Vanguard in League of Legends - what you need to know:
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- Опубліковано 4 сер 2024
- Riot's Anti-cheat Vanguard is coming to League of Legends in less than 2 months.
Here is everything you need to know about it.
Sources:
Pmantv cheater detected: • Cheater Detected in Va...
Kernel wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_...)
CS2 VAR is a Joke: • CS2 VAC is a Joke
List of games with kernel: levvvel.com/games-with-kernel...
Article about Vanguard: www.gamechampions.com/en/blog...
➤ Send me your replays here: vandiril88@gmail.com
➤ Follow me on Twitter: / vandiril
I’m part of the official League Partner Program with Riot Games. You can read about the program here:
partners.leagueoflegends.com/...
Chapters:
0:00 Vanguard is coming to League of Legends
0:28 What is Vanguard?
1:07 Vanguard = kernel AC - what is Kernel?
1:35 What can Kernel anti-cheats do?
2:23 List of games with Kernel anti-cheat
3:24 How does Vanguard really work? Why is it so intrusive?
4:18 Other examples of Kernel anti-cheats working 24/7
4:49 Potential risk of Kernel anti-cheats working 24/7
5:11 Vanguard on different operating systems (Windows, MAC, Linux)
5:51 Does League of Legends really need such intrusive anti-cheat?
6:42 Issues with Vanguard (installing, performance problems)
7:35 Vanguard vs Content Creators
8:24 Vanguard and data privacy
8:55 Is it a Chinese spyware?
9:14 Leave a comment! Thanks for watching x) - Ігри
I cant wait until vanguard launches and bricks the league client somehow
"Just" the League client
Same :D
@@Vandirildamn you are fast
Nah~ It'll introduce a new Viego bug.
Vanguard banning the client because its an external program
This is the final push I needed to quit League for good. Goodbye, folks.
You won't be alone with choosing to leave
please stick with your promise and don't support riot
Same
@@ieatthighsriot aka tencent aka the ccp
Same
"Listen guys, we got hacked because our security sucks. And with that situation we now have to give each and every one of you who wants to play League, your very own Kernel level malware. Trust us, because we know security."
"I don't understand cybersecurity because I am not a programmer in cybersecurity"
It's not because their security sucks. It's because hackers know what they are doing, and can find what you can't. No security is perfect. It's impossible to be 100% secure. Don't be stupid.
Honestly, pretty funny and very true. Like come on riot hire some online security experts or something. I will say that I don’t think think Vanguard is malware but also I’m one person and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What you said was funny though keep it up!
@@kelintheranger It's guaranteed that League will still have scripters/hackers. The cheats might cost more, but there will still be people who are willing to part with that much.
you just need hardware level hacks, its actually not that expensive and literally undetectable@@Steamgirled
Also it comes from chinese company. We all know how trustworthy they are. :)
The thing is cheaters aren't even a damn problem. The client causes more problems then cheaters do
yeah by a huge margin. the amount of bugs the client has is absurd.
2024 resolution by riot: “Fix buggy client”
But come on do we really think they’re gonna do that? They might, but more likely they spend their time on another $200 skin to rake in that sweet, sweet money from us lowly peasant who just want a cool skin :(
We've just got 20 new bugged items and a new champ with 50+ bugs they won't ever fix will come to live servers next week. They just add new content too fast for them to keep it working. Maybe RITO is just so bumb they think it's not bugs but cheaters who bricks everything they do.
Even if thay are (like for ex. in high elo) it wont solve the problem. It will stop cheaters for like 1 or 2 months and then thay will find workarounds and will continue cheating. All people talking about "no cheaters" in valorant are on huge copium.
Stop supporting Riot and Tencent they are evil and stealing from you
"We were breached so give us full access to your machine at all times." Interesting response.
well said
Wait, people are unironically playing League of Legends in 2024? I quit in S2 and was like "this ain't gonna last long" and now I see this suggested as a video
@@PeachwiseSyndrome are u unironically bragging about being as far from reality as one could possibly be?
"We can't even be allowed to handle the security of OUR systems. Now let us take full control of yours too!"
I am bragging that I have left a s**thole of a game when it was time to do so.@@themagetone4184
So excited to install a kernel level anti-cheat that is always on that is being released by a company that had all of their source code hacked. No way that could go wrong.
And now china Gets acces to your data too! 😂
Small indie company, you mean
@@ekkospotlight4356your data defenetely has any value for anybody btw
They got hacked once. In 15 years of running this game. Once. Stop being a drama queen, you already probably gave it to other much less secure game companies
You already allowed League "Kernel Level" access to your system when you installed it...
If anti-cheat has to run on your pc 24/7, the game is not worth it. Your privacy should not be monitored. Also...i am sure they sell data to other companys by doing that.
That's because game has cancer spaghetti code and devs aren't willing to fix it, so they'd rather sit in a bunker and threaten everybody with their atomic bomb "vanguard"
I roll my eyes at you 🙄. I will bet you my life savings that they don’t sell your data. Keep this comment in your back pocket if I’m ever wrong and it comes out that they do, in fact, sell your data. However, I’m sleeping soundly knowing my money is probably well bet.
Companies like the CCP. I don't think you need to be very conspiracy minded to see this connection.
Show me a game that doesnt have spaghetti code. @@merlin7873
The data will be fed to the chinese overlords for free even
Always say no to kernel level anti-cheat. That's far too much access for a company to have on a customer''s personal computer.
I mean... they just can monitor everything a million people do 24/7 so they maybe spot the 1 of them cheating during a 15 minute game can't see anything bad on that. Also League is such a skill based game you won't get from silver anyway even with all the hacks of the world if you suck so the proper AC is pure neccessity... obviously.
@@petrjara7559 you wont mean anything when the kernel level anti cheat system will break either your processor, your old window after an update, or ur ssd/hdd and u will lose all ur private information and documents and photo
so you wont play any online game anymore ? cool story
@@wnsjimbo2863 No, they are just tired of companies finding new ways to compromise our privacy even more while pretending that they are doing it "for our own good". A very valid point in my opinion.
@petrjara7559 Just because you haven't climbed out of silver doesn't mean there aren't any cheaters above it.
How can we trust Riot to not completely brick all of our machines when they can't even fix bugs they've had for 12 years?
Because if that happened imagine how much money they will loss in 1 day internationally
@@horizonblack8351about zero
You cant, I used to play valorant, sometimes I had to stop vanguard to play league even if I had nothing else running but I could have solid works (3d design software) running if I was working on something and I wanted to play one or 2 league games
I think the most important point here is: It has been working for a long time in Valorant and has proven over time that it is not a problem.
Gun Goddess Miss Fortune hasn't been able to taunt for a long long time
Skinspotlights: makes fun of the jhin chroma
Riot: -100,000,000 social credit
No disrespect to xi jhin ping
Sadly true
Playing Jhin with 11 ms
So fvking... based
The worst part isn't that a kernel level anti-cheat exists, it's the fact that the vast majority will put up with it until it becomes mainstream.
But I am not the vast majority, so bye bye League of Legends.
Honestly, very based comment. The fact that it’s so common is pretty concerning. With that said, people suck. Chalk it up to bad actors ruining it for the rest of us. Sad I won’t see you on the rift anymore. Still awesome opinion though I agree.
@@kelintheranger Im fine with Kernel level anticheat as long as it works and only runs as long as the game is running. Vanguard is just too much.
@@Svenson_IV yeah those are already on the fence. you need companies to be accountable to really trust normal kernel anticheats, but vanguard simply crosses the line.
This is what I love about gaming on Linux -- if something cannot be run on linux it often means you're better off not having it running on your computer anyway. Not too thrilled about installing a trojan just to play a game.
S14: "In order to punish cheaters, we are punishing the entire community along with it"
S13: "In order to punish smurfs, we are ruining the mmr system for the entire game"
classic riot
@@opportunity3278 Don't worry! More and more players will quít League
Pro gamer move
Cheaters aren't going to be punished, only legit players, we're moving to MacOS whenever Vanguard comes out
@@yorik1006 holy copege, there is gonna be cheat devs for macos for sure XDD
Cheaters in league just dont bother me enough to need this. Played since season 3 and a cheater is less common or problematic then a troll or smurf
I agree I have not had problems with cheaters in league and my friend who has played since launch said he can count the amount of cheaters hes seen on one hand
yeah, i'd rather have overpowered enemies than stupid ass allies
Tbh usually all a cheater means is a lost laning phase because the most common kind of cheating is scripting and that becomes significantly less useful once macro becomes more important later into a game. Most cheaters are really bad players and cheating doesn't change that, so they fall off once laning ends and cheats alone can't carry them.
I see cheaters. Not a lot but enough of them. They just dodge and hit spells. In a game like league this isnt nearly scary enough to warrant a kernel level anticheat. If the ADC cheats, our top laner or assasin can kill it with no issue. I'd rather play against 5 stack cheaters than use vanguard. Chinese spyware ahh software. THE TROLLS ON THE OTHER HAND. Work on a detection for trollers they are the most common and unbearable part of league. I'd rather have 5 cheaters call me the n word and the f slur than a teammate that afks and ints.
@@jpaul3786 Yep. Been playing since just after the beta and i've played against 2 obvious scripters.
Feels like Riot throwing their casual playerbase under the bus for "muh high elo" once again. (even though 99% of players are casual/low elo)
" Guys trust us this 24/7 anti cheat is for the good of the game, we swear "
Siege having a Kernel level anti-cheat is hilarious when you consider the sheer volume of cheaters that game has
It's not about Vanguard being kernel level. It's about it being permanently on, booting BEFORE your system, and it's already known to block regular programs that are not even related to gaming, crash and even blue screen PCs if it conflicts with programs or drivers. And let's not get started on how trustworthy Tencent is, that's a whole different story.
THIS. CCP spyware + random bluescreens in other software, what a good combination...
My issue with Tencent being Chinese isn’t some nationalist thing, it’s that if they are found to be scraping data, how are they gonna be really held liable if the company is based in another country?
Vanfuard is the crutch. League can be anticheat free by more independent server logic. But they cant do it. Smal indie company
"it's not about Vanguard being kernel level, it's about it being kernel level"
@@tommy5965 You missed the point entirely. Many anti-cheats are kernel based and run on game initialization. I dont need Vanguard running while I'm casually using my PC. Fk outta here.
Hopefully the content creators behind skinspotlights and custom skins can be allowed to continue. They do similar things on Valorants side of things so hopefully we get similar treatment.
I thought skin spotlights uses pbe
Custom skins are probably dead, but Riot Pupulasers already stated the team is asking around for something they can use to help SkinSpotlights continue his work.
To be honest i hope skin spotlight will survive but i also hope custom skins will be banned, because its only a matter of time before someone creates a custom skins that clearly shows where a skillshot is going or show it earlier than it should, so to prevent the drama from happening Just ban it now.
@@matipedi4507 Classic ban something cause I don’t know how it works
@@matipedi4507 pov : you don't know how custom skin works and what they do
Vanguard is why I stopped playing Valorant. It would stop my game development tools from working for an indie game I was making. Took me like 2 days to finally realize an anticheat software I DIDN'T KNOW WAS ON made the executive decision to subtly break my game dev tools
You literally had to give the permission to install Vanguard with Val. There is now way you didn't know.
Idk man I don't wanna sound like a politician but I think this is a time for all of us to come together and raise our voice against this. It's gonna ruin everyone's experience quite a bit and i don't wanna sit back and say it is what it is. When the Vanguard drops let's all just take a break from league for a week and see if Riot changes their mind about this.
You are so delusional for thinking you have any influence on the playerbase of League
@@Kotsknots said that to myself already, had to get this off my chest either way
chinese bot @@Kotsknots
Welp for example I will delete league, valorant and anny another riot game from my main pc the moment I come back home, I just hope I have two weeks of time, essentialy riot thinks only their games exist, their virus running full time on my pc is going to affect my already strugling performance just so a single game I place from time to time can run, yea needles to say riot is diging its grave, as my friends already also decided on the same thing, meaning riot just now lost 10-30 players As essentialy every person in the camp sonetimes plays league, and curently essentialy everyone decided the game ends up in trash... Yea gl for those few that are left I gues
@@mattor300 riot screwed me a few times already and this was the last straw. Goodbye riot, hello single player games.
A chinese owned company saying they will not steal private data is not very assuring
any company saying they wont steal data is not assuring lmao, everyone here acting like it hasnt been a problem with us based companies for years.
Right? It's the CCP saying 'Trust me bro, we will totally not steal all you info or use your PC in any malicious way"
hmmm I guess I prefer china than US
so you'd be ok if it was any other company?
For me it's less about that (even though its a concern plenty of other stuff already does that) and the fact that it is a very real risk that riot is hacked and now they have access to all of our devices
It's literal spyware with the potential to inject malware
"I hit 4 consecutive skill shot with xerath"
Vanguard: im not gonna sugarcoat it
Xerath drops to .00000004% play rate overnight
Vanguard auto-bans you whenever you pick Xerath in champ select
@@dendo20p rude.
As a Xerath main, I look forward to my impending ban
@@dendo20p honestly based.
It's also good to mention that any kernel level software running on your PC could(most likely it does) have security bugs in them and it could be exploited (and has been in past) to take over the system.
Yup :(. Gonna have to trust RIOT on this one. I, for one, don’t have a lot of trust in them. That being said I like League so that outweighs my lack of trust. Everyone is different though so it’s up to them personally to make the decision to trust and keep playing, or, rightfully, be untrusting of RIOT and their Vanguard software and quit playing their games.
This is bullshit and scripter propaganda. Any user mode software can be exploited and it can be just as damaging as kernel level exploit. Also Valorant has been out for years now and I don't remember this "most likely" security bugs lmao.
@@outsomnia Any software can be exploited - sadly yes. Just as damaging as kernel level exploit - no way, stop lying. If you run application with limited permissions and somebody exploits it to run arbitrary code, the code is going to inherit the app permissions.
Apple has been around for years and look what came up recently: CVE-2023-32434. Kernel level arbitrary code execution, which required 0 user interaction.
Riot telling us to move on from LoL
As a Linux user, this is really, really sad.
I have played over 10 thousand games over the last 10+ years and I have never, not even once, had a game-ruining experience related to cheating.
I'm sure there's a lot of people who have had issues with cheaters, but I'm also pretty sure that many people share my experience (or, at least, haven't come across that many cheaters
I don't really understand the need of a kernel level anti-cheat software, but oh well. Riot knows best I guess.
Goodbye League.
its probably because cheating usually is a problem at higher level
uh if you never had a game-ruining experience related to cheating you are extremely lucky, also almost every modern anti cheat runs in kernel nowdays, because the cheats itself run in kernel.
I'm a lame gold player and faced a cheater this year. A kind of obvious one. My friend was playing in his silver acc and he also faced another cheater.
His main acc is master GM and has been facing cheaters a lot, specially arund march april of the last year.
We desperately needs anti cheats engine.
I'm in the same boat. The linux playerbase is being thrown out the window(s).
@@dylantaaffe4195 thats not the point. The point is that a significant amount of players just CANT play anymore. v sad.
There's a huge problem with kernel level software : you cannot monitor what it does. Usually if you suspect there's a malware on your PC, you check the processes to find a suspicious one, or check open ports to see if one of them shouldn't be open. The kernel defines what processes even are, so it can run outside of any process, and whenever a process requests an Internet connection using a port, the kernel decides whether or not to allow it based on whether or not the port is open, and depending on your security configuration you might have connection logs too (handled by the kernel). So essentially, malware running in kernel level has the same privileges as the kernel, it may not be detected because it runs outside of any process, can decide to connect to the Internet using a port that's not even open, and decide not to write any logs about it, making it a 100% stealthy malware.
Not exactly 100% cause you can definitely extract data from what it sends, the pc itself won't log it but the physical data is still going out so if there's any middle hardware that can check that you can get your logs
It's still super stealthy and annoying tho
True. All this does if force cheat maker to use kernel level cheating software as well. This only hurts the vast majority of people getting caught in the crossfire.
@@ryu_lidu Riot encrypts the data, so no, you cannot see what they're extracting from your pc. Only Riot, Tencent and the CCP will know. Oh, and also every company that has dealings with China.
@@Numb_
everyone: *bots in game* omg my adc is a bot, wtf rito pls fix
Rito: here's a fix but it runs on kernel
everyone: no why fix it botters are just gonna run on kernel now wtf rito
like bro wtf you want people to do when you put them in a lose lose situation, it is so idiotic.
I'm not as worried about vanguard itself, but moreso the potential "holes" in the coding that could be exploited by people creating malware to gain kernel access. Yeah it's not easy to do, but if it does happen that'd be more worrying imo
My favorite thing to do to a company that consistently proves itself unable to test software? Give it kernel access.
i like how people asked them if they can make it open source and they said “nah trust us bro “
making an anti-cheat open source. you have to be stupid to think this is a good thing....
making something like this open source would only further increase the chances of someone exploiting vanguard. I love custom skins as much as the next guy but if they made it open source cheaters would be everywhere and data leaks, hijackings, and random bans could all be exploited.
Open source Vanguard is the equivalent to no Vanguard lmfao.
@@terrytuna9392stop spreading misinformation. Bitwarden is one of the most secure password managers and fully opensource. Security by obfuscation was never true and won't be ever.
Making an anticheat software open source will kill the anticheat software. It will be bypassed instantly. The reason why Battleye and EAC bypasses exist is because anyone can pay Battleye and EAC a couple thousand dollars for a copy of the source code to "use in their own game." Riot having a proprietary, and more importantly, *private* anticheat is the only way to prevent bypasses.
Vanguard running 24/7 is what really grinds the gears for most security concerns. Anti-cheat these days is mandatory, so is running it at Kernel-level because obviously why would hack creators not do that if it gives them the advantage.
But the combination of a 24/7 rootkit owned by a Chinese company **THESE DAYS** is just way too heavy.
This is just another episode of the cat and mouse game. After awhile we will start getting 24/7 on boot hacks to go up against the 24/7 on boot anti cheats.
Kernel level anything just to play a game shouldn't be a thing, ever.
U do realize that for your data to be stolen it would take only a couple of minutes for it to run. It running 24/7 doesn't mean anything. It's not like there would be a human parsing through data so it would be necessary for it to run 24/7. If it turned out Riot ever stole your personal data for whatever reason their company would be sued to oblivion and they would go bankrupt. Do u really believe that is the case?
Are American companies somehow more trustworthy?
@@WasabiCannonNot after a while, if I'm not mistaken there were bans in Valorant during beta for cheating.
Cheaters are already using hardware and kernel level cheats.
My primary concern is simply the fact the anti-cheat software is running 24/7; even while the game is not open. Give the player base ONE legitimate reason that is necessary. It's not necessary; it's lazy/cheap moderating.
> This "Always On" feature is a necessary layer for the evolving cheaters we as a community face.
W H Y ?
Is it not enough that I grant Tencent (parent company of RIOT) Kernel-level access to my desktop while I play the game?
for certain cheats, having the anti cheat on before the cheater can start their cheat software is essential, thats why 24/7 is required, if they were really out to spy your pc, they wouldnt let u close vanguard this easily.
and its funny because cheaters STILL exist on valorant, but fanboys will still defend riot games, thinking this is a step foward.
And btw, companies lie, specially when it comes about personal information
It does turn off if you turned it off. Of course, you're gonna have to restart the PC if you wanna open LoL/Valo.
Whether you want your privacy or your convenience... your choice. Do remember that Windows themselves is always extracting data, not to mention other games.
The key thing is that some cheats can be loaded before the operating system loads, which can then trick the operating system into thinking everything is normal, making them impossible to detect. These are kernel level cheats. Vanguard is a kernel level anti cheat, which loads at the same time/before the cheats are, making it possible to notice them. It is worth mentioning that if a security flaw in vanguard exists, then it would be possible for a bad actor to gain access to the PC at the kernel level, which would provide the potential for total control. Vanguard is a double edged sword that when handled well would outperform traditional anti-cheat but poorly could be more dangerous then useful.
All the sheep will actually answer your question.... The REAL reason is for Tencent to farm your data. Tencent is only as big as it is due to the Chinese government helping them with their funds for exchange for data. Why else would they make large investments in the western gaming market instead of their own? I mean Tencent has already found themselves in some controversy regarding data.. Goodbye riot your greed has been growing nonstop
Well... It's been a fun 10 years, but this is a deal breaker.
FYI it’s important to say “kernel level” and not just “kernel”. Kernel is the program at the core of your operating system that schedules processes, manages memory, etc. Kernel level is a program that runs with the same permissions as the kernel such as a driver.
ty fir clearing up, this is why its called "linux kernel" i guess.
ring 0 is shorter too.
not all drivers run on kernel level , in windows most dont
they are truly genius, the game addiction is a very bad plague nowadays. Thanks to vanguard, many of us would be able to stop this addiction. Thank you rito
It can indeed happen. Like i use winter rift and other custom skins, since its so fun. But if they take that also away, im more out
We both know it wont stop league players from playing.
Are u saying all addicted players are cheating?
@@rosegold-beats nah bro ppl just don’t want that malware on their system to a vulnerable company ran by tencent, it’s really just that simple you would be surprised looking at the player count going into s14
Im most centantly stop playing league. Vanguard dont allow me to play Valorant. I it freezes my cursor and I have to reboot until it stops doing it lol
Can't wait for them to go "We changed back away from the Mythic system and our playerbase dropped, clearly this was to blame"
Riot always follows a "green arrow" mantra.
A guy draws green arrows all over his town, someone asks "Why are you drawing green arrows?", and the guy replies "To keep the pink elephants out, and it works!". Their town is in Norway.
oh no don't worry we are now having the mythic chroma ($200) releasing with *new* skins.
Riot really went and pulled out the "Trust me bro" card while promising not to do anything shady with this system...
They can already extract 100% of your data with their user mode software if they wanted to, they don't need ring0 for that. the moment you run any executable file on your pc, it can literally take anything it wants from PC without your permission so if you're that paranoid you might as well never run any program and game on your PC because it might steal your precious wallpapers.
@@outsomnia No? You can lock everything behind admin privileges which games usually don't need to run. Or make it encrypted, run those apps/games in isolated environment so they can't access anything outside their installation folder
@@petrjara7559 so you're telling me that you're such a schizo that you run trusted video games on a separate environment? 99.999% of the people don't do that and the ones who do are pdf files or schizos. so which one are you.
Almost everyone I know that I told about this had no idea what I'm talking about.They had no idea what Vanguard is, what it means, what's the *potential* risks, that it's being forced on League, nothing.
Riot/Tencent are relying on the fact that most people are not tech savy at all, and many people don't really care anyways (Look at the amount of people that are willing to download and use softwares like TikTok even on sensitive devices), and once this goes live you'll receive a small popup that requires you to install Vanguard to continue playing, with Terms of Services nobody is going to read.
The fact that not only is the game owned 100% by Tencent, a Company pretty much controlled by the Chinese goverment, but that Riot themselves got hacked last year, makes this entire ordeal even more crazy. What if they get breached again (Or even have already a backdoor in their servers) but now they have access to millions of computers from League Players. This is a literal Rootkit.
Insanity.
Key difference between Vanguard and other kernel-level anti-cheats: Vanguard runs from boot-time, other kernel-level anti-cheats like EAC and BattlEye only run when the game opens. For reference, the only 24/7 kernel-level software is: your USB driver, your audio driver, and your graphics driver (software you need to be able to interact with your system).
Regardless, I fully believe Vanguard will stop way more legit players from playing than cheaters, which is such a shame.
no it wont,most people don't really care how anti-cheat works.Valorant had it from get go and they still have millions of players.
@@Scarlet_moon.Valorant was introduced alongside Vanguard. This is implementing it onto THE LARGEST PLAYERBASE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.
I mean Linux players alone probably trumps the number of cheaters this thing is going to stop, plus people on older hardware or Windows prior to 10, people who cannot use Secure Boot for any reason such as dual booting another operating system, people who are using Microsoft Hyper-V, people using disability software (myself included) I mean the list goes on and on.
@@pwbandwidth league players that play on Linux are not even 0.1% you overestimate how much this could impact player base.
Riot probably did the math based on their player base as they already have all that based on downloads,i assume they are more than willing to cut small percentage of users to implement this,you are all acting like they didn't do their calculations.
And for people that are using older windows,i got one message, its 2024 windows 7 will soon turn 15.
Only valid concern you have is for people using disability software,but for that you will need to ask Riot.
@@Scarlet_moon.I'm afraid the argument of "millions of people don't care how something works" doesn't sound as good as you probably imagine it to
@@GnegonGalek your phone and browser already tracks every single thing you do,companies know all they need about you,not really sure why you think that vanguard is a problem when you have probably installed similar programs on your pc without ever even realizing it,at least they had decency to warn you few months upfront.
Only thing i am shocked about is that it took them so long to add it to league,but i guess they wanted to make sure it wont cause problems so they used Valorant as testing ground.
I doubt they will lose more than 2% of player base with this move as most people wont care,hence my comment.
Any reasonable person will see this is a ticking time bomb.
Has Riot been hacked before? Yes.
Has a kernel level anti-cheat do shady stuff in the background happend before? Yes.
Is riot connected to a shady entity? Yes.
Not even just a kernel level anti cheat, it's a 24/7 kernel level anti cheat lol
@@ryu_lidu This is the sole reason why i wont be getting it when it comes out.
If it would only run when i play the game fuck it. But 24 7 what kind of ccp bullshit is this????
This is just pure lazyness and incompetence on riots part and they came out with the " trust me bro" excuse during the dev video.....
Oh well all our stuff is with the gov anyways
Did I uninstal league already? Yes 😇
Even funnier is that, while this affects the custom skin community, Linux community and carries all the risks you mentioned, the most dedicated cheaters, who climbed to high elo cheating - will keep cheating. There are undetected Valorant cheats out there, there will be undetected League scripts.
It's a pain how I can't use custom skins on League or play the game on my old laptop running Ubuntu anymore for this.
i like that if every league player decided to not pay or play league for a month in protest, suddenly vanguard wouldn't be absolutely necessary anymore lmao
Cheating is not really a problem for league and I really doubt this will stop leveling bots. Solve griefing, soft inting and wintrading. I feel like this does nothing for us, only takes away.
One small addition: Tencent isn't just a chinese company, it is THE chinese company. It is known to have close ties with the government and gets special benefits from them by sending them userdata. I don't think it is that big of a deal regarding vanguard but it might be interesting for some.
Kernel level software running 24/7 on millions of pcs? This should be treated as national threats in western governments
Unless you have government info on your pc, which you shouldn't, the chinese government won't want shit from your data, no reason to worry
@@DIRTkat_ofc haha you are so naive
@@MrTriple3D no i'm real
I am always confused why Tencent and the chinese government would be the problem regarding data when US FISA law rules all US companies to hand over data to the NSA if they so wish; Riot Games Inc. is a US company regardless of which investor backs them
So riot is telling people to play on mac if they don’t want to get vanguard. Truly disgusting.
Apple: stonks
Things have gone a long way since I had to download a ported version of league by Boompje to play on a Mac. And it broke every patch intentionally by riot.
Mac collects even more data than windows does, now I can not assure you that, but that's what people in hack community says. To be fair I do not think data collection should be one of your problems when you install Vanguard.
I've thought of buying a Mac since the announcement, not even joking
Wait do I not need it if I have a M1 Mac?
Syncronous Audio Router (the best and most low latency way to redirect DAW audio streams into another application) needs Secure Boot Off, which is needed for vanguard to run. So you wont be able to have an affordable way to post-process audio while gaming
it annoys me people compare those kernal levels with vanguard as those can run in a virtual machine and vanguard refuses to run in a virtual machine and thats all you need to know about its trustworthyness.
Very questionable choice. Announcing that you're putting in a kernel level anti-cheat in response to your own data breach, is like a doctor telling you he has better malpractice insurance after being sued for it multiple times. It does not inspire a lot of confidence.
I love this comment
So glad I quit. What a dumpster fire this game has become.
Yeah this is what people don't get, league of legend just got hacked not even a year ago!
Exactly. Complete nonsense.
That's exactly what I was thinking and I'm so frustrated that no one is mentioning it. Riot basically said "We got hacked last year so now we add Kernel level anti cheat so that if hackers find a vulnerability again they have kernel access to our users pcs".
They only mentioned privacy issues in their video. What I am more worried about are possible security issues. Hacking into Vanguard might give somebody full control over your computer, which would not be ideal.
This, remember that Vanguard starts as soon as you boot up your system. Sure there are plenty of anti-cheats that are kernel level as well, but pretty much all of them start when you play the game. When Dark Souls 1-3 had a massive exploit where simply being online could give hackers control of your computer and Fromsoft didn't disable the multiplayer yet (it has been fixed and re-enabled), guess what I did? I simply didn't play Dark Souls 1-3 lol.
Tough luck if something like this happens to Vanguard. Riot isn't impenetrable, and Vanguard already doesn't have the best reputation so I don't have a lot of faith and trust in it.
Additionally Vanguard is on *a lot* of machines (and is going to be on more), so that gives more incentive for people to try to find a vulnerability in it, possible vulnerability could be catastrophic, I hope that their proprietary tech is really well funded and tested by many independent security experts..
Hacking into league or any other program would let someone steal all your personal information, passwords, install malware etc. so I don't really see how the threat level escalates here for the average league user that doesn't have a valuable network of confidential information or hardware to compromise.
Yeah they have a better chance of bricking your device but they can already do that through multiple drivers or other anti cheat drivers on your PC and it doesn't seem to actually happen very often.
then you'd be worrying about this for years already because EasyAntiCheat and BattleEye are both kernel level anticheats. and they have been for years. and most online games use them.
It already is possible with the genshin anti cheat with the Devs not bothered to fix it.
Played since season 4 and spent hundreds on skins… i just deleted lol. This type of intrusion cannot be accepted
Damn, Riot is killing their own game.
Looks like this is the push to move on from League after 14 years.
like he said, many games have this level anti-cheat. You probably have it installed already.
@kitnal4143 Almost all games worth its name have kernel level anti-cheat, yes. But I don't know a single other game that runs 24/7 on your computer. This is basically a root-kit. Not having this running on a computer where I do my professional work.
@@kitnal4143 dose that make it better are we just gonna let all game company haw a keylogger running with network aces 24/7?? I DON'T THINK SO !!!
I think it is for the best, you can tell if sombody is using aimbot in game but seeing cheats or bots in lol is much harder to notice. So it is way better than relaying on reporting players.
Bro anti-cheat , why don't they fix the damn league client that breaks down every 2 seconds 🤦
That's another level
Because that would be something great that people unanimously want since forever, which is something Riot appears to despise.
@@dzigayu4944Imagine remaking the clients all those years ago just to give us an Electron piece of garbage as a client.
No, we don't do that here 😂. Have some new designs for the champion mastery.
I tried to think of a funny joke, where user data can give you money and a working client not... but im tiered and think i quit LOL
The main problem with the anti-cheat running 24-7 is that if say a hacker discovers a security flaw in it, that could immediately impact MILLIONS of people and allow for unfathomable damage. It is an INSANE security risk, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if certain government agencies would ban their agents/employees from downloading league on even their personal devices, and I personally will not be playing it anymore unless I get a PC I specifically dedicate to the game, which is not happening. Truly a sad day for the league community.
cant u just get another ssd and boot from it when u want to play league ?
This happened already with Genshin’s kernel level anticheat. It was used as a back door to install ransomware. The difference is that Genshin’s anticheat doesn’t run 24/7, only when the game is running. This means that Vanguard will be even more dangerous.
@@titelitury9396you would need another computer to be compeletly safe, or for your data you would have to disconnect personal drives when vanguard is running.
this is the main issue, is youtube spying on me? sure, but I don't use it for irl things, same for other companies. I manage to keep irl and online lifes separate but when you get 24/7 anti-cheat the whole thing goes out the window. and buying a separate computer just to avoid anti cheat is way too annoying and unnecessary for me and many others.
@@Daktyl198 Not saying that it's not a risk, but Riot has a bug bounty out for Vanguard since release. If you manage to crack it, you can send them the flaw and get paid.
So far no one has claimed that money. Honestly, they might aswell increase the bounty to actually entice people to not abuse a flaw but cash in the easier and safer way. Might help people feel more secure.
Nothing is unbreakable, but it does give a sense of security. Valorant and thus Vanguard has been out a few months longer than Genshin too.
Genshin also using an own anti-cheat is probably what caused the issue. Any more established anti-cheat software hasn't had any issues with back doors.
But if I'm not wrong they didn't hacked a PC with Genshon Impact (and its AC), but rather they made the victim to download the AC (since it's a rootkit) and used it to infect the PC.
This of course demonstrates the dangerousness of the AC, but it is a little bit different. (I'm not defending Vanguard, I in fact too think that it's too dangerous).
Can you make a video about the different ways people cheat in League of Legends and ways that would be prevented by the new anticheat?
I would like to see this too. Would be really insightful at least to see what’s possible and why Vanguard might or might NOT be necessary.
Is going to be automatic we get vanguard if we have LOL or will it be a separate download? Would like to know before hand so I can decide for my self.
Riot doesn't collect non-relevant data, but Tencent does.
Exactly my point give china a open door to every pc and they will take it
The CCP is going to collect info on dissidents and the governements will allow it. It's a black day for gaming
It is a pitty that politicians are dinosaurs that consider banning tiktok but not a kernel level software designed to run 24/7 on millions of computers
Nah they said "Trust me bro" so 100000% no chance they doing it even though Tencent works hand-in-hand with the Chinese government and is obligated by their laws to provide any and every information the CCP requests.
Yea but riot is owned by tencent still it's headquarters are in the US so I think if they do some shady stuff or else the US would already be saying hello at their front door.
Vanguard, the perfect excuse to stop addiction
Best comment.
guess what, to leave a comment on yt you must make a Google account. Why do you think that ads pop up about whatever you were talking about? (It's because Google uses your information already, including your microphone, even when you don't give access.) Man I wish that in order to use the internet you need to take a class or something, because yall dumb as rocks
So true. Even thou I haven't played in a few month now. I come back from time to time. But now... Nah, I'm good playing modded Minecraft 😂
My thoughts exctly.
FUCK LEAGUE 🗣️💯
By the sound of it I think it wasn't a bug its a feature: You need to have tmp 2.0 and secureboot enabled to give the anti-cheat absolute control over security.
What also should be mentioned.
When Valorant released all negative comments/threads towards Vanguard got straight up deleted on the subreddit and official forums.
The exact same thing is currently happening on the league sub, Post that go slightly negative towards or not even negative just posting their concerns about it get deleted now aswell.
Riot hasn't been trustworthy in the past and I don't trust them that their software won't accidentally brick my pc and "hiding" all those posts doesn't help me trusting either...
It definitly helps the war against cheaters if it boots before your OS but imo this isnt the right way at all.
Why use reddit? It's just as trash for censored info as vanguard is for a potential backdoor into our pcs for the ccp
Hardware bans are not really effective considering you can spoof hardware id's pretty easily. But it will make people that don't know how to do that, stay banned if they get caught.
Yeah theory is 1 thing, and practice is another.
I'm aware this system may be bypassed, but at least it would deter 'casual' cheaters.
@@Vandiril With one of the most invasive anti-cheat methods ever. Yeah.... congrats we got all the "casual" cheaters at the small expense of Tencent having access to all of our hardware.
@@Razorhunter9 Riot outplaying everyone.
@@Vandiril 500 years wisdom
as if they dont already when u run the riot client and or league client LOL@@Razorhunter9
The main concern is that vanguard is not only a kernel level anti-cheat, it is a rootkit, most anti-cheats are not rootkits, if someone hacks riot again and injects malware in it MILIONS of people will be pwnd
I did not even know that it was a rootkit! 😲
Then again, I do not really care, I do not play nor WANT to play any more. The 8 years I played was enough.
I am also using linux so I guess I would not even have a choice if I WANTED to. xD
They brob want rootkit version of anti cheat because they have plans to use it also identify and stop smurfing
@@Gamer9o You don't need that to figure out smurfs, lmao.
Did you miss the whole "you have a gift of coal from Valve this xmas" story?
Because Id:ing a computer today is sooo hard. lmao.
Only way to figure out smurs is by analyzing data (to make sure it is not multiple players) AND comparing hw:id. Nothing to do with access level at all.
@@marcusjohansson668yeah it actually fucking sucks I can’t play league of Linux, end of an era I guess 😢
@@Gamer9othey don't care about smurf accounts at all
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the cases of people getting banned not for running cheats but for having typed cheats or valorant cheats in a search bar and then leaving it in the background while they play.
The last time I installed valorant, vanguard ruined my whole system, I couldn't boot it, and I had to restore it. Can't wait for this to happen with League of Legends
It's truly upsetting that a very valued member of the community like Skinspotlights may possibly have to stop all because of Vanguard. That youtube channel has been an amazing source for players since the earliest seasons of the game. Not to mention the countless content creators that rely on custom skins for content or otherwise.
I'm also very wary of data being openly sent freely at any time for any reason without my consent. I think privacy for one's data is something that a lot of players do not consider or even think about unfortunately.
I think that digital privacy will be on of those future things that future generations will laugh on, just like we "laugh" knowing that in the past people could smoke in buildings or Big Pharma could sell cocaine to children.
Not w/o consent. They will ask for it, most people will agree without reading first though.
Tbf skin spotlight shouldn't even exist. The fact riot let him leech revenue this long is astounding.
In Heroes of the storm I don't need to watch UA-cam videos to look at skins. You can play and practice any skin for free in tutorial. Even for characters you don't own.
League is just years behind on basic features.
I don't want skinspotlights to go down but if they're going to force this on all of us then skinspotlights had better also go down.
But they could just make content on Mac??
Finally spyware is coming to League of Legends; I've been waiting so long for this one.
Lmao, dont you have some other games with anticheats?
@@Minetchica_Atroxayes but... no kernel level?
You act as if you havent played a single other online multiplayer game in the last decade. They all have kernal level anti-cheat.
@@kingderpington6082 ?? I've only used my PC for League 😕,
People don’t understand the difference between Vanguard and Battleye. Most people don’t have a data issue with vanguard. It is a security issue. Riot isn’t the problem though. It is like putting a key under the rug at your front door and only telling riot about it. A competent hacker can come along and use this key should they want access to your shit. BATTLEYE IS SECURE IN THIS CASE. They are managed by a company made for anticheat. Vanguard is made by riot, the devs of the league client. IF THIS SOUNDS LIKE TIN HAT SHIT LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE GENSHIN IMPACT ANTICHEAT THING A YEAR AGO. It’s happened, and don’t be surprised if it happens again.
Hey vandiril, I have found a new bug that's on zac that thy haven't fix on weeks, when you max the E and try to cast it, the ability will not follow the mouse, but it will start casting on the back of zac also. the impact zone won't follow the mouse and will stay on zac
"let's make the next season the best season in years, but then we'll force the players to install our malware so we have complete access to their pcs" - someone at riot probably
“Malware” sure bro
@@kelintheranger The moment a "mandatory program" for a videogame is also used as a cryptominer, it becomes malware. It's not 100% given but there's a chance Vanguard could end up as a malware
Its the worst idea i hear in years, the problem of League of Legends isnt the cheaters that is 1 in 100 games. The real problem are the trolls, wintrading and the toxicity
they know that
The problem is people who talk nonsense without knowing the statistics. Like you, for example.
@@alx2903 Nah
thats because you are low elo and dont even play against scripters. In my case ive been playing at high elo +7years from now and it is becoming more and more common to face scripters (Brazil server).
This actually will help with that too. These people are usually purchasing accounts which are mass created using bots. Vanguard will support detecting bots, thus less accounts available to purchase.
Supply and Demand states that the available accounts will become more expensive, thus making less people willing to purchase them
One part you missed is Vanguard malware can prevent you from playing if your windows settings "are conducive to cheating" and prevent you from opening other programs even when the game is not open
Sounds big but more likely just means it stops you opening cheating programs. Not a huge deal
Bordering on straight up malware 💀
yeah just isn't worth it for a game
@@collegestuff2511 nah it's not borderline, it straight up is.
Big brother is watching!
Vanguard could be a big problem because of malwares, as it's always running, as a kernel level security system, it's basically a root inside your computer and they say that's okay, so if someone could get a breach there, you're basically done for.
I’m scared of this 😬. With that said, over the years riot has sort of gained my trust. They do some really, really stupid stuff over their. Like really stupid. However, I don’t think they’re stupid enough to expose you to malware. I’m not saying that it’s not possible and that I’m not scared that it could happen. All I’m saying is that I have a little bit of faith in what they say. Take it from someone who has had vanguard running in the background of their PC for the better part of 2 years. I’m just one guy but I do think they are not dumb enough to brick your PC.
@@kelintheranger Yeah for sure, but since tencent is behind everything and it's filliated with the Chinese government, who would know haha, either way breaches happen, so we could get exposed
@@kelintheranger over their what?
I'm completely sure a LOT of people will get banned for no reason with no chance to recover their account
Imagine trusting Tencent with a rootkit.
lmao prob all the parts in your phone are from china, they don't care about the weird porn on your pc lil bro
dont play no one wants you around anyway
Tencent has 11,000+ CCP members on the staff. So in essence you are trusting the CCP with a rootkit. Totally not sus at all with WW3 right around the corner and CCP wanting to push their rootkit to hundreds of millions of PCs around the world.. Totally not for a cyber attack right?
🤷♂️
Because they are so much less trustworthy than other companies that also have rootkits on your pc.
RIP like, 75% of their userbase with potato PC
yeppppppppppp
literally everyone who actually had a potato based system in 32 bits got unsupported overnight, what are you talking about?
Literally a fuck you to our guys over there at sea
@@papercottonThere's a difference between 32 bits and this. Only really old machines were 32 bits only and supporting it is legitimately a nightmare considering the client is barely functioning.
i already have to play league in mega low, cant reduce effects under medium bcs else it freezes and crashes, and have to enable some very specific things so that i have more than 10 fps... i'll never install vinguard and just stop league if they dont cancel it, sad
I agree with everything in the video but I'm not sure about the list of kernel anti-cheat, as example I've digged in PunkBuster (because I remember was used in many different games I played) and seems is not operating on kernel level, as described on their web site: PunkBuster does a Real-time, continuous memory scanning during gameplay and is integrated directly with game's engine, so they work directly with publisher/devs to enable PunkBuster directly in the games. I will not going through all the list tbh but I'm not sure about it :/ am I wrong?
I can't believe everybody already forgot the chronoshift case, where a rioter was ordered by riot to hack a community member that was the head of the project. Giving kernel level access to a company with the history of sending people after you and hacking your computer if they dont like what you do to their game? I hope that vanguard do not get added, i already stopped playing valorant beacause of this.
Vanguard is the reason I didnt start playing valorant
League was one of the few competitive games i could play because due to the nature of my work, i cant have kernel level programs on personal devices at all. Now i cant, nearly a decade of skins/play will be gone now sadly. I wasnt high rank i mostly played for fun but i guess this is healthier since the game was getting super toxic.
can't you keep your work and personal devices separate? Why are you playing league on a work pc?
@@oxey_as a technically govt employed worker for a school district, even personal devices are bound by the rules. For example i cant have tik tok on my personal phone either.
@@Jzwiz BRO just buy MAC XDDDDDD
Damn that's crazy - what country are you from if you don't mind me asking?
@@thecsslife usa
Scusate se chiedo ma sono un po' paranoico. Se i programmi in questione, come quelli per modificare le skin e mettere quelle custom, sono installati sul pc ma NON in uso durante le partite dopo che avranno implementato questo nuovo sistema daranno comunque problemi?? Cioé se li ho installati vengono detectati ugualemnte?
sorry for maybe the stupid question but jst to be sure.
All of our source code got leaked and we refused to pay the ransom, now download our always running kernel level anticheat so this doesn't happen again.
Nah man, I was already close to quitting League, this is the final nail in the coffin.
okay bye
me to f this shit, can t wait to play new season rank
Yep. Riots greed exceeded all our expectations
@@gamerulrafihd55 Same, let's fucking goooo
see ya on the rift soon!
Riot making sure I quit my league addiction
That list of games in the link is misleading.
It features games that are not even played anymore/service stopped.
S4 League (seen shortly on a frame at 3:08), f.e. is not serviced anymore.
Huge security issues with this but even if you decide to ignore that I would still consider Vanguard way worse than the other common anti-cheats out there today. At least on those ones you get to "opt-in" to being spied on by launching the game. With Vanguard you're being watched at all times.
I'm preemptively uninstalling the game and it'll stay like that unless they walk back on this.
The problem with having an anti-cheat running 24-7 is that you could be doing modding or something similar for another game and get flagged and banned for it even tho you didn't actually cheat. My friend had that happen with destiny 2 and got his account banned for 2 YEARS. It also will most likely flag people modding league skins and maps.
that and a lot of us like, do other things on our machines? I might be playing league and have several random tabs open and whatever other programs I'm working on going, needing to be saved. do we just accept now that when we play league of legends, we are risking having our machine crash and losing our data? that's just part of playing league now? it's insane.
It is pretty sad that Riot does not go into further detail on all the problems that come with Vanguard in their Season 14 Video. They know people would not like it.
A small group of friends got together and installed valorant about two years ago during the "cheating crisis" in Cs Go which was pretty much perpetual.
They installed it got vanguard and at first nothing was off tho their PC's were running a lot hotter, putting it off to game engine being inefficient becuase its Riot they kept on playing. Enjoyed the game with some equipment hiccups (again tossing it up to Riot client) and next day one of them had to change his BIOS settings, one had their entire gaming setup just blocked (razer headphones and keyboard) and couldn't use them.
Very fun thing to put your players through.
For a software that is kernel based, if found to have a vulnerability it's gonna be a catastrophe for users and the company as a whole! Kernel level software is not like user mode software (Normal programs we install) it's literally the software that define the very nature of your operating system and how it interacts and utilizes resources!
A vulnerability/bug of such scale is legit no joke, so Riot better not mess this up and have a shitload of bugs like we see on League.
I'm a software engineer. Kernel level anticheats only stop so much. All it will do, is increase the prices of cheats because vanguard is still bypassable, extremely easily. It's not like you're reversing denuvo.
Vanguard is terrible. You can get banned for doing absolutely nothing but development work. Some applications, like debuggers, will trigger it without the game even running.
"I don't really like this game so to play it I've been cheating." Bro)))
Valorant have about 8+ private cheats, even for now. Vanguard can't help with this. But it can trigger some bluescreens in video editing programs or visual code/microsoft visual studio + Tencent is 100% CCP controlled company.
Yepp. Even running your own containers or VM's may cause a ban. If you do any IT related work on your PC its very likely that vanguard will either lead to you ban in league or it will mess up you OS
Indeed, and as I code and plan to be a game dev, the likelihood of any of that triggering an always-on anti-cheat is pretty high.
@@howl404 wrong comment buddy
There are people who defend vanguard being added and claim that people who don't want it have something to hide. Yet none of them mention how it makes the game only playable on one OS, how it kills custom skins and map skins, or how it can get you banned in other games.
Also the "Do you have something to hide?" Bullshit that comes up whenever something like this is discussed is so half-baked. No I'm not doing any illegal shit but that doesn't mean any of my private data is anyone's concern.
@@ExActa its not like china doesnt have your data already. tencent knows everything already x d
@@talontedperson1305 speak for yourself
Nothing new, to be honest. Every time people have some issue these types come out in droves! I personally won't play LoL any longer once this change gets implemented since I like my Linux and despise Windows (though I do use it as a VM to avoid having to work through Wine just to play games), but I've been thinking about quitting anyway since the horrid changes to matchmaking they did in September. I've been playing just a couple of ARAMs a week recently and even that was not as much fun - compared to other games. But whatever - let Riot keep shooting themselves in their feet (and hands, if so they wish), the more time I'll have for PoE.
People may not be interested in custom skins, may only use windows, and may care more about not seeing cheaters than worry about the 40th security breach they have in their PCs. It seems no ome can't be pleased, either you complain about cheaters or cry about possible problems.
They should have two separate League ladders, those who have Vanguard and those who don't, That way the people can choose. Do you want to play OG league with the possibility of running into a scripter? Or do you want a moderated experience but at the cost of your privacy?
Clueless thinking they actually care about the player and not the money/data
lol, there are just 2 ranked game modes and as a Master+ tier player I often spend over 20 minutes searching for a game. Imagine making a Vanguard and non-vanguard version of all the game modes so the 0 active players split between twice the game modes. Maybe if they combined that with multisearch allowing you to queue up in multiple game modes to lower the serach time but that's unreal... RITO won't ever make something that enchances the QoL in their game.
Yeah you totally don't have C for suggesting that. Maybe it's best you don't play this game
Vanguard doesn't let me play because it detects my laptop lightup software as cheating...
Vandiril in a few weeks: Gamebreaking bug, vanguard logo on every skill icon appears after you dance in the enemy's fountain!
underated comment
Quick! Someone make a custom skin about Phone Huawei but with Vanguard logo instead.
@@cloud-wr1hs idk why but i have the vibe of
hacker hack ea for titanfall i think riot deserve the same joke XD
League would rather add more moving parts that will break or have a breach or privacy via site hack. However Riot would still rather do this and issue a cease and desist to the guy who offered to optimize client interface and debug fatal errors.
Can't wait for everyones credit card info to get leaked and we all get chat restricted for a month and set back to honor level 0.
What about us who play on steam deck / linux ? are we losing all the compatibility?
Yes. Definitively over. Some time it seemed like Riot accepts some people are playing from Linux but now they clearly no longer care.
Every LOL news article I see is one more reason I am glad to have stopped playing back when the Ruination started.
How can they not know this will significantly affect their player base
This isnt just a dumb change where people type"yeah i quit", people will actually quit for multitude of reasons wether they want it or not
They already know, but they have to implement this so the game wouldn't get overrun by cheaters
They know. But it's a price they're willing to pay to stop cheating
@@keleeecheating on this game almost only happens at very high elo, it's not a commun problem
people had the same opinion when it was announced with valorant, but valorant is doing well
it also stops bots in low elos@@elrenegat61
When an anti-cheat has more access to the computer than you do something is sus.
There's tons of stuff on your PC that has more rights than even the user admin account. That's not defending Vanguard, but this comment is so uninformed...
@@Ruhrpottpatriot when ppl said this is not safe their response is
trust guys trust
this is fkcing sus and when it's RIOT GAMES who did it on RIOT CLIENT
this is all but not safe
@@Ruhrpottpatriot And most of them are essential things like drivers. Not an anti cheat system. Not even EAC or Battleeye runs at system boot. Vanguard has as much privileges as your display or chipset driver which is absolutely wrong.
@@kataude3339 At some point you have to trust another party. You have to trust Intel/AMD that their CPUs don't have backdoors (Spectre and Meltdown) or hidden features (around 20% of the available CPU commands are not documented and "hidden"). You have to trust a Certificate Authority that they don't validate malicious actors (Online-Banking). You have to trust your crypto library that it handles requests and responses correctly (Heartbleed). You have to trust your OS that it doesn't send private data (Win 11). Log4j's security vulnerability (CVE-2021-44228) showed, that even a "simple" logging library can be used for privilege escalation and malware distribution.
And those are only a few of the computer related trust scenario's. You trust your Car's manufacturer, you trust your airplane's manufacturer and operator, and so on...
Fact is: People complain about Vanguard and say they don't trust it, when the very same people trust a whole slew of different actors where a misuse of said trust is far wider reaching. Oh, and the same people buy LITERAL spyware from Amazon, Google and Apple so they can control their fancy RGB rainbow barf. The very same people buy webcams and other IoT devices for 10 bucks from china, which have been proven to be used in malicious botnets against hospitals, government agencies and everything else.
@@riven4121
Windows doesn't just let you run arbitrary stuff in Kernelland. We're far away from the Realmode DOS days. One point of Secureboot (which Vanguard requires) and TPM's is to make things like Virtualization-based Security (VBS) and Memory Ingegrity/hypervisor-protected code integrity (HVCI), even possible.
These two concepts _assume_ that the Kernel can be compromised and check each piece of code **before** it's executed for a signature and block it if the signature doesn't match. And even if it passes the validation the code is only run inside a separate isolated virtual environment.
To quote Microsoft: "Kernel mode code integrity is the Windows process that checks all kernel mode drivers and binaries before they're started, and prevents unsigned or untrusted drivers or system files from being loaded into system memory. Memory integrity also restricts kernel memory allocations that could be used to compromise the system, ensuring that kernel memory pages are only made executable after passing code integrity checks inside the secure runtime environment, and executable pages themselves are never writable. That way, even if there are vulnerabilities like a buffer overflow that allow malware to attempt to modify memory, executable code pages cannot be modified, and modified memory cannot be made executable."
If you look at 7:30 in this video, you see Secureboot, IOMMUs and HVCI/VBS in the flowchart and EVERYTHING needs to be enabled for Vanguard to work. Is this fail-proof? No of course not. Nobody ever claimed that, but it greatly reduces the attack surface and possible impact.
The average user is **far** more likely to get malware by clicking on a link in an email or visiting a malicious site on the web than by a malicious actor exploiting Vanguard. League is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too insignificant for a widespread attack and exploiting it requires far too many resources, when stuff like 10USD IoT devices or Office exists.
I remember Vanguard crashing my old PC when Valorant was released.
I feel like a lot of people are going to get banned for the custom skins and stuff from the previous years that just forgot.
So If someone, let's say If someone able to take over Vanguard, isn't that just expose a massive community of vulnerable computers that that person will have complete control over?
Yes. ESEA got hacked and the hackers mined bitcoin.
Pretty much, not just complete control but they could probably be completely stealthy whilst doing so, even if you're a cybersecurity professional it could be made almost impossible to detect. Also, it's not just that it's kernel level, it's also that it must be open 24/7
@@nalarocks101 Correction they did not get hacked. ESEA themself were responisble for this and they had to pay fines as punishment.
@@rdom9680 It doesn't need to run 24/7. It starts on boot, but you can then also just close it if you don't intend to play League.
@@abysskeeper2476 they have not yet been given the fine, lawsuit is still going.
its a good time to say goodbye to league
I have been playing on and off since 2015 and I have seen one player ever that I was confident was cheating. I refuse to believe league has a big enough cheating problem to justify this. As for Skin Spotlight, its probably in riots best interest to sort something out with them. I believe they help sell skins for Riot and the community needs to know what they're buying before they do. Worst case would be SP is shutdown by this and Riot makes their own channel for it.
One thing you forgot to mention is that for Mac users, vanguard will not be implemented, which means the game will essentially stay the same for them. Furthermore, this could mean that the game could be played on Linux through something like Darling, which is essentially wine/proton but for mac emulation, though I think that's a reach and if it will be done, it won't be any time soon.