I owned a Dove built in the MID 70s that had that BONE sadle in it and I loved the sound that came out of it. I now own an Epiphone J200 with Sitka Spruce top and Maple sides and Back with Eosewood fretboard and It is as close to being like the Dove in sound that Ive found today. My Epiphone J200 has the mother of pearl Fret Inlays with Bone Nut and Saddle. LOVE IT
I never paid attention to doves or had any interest in them. But Trey Hensley turned me on to them. Its his favorite guitar to play and it sounds fantastic. Clear crisp and big volume. He plays a black one. Check him out if you arent familiar with him. Hes arguably the best bluegrass flat picker on earth along with Billy strings. I had a advanced jumbo that was a great bluegrass guitar. Louder than any Martin I ever had. But treys Dove really suprised me! I cant wait to try one!
I've only found one Hummingbird that I really like, and that's the one that I currently own. It's a prototype of a special run that was made for 2020 and it sounds different than a normal Hummingbird. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's got some historic specs that I don't know about. Maybe it's just a really good prototype. Whatever it is, it's got a fuller sound than most Hummingbirds do and I love it. That said, I'm a Dove snob. I love them. We've had 4 in our family and still have 3 of them. The only one we have let go is a 1995 Dove that we sold to a family friend. And HE still has that guitar and loves it. There's something about a Dove that just sounds and feels right. The slightly longer scale makes it easier to play, especially if you have fat fingers like I do. And I like the slightly higher string tension that the longer scale affords. If you haven't tried one, definitely do! They are the unsung heroes of the Gibson guitar lineup. At a slightly higher price than most of the other models, they are worth the money, IMO.
the wider nut width & the deeper neck on the moderns, the placement of the bridge in relation to the soundhole (closer for the 60s version).. but most importantly the age and resonance of the older soundboards (which are probably better cuts of spruce too) on the 60s. 13s (pref bronze) on a 60s Gibson is absolutely unbeatable sound
Most of your favorite, iconic records were made with new guitars, or guitars that were only a few years old. It's only in the last ten years or so where this vintage worship idolization took hold.
I concur about dropping the bone saddle in the bridge for a better result for tone and volume but i do have to mention that i had the utmost pleasure of playing an old 60's dove cherry sunburst with the tune o-matic bridges, the sound & tone, playability of this instrument was so profound, it would be what players would call "the Holy Grail" of acoustic guitars. No two guitars are the same, and collectors are gleaning the world over to attain an instrument like the one I tried to describe. I know tastes vary but this was the real deal. It was owned by an old mentor of mine who was an incredible person and musician who was friends withe the late Johnny Smith. Cheers! (:
The 1963 Dove in this video was purchased new in 1963 by my father. He was 17 at the time and went in to buy a Gibson EB-0F bass and came out of the little Beaumont music store with a bass and a Dove. It's lived in its case most of the last 60 years, and even Gibson geeked out on the condition of the case as much as they did about the guitar, itself, when I took it to them at SXSW in Austin one year. I think it sounds amazing, albeit a bit darker than I think it sounded when I was a child. The 2022 Dove that I have is brighter and has a little more harmonic tone to it. It will be interesting to see how the sound of that one changes over time.
I have a modern Dove and it’s awesome. I’d love an old one, or hummingbird, with the tuneomatic just to experience it. I’m definitely a convert to the Gibson acoustic sound, and was inspired to seek it out after learning that Peter Buck played an old SJ200 on Automatic for the People.
Hi mate! In the video's description you mention that the older Dove isn't as responsive. Strings are not the issue, you're ignoring the elephant in the room. The tuneomatic bridge is killing acoustic guitar sound, it's like laying a brick on a drum membrane. If you put some effort into it, you can find drop-in bone saddle replacements of that part. No modification to the original construction, just swapping a bad piece with a better one for some time. This is going to improve volume and sensitivity tremendously.
That's a 1970 Oldsmobile 98. It's not the original color, but it does have the original 455 Olds engine in it. I've got a video up about it from a couple years ago where I talk about what it is and where it came from.
@@guitarsandgears3948 Those cars are huge! Saw a 2 door '95 in Olive Green and wanted one, not many around these days. Buddy of mine had a '69 Cutlass with the 455, gas guzzler to say the least, but that car was fast! Thanks for the reply, I'll look for it. As for those guitars, my fingers get sore at my age and thought a shorter scale would help. Thought about the Workhorse J45, but the Hummingbirds sounded better. As for you 1963 Dove, surprised it is in that good of shape & sounds great. I want to sound like Keef on Beggars Banquet! Happy Holidays!
I have no Idea why they felt the necessity to put a NYLON saddle in that bridge and that alone wouldve stopped me from buying it Everyone knows you wont get the sound from a nylon saddle that you get from a bone saddle
Lucky man to own 2 Gibson Hummingbirds, I'm looking to own at least 1 by next year, wouldn't mind getting my hands on a J200 as well. I already own a 2021 Gibson J45 60's reissue in the color black, she's a beauty and I love it. My J45 has a very deep bass line, you can feel it thump in your chest as you are playing, everyone who plays it or hears is is immediately impressed by that deep bass!
I'm still looking for the J45 that is right for me. I've had the Epiphone Inspired by Gibson and Slash J45s, and they were good guitars, but I just didn't bond with them like I have the Doves, Hummingbird, J35 and G45. I'll find one, someday. And I'll be excited to share it when I do. It sounds like you've got yourself a good one, so enjoy it!
The older guitar definitely sounds more resonant -- do they both have the same strings? Not to be gauche, but what is the approximate value of the older guitar in today's market? I hope Epiphone does an IBG version of the Dove eventually, but I guess the Epiphone Frontier may cover that. Thanks!
On a good day to the right guy the 63 Dove could sell for $8,000 (USD). My dad sold his twenty years ago but it was the first guitar I ever played. I'll never forget it. The new ones are not the same guitar. Not even close but that's not to say they are not good. I'm sad to see how cheaply made a $4,500 guitar is though. Even the $7,000 "Doves in Flight" guitar looks very cheaply made compered to actual vintage examples. Considering that both guitars are made by similar machines these days, I'd be hard pressed not to just go with acoustic guitars in the $500 to $750 range made in Indonesia. Sad but US built name brand guitars are not what they used to be.
For the $4,500 you'd pay for a new Gibson you can have a small talented builder make anything you want and still come home with enough money for a case, strings, strap and a nice amp.
They do not have the same gage strings. The 1963 Dove has 13 gage strings on it and the 2022 has factory original 12 gage strings on it. It will be interesting to see what the 2022 Dove sounds like with 13 gage strings on it after the first string change. But, with the 1963 Dove and 2020 Hummingbird both having 13 gage strings on them, I might leave this one strung up with 12 gages just for the different sound.
@@guitarsandgears3948 In my opinion string gauge has very little impact on tone. Less so when moving up or down by one size. Jumping from 9's to 13's would have a larger effect but still subtle to the average Joe. String gauge to me is more of a balancing act with the guitar to get better intonation and feel. Tone can be adjusted by string type like phosphor/bronze over 80/20 bronze or flat wound over round wound or coated strings. etc...
Not all guitars work well with 13's. Not all guitars work well with 11's. Sometimes the lack of adjustability left in a trussrod forces you to chose a lighter gauge strings to help avoid pulling the neck into a wild curve. Sometimes going with 10's allows fret buzz where there was none before and people don't know how to adjust a truss rod. These problems can be complicated but more often they're more simple than people think they are. The guitar "wants" specific things and that may not match up with what the player wants. Swapping out a nut or bridge and adjusting trussrods are the next level to setting up your guitar to your liking. Simply changing string gauge is only one experiment on the way to setting up a guitar and like a said before; that alone makes very little difference to overall tone.
I think the whole thing about tone gets better with time is bs made up by a con man to turn trash into treasure. I don't think tone changes when the top is glossed finished. But those are two fine instruments
I really wish I had a recording of what the 1963 Dove sounded like when it was new. I know what it sounded like in the early 1980s, and I feel like it sounds now almost exactly like it did in my earliest memories of it. There might be some truth to a guitar aging its sound for the first 20 years or so, but, after that, I'm not so sure. And I, after playing these two Doves side by side several times since making this video, really love the way the 2022 Dove sounds right now. So it will be interesting to see if/how it changes over the years. I've had my Taylor 810WMB since it was new. Bought it from Strait Music, in Austin, TX, in March of 1998 after it being on their wall since the summer of 1997. The 810 has definitely opened up a bit. I've added some heavier gage strings to it and adjusted the neck a little, but that's the only things done to that guitar. Since about 2014 or so, I haven't noticed a big change in the sound. It definitely changed a bit over the years before that, but nothing since then. So I firmly believe you are onto something about aging.
yeah, I'm never going to be a guitar virtuoso. But I do love guitars and music, so it's fun to collect them and see which ones I like and don't like. And it's fun to make videos and share these instruments with the world.
I owned a Dove built in the MID 70s that had that BONE sadle in it and I loved the sound that came out of it. I now own an Epiphone J200 with Sitka Spruce top and Maple sides and Back with Eosewood fretboard and It is as close to being like the Dove in sound that Ive found today. My Epiphone J200 has the mother of pearl Fret Inlays with Bone Nut and Saddle. LOVE IT
I never paid attention to doves or had any interest in them. But Trey Hensley turned me on to them. Its his favorite guitar to play and it sounds fantastic. Clear crisp and big volume. He plays a black one. Check him out if you arent familiar with him. Hes arguably the best bluegrass flat picker on earth along with Billy strings. I had a advanced jumbo that was a great bluegrass guitar. Louder than any Martin I ever had. But treys Dove really suprised me! I cant wait to try one!
I've only found one Hummingbird that I really like, and that's the one that I currently own. It's a prototype of a special run that was made for 2020 and it sounds different than a normal Hummingbird. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's got some historic specs that I don't know about. Maybe it's just a really good prototype. Whatever it is, it's got a fuller sound than most Hummingbirds do and I love it.
That said, I'm a Dove snob. I love them. We've had 4 in our family and still have 3 of them. The only one we have let go is a 1995 Dove that we sold to a family friend. And HE still has that guitar and loves it. There's something about a Dove that just sounds and feels right. The slightly longer scale makes it easier to play, especially if you have fat fingers like I do. And I like the slightly higher string tension that the longer scale affords. If you haven't tried one, definitely do! They are the unsung heroes of the Gibson guitar lineup. At a slightly higher price than most of the other models, they are worth the money, IMO.
the wider nut width & the deeper neck on the moderns, the placement of the bridge in relation to the soundhole (closer for the 60s version).. but most importantly the age and resonance of the older soundboards (which are probably better cuts of spruce too) on the 60s. 13s (pref bronze) on a 60s Gibson is absolutely unbeatable sound
Most of your favorite, iconic records were made with new guitars, or guitars that were only a few years old. It's only in the last ten years or so where this vintage worship idolization took hold.
@@thegrandpencil4374 great thanks
I concur about dropping the bone saddle in the bridge for a better result for tone and volume but i do have to mention that i had the utmost pleasure of playing an old 60's dove cherry sunburst with the tune o-matic bridges, the sound & tone, playability of this instrument was so profound, it would be what players would call "the Holy Grail" of acoustic guitars. No two guitars are the same, and collectors are gleaning the world over to attain an instrument like the one I tried to describe. I know tastes vary but this was the real deal. It was owned by an old mentor of mine who was an incredible person and musician who was friends withe the late Johnny Smith. Cheers! (:
The 1963 Dove in this video was purchased new in 1963 by my father. He was 17 at the time and went in to buy a Gibson EB-0F bass and came out of the little Beaumont music store with a bass and a Dove. It's lived in its case most of the last 60 years, and even Gibson geeked out on the condition of the case as much as they did about the guitar, itself, when I took it to them at SXSW in Austin one year. I think it sounds amazing, albeit a bit darker than I think it sounded when I was a child. The 2022 Dove that I have is brighter and has a little more harmonic tone to it. It will be interesting to see how the sound of that one changes over time.
That 63 is the holy grail of acoustics! All original! Wow! Well done sir! 🇨🇦👍🏻
I have a modern Dove and it’s awesome. I’d love an old one, or hummingbird, with the tuneomatic just to experience it. I’m definitely a convert to the Gibson acoustic sound, and was inspired to seek it out after learning that Peter Buck played an old SJ200 on Automatic for the People.
Excellent comparison ... well researched! James
Hi mate!
In the video's description you mention that the older Dove isn't as responsive. Strings are not the issue, you're ignoring the elephant in the room.
The tuneomatic bridge is killing acoustic guitar sound, it's like laying a brick on a drum membrane.
If you put some effort into it, you can find drop-in bone saddle replacements of that part. No modification to the original construction, just swapping a bad piece with a better one for some time.
This is going to improve volume and sensitivity tremendously.
Nice Olds 98, looks like an '87.
That's a 1970 Oldsmobile 98. It's not the original color, but it does have the original 455 Olds engine in it. I've got a video up about it from a couple years ago where I talk about what it is and where it came from.
@@guitarsandgears3948 Those cars are huge! Saw a 2 door '95 in Olive Green and wanted one, not many around these days. Buddy of mine had a '69 Cutlass with the 455, gas guzzler to say the least, but that car was fast! Thanks for the reply, I'll look for it. As for those guitars, my fingers get sore at my age and thought a shorter scale would help. Thought about the Workhorse J45, but the Hummingbirds sounded better. As for you 1963 Dove, surprised it is in that good of shape & sounds great. I want to sound like Keef on Beggars Banquet! Happy Holidays!
I have no Idea why they felt the necessity to put a NYLON saddle in that bridge and that alone wouldve stopped me from buying it Everyone knows you wont get the sound from a nylon saddle that you get from a bone saddle
Lucky man to own 2 Gibson Hummingbirds, I'm looking to own at least 1 by next year, wouldn't mind getting my hands on a J200 as well. I already own a 2021 Gibson J45 60's reissue in the color black, she's a beauty and I love it. My J45 has a very deep bass line, you can feel it thump in your chest as you are playing, everyone who plays it or hears is is immediately impressed by that deep bass!
I'm still looking for the J45 that is right for me. I've had the Epiphone Inspired by Gibson and Slash J45s, and they were good guitars, but I just didn't bond with them like I have the Doves, Hummingbird, J35 and G45. I'll find one, someday. And I'll be excited to share it when I do. It sounds like you've got yourself a good one, so enjoy it!
@@guitarsandgears3948 Yes I do, thanks brother, have fun making those hummingbirds sing!
The older guitar definitely sounds more resonant -- do they both have the same strings? Not to be gauche, but what is the approximate value of the older guitar in today's market? I hope Epiphone does an IBG version of the Dove eventually, but I guess the Epiphone Frontier may cover that. Thanks!
On a good day to the right guy the 63 Dove could sell for $8,000 (USD). My dad sold his twenty years ago but it was the first guitar I ever played. I'll never forget it. The new ones are not the same guitar. Not even close but that's not to say they are not good. I'm sad to see how cheaply made a $4,500 guitar is though. Even the $7,000 "Doves in Flight" guitar looks very cheaply made compered to actual vintage examples. Considering that both guitars are made by similar machines these days, I'd be hard pressed not to just go with acoustic guitars in the $500 to $750 range made in Indonesia. Sad but US built name brand guitars are not what they used to be.
For the $4,500 you'd pay for a new Gibson you can have a small talented builder make anything you want and still come home with enough money for a case, strings, strap and a nice amp.
They do not have the same gage strings. The 1963 Dove has 13 gage strings on it and the 2022 has factory original 12 gage strings on it. It will be interesting to see what the 2022 Dove sounds like with 13 gage strings on it after the first string change. But, with the 1963 Dove and 2020 Hummingbird both having 13 gage strings on them, I might leave this one strung up with 12 gages just for the different sound.
@@guitarsandgears3948 In my opinion string gauge has very little impact on tone. Less so when moving up or down by one size. Jumping from 9's to 13's would have a larger effect but still subtle to the average Joe. String gauge to me is more of a balancing act with the guitar to get better intonation and feel. Tone can be adjusted by string type like phosphor/bronze over 80/20 bronze or flat wound over round wound or coated strings. etc...
Not all guitars work well with 13's. Not all guitars work well with 11's. Sometimes the lack of adjustability left in a trussrod forces you to chose a lighter gauge strings to help avoid pulling the neck into a wild curve. Sometimes going with 10's allows fret buzz where there was none before and people don't know how to adjust a truss rod. These problems can be complicated but more often they're more simple than people think they are. The guitar "wants" specific things and that may not match up with what the player wants. Swapping out a nut or bridge and adjusting trussrods are the next level to setting up your guitar to your liking. Simply changing string gauge is only one experiment on the way to setting up a guitar and like a said before; that alone makes very little difference to overall tone.
Whats funny is the Epiphone dove sounds and playsvbetter than either at a fraction of the price.
I think the whole thing about tone gets better with time is bs made up by a con man to turn trash into treasure. I don't think tone changes when the top is glossed finished. But those are two fine instruments
I really wish I had a recording of what the 1963 Dove sounded like when it was new. I know what it sounded like in the early 1980s, and I feel like it sounds now almost exactly like it did in my earliest memories of it. There might be some truth to a guitar aging its sound for the first 20 years or so, but, after that, I'm not so sure. And I, after playing these two Doves side by side several times since making this video, really love the way the 2022 Dove sounds right now. So it will be interesting to see if/how it changes over the years.
I've had my Taylor 810WMB since it was new. Bought it from Strait Music, in Austin, TX, in March of 1998 after it being on their wall since the summer of 1997. The 810 has definitely opened up a bit. I've added some heavier gage strings to it and adjusted the neck a little, but that's the only things done to that guitar. Since about 2014 or so, I haven't noticed a big change in the sound. It definitely changed a bit over the years before that, but nothing since then. So I firmly believe you are onto something about aging.
Lovely guitars ! You more of a collector?
yeah, I'm never going to be a guitar virtuoso. But I do love guitars and music, so it's fun to collect them and see which ones I like and don't like. And it's fun to make videos and share these instruments with the world.
It would help if you had someone that could actually play a guitar..