Deconstructing "God's Perfect Justice"
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2023
- For centuries, the notion of God's perfect justice has been deeply ingrained in Christian teachings. It suggests that God, as the ultimate judge, holds every individual accountable for their actions, ensuring that justice is served. However, as we critically examine this concept, we begin to unravel the layers of complexity and raise important questions.
In this episode, we question whether the idea of perfect justice is compatible with the concept of grace.
Please keep in mind that all everything I say here is my subjective opinion, and is intended to deconstruct fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christian ideologies from an ex christian perspective
Why I left Christianity | • From Holy To Heretic |...
Why I make ex-christian deconstruction content | • Why I Make Ex-Christia...
Goodreads | / kristi-burke
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Outro Music | "Pixels" by Jeff Kaale
tags | Ex christian, deconstructing christianity, exvangelical, former fundie, leaving christianity, gospels, jesus, bible, god, christian, evangelism, apologist, atheist vs christian, agnostic, recovering from religion
Let's be honest you are literally saving lives with this type of content
She saved mine about two years ago. 😢😊
How so?
@@luisaalmontevega2016
Sorry to hear that
Jeremiah 13:5
“This is what the LORD says: “Cursed are those who put their trust in mere humans, who rely on human strength and turn their hearts away from the LORD.”
1 Timothy 2:14
And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result.
@@johnmark6628 there a lot of people that spend their lives living inside the limiting beliefs of christianity, disregarding life and kinda just waiting for end of days
@@danielbelteshazzar-mg7rb The thing is that, from what I've observed, people inside this religions live very limited lives, and the only way they are able to endure that is by having the consolation that something better in going to come when they die.
Why would we suffer eternally for something we did in a finite universe? Is that justice?! Thank you for asking the questions that have never made sense.
Eriika America's artificial intelligence little cipher hashtags and Linus torvald atheist technology
Well, if sin causes your suffering, and you enjoy sinning too much to ever give it up, the suffering will never cease. Why do you think people on meth have such a hard time getting clean?
@@theboombody The thing is, different actions are more egregious than others and people have different degrees of controlling themselves. A thief can be taught why stealing is wrong and never do it again. I'm not saying we shouldn't be punished for our actions but there are small, petty things that just don't scale up to mass murder or something. Should a child who lies to their parents about eating from the cookie jar deserve death and eternal agony?
You show you can't read since the bible made it CLEAR why. Hey, how did we get the universe on its own? 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@theboombody People have a hard time getting off of Meth because meth was developed specifically to mimic the psychotic effect of religious fanatics. Meth was developed by the Japanese as a way to produce Kamikaze pilots who would selflessly kill themselves using their planes as guided missiles, before we could do it with TECHNOLOGY. They would hype them up on meth, then indoctrinate them to religiously be willing to kill themselves for a SPIRITUAL REWARD. Meth was not developed as a medication, it was developed as a weapon, and it is still working. It was not intended to be recovered from it was intended to INDUCE PSYCHOSIS, just like religion does.
I grew up Christian. I suffered from panic attacks, night terrors, and anxiety. It was compounded by my family and community telling me those were satanic attacks from the enemy, which made me even more anxious. After deconstructing, I feel calm, confident, and have a sound mind for the first time in my life. Looking back, I feel like Tweak from South Park: gaslit to death and controlled through fear, being told it was love, grace, and hope. If you are questioning whether you’re being manipulated or controlled, you are.
I was in the same situation as you and I came to the conclussion that the Bible draws in demons or witches to attack us.After I quit I feel more mentally stable, I haven't had bad dreams anymore and I don't feel sick. I used to get all kinds of diseases while reading the Bible, I even talked to demons , anything bad but nothing benevolent. I wouldn't reccomend the Bible to anyone. You will only get your energy stolen and evil beings will try to control you.
I will stay a followers of Jesus but I hate this Idea of satanic attacks to. It usually Ende with blaming the victim. See IT this way: If evil has a Sense, for example punishing you for unbelieve, IT IS Not true evil anymore. Because true evil IS Chaos and IT attacks the good people First. All attempts to blame attacks on Lack of faith, rationalize IT etc conceptually turn demons into the police of God 😢
41 years old, was a Christian since I was 7 years old. Recently gone through the awakening and can breathe for the first time. Thank you for being there for me with your videos. Please keep opening minds, your work is so valuable. Much love!
Absolutely I feel that also. I used to freak out if something bad was happening, thinking it was Good punishing me for something. Not even that bad, maybe not having a productive day at work, losing my keys, my shower door being disjointed. Everything was an existential lesson and every choice laden with eternal consequences. Now a bad day at work is just a bad day, a broken door can be fixed by looking at the mechanism, taking a break and letting my mind solve it, again losing keys just takes a sit down and letting my mind drift rather than freaking out. There is so much stress and pressure thinking that every moment is guided by God. It is so tiring. Glad you are feeling better.
@@TracyCooper-nq4ff❤
Actually, you’re forgetting and taking out the parts that Jesus Christ was on the cross took the sin, so all was placed on him even yours, Jesus Christ took the punishment, hell and death, that you deserve on the cross, and he was innocent!
So he was perfect, and he became sin for us! So God judged him Because it was like Jesus Christ committed every sin and he was getting judged for it, the sin you committed was placed on him and he took it instead of you getting punished so Jesus took the hell that you deserve on the cross, so that’s where God’s justice and mercy perfectly fits together!
I hope this, God bless, Amen 🙏
I always got a bad taste in my mouth when the pastor would say that we all deserve hell or we are filthy rags. Like, really?
That one really messed me up. I spent many teenage years believing I was like a dirty rag to god.
Religion makes its profiting convincing you you’re poisoned and that they have the “cure”.
We all deserve Hell because we all steal, lie, deceive, etc., but to call us filthy rags is hitting below the belt. Why would God create filthy rags and boast about it?
But he/she lives in a castle of wealth.
If you are no better than filthy rags, then You could easily be made to embrace further suffering, or be used as a tool to oppress others. A weaponized belief system of Perfect tyranny.
I “fought the good fight” from birth. Met my abuser in Bible College, went into youth ministry, and had a child. It wasn’t until the abuse started that I began to question god. I could not make since with why I ended up a single mom and lost myself. I was broken and traumatized. Was I being punished for a sin I didn’t know about? I loved Jesus so much, I served him with my whole being. I had “dates” with Jesus while my peers dated each other. I read and lived his “word” as closely as I could. It took an abusive marriage for me to see the abuse my narc deity had been doing from birth. That very god belief system wrecked my family for generations. And they were all in the ministry. The unfairness and injustice was too much for me to believe there is an actual loving god. Just no for me. Thanks but no thanks. 😢
Find on youtube all NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. Many questions will be answerd outsite of 'faith'....and will comfort you so much!
God of the Bible doesn’t exist god is u and I that’s why we take care of ourselves not any invisible god taking care of us
Don’t give up! Read the word and his promises
Psalm 24:16
“righteous person may fall seven times, but he gets up again. However, in a disaster wicked people fall.”
Galatians 5
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty.
@@Lovenic93 I did not mean to give any impression that I was looking for a back to god. I most definitely am not. After doing my own research, I don’t believe there is a god. And if there is a god and it turns out to be the god of the Bible…. I don’t want anything to do with him.
@@sharla7405 we all make our own choices . This reminds me of a parable Jesus taught. 🤔
Mark 4
Parable of the Farmer Scattering Seed
14 “The farmer plants seed by taking God’s word to others. 15The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message, only to have Satan come at once and take it away.
16The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy.
17But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word.”
Keep up the good work! I am glad I found your channel. I am on 2 years out, having been an evangelical for many years. The further away I get the more irrational my former worldview appears. Like you I have a desire to help those struggling to get out and get thier real freedom.
The only true freedom is being in the body of Christ as a born again Christian which is something that no ex-Christian has ever been in the first place.
When you're a true born again Christian the existence of God gets confirmed along with the confirmation of our salvation.
Even if you were an ex- true born again Christian (which you are NOT) you wouldn't be able to deny the existence of God due to having been a true born again Christian.
Would you be able to deny the existence of your ex-wife or ex-husband?
Of course, you wouldn't be able to do that and the same would go for an ex-true born again Christian when it comes to the existence of God, you wouldn't be able to deny his existence despite being an ex-true born again Christian.
By stating that you're an atheist as an ex-Christian it just reveals that you were never a true born again Christian to begin with.
@@danielblair4413
🥱😴💤
@@danielblair4413 you are correct. Romans 10:9 makes it clear that it is believed in your heart and God knows our hearts. Kristi obviously never accepted Jesus in her heart and God knows that.
@@2fast2block says: *you are correct. Romans 10:9 makes it clear that it is believed in your heart and God knows our hearts. Kristi obviously never accepted Jesus in her heart and God knows that.*
Yeah...and it's sad because those who are calling themselves ex-Christians like Kristi who were never true born again Christians to begin with have been deceived into thinking that they were and now that they left something that they never were to begin with it's going to even be more difficult for them to get truly saved.
@@danielblair4413 somehow they take pride in them being deceived. As you know, their empty pride is all temporary. They refused God's free gift of salvation and will have severe regret at their judgment. I'm not going to say it's sad, because it's what they chose. It's on them entirely.
Kristi has earned my “Favorite UA-camr of the Year” award. Wonderfully honest, insightful, and authentic. Bravo, and Happy 2024! You are dear!!!
I became an atheist after reading the Bible. I kept coming across verses that were very sexist but I kept ignoring them and making excuses until I couldn’t keep making excuses so I started asking questions. I knew that the Russian baptist church I was going to had sexist ideas about women, their role in the church, and marriage. At a Bible study I literally got yelled at because I said that women and men are equal and that women should be allowed to preach. I was only 16 at the time and it was extremely traumatizing. For awhile after that I still tried to find answers and I came to the conclusion that the Bible is a bunch of random texts written by a bunch of sexist men. I’ve become more connected to myself and a happier person since I’ve become an atheist. It feels empowering to hear preachers judge and shame people and it not affect me anymore. I no longer feel guilty for being human.
And now we analyze how we used to think and is cringy! 😅 We are way happier now.
Yikes. I went to a Russian Baptist church myself. I’m sorry you had to deal with those people. I think the layer of bigotry is extra thick due to the Slavic roots.
@@michaelchoruss7544 I’ve noticed that many young people go to the baptist church to find someone to marry and then they pretty much leave and don’t come back😂
@@-uz4xq yeah… I honestly don’t know what else any young person finds there lmao
@@michaelchoruss7544 Congratualton now you are into a cult called "atheims" where people are alone, none cares for anyone, No God, No comunity, No Soul, but people run to kiss godless and souless people ass because they have no God, you will thinking that you will be nothing once death (good luck with that idea) and you got nothing to offer to us, to yourself and to the worlds, you are just an alone godless person. No hope for this godless generation, let's hope the next is a bit more intelligent and better.
Im a Christian with a lot of the same questions,i deconstructed for most of what I have been taught
I was a Mennonite,a baptist, and whatever
Today I live my life by my gut feeling, basically I live by the inter voice, I stopped judging others. No I'm experiencing a freedom most Christians don't have a clue
I personally believe that the doctrine of hell is a false teaching,i believe God will restore all things back to himself
Maybe we're getting a lot of things wrong.
@@user-pj7oz5do7g if it's not your own experience it's no good, I need to struggle to get the truth it doesn't come easy
Despite being subject to a spiritual authority, I never felt very enslaved as a Christian. I'm told I can't do drugs, steal, or sleep around, and a few other things. I'm like, "So, that's it? I can't do just those few things, but I can still go to monster truck shows, read Russian literature, invest in stocks, pursue a career path of my choosing, and all that?" Doesn't sound very restrictive.
@@stonemaze9925 what is your point exactly?
@@theboombody as an atheist I don't do drugs because I realise the fact that it's pointless, some alcohol, but not exaggerated... I don't steal because I know how annoying it is to lose your stuff and don't want to be the cause why others have to go through that... I don't sleep around because my wife would mind and it would be a sign of disrespect, she'd divorce me and that would be a sad thing, it would also be annoying for my children, they deserve a stable home, and I like my wife, so it's not all that complicated... it sounds plausible to me that some people take it a bit too serious and then just can't cope... to me the belief never stuck, I was raised in a catholic environment, boys only school even... I still go to church for an occasional funeral, my mother yelled once at me that I was going to go to hell, and that just felt annoying, I'll deconstruct that hell, is what I thought to cope. The rest of the family didn't really take the religion all that serious, it was not something that was ever discussed... church was for occasions like baptising a kid, weddings, funerals, kind of the cathalyst of society, the thing that brings the people together when it's needed for people to support each other, they do that right, no complaints there.
The church trains you to gloss over the incoherent parts. I changed careers to become an editor and with those tools suddenly "saw" all the stuff I had just let through without question all those decades: sense, continuity, and self-conflict in a work. Great analysis here.
Care to give me 3 examples. I’m attempting deconstruction.
God gives you the choice of where you will spend eternity . Choose wisely
I've always enjoyed the quick, straight to the point Tiktik videos & had no idea she was on UA-cam. Subscribed!!
happy to have you here!
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 Christianity's essence is worshipping an invisible, magic being that promotes slavery, misogyny, rape tolerance, bigotry, genocide, etc. She has been pretty clear on this.
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 "Christianity's essence":
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Jesus! Let me in!
Why should I?
So I can save you!
Save me from what?
From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in!!!
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 But that is the basic fundamental idea of Christianity! Or to put it another way: He sent Himself to have Himself killed as a sacrifice to Himself to save humanity from Himself.
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 If hell wasn't created by your god, then by whom?
Roll into this conversation the _setup_ that is Original Sin, and _justice_ becomes a total farce. Would a loving and just Heavenly Father condemn to eternal torture _by default_ every one of his earthly children _just_ for being _born,_ an event over which none of them had any control are input? The _entrapment_ and hereditary nature of Original Sin _defies_ justice!
I'm glad I found your channel. You share some of the best views on deconstructing religious beliefs on UA-cam. Glad I subbed.
Thanks so much for your support! Happy you're here!
@@jezebelvibes Actually, you’re forgetting and taking out the parts that Jesus Christ was on the cross took the sin, so all was placed on him even yours, Jesus Christ took the punishment, hell and death, that you deserve on the cross, and he was innocent!
So he was perfect, and he became sin for us! So God judged him Because it was like Jesus Christ committed every sin and he was getting judged for it, the sin you committed was placed on him and he took it instead of you getting punished so Jesus took the hell that you deserve on the cross, so that’s where God’s justice and mercy perfectly fits together!
I hope this, God bless, Amen 🙏
I just wanted to thank you for your videos. Although I came out as an atheist a little over a year now, I still watch videos to help me understand more. I must say your videos have been the most helpful. I feel like I'm sitting down with a friend and not a philosopher. Your way of describing and explaining things are truly down to earth. It makes it easier for me to speak to others when I'm questioned. Thank you so much.
I so admire Kristi's honesty.
I appreciate that your content is focused, logical and obviously sincere, and hopefully will help many people in situations similar to yours. Keep up the good work!
Logical? Did she even explain how we got this all on its own? 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block Do you ALWAYS lie to promote your religion? Or is thermodynamics a special topic for you to lie about?
@@2fast2block You want us to use logic when you believe in a book that has talking animals, wizard, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, healing the sick and rising from the dead.
@@tiredofliars you gave this to show I lied.....(blank). And....you're serious.
@@who6184 nope, you keep on ignoring what I gave....as always.
I thought I was the only one to gave these thoughts Kristi
Love this! Here's what I got from it: justice is of the earth and grace is of the spirit.
Well done, Kristi!
Thank you!
Great one Kristi!!
Kristi is doing a great job answering some of the same questions I have struggled with for decades. Possibly we're getting a lot of things wrong that is written in our bibles. I have recently started re-studying the bible and have found several things that are completely different from what I was taught as a Christian.
I have, from childhood, always insisted to know much more than a preacher would be willing, or able to expound on.
That is how I realized at about age 12, that religion is not ever to be trusted.
The bible is full of lies, inconsistencies and threats.
Therefore it needs to be completely disregarded.
That is very true. I don't think the actual bible is much better though.
As always you are super eloquent. Thank you for making these videos❤
Loving your channel!
So happy you're here 😊
Yes. We need Kristi. Say the truth loud and proud!
Yes we do need her. She's a voice humanity needs.
Just subscribed. Kristi has dissected and debunked this hogwash with thorough, logical analysis.
Show how logical you are and explain how we got the universe on its own. 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block THE REAL LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS - EASILY LOOKED UP making 2fast2block a liar.
First law of thermodynamics: When energy moves into or out of a system, the system’s internal energy changes in accordance with the law of conservation of mass.
Second law of thermodynamics: The state of the entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time.
Third law of thermodynamics: Entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero is zero.
@@g.rayhowell4289 shallow thinker, energy can't leave an isolated system and your..."When energy moves into or out of a system" is rather silly. Also, the universe is winding down. It's not even up for argument.
@@2fast2block You are wrong and you can not change those laws because you just want to.
@@luis_sa78 I"m wrong but you have NO evidence to show it. You go by science fiction. Get over your empty self.
When I was very young the whole idea of hell and eternal damnation never sat right with me.
Why would God punish normal people who weren't "Christains"?
Now that I'm older, I can say without fear...I don't buy that.
@Skeletor Likes potatoes your indoctrination doesn't allow you to acknowledge that you have been brainwashed with a twisted fantasy that infantilizes your world view. You must obey an invisible, magic sky daddy even when the old book is promoting atrocities. Btw, if sky daddy is an omni God, it is a logical impossibility for it to give its creations free will.
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846 You cannot speak for all of the Christian denominations out there.
@@skeletorlikespotatoes7846
Given the fictional nature of theism, all denominations are bullshit. Thus, if we are to engage the BS properly, we deal with the BS that is before us and address the errors inherent to that.
You may not buy that, but it does not change the truth. The truth can not be changed. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. (Romans 5:8-9) "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners," (1 Timothy 1:15)
@@christophergibson7155
The concept truth with regard to claims about reality is an evaluation predicated on data. The data dismisses theism as fictions to falsehoods.
I suggest you check out propositional logic.
I love your reasoning it’s on point!
you are killing it!
When talking to Christians about this concept.. "Follow Jesus and all will be forgiven", I like to use the analogy of Myra Hindley, one of the Moors murderers, along with Ian Brady in the UK in the 1960's. She became "born again" just before she died, which means, according to the Christian faith she'll go straight to heaven, never mind she committed horrible acts of rape and murder on innocent children. And if the poor victims she murdered are also in heaven; I'm sure they'll be VERY glad to see her arrive!!
Actually, you’re forgetting and taking out the parts that Jesus Christ was on the cross took the sin, so all was placed on him even yours, Jesus Christ took the punishment, hell and death, that you deserve on the cross, and he was innocent!
So he was perfect, and he became sin for us! So God judged him Because it was like Jesus Christ committed every sin and he was getting judged for it, the sin you committed was placed on him and he took it instead of you getting punished so Jesus took the hell that you deserve on the cross, so that’s where God’s justice and mercy perfectly fits together!
I hope this, God bless, Amen 🙏
@@bacontheclown2502 I'm sorry, but your God and his son that I don't believe in and don't think existed anyway, even if they did exist, they are like the Mafia boss saying "That's a nice soul you've got there!" "Be a real shame if anything was to happen to it, like getting burned if you don't do as I say!" I'd rather believe and think it's far more likely we were created by aliens,(The Annunaki) as a slave race so they could mine gold from the Earth. It's written in Sumerian text thousands of years BEFORE Christianity. We have created robots to do our menial tasks for us, so why not an advanced alien civilization? You can't say the human body is a perfect creation from God because it is Not!!! Having the food intake hole next to the air intake hole(The Windpipe),so you can get choked to death, for example, what a stupid design!
I don't believe people like that guys to Heaven, especially if they wait until the last possible minute to convert after a lifetime of commuting such horrible atrocities.
@@Unversed333 you’re completely wrong about that because that’s not what it! It’s not waiting under the deathbed, and then say “ oh, God, please forgive me” no, true repentance is having a change of mind, realizing what you have done is evil in changing your mind about it, and you go to God for forgiveness!
Repentance is a one time thing!
Repentance, asking God to forgive you, then you do evil second later, that is completely false! It’s realizing what you’ve done and you want to change you feel guilty you feel that conviction you know you’ve done evil but you want to do good so you change your mind about it can you come to God you ask him to forgive you and God is so merciful to let someone who doesn’t deserve to go to heaven like he, and I and you, that he let us into his kingdom!
@@bacontheclown2502 if you wait until the last minute to repent, is it because you are being genuine or are you trying to get a "get out of hell" free card?
I prophecise this channel will become one of the best, most popular and resourceful atheist channels on YT
Love the Jezebel shirt. Nice touch.
Kristi, I went through a huge mental breakdown regarding the toxic shame of my catholic upbringing and ran into your channel and have really dug into this subject. I have to say your channel is my favourite on this subject. Your knowlege and and clarity and kind approach is so completely comforting inspite of this crappy subject
Another great video. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
@@jezebelvibesA " Church " advertisement interrupted the normal Google ad sequence that occurs after the video.
I immediately clicked the back button, and the normal advertisements continued on.
Just for your info, not any conspiracy.
Thanks for your efforts to free ppl from Christianism !
Just lies and Kristi ranting. Not much more. Ask Kristi how the universe created itself. 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
Great work Kristi. Keep it up.
What was great work? Did she even allude to how we got all this on its own? 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!! The TRUE LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS
First law of thermodynamics: When energy moves into or out of a system, the system’s internal energy changes in accordance with the law of conservation of mass.
Second law of thermodynamics: The state of the entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time.
Third law of thermodynamics: Entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero is zero.
@@2fast2block Lying again and again about what you BELIEVE the laws of thermodynamics are only serves to point out to EVERYONE, that you are a liar, because looking up the THREE LAWS of THERMODYNAMICS results in the TRUTH, and ANYONE can look them up, proving to themselves that you are a LIAR! Keep it up, you are only proving that you serve an evil and lying god.
Kristi u awesome tx 4 ur insight on this topic
I love your honesty 👍
Yay!!! Another video
If Jesus was perfectly sinless, wouldn't that make sacrificing him perfectly unjust?
Jesus carries the sins of those who want to be saved. And at the end of time places it on satan. Those who don't want be saved must carry their own sin. Which results in the 2nd death.
@@toydigger Jesus, as human, is born of woman and carries the taint of sin "earned" by his ancestors Adam and Eve, just like all humans, he is not sinless and therefore can't pay the price. Besides, as a human he can only pay for his own sins anyway. Jesus as "God" is not human and therefore cannot be a substitute for humans. He has no skin in the game, and besides, "God" is the reason all this sin happened anyway. "God" is directly at fault and to blame.
Besides, the whole virgin birth narrative is ridiculous to begin with.
The Birth of Jesus Christ
Mat 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:19 Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
Obviously if they were still only pledged and it was before they came together, then Joseph didn't find out about Mary being pregnant on their wedding night. Also they aren't married yet, he can't "quietly divorce her". And just how much more "quiet" is handing her a certificate of divorce and sending her packing anyway? It isn't like they had to go through a 90 cooling off period and appear before a judge while being represented by attorneys.
And the whole notion of not wanting to expose her to public disgrace by divorcing her? She's an unmarried "virgin" who is pregnant and we're supposed to believe that if her husband to be 'divorces her" or leaves her "standing at the altar" in any way is going to avoid publicly disgracing her? She would still be living at home until after the wedding. How is it supposed to go unnoticed that she was pregnant and her husband to be refused to marry her because of it? Were they planning on sending her to a convent until she popped out the kid? Or take her on a midnight visit to the local abortion doctor, like conservative parents used to do to avoid disgracing the family?
If Joseph is truly a Righteous man, he knew and followed the laws of the Pentateuch. He finds out Mary is pregnant (it doesn't say how he found out ... or when for that matter, just how big was her baby bulge when he finally found out?) They're not yet married, obviously she cannot be a virgin in his mind and their betrothal contract has been breached, obviously the family cannot provide 'wedding night proof of virginity", so Joseph is going to refuse to marry her OR if it's the wedding night Deut 22: 13-21 seems the likely next step, ending in Deut 22: 20,21
Deu 22:20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman's virginity can be found,
Deu 22:21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Mary is stoned at the door of her father's house for promiscuity.
And if it's pre wedding she was then a virgin pledged to be married who obviously must have had sexual relations with someone, so Deut 22: 22-24 would come into play and she'd still be stoned, UNLESS she could prove she was alone in the country at the time of the "incident" and then she might get off with Deut 22: 25-27, and only "God" would need to be stoned for having relations with a betrothed virgin.
Who first discovered Mary's pregnancy? How far along was she? How did Joseph find out? ("oh by the way Joseph dear, I'm pregnant, but it's ok, it's by the Holy Spirit"). At what point is this "Dream" sent by "God"? For that matter why would "God" wait until Joseph 'found out'? Why would he not reveal it himself before the embarrassing moment?
Ur not the truth LIAR 😅
Yes. Burrabbas was the one to be on that that cross that passover.
It's sad that we have to damage the lives of plants and animals just to stay alive. I think ritualistic animal sacrifices reminded us of that.
So glad you have these videos, just found you today and already watched a bunch of them, and subscribed. You're not proselytizing, you're just asking questions, much needed questions. We're just talking and asking questions. That's all. Nothing dangerous here. The only dangerous things are the things that cannot be questioned. Questions such as, if justice is served, then how is grace given? And, if grace was given, how was justice served? So yeah, in conclusion, grace isn't justice, and justice isn't grace, they are mutually exclusive, they cannot happen at the same time without one canceling out the other. I left an evangelical church like 30 years ago, and I only wish I got out sooner.
I really like your opening comments about the perception of deconstruction by believers. I feel like they believe we deconstruct using only sledgehammers. All our experiences are different, but I feel like a lot of us deconstruct like packing for moving - some things get kept, some get donated, some get tossed, some get repaired
Great explanation, on an unrelated note, your hair and makeup look🤌
Thank you. Well said.
By the way you make excellent points. Keep doing it.
Good work Kristi - a concise summary of the way the atonement is usually presented in a relatively short video. 👍
Even when I was still a Christian ✝️, I came to reject the notion of penal substitution as a load of piffle. I found that I strongly resonated with the ideas of Sharon L Baker (in such books as 'Executing God'). Even Gregory Boyd rejects penal substitution. It simply doesn't make sense (as you've just explained in this video).
(Btw, the reason why I deconverted was because of the problem of suffering).
You and Kristi never cared about making sense. 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block LIAR!!!
First law of thermodynamics: When energy moves into or out of a system, the system’s internal energy changes in accordance with the law of conservation of mass.
Second law of thermodynamics: The state of the entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time.
Third law of thermodynamics: Entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero is zero.
@@g.rayhowell4289 ,energy can't leave an isolated system and your..."When energy moves into or out of a system" is rather silly. Also, the universe is winding down. It's not even up for argument.
@@2fast2block I am simply QUOTING the experts, you are making shit up!
How can a being of 'divine love' hate anything?
If it is 'all-loving' it should not be capable of hatred in any form.
🤔
If you're married and have a family and love them, if someone brutally killed them all, it's loving to you not to hate those who did such a thing. Hope you don't have a family then.
@@2fast2block from this and other posts: you have very serious reasoning problems.
1. Alexander is not God;
2. God would love the murderer as much as the murdered family;
3. Vengence is not love;
4. Vengence is not justice;
5. If the murderer took Jesus in and asked for forgiveness he would get it;
6. If the family believed in the wrong god or in no god they would spend all eternity in hell.
That's the all loving God for you.
It's not a Divine anything. It's a man anything. Man hates, it's a manmade religion. Fake, Fake, Fake!!!
I love your channel.
Again, my socks are rocked by the great Kristi!
All gods, past and present, have been invented by humans to satisfy emotional needs. It's pretty simple really. Religions have been created for the purpose of power and control.
Temporary power and control? We all have temporary lives on this earth.
Thats right
Great video. Subscribed.
thank you!
Very nicely described the relationship between justice and grace, thank you
My first experience in a church, i was 8 years ild, i was taken down to the basement and was told i was "the child if the devil" all because i started my period at that age. That has followed me all ny life, ive went back and forth with church, i was hurt the most by churches, 1 week ago i threw it all out, books, decorations, you name ir and i feel free for the first time in 60yrs
Thank you kristi, you have been part of my journey and you make it easy and gentle for me to get through ❤❤
My response to Christians: if Jesus made the final and ultimate payment for all sins, why does your God send anyone to hell? Why do people get punished for sins that were paid for? Double indemnity much? Is this “just”?
It is most certainly just. You must "receive" (John 1:12 / Romans 5:17 / 2 Thessalonians 2:10)
@@christophergibson7155 hahaha! The mental gymnastics you people play to fool yourselves blows my mind. Ok, dear Jeebus, I RECEIVE IT! Meaning … what exactly? I receive mail, I receive food, I receive a paycheck. I receive my daughter’s love in the form of hugs, attention, affection, and time spent together. You “give” your life to an imaginary friend and it means literally nothing in real terms.
Nobody has a valid argument for the existence of God. If somebody did, that argument would come up in every debate about the existence of God. That person would win the Nobel Prize. It would be headline news. Over and over. There could be literally NO END to the news reporting … but … well, just checked the news again. Nothing.
@@rhaynes8955 There are no mental gymnastics when it comes to the Word of God, only the conviction of the Holy Spirit. It's clear. Many harden themselves to the words of Jesus, because they love their sinful ways.
And pride is the biggest stronghold. Jesus spoke plainly about it..."And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, (Jesus said He was the light of this world John 8:12) and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” (John 3:19-21) And one analogy would be a thief who is hiding from the police, because he does not want to be seen (exposed) and caught. So, it is with every sinner before God. For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is why we need the Savior Jesus. He is the only one who can forgive and cleanse from sin. If you are honest with yourself, you are a moral law breaker of God's 10 commandments. Guilty as charged. But the fantastic good news is that Jesus paid that debt and punishment of sin that was due you! Now, He can give you His righteousness in exchange. You only have to repent, and trust Him alone to save you. He is ever so faithful !
@@christophergibson7155 blah blah blah.
I did it for 52 years. Was a church planter and missionary. Led people to Christ … and then, my eyes were opened. All, 100%, every last little shred of your arguments have been refuted time and time and time again.
But you go on ahead, believing in your talking, snakes, talking, donkeys, magic trees in a pristine garden, impossible feats of magic, err um miracles performed by your superheroes, while you laugh at every other religion’s ridiculous claims. Yours are no better than theirs and they’re all worthless. A bunch of made up tripe by shamans and power-hungry goatherders, intent on controlling societies, controlling land, controlling women, controlling wealth, and controlling their fellow man.
So it is our act of obedience that saves us , not God's grace.@@christophergibson7155
What i find strange is that god allowed people to sin in the Old Testament and didn't punish them. For example god asked Samuel to tell Saul to kill all of the Amalekites: men, women and children which is horrific. And i find it weird thqt god murders and asks people to murder for him in the Old Testament when one of the Ten Commandments is You shall not murder. Doesn't make sense to me.
Try gnostic Christians and Cathares. Without the old Testament Life IS much more Sane 😂
Lovin the vids
Very good points I have to remember them and use them.
Kristi, thank you for your honesty. It takes courage. I have a question, would you like to believe there is something more after we pass on from this world? Just a thought. If there is nothing after this life, we will cease to exist.
What good is wondering what one would like to believe? Just a thought.
@@marcomoreno6748 Thank you for taking the time and sharing your thoughts. I meant this to be a rhetorical question. At one time Kristi believed in something and now things have changed. Peace
If the two philosophers below are right, this will be a real party.
"After your death you will be what you were before your birth." ― Arthur Schopenhauer
"There is nothing after death, and death itself is nothing." ― Seneca the Younger
there is no honesty, for someone who talks obsessivly for what he or she does not even believe... Do not lie.
Why is Kristi opposed to answering this question?
Everything you said, I've thought before..but felt maybe I'm alone in analyzing the whole salvation message of Jesus in Christianity. Whenever a diehard Christian defends their faith, they typically use circular reasoning. "The Bible, the gospel message is true because the Bible says so..blah blah" BUT, the Bible is just an ancient iron age mostly historically inaccurate book written by men over thousands of years in order to form a religion. Thanks for all you do in explaining things! 👏
By stating these things you are just trying to justify your sinful ways. And Jesus said it clearly when he said....
"And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." (John 3:19-20) The Bible is not just a historical book. It is the Word of God. You have no excuse. If you really are desiring to know the truth, you would seek for it. If you continue to love your sin, then you will also continue to hate God. But there is hope for you. Jesus has shown you the way. "I am the light of the world.
He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life. (John 8:12)
@@christophergibson7155
If you are a Christian and believe in the Trinity then this goes: Jesus = God, Father = God, Holy Spirit = God
If you are a Christian then you most likely believe that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, so: Jesus = Word of God.
If you are a Christian then then you also say that the bible is the Word of God which you did in your comment here, so: Bible = Word of God.
Now if we put this together we get this:
Jesus = Father = Holy Spirit = Word of God = Bible = God.
Therefore:
Bible = God.
@@nezz0r That's messed up. Here is the Godhead, plain and simple. God The Father, God The Son (The Word)
God The Holy Spirit. "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)
@@christophergibson7155 Yes, did I say something different?
Me:
"Jesus = God, Father = God, Holy Spirit = God"
@@nezz0r You made it sound like the = (equal) sign for the Bible was part of the Godhead. It wasn't easily understood.
Just perfect!
You always put things together so well for anyone to understand especially mentally ill people like me or at least for me this is helpful. I always thought about how weird that was too that a murder gets to go to heaven if he excepts Jesus but if your a good person through and through to the very end of your life but didn't you go to hell. It really did sound like a unjust system especially considering how ours is on earth today, I tried using the murder here on earth example with Christians and asked them if they'd want a murderer to walk free while some innocent person paid they always answered no yet they would still argue in the end for God's justice being different because he's God and I'm like well that just doesn't sound right to me and then of course they'd pull out the you can't question God which just makes me question more, especially if the bible plays ring around the rosies (yes i used this pun for the round about but also because of the old nursery ryme to it, it's not as pretty as it sounds), it just kept providing me with nothing but more questions and they tell you to seek god even if that's to question his morals then they tell you not to and if you hear something outside they tell you not to believe that person (which is as fair as not trusting everything you you read on the Internet either so fair point but...) Then if I can't question then I can't find God and then you tell me he's in the Bible and I'm like omg dudes make up your freaking minds! You also say he's everywhere so why do I have to come to a church everyday and read the same book I do every Sunday every day when churches are meant for learning and praising if you want to do that more that's on you but I never understood why they were so clickish about it like no you have to do this like your life depended on it wait...............................................................nope I'm still here. It seriously got as tiring as my hypocritical parents, which I'm sure a lot of us have been here as well, I remember my alcoholic drug addict biological mother would tell me to do something or that something was wrong but she'd do it herself anyways and when I'd point it out i got reprimanded for it and back then we got spankings. 😢 I even have parents tell me today if you were a parent you'd understand way before they even know if I was or wasn't (course lucky guess they were actually right this time however...) I did actually do a lot of childcare stuff growing up and even if I didn't that is still such a pathetic excuse to me considering my biological parents abandoned me multiple times, even when they were there they would neglect me and most of the time my biological mother was almost always with some major abusive prick which luckily from as far as I can remember none of them ever hurt me but still you get my point, not every parent is qualified to be a parent even for those who have birthed one and some adopters even who have closed adoptions and who have never been parents or birthed a baby before and is adopting a completely different person from themselves but is a way better mom than the possible one that gave them possibly up, so the whole if this you would understand is bs and that's even with anything I'm RSS and you think i still understand everything mental health even my own no I still come across things. I have also figured out a kid's problem with her mother once about pushing her kid into dance when the kid just wanted to be a freaking kid and play with her Tinkerbell Dolls, the mom was not grateful but it's funny because my big sis at the time actually stood up for me and told her if her daughter told me a complete stranger about all this then maybe she should listen more closely and respect her daughters wishes too especially if it isn't harming anything. I mean my adoptive mom yeah took me a lot of places and we explored many different things but we did it together as a team and she respected my wishes of which activities I wanted to do which were pretty healthy for a kid like rock climbing (don't worry this was at rocks and ropes supervised) anyways these are just some examples. That's why I hate hearing if you were a parent you'd understand because it seems like I understand a lot more than they did or do half the time and at least I'm willing to speak up if I feel something is wrong and man up to my own mistakes as well. I'm not perfect and I don't pretend to ever be and I hate people assuming it of me or even worse expecting it. Too many redundant hypocrisies and as you can tell I've had a lot of that already in my life without the bible and the church so I don't need more of it. I respect those within that community and belief system but I no longer believe in the Christianity view either.
Jesus paid for our sins but Not in the way the church teaches. Without the crucification He would have been forgotten and with him His Moral Message. So He paid a price to our sinfull Nature but Not to God. Hope that helps and get Well!
Hey I’m a devout Christian and I’m thankful for your videos. I’m going to use them in my church to teach people about Gods justice and how to logically think through our position and what you’re saying.
Ah Here IS another Christian WHO watches Atheists Videos to improve His bible exegesis. Welcome Brother, May God Bless you!
If I live a sinless life, but don't believe, where am I going when I die? Love the content btw.
Some people say they believe with their lips but actually don't believe with their heart, and others are the opposite. God cares about what we DO. Not what we SAY we do. The Bible is very clear on this. In many places God rejects the sacrifices of the Israelites because he knows they are not genuine. The Bible is MOSTLY about the Israelites abandoning God despite all he did to prosper them. That's probably at least 75% of Biblical content. Most people don't know that because they haven't read what's in there.
@@theboombody How is that an answer to the question? Did you even read the question? Why not answer the question, and not what you want someone to ask?
Good question. God's word speaks to this. In 1 John 1:10 it says, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." In other words this is saying, if you say you don't sin you are a liar and therefore you are sinning by just saying that you don't sin. So your hypothetical question could never truly happen. Hope this helps. Pluss God's word clearly states; that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23. This is why we need to repent and put our hope and faith in Jesus Christ as our only means of salvation. He is our only hope.
I pity those who think they are sinners. There is no reason for a hell. They created hell for themselves.
We were designed to sin, to err. What did He expect?
Even Eve's very senses helped to lead her that way.
And in the book of Job - how did, Satan, come 'to the Father', and did Jesus, aid him?
Also, when a major, arch angel is designed, and suddenly ends up unhappy, but also with enormous, delusional, and suicidal pride... was this a 'missing the mark' or 'erring' or not?
Even, at the design, level - or of long, term, intent?
How many beings can... sin... or miss, the mark?
Lastly, who is, our means, of default jeopardy.@@brockburlando702
Add to that the doctrine of predestination expressed in the book of Romans. According to the doctrine of predestination, “one can’t even choose to accept grace.” “It’s a gift from God,” and one has to “be chosen by God.”
I really am the foretold end time Elijah as the world will soon see undoubtedly and I fully support this blessing
New Kristi videoo!
When I die I don't want grace I don't want forgiveness I want justice I don't want to be elevated into some place because I bowed down to some God I want perfect understanding of who and what I am and how I can grow to be a better person
You don't want to bow down? Who are you to be so egotistical? Bowing down and being humble enough to admit your mistakes is HOW TO BECOME A BETTER PERSON!
Fantastic description of deconstruction.
I really appreciate that you actually thought about some of the things you believe and have the bravery to question your faith and why you believed what you did. Take your video on Noah's Ark for example. I often wanted to ask God "How's it workin' for ya?"
You would be absolutely brilliant on atheist phone-in shows. I watch quite a few on UA-cam e.g. Talk Heathen and The Atheist Experience. Forrest Valkai is my favourite presenter. I could imagine you co-hosting with him. That would be a formidable partnership.
It's a different skill from videos which can be edited, but I agree it seems as if she'd be good at that too.
@@Isaac-hm6ih yeah, she's as shallow as them, why not? 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2blockthat’s a huge reach. Just because energy winds down doesn’t mean someone created it. How do u even know a WHO even created anything?
@@2fast2blockShut up troll
The concept of sin, eternal torture and eternal bliss is the worst justice system humans have ever invented.
You just explained the bible. Mans justice.
@Etothe2iPi _"eternal bliss is the worst justice system humans have ever invented. "_
In Islam, eternal punishment only for sin of shirk however for every other sins, which sinner did not seek forgiveness from God, can be subject to a short time in hell.
For the sin of shirk is directed to the Infinite Being, therefore punishment's is eternal.
AS a gnostic Christian I agree. I Just wonder how to exorcise this Idea Out of Christianity without destroying IT.
The way I see it, God couldn't be bothered about how we interact with Him after all there's probably nothing we can do for Him (i.e. He doesn't need us). But how we humans interact with other life forms may be ALL that matters.🤷
Can justice and grace coexist. What a good question!
Love is forgiveness and acceptance but God isn't.
Why does God insist that I forgive, without ANY retribution of any sort, those who sin against me, all the while not forgiving those who sin against him unless SOMEBODY is the target of his wrath?
That seems more than a little bit hypocritical on God's part, no?
Grace has also been defined as 'God's life in us." There's a promise by God in the OT (you can look it up). "A bruised reed I shall not break. A smoldering wick I shall not quench." It seems to imply that if we have even the smallest bit of God's life in us, God will fan it back into a flame. That's mercy. If we want it.
You are such a great communicator. Did you go to seminary to sort all this stuff out? Where did you come by your common sense insights?
There's the parable about the laborers in the vineyard. Some came early, worked a full day, and were paid a full day's wage. Others came much later, worked much less, and were paid the same as those who worked all day. The early-comers naturally rebelled because those who worked less were paid the same. The parable illustrates the balance between the justice of God and his mercy. It seems to imply that the worst sinners might receive the same mercy as saints. Saint Isaac of Syria said that, "When compared with the great mercy of God, our sins are like a handful of sand thrown into the ocean."
There's a term for offering to spare someone from a threat YOU made to them on the condition you do whatever they say:
EXTORTION
Your analogy is not correct. Because of free will, sin entered. The bible makes that CLEAR. God made a way out still, salvation by His son, Jesus Christ. You refuse it so you'll lie about the situation. Then lie. You show what you are.
@@2fast2block If Adam and Eve didn't know right from wrong before they ate the fruit, how could they possibly have known that disobeying Yahweh was wrong?
@@inkpenavengerYT you just love lying. God told them NOT to and what would happen if they disobeyed. They listened to Satan rather than God. Stop pretending you know the bible and just be like Kristi who pretends also.
@@2fast2block
Maybe they didn't want to be immortal. Doesn't mean that they were doing something wrong. Besides, the snake was created by god, so god tricked them. I believe Kristi has a video about that.
@@2fast2block If you have a black and white view of people and call all nonChristians liars and these horrible people, that is not true, and an easy way for you to deal with life, but it's delusion. People don't leave because they want to sin either, people love that one.
Eye for a eye and a tooth for a tooth, equal Justice, Unfortunately our imaginary friend doesn't practice what he preaches. Justin Porter ex jw ❤️
No that's a lie from an old god who is angry and kills babies and sacrifice animals
Good try Justin
@Abdullah I had to let go of my imaginary friend, because he kept on threatening me and I don't like bullies. Justin Porter ex jw ❤️
I've often heard the analogy of the courtroom from some of the more famous apologists, about a person who committed some minor mostly-harmless crime, and owed a fine, and the judge says "actually I'll let you off the hook if [insert favorite metaphor for salvation here]", and my thought has always been to take that same mentality and scale it up. What of a murderer who was offered that same very literal get-out-of-jail-free option? Do you really want such a person to receive no punishment and be let back out onto the streets where they might harm even more people? After all, they now know they won't get in trouble for it, so what's there to convince them not to?
Hearing you jump straight to this version of the analogy, and THEN say that old-believer-you had thought this was a good argument FOR salvation, gave me a fit of whiplash. I hear what believers say, and I try to understand them, and I thought I about had it down at this point, but I guess on some level I still can't fully grasp the sheer depths of moral depravity that these religions inflict on otherwise loving and understanding people. I am so glad you found your way out of that and have noticed how twisted this supposed "justice" truly is. Thank you for helping others in similar situations to understand it, too.
I was always told never question anything that the Bible says and I think when people say that it's because they themselves don't know the answer either. I could never wrap my head around how a God could be so loving and then and you're told if you don't follow every single rule you're going to hell that never made sense to me. I feel you've explained it perfectly
Let’s go one step further. The innocent person that is taking the punishment for the guilty isn’t even serving the full sentence. He only served what three days? So again, where is the justice?
The bible made it CLEAR. You ask silly questions not showing any effort to get answers.
@@2fast2block Then tell us how it could be just that Jesus only served three days of punishment and not all of eternity if you know so much more about this then us.
@@Dragumix where in the bible does it say that the 3 days Jesus was dead served as the punishment? That is the claim that is made so show how you can back it up.
@@2fast2block The teaching "Jesus took our punishment" is widespread (I and many others had been taught this) and can be found all over the internet (I tried to cite a website, but the comment got blocked by UA-cam). I think it's not found explicitly in the Bible. But verses like Isaiah 53:5
"But He was wounded[k] for our transgressions,
He was [l]bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes[m] we are healed."
get interpreted by many Christians to mean that Jesus took the punishment for humankind (or at least for the chosen ones).
If Jesus didn't take the punishment for humankind (at least for the chosen ones) then what was the purpose of Jesus crucifixion and death and being cut off from God the father until Easter Sunday in your opinion?
@@Dragumix you could NOT give anything to back up what you wrote..."that Jesus only served three days of punishment." What you gave had nothing to do with how Jesus paid the price for our sins. Just admit, you got it wrong.
Literally doing gods work everyday 😂
Which god? I think she's doing GOOD work, rather than the kind of work the bible depicts its god doing.
@@Isaac-hm6ih just sarcasm man may the flying spaghetti monster be with you r'amen
@@fcjey Ok, I can be bad at reading sarcasm even in person.
"R'amen" is awesome. I hadn't heard it before, despite being vaguely familiar with our invisible, beige-tendrilled, overlord.
@@Isaac-hm6ih who or what created the universe to you? 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block LIAR here is the REAL LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS - everything you say is a LIE!
First law of thermodynamics: When energy moves into or out of a system, the system’s internal energy changes in accordance with the law of conservation of mass.
Second law of thermodynamics: The state of the entropy of the entire universe, as an isolated system, will always increase over time.
Third law of thermodynamics: Entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero is zero.
Concisely and accessibly put, on top of being entirely non-confrontational. This is pretty much a perfect resource for those deconstructing.
I have to say, analogies regarding salvation seem to have evolved over time. In the Bible, it's all about blood sacrifice - Hebrews is particularly obsessed with it - insisting the nothing can be forgiven without blood, which raises the question of why Jesus was able to forgive the sins of the paralysed man before any crucifixion took place. The murderer on trial analogy you raised was interesting, because the variant I'm used to hearing is Jesus paying a fine for you. The people who put that variant around seem to instinctively understand, in spite of the idea of 'all have sinned and fallen short...' that certain punishments being waived are going to be more palatable than others. Murderers or spree killers I find are more likely to be used in analogies of justice rather than grace. Of course, given Jesus' payment has supposedly already been made, the situation is more like, as some people have put it, same punishment for literally everything, except the judge lets you off if you're friends with his kid.
Great job showing how shallow you are like Kristi.
AS a Gnostic I agree especially to the selective use of strong versus weak crimes.
What happened to the people who died before Christ if salvation is only through Christ and you died before him how are you saved? Christians say you will be judged by your actions because Christ did not come yet but yet how could that be if the only way is through the belief in Christ? What happens to children when they die? Christians say there is an age of accountability yet no where in the Bible does it say that. What happens to Jews who worship God but yet do not believe in Jesus? I have had Christians tell me that there is a exemption for Jews. Perfect justice has exemptions? Could it be that Heaven and hell are places of the mind and not physical places at all?
If God is just and justice why my cheater wife blessed and happy with her man? Why is He so unfair?
Dude what goes around comes around mate .karma will do its job .
When you realize and accept that religion was created by men, for men, everything starts to make more sense. History for one.
It is very important to tackle the issue of hell and to respond to the all too common apologist argument that people are not cast into hell but they sentence themselves to hell because they reject Christ. The doors are locked on the inside. C S Lewis makes particular use of this in the problem of pain and many other preachers and Christians have followed his example. This argument really disturbed me and I found myself in a double bind. One of the main reasons why I rejected God and Jesus was I thought hell was an unjust and an utterly pointless punishment. But part of me was terrified I would go to hell because I rejected Jesus because of the doctrine of hell. I suspect many people get knotted up in this very painful and traumatic dilema. I now think the "People sentence themselves to hell" argument is both very very manipulative and is also ill founded and rotten. The whole thing assumes four premises (1) The evidence that God exists as a loving God and that Jesus exists as a loving God man is absolutely overwhelming. (2) The "good news" about God and Jesus is equally available to every human who has ever lived (3) It is equally easy for everyone to accept God and Jesus - after all if it was much harder for some people because of circumstances out of their control that would be chronically unfair (4) It is blindingly clear and obvious who has accepted God and who has not (bearing in mind many Christians make a big thing of asking Jesus to enter their lives but then will keep certain rooms of their "house" locked against him (or what they think is him) because they are so frightened and ashamed of what is going on there. Meanwhile many who find it hard to accept a father God because of abuse they suffered from a parent at an early age may not be perfect but spend more of their life going out of their way to support and help others - far more so than many Christians who go to church and have said the sinners prayer and asked Jesus into their lives (and may drive to church in a BMW) . So this argument that people choose to go to hell crashes to the floor and breaks up (because all four premises it is based on are simply not true) And what happens to children who are still born and very young children and very vulnerable adults amidst all this? The question "what do you expect Jesus to do with those who reject him" is a false and manipulative question in the same way as "are you still hitting your wife" can be a false and manipulative question (if the person may have their faults but is not a wife beater) I think Kristi you and other really good desconstructionists need to address this question full on. It causes such anxiety and misery.
If a God WHO IS Not allpowerfull wants to Safe you, you might Trust and follow him when Things get tight. This IS Like following the commands of a firefighter in an emergency Situation. However for this Argument to Work Mainstream Christianity Has to finally dump allpowerfullness. I will throw a big Party when that Happens :)
The immediate question after the surface level description of justice and grace served, would be the following: does it mean that any Christian gets by with anything they do to anyone due to Jesus's sacrifice? If not, grace is not served. If yes, justice is not served, and any repentance and moral virtue is irrelevant, so why even try?
It is great of you to lay those two parts out as plainly as you did, because it pinpoints glaring hole in the structure of concepts both of justice and salvation.
Imagine being in heaven next to someone who murdered several children in a school because he was lucky enough to utter the magic words to god before getting shot by the cops.
The Bible does not imply that. In fact Matthew 7:21 says that ain't going to fly.
@@theboombody Didn't it apply to the thief on the cross?
I would Not think that this alone will do IT. If that's going to Work at all after death you have to Put beaf to the Magic words. You Said you Trust God - you will have to Trust God and voluntarily follow him through a rather painfull soulcleaning voluntarily. This IS Just my best guess.
@@peterjp4Based on Reading the thiefes Soul, He was propably able to guess how quickly He can get him through the Soul cleansing.
God created us in a way that made us incapable of sinlessness. He then wants adoration for saving us from the sins that we were incapable of not committing. It reminds me of an episode of M.A.S.H. where Hawkeye had a flashback to childhood, remembering when an older boy pushed him out of a boat into the water, knowing Hawkeye couldn't swim. The older boy eventually pulled Hawkeye out of the water, and expected gratitude for "rescuing" him...
Incorrect. Everyone is responsible before God themselves for the breaking of His moral law-the 10 commandments. God is Holy. God hates sin. The New Testament is clear. "you are dead in your sins and trespasses" A dead person is incapable of doing anything for themselves. That is why Jesus Christ alone is the Savior. He is the only once who can rescue you from your enslavement to sin. Jesus alone can forgive and cleanse from sin. He is ever so faithful !
@@christophergibson7155 you say I'm incorrect. So you think we're capable of sinlessness, and Christianity is wrong?
The atonement narrative makes no sense to me. Seems as mythical as any other story from any number of ancient books. And none of them.have any validation mechanism beyond "Have faith! Just believe!"
@@dennisbowden3985 God Himself made "atonement" for you. We are all born with a sinful nature which came through Adam. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned." (Romans 5:12) We all are moral law breakers of God's 10 commandments. And because God is Holy, Righteous, and Just, He must judge transgressors of the law.
Jesus Christ came in the fullness of time to take the punishment for our crimes against God. In the Old Testament animal blood sacrifice only covered the sins of the people of Israel. Jesus now has taken away the guilt and shame of sin. He also broke the curse of sin by the shedding of His blood once and for all. Jesus did it all. Now we can come and be totally reconciled to God through repentance, and receiving His gift of eternal life. By totally trusting Jesus to save you. "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
@@christophergibson7155 There was no ‘Adam’, we evolved gradually from primates over hundreds of thousands of years.
@@curbroadshow Evolution is a lie. There have been absolutely no transitional species ever found. And there never will be. God in His wisdom created man and woman, in His own image and likeness (Genesis 1:26)
I just discovered your content and it is fantastic!
I have come out of Mormonism that has a little different take on the concept of divine justice. Mormonism posits that there are laws that god is subject to (and is thus not fit with the multi omni's) and for god to keep being god he is bound by these laws otherwise 'nature' would rebel. So, Jesus task was to fulfill the demands of justice so god could extend mercy. It still doesn't make sense when you really stop to think about it. In trying to solve some of the problems of Christianity, Mormonism creates lots of others.
Whether it is Evangelical Christianity or Mormonism's brand of Christianity the fact remains that punishing an innocent being for the 'crimes' of another is absolutely unjust. Just think about how we recoil when we learn of a person that has been falsely imprisoned.
Perhaps the workaround that a Christian can posit is that Jesus did it willingly, but that still doesn't make it just.
Great content, Kristi. I never understood the God system of justice. You could literally be the worst person in the history of the world, but if you accept Jesus, you're accepted into heaven. Riiight.
Let's say if you are God. What do you think is the right answer to that scenario that you said about the worst person in the history of the world?
When you look at disparity of wealth now, and God is all powerful, you can't say God is just.
Sounds like you have a problem with the way reality is constructed. I do too. But I know that science can't fix it because all science does is describe and manipulate reality. True science NEVER describes the way reality should actually be. That's just scientific dogma that does that. Only religion and philosophy describe how things should be. Not science. Now you just need to explore what religion or philosophy properly describes the way reality should be.
You have no understanding of Christianity.
I like your way of thinking sister
She doesn't think much. 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block
_Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point._
That's a non sequitur. She also doesn't pretend to be an astrophysicist, so her not providing an answer to the implied question says nothing about her thinking.
@@avishevin1976 not just common sense tells us creation can't happen on its own, so does BASIC science. Neither of you can face it so you run from it.
@@2fast2block
"I don't understand therefore god" isn't an argument. It's a statement of belief. It's not a logical position. It's a statement of belief.
@@avishevin1976 if you were honest, which you're clearly not, I gave what we do understand and you just continue to ignore it.
Wait, you mean morality and justice are more complicated than a Jack Chick tract⁉️ 😉
Keep up the great work 🙂
Tell of her "great work" starting in verse one about God creating. What's her "great work" in how the universe created itself?
@@2fast2block 😆😅😂🤣😭
Oh wait, you're serious? Let me laugh harder 😆😅😂🤣😭💀⚰️🥀👻
Is it Thor or Zeus/Jupiter that causes lightning? ⚡
Morality and justice are so complicated that we don't have quantifiable standard units for them. That's why they are outside the realms of scientific pursuit.
@@AnnoyingNewsletters just say you and Kristi can't get past verse one, but since you can't, laughing is your way of escaping reality.
@@2fast2block The first verse in the bible is in Genesis, and that entire book is nonsense.
You don’t always get what you deserve, that’s just life lol
Lol that's definitely gna fly over her head 😹😹😹
This is a great question and I've also pondered it myself. I think it's justice because the person against whom the offense was committed (God), willingly chose to pay the debt themselves. It's like if you owed a huge mortgage to Bank of America, and then the President/CEO of Bank of America decides to liquidate their own assets in order to pay off your mortgage. That's why it's called forgiveness. It came at a cost to the creditor (sacrifice), it was an underserved gift to the debtor (grace), and in the end accounts were balanced (justice).
A lot of people have been severely hurt within "Christian" circles and that is extremely tragic. There are a lot of scammers, hypocrites, phonies, sociopaths, etc, who infiltrate communities of faith and cause tons of damage. The New Testament explains that this was an ongoing problem back then, and would continue to be. Jesus was a Jewish teacher who was crucified although he did nothing to deserve it. Read the the Roman historian Josephus if you want sources other than the Bible. It's also a historical consensus that after Jesus was crucified, his body went missing and his disciples began proclaiming his resurrection.
They were willing to die all sorts of gruesome deaths, rather than deny. The earliest Christians had no earthly incentive whatsoever to claim that Jesus had risen from the dead. On the contrary, they were severely persecuted and had every earthly incentive to deny that it happened. There are plenty of great resources out there. Obviously, if there are two contradicting narratives, only one of them can be true. Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John Lennox is Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University. ua-cam.com/video/teLr3xIwSvY/v-deo.html
Most sin are against other people though.
There is no substitutionary atonement in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. God does not send us to heaven or hell. We choose to be with God or not to be with Him. Do we desire God in our hearts or are we indifferent in our unbelief? It is as simple as that. Every time you choose God or show love toward your neighbors, He pours more love into your heart. God judges our hearts based on how much love it contains. When we die, He looks to see how much love our heart expresses toward Him. Do we want to be with Him eternally or not? It is always our choice.
Justice is built into the system indirectly. When we sin, we act without love. As human beings we need love. When we act without love, we are starving ourselves of love and therefore we suffer. On the other hand, God rewards us by pouring more love into our hearts every time we express love toward Him or toward our neighbors. When we sin, some of that love leaks out. If we continue sinning, our heart may run out of love completely and fall into despair or hatred.
Christianity is not about ideologies. Christianity is about Christ Himself, who chose to die on the cross in order to reconcile us to Himself by destroying death. There is no more Hades, only eternity with or without God depending on what we choose.
Aka heaven or hell. Nice you tried to butter it up n still force the view
Actually, the world works just fine *without the assumption of a god.*
@@davidfitnesstech An opinion mostly shared by people who aren’t starving to death.
God: please share so that no one is hungry.
People:
First of all: “no thank you”
Second of all: you must be a bad God for allowing people to suffer.
I'm a life-long atheist, but my primary concern on religion is The Bill of Rights, Article One: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof." This first amendment to the Bill of Rights established that we have freedom of religion and that our government is secular in nature. As long religionists respects that we are OK. But if they try to force their religion on others or attempt to impose a theocracy on the U.S. then we have a big problem. Such people will have to be taught theocracy has no place in the U.S.A.
This topic is fascinating! It raises a lot of questions. Who did Jesus die for? The guilty or the innocent?