Roger was in my railroad club. I knew him as a teenager. Nice guy! Wish he was around today. I miss him and feel bad, when I think of the loss his death was to our hobby.
Wow he must have been a cool guy. It's a shame no model train ever made really good o scale nyc subway and el trains. There would be such a market for it Rail king was good but they seem more concerned with the electronics then the accuracy and running
@@luislaplume8261 Excellent point Luis. I just wish they hadn't torn the el down when they did. I grew up in Queens and took the 7 el for years. My wife is from Woodhaven, and took the J el for years too. Stay well.
@@kevin7151 You made a big mistake! The trains on the 7 line that you rode back in the 1970s were made from 1963 til 1964 and were the R33WF for the 1964, 1965 New York World's Fair. I should know. The first of them came in late 1963 around November. We lived a mile away from the Main Street terminal. We then in April 1964 moved to Richmond Hill. I am a New Yorker who grew up in NYC during the Mad Men era. 😁
It's sad the 2nd Ave El above 59th St was already demolished (Time 8:05). I had hoped to see the area of the 2nd Ave El in the E.70s where I lived. These are wonderful videos... Thank you!
The "sharp turn" the train makes is at Coenties Slip; a street in the Financial District of Manhattan in New York City. It runs southeast for two blocks in Lower Manhattan from Pearl Street to South Street. A walkway runs an additional block north from Pearl Street to Stone Street. The slip was originally an artificial inlet in the East River for the loading and unloading of ships that was land-filled in 1835. The entire length of the road is a pedestrian street, though before 2013, the block north of Water Street carried vehicular traffic.
Roger was a stalwart of NYC'S Electric Railroaders Association and one of the most dedicated and expert railfans I’ve ever met. It’s wonderful that his rich collection of historical materials is now surfacing here where everyone who is interested can find and enjoy it.
If you read the newspaper articles from the first couple of weeks after the 6th Ave El opened in 1878, there were warnings to stop people from standing on the front and back platforms of the trains. "An accident from that elevation will be far more deadly than at street level". Two weeks after the 6th Ave Elevated Line opened, someone fell as he was trying to board a moving train. The conductor tried to help him on board, but the man fell to the street and broke both his arms. Those warning signs might have been there from the beginning.
Unfortunately, part of the issue with El train lines was falling debris and weakening structure. Lots of safety concerns...such a shame. This was astonishing workmanship and the videos are very much appreciated!!!!!
@@intercityrailpal NYC still has hundreds of miles of elevated rails in The Bronx - Brooklyn and Queens. Actually - Upper Manhattan still has one... The 1 train runs from Van Cortlandt in The Bronx - but when it gets to Mahattan in stays elevated in Inwood - Washington Heights and most of Harlem. Then goes underground. Manhattan became too crowded with buildings for elevated lines. You would never see the sun.
We were supposed to get a 2nd Ave subway but that was delayed because of ww2 Then it kept getting delayed because of budget cuts Today we only have part of what we were promised in 1939
Yes it is. Back fenders, green doors, white roof trunk and hood. The 3 colored police cars from the 1910s til 1960s. In the 1970 changed to light blue with white trim.
I'm amazed all these subway videos are surfacing (no pun intended 😉 ). Could it be someone invented a time machine and went back and got them? That's it! That must be it! Great videos!
such a dam shame they did not see the need to keep all them trains we could have really used them today in this world but they did not see it they loved the car automobile and now look we are so messed up with traffic and a country that is so far behind other countries that invested in high speed trains and better transit systems
In retrospect, the move to tear down the 2nd or 3rd Ave. els was rather hasty; had one remained, it might have spurred quicker construction of the 2nd Ave. subway, which is taking over 100 years! I'd never seen footage of the trains crossing the 59th. St. bridge before.
BMT subway trains on the N and W lines use the platforms formerly used by the IRT elevated trains at Queensboro Plaza since the BMT half of the station was abandoned in 1949.
My takeaway from all of this, @steelo , is that no sooner had construction on the elevated system been completed throughout New York City when decisions were made to start demolishing it all over again... and what remains of it is largely in a tragically dilapidated state, with neither the funds, the initiative nor the know-how still at hand to do anything much about it.
@@rasheedwhite4647 I believe that. GM also lobbied hard for the creation of the Eisenhower Interstate System in the 1950s, knowing full well it would decimate the consumer rail industry. Want to get an idea of how the American people could be cajoled into that massive an infrastructure expenditure? THAT'S how... with the backing of overwhelming lobbyist propaganda.
@@litlgrey GM only had that power because those generations of Americans loved their cars enough to send many public short lines into bankruptcy as early as the 1930's. Suburban and local services in my hometown were discontinued as early as 1948. Long distance passenger rail continued until the late 1960's when it was actually destroyed by the deregulation of passenger airliners and overregulation of railroads.
@@flintfredstone228 They were and they did, however it's important to remember that in cities like Chicago, independently owned commuter rail and bus companies began experiencing financial difficulties much earlier, even prior to the onset of the Great Depression, and required bailouts from the various cities. In the 1950s and 1960s conversely, political pressure was exerted by GM and by Big Oil to perpetrate the massive deregulation which subsequently ensued. Rail companies couldn't compete with the massive largesse that lobbyists offered to political cronies, and so unlike in Europe and Asia, the commuter rail infrastructure was dismantled with blinding speed.
@@TheRailLeaguer yah I've noticed, it's revitalised over there but I'm talking about down between 14th and 59th. Getting off the l than onto the T i think they're calling it will be a game changer
Blackula TheEvilOyo Agreed. An even bigger game changer is having the whole SAS reworked, with 4 tracks south of 63rd Street, and a new tunnel linking the line to Queens, and a new Northern Blvd Subway out to Flushing. Imagine getting from the East Side of Manhattan to a Mets game without dealing with the Lexington Avenue or Flushing Lines. That’s would be great.
Craig F. Thompson Staten Island Service is better serviced by an extension of the 4th Avenue Line. However, the R route is unreliable as it is and deinterlining would need to occur before any extension of the R would occur. In addition, phase 3 and 4 of SAS is still a pipe dream. To counter both of this, I am proposing a new tunnel connection between the Broadway Line and the Fulton Line and then to the Jamaica El. This will allow for more efficient service in Brooklyn and Queens and open the door for service to Staten Island.
Craig F. Thompson I have seen the IND Second System from 1929 and 1939. Some of my plans have come from those plans, but with a modern take on it. In fact, I may be looking to make a Throggs Neck crosstown branch of the East Side IND lines.
@@djkeddie I know that, but I'm struggling to find the verb that conveys what I'm thinking. Let me try again: did the 2nd Ave El rise above, along E Broadway, the height of the Manhattan bridge as it not-quite-perpendicularly "intersected" the bridge?
I see what you mean, sorry. The Second Avenue el went underneath the Manhattan bridge while running above Division Street as it went from Chatham Square to the turn into Allen Street north of First Avenue (from when it went to Second Avenue via 23rd Street.) The el also ran under the Brooklyn Bridge on Pearl Street.
That's amazing. I'm looking at street view images and there's barely any clearance under the bridges on those streets. Have you come across any relevant photos?
Odd choice for the little park's name, because the predecessor park at Coenties Slip running from Water Street to South Street was called Jeanette Park, often photographed and featured as a setting in the film The Killer That Stalked New York (1950), starting at @38:36, ua-cam.com/video/mhv0QZWC9Xw/v-deo.html, the el is visible @38.54.
Just to correct myself, the inland boundary of Jeanette Park was Front Street; frequently renovated in its history, it was still there when I was a kid in the early 60's but I missed the el!
NYC footage here but... Bklyn NY 35 + years no one here family no so Why am I here ? Someone's got to do it I guess.. Jonah 3::2 2 Tim 4:2 Acts 18:10 Not for nothing , I've lived in all of Bkny. To date 15 yrs 11205 make known has a lot of heart. good neighbors despite the drama. .. GD lyric Scarlet Begonia strangest of places if you look at it right @heartruthhere
Roger was in my railroad club. I knew him as a teenager. Nice guy! Wish he was around today. I miss him and feel bad, when I think of the loss his death was to our hobby.
Wow he must have been a cool guy.
It's a shame no model train ever made really good o scale nyc subway and el trains. There would be such a market for it
Rail king was good but they seem more concerned with the electronics then the accuracy and running
Superb video. Thanks for posting. To think that NYers had subway service on 2nd Avenue for years and then lost it for 75+ years.
Subway is underground, el trains run above the streets.
@@luislaplume8261 Excellent point Luis. I just wish they hadn't torn the el down when they did. I grew up in Queens and took the 7 el for years. My wife is from Woodhaven, and took the J el for years too. Stay well.
@@kevin7151 I am old enough to remember when what is now the J line had World War 1 era BMT Standards running during the rush hours in the 1960s!
@@luislaplume8261 Likewise, I rode the 7 line in the 70s and most cars were pre WW2. None had A/C, much like your own experience. Stay well.
@@kevin7151 You made a big mistake! The trains on the 7 line that you rode back in the 1970s were made from 1963 til 1964 and were the R33WF for the 1964, 1965 New York World's Fair. I should know. The first of them came in late 1963 around November. We lived a mile away from the Main Street terminal. We then in April 1964 moved to Richmond Hill. I am a New Yorker who grew up in NYC during the Mad Men era. 😁
Love seeing old images and photos of my hometown New York.
It's sad the 2nd Ave El above 59th St was already demolished (Time 8:05). I had hoped to see the area of the 2nd Ave El in the E.70s where I lived.
These are wonderful videos... Thank you!
its amazing how they ran those tracks through those narrow little streets downtown
Thanks for sharing I watched while riding the A train down town
The "sharp turn" the train makes is at Coenties Slip; a street in the Financial District of Manhattan in New York City. It runs southeast for two blocks in Lower Manhattan from Pearl Street to South Street. A walkway runs an additional block north from Pearl Street to Stone Street.
The slip was originally an artificial inlet in the East River for the loading and unloading of ships that was land-filled in 1835. The entire length of the road is a pedestrian street, though before 2013, the block north of Water Street carried vehicular traffic.
Wonderful footage which may have been lost to time if not filmed. Thanks so much for this.
Roger was a stalwart of NYC'S Electric Railroaders Association and one of the most dedicated and expert railfans I’ve ever met. It’s wonderful that his rich collection of historical materials is now surfacing here where everyone who is interested can find and enjoy it.
I wonder if modern AI can be used to stabilize and clarify these old color images?
If you read the newspaper articles from the first couple of weeks after the 6th Ave El opened in 1878, there were warnings to stop people from standing on the front and back platforms of the trains. "An accident from that elevation will be far more deadly than at street level". Two weeks after the 6th Ave Elevated Line opened, someone fell as he was trying to board a moving train. The conductor tried to help him on board, but the man fell to the street and broke both his arms. Those warning signs might have been there from the beginning.
Unfortunately, part of the issue with El train lines was falling debris and weakening structure. Lots of safety concerns...such a shame. This was astonishing workmanship and the videos are very much appreciated!!!!!
Nothing that could have been fixed the Chicago system is still there!
@@intercityrailpal NYC still has hundreds of miles of elevated rails in The Bronx - Brooklyn and Queens. Actually - Upper Manhattan still has one... The 1 train runs from Van Cortlandt in The Bronx - but when it gets to Mahattan in stays elevated in Inwood - Washington Heights and most of Harlem. Then goes underground. Manhattan became too crowded with buildings for elevated lines. You would never see the sun.
Thanks for sharing this
seeing the flagman at 11:34, flagging down trains the 19th century way, was great
3:03 wow that ride made it feel soo realistic tho 😯
Wow. These old videos brings so many memories. New York City was a beautiful City back in the days.❤❤
Imagine if we kept this sturdy el.
We wouldn't be spending $1B a mile today to replace it ... 80 years later.
We were supposed to get a 2nd Ave subway but that was delayed because of ww2
Then it kept getting delayed because of budget cuts
Today we only have part of what we were promised in 1939
Great vintage footage.
At the 3:16 and 3:17 mark ; there is a two tone coupe riding behind the bus. I’m almost 100% sure that was a New York City police car.
Yes it is. Back fenders, green doors, white roof trunk and hood. The 3 colored police cars from the 1910s til 1960s. In the 1970 changed to light blue with white trim.
Boy...only if the MTA would of known how much the population grew and these els were much needed...and they had the 2nd ave service!
I'm amazed all these subway videos are surfacing (no pun intended 😉 ). Could it be someone invented a time machine and went back and got them? That's it! That must be it! Great videos!
Another amazing video.
such a dam shame they did not see the need to keep all them trains we could have really used them today in this world but they did not see it they loved the car automobile and now look we are so messed up with traffic and a country that is so far behind other countries that invested in high speed trains and better transit systems
In retrospect, the move to tear down the 2nd or 3rd Ave. els was rather hasty; had one remained, it might have spurred quicker construction of the 2nd Ave. subway, which is taking over 100 years! I'd never seen footage of the trains crossing the 59th. St. bridge before.
There is one on you tube if you search for it
It's from a DVD that was created by this guy talking on this video
Confused here. I have seen many videos of the 3rd street elevated to the Bronx. So there was a 2nd Avenue elevated too?
Yes, there was both a third and second avenue elevated
WAY before I was born.
BMT subway trains on the N and W lines use the platforms formerly used by the IRT elevated trains at Queensboro Plaza since the BMT half of the station was abandoned in 1949.
My takeaway from all of this, @steelo , is that no sooner had construction on the elevated system been completed throughout New York City when decisions were made to start demolishing it all over again... and what remains of it is largely in a tragically dilapidated state, with neither the funds, the initiative nor the know-how still at hand to do anything much about it.
They had the funds , politicians lobbied by GM destroyed the EL'S.
@@rasheedwhite4647 I believe that. GM also lobbied hard for the creation of the Eisenhower Interstate System in the 1950s, knowing full well it would decimate the consumer rail industry. Want to get an idea of how the American people could be cajoled into that massive an infrastructure expenditure? THAT'S how... with the backing of overwhelming lobbyist propaganda.
@@litlgrey GM only had that power because those generations of Americans loved their cars enough to send many public short lines into bankruptcy as early as the 1930's. Suburban and local services in my hometown were discontinued as early as 1948. Long distance passenger rail continued until the late 1960's when it was actually destroyed by the deregulation of passenger airliners and overregulation of railroads.
@@flintfredstone228 They were and they did, however it's important to remember that in cities like Chicago, independently owned commuter rail and bus companies began experiencing financial difficulties much earlier, even prior to the onset of the Great Depression, and required bailouts from the various cities.
In the 1950s and 1960s conversely, political pressure was exerted by GM and by Big Oil to perpetrate the massive deregulation which subsequently ensued. Rail companies couldn't compete with the massive largesse that lobbyists offered to political cronies, and so unlike in Europe and Asia, the commuter rail infrastructure was dismantled with blinding speed.
So the El ran on the 7 tracks? I had been told that was impossible due to the size of the trains and the tracks.
The El’s to Astoria and Flushing were built to IRT dimensions. Astoria platforms were widened to BMT size in 1949.
2nd Ave would be a hot-spot if the 2nd Ave train was still running
Blackula TheEvilOyo It’s here. It’s currently the Q line subway to 96th Street.
@@TheRailLeaguer yah I've noticed, it's revitalised over there but I'm talking about down between 14th and 59th. Getting off the l than onto the T i think they're calling it will be a game changer
Blackula TheEvilOyo Agreed. An even bigger game changer is having the whole SAS reworked, with 4 tracks south of 63rd Street, and a new tunnel linking the line to Queens, and a new Northern Blvd Subway out to Flushing. Imagine getting from the East Side of Manhattan to a Mets game without dealing with the Lexington Avenue or Flushing Lines. That’s would be great.
Craig F. Thompson Staten Island Service is better serviced by an extension of the 4th Avenue Line. However, the R route is unreliable as it is and deinterlining would need to occur before any extension of the R would occur. In addition, phase 3 and 4 of SAS is still a pipe dream. To counter both of this, I am proposing a new tunnel connection between the Broadway Line and the Fulton Line and then to the Jamaica El. This will allow for more efficient service in Brooklyn and Queens and open the door for service to Staten Island.
Craig F. Thompson I have seen the IND Second System from 1929 and 1939. Some of my plans have come from those plans, but with a modern take on it. In fact, I may be looking to make a Throggs Neck crosstown branch of the East Side IND lines.
so the 2nd ave went to queensboro plaza? as if that station wasn't busy enough as it was!
It was much bigger, today's station is cut back...way back just like all the rail systems across the country.
Nice.
So we had a second avenue subway back in the 40s, but we don't today. Sounds like progress ...
Good Ol' Roger! Miss him!
I didn't catch in the video how the 2nd Ave El crossed the Manhattan Bridge. Did it go over it along E Broadway?
Alvin Khaled It crossed the Queensboro bridge, not the Manhattan.
@@djkeddie I know that, but I'm struggling to find the verb that conveys what I'm thinking. Let me try again: did the 2nd Ave El rise above, along E Broadway, the height of the Manhattan bridge as it not-quite-perpendicularly "intersected" the bridge?
I see what you mean, sorry. The Second Avenue el went underneath the Manhattan bridge while running above Division Street as it went from Chatham Square to the turn into Allen Street north of First Avenue (from when it went to Second Avenue via 23rd Street.) The el also ran under the Brooklyn Bridge on Pearl Street.
@@djkeddie awesome! Thanks!
That's amazing. I'm looking at street view images and there's barely any clearance under the bridges on those streets. Have you come across any relevant photos?
so they went to 14th, 19th, 23rd and then all the way to 42nd! NYC public transit often makes no sense as to stops.
b. griffin Reason 1 on why they wanted to replace els with subways.
Because it was the express line.
time machine
The camera made these stations look like dungeons.No beauty.Just steel trains and stations!
Don’t disrespect what they used back then they had to use this it isn’t as bad as your Android phone at 144p
@@emteaay2477 Mine is Galaxy 9S
good.
The 2nd Ave, El was made of steel not iron.
That area is in bad shape now thanks dabosio
All those people are dead ☠️
This is Coenties Slip today: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coenties_Slip#/media/File:Coenties_Slip_Park_HDR_2021_jeh.jpg
Odd choice for the little park's name, because the predecessor park at Coenties Slip running from Water Street to South Street was called Jeanette Park, often photographed and featured as a setting in the film The Killer That Stalked New York (1950), starting at @38:36, ua-cam.com/video/mhv0QZWC9Xw/v-deo.html, the el is visible @38.54.
Just to correct myself, the inland boundary of Jeanette Park was Front Street; frequently renovated in its history, it was still there when I was a kid in the early 60's but I missed the el!
NYC footage here but... Bklyn NY 35 + years no one here family no so Why am I here ?
Someone's got to do it I guess.. Jonah 3::2 2 Tim 4:2 Acts 18:10 Not for nothing , I've lived in all of Bkny. To date 15 yrs 11205 make known has a lot of heart. good neighbors despite the drama. .. GD lyric Scarlet Begonia strangest of places if you look at it right @heartruthhere