I’m slowly moving away from what ifs, but I think there’s a space for them. A lot of the ones I’ve made have been crazy concepts that do end up with crazy power, but that’s not the focus. Sure, people like the power, but I just liked writing the character and changing them. They don’t always hit, but the fact that people like them i think it’s clear that there’s not only a spot for them but that they CAN be good and people CAN like them. Even the weird betrayed and trapped ones. I do think they get nuts sometimes, but they can just be fun. The betrayed and trapped idea came from the Latino community which did indeed use it as an excuse for extreme power fantasy. When I used that concept I didn’t focus on that. Goku did get crazy strong, sure, but that wasn’t the focus. Goku doesn’t like just getting strong just cuz, if he he has no one to put it up against.
I'd say one of the biggest problem with DB what-ifs, is how a bunch of them seem scared of being suboptimal, forgetting the characters won't always be able to measure all their options with surgical accuracy, probably because the authors may be afraid of being criticized for making the characters dumb (even though they are sometimes)... or alternatively, the whole reason they're doing what-ifs WAS to make the characters smarter, losing all the development and nuance in the way to achieve that hollow goal.
I have a whole problem with making Self Inserts. Personally I feel like people judge them too much, they’re not all even power fantasies, and what if they are? People can be allowed to have fun exploring their favorite worlds.
I've always been a big fan of MasakoX most of his what if's are very story driven and character based rather than focused on fights and power he locks in the best when talking about why a character would do something or how other characters are feeling in a situation Ironically I feel the best dragon ball what if's are ones that focus on growth or accepting both failure and success rather than how you can make a fight interesting
It's also why I'm a fan of Carthu and SmugStick. Even their stories show characters aren't invincible. There is much growth and development to be had before one can reach their true potential. Their what-ifs also focus on character growth and world-building. Not nearly to the same exact extent as Masako's stories *(No seriously, Masako's what-ifs feel like borderline audio dramas at times),* but pretty close all the same. One of my personal favorites I'd recommend to people is SmugStick's story of Goku growing up on the kai world. That one had a lot of good world-building. Also, Masako's stories focusing on Z-Fighter Hercule and the reformed Turles. I really want those to come back one day and be completed.
The whole 'Trapped and Betrayed' thing is so backwards to me, like people will complain that stuff like Super are just fighting and no plot, but this is no different. It's like a Disneyland attraction where Goku is a circus monkey. "Dance for us, Monkey!" ~ Freeza
Now this is just me personally, but I'll defend that one SmugStick made where Kami became paranoid of Goku in the beginning. Because even though Goku became stronger (he unlocked all the forms up to SSJ3 before the events of Z), he wasn't unbeatable. He could still lose. And even after gaining his new strength, all his friends became rightfully leery of his new jaded attitude and how he just saw Earth as his personal gym. But fighting is only a part of the story. There was lots of character development all throughout not just for Goku but everyone else. Kami even apologizes to Goku later on, and Goku does get over his hatred. There was even some coll development for Vegeta and Buu. Yeah, it was still a Bit out of character on Kami's part, but it was still one of the *Better* betrayed what-ifs that *I've* personally seen just off the overall execution alone. And one of the more tame examples. Seriously, look at how many of the others have Goku becoming Zeno-level right off the bat.
Plot twist: Their original stories suck more than their fanfiction because making something they don’t want ends up sucking the life out of their motivation to embrace the art of storytelling.
What if GT Pan wasn't screwed over by the writers would definitely make for a fun story. She doesn't even need a Super Saiyan transformation. What she would need are actually good fights, a characterization consistent with the first two episodes on Earth, and not making her the damsel all the time.
not just pan, i want to see a full rewrite of GT. the concept and story are gold, but the execution is lacking. theres infinite potential but noone cares because its GT
@@djinnspalace2119 Ngl, Yh, I don't think anyone has done this, But what if Goten went with Goku, Trunks, and Pan All you really have to do is rewrite Goten, That's literally it
The whole Black Star saga and GT in general was botched. There should have been groups of warlords out there vying for supremacy a la movie villain gangs. And Trunks, Pan, and Goku all should have been heavily involved in the battles, with Pan and Trunks coming into their own, until the final 1-2 gangs start wiping out the rest. Pit Goku against the villain, Trunks against the elite minion, Pan to wipe out the mooks, and wind up in a battle that turns into a slog where they all have to dig deep to win, with Trunks getting SS2 to beat the elite minion, and Pan eventually getting an upgrade after Goku and Trunks are beaten, finally able to hold her own against the villain and only winning due to using a clever technique. Then, they can finally go home and relax... Or so they think. Uub should have pushed Baby Vegeta WAY harder. Likewise, Piccolo should not have actually died, even if he appeared to. Then do better with Super 17, making it a full arc, and sub in Pikkon for Piccolo's role. Have Piccolo depowering the black star balls after collecting them cause the evil dragons, and have the cast split up to defeat the lesser dragons. (Pan+Uub(+Bra?) take one, Gohan+Piccolo(+Videl?) take one, Krillin+18+Yamcha+Tien take one, Vegeta takes one, Goku takes one, Trunks+Goten take one) Then they can have Gogeta/Goku take the lead for the last one. Could've been a great sendoff to the whole cast, instead of just Goku.
2:40 Smugstick's is an exception It focuses more on how that sffected goku mentally and how it strained his relationship with his loved ones And even though it makes goku extremely overpowered it compensates by making Goku's opponents even stronger
@@A-0-K-GAMERyep salad saiyan’s take(s) are great since they’re accidental and they’re not trapped for too long, preventing them from breaking the plot, and he also puts the emotional side into it, especially for Gohan
My first exposure to this genre was Carthu Dojo’s channel. What drew me in besides the massive possible changes from the og story is that he tries to make sure it fits with the established world building of current canon DB. Often in other channels to add to the story elements from non canonical material such as GT and Hero’s are added (not that I’m complaining), while Carthu only really uses material that’s in canon Z-Super, which makes things easier for me to follow given that comparatively his What-If’s are simpler narrative wise.
0:53 I agree that Bra is a Mary Sue because of her power, but the part saying that everyone likes her is a lie. Pan gets very upset with her after the whole Majin incident and Vegetto has threatened to kill her in a flashback. She's viewed more as a menace and a freak than a loved member of U16. Now, a character that everyone instantly loves is, you guessed it, Mary Sue from U2 lol
I legitimately laughed out loud when you said "Mary Sue" and Bra from DBM popped up instead of the literal character "Mary Sue" from the same comic XDDD You're not wrong though!
Hold on, why is Toyotaro at fault for Beerus' powercreeping? As we all know, it's Akira Toriyama who collaborated and taught with his pupil, and by extension, the markerters wouldn't want Beerus to be showed up by Goku or Vegeta so soon if it means they cannot milk any new abilities or transformations.
It's true that I am assuming, but it's toyotaros manga that constantly wanking berrus while the anime dosent, and a character constantly scaling to be stronger than goku was never a problem in toryamas original manga, soi think it's a decent assumption to make
Tbh the only Dragon Ball What-if creator I consistently watch is Salad Saiyan. Imo there are indeed very few people who actually make good what-if stories. And personally, I think he's one of them. 👍
I should note before anyone asks that I'm not trying to belittle anyone else. This is a PERSONAL OPINION and I am not here to start arguments over this. I just wanted to share my perspective.
The worst what if stories in my opinion are ones where everyone dies and the story has to abruptly end. A good what if should leave the story open ended that a new story could be written.
My problem with DB What ifs is when they try to turn the light hearted Dragon Ball into a bloody, dark, edgy story. Its annoying because that not what dragon ball is at all
I enjoy your videos because you seem pretty genuine and authentic with how you show these, I get your thumbnail drawings are nowhere perfect, but I like the imperfection that shows that all of us have room to improve.
I personally love Salad Saiyan, who’s actually done two separate trapped and betrayed series with Goku and Gohan and the other one being Vegeta and Trunks and does a very good job of keeping the story grounded even if the characters are stronger than they normally are.
I like What If stories even in Dragon Ball because of how differently things could progress and many UA-camrs I watch who make such content think of ways for things to remain somewhat challenging for the main cast. Like, what if Goku turned Super Saiyan as a kid when Krillin died? It would certainly make him far more powerful than Demon King Piccolo and that arc can end much sooner, meaning no Piccolo Jr. And then, when Raditz arrives, Goku would be stronger than him anyway and he wouldn’t die, so no meeting King Kai, no learning Kaio-Ken and more importantly no learning the Spirit Bomb. Without Piccolo, there’s no Kami, and so no more Dragon Balls, so Vegeta and Nappa don’t go to Earth, at least for that reason (if Goku uses Super Saiyan against Raditz, that might be a reason for them to go but it’s just as possible they decide not to go for that same reason, or more likely Vegeta doesn’t believe a low-class warrior sent to such a weak planet could ever become a Super Saiyan and chalk up Raditz’s death to something else). Of course, such a What If has a ton of other possible routes too, and that’s why it’s so interesting.
2:35 I actually really likes salad saiyans version of this. It had big psychological effects on gohan and goku and it's interesting to see how it effects them
That’s because there is no what if Mr Satan was the strongest Edit I ment in dragon ball sparking zero also thanks for the video suggestions I’m going to watch all of them
I feel like a What If for Dragon Ball should be easy to write, and easy to make interesting. You have the blue print, just understand the characters you’re writing about, and you’re gold.
What ifs can be fun, but I think my pet peeve would be when a character feels like this ultimate solution to everything they can be to all situations. I love masakox, but his Gine what if felt like she felt like a vacuum to most issues and I stopped during cell when the main villain was smiling while dying to her because…he had a bit of her in his dna so he wanted to loose? It just felt too hokey and the drama was just too out of place for a dragon ball story to me.
theres only so many times i can see the same villains be defeated by different characters until im over it. be creative, take some risks, heck bring in the movie villains but pls do something different. i saw a tiktok about "what if cooler was introduced into canon like broly" and despite only being a 3 minute tiktok gave me much more enjoyment than any of these hour long videos ever did. most what ifs change stuff, but they dont create anything.
That is a great insight. It's like an idea I utilized once about the TASM movies. What if Peter knew that George was a police captain? The dinner scene would have gone differently, resulting in a different dynamic between the two and Gwen.
Totally agree, thank you for vocalizing something ive felt for a long time. Im not opposed to “what ifs” in theory, but i want a “what if” that makes the characters more interesting not more powerful. Frankly, id prefer a “what if” that makes the *enemies* stronger, forcing the z fighters to maximize their combined efforts, and go through character arch’s in order to gain more strength.
The best what ifs to me are the ones that bring the most changes in creative ways without going off-brand. Like What if Goku landed at Capsule Corp or what if Tarbel was sent to Earth. Where changing one little thing affects so may other things.
My what if ideas I was making while writing this comment: 1. What if there's was no Mexico? 2. What if Yamcha is the strongest, but he hides it? 3. What if Mr. Popo was white? 4. What if Krillin and Vegeta were 6ft? 5. What if master Roshi was gai? 6. What if Frieza was democrat? 7. What if Goku was hood? 8. What if Frieza was hairy? 9. What if saiyans weren't vegetables? 10. What if Vegeta married Makima?
Ooo boy i get that a lot, trying to make a plot that doesnt make characters seem to overpowered is hard, ive been writing and rewriting my ocs for 2 years and i finally think we settled down on a story, soon diama will finish and me and my friend will talk about story for that when it cones out, most likely well just say they dont join them, i dont know until we actually talk about it
Diddy will clap gokus cheek converting him to his team making goku learn the art of baby oil. Once they are out Diddy and goku will found kid gotenks and trunks and clap their cheeks with baby oil. Vegeta would be enraged allowing babidi to make him an majin, yet majin vegeta would be nothing infront of Goku and Diddy high power level. Eventually, however Diddy would try to riz pan which will be the final straw for goku as he come back to his senses and unleash his long kamehamaeha on him
9:06 Well, Piccolo kinda screwed up when he gambled on finishing one of the androids so Cell couldn't become perfect. If it wasn't for Piccolo's energy Cell most likely wouldn't have been able to locate 17 and 18 given their lack of energies for Cell to sense.
I would recommend Hyourinjutsu if someone would want to see well animated What-Ifs that will more often than not make sense while being a spectacle, even when the video doesn't have an actual fight
What makes the problem of a character being too strong especially unfortunate in dragon ball what ifs is that there’s built in ways the world of db can be used for the concept to not become boring. What I mean by that is a lot of villains are only as strong as the main cast they’re fighting, such as Cell taking the dna and data from the strongest fighters for his development, Buu being able to absorb overconfident (usually very strong) characters and gain their power, Zamasu stealing someone in the main cast’s body, Moro directly stealing energy (and later even abilities) from the people he’s fighting, etc. I think a good example of this concept of ‘stronger fighters means that the villains are stronger to compensate’ can be seen in a lot of Salad Sayains what ifs, some of which have really out there concepts that you would think would entirely destroy any semblance of a story, like what if Goku has Frieza’s potential.
Honestly my favorite what is stories are the ones that do not deal with the sayains. I always find it far more interesting to know about how the earthlings deal with the threat
My favourite what ifs are on the line of. What if raditz was good? What if future gohan survived instead of future trunks? What if kami & piccolo never split to begin with?
Yes, in some instances there will be times where it's just a power fantasy. I think what separates the good what ifs from the bad what ifs, in any medium, is what the person telling you does with these characters. Dragon Ball, for instance, has characters like Future Cell or Zamasu. If these come from timelines connected to the what if, you get insurmountable odds. There's also the perspective of roles to consider. Like what does be trapped in the time chamber do to a character's psyche, and what will their development look like. If you take a character and do something major to them, will they be changed or is the journey about getting that character back to who they used to be. Yeah, there are people who just do the power fantasy; however, there are plenty of others who take into account what the change to these characters means to the story. They utilize it to tackle a character from another perspective. There's always more than one way to appreciate your favorite character. Sometimes they just what to have fun with the characters they like.
I like the trapped in the time chamber idea aside from the fact i swear every story with goku has him hook up with Caulifla and cheat on chi chi (and have a child with her and the kid (goten) is constantly in ultra instinct due to gokus training while he trains Caulifla ultra instinct)
Honestly the best what ifs are the ones that allow characters to shine together. One of my favorites is what if Radiz turned good since it not only adds a new dimension to the relationship of him and Goku but also slowly builds up to have Radiz become stronger to eventually prove himself to Vegeta. While also allow Launch and other characters to have roles as well. But I agree mindless power up what ifs are boring. Especially the time chamber ones. They feel so stupid that anyone would commit to it and always end up feeling grimdark removing the charming aspects of characters personalities.
@AarturoSc I know there's a famous alternate universe where he actually gets betrayed and then goes to a demon universe and has a child with a demon, maybe the meme is that the demon universe is the highschool DXD universe?
Here’s some randoms I thought of- -what if buuhan wa sable to unlock beast while fighting vegito. -what if mecha Frieza took gokus advice and trained before coming back to earth. -what if krillin never destroyed the larva cell in the current timeline, gaining a lot more data and power
I don't have a problem with the concept of what if stories. I particularly enjoy those that are cross overs/mix verse. However, in regards to crossovers/mix verse stories, I wish there were more with Vegeta (or vegeta tagging along) or gohan getting sent to another universe. Recently just listened to one where goku and Vegeta were accidentally sent to the DC universe after there world/verse got destroyed by Darsied
I like a fanmanga called "an Earth without Goku". The way the earthlings have to go through all the original sagas without the original main charactet is quite interesting and well written.
this is a thing about dragon ball, in some shows, if you change something the entire story derails really easily, but in dragonball, no mater what you change, freeza still exists, gero is working on some robots, and babidi is comming for buu eventually
I mean depending on what, that usually is what a "WHAT IF" is. Not meant to be an entirely different story, just a diverging point where a ton of stuff changes due to butterfly effect things.
@@yurazah in some genre of What If, but What If we treated What If as if it was What If the story diverged as a narrative decision during the development of the story in its original context/What Would a reasonable writer do with such a decision in moving the story forward?
Thing about What-Ifs is that a lot of them often have severe consequences. Like, I love Sparking Zero's What-If about Vegeta rejecting Babidi's spell or Gohan training for 7 years and becoming strong enough to beat Dabura and stop Buu's unsealing. However, those would come with the caveat that Goku without a change of heart would just go back to Other World. Looking at Super, right from the beginning, that would cause big problems for Earth unless that was addressed.
8:52 erm actually the potara fusions tend to use goku's saiyan name, kakarotto, so the fusions name would probably be "pikkorotto" (which would probably be localized to piccoroto or piccoloto) edit: alternatively it could be kakoro/kakolo
I'm pretty sure vegeto uses kakarot because vegeta was part of him, there's no real reason a piccolo/goku fusion would use kakkarot, goku doset really identify with that name
Before watching the video: its why i moved onto doing fanfics within universe with original cast members but acknowledge the main cast's existence. I try to keep them separate until its time for them to mingle to do a few cool things before separating again. What ifs were cool like 10 years ago but I'm tired of them. So i hope AUs start to make a comeback for medias we like. After Watching: you're right. Its the small changes that gets the brain going for a story. Even i was thinking ahead of what could be done and make a tale from that
I also like Saitama because it’s taking so long like Superman and doing it right where instead of him being evil veil or having your weakness his life is just meaningless. He’s done everything he can do anything easily and that truly does suck for him because he left, he can do about itbecause it would put others in danger and it will be hard to find that he can’t do to be honest I do think Saitama is somewhat of hero still deep down with inside. He still has the want to help people to save people. It’s just it’s so easy. We just want something to do so I’m no longer boredom. awesome. I like how instead of overcome a challenge site is over, overcoming his boredom‘s life and that’s the true challenge because with Saitama and his villains becoming stronger or just his villains even though he’s the end of story character they’re starting to get on his level or at least closer
What if goku was trapped in the time chamber for 100 years would be a good story if 1. Goku could live for 100 more years without becoming too old to fight 2. The story was about goku getting out 3. The time chamber was an interesting setting for this story. As it stands it's just a place that gets reall hot and cold sometimes
3:38-I actually have an idea how that could work for a what if. Have Bulma go behind their back and wish Gero made a prisoner in secret with Piccolo playing warden so the others are still motivated to train up. There are no androids, but there's still a problem in the future and a Cell starting beef because the plan went off the rails
Couldn’t since gero would be stronger than Kami ATP and we know the dragon balls can’t do shit against people stronger than their creators This would only work if u believe dr gero was still human prior to the 3 years timeskip
I think the amount of both fan made and official what if stories in the dragon ball franchise just showcases how good the writing and storytelling is, with how even the tiniest of details can potentially change the story of a massive scale
Honestly, my biggest problem with many What Ifs is that a lot of the time the story doesn't change nearly enough. You have all these divergences and somehow the story still ends up with essentially the same arcs it had before, just with different characters being stronger or weaker than in canon. It all ends up feeling so samey after a while. There are only so many variations of Z and Super that I can take before it becomes stale. Why not spice things up? Throw in some creativity to take things in a new direction. For instance, if Future Gohan survives/defeats the Androids, don't just have him replace FutureTrunks. Maybe in that continuity they don't use the time machine at all. Instead. Bulma makes a Galactic dragon radar and we get a new space adventure. Maybe they run into the Heaters and/or the Cerelean Dragon Balls while trying to find New Namek?
@@Not_obligated2care I dont think that is necessarily a merit for Dragon Balls writing. Say, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, Attack on Titan. These are stories with multiple things about them that are superior to Dragon Ball, specially when it comes to writing. But the What Ifs arent as engaging or popular. I feel like that has more to do with Toriyama's no planning modus operandi, and how it kept things unpredictable lol
What if tien was betrayed and locked up in the time chamber where discovers the super human, and manages to learn super human 2,3,4,5,6,7,8... etc and then learna god ki by his own and then chiaotzu dies, the end.
I mean i can't remember which one one but there was a time chamber what if that yes, did make goku stronger but it made his friends not regonize him and fear him while goku's character became more darker and had to regain their trust that's a unique take on the story if you ask anyway at the end of the day what ifs are supposed to be dumb fun and not be better than the orginal story.
What if Goku was betrayed and locked in the hyperbolic timechamber and forced to goon for a million years
Foul
He will unlock ultra goonstinct 1000 and one shots zeno
I'm gonna hakai myself
He would be so strong he could one-goon zeno
I'm gonna hakai myself
I’m slowly moving away from what ifs, but I think there’s a space for them. A lot of the ones I’ve made have been crazy concepts that do end up with crazy power, but that’s not the focus. Sure, people like the power, but I just liked writing the character and changing them. They don’t always hit, but the fact that people like them i think it’s clear that there’s not only a spot for them but that they CAN be good and people CAN like them. Even the weird betrayed and trapped ones. I do think they get nuts sometimes, but they can just be fun. The betrayed and trapped idea came from the Latino community which did indeed use it as an excuse for extreme power fantasy. When I used that concept I didn’t focus on that. Goku did get crazy strong, sure, but that wasn’t the focus. Goku doesn’t like just getting strong just cuz, if he he has no one to put it up against.
The one you made was fire
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I'd say one of the biggest problem with DB what-ifs, is how a bunch of them seem scared of being suboptimal, forgetting the characters won't always be able to measure all their options with surgical accuracy, probably because the authors may be afraid of being criticized for making the characters dumb (even though they are sometimes)... or alternatively, the whole reason they're doing what-ifs WAS to make the characters smarter, losing all the development and nuance in the way to achieve that hollow goal.
Yooo I'm a fan I'm still waiting for what if Vegeta went to earth with Goku super
@@TheKorenji Yeah I agree with that. A lot of people like making everyone act as direct as possible, which I'm not a fan of at all
"Most people grow out of it."
_Side-eyes my stable of hundreds of self-insert OCs, and partially built plans for more._
Yes...most.
I have a whole problem with making Self Inserts. Personally I feel like people judge them too much, they’re not all even power fantasies, and what if they are? People can be allowed to have fun exploring their favorite worlds.
I thought I was the only one
I have an opposite problem where i'll make a self insert then immediately regret it.
I've always been a big fan of MasakoX most of his what if's are very story driven and character based rather than focused on fights and power he locks in the best when talking about why a character would do something or how other characters are feeling in a situation
Ironically I feel the best dragon ball what if's are ones that focus on growth or accepting both failure and success rather than how you can make a fight interesting
And that's why he is the goat, friezas and cooler what ifs are my favorite of his
Like his what if cell was good it shows not the cell Gohan fought but the one krillin and trunks killed is one the one who is the good guy
It's also why I'm a fan of Carthu and SmugStick. Even their stories show characters aren't invincible. There is much growth and development to be had before one can reach their true potential. Their what-ifs also focus on character growth and world-building. Not nearly to the same exact extent as Masako's stories *(No seriously, Masako's what-ifs feel like borderline audio dramas at times),* but pretty close all the same. One of my personal favorites I'd recommend to people is SmugStick's story of Goku growing up on the kai world. That one had a lot of good world-building.
Also, Masako's stories focusing on Z-Fighter Hercule and the reformed Turles. I really want those to come back one day and be completed.
But what if Tien had cool edit lore?
Just search the fan manga "an Earth without Goku" on amilova.
He does
@THEREALperfect_cell oh wow is there a channel I perhaps can find out about this lore?
@@Zethlynn ua-cam.com/video/_0MxZ5VhAqU/v-deo.htmlsi=Y5WhHlnLikuPJu9-
I, I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
*x gets trapped in the time chamber*
*screams hard*
*gets free*
Dont forget about *being betrayed*
The whole 'Trapped and Betrayed' thing is so backwards to me, like people will complain that stuff like Super are just fighting and no plot, but this is no different. It's like a Disneyland attraction where Goku is a circus monkey.
"Dance for us, Monkey!"
~ Freeza
Ik right what makes a lot of these videos so dumb is the fact characters are written too serious and off character
@elliotsturtplus340literally a what if had Goku using a more intelligent vocabulary, it put me off within seconds.
Now this is just me personally, but I'll defend that one SmugStick made where Kami became paranoid of Goku in the beginning. Because even though Goku became stronger (he unlocked all the forms up to SSJ3 before the events of Z), he wasn't unbeatable. He could still lose. And even after gaining his new strength, all his friends became rightfully leery of his new jaded attitude and how he just saw Earth as his personal gym. But fighting is only a part of the story. There was lots of character development all throughout not just for Goku but everyone else. Kami even apologizes to Goku later on, and Goku does get over his hatred. There was even some coll development for Vegeta and Buu.
Yeah, it was still a Bit out of character on Kami's part, but it was still one of the *Better* betrayed what-ifs that *I've* personally seen just off the overall execution alone. And one of the more tame examples. Seriously, look at how many of the others have Goku becoming Zeno-level right off the bat.
What if Fan Fiction writers were betrayed and trapped in the time chamber for 10 years, so they could practice writing more original stories?
Plot twist:
Their original stories suck more than their fanfiction because making something they don’t want ends up sucking the life out of their motivation to embrace the art of storytelling.
what if you were trapped and betrayed for an indefinite amount of time so you could appreciate fun
@sneakyfloats I was half joking
@@russiansoutherner17 if it worked for Z it can work forthe fanfics
@@sneakyfloatswhy should somebody appreciate what is fun to somebody else?
The things i find fun aren't fun or interesting for everybody.
What if GT Pan wasn't screwed over by the writers would definitely make for a fun story. She doesn't even need a Super Saiyan transformation. What she would need are actually good fights, a characterization consistent with the first two episodes on Earth, and not making her the damsel all the time.
True they could've given her Gohan's ultimate form!.
not just pan, i want to see a full rewrite of GT. the concept and story are gold, but the execution is lacking. theres infinite potential but noone cares because its GT
@@djinnspalace2119 Ngl, Yh, I don't think anyone has done this, But what if Goten went with Goku, Trunks, and Pan
All you really have to do is rewrite Goten, That's literally it
The whole Black Star saga and GT in general was botched. There should have been groups of warlords out there vying for supremacy a la movie villain gangs. And Trunks, Pan, and Goku all should have been heavily involved in the battles, with Pan and Trunks coming into their own, until the final 1-2 gangs start wiping out the rest.
Pit Goku against the villain, Trunks against the elite minion, Pan to wipe out the mooks, and wind up in a battle that turns into a slog where they all have to dig deep to win, with Trunks getting SS2 to beat the elite minion, and Pan eventually getting an upgrade after Goku and Trunks are beaten, finally able to hold her own against the villain and only winning due to using a clever technique. Then, they can finally go home and relax... Or so they think.
Uub should have pushed Baby Vegeta WAY harder. Likewise, Piccolo should not have actually died, even if he appeared to.
Then do better with Super 17, making it a full arc, and sub in Pikkon for Piccolo's role.
Have Piccolo depowering the black star balls after collecting them cause the evil dragons, and have the cast split up to defeat the lesser dragons. (Pan+Uub(+Bra?) take one, Gohan+Piccolo(+Videl?) take one, Krillin+18+Yamcha+Tien take one, Vegeta takes one, Goku takes one, Trunks+Goten take one) Then they can have Gogeta/Goku take the lead for the last one. Could've been a great sendoff to the whole cast, instead of just Goku.
@@djinnspalace2119 TotallyNotMark had a video where he rewrote GT how he'd like it. It's pretty good you should check it out
What if tien stopped being dumb and locked tf in the time chamber and kept a mewing and edging streak for 13788998939202094858594939301002039829 years
Second this
I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU
"What if Tien was actually rewarded for Locking the Fuck in?"
i call it the "chained up and betrayed fetish"
so, bondage and ntr?
Those memes about goku showing up in other manga are the best what-ifs
“You’re the scum of the universe, and I’m getting sick of it” 🗣️🔥🔥
2:40 Smugstick's is an exception
It focuses more on how that sffected goku mentally and how it strained his relationship with his loved ones
And even though it makes goku extremely overpowered it compensates by making Goku's opponents even stronger
2:02 the one who made it popular was also the only one that made it good
Everytime i saw it in recommendation immediately after the first one i felt like it was just copying
@@HyperJohnua what was the original one
@@dashingflashsmugstick but there's someone else who made it cool and realistic salad saiyan
@@A-0-K-GAMERyep salad saiyan’s take(s) are great since they’re accidental and they’re not trapped for too long, preventing them from breaking the plot, and he also puts the emotional side into it, especially for Gohan
@ yeah theres another one Goku got sealed in wise staff it's by carthu it was a one shot goku is only as strong as his Moro arc version
what if goku was betrayed and locked in the bedroom with chichi?
This is how Goten was born
My first exposure to this genre was Carthu Dojo’s channel. What drew me in besides the massive possible changes from the og story is that he tries to make sure it fits with the established world building of current canon DB. Often in other channels to add to the story elements from non canonical material such as GT and Hero’s are added (not that I’m complaining), while Carthu only really uses material that’s in canon Z-Super, which makes things easier for me to follow given that comparatively his What-If’s are simpler narrative wise.
0:53 I agree that Bra is a Mary Sue because of her power, but the part saying that everyone likes her is a lie. Pan gets very upset with her after the whole Majin incident and Vegetto has threatened to kill her in a flashback. She's viewed more as a menace and a freak than a loved member of U16. Now, a character that everyone instantly loves is, you guessed it, Mary Sue from U2 lol
I legitimately laughed out loud when you said "Mary Sue" and Bra from DBM popped up instead of the literal character "Mary Sue" from the same comic XDDD You're not wrong though!
When you think about it, Dragonball Daima is "What if Gomah was betrayed by EVERYONE and sealed inside the Demon Realm?"
Hold on, why is Toyotaro at fault for Beerus' powercreeping? As we all know, it's Akira Toriyama who collaborated and taught with his pupil, and by extension, the markerters wouldn't want Beerus to be showed up by Goku or Vegeta so soon if it means they cannot milk any new abilities or transformations.
It's true that I am assuming, but it's toyotaros manga that constantly wanking berrus while the anime dosent, and a character constantly scaling to be stronger than goku was never a problem in toryamas original manga, soi think it's a decent assumption to make
Tbh the only Dragon Ball What-if creator I consistently watch is Salad Saiyan. Imo there are indeed very few people who actually make good what-if stories. And personally, I think he's one of them. 👍
I should note before anyone asks that I'm not trying to belittle anyone else. This is a PERSONAL OPINION and I am not here to start arguments over this. I just wanted to share my perspective.
Salad Saiyan, Masako, and occasionally Carthu imo
Same, I LOVE that he'll just write a completely original story as DB what-if
What about my boy hyourinjutsu ?
@@TheArgentinianStealer The guy that makes those fight animations? Yeah he's cool. Tbh I had kinda forgotten about his series. 😅
The worst what if stories in my opinion are ones where everyone dies and the story has to abruptly end.
A good what if should leave the story open ended that a new story could be written.
I remember having ideas of “what if Dr Gero died in red ribbon army arc” “what if Dragon Ball killed off Vegeta” etc
My problem with DB What ifs is when they try to turn the light hearted Dragon Ball into a bloody, dark, edgy story. Its annoying because that not what dragon ball is at all
Most Dragon Ball fan stories can easily be summed up with that "He would not f*cking say that" meme.
I enjoy your videos because you seem pretty genuine and authentic with how you show these, I get your thumbnail drawings are nowhere perfect, but I like the imperfection that shows that all of us have room to improve.
I personally love Salad Saiyan, who’s actually done two separate trapped and betrayed series with Goku and Gohan and the other one being Vegeta and Trunks and does a very good job of keeping the story grounded even if the characters are stronger than they normally are.
What if tien got a low taper fade?
I like What If stories even in Dragon Ball because of how differently things could progress and many UA-camrs I watch who make such content think of ways for things to remain somewhat challenging for the main cast. Like, what if Goku turned Super Saiyan as a kid when Krillin died? It would certainly make him far more powerful than Demon King Piccolo and that arc can end much sooner, meaning no Piccolo Jr. And then, when Raditz arrives, Goku would be stronger than him anyway and he wouldn’t die, so no meeting King Kai, no learning Kaio-Ken and more importantly no learning the Spirit Bomb. Without Piccolo, there’s no Kami, and so no more Dragon Balls, so Vegeta and Nappa don’t go to Earth, at least for that reason (if Goku uses Super Saiyan against Raditz, that might be a reason for them to go but it’s just as possible they decide not to go for that same reason, or more likely Vegeta doesn’t believe a low-class warrior sent to such a weak planet could ever become a Super Saiyan and chalk up Raditz’s death to something else). Of course, such a What If has a ton of other possible routes too, and that’s why it’s so interesting.
2:35
I actually really likes salad saiyans version of this. It had big psychological effects on gohan and goku and it's interesting to see how it effects them
You should do, “what if people other than Goku actually mastered Kaioken?”
Has anyone here been trapped and betrayed in the Room of Spirit and Time?(Hyperbolic Time Chamber)
I mean, who hasn't am I right?
I un-ironically wrote my mother being trapped and betrayed in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. does that count?
I was trapped for 500 years. Unlocked Super Human 5, which increases my power level by 2
what if yurazah was locked and betrayed in the time chamber forced to trow it back for all eternity
What if Mike Ehrmantraut and Tony Tony Chopper were imprisoned in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?
That’s because there is no what if Mr Satan was the strongest
Edit I ment in dragon ball sparking zero also thanks for the video suggestions I’m going to watch all of them
Oh but there is…
There is one by masako
Spk0 sparking 0
there is
there's 2
The What If scenarios in the games are usually pretty thought provoking and usually are pretty good or funny
what if frieza was stuck in the timer chamber for 10 years and- wait thats already canon nvm.
I feel like a What If for Dragon Ball should be easy to write, and easy to make interesting. You have the blue print, just understand the characters you’re writing about, and you’re gold.
Subbed to help you get your Power Level over 9000.
Nice catch on the gohan getting angry scene and the theory on buu's plan
What ifs can be fun, but I think my pet peeve would be when a character feels like this ultimate solution to everything they can be to all situations. I love masakox, but his Gine what if felt like she felt like a vacuum to most issues and I stopped during cell when the main villain was smiling while dying to her because…he had a bit of her in his dna so he wanted to loose? It just felt too hokey and the drama was just too out of place for a dragon ball story to me.
maybe you should be betrayed and trapped in the hypertonic lion tamer for a billion years
OH MY GOD THAT DBH INTRO SENT ME WAY BACK DONT YOU DARE DO THAT AGAIN I WILL CRY
theres only so many times i can see the same villains be defeated by different characters until im over it. be creative, take some risks, heck bring in the movie villains but pls do something different.
i saw a tiktok about "what if cooler was introduced into canon like broly" and despite only being a 3 minute tiktok gave me much more enjoyment than any of these hour long videos ever did.
most what ifs change stuff, but they dont create anything.
1:02 👹👹👺Whawhahaht if the if Tien shin han locked locked you up
What if Cabba and Caulifla were all betrayed and locked in the time chamber and fell in love with each other?
I feel like if any slight changes happened, everyone would be dead
That is a great insight.
It's like an idea I utilized once about the TASM movies.
What if Peter knew that George was a police captain?
The dinner scene would have gone differently, resulting in a different dynamic between the two and Gwen.
It always involves betrayal or getting locked away in the time chamber, usually both
"What If Cell Turned Good" and "What If Frieza Turned Good" share a special place in my heart.
What if yurazah surpassed nappa who was locked in the hyperbolic time chamber for morbillion years
this was a great and interesting video to watch. crazy how you only have 8k subs you should have wayyyyyy more
Totally agree, thank you for vocalizing something ive felt for a long time. Im not opposed to “what ifs” in theory, but i want a “what if” that makes the characters more interesting not more powerful.
Frankly, id prefer a “what if” that makes the *enemies* stronger, forcing the z fighters to maximize their combined efforts, and go through character arch’s in order to gain more strength.
Hyourijutsus recent what if stories are some of my favourites
The best what ifs to me are the ones that bring the most changes in creative ways without going off-brand. Like What if Goku landed at Capsule Corp or what if Tarbel was sent to Earth. Where changing one little thing affects so may other things.
My what if ideas I was making while writing this comment:
1. What if there's was no Mexico?
2. What if Yamcha is the strongest, but he hides it?
3. What if Mr. Popo was white?
4. What if Krillin and Vegeta were 6ft?
5. What if master Roshi was gai?
6. What if Frieza was democrat?
7. What if Goku was hood?
8. What if Frieza was hairy?
9. What if saiyans weren't vegetables?
10. What if Vegeta married Makima?
1. Then we'd have a state called New Texas
5. eight gates roshi
9. They be fruits
Number 1 & 6 & 9 is so dumb stay on topic.
Hyourinjutsu is a good example to make good What Ifs.
what if goku was betrayed and trapped in the time chamber to edge for 4000 years
Ooo boy i get that a lot, trying to make a plot that doesnt make characters seem to overpowered is hard, ive been writing and rewriting my ocs for 2 years and i finally think we settled down on a story, soon diama will finish and me and my friend will talk about story for that when it cones out, most likely well just say they dont join them, i dont know until we actually talk about it
What if goku was trapped in the hyperbolic time chamber with P diddy and learned the power of baby oil
Diddy will clap gokus cheek converting him to his team making goku learn the art of baby oil.
Once they are out Diddy and goku will found kid gotenks and trunks and clap their cheeks with baby oil.
Vegeta would be enraged allowing babidi to make him an majin, yet majin vegeta would be nothing infront of Goku and Diddy high power level.
Eventually, however Diddy would try to riz pan which will be the final straw for goku as he come back to his senses and unleash his long kamehamaeha on him
what if goku and vegeta were trapped and betrayed in the time chamber for 900B years then defeated the dark omni king from the 9th dimension
What if Goku and Vegeta got stuck as vegito and impregnated kefla?
9:06 Well, Piccolo kinda screwed up when he gambled on finishing one of the androids so Cell couldn't become perfect. If it wasn't for Piccolo's energy Cell most likely wouldn't have been able to locate 17 and 18 given their lack of energies for Cell to sense.
It depends on who's writing it. You can have interesting stories as long put alot of effort onto it.
Sumgstick made a actual good trapped what if
Yeah smugsticks makes the one in a hundred good ones😭
What if Yurazah was TRAPPED and BETRAYED in the time chamber and forced to make TRAPPED and BETRAYED fanfiction.
Nooooo!
he would escape and fight the ALSO TRAPPED and EVEN MORE BETRAYED grand priest who is EVIL because he is TRAPPED and also BETRAYED
@@Yuujiji and then they all get super pregnant.
I would recommend Hyourinjutsu if someone would want to see well animated What-Ifs that will more often than not make sense while being a spectacle, even when the video doesn't have an actual fight
What makes the problem of a character being too strong especially unfortunate in dragon ball what ifs is that there’s built in ways the world of db can be used for the concept to not become boring.
What I mean by that is a lot of villains are only as strong as the main cast they’re fighting, such as Cell taking the dna and data from the strongest fighters for his development, Buu being able to absorb overconfident (usually very strong) characters and gain their power, Zamasu stealing someone in the main cast’s body, Moro directly stealing energy (and later even abilities) from the people he’s fighting, etc.
I think a good example of this concept of ‘stronger fighters means that the villains are stronger to compensate’ can be seen in a lot of Salad Sayains what ifs, some of which have really out there concepts that you would think would entirely destroy any semblance of a story, like what if Goku has Frieza’s potential.
Honestly my favorite what is stories are the ones that do not deal with the sayains. I always find it far more interesting to know about how the earthlings deal with the threat
For the small what if...
I understand why he wasn't mentioned, but Tien could also work as a fusee.
My favourite what ifs are on the line of.
What if raditz was good?
What if future gohan survived instead of future trunks?
What if kami & piccolo never split to begin with?
Yes, in some instances there will be times where it's just a power fantasy. I think what separates the good what ifs from the bad what ifs, in any medium, is what the person telling you does with these characters. Dragon Ball, for instance, has characters like Future Cell or Zamasu. If these come from timelines connected to the what if, you get insurmountable odds.
There's also the perspective of roles to consider. Like what does be trapped in the time chamber do to a character's psyche, and what will their development look like. If you take a character and do something major to them, will they be changed or is the journey about getting that character back to who they used to be.
Yeah, there are people who just do the power fantasy; however, there are plenty of others who take into account what the change to these characters means to the story. They utilize it to tackle a character from another perspective. There's always more than one way to appreciate your favorite character. Sometimes they just what to have fun with the characters they like.
I like the trapped in the time chamber idea aside from the fact i swear every story with goku has him hook up with Caulifla and cheat on chi chi (and have a child with her and the kid (goten) is constantly in ultra instinct due to gokus training while he trains Caulifla ultra instinct)
Honestly the best what ifs are the ones that allow characters to shine together. One of my favorites is what if Radiz turned good since it not only adds a new dimension to the relationship of him and Goku but also slowly builds up to have Radiz become stronger to eventually prove himself to Vegeta. While also allow Launch and other characters to have roles as well. But I agree mindless power up what ifs are boring. Especially the time chamber ones. They feel so stupid that anyone would commit to it and always end up feeling grimdark removing the charming aspects of characters personalities.
that same what-if still feels like it focuses too much on the OCs of the writer
@@MagicGonads A bit with how they wrote the child but I do like the major focus to Radiz.
what if the worlds of shonen jump manga merged together and there was a justice league / avengers like team made up of the protags of each
What if Goku got betrayed and formed a harem of demons in the highschool DXD dimension
Why people ship Goku and whatshername from that series? What’s the origin of that meme?
@AarturoSc I know there's a famous alternate universe where he actually gets betrayed and then goes to a demon universe and has a child with a demon, maybe the meme is that the demon universe is the highschool DXD universe?
Why is high school dxd so famous 😭
Congrats!
If youre gonna do over 9000 please be the rare breed and do one wit Ginyu screaming about Goku being over 180k lol
Here’s some randoms I thought of-
-what if buuhan wa sable to unlock beast while fighting vegito.
-what if mecha Frieza took gokus advice and trained before coming back to earth.
-what if krillin never destroyed the larva cell in the current timeline, gaining a lot more data and power
I don't have a problem with the concept of what if stories. I particularly enjoy those that are cross overs/mix verse. However, in regards to crossovers/mix verse stories, I wish there were more with Vegeta (or vegeta tagging along) or gohan getting sent to another universe.
Recently just listened to one where goku and Vegeta were accidentally sent to the DC universe after there world/verse got destroyed by Darsied
Thank you for the over 8000 drop 🥰
I like a fanmanga called "an Earth without Goku". The way the earthlings have to go through all the original sagas without the original main charactet is quite interesting and well written.
MasakoX is the only consistent what if youtuber that I enjoy all the time. Genuinely has amazing storytelling.
Not really, he blends too much Dragonball Abridged in his canon
@gotmog22 Not really?
My problem with a lot of what ifs is the story kind of devolves into the main story but slightly different
this is a thing about dragon ball, in some shows, if you change something the entire story derails really easily, but in dragonball, no mater what you change, freeza still exists, gero is working on some robots, and babidi is comming for buu eventually
@@yurazah😂👍 true
I mean depending on what, that usually is what a "WHAT IF" is. Not meant to be an entirely different story, just a diverging point where a ton of stuff changes due to butterfly effect things.
@@yurazah in some genre of What If, but What If we treated What If as if it was What If the story diverged as a narrative decision during the development of the story in its original context/What Would a reasonable writer do with such a decision in moving the story forward?
How do you feel about the fanmanga dragon ball kakumei
I like it alot, great art, and they really know how to show the massive scale of fights, but its a bit lacking in the signature dragon ball comedy
I would actually love anime of some of Masako's stories.
my favorite what if's are usually crossover what if's cause they tend to be the most unique
for lot of what ifs Ive seen, one trope seems to be skipping buu saga entirely
Thing about What-Ifs is that a lot of them often have severe consequences. Like, I love Sparking Zero's What-If about Vegeta rejecting Babidi's spell or Gohan training for 7 years and becoming strong enough to beat Dabura and stop Buu's unsealing. However, those would come with the caveat that Goku without a change of heart would just go back to Other World. Looking at Super, right from the beginning, that would cause big problems for Earth unless that was addressed.
8:52 erm actually the potara fusions tend to use goku's saiyan name, kakarotto, so the fusions name would probably be "pikkorotto" (which would probably be localized to piccoroto or piccoloto)
edit: alternatively it could be kakoro/kakolo
I'm pretty sure vegeto uses kakarot because vegeta was part of him, there's no real reason a piccolo/goku fusion would use kakkarot, goku doset really identify with that name
Before watching the video: its why i moved onto doing fanfics within universe with original cast members but acknowledge the main cast's existence. I try to keep them separate until its time for them to mingle to do a few cool things before separating again.
What ifs were cool like 10 years ago but I'm tired of them. So i hope AUs start to make a comeback for medias we like.
After Watching: you're right. Its the small changes that gets the brain going for a story. Even i was thinking ahead of what could be done and make a tale from that
Please no. No more Coffeshop/High School AUs.
The self insert OCs, the Betrayal Time Chamber stories, and the crossover what if’s are easily the worst Dragon Ball What Ifs.
I also like Saitama because it’s taking so long like Superman and doing it right where instead of him being evil veil or having your weakness his life is just meaningless. He’s done everything he can do anything easily and that truly does suck for him because he left, he can do about itbecause it would put others in danger and it will be hard to find that he can’t do to be honest I do think Saitama is somewhat of hero still deep down with inside. He still has the want to help people to save people. It’s just it’s so easy. We just want something to do so I’m no longer boredom. awesome. I like how instead of overcome a challenge site is over, overcoming his boredom‘s life and that’s the true challenge because with Saitama and his villains becoming stronger or just his villains even though he’s the end of story character they’re starting to get on his level or at least closer
What if goku was trapped in the time chamber for 100 years would be a good story if
1. Goku could live for 100 more years without becoming too old to fight
2. The story was about goku getting out
3. The time chamber was an interesting setting for this story. As it stands it's just a place that gets reall hot and cold sometimes
Wait when did u surpass nappa's power level
that what-if is such a meme nowadays
What if gohan just pissed off zeno and now everyone he loves is dead until he starts fighting again
3:38-I actually have an idea how that could work for a what if. Have Bulma go behind their back and wish Gero made a prisoner in secret with Piccolo playing warden so the others are still motivated to train up. There are no androids, but there's still a problem in the future and a Cell starting beef because the plan went off the rails
Couldn’t since gero would be stronger than Kami ATP and we know the dragon balls can’t do shit against people stronger than their creators
This would only work if u believe dr gero was still human prior to the 3 years timeskip
Hi dinosaur guy I’m new and I do agree with this. :3
I think the amount of both fan made and official what if stories in the dragon ball franchise just showcases how good the writing and storytelling is, with how even the tiniest of details can potentially change the story of a massive scale
Lol
Honestly, my biggest problem with many What Ifs is that a lot of the time the story doesn't change nearly enough. You have all these divergences and somehow the story still ends up with essentially the same arcs it had before, just with different characters being stronger or weaker than in canon. It all ends up feeling so samey after a while. There are only so many variations of Z and Super that I can take before it becomes stale.
Why not spice things up? Throw in some creativity to take things in a new direction. For instance, if Future Gohan survives/defeats the Androids, don't just have him replace FutureTrunks. Maybe in that continuity they don't use the time machine at all. Instead. Bulma makes a Galactic dragon radar and we get a new space adventure. Maybe they run into the Heaters and/or the Cerelean Dragon Balls while trying to find New Namek?
You could literally do that with any anime
@@ImaginarytechniquehollowSpunk I mean you can but it just won’t be as interesting as dragon ball. It feels so limited and boring.
@@Not_obligated2care I dont think that is necessarily a merit for Dragon Balls writing. Say, One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, Attack on Titan. These are stories with multiple things about them that are superior to Dragon Ball, specially when it comes to writing. But the What Ifs arent as engaging or popular. I feel like that has more to do with Toriyama's no planning modus operandi, and how it kept things unpredictable lol
What if tien was betrayed and locked up in the time chamber where discovers the super human, and manages to learn super human 2,3,4,5,6,7,8... etc and then learna god ki by his own and then chiaotzu dies, the end.
I mean i can't remember which one one but there was a time chamber what if that yes, did make goku stronger but it made his friends not regonize him and fear him while goku's character became more darker and had to regain their trust that's a unique take on the story if you ask anyway at the end of the day what ifs are supposed to be dumb fun and not be better than the orginal story.