school when you talked about soft game. Pickleball is evolving and winning is about using the least effort (and time) to win the point. Speed is the key.
I realize the game is changing. It all has to do with paddle technology. And, I think it's not a good thing. See racquetball.
So bring these 4 teams together and have a RR to 15 win by 2. Who places where/ This should be an easy question to answer without prejudicial speculation.
Good idea!
Have to be honest, the older players seem to miss many opportunities to put the ball away. I play more like the younger players; it's more fun. And I'm a senior.
I play more like the seniors and I think it is way more fun and interesting but I agree with your assessment. The rare speedup failed because it wasn't the right ball to speed up and it looked like there were plenty that were attackable that they didn't take advantage of. One power group I play with counter 3rd shot drives with driving it back rather than blocking or resetting and the same rules apply when they are able to do it. Team at the kitchen has the advantage. That is the group of players the drop is pretty effective against. I would like to see a 5.0 DUPR senior vs 5.0 DUPR youth. I think it would be in the favor of the youth. Ideally rankings would be the same across the board, meaning a 5.0 senior should be about as good as a 5.0 young guy and 5.0 guy should be the same as a 5.0 female but I get why that is not the reality.
Good point. I think that is a flaw in the DUPR system. Age and gender are not considered in the formula. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Age and gender (and location) aren't supposed to matter. If there was sufficient mixing between the ages/genders etc then the ratings would theoretically balance out and you would get players of the same level at the same rating no matter what age or gender they were.
However as far as I can tell:
1) There isn't sufficient mixing, not even remotely close to it, for the ratings to have equalised appropriately. People play in bubbles within their own region, within their age group and very very much within their own gender. (Mixed doesn't help the balance, you need rated matches with men playing against the women to balance out gender ratings, and there aren't too many of those.)
2) DUPR doesn't allocate rating gains and losses fairly for a doubles team. A doubles pair with different ratings will over time end up with the same rating even if their skill level is still just as far apart as when they started. DUPR can't tell who in the pair is playing at what level so it automatically penalises the stronger player and bonuses the weaker player's rating on every single result.
3) DUPR also doesn't give the right rating adjustment when a strong team underperforms, they don't lose as much as they should and the weaker team doesn't gain as much as they should. This was because DUPR bowed to pressure from some players that they shouldn't lose rating if they won a game, even if they won 11-10 in a game they should have won 11-1. The fudging of the rating movements for those games is overinflating the rating of people who play regularly against slightly weaker opponents.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787age and genders make DUPR become a very discriminatory rating system.
Those seniors are 4.5 at best.
I am only 8 minutes in, but your question "Which style is more effective" is interesting. Just what do you mean by that? It would be interesting to take the winner of the Old Guys and play a game with the losers of the Young Guys. That would tell us "Which style is more effective". Maybe the old guys can't hit it as hard and/or can't run fast enough to get to the hard hits and/or don't have the hands of the young guys. As you said, a completely different kind of game.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
Hello! If you are an established 5.0 player and notice that your skills or performance decline over time, do you then get re-rated to a 4.5 player? How does the rating system work? Could you explain it in a video, specifically for recreational and semi-professional players? Thank you! AC
Your rating goes up or down as you play matches. It all depends on it who you are playing against and how you do against them.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 is this self ratings??
I'd put my money on younger players vs senior players,
Lately Even pro players drive 3rd more than drop and are attacking more,
Good example of difference in play is Johns bros vs Alshon/Duong with the "bangers " winning
That Duong guy is incredible.
I prefer a soft game but will drive when appropriate. Also, point of dinks are to try to get a popup so you can smash. Your not winning the point on a dink its potentially the next shot. I think the seniors missed some opportunities to speed up. 5.0 for the youngsters. IDK. I like a mix of both soft and power. Maybe a pick apart with youngsters playing seniors and see how that goes. LOVE your pick a parts... Former 4.5 tennis player (63) who is really enjoying pickleball. My tennis game was slice and attach so transitions well into pickleball. Haven't given up tennis yet, but soon as hard on my body
Yeah. Tennis is much harder on the body. Thanks for watching
Thanks for the shoutout! Great job!
You're more than welcome! I'm glad you got to see it.
I think you're mistaken this is an old versus young style of play. Me and my buddies are in our fifties and play a power game. Most of us drive it 50% and and do a third shot drop 50% of the time. We use more speed ups and have a lot of fast vollies at the net. We can play against 20 year olds or 50 year olds and hold our own.
These guys are in their 60s.
try to play with both. the younger opponents will make unforced errors in the soft game and the older players might… might not be able to reach certain angles. i like learning from the older vets because i get to learn a lot. i dont like making them run to score points as i have only played rec. id rather win based on skill than on athleticism but i take my smashes when i can
Good points. Thanks for watching!
I favour a soft game and i'm 30 y.o. and im definitely an outlier in my friend group when it comes to play style.... however, alot of those nice long dink rallys with the older generation would get flicked out of the air really quickly playing younger players because they're lofty... I just don't think the older people can physically get prepared quick enough to flick them ; especially considering they're standing 6 inches away from the kitchen line in a non-athletic stance expecting just to dink back, regardless of the shot they're receiving. just my 2 cents but as always, thanks for the content I always enjoy these videos
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
I typically would agree with you Rory but the game is just speeding up now... Third shot drops are a thing but if someone can rip a drive and the other persons only choice is to block it short, i feel like the margin for error on 5th shot dropping a poorly blocked drive is higher than trying to drop from the baseline if returned deep/fast.
Ed is constantly working on his soft game and as he explained in his comment, if the opponents cant handle the pace/speed of the ball, why stop? It's a tournament, you do everything you can to win it.
I get it. Thanks for your time and thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 No problem! One thing I will continue to work on is my soft game though! No worries ;)
5.0s I know have both skill sets. The serves by the young looked tougher to return but neither group had deep returns so young had a lot of attackable third shots but the seniors would have done very well dropping those same shots. When the seniors did up the pace they seemed to have good hands and dug or reset well but I also thought the younger players would beat the older just with the more aggressive play. 5.0 seemed like a bit of a stretch for both groups but a combination of the two best, or maybe even the average, from each group would easily be over 5.00.
Thanks for watching and thanks for you comments.
I’ve been playing 6 months and got a rating of 3.8 but I think that’s too high. I play in 3.0 and 3.5 open play. I’m 63 and played a lot of racket ball up to about 35 until the knees said - no way! I started with a hard game at first but when I play good players it wasn’t working. So now I am mostly playing soft and then works for me vs younger players and hard play. But, when I see an opening I smash it if I think I have an opening. Just played a tennis player type and all he had was hard game. And he was 40 or so. We beat them 2 games to 1, but it was a lot of fun too.
Glad to know you found a game that's not so hard on the knees. Thanks for watching.
In fairness, pro level pickleball has plenty of drives and power plays. At the elite level they take the older soft style up a notch, with enormous patience followed by disguised speedups to vulnerable spots. Pro level play has moved away from the monotonous third shot drop to often use a third shot drive to set up a 5th shot drop.
Very true! Thanks.
Looks like both sets of players are missing skills to be honest. The younger players are hesitant to hit resets. But the senior players lack good aggression and speed ups. I think you'd end up with a close game between the two.
I think so, too. Thanks for watching.
You seem very biased towards the Seniors. My money is on the younger players. The game is moving to more drives than extended dink rallies. Look at the pro women's game. Players like ALW look to speed it up whenever possible. She can dink all day, so it's not that she doesn't have the skill to do that or resets, it's that they think that's the best way to win a point. Even Men's pro is moving towards this direction. The days of the 50 shot dink rallies of the Johns Bros are fading away.
I get it. I really think it's too bad the paddles are getting so powerful that the shoft game is disappearing.
@pickleballpick-apart9787 I honestly don't think the soft game is going anywhere, myself; I watch more games on here than I care to admit to, both pro and amateur, and the fact is at the pro level that the game is still easily 60% soft game, 40% hard, at least for doubles. And I don't think paddle tech is going to change that to any significant degree.
I think people like to come onto these videos talking about how the "soft game is dying" because they can regularly get away with winning against 3.5 and weak 4.0 players at their local rec courts by just banging away at everything; but if you watch pro matches, every single one of them is going to have both lengthy dink rallies and/or firefights on the vast majority of points. The soft game is explicitly there to set up the put-aways. Golf clubs have changed the game massively in the last century, but players still need to know how to putt.
tl;dr - I not only think there's room for both, but that there HAS to be room for both.
@@janinemurdock2043 There is definitly room for both and there will always be a soft game, but players are driving much more. The 3rd shot drive seems to be a more more used shot than the 3rd shot drop in the pros. But teams are moving away from the super long dink rallies. They are trying to speed up balls now they probably wouldn't have even a couple years ago.
@rburnsiv True, but to be fair a 3rd shot drive is generally used to set up a 5th shot drop especially at the upper levels because the returning team is pretty much guaranteed to be up at the net no matter the quality of the initial service return. I don't disagree that drives are becoming a bigger part of the game, I just don't think a hard game will ever fully supplant the soft game. Or really come close. At best maybe the ratio reverses and it becomes 60% hard, 40% soft.
I will say that I think serves are becoming way more important. A deep serve with high pace and good placement is going to set up the serving team much better than just a deep serve alone.
A player, regardless of age, with a quick reaction time and a soft game can win a ton of games.
They sure can! Thanks for watching.
They each have their place, even during a singl play. I am 70 .
They do. Thanks for watching.
You say the younger players don’t have the skills for the soft game, how do you know ??
The fact is the power game is more effective.
You have a clear bias against power players on your channel.
There are 114 million UA-cam channels. I appreciate you watching mine.
Lmao this is the most biased commentary I’ve heard. Pickleball is not supposed to be all about dinking and long extended rallies - that occurs naturally when both teams are of relatively equal skill.
I agree the younger players should probably look to drop and reset more, but the seniors aren’t even playing at the 5.0 level, given the points we’ve seen.
If the younger players played the seniors, the seniors would get destroyed.
Thanks for your opinion.
seniors almost don't move . and also these yongsters are 4.0+ , if we can find it out on Ed channel
Well, this is the title of the video of the game on youtube. 2024 OWL APP Newport Beach Open Men's Doubles UTR 5.5 19+.
I’m 61 Years Young and prefer the seniors soft style of game where strategy and setting up your shots is a learned skill .. I play more like these Seniors but not as good as these fellas are more skilled and experienced than me -
The Young Players constant Power Game is not for me , I enjoy longer rally’s where your able to make multiple shots throughout the point .. not 1,2 Point over which is like Men’s Tennis Matches of today and why it’s become less popular to watch
Tennis has definitely changed over the years. I remember when Rosco Tanner had the fastest serve in the world. It clocked in at 115 mph. Players are now hitting it. 150. Thanks for watching.
Not sure about the comment that "they just can't reset the ball". The young guys are better at being aggressive against the resets, so it looks like a bad reset. The 50's let them bounce and keep dinking. Young guys attack more and pretty good at it. I 'd bet on the young guys.
We'll just have to disagree on that. Thanks for watching.
It’s all about testosterone levels. The younger guys would likely blitz the older with speed that they are not used to.
Maybe so! Thanks for watching.
I am a little surprised these players are rated at 5.0 and above. Notice how they hold their paddles when standing at the kitchen line. Many of the balls could be taken out of the air, but because their paddles are hanging down at their sides they just don't have time to react to the balls that are dinked a little on the high side.
That's a good point. Being in an athletic position and with your paddle up and out in front of you is the ideal thing to do at the NVZ.
Dude... The seniors look like it's a warm-up drill. Resetting a ball moving 5MPH is not impressive.
I think they're probably better than you think they are. Thanks for watching.
and its not about their age its about the skill and exp they have. Seniors might have 10+ years of playing tennis or any raquet sports and youngs guys just 1-2 years of PBall
I don't know if any of the players play or once played tennis. Just judging from their swings, I don't think they are tennis players. They don't have bad habits some tennis players who play pickleball do. Thanks for watching.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 I mean, it's very subjective all u said in this video, because you can't know the whole truth and background.
Dinking is a privilege.
And an art. Thanks for watching.
Did you write that reddit article of the same title?
@@okayest_amateur No, but it was a good point and kinda proves in this video. Seniors were dinking to dink. Game has changed.
@@JDpickles Heres another consideration too. If you receive a hard topspin return deep your chances of hitting a successful 3rd shot drop go down dramatically. It is often a higher consistency shot to drive the 3rd or else your 3rd drop will often hit the net or end up high. That's another reason people drive the 3rd is for consistency.
@@okayest_amateur I 100% agree. Ive also found that driving the 3rd shot makes the 5th shot drop to get to the kitchen infinitely easier and less risky than a high 3rd shot drop. Even a medium paced drive forces the opponent to not have the time to make a decision on where they can place the ball. In that senior match, almost every dink rally had a high dink or high 3rd that they wouldve slammed. Im still relatively new.. but dinking to dink works in rec play, dont think it works competitively.
This is an unfair comparison. Original title is UTR 5.5 which is equivalent to 3.5 DUPR so it really should be 5.0 seniors vs 3.5
Younger Players here is what google says:
A UTR 5.5 rating roughly translates to a DUPR rating around 3.5; meaning a player with a UTR 5.5 would likely be considered a mid-level player in the DUPR system, with a rating slightly above the average recreational player
I think between 5.0 seniors and 3.5 younger players , seniors should win but it would be close.
There is probably a .5-1.0 difference between 5.0 Seniors and 5.0 open. So a 5.0 senior team should be about equal to a 4.0 open team. The reason I say this is because my buddy and I were playing a rec match and since the teams were so lopsided we decided we were going to play a no drive game. We both lost about 1 dupr point in skill when we couldn't drive or be aggressive. I don't have any statistical data to prove this but this is my opinion.
Thanks. I appreciate your opinion and pointing out the difference between dupr and utr.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Rory We may have differing opinions about pickleball but your a true gentleman for always being so polite.
Agree, you are right! Patience & Placement vs Power and Pace!
Glad you agree!
Man, this sure is taking a snapshot from one game and trying to make content out of it. I get that you want to make views from this, but we all know we could point to a dozen other UA-cam players of this level at both age groups, and it would be insanely different levels of play and pressure. Don't sully all your other content with good advice with this. Take my advice, don't take it- either way, keep up the good work on the other videos.
Thanks. I tealize it's a small sample size, but I just thought the contrast was striking. I see this very often. Players who are over 50, sometimes, do not play anything like players in their twenties. Again, it's like they're playing two different games.
Ha c’mon Rory…you’re comparing dupe rated players to utr ratings. At one point you say the young guys don’t look like 5.5’s to you. You’re right. They don’t. That’s because they’re not. Ed Ju (white tank top) is 4.6 in dupr. So this video is apples to oranges. Haha and I’d still take 4.6 20 somethings over 5.0 50+ guys. Easy to reset balls that never get sped up 😂
I was going off by the title of the video they posted. They don't have 5.0. They have 5.5.
It's all about amount of testosterone
OK.
I like combination of dink and drive. If you cant reset in kitchen zone, you are inferior player and less than 4.0.
That's according to USPA pickleball ratings. Thanks for watching.
No way either team is 5.0....no way
the oldmans can't hang with the youngsters, trust me 5.0 seniors are comparable to young 4.5 only. yall cant handle the fast balls your reflexes and hand eye aren't as good. your a senior and biased but youd get whoop grandpa. not hating just telling you how it is
Hopefully you'll make to old age.
You’re crazy. The young guys would win on pure aggression, hand and foot speed. It’s a different game.
Okay. I'm going to assume you are their age. Thanks for watching.
Nope I’m 49, but I play with a lot of good younger players, it’s tough.
The younger guys have far less skill. Old guys hit far more unattackable balls. In this comp I give it to older guys. If the old guys can handle power they win.
That's what I'm thinking, but, a lot of viewers think the power would overtake the older players. Thanks for your opinion.