Driving Hop Aroma *No Dry Hopping* Citra & Sabro LUPOMAX IPA
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Mike continues with experimenting with hopping strategies for driving aroma into his IPA recipe with minimal oxygen pick up.
This time, Mike played with some leftover Citra and Sabro LUPOMAX that we got from Yakima Valley Hops last year. Mike's primary goal is to make an aroma forward IPA without opening the fermentor after the yeast is pitched.
This batch had noticeably more aroma reminiscent of orange and some pineapple. The inclusion of 2 final ounces of hops into the fermentor at the time of fill right before the yeast went in seems to have been a success. This beer had none of the raw hop bite that many commercially hop aroma/flavor forward beers have. This outcome pleased Mike tremendously.
Let us know about you're thoughts on this raw hop bite and whether it matters to you. How do you minimize oxygen pick up in your IPAs?
Cheers!
#HopAroma #NoHopBite #IPA
Check out our blog:
www.brew-dudes...
Find hops at Yakima Valley Hops:
Citra - yakimavalleyho...
Sabro - yakimavalleyho...
Lupomax - yakimavalleyho...
Thx for the tips, I like to ferment in keg, no transfer and no opening it but always missing some aroma because i never dry hop and this just made my day, cant wait to see the results.
Do the magnet trick with the hops in the fermenter. Works great. No oxygen introduced
I've wondered about this one and my concern is how fresh the hops will stay since they're no longer chilled? Also there will be quite a bit of oxygen exposure while waiting for fermentation to start.
@@davidpotter6564 Not if you ferment under pressure, then you can purge the fermentor with CO2.
Similar thing to what I was thinking but maybe better
Mike can add this to his list. - John
I use the magnet trick and close transfer using a plastic bucket with a keg post attached, works a treat! I have a short vid on my channel showing this. Great vid dudes!
I didn't see the magnet trick on your page? I saw a closed transfer but where is the magnet trick? -Mike
For my last beer I sanitized the keg and dry-hop mesh container separately, then flushed the sanitizer out of the keg with CO2. I then filled the mesh container with hops, placed it in the sanitized keg, purged the keg a few times with CO2 to flush any oxygen attached to the hops out. Then did a closed transfer from fermenter through liquid out post while venting PRV - worked really well to get dry hops with pretty minimal oxygen. The dry hop canister is strung up to the keg lid with string so after a gallon or two gets consumed it's not in contact with the beer anymore too.
Nice technique!
In the only NEIPA I've done so far, I took a note from the LoDo book. Before pitching, I pre-sanitized a serving keg and drained, added cryo hops then sealed. Ran a transfer line from fermentor keg gas out to serving keg dip tube, then the normal blow-off from serving keg gas out. Natural CO2 from fermentation purges the O2 from the serving keg, then just did a normal CO2 transfer once finished. I like not having to waste CO2 just to displace sanitizer. Results were great, except I forgot to weigh down the cryo serving keg hops so they did not absorb fully.
The magnet idea also looks like it's worth playing with.
I have seen lots of folks use the out gased CO2 to push or purge other kegs. Its pretty smart. A couple things I wonder about is back pressure on the yeast and how that affects fermentation performance. The other thing that's kept me away from it is increasing my fermentation footprint to now two vessels. Some times I have multiple ferments going at once I can ferment three things and have 6 vessels in the brew space at the same time. I also can't plan that far in advance, so I just pay for extra CO2 to get the work done for me. I need to look up this magnet thing. Cheers! -Mike
I second the manet trick, but also switch out the gas connection with a liquid on my CO2 tank and purge from the dip tube with the gas release open. Put your hops in the keg do this for a minute and you'll have next to no oxygen with a closed transfer.
This is what I think the next step is realistically needed to be. Purging with CO2 from the beverage side of an empty keg. Just not sure how much CO2 it would really take to clear the keg of air. Like getting the O2 down to ppb levels. Cheers! -Mike
Thanks guys- I was thinking if pushing it through a hop randall into a serving keg a really slow pace would be a trick. My attempts at dry hopping in the serving keg were good for the first couple days but then it become vegetal/pithy and not something I really wanted another 15 liters of....but of course, it was consumed with less marketing to the target audience. I have not built a randall but the thought has crossed my mind
Thanks for the comment. Hop randall would be interesting to try out.
I use the hop canister and keg to do a no o2 transfer. I purge my kegs for a few days using fermentation CO2 then drop
The canister in and purge for another day. Disconnect the keg then come transfer time closed transfer. I usually keep the beer at 10-15oC for 2-3 days then put it in the Keezer and so far have had no issues with grassiness or astringency keeping the beer on the hops for a long time.
Nice technique!
Looks and sounds like a great IPA. I would be interested in a follow up video in a few weeks or month where you try the beer again and see how it has held up (oxidation wise). It’s definitely the number one thing I deal with on my IPA’s.
I wonder if this beer is still around. I can ask. - John
Magnet trick works for dry hopping in the fermenter without introducing oxygen. Just fill a hop bag/sock and put some rare earth magnets in and dangle over your fermenting beer until dry hop day, then just pull the magnets on the outside. Bonus -- if your magnets are heavy enough, it will pull your hops below the water line for maximum exposure.
Magnets for the win!
Just two dudes. Not two dudes and summoned demons doing what can only be done by the supernatural. Two dudes doing what can be done by anyone, but only anyone with enough motivation to dissect the contributions each ingredient delivers to the finished product without bastardizing the process. No need for a Triple Lindy to get a great beer. It's all in the ingredients. Brew on brothers, and keep letting us watch. Cheers. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words. No Triple Lindy here. Cheers! -Mike
Very interesting. Thanks for the tip. I'll try adding hops to the fermenter as adding the cooled wart next brew.
Thanks for the comment! - John
Nice one guys :) Will try the same method on my next hop forward beer :) Cheers
Thanks Kurt!
I saw a video where a guy put the hops in and held the hops to the lid with a strong magnet and a bag. Then a few days before bottling/kegging - he pulled the magnet and the hops dropped in. You should try that.
What a genius 🤣
Interesting. I'll see if Mike's up for this technique. - John
Similar to the magnet trick but better:
Load your clean keg with dry hops in a filter. Connect fermenters blow off to the kegs liquid out. Fermentation makes TONS of CO2 that will flush the hops and keg (as well as a sanitizer purge). I use a little bit of pressure as well. After ferment and cold crash Closed transfer into the keg.
This is made a huge improvement in all my dry hopped beers! Theoretical downside is the dry hops are not necessarily cold for a week... but I’ve found that purging the oxygen matters more.
Mark I've been considering doing this for a while but have been concerned that the out-gassing would carry away some aroma compounds but maybe if the hops are dry this isn't such of an issue. Do you think you get sufficient extraction of flavour from the hops when they are inside a canister?
Thanks Mark!
@@iansiviter1338 That was my concern before trying it too. Yes it makes my brew room smell incredible (which is concerning because I wan my BEER to smell incredible). But I can tell you that this method works out better to all other methods that open the fermenter to add the hops. My thinking is yes the air around the hops is being flushed out, but what we really want in the beer are the oils in the hops that stay in the hop when dry, and dissolve into the beer once they are in contact. For best contact/extraction I don't put the hops in a canister but I put a filter around the dip tube, this lets the pellets roam free. Got the idea from scottjanish.com
I add hops to a keg for dry hopping. Fill keg with sanitiser, push out with CO2, add hops to hop tornado which I blast with CO2 then add to keg. Burp keg with CO2 several times. Leave over night, burp with CO2 then close transfer from fermenter to keg. Wait 2-3 days then transfer to serving keg.
Solid plan! - John
You could gas purge in a corney keg. Just pressurize and release a few times. It wastes some CO2, but works well enough. If you pressurize to 10 psi and release, you effectively reduced O2 by 90%, do that 2 more times its like 99% free of O2. That coupled with a transfer that fills from the dip tube where only the top of the beer is touching gas (and then purging that layer of gas after transfer) you have a pretty dang good transfer void of O2.
Where do you're #'s come from regarding essentially burping the keg with CO2. I've always wondered how good it really is just working a the top of the cylinder like that but I've never seen any definitive examination on the actual pO2 in the keg after doing it that way. Advice? Cheers! -Mike
The math on this is a little more pessimistic than you are saying - it’s more like 30 purges of 15psi to reach levels similar to a sanitizer purge. Themodernbrewhouse.com has a good explanation of this (they’re big on LODO) a bunch of their cold side LODO methods have helped me make better IPAs
Hey dudes, you have to be talking about Janish?? He is the master of hop survivables for sure. Interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing. Cheers from Uxbridge.
Cheers to you! Yes Scott Janish is who John is referring to. More in an upcoming video. -Mike
This is the way
This is the way. -Mike
Hops in a weighted fine mesh bag in the keg. Purge with co2 and close transfer. Leave for 5 days at ambient temp then cold crash for 2 days. Best used with a floating dip tube keg though.
What's your CO2 purge process without a liquid fill and push approach. I've never been a big believer that burping alone gets you very far when getting rid of ambient air in a keg. Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes fill twice to 20 psi and burp to less than 5 psi. Then pressure the fv to 20 psi and transfer. The amount of O2 will be miniscule in the keg. If you want to go "belt and braces" then wet the hops use boiled water at less than 80C with a couple of grams of sodium metabisulfite. That'll kill all O2 in the keg.
@@dougdoug5949 @brew dudes
I'm with Mike on this, you'd have to do at least a dozen purge cycles to get down to 1 ppm O2 which is what the O2 content in commercial compressed CO2. Great reference here www.themodernbrewhouse.com/kegging-care-guide-purging-transferring-stabilizing-finished-beer/
I agree that highly bittered IPAs often aren't that enjoyable although I've had 1 or 2 that struck a balance with other ingredients that complemented the bitterness. These are far and few. I appreciate that you gear your brewing to ordinary home brewers that don't have tens of thousands of dollars into shiny brew equipment.
Thank Brian - we don't have shiny brew equipment and we brew what we know. - John
Add hops at 70-80oC for 30 minutes as well could further boost hop character?
Yes, it would. Actually I think I read an article with the statement, that alpha acid utilizations works fine at any temperature above 60*C I think. So you will get some bitterness but mostly a lot of aroma and taste (but still not as much taste as I would say from dry hopping heavily)
I've done this a few times. I think that I start to get more of those hop polyphenols which have that hop bite/burn I don't like. This time around the extra 2 ounces in the fermentor seemed to work fine. And two weeks later the beer still has nice hop aroma. I'm pretty happy with this. What do you think of the polyphenol levels in super dry hopped beers? Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes do not like the resin burn, polyphenols (grassy?) minor concern to me. Usually hidden by resin burn for my taste in highly hopped beers. Are polyphenols the same as “resins”? Brewing more Pale Ales lately, SNPA inspired. Often get more hop aroma/flavour over time from a less aggressively hopped PA than an over the top Hazy DIPA which seem to lose hop character much quicker. Just perception?
I think I've thought of the same thing . But my thoughts are add the canister to the keg at start of fermentation and run Co2 produced from fermentation through keg to purge keg then transferring beer in once fermentation is done in a weeks time.
Biggest killer of hops outside of temp is 02 so maybe with a try?
We'll add it to the list. - John
don't put the hops in sanitiser!!!! staintise the keg and hop strainer, put hops into the strainer and into the keg, i then hook up the fermenter to the keg to purge with co2 for the whole of fermentation, ok maybe not 100% co2 but has to be a high percentage, then closed transfer! that's what i do works well
Are you putting the CO2 through the in port? I wonder how much CO2 is purged the otherwise. Cheers! -Mike
Gas disconnect on the fermenter to liquid disconnect on the keg so co2 enters the keg at the base and i have a spunding valve on the gas out post, a pic would expalian it better, i havent had an oxidised beers this way but i do drink it quite fast so 🤷♂️
Can you point me to the recipe for this IPA please ?
I've had good luck dry hopping before fermentation is over then transfer after four days.
Any difference comparing to other hopping methods?
That's basically what I have going in here. Hops when in before fermentation started, but they were in there for the ferment. Looking for some biotransformation during ferment. I was really surprised that there wasn't any vegetal flavors with the hops in so long. Maybe its the LupoMax or maybe its just because its only 2 oz. Thoughts? Cheers! -Mike
could you consider this beer an East Coast IPA? maybe???
Yeah, an old school one. - John
Maybe I missed it, but what's the batch size on this recipe?
6.5 at end of boil, 5.5 gallons finished in the fermentor, about 5 into the keg. Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes thanks Mike!
Sanitizer hops...yuck. Why not ferment in a keg, then transfer to a purged keg with dry hop cannister?
Could be a technique for next time. - John
I’d like to see this tried with a larger dry hop dose, maybe 4-5 ounces. My last few hoppy beers I dry hopped at high Krausen to try to help “scrub” any introduced oxygen with the last few days of fermentation, but have been getting and intensely awful bitterness. Something I never experienced until switching to dry hopping earlier, so I’d be worried this method might have a similar result with more hops.
Agreed. I am working up towards it. I want to make a beer for myself that is hop interesting but doesn't have a lot of that raw hop polyphenol bite. I am pretty happy with this beer and its combination of hops.
But I'm going to start playing with traditional dry hopping to get a little more aroma. Cheers! -Mike
Did you cold crash before kegging?
Not really. I don't want to mess around with the suck back on the airlock. I also don't want to add extra tidbits of gear (like a ballon) to my set up just to do cold crash. I have seen no really need for it with a kegging set up. I transfer to keg and cold crash in there. I used to use one dedicated keg as a "bright tank" that had a slightly shorter dip tube. I would transfer to there and cold crash, then I'd push it to a new keg for carbonation and serving. Tell me more about you're cold crashing process. Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes I have long suffered with the choice between either suck back (and oxygen ingress) or hop particles clogging up poppet/disconnect during transfer. I've finally decided that I can't deal with either, so I just ordered a 6 gal Torpedo keg w/floating dip tube that I'm going to use for fermenting hoppy beers and maybe lagers. Being able to ferment, cold crash, and transfer in a closed environment will make it worth it, I hope.
Great vid, as always, dudes! Thanks and keep em coming.