As an introvert, I can say games give a good structure for social interactions, within the context of a structured game. (not talking for all introverts, tho.) For introverts, the "open-ended" nature of large crowds, "mingling" and "small-talk" can be intimidating. But a smaller group setting, having a structure like a game, that is something that is more manageable and even a lot of fun, and engages the mind and imagination, etc. of the introvert type. Games of all types and genres.
chemistry's off the charts guys. thanks for this one, a really unique list and lots of insight, and your easygoing ribbing w each other makes it gold. hope to see you at next year's UK expo.
Perhaps he does this all the time and I've never noticed it, but the number of times Sam says "AND" with exceptional emphasis during the explanation and discussion for his #8 is kinda humorous. :-)
Zee's point about seeing how other people play games when he's talking about Sheriff of Nottingham is something I've found is also true with hidden role games like Resistance, Avalon, and Secret Hitler: different groups have preconceived notions of how those games are "supposed" to be played and get a little rattled when someone does something they would never do. I was at a table of Resistance where everyone said that you should never fail the first mission. So I did. They didn't know how to play the game anymore.
This Dice Tower Con was my first con ever, and I loved it!!! I got to play TI3 there, and that is my number one convention game. I had never played it before, and it took the whole day, but I had sooooooo much fun. I cant wait to be able to play again! But I will probably have to wait till the next Dice Tower Con.
When I was in the army, my group of friends played Diplomacy in the Rec Center all the time and we never found it boring at all. We all tried to never lie when we made deals, we were just so creative in twisting the truth that it was a blast to see someone back stab someone else without actually lying to their face. And it definitely was NOT boring. But to each their own.
9:55 - "the stuff you're doing in it isn't so mean..." Zee has not played this with my wife. After 3 rounds of our youngest daughter (10 years old) packing contraband and only paying a few coins, my wife was the sheriff. As soon as we all declared (including our youngest claiming "5 apples"), my wife immediately grabbed the 10-year-old's bag, and snapped it open - no negotiating, no asking for a bribe, no NOTHING! Just *snap*, the look of shock on my face and the crestfallen look on the 10-year-old's face, followed by my wife tallying up the fine of 20 coins! Brutal!
Hey Sam, Glad BSG was on the list was fun playing with you and Roy and everyone else that was at the game. Maybe a game on the cruise can be arranged as well.
Not a big attender of conventions, but a lot of the reasons given for these games can be relevant for groups new to gaming. Thanks for putting this one up, good discussions.
Great list guys. I personally do prefer Sam and Zee's picks just because I don't think that all convention games need to be 12 person party games. However, I have had good times playing most of these 30'ish games.
Yeah, games where it is a hard time to get a group of passionate, experienced players, and especially if the game calls for a certain player count or long playtime. Dune and Diplomacy come to mind. Getting exactly six players who are really into the Dune theme and know the game well is one of the best experiences you can have in a game.
McGartlin Motorsports (officially "Stock Car Championship Racing") is THE convention game for me. Big cars, big tracks, big player counts, never disappoints (unless you're playing a 16 player 200 lap game, then it's literally hell).
Though the mechanics are only okay and the theme is mildly disturbing, Two Rooms and a Boom is really fun at conventions. You can have 30+ players and actually use 2 separate rooms.
#1 category are (historical) miniature wargames, especially rank and file. Nothing like the spectacle of a giant beautiful table to represent a multiplayer setpiece battle.
I tend not to trust people who can't have fun with a game like Werewolf. Yes, it's a game that requires player-input and with a bad group it's not very fun, but with the right group it's amazing. Some of the best boardgame experiences I've had. I understand the issues with it, I actually prefer One Night nowadays, but whenever someone doesn't understand why Werewolf is or can be fun, part of the problem is probably themselves a little bit too.
I feel like people can like different games and still be likable. I am a horrible liar. My mind goes blank, I stutter and I claim to be characters who aren't even in the game. It's the most nerve-wracking experience of my life. That and I really don't like that you could be wrong about your own role. That's why I like games like Deception or Salem. You always know if you are a good or a bad guy, and never have to bald-face lie to anyone.
Brandon you're right, I should probably rephrase my earlier statement to: "If you don't like Werewolf, you're probably not the kind of player I want to play Werewolves with". It's nothing personal against the player him or herself and I guess you could say the same thing with any game, though I feel with Werewolf it tends to be more true since the game only becomes fun with "fun people". That last part is highly subjective of course.
Video quality looks amazing! Love the background, but doesn't feel very board 'gamey' maybe set up a dice tower in the background or a couple games sitting there.
Hey guys, I think Diamant would be a great game to play at conventions. It's super easy to learn, up to ten players, invokes discussion, but most importantly the person who's last and keeps going to get that extra 7-8 gems always gets the cheers when I play at parties.
I’m going to my first convention in March! I don’t even have a game group at home. I pretty much play 2 player games with her, which I love, but she doesn’t like anything too heavy or nerdy. I’ve never played Blood Rage, Rising Sun, Dead of Winter, or even Resistance. I’m hoping to get to play these and more when I go.
My convention thing is playing longer games I have a hard time playing otherwise (1830, Titan, Third Reich). I have a friend who is a World in Flames aficianado who made that his convention to do. I have never gotten to play the social type games at a convention. Probably my loss. Guess I need to work on that.
Great list, although I disagree that Times Up is the best version of the game. Monikers has a funnier selection of names, witty descriptions on the cards and a fantastic production.
It's hard to explain. But it's where dozens of people kind of roleplay and interact. Ok yeah I'm not explains it well. Find the Dice Tower video "Let's Watch a Mega Game" where The World Turned Upside Down is played at a convention.
coyotemoon722 That seems to be the beginning of a point. I assume he was going to say that he makes that inference with his normal group, but it may not be true with strangers at a convention.
Sam here...you guys got it right. That's the interesting dynamic of playing SoC at a convention...some of those assumptions you make in your regular gaming group after having played it so many times together aren't necessarily true anymore. So, sometimes, it's almost like experiencing the game all over again, without the growing pains of having to learn the rules.
Not too bad a video, but I wish Tom would ease off on reacting negatively to the Zee and Sam picks. It bloats up the playtime, and it makes the videos more adversarial than they need to be.
I don't get the "long games are great for conventions" train of thought. If a game is longer than an hour there is no way I want to waste my precious convention time playing a single game. There is only so much time to see everything you can. Am I alone with this?
For me, part of it is being able to jump into it very quickly, and with a group of people that already know how to play. Longer games hit my table a lot less frequently, so the chances of people being new or rusty is so much higher. In a convention setting, you won't have players who are learning the rules and slowing the game down, or who are not as well versed about strategy and are making (sometimes very) sub-optimal decisions. That said - if your gaming group is happy and willing to play those longer games regularly enough, then spending that time at a convention is probably not worth it.
I know exactly why Sam stayed away from MegaGames, in the political climate we live today i know it is a walking on eggs type of situation and that does not make for good gameplay, that's why we have more fun being confined to the little fantasy words of the board games we play. I won't cite names but there is a perfect example of that here on youtube where you see a big political megagame x-com style with lots of old and young people and you expect the folks just want to have a good time with a good old alien invasion... Cue the alien faction which was composed of some of the organizers having the first encounter with the human race, from a back door emerges a skinny white colored hair girl who was supposed to be the alien ambassador to tell that the alien mission is to bring refugees to the earth... yeah, right, honestly i would have just turned my back packed my stuff and walked away. What really happened is that everyone in the game tiptoed around really role-playing an x-com like game because you were basically being judged on you character by a lot of people you don't know because you are stuck with this shitty political bait theme by people who thought it was a good idea to transform this social role-playing interaction into a drill selection and outing of different thought on current issues. What a load of crap and as always Sam Healey the Wise.
As an introvert, I can say games give a good structure for social interactions, within the context of a structured game. (not talking for all introverts, tho.) For introverts, the "open-ended" nature of large crowds, "mingling" and "small-talk" can be intimidating. But a smaller group setting, having a structure like a game, that is something that is more manageable and even a lot of fun, and engages the mind and imagination, etc. of the introvert type. Games of all types and genres.
chemistry's off the charts guys. thanks for this one, a really unique list and lots of insight, and your easygoing ribbing w each other makes it gold. hope to see you at next year's UK expo.
This backdrop is by far the best backdrop you guys have had. Love the shelves, but this is top tier.
Not so much a backdrop as it is a backyard. :)
Not the first time they have used it either. :D
They need to trim that damn palm tree though!
Conventions are the place where player elimination doesn't matter NEARLY as much because the person can easily find another game to play.
Finding out that Zee was the traitor at the end of that Megagame was the least surprising twist of all time yet it actually fooled LITERALLY everyone.
If I got a dollar everytime tom said "thats actually my number 11"...
You'd have $20, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened 20 times.
Next up: "Top 10 Games That Were Tom's Number 11"
Hey! The lighting and sound quality (soundscape) was really awesome for this vid. It looks way more professional and high quality.
Love these top tens. Times up would be my number one.
Perhaps he does this all the time and I've never noticed it, but the number of times Sam says "AND" with exceptional emphasis during the explanation and discussion for his #8 is kinda humorous. :-)
Zee's point about seeing how other people play games when he's talking about Sheriff of Nottingham is something I've found is also true with hidden role games like Resistance, Avalon, and Secret Hitler: different groups have preconceived notions of how those games are "supposed" to be played and get a little rattled when someone does something they would never do. I was at a table of Resistance where everyone said that you should never fail the first mission. So I did. They didn't know how to play the game anymore.
I miss this backdrop! It was a good one.
So Tom drives around in a van offering people candy, then takes them to his place and forces them to play games.
This Dice Tower Con was my first con ever, and I loved it!!! I got to play TI3 there, and that is my number one convention game. I had never played it before, and it took the whole day, but I had sooooooo much fun. I cant wait to be able to play again! But I will probably have to wait till the next Dice Tower Con.
When I was in the army, my group of friends played Diplomacy in the Rec Center all the time and we never found it boring at all. We all tried to never lie when we made deals, we were just so creative in twisting the truth that it was a blast to see someone back stab someone else without actually lying to their face. And it definitely was NOT boring. But to each their own.
9:55 - "the stuff you're doing in it isn't so mean..."
Zee has not played this with my wife. After 3 rounds of our youngest daughter (10 years old) packing contraband and only paying a few coins, my wife was the sheriff. As soon as we all declared (including our youngest claiming "5 apples"), my wife immediately grabbed the 10-year-old's bag, and snapped it open - no negotiating, no asking for a bribe, no NOTHING! Just *snap*, the look of shock on my face and the crestfallen look on the 10-year-old's face, followed by my wife tallying up the fine of 20 coins!
Brutal!
Hey Sam, Glad BSG was on the list was fun playing with you and Roy and everyone else that was at the game. Maybe a game on the cruise can be arranged as well.
Not a big attender of conventions, but a lot of the reasons given for these games can be relevant for groups new to gaming. Thanks for putting this one up, good discussions.
It will be great to see this list again just in time for conventions to pick up
Great list guys. I personally do prefer Sam and Zee's picks just because I don't think that all convention games need to be 12 person party games. However, I have had good times playing most of these 30'ish games.
Top 10 dungeon crawls / quest adventure games? We ( I mean I) need this list!
Yeah, games where it is a hard time to get a group of passionate, experienced players, and especially if the game calls for a certain player count or long playtime. Dune and Diplomacy come to mind. Getting exactly six players who are really into the Dune theme and know the game well is one of the best experiences you can have in a game.
McGartlin Motorsports (officially "Stock Car Championship Racing") is THE convention game for me. Big cars, big tracks, big player counts, never disappoints (unless you're playing a 16 player 200 lap game, then it's literally hell).
Two Rooms and a Boom?
You should do a top 10 game currencies
Really like the top ten setting and the subtle bird sounds in the background.
Though the mechanics are only okay and the theme is mildly disturbing, Two Rooms and a Boom is really fun at conventions. You can have 30+ players and actually use 2 separate rooms.
#1 category are (historical) miniature wargames, especially rank and file. Nothing like the spectacle of a giant beautiful table to represent a multiplayer setpiece battle.
I second Sam's opinions about Werewolf. I can't stand that game. "Go home and rethink your life." Haha.
its especially worse when you're targeted and out early,having to sit out for a long time.
I tend not to trust people who can't have fun with a game like Werewolf. Yes, it's a game that requires player-input and with a bad group it's not very fun, but with the right group it's amazing. Some of the best boardgame experiences I've had.
I understand the issues with it, I actually prefer One Night nowadays, but whenever someone doesn't understand why Werewolf is or can be fun, part of the problem is probably themselves a little bit too.
I feel like people can like different games and still be likable. I am a horrible liar. My mind goes blank, I stutter and I claim to be characters who aren't even in the game. It's the most nerve-wracking experience of my life. That and I really don't like that you could be wrong about your own role. That's why I like games like Deception or Salem. You always know if you are a good or a bad guy, and never have to bald-face lie to anyone.
Deception is so awesome because you're not really accusing the person as much as accusing the evidence. One of our favorites!
Brandon you're right, I should probably rephrase my earlier statement to: "If you don't like Werewolf, you're probably not the kind of player I want to play Werewolves with".
It's nothing personal against the player him or herself and I guess you could say the same thing with any game, though I feel with Werewolf it tends to be more true since the game only becomes fun with "fun people". That last part is highly subjective of course.
I love that Ultimate WarriorZ was mentioned. I bought this at a DTC yeaaars ago and I’ve taken to every con I’ve been to since.
Video quality looks amazing! Love the background, but doesn't feel very board 'gamey' maybe set up a dice tower in the background or a couple games sitting there.
Best convention games: long wargames
Hey guys, I think Diamant would be a great game to play at conventions. It's super easy to learn, up to ten players, invokes discussion, but most importantly the person who's last and keeps going to get that extra 7-8 gems always gets the cheers when I play at parties.
I’m going to my first convention in March! I don’t even have a game group at home. I pretty much play 2 player games with her, which I love, but she doesn’t like anything too heavy or nerdy. I’ve never played Blood Rage, Rising Sun, Dead of Winter, or even Resistance. I’m hoping to get to play these and more when I go.
Zee - Your goal as Traitor was to make the game shorter and it lasted 3 hours? Did you lose?
18:50 - HEROSCAPE - "JUST" LAVA EXPENSION !!!
Ooo, nice new setting for these videos.
I can't even joke anymore about Sam putting TI3 on a list. That expectation is way past its prime now.
Was fun playing the mega game with Zee and Tom!
My convention thing is playing longer games I have a hard time playing otherwise (1830, Titan, Third Reich). I have a friend who is a World in Flames aficianado who made that his convention to do. I have never gotten to play the social type games at a convention. Probably my loss. Guess I need to work on that.
I've started attending KublaCon and someone who attends has a custom Formula D set to play the Star Wars pod race. It's a lot of fun
StuartJ That sounds awesome
I want photos! Although, the whole point of Formula D is the gear shifting mechanic and not sure that would actually translate. Probably feels forced.
Battleon at a convention is great as I can find more players with different favorite characters to battle.
Do resistance really work with random people?
Team Judge Nasty!
Judge Nasty! Your knowledge of hair product commercials was the difference!
Great list, although I disagree that Times Up is the best version of the game. Monikers has a funnier selection of names, witty descriptions on the cards and a fantastic production.
So Sam's top half could have been the "Games we don't want play with noobs" list. Has anyone checked how much overlap there is?
Ok, so three games overlap. From that list that did *not* appear here and is of some surprise: Dead of Winter, Fury of Dracula 3rd Ed
Where is Dixit on lists?
I liked tom's number 4 wits and wagers - it is like "jeopardy" and "price is right" had a baby that works well!
I feel like Smash Up was missing for sure.
I thought you said you're never going to play BSG again, Sam?
I'd love to see a top ten 'mass market' games. Purely for entertainment purposes.
Sitting here staring at my heroscape set... Maybe I should buy a ton of random heroscape stuff.
what are some examples of mega games ?
Sepand Gousheh For an example look up the Dice Tower video "Let's Watch a Mega Game".
The game played is The World Turned Upside Down.
What do you mean by 'mega games' ?
It's hard to explain. But it's where dozens of people kind of roleplay and interact. Ok yeah I'm not explains it well. Find the Dice Tower video "Let's Watch a Mega Game" where The World Turned Upside Down is played at a convention.
Funny, I play BSG almost every other night over the internet with every expansion.
if I ever make it to a convention, I will track you down and sit for TI3, Mr. Healey. beware. ;)
Don't let them say we lost Zee! Judge nasty for the win!
Shadows Over Camelot shows up every single list LMAO
Got a Bai sponsorship now? Product Placement!!!!
You guys derailed Sam's point about SoC and Excalibur. Now I'll never know what he was going to say :'(
coyotemoon722 That seems to be the beginning of a point. I assume he was going to say that he makes that inference with his normal group, but it may not be true with strangers at a convention.
coyotemoon722 Alas, now we shall never be sure.
Sam here...you guys got it right. That's the interesting dynamic of playing SoC at a convention...some of those assumptions you make in your regular gaming group after having played it so many times together aren't necessarily true anymore. So, sometimes, it's almost like experiencing the game all over again, without the growing pains of having to learn the rules.
The Dice Tower Thanks Sam. I'll have to try it sometime. I've only played it with my gaming group.
flick em up at a convention can also be really bad....played with about 10-12 people and it was terrible.
Dice Tower should get a sponsorship from Bai :)
Bestest : Mansions of Madness
"make the game shorter" yes!
@Sam love that t-shirt
But it ain't no lie, baby, bai, bai, bai.
Cool hat, Tom.
You even have time... to finish it :D
Hmmmmm... Campaign for North Africa... followed up by some Mega Civilization? ;)
Pssh, Megagames are sweet.
There is one caveat to this video though.. :)P
Advanced Squad Leader. Twilight Struggle.
Tragedy looper, battlecon
SPI Atlantic Wall or Highway to the Reich.
celestia is a great pick
I wish they would review more games workshop boardgames, and not just chalk them up as the tabletop war games they are famous for
wildboy789789 GW makes boardgames?
Not too bad a video, but I wish Tom would ease off on reacting negatively to the Zee and Sam picks. It bloats up the playtime, and it makes the videos more adversarial than they need to be.
I don't get the "long games are great for conventions" train of thought.
If a game is longer than an hour there is no way I want to waste my precious convention time playing a single game.
There is only so much time to see everything you can.
Am I alone with this?
For me, part of it is being able to jump into it very quickly, and with a group of people that already know how to play. Longer games hit my table a lot less frequently, so the chances of people being new or rusty is so much higher. In a convention setting, you won't have players who are learning the rules and slowing the game down, or who are not as well versed about strategy and are making (sometimes very) sub-optimal decisions. That said - if your gaming group is happy and willing to play those longer games regularly enough, then spending that time at a convention is probably not worth it.
I know exactly why Sam stayed away from MegaGames, in the political climate we live today i know it is a walking on eggs type of situation and that does not make for good gameplay, that's why we have more fun being confined to the little fantasy words of the board games we play.
I won't cite names but there is a perfect example of that here on youtube where you see a big political megagame x-com style with lots of old and young people and you expect the folks just want to have a good time with a good old alien invasion...
Cue the alien faction which was composed of some of the organizers having the first encounter with the human race, from a back door emerges a skinny white colored hair girl who was supposed to be the alien ambassador to tell that the alien mission is to bring refugees to the earth... yeah, right, honestly i would have just turned my back packed my stuff and walked away.
What really happened is that everyone in the game tiptoed around really role-playing an x-com like game because you were basically being judged on you character by a lot of people you don't know because you are stuck with this shitty political bait theme by people who thought it was a good idea to transform this social role-playing interaction into a drill selection and outing of different thought on current issues.
What a load of crap and as always Sam Healey the Wise.
Mysterium is better than Deception especially for conventions
Sam's growing negative judgement of others is making him more difficult to watch.
Steve Ptacek, what, I think he is getting calmer and more relaxed!
First! whoa
RHINO HERO SUPER BATTLE OMG NEED NEED NEED