How The Owl House fixes the biggest problems with Romances
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2022
- How The Owl House fixes the biggest problems with Romances
Romances in adventure shows tend to take time away from the more interesting storytelling and world building, and tend to jut straight up suck. yet somehow, Dana Terrace's Owl House manages to fix these problems and craft a romance that can make even the likes of me have come to find it compelling. The question is... how?
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#theowlhouse #pridemonth2022 #danaterrace - Ігри
Who knew there were so many aroace lumity fans like myself?
theres a nice handful of us
LUMITY IS FOR THE AROACES SO IS LILLITH SHE BELONGS TO US
Lol same here aro ace but constantly dying from lumity adorableness
Yess
I'm not aro-ace, but my best friend is and she is too, a Lumity fan.
The kiss scene was smooth like when I was watching I was like "why is it suddenly smooth" and then the kiss happen so that's where the whole season 2 budget went
Don't u mean season 3 budget
That scene didn't have any extra money go into it. That was James Baxter, practically animation god
crikey!
@@KainCarthyst i think that scene wasn't animated by james baxter
@@mayyyy7749 cool... it was though.
Also they intentionally avoided stupid tropes, like when Amity gets Luz's phone and respects her privacy where every other show would have had her peek for fear of "infidelity" which is its own whole thing.
And Miraculous went as far as making the protagonist steal her love interest's phone !
@@jujublue4426 Don't even talk about Miraculous & all its clichés/harmful depictions.
Yes! Respecting your partner's privacy and trusting them is important! I love how they handled that conflict.
100%!! I'm in a committed relationship..we have access to each others phones but I trust him enough to not snoop, I only play games on his phone and answer texts if he asks me to for him; this is how I believe healthy relationships should be and shows tend to get it wrong.
Yes!!!!! When that came up, I was like, "pleaaaase don't go there, that would be so dumb and ruin her character," and it actually deepened her character and made me respect the writing when she didn't!
I feel like something a lot of stories miss is that a romance should have a purpose in the story. It should elevate the characters, drive the plot, provide motivation, SOMETHING beyond having romance for romance's sake (hello every shoehorned in romantic subplot). Here, Luz and Amity's relationship strengthens their characters, pushes the plot, connects them to other characters, and serves the bonus purpose of being absolutely frickin adorable.
the owl house's greatest strength is its ability to weave plot threads and character arcs into each other so that nothing feels unmotivated and the pacing remains tight.
Me in the corner taking notes: mhm yes yes the writing is strong with this one
There's this essay on AO3 called "why do non canon ships become so popular" that really explain that well
@@MrAlltheThingsYT yeaaaaaap, nothing seems forced
@@MrAlltheThingsYT Yeah
As an ace myself, I agree 100%.
Any other shows with relationships just feel one sided, forced, & completely separated from the plot itself. & they always gross me out.
The Owl House on the other hand, just works so well. Like you said, they have chemistry. It feels natural, & just part of the show, which is great for the LGBT representation. The build up to their relationship & eventually the kiss scene just works so well.
I mean the show is just so well written and directed
Mhm!
As an aro/ace, I totally agree!
Aroace here! Totally agree, Lumity doesn't feel rushed (looking at you, Starco) and has this perfect pacing. It doesn't feel odd in the story, but actually adds to it instead of taking it away.
Let's face it, The Owl House will be a show that will be well remembered, talked about, compared to, and more for easily 20 years or more. It's that good. The romance, the developments for all the characters, even the animation, and more are all examples of when someone can do more than push something or hit stupid checkboxes, and more. As even the Ghostbusters once said..."Something good... something pure..." well you get the idea, this show is all of that.
the fact that Luz even says while she's apologizing that yes she's upset over her dad, but that's also NOT an excuse for what she did. she's explaining herself without making excuses or undermining Amity's feelings. it's so so healthy and I was so glad they included that
The fact that Mako and Korra didn't take notice of the other's problems(most of the times)was what let to the inevitable downfall of their relashionship.
So even if it is not a good relashionship, I believe it still makes sense
I do like how the writers recognized that in season 2, though I still stand by their relationship should never have been written in the first place as it distracts from the overarching plot
@@MrAlltheThingsYT Yeah completely agree with you on that one. Romance subplot doesn't bother me but I just couldn't stand the obsession the writers had to make them intrusted in the other for no particular reason and this early in the story(even if they didn't know season 1 will not be the last)
Btw forgot to mention it but great video!
@@MrAlltheThingsYT Idk I think it just solidifies Korras Character. But yes it was distracting I didnt often care enough tbh. I care more about Bolin.
the problem with Korra was they needed 24 episode season to tell a full story and do enough world building with character relationships and not just romantic ones. Each character needed at least another episode each to better develop them. 12 episodes isn't enough time to reintroduce the world the main cast, supporting cast, main antagonist and romance sub plot. They rushed and the studio shafted them at every turn. really sad it could have been great.
@@anonymouslyknown6530 was more on Nickelodeon - the animating studio was just there to animate
I'm asexual aromantic and normally relationships in media feel forced, stilted. There isn't any real emotion behind them. Why do you think fanfiction exists? It's so we can portray these characters with an actual healthy relationship. Lumity does this for us. Amity and Luz actually communicate with each other, they ask for and give consent during serious moments. They don't immediately kiss as soon as they find out they want to date, it's a natural progression where they genuinely just want to be close with one another, they just want to hold hands and be together. It makes their first kiss all the more natural, like something brought out of true love for one another. They have one of the best relationships I've ever seen. This is one of the few romantic subplots that I can actually bear to sit through.
As an AroAce myself I totally agree. Every time I see couples in media I just want to rewrite their love stories. Lumity is one of the fictional couples that I genuinely like and don't want to rewrite their story.
You think fan fiction is used to tell “healthy relationships”?😂
@@alibrennan5977 if you find the right ones
But yes, most of them are questionable
Bro what's with all the people announcing their asexuality in this video's comments? It's only about good writing vs bad writing and making characters you can be attached to and care about. Your personal sexuality shouldn't really factor in here to fictional characters.
@@blacksesamecandies I mostly use it as a way to dissuade people from saying stuff like "oh well maybe you just haven't found the right person yet"
Like, I just want to share my opinion and so I got in the habit of saying that at first so people don't automatically assume smth
I love how when amity finds a comfort place it's at the grom tree they they made 🥲
Very romantic cherry blossom tree ya got there 😏
And the purple and blue sky (very subtle owl house)
@@MrAlltheThingsYT ikr-
@@MrAlltheThingsYT frick colour blindness, i didn't notice that...
@@WhyneedanAlias frick me being stupid, I didn't notice that either
@@DangerVAsame
I love how realistic their relationship is. It's their first and they're both awkward teens, it felt scarily accurate to how my ex and I were when we were dating. Plus them starting off as friends and keeping that friendship going through them being girlfriends is something all writers should take note on. You can't have a good romantic relationship without a good friendship imo
“You can't have a good romantic relationship without a good friendship imo”
👍🏻I kinda agreed tbh
As someone who is VERY aroace and SUPER romance repulsed, you just put into words why I enjoy the romance plots in the Owl House anyway, despite every other romance plot in any other show making my skin crawl. Lumity and Raeda are very common relationships seen in fiction (nervous teenage romance vs amicable exes), but this show handles them so incredibly well. Even Huntlow, which I have... mixed opinions about, is handled better than most shows.
Lumity is good for all the reasons you just described. It's awkward and sweet and yet really mature, the two of them clearly LOVE spending time with eachother, and they're there for eachother when they need it. I've seen people complain about the lack of tension in their relationship, but I genuinely don't think there needs to be tension, their personal issues and how their relationship interacts with those (Amity's self-worth problems from Eclipse Lake, Luz hiding her feelings behind manic overperformance in Reaching Out) is more than enough.
Raeda is such a good example of the exes who are secretly still in love with eachother but don't want to admit it, a trope I usually loathe but is done so well here that I wouldn't have it any other way. Raine and Eda still flirt with eachother, there's romantic tension and clearly they have a lot of stuff they need to talk about, but they have their priorities straight! Their loving looks and sweet conversations are woven seamlessly into the Saving The World plot, to the point where they actually enhance eachother instead of being detrimental to eachother. Their history as childhood friends and how absolutely smitten Raine was with Eda just makes it better - it helps that Them's The Breaks Kid is also a phenomenal episode.
With Huntlow it really depends on how they handle it, because so far in the show, it's very obvious that the crush is one-sided. Hunter is very, VERY awkwardly in love with Willow, but considering the whole Having Friends thing is new to him as well, I doubt he knows how to handle that, and Willow has shown no signs of reciprocating. It wouldn't be terrible if they got together, but I honestly hope they don't, and just stay very close friends, both because Willow clearly sees Hunter only as a friend, and because with Hunter's very abusive past, it's important for his character to learn what normal, healthy rejection looks like, and how to cope with it.
De dónde rayos sacas que Hunter está enamorado de willow?
fr dude!
I don't think hunter is in love with willow because I don't think he knows what love even is think about it for a moment his only relationship (before he met Luz) was with Belos an abusive manipulator who only saw him as a means to an end it was not until he met luz, willow and gus that he began to experience a positive relationship after all he is 16 and has never had a real friend and he is feeling emotions he never has before.
@@alguienmas5098 bc there's a few scenes of him blushing at her but only lightly
As another romance-repulsed aroace I agree with literally everything you said
If The Legend of Korra was created in 2022, I would think the creators would of be able to write an excellent love story progression between Korra and Asami(and cancel the whole Mako mess). Considering it was before gay marriage was legalized, they had to FIGHT Nickelodeon to just include that hand-holding scene at the very end of the series. Thankfully, we got more KorraxAsami scenes in the comics(and hopefully in the Korra movie coming out in 2026!).
As for The Owl House, I was a little late to the game and did know about the LGBTQ+ representation before going into it. So seeing Lumity, Willow's two dads, and Raine being non-binary wasn't a surprise. But as you said, Dana wrote in all of it SO WELL. THIS is the type of LGBTQ+ I want to see in children's cartoons(and shows in general). As a 24-year-old lesbian, I would have loved to see this show as a kid. Amity and Luz's chemistry was so strong. It's a shame that Disney cut the third season short(at least we get 3 44 minute episodes).
We're getting a Korra movie?!
@@amandalynn4979 yep! Also a Kyoshi movie(2024) and a Zuko movie(2025). All are going to be in theaters
Your comment made me realize I got the number of episodes for season 3 wrong, I thought it was 4.. :(
3 44 minute episodes doesn't seem like a lot, but remember, that's like a total of 6 regular length episodes
@@bideru1903 yeah so at least it was a decent compromise. A full 20 episode season would of been great though 😭
I write literature, not shows, but I AM saving this in my "for writing" playlist and keeping this in my head for the next romances I write, because poor old me has barely any experience in healthy romantic relationships but I still adore seeing them in fiction.
Glad to be helpful to writers of all stripes!
A fanfiction writer like me, I presume?
@@r211Afan That too. I mostly write original, but I have been writing short stuff of The Owl House, also The Promised Neverland and Undertale. But, again, mostly original projects.
Same! I want to create stories of my own one day and this is very useful to me
Never have I seen a fictional relationship more realistic than Lumity
I thing I like about lumity is that it never gets in between the plot and that it usually ends up being able to be placed into the main plot. And also I like how Luz and Amity’s relationship isn’t like their only trait after they got together.
I think breakups should happen in shows tbh. But either way, it should come as a focus to what they have learned from this relationship, together or not. Because literally lack of communication problem is EVERYWHERE.
I mean same but when it’s off screen why they broke up it sounds like a major waste of time
Showing breakups is fine, I guess, but the issue is moreso that healthy, stable relationships get a lot less representation in shows than horrible, abusive, or failing ones. It's refreshing to see a couple actually work through problems rather than their relationship just being used for the purposes of drama over and over again.
Also, peoples' personalities and expectations can be affected by the media they watch. I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is everywhere in real life in part because so little media spends time "teaching" people what actual healthy relationships are.
That kind of happens in season 2 Reaching Out when Luz keeps secrets from amity, but they make up
As an aroace myself I do agree that I would prefer LESS romance stories, relationships, and subplots in adventure fantasy shows UNLESS they are written as well as this.
It is also one of the few examples of a healthy relationship where the characters make mistakes yes but they COMMUNICATE and work through there problems. Noone plays the "my problems are worse than yours" game or "if you REALLY love me you'll be my personal therapist and punching bag" OR the absolutely most ANNOYING trope of "oooo I misheard / read something out of context and now we're immediately broken up even though I had no reason to think my partner would say or do this EVER but DRAAAAAAAMAAAAA so I immediately believe random antagonist who I KNOW is not on our side AND is a lier over my partner" aka dumb brain for plot convince / I'm a bad writer syndrome .
The only time they got close to tat was when Amity couldn't understand Luz's fever brain texts and hunter was able to trigger her parents abuse reaction to stress that King almost IMMEDIATELY corrects for her xnd her reaction is "oh duh Luz is too nice to say those thing to me" and there is no stupid getting back together after a misunderstanding arc.
sorry for the rant but it is just so nice to see a show NOT fall into unrealistic toxic relationship tropes that some shows try to pass off as normal.
Buddy you don’t need to be aroace to feel like that
@@jadedesigns6171 yah but it doesn't help lol
Which is why Lore Olympus is the only romance story I love (not to mention there are plenty of interesting subplots too)
Also hi fellow aroace!! :D
@@rockfan243 romance in media is just bad
Fever brain be hits different. My ceiling becomes a mosaic art piece. And my thought patterns jump from a to z!
One of the biggest problems I see in romances(fictional and real) that TOH dealt with beautifully...the *MISCOMMUNICATION* trope!
They might have had some hiccups here and there but they quickly fix it, and Amity is actually very understanding and patient with Luz.
There is no demands, just a question for honesty.
No one goes over the boundaries of the other, or if they do they apologize in the same episode.REALLY apologize.
Frankly, their relationship is probably the healthiest one I've *ever* seen out of fictional works(no matter if books, TV shows, games, etc.).
Also the misunderstanding trope between the two actually helped the characterisation of both hunter and amity, serving an actual purpose to the show’s narrative.
I think the best relationship to come out of ATLA and I will die on this hill was Sokka and Suki. Literally the best couple dynamic whenever they had screentime together.
Honestly I don’t like the writing of the romantic relationships in ATLA. Don’t get me wrong, I love the show, but the romance really is the weakest link. Suki and Sokka are the only couple I really like.
@@seyspectra Same here, the constant "will they wont they" with aang and katara was so drawn out and felt out of place in the story for me, which is the only issue I've ever have with the show
Honestly Lumity has to be my favorite ship so far, not because it’s a gay relationship, I typically have a thing against ALL cartoon relationships because of how forced they feel to me.. Straight or gay or bi, they just feel very much wedged into this plot of adventure aND I WANTED TO SEE THE MAGIC PLEASE-
But this one? Not at all!
They feel so well developed on their own and together, chemistry is great and I actually find myself finding their dynamic lovely for once!
the only reason why toh did get to have their relationship become fleshed out is because of the efforts of the previous shows. she-ra, tlok and steven universe paved the way for sapphic representation for the owl house to be possible. cool stuff btw!!
2:18 I feel like a big exception to this are queer romances, not because the "all build off, no pay off" doesn't apply but simply because there is no other choice.
I'm sure a lot of writers would love for their queer romance to be introduced sooner, but companies like Disney and co. would axe them immediently, owl house being the perfect example for this. So they got no other choice but to write it that way.
As someone who's had many partners in the past I can say that mutual support is _Super_ important, both in practice and to showcase in media, and it's been such a breath of fresh air to see how genuinely supportive Luz and Amity are to eachother
0:00 THIS WAS EVERYONE WHEN THEY SAW THIS SCENE
Fr
It was even me
i mistaked this as a channel i would usually watch but no the quality of the video is amazing when i think of a channel with 70-100 subs i think of low quality equipment like a 5 dollar mic sloppy editing skills and just not too much effort but this video was amazing defiantly leaving a sub and a like to help out the channel
thank you
the owl House: they're in a relationship.
disney: a friend relationship, right
TOH:
disney: *a friend relationship, right?*
How to write romance for television first tip:
Actually know which characters are going to be a romantic pair before you start writing episodes.
Second tip:
Make sure the characters, I don't know, like each other.
Bonus tip:
If you "will they/won't they" the audience for the entire run only to get the characters together at the last possible moment of the last possible episode: no one will find your body.
To be fair, Anakin and Padme were never meant to be a healthy relationship. They're both pretty stunted, Anakin's family being literally lacking a father, growing up as a slave and then being freed only to later be raised by monks who scold him for missing the only person he ever had in his live. And Padme being groomed into being a queen and ruling a whole planet at 15 years old. It's a wonder she turned out as emotionally mature as she did, but she does have a fixation on fixing on people's problems. They get together in hiding, after Anakin looses his mom, all while civil war breaks out around them. Their unhealthy relationship is what leads Anakin to the dark side, and remember that starts with him being a creep and it ends with him choking her. It's written to be awful
now i finally know how to make proper relantionships for my series
thing is
now i need characters to actually get together-
I mean you can always write fanfiction with pre-existing characters.
@@phoenixofgrandeur2387 but then i worried like if i get something wrong about the character and it sparks controversy-
@@cleeen1027 you can use the characters from my unfinished book... If I ever get around to writing it.
@@phoenixofgrandeur2387 wowza, really? now i just need info about them and motivation
I want to have a relationship like Luz and Amity 😭
When a 13 year old has a better relashionship than you
😔✋
@@gus7807 14, but i see your point
When I saw the video I thought this would have a bit more views! Keep up the great work! :)
Indeed
the fact a ''childeren cartoon'' from disney thats about magic is the most realistic relationship i have seen in my entire life really say something about how often writers make relationships either unhealthy, unrealistic or just both
0:06 in this moment in time specifically, the sound barrier and all glass objects in the milky-way seemed to shatter, from the frequency of many, many fans squealing and screaming after that kiss-
They're my OTP,
Many times I feel that when two characters become a couple, "they lose individual development" I mean, many times they are limited to: "A is B's partner" and "B is A's partner" and their development as characters is slowed down. But I feel that in The Owl House, both Luz and Amity, after formalizing their relationship, have continued to grow, each on their own and also thanks to the other, without the fact that they are in a relationship holding them back in their personal development.
I think another aspect of their relationship that resonates is how innocent it is. It’s really driven home by the characters and the narrative that these two are still kids. There isn’t some perverse sexualization of two girls. It’s two kids who are just learning how to love someone else, how to treat someone you care about. Especially with the parental relationships we see early on they clearly have no idea how to be a partnership but the support and care they show each other helps them both to break their individual cycles or generational trauma. Camila has succumbed to the shame and grief that life forced on her and is desperate for Luz not to go through what she did and it turns her into an absent and distant person. Eda is so wrapped up in her perceived monstrosity that she isolates herself to the point of harm. Odalia and Alador have a toxic and unstable relationship that centers around odalias blatant narcissism and accentuates aladors enabling tendencies. But luz and amity succeed where their parents fail. Luz drives her connection with others, she lets her grief feed her passion and love. Amity let’s her ambition guide her to be better, to be happier without letting it consume her. She grows and changes to be the opposite of what her mother wanted her to be, not out of spite but out of love. It’s a beautiful and more importantly kind love story. We can learn to love and to be the things that we admire in the world around us. I’m not crying you are.
i 1000% agree. not only to Luz and Amity have amazing chemistry and conversations, but they understand each other and understand that they mean a lot to each other. also, Reaching out is my favourite episode too so i'm very glad we share the same opinions about those two :)
Also an asexual here! With romantic relationships, I always feel like they’re unnecessary and often can be done without them. Of course, I still have an appreciation for ships and such, but most of the time I’d rather there not be romance at all.
HOWEVER! With lumity, I was actively enjoying their screen time together and laughing at the gay panic as they found their love! It never took away from the show and it never felt unnecessary or uncomfortable. Sure, they had their cringe moments but they’re 14! They can be cringe! I feel like it would be more shocking if they weren’t lol
Anyway, I love lumity. I don’t actively seek out content of it or get super hyped when they have some cute moments but I still love their relationship. It’s healthy, it’s cute, it’s supportive, and it’s just overall well integrated into the story.
Their relationship also prompted character arcs for them, allowing them the change as people which furthered the plot so it has storyline uses as well!
The thing I love about lumity is how there was a natural progression and you could see them in a relationship, as opposed to torturing us with a 'will they, won't they' scenario for an entire series.
I also love how they don’t rush any relationship in the show❤️
I hate when writers act like fighting is chemistry. Lumity works cuz they're not constantly at each other's throats. They actually like each other! Cuz people get into relationships with people they like!
“The relationship between the superboy and Martin lady amounts to NOTHING”
Me having seen the continuation seasons on HBO max where they get married: “are you sure about that”
They're sweet in the beginning, but i was really off-put by Megan manipulating him
@@shyboywithnolife2781Called character development🤦🏿♂️She’s not from earth, earths laws and customs are secondary to her beliefs if they conflict.
This also pushed for plot development as superboy learns to not only stand up for himself but also learn boundaries which you can actually see in later episodes
What's nice about Lumity is that it feels organic, (due to the points given in the video) and actually earned. It just melds together with the other moving pieces of the story. In a way though we're luck Lumity has come so far. Dana Terrace literally fought tooth and nail for it and at the cost of having a short season 3. Because Disney claimed it didn't "fit their brand" which is a laugh because of how much they're merchandising off of pride month.
I always assumed Mako and Korra being a hot mess of a romantic relationship was due to the show originally being only a mini series. Plus clashing personalities/ immaturity. It could also be how the show was originally supposed to be a mini series in addition to Nickelodeon's terrible management.
Deadass I think the kiss made the whole community collectively cheer in unison
Let’s not forget we missed out on an extended Luz abs gang on earth shenanigans
this is why I'm pro story. I don't care what the relationship is, as long as it is believable in the story.
Thank you Dana
(Any/all)
Thank you for talking about this. Maybe it’s cause I’ve seen so many toxic relationships, especially just everyone misunderstanding what a relationship even is, but Lumity is just such a refreshing break from that all, and you explaining why helps so much. I couldn’t help but notice myself how actually teaching impressionable audiences how you should treat a spouse and what-not comes a lot from media and it’s so great to see all the representation done right in the Owl House. 😊 I’m literally gonna ugly cry when this show ends 😔, it’s helped me so much to realize what more realistic problems look like and healthy ways to deal with them.
Another thing I think helps is that even once they are together, there is still buildup. Sometimes, the characters start dating with a kiss, and then nobody is hooked anymore because all is said and done. In TOH, there is still buildup for other things, while the characters themselves grow closer in their relationship, keeping us hooked the whole way.
i love lumity so much. i think most relationships in shows or movies are either perfect with no issues or there is always a problem. with lumity, there’s issues here and there but not every second of everyday. idk if that’s why i like it so much but i definitely think you did a good analysis on what makes it great
Counter point to how hard you went on Korra: it can be just as important to showcase an unhealthy relationship where they come out of it putting in genuine communication, forgiveness and effort to still maintain the friendships after the fact, because even though you aren’t romantically compatible you can still be great friends. Instead of either totally cutting people off or turning into crazy psychos towards each other every.single.bloody.time.
Not to say Korra’s post-romances had flawless examples of that, part of Korea’s entire character arc is becoming less self centred and aware other issues exist besides hers, but it was refreshing as heck to see everyone *trying.*
I love to see people understand what makes Reaching Out so amazing! Amity is understandably upset with Luz and lets her know that, but instead of being immature about it or making accusations they *talk it out*. Luz immediately apologizes, Amity listens to what Luz has to say and helps her pick flowers for her dad. Because they’re supportive of each other even through their rough patches. They have ups and downs like any relationship but the downs aren’t milked for pointless drama or fighting; they’re shown as normal and natural and resolved in a healthy and emotionally mature way.
What I like the most about the Luz x Amity relationship is that it ... isn't remarked on. In so many series, a gay romance is seen as this shocking, subversive thing. But in Owl House, no one comments that they can't be in a relationship because they are "both girls". In fact, no one comments on the relationship being specifically "gay" at all. It is simply viewed as normal in the Boiling Isles and their friends are supportive because they seem happy together. If they have a disagreement, it isn't overblown into some kind of irreconcilable ideological difference, they just talk about their feelings and try to understand each other better, like a normal couple in a healthy relationship would. Owl House is part of a rare club of fictional stories where a gay couple is simply allowed to happily exist.
Also, the crowd cheering reaction was totally my reaction when I saw that scene for the first time, haha.
The owl house is the best example I could give for a show featuring a genuinely happy and healthy relationship. I was genuinely suprised how much I liked TOH and the relationship between Amity and Luz when I watched it for the first time a couple months ago, because usually I hate romantic subplots. And this video perfectly explains what the reason might be.
Ok but Lumity wouldn’t be able to be what it is today without relationships like Catradora and especially Korrasami paving the way for them. Korrasami was the first western children’s animation to have the main character end up in a same-sex relationship. And every wlw relationship in western children’s animation since then has been able to build on the progress of the ones that came before them.
Of course I wish those relationships could have been further explored during the show, but no studio exec would have gone for it without the examples of other popular same-sex relationships.
Sorry for the mini rant, it just gets a little frustrating to see so many fans dump on the few other examples of representation we’ve gotten, when they were groundbreaking for their time.
I do agree about the problem with most cartoon romances (regardless of sexuality) being saved for the last episode or being broken up after a lot of build up. It’s even pretty common with live action shows I think. It’s like most tv show writers think the only way to keep their audience engaged with a relationship is to maximize the drama.
This! All of this! Catradora was literally the main driving point if the show. It was all about their relationship and there was a literal war going on and space Hitler.
Korrasami literally had to settle with handhilding as confirmation and sadly weren't allowed to be together bc of the network. Ruby and sapphire got married and cartoon network basically canceled funding afterwards.
All of these and more paved the way fir lumity to be what it is and i really wish more ppl would actually acknowledge that
The representation is great, but I think the point of this specific video is more about how the relationship itself is carried out - the fact that lumity is a _HEALTHY_ relationship, and that it isn't used strictly as a payoff at the end of the show, are both things that most shows and movies seem to get horribly wrong in relationships in general, including straight ones.
@@valekstormhowl4999 Exactly! The representation that got us here is flawed but also groundbreaking and vital to the fuller and more sound representation that came after. Don't be so harsh to discredit the ones that came before. They were super limited in what they could do and super important in setting the stage for what future shows could do.
And yeah, the criticism of Catradora as being bad because they only got together at the end not only ignores that the writers were _barely able to do that much,_ but also that the whole show was building up to them getting together. It was the central conflict, and that kiss _was_ the payoff. They were never written to be a side couple plotline to the main saving the world plot like Lumity is to TOH. They were written to have their rivalry and reconciliation _be_ the plot.
Edit: I should add to the first bit - yes, we should always criticize media and its representation and address and talk about its shortcomings. But we should do so in order to consume critically and learn for what to do better next time, not to just deem prior rep as Bad tm. Because prior rep also has huge strengths that were an even bigger deal when it was the first of its kind, and was vital in paving the way for more recent shows. It should still be celebrated for what it did, just with caveat where appropriate.
@@peeblekitty5780 literally this!
exactly!
Lumity also engages with the story and shapes it in a way that it’s now crucial to the development of the plot, so props to that too. Not to say that other more underdeveloped romances in media don’t, but the romance factor and the plot are REALLY hard to balance that most creators favor one for the other, but Dana Terrace sorted out the formula and did it GREAT with The Owl House.
The kiss scene was so good i smiled for an hour after that. In reaching out i got the same face as amity with tear when listening to luz, i was... Stunned
Why is it we aces are so often better at understanding healthy relationships than so many actual couples like, we ain’t even trying but we still know how to be supportive and respectful, idk maybe just watching from the sidelines helps us judge better
I love the trend of making crowd reactions to the first Lumity kiss by placing footage of it over other crowd reaction videos. I like to imagine that’s how the world felt during that moment.
I want to put an emphasis on *TIME DEVELOPING A RELATIONSHIP!!!* Not just after it's been formed, before it too. I see many show just all of a sudden go "You know how to keep audiences? Give them a romance. Let's stick these two characters together." And then just throw it onto us, even if they've had minimal interactions with each other. It infuriates me when shows just throw it onto you instead of reading the time to make it seem like it can work, unless a character is just that type of always in a relationship person.
Tbh, when I found out Owl House was trying to go down the path of these 2 in a relationship, I was afraid it was going to be like that and that they were going to use the fact of Gay Pride as a shield for bad romance writing. Why? Well, one of the shows that I had loved ended up throwing out good writing entirely for ship baiting and have used "gay couple" as a shield.
This show is RWBY BTW.
I was all for those 2 characters getting together, but they just forced the 2 characters together. At first, the 2 characters acted as friends and reacted towards each other as such, never more. Then the 2 become separated, and during this time, neither of them think about "I wonder what x character is doing. I really miss them," or anything like that. Then they reunite, and they are basically acting like a couple all of a sudden, even though they're not actually together. There was nothing before that showed either of each other liked the other. In fact, one of them seemed like they were going to be even more romantically involved with another character that went their separate ways with them because of story reasons, and then almost immediately the 2 characters in question acting COMPLETELY DIFFERENT around each other than normal when it was never shown or even started by either between that time that they started to think of each other like that.
And while gay relationships aren't the only ones I've seen to have these problems, I'm more afraid of them happening because there are a lot of people who think "it's a gay relationship, so it's good" and label anyone who criticizes it as a homophobe. Either that or it's RWBY trauma.
Also, 9:13 only the best for our Emperor- I MEAN Chancellor
Dana spent the whole animation budget on the lumity kiss scene
“I’m not crying”
Why did that get a laugh out of me 😂
yes! i usually HATE romace subplots but this was really done well!
You know if she-ra had another season we might have had something there. In the last season when the main pair is finally on the same side, if not quite the same page yet, they do try and help each other.
Adora reassures Catra that she cares for her and wants her around and to try and help her over her more toxic traits, while catra tries to rein in Adora's hero complex, trying to get her to think of her own well-being for a change. Like the seed of a mutually supportive relationship was there, if the story could have continued.
Great video! Like everyone else has said, I love Lumity because it's just a healthy relationship, which is unfortunately quite rare nowadays in media. One of the things I love most, also as an aroace, is that they're still their own characters with wants and needs after they get together; they don't just dissolve into the relationship and only exist for it after they get together, which is my biggest pet peeve with a lot of shows. Not to mention, they just like hanging out with each other! They're actually friends, they want to spend time together, whether that's on a dangerous mission or sitting under the tree talking, and they always make an effort to support the other in every way they can. It's just such a breath of fresh air and such a good relationship example for kids (and adults) nowadays. I could write so much more, but I think you and everyone else has already covered it. So again, great job!
Been here since day one bro, YOU MADE IT ! I am so fucking happy for you
As someone who also lost a parent at a very young age that scene in reaching out felt so well done, the way Luz talks and how she has been avoiding the subject all the series resonated a lot with me. At the way amity reacts is probably one of the best ways I have seen that treated too.
The fact that Lumity and Owl house as a whole managed to be this good even after Disney gutted it and left it to die makes me so angry for the lost potential
YES! This show actually gives time to SHOW their relationship, let it develop!
And I love how it’s mentioned and there are episodes dedicated to it but it’s not pushed or forced it just feels natural and how a couple would actually work in the situations their put in
Great video! The "ample time" element is one I've thought about a lot myself since watching the episode where they got together, it's so beautiful to be able to see a queer couple that doesn't just get together at the last minute because of homophobic networks, and I really hope this'll pave the way for representation in the future. It's also refreshing to see a show that doesn't give every single character a partner or love interest just for the sake of it (although I'm holding my breath until we see how Hunter's situation is developed in the future).
I was shocked to see your subscriber count, you definitely deserve more!!
I think the only couple that get together at the end of the show that worked was aang and katara
It's the weakest aspect of ATLA imo
Yeah I agree! Katara and Aang's relationship is one of the weakest parts of Avatar. Honestly, a majority of the romantic relationships on Avatar sucked.
Lol the beginning of the video. But I really liked the Lumity kiss scene everyone was like insane about that lol
3:04 that's literally my fav thing, the main ship ACTUALLY DATE AND ARE HAPPY AND HEALTHY AND ACTUALLY ACT LIKE A COUPLE
Korasami walked so Catradoda could run so Lumity could casually exist. 😊
Me, listening to the beginning of this video (that I clicked on because I was intrigued to see what points would be made) : oh yeah, right, I don't actually ever care about romance in itself, what I get hooked on is purely TENSION and slow build-up of connection... So now I remember why I went absolutely INSANE for Catradora (also why I like Korrasami... damn, my taste is ALL OF THE F/F SHIPS YOU DUNK ON, THIS IS SO FUNNY 😂😂😂) while with Lumity I'm just like "cute and great rep... but I'm not actually invested in it at all, way too cute and romance-y for my tastes" 😂
For reference, I'm aroace as well, but I experience other types of attraction (sensual/aesthetic/alterous, and I'm very gay in that regard)... So I guess it makes sense that my ships are character-dynamics-based and built on exploring some kind of connection (a LOT of my ships are not canon) while when it turns romantic I'm like "eh" or it even ruins it for me (canon on the series finale, as a result ? PERFECT FOR ME). Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Conclusion : I agree. Lumity is a wonderful example of a cute, well-written romance. Which is why it makes perfect sense that, as much as I love TOH and Luz in particular, I don't actually care about her relationship with Amity ! 😂
Answer
Because they are characters first, who happen to have chemistry so the writers use that to their advantage
(Catadora is toxic as fuck and I hope Lumity replaces it in the fandom talks)
the "cherry tree" is the tree that showed up during the grom episode
this really helped me with writing romance... thank you :)
happy to help
this video is awesome! to the point, easy to understand, and honestly really funny. your frantic way of explaining things and going on tangents keeps bringing the image of a crazed mad scientist with frazzled hair and a cork-board behind him and honestly i am here for it
I know something that will make Reaching Out even more your favorite episode. That Tree isn't just any cherry tree. I don't even know if the exist on the BI. That tree is the tree that was created when Luz and Amity defeated Grom together. It also makes sense that Amity would run away to that particular special place.
Second I love your voice is perfect
As an Aroace myself, THESE WERE EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!!!
I always see this reoccurring problems of romantic relationships in different shows and Animes, and they would always drive the viewer away from the more interesting and exciting buts, only to watch some two weird couple talk awkwardly with each other, wHEN THEY HAVENT EVEN GONE TO KNOW EACH OTHER IN THE FIRST PLACE. What’s even worse is when the couple is barely even aware of the situation they’re in, because suddenly they’re in Lala land. I never understood those, “Love at first sight” tropes. I find it more interesting if one of the people gets together with someone because of a objective, or they’ve found the same interest with each other. There’s so many different ideas that people could come together, but noo writers had to make characters fall in love because ,”He/she is good looking” or “We were meant to be together/this was fate.” THERES NO CHEMISTRY.
I’ve always enjoyed Lumity content whenever they show up because everytime they’re together, it’s like they learnt something new every time they interact. THATS WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN ROMANCE!!! CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! What’s even more interesting is that even with the chemistry between the two, THEY DON’T INTERVENE WITH THE STORY. They drive the plot further, and that’s what I want to see more in shows/anime!! They both have objects and that’s exactly what makes it so amazing.
Although I will say, I’m not sure how to feel about the Hunter x Willow ship, when clearly Hunter is not relationship ready from how traumatized he was, and all the things he saw. Maybe with more time, maybe it would’ve a been a good ship (or maybe I’m just being biased who knows) and the two could’ve had more development with each other other than the sports in a storm episode. But I would still much rather head cannon that Hunter is Aroace, because cLEARLY THEY HAD TO ROB US OF THAT ONE SCENE OF HIM TRYING TO CLIMB THE BALCONY, and yet they had the time to add the clip where Hunter would be flung off his staff and is caught by willow? 🤨 Seemed out of character for me when Hunter had so much battle experience, there was no way he didn’t see that coming. They did flapjack dirty too because he would’ve most defiantly caught Hunter.
Tl;dr: Romance in other shows suck. Lumity content great and I love it, and Hunter in my opinion is just too traumatized to even be considered relationship ready.
Sorry if that was a bit long, I was just so happy to have see someone who has the same problem when it comes to romance in different shows.
Thanks for sharing!
Man you are way to underrated definitely subscribed
Omg so underrated love this video so cool and entertaining!
I really like your video style. It's something I actually can listen to without groaning at the pacing or the things you say or, well, anything. It's just, ya know, perfect.
I never liked relatshonships in cartoons since they never got the vibe check, but lumity was my 1st favorite ship, i didnt know why but thanks for explaining it! U got a new sub
off topic but I realized you have the ace flag as the backdrop for your channel icon and I AM SO HAPPY FELLOW GARLIC BREAD LOVER
Also in Reaching Out, that’s the from tree, I was so happy when I learned that
This helped me realize why I like Korra and Asami in seasons 3 and 4, they actually cared about each other's problems.
i've never seen a more aspec heavy fandom that the rayllum fandom from the dragon prince - another best friends to best friends & lovers ship that gets together halfway through the show (and halfway thru s3) - and i'm really happy to see more ships take this route as of late
this is the first video I've seen that was short enough for my attention span, and still able to talk about all the points while involving humor. Peak quality right here.
Poggers analysis! You hit the nail right in the head for this one, it basically sums up why I like Lumity so much
I really appreciate that the writers and creators portrayed relationships, particularly relationships between young people, accurately, in the sense that just because you start dating, it doesn’t get any less awkward at first. Luz says “why is this still so scary?” When they hold hands for the first time. shows usually have the two characters stop being awkward around eachother as soon as they have THE KISS and start officially dating. That’s not the case for most relationships in reality, especially not ones between young people. TOH also does a good job at showing the normal and healthy way that a relationship develops from being awkward into being less so, going into that phase where the people are comfortable around eachother and treat eachother like friends (plus the love part.) They avoided typical relationship flaws while also giving classic corny teen romance moments, all without being too cringy. Thanks TOH 👍
*This post, by the way, was made by an aroacespec guy who has never been in a relationship, doesn’t know what a healthy one looks like, and remains with no bitches to this day.*
As a counter point to Mako and Korra's relationship, the whole point is that they weren't good for each other. One of Korra's main faults is her main character syndrome, for good reasons btw she is the Avatar. She first comes to a city that is alien to her and her first impulses are to be the hero she is meant to be and fulfill her role. She then meets Mako, an attractive athlete with a tragic circumstance and she SIMPs hard for him, she acts like she deserves him, not because they would work, but because he fits an archetypal role for her story. Then season 2 comes along, Korra finds out that relationships are more than whatever romanticized nonsense she grew up thinking it was, and things quickly fell apart. The thing to remember when comparing Korra with any other character is that she grew up in a compound with only her pet and like 20 middle aged/elderly people, her maturity should be and is incredibly non developed, and is the corner stone of the entire story.
the scene at 1:23 where amity sits on the stump and luz giddily plops down in the mud is one of my favorite lumity moments. it's such a small, cute detail that manages to tell the audience a lot about their characters and set them up perfectly as foils/complements to each other
This is an extremely good video, wow!
There are lots of great couples in shows like Kipo, Dead End Paranormal Park, Bob's Burgers, Helluva Boss, Steven Universe, and Adventure Time
7:13 it's not a cherry tree, its their tree, you know from s1 ep16 the "enchanting grom fright". Thats why they went there, their first ever figuring out that one has a crush on the Other spot!
i was looking for someone commenting this
the biggest problem with romances the owl house fixes is...
*_THAT IT ISN'T GAY ENOUGH_*
Aggresively takes notes so i can make my ocs in love*
Hey you are good at youtube and because of that you deserve a subscriber