Watching this was fun! I enjoy the fact that you are willing to put your Olympian pride aside and be real with all of the world to see! I will be watching and decreasing my learning curve for sure! Thanks!
Great video Jake, watching you (as a world class Olympic Archer) honestly go through this process with bare bow and sharing the journey with us is really notable and appreciated by us all. Looking forward to your weekly updates on the process, and speaking for myself as a bare bow archer, I'm learning a lot of subtle tuning tips by watching your process. Thanks. Scott in Ca.
Glad to see someone else struggling with tuning barebow. I've come to learn that Barebow tune does not always follow the 'rules'. I make many changes expecting a given result and get something different. That's Barebow. Tune for a single distance is definitely easier. I think trying to tune for a broad range is damn near impossible. GREAT video as usual.
Mate, loving your barebow journey (not sure it's one that ever has a destination for any of us!!). It's great to see someone of your calibre willing to learn something new and put yourself out there doing it - it's a great balance to the Olympic recurve content. Thanks again Jake, still learning heaps, and thank you to the other viewers, learning heaps from you too! I'd love to dish out some barebow advice of my own, but you're gonna have to give me a year or ten!
I'm also learning barebow/traditional Asiatic reflex technique, and what I've managed to learn from those who have this stuff down: you need to learn how to shoot from both a high and low anchor if your distances vary a lot which give you two stages where you have a point-on (and with Turkish styles, more than two).
I move my anchor a bit to minimize or eliminate crawl...cause I hare crawl....and add a bit of hold under. works but I'm sure it hurts my accuracy, which I live with. I'm not really a 'dot' shooter, mostly practical 3D so can get away with not having 2" groups. I also don't really care for 3 fingers under but have to live with that or shot instinctive which I'm ok at but that bumps my accuracy down another level. its all fun which is why we fling arrows in the first place...lol. I see you mention Turkish style, never heard of it but sounds interesting, will look into that,
I spent about 6 months fiddling around to find a barebow setup that worked for me. A lot of it is just down to personal preference and what feels "right". I started tuning as if it was an Olympic style but quickly discovered that it wasn't working at all. At last I'm now happy (very nearly) with my setup. Yay!
Brilliant Jake, I have shot Olympic Recurve up until recently, learning the art of Barebow is both frustrating and enjoyable. Thank you for sharing your huge archery knowledge and your Barebow journey.
Surely one of the U.S Barebow guys or the Barebow project can help a US silver medallist out. It'd probably take about 5 minutes to tell you the stuff you're not already an expert at. A collaboration video would be the ducks nuts. And by the way these vids and your learning process are great. Keep going! As soon as the notifications let me know you've uploaded something new, I either set a reminder or watch it straight away!
@@gblan. Before Jake started on his barebow journey, he was given advice by some top barebow archers. He also said in the video, that he's been given some tips on tuning.
gblan I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Simon Fairweather was a gold medal Olympian who’s now shooting barebow, but I don’t think he’s been much of a threat to the top barebow shooters, at least not yet and he’s been at it for longer than Jake.
Even at normal speed, can see your arrows nocks flicking upward coming out of the bow. I would play with the nocking point. Raising the nocking point would also suggest some positive tiller. Keeping the arrows a bit stiff and using heavier points, would probably get your point on closer. This is all stuff I have found on my tuning journey.
Hi mr Jake I’m a great fan. I abandoned string walking two years ago, I’m a gap shooter now, I can get much better performance out of my setups and I don’t have to worry about how I hook the string,it is the same every time. I shoot a 68 inch recurve at 48 pounds, my knock point is 3/4 inch high and my arrows weigh 450 grains. My point on is 25 meters with 3 under hook,at 30 meters I aim 12 inches high using the same hook. At40 meters I’ll switch to split finger hook and I aim 24 inches below the target,and my point on with split finger hook is 55 meters. It works so great for me.
Yes! I hate to crawl so shoot gap with a touch of crawl to make the best accuracy I can get...and jump between 3 under and split like you said. I can't stand lousy arrow flight so by not dealing with a lot of crawl I can get decent flight and acceptable accuracy...and no 3 arrow 10 groups are ok with me cause I'm not a fan of dot shooting...mostly play the 3D game which has a huge 10 ring in comparison. it's all fun so life's good...lol
hi jake, thanks for the video. I shoot a gillo gt25 riser with vx1000 limbs and tuning took me awhile too. what I found was that negative tiller was essential and then I had to decide what arrows I wanted to shoot , then tune to them. If I want to shoot less weight I need weaker arrows , then re-tune. I find negative tiller a lot easier on the fingers regardless of crawl which is worthwhile for me .ATB Graham
Jake its a common misconception that Barebow is easy. Its hard enough to get a setup that works and then you shoot that bow under pressure with no clicker or release aid. For anything with a large range of distances to cover such as IFAA field or FITA field its difficult (in my opinion ) to cover the short to long with crawls for each distance that give you a point on in the middle of the target. Having the tip on/near the gold is the whole idea of stringwalking but for the extremes of distance sometimes given a particular anchor point its just not possible and a little bit of gaping on the target is required. If you try it you will discover the bow will be very out of tune at the extremes of distance anyway. You seemed to be changing a lot of things at once which makes it hard to figure out what's happening. Unfortunately I sometimes do that as well. Your bow was extremely noisy which changes with crawls as the bow changes its tune and vibrations increase/decrease. The brace and nock point need to be set to suit the bow not any kind of template or preference as arrow length, weight, brace, crawl, anchor type, tiller and crawl all determine the tune. You could probably try a template BH but it will make your tuning life harder. Arrows will go weak, stiff, nock high or low depending on the crawl as you move away from your tuning crawl. You cant have a perfect tune at all crawls only a very narrow range. So choose that point eg 30m FITA field or 50yds for IFAA whatever you choose you tune there and stick with it. The rest is a compromise. Like you say for the 18/50m game tuning is much easier as its a fixed distance however point on at 18m with a low anchor would require a very heavy/long arrow... telegraph poles 😆. Bareshafts will only fly well at one distance on a stringwalked barebow and group with fletched. Ignore nock high/low/weak/stiff at other non adjacent crawls to the one you tune at. Its meaningless, the crawl has detuned the bow so you cant expect perfect bareshaft flight. If the fletched fly ok then happy days. Best of luck in your quest. Love the videos!
Wonderful to watch. Showing us honestly, your struggle to adapt, so that people can see how difficult it is, even for someone as good as you, is brilliant. Thankyou.
Fun watching you getting the hang of Barebow, a definite change from the Olympic setup. I shoot Traditional, so I don't crawl ,shooting split finger with a tab. I really appreciate your sharing your efforts, love the shirt.
I’ve been shooting barebow for years and tuning is the bane of my archery existence! I wish it were easier! It takes me literally hundreds of shots to get it “good enough” and I usually just pic a crawl (distance) to tune to and just live with it. I feel your pain....
This is where I am at the moment too. I've been shooting BB for a few years, having shot OR using KSL for about 9 years. I changed my anchor recently lower, and get better alignment by far, but the crawl is insane. I'm shooting 36# and either have to use heavier arrows or put on heavier points. I wanted to try with a negative tiller but guessed that would be making things worse, so your experiment was really useful and saved me a little time. Thank you!
Loving your barebow journey. I'd suggest digging into "Tuning for Tens" by Rick Stonebraker if you haven't. It should be a valuable resource on a general barebow tune. At least it helped me a lot when I was starting. Edit: The book is called 'Tuning for barebow', as was mentioned in a comment below :)
He also wrote Tuning for Barebow, short and sweet a great place to start. I feel better about my struggles to understand barebow tuning after watching this!
my name is Terry O'Brien. Jake I'm finding all your videos very interesting as I'm not quite a Bowman yetbut when I complete my self build breakdown long bow the practice will start thank you
I don't know if anyone has pointed this one out yet but I just accidentally filmed my arrows fly in high speed and observed an interesting result: You can see if your nocking point is high or low just by looking at the tail of the arrows when it come out. Too low results in your arrows tailing down, and too high results in your arrows tailing up. Saves you a bit of time comparing fletched shaft and bare shaft. I think if you play your video frame by frame when the arrows come out of the bow you can see it. And it might not need to be a fancy high speed cam, just an iPhone cam with the slow motion feature can give you the result
all your arrows are dipping tail down after leaving the bow, you have to rise the nock point else you will never get a consistant result. all the rest of the tune is worthless if the arrows are flying wildly up and down untill the fletching get it stabelized, it will also reduce the necesary crawl. give it a try, nothing to lose. 0/ edit. after you shaved off drawweight by turning out the bolts it got markable better. so not alot nockpoint moving needed, id say it need to be about 3 millimeter higher( sorry european here :-)
@@mortenjacobsen5673 you have a VERRY limited range you can move the arrow up and down bevore you totaly mess up launch and flight stability. you are right, the crawl do mess with lauch precission but only to a manageable degree as can be seen with successfull barebow shooters. the golden solution would be to not crawl but move the anchor point up and down in your face..... sadly thats not possible to do in a repeatable way . without a fixed anchorpoint you have NO way to controle your drawlength and therefor your range. the only practicable way with a barebow is the string crawl... or adding a visor wich would violate the rules
Man I know what you're going through. I'm in my third year of barebow and tuning didn't come naturally. I do have one advantage over you I didn't have years of world class Olympic archery to over come. 😉 Seriously, it takes me about 3 months to set up every time I buy a new set of arrows. I'm still learning this thing called barebow.
the plan sounds fun....lets do it. I'm interested and would enjoy learning with you. I shoot some barebow but hate to crawl so dont...just shoot more instinctive but that's not great for accuracy
Just incase you don't have enough spanners in the works already, I found a lower profile grip for barebow than I use for olympic recurve helped a lot with tuning, less crawl (1/4" @ 18m), less bow hand torque, quieter bow. That Gillo grip looks pretty low profile anyway but I'd be interested to hear if others change to lower profile grips for barebow.
If you shoot the NFAA field round in barebow division you will shoot against the compounds with full stabilizers. If you shoot NFAA trad recurve you will need to have a fixed anchor with one finger touching the arrow shaft at all times, but you are also allowed a 12 inch stabilizer. My thoughts would be to get your point on between 45 to 50 yards if you will be shooting barebow and gap the longer shots. In a 28 target field round you will only shoot 2 arrows at 80 yards and 2 arrows at 70 That will be on the 80 yard walk up. 65 yards will be shot at one position 4 arrows per round so a total of 8 arrows on a 28 target round. The majority of shots will be between 20 and 50 with a few at 55 and 60 yards so a point on around 45 yards is a good solid point on. Then you can use things on your bow for sight references. The plunger button is a good reference for 3 positions using the top middle and bottom of the button, as well as the arrow rest and the front and back of the riser for 70 and 80. The hunter round is a different animal. Lots of odd distance shooting in that round but the max is only 70 yards. I know you want to keep that low anchor but there is a reason the top shooters use a higher anchor. You can have a faster arrow and still have a short point on with smaller crawls and easier tuning.
Corene, I guess you're right but there is nothing more hideous to watch than a barebow archer with a dead release fron a high anchor imho. I don't care if they are shooting 10s all day. It's WRONG ; ) imho
@@TracyPicabia You don't have to shoot a dead release. Some do and some don't. I know I shoot an active release while the fellow next to me is shooting a dead release. I learned my recurve form from Don Rabska in the mid nineties so I definitely use an active draw. Some archers will shoot their nose off with a high anchor as well. This makes them shy away from it. Like anything else there is proper form that will prevent this from happening. Basically it would be no tilting or twisting of the head to get down on the string.
@@corenerigby5036 I have my forefinger knuckle wedged under my cheek bone which I guess is fairly high and release actively same as recurve, but I definitely have to tilt my head a little (hopefully consistently) to avoid sending my nose down range. Should I throw the towel in?
@@TracyPicabia Never throw in the towel. My anchor is similar to yours. Index knuckle is just at the back of the cheek bone for me. This allows me to get into my back and have good alignment without getting my nose in the way. I will tilt my head a bit but always make sure it moves forward and contact is between my eyebrow and the string. This make the head tilt the same every time. It will also tighten up the point on distance a bit.
What a sticky problem. This makes for an interesting video. I would Archer's Advantage software help you gain any insight into arrow selection and make up? I look forward to future videos as I often get insights into my own shooting, despite the fact I am a compound shooter at the moment. Keep making great content.
One thought, and you may be able to hear this or notice it while shooting: Is your arrow bouncing off the rest due to the extreme crawl, which could appear as a nock point issue (by affecting vertical bare shaft)? I THINK that adjusting tiller can compensate for this, causing the arrow to exert less downward pressure on the rest at that higher crawl. Another option is to use a smaller gage wire, if your rest allows for it.
Tuning bare bow has been a frustration to me for years. From the video i can see the nose of your arrow lifting a foot above the tail. With crawling, this seems to be impossible to perfect. Arrow flight can be kind of tuned with tiller and knocking point, but noise and vibration are inevitable. Many barebow archers shoot very good scores ignoring these issues but they are just too nerve wreaking for me. I even tried to use a higher poundage top limb(same model as bottom) which improved but didn’t fix the issues. My final solution is just to get a pair of low enough poundage limb to be point on without a crawl at whatever distance I am shooting.
great video Jake :) quick question for you, or anyone else that knows. I'm relatively new to archery, but having great results, mostly thanks to your work here. I have a mouth level anchor, which puts my point-on range at about 50 meters.. in the UK we seem to shoot further than that, even barebow.. is the only way to increase my point-on range to lower my anchor? I don't want to change knocking point as I've spent ages tuning it so the arrow flies nice and straight off the bow.. or am I thinking the wrong way? thanks in advance.
Why you don't use your olympic limbs? I appreciate you show your own fails, thumbs up. As i said in my previous comment, you may tune your bow for one distance (cause of stringwalking), for other distances you choose the lesser evil only :-) Depends on distances you shoot .... choose about 1/3 of your max distance. I have my bow tunned for 18m, cause for longer distance arrow may stabilise itself.
Weak indication with a 30m crawl in place is OK; mine fall about 4 inches right. The arrow gets a pretty hefty off kilter smack up the arse when your crawl is in place. Checking the bare shafts at 30 without a crawl should see them actually indicate a bit stiff; if they don't then a stiffer spine might be necessary. Yep you already know it but, raise your knocking point : )
Please just address the nocking point at 30m with 30m crawl first - it will impact point on. Really first step before adjusting bow weight etc. have fun tuning, it is an interesting problem... :-)
I just tune for 30m and adjust my plunger for other distances. Some guys adjust the stringblur instead, but I'm more consistent if I don't pay attention to it. My point on distance is 55m, and my anchor is on my lips with the index on the corner of my mouth. Also have contact with the cheekbone and the jaw. Only problem is that when I achieve a great alignment, the string slaps my nose. Love your content, keep it up. Greetings from Portugal.
Hey, what poundage bow are you shooting to have a 55m point on ? What bow length also ? I shoot a Spigarelli 650 Club riser, 42lb Uukha limbs for a 70' bow and a 32' draw length. Recently shot 552 at 18m so I know that for 18m, my set up is good but my point on is nowhere near 55m. I have not done barebow long shots (more than 25m) for 6 years at least so am looking to get back into that. (Been shooting compound mostly these last 3 years).
@@cococalm Hi! I shoot a winact vt riser (not the old version), with NS wood limbs. 68'' bow. I'm about 42 lbs on the fingers. And I use 550 carbon ones cut at 29.5''. I was shooting field, but I haven't been to a competition in 3 years. Only practice for the love of the hobby nowadays.
Thx for the quick response. I also shoot carbon one 450 spine. My total arrow weight s 400grn. I do not cut the arrow at all. My draw length is 32' and have around 50lbs on the fingers. I am intrigued by your point on at 55m. I am assuming you string walk - so you have your fingers at the arrow and your point on is 55m. Am I correct with this ?
@@cococalm you are correct sir. At 55m, my index is at the bottom nockpoint (I use a brass one for the bottom), and the point of the arrow is at the centre of the target. Because of my general posture I'm never on target when I pull back. I always have to tilt my waist to aim up and bring the point of the arrow to the target. Might be because of that
Longer arrows will reduce your crawl, holding 40lbs I am shooing 29.5" 620 ACCs with about a 4mm crawl at 50m at 18m that would be about 2 inches so instead I use full length ( i think they're 31.5") 440 ACCs and with about a 1 " crawl. You will be as consistent crawling as you are split fingers as long as you make sure your crawls are consistent. You will need negative tiller the longer the crawl the more negative because you are drawing below the centre of the string. You are best off tuning for the distance you need the bow best at, I tune for 70m I lose a bit out at 90m but bare bow at 90 is about keeping them inside the blue, at 70 they are inside the red. The thing to remember is, if you are string walking then you are always looking for the best compromise, oh and big hooks are always going to be noisy. Keep at it you will get there. Oh and get that nocking point a bit higher I think mine is about 3/8 of an inch above the rest, that is going to bring you arrows down and reduce your crawl a lot as well.
Is it normal to have a different nocking point for different distance if i string walk? how do you guys manage this? different string for every distance? or would one nocking point tuned at 30m will also work with a differnet set of arrows tuned for other distance?
I know you are tuning for '30m' as a midrange for a field round, but due to all the other factors at play to shoot effectively across the full range of field distances field is definitely the hardest barebow tune. So, your kinda jumping into the deep end of barebow tuning for your first outing. You may have done this intentionally, if so disregard the rest of this comment, haha. Just a suggestion, maybe for your first barebow tune it would make more sense to skip field and tackle 18m indoor as you mentioned at the end of the vid. This would take some of the variables out of the equation and really allow you to dive into tuning at a static crawl... and, most importantly, allow you to shoot in the shade for the full video ;) Then maybe do 50m to see what the bow does at a lesser crawl and identify the tuning changes necessary... then finally circle back to field tune when you have more 'tools in your toolbox' to see how best to tune to shoot accurately across the range of field distances. Just an idea that might make your life easier. Love the vids, can't get enough, keep up the great work!
This stringwalking barebow thing seems very messed up. May be you should try shooting traditional field/hunting style recurve and do some gap shooting or instictive shooting. Tuning wouldn’t be very different from olympic recurve bow tuning.
Ok..., I'm relatively new to archery but if the riser was designed expressly for barebow and it's asymetrical then logically shouldn't both limbs be adjusted equally? With my brief experience getting the nock point adjusted so the arrow flies "flat" from the bow would be my first priority? Also from my own time shooting bare shafts only in the setup is the fastest way to tune the bow and the arrows to work together to their mutual benefit, yes? Just my two cents from the peanut gallery
Watching this was fun! I enjoy the fact that you are willing to put your Olympian pride aside and be real with all of the world to see! I will be watching and decreasing my learning curve for sure! Thanks!
Great video Jake, watching you (as a world class Olympic Archer) honestly go through this process with bare bow and sharing the journey with us is really notable and appreciated by us all. Looking forward to your weekly updates on the process, and speaking for myself as a bare bow archer, I'm learning a lot of subtle tuning tips by watching your process. Thanks. Scott in Ca.
Glad to see someone else struggling with tuning barebow. I've come to learn that Barebow tune does not always follow the 'rules'. I make many changes expecting a given result and get something different. That's Barebow. Tune for a single distance is definitely easier. I think trying to tune for a broad range is damn near impossible. GREAT video as usual.
Mate, loving your barebow journey (not sure it's one that ever has a destination for any of us!!). It's great to see someone of your calibre willing to learn something new and put yourself out there doing it - it's a great balance to the Olympic recurve content. Thanks again Jake, still learning heaps, and thank you to the other viewers, learning heaps from you too! I'd love to dish out some barebow advice of my own, but you're gonna have to give me a year or ten!
Great video Jake. Walking and talking your way through the process will be a great help for barebow shooters to understand tuning.
I'm also tuning a 25 inch GT at the moment - can't wait to see the next video!
I'm also learning barebow/traditional Asiatic reflex technique, and what I've managed to learn from those who have this stuff down: you need to learn how to shoot from both a high and low anchor if your distances vary a lot which give you two stages where you have a point-on (and with Turkish styles, more than two).
I move my anchor a bit to minimize or eliminate crawl...cause I hare crawl....and add a bit of hold under. works but I'm sure it hurts my accuracy, which I live with. I'm not really a 'dot' shooter, mostly practical 3D so can get away with not having 2" groups. I also don't really care for 3 fingers under but have to live with that or shot instinctive which I'm ok at but that bumps my accuracy down another level. its all fun which is why we fling arrows in the first place...lol. I see you mention Turkish style, never heard of it but sounds interesting, will look into that,
I spent about 6 months fiddling around to find a barebow setup that worked for me. A lot of it is just down to personal preference and what feels "right". I started tuning as if it was an Olympic style but quickly discovered that it wasn't working at all. At last I'm now happy (very nearly) with my setup. Yay!
Brilliant Jake, I have shot Olympic Recurve up until recently, learning the art of Barebow is both frustrating and enjoyable. Thank you for sharing your huge archery knowledge and your Barebow journey.
Surely one of the U.S Barebow guys or the Barebow project can help a US silver medallist out. It'd probably take about 5 minutes to tell you the stuff you're not already an expert at. A collaboration video would be the ducks nuts.
And by the way these vids and your learning process are great. Keep going! As soon as the notifications let me know you've uploaded something new, I either set a reminder or watch it straight away!
I'm thinking no barebow guys want to help him out. The sooner Jake gets barebow dialed in the sooner it's game over for everyone else.
@@gblan. Before Jake started on his barebow journey, he was given advice by some top barebow archers.
He also said in the video, that he's been given some tips on tuning.
gblan I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Simon Fairweather was a gold medal Olympian who’s now shooting barebow, but I don’t think he’s been much of a threat to the top barebow shooters, at least not yet and he’s been at it for longer than Jake.
@@8ballali that may be, but those tips may not have been tuning tips or the tips that may be helpful to him now. Tips are not universal 😉
@@msms7434. True, but it shows that barebow archers have made themselves accessible to him if he wants help.
Even at normal speed, can see your arrows nocks flicking upward coming out of the bow. I would play with the nocking point. Raising the nocking point would also suggest some positive tiller. Keeping the arrows a bit stiff and using heavier points, would probably get your point on closer. This is all stuff I have found on my tuning journey.
Hi mr Jake I’m a great fan. I abandoned string walking two years ago, I’m a gap shooter now, I can get much better performance out of my setups and I don’t have to worry about how I hook the string,it is the same every time. I shoot a 68 inch recurve at 48 pounds, my knock point is 3/4 inch high and my arrows weigh 450 grains. My point on is 25 meters with 3 under hook,at 30 meters I aim 12 inches high using the same hook. At40 meters I’ll switch to split finger hook and I aim 24 inches below the target,and my point on with split finger hook is 55 meters. It works so great for me.
Yes! I hate to crawl so shoot gap with a touch of crawl to make the best accuracy I can get...and jump between 3 under and split like you said. I can't stand lousy arrow flight so by not dealing with a lot of crawl I can get decent flight and acceptable accuracy...and no 3 arrow 10 groups are ok with me cause I'm not a fan of dot shooting...mostly play the 3D game which has a huge 10 ring in comparison. it's all fun so life's good...lol
hi jake, thanks for the video. I shoot a gillo gt25 riser with vx1000 limbs and tuning took me awhile too. what I found was that negative tiller was essential and then I had to decide what arrows I wanted to shoot , then tune to them. If I want to shoot less weight I need weaker arrows , then re-tune. I find negative tiller a lot easier on the fingers regardless of crawl which is worthwhile for me .ATB Graham
Jake its a common misconception that Barebow is easy. Its hard enough to get a setup that works and then you shoot that bow under pressure with no clicker or release aid. For anything with a large range of distances to cover such as IFAA field or FITA field its difficult (in my opinion ) to cover the short to long with crawls for each distance that give you a point on in the middle of the target. Having the tip on/near the gold is the whole idea of stringwalking but for the extremes of distance sometimes given a particular anchor point its just not possible and a little bit of gaping on the target is required. If you try it you will discover the bow will be very out of tune at the extremes of distance anyway.
You seemed to be changing a lot of things at once which makes it hard to figure out what's happening. Unfortunately I sometimes do that as well. Your bow was extremely noisy which changes with crawls as the bow changes its tune and vibrations increase/decrease. The brace and nock point need to be set to suit the bow not any kind of template or preference as arrow length, weight, brace, crawl, anchor type, tiller and crawl all determine the tune. You could probably try a template BH but it will make your tuning life harder. Arrows will go weak, stiff, nock high or low depending on the crawl as you move away from your tuning crawl. You cant have a perfect tune at all crawls only a very narrow range. So choose that point eg 30m FITA field or 50yds for IFAA whatever you choose you tune there and stick with it. The rest is a compromise. Like you say for the 18/50m game tuning is much easier as its a fixed distance however point on at 18m with a low anchor would require a very heavy/long arrow... telegraph poles 😆. Bareshafts will only fly well at one distance on a stringwalked barebow and group with fletched. Ignore nock high/low/weak/stiff at other non adjacent crawls to the one you tune at. Its meaningless, the crawl has detuned the bow so you cant expect perfect bareshaft flight. If the fletched fly ok then happy days. Best of luck in your quest. Love the videos!
Wonderful to watch.
Showing us honestly, your struggle to adapt, so that people can see how difficult it is, even for someone as good as you, is brilliant.
Thankyou.
Fun watching you getting the hang of Barebow, a definite change from the Olympic setup. I shoot Traditional, so I don't crawl ,shooting split finger with a tab. I really appreciate your sharing your efforts, love the shirt.
I’ve been shooting barebow for years and tuning is the bane of my archery existence! I wish it were easier! It takes me literally hundreds of shots to get it “good enough” and I usually just pic a crawl (distance) to tune to and just live with it. I feel your pain....
This is where I am at the moment too. I've been shooting BB for a few years, having shot OR using KSL for about 9 years. I changed my anchor recently lower, and get better alignment by far, but the crawl is insane. I'm shooting 36# and either have to use heavier arrows or put on heavier points. I wanted to try with a negative tiller but guessed that would be making things worse, so your experiment was really useful and saved me a little time. Thank you!
Looking forward to learning a few things as you go through your tuning progress.
Loving your barebow journey. I'd suggest digging into "Tuning for Tens" by Rick Stonebraker if you haven't. It should be a valuable resource on a general barebow tune. At least it helped me a lot when I was starting.
Edit: The book is called 'Tuning for barebow', as was mentioned in a comment below :)
He also wrote Tuning for Barebow, short and sweet a great place to start. I feel better about my struggles to understand barebow tuning after watching this!
@@mikefurbee8425 Sure. I was meaning that one, just forgot the actual name :)
Your spot on Jake
Congratulations 🎊🎉
my name is Terry O'Brien. Jake I'm finding all your videos very interesting as I'm not quite a Bowman yetbut when I complete my self build breakdown long bow the practice will start thank you
I don't know if anyone has pointed this one out yet but I just accidentally filmed my arrows fly in high speed and observed an interesting result: You can see if your nocking point is high or low just by looking at the tail of the arrows when it come out. Too low results in your arrows tailing down, and too high results in your arrows tailing up. Saves you a bit of time comparing fletched shaft and bare shaft. I think if you play your video frame by frame when the arrows come out of the bow you can see it. And it might not need to be a fancy high speed cam, just an iPhone cam with the slow motion feature can give you the result
all your arrows are dipping tail down after leaving the bow, you have to rise the nock point else you will never get a consistant result.
all the rest of the tune is worthless if the arrows are flying wildly up and down untill the fletching get it stabelized, it will also reduce the necesary crawl.
give it a try, nothing to lose. 0/
edit. after you shaved off drawweight by turning out the bolts it got markable better. so not alot nockpoint moving needed, id say it need to be about 3 millimeter higher( sorry european here :-)
@@mortenjacobsen5673 you have a VERRY limited range you can move the arrow up and down bevore you totaly mess up launch and flight stability.
you are right, the crawl do mess with lauch precission but only to a manageable degree as can be seen with successfull barebow shooters.
the golden solution would be to not crawl but move the anchor point up and down in your face.....
sadly thats not possible to do in a repeatable way . without a fixed anchorpoint you have NO way to controle your drawlength and therefor your range.
the only practicable way with a barebow is the string crawl... or adding a visor wich would violate the rules
Was about to write the same.
Man I know what you're going through. I'm in my third year of barebow and tuning didn't come naturally. I do have one advantage over you I didn't have years of world class Olympic archery to over come. 😉
Seriously, it takes me about 3 months to set up every time I buy a new set of arrows. I'm still learning this thing called barebow.
Geez - that bow sounded like a cello falling down a lift shaft. Start with brace height then tiller/nock height.
Love the video, learn and I go with you.
Great jake.
the plan sounds fun....lets do it. I'm interested and would enjoy learning with you. I shoot some barebow but hate to crawl so dont...just shoot more instinctive but that's not great for accuracy
Just incase you don't have enough spanners in the works already, I found a lower profile grip for barebow than I use for olympic recurve helped a lot with tuning, less crawl (1/4" @ 18m), less bow hand torque, quieter bow. That Gillo grip looks pretty low profile anyway but I'd be interested to hear if others change to lower profile grips for barebow.
If you shoot the NFAA field round in barebow division you will shoot against the compounds with full stabilizers. If you shoot NFAA trad recurve you will need to have a fixed anchor with one finger touching the arrow shaft at all times, but you are also allowed a 12 inch stabilizer. My thoughts would be to get your point on between 45 to 50 yards if you will be shooting barebow and gap the longer shots. In a 28 target field round you will only shoot 2 arrows at 80 yards and 2 arrows at 70 That will be on the 80 yard walk up. 65 yards will be shot at one position 4 arrows per round so a total of 8 arrows on a 28 target round. The majority of shots will be between 20 and 50 with a few at 55 and 60 yards so a point on around 45 yards is a good solid point on. Then you can use things on your bow for sight references. The plunger button is a good reference for 3 positions using the top middle and bottom of the button, as well as the arrow rest and the front and back of the riser for 70 and 80. The hunter round is a different animal. Lots of odd distance shooting in that round but the max is only 70 yards. I know you want to keep that low anchor but there is a reason the top shooters use a higher anchor. You can have a faster arrow and still have a short point on with smaller crawls and easier tuning.
Corene, I guess you're right but there is nothing more hideous to watch than a barebow archer with a dead release fron a high anchor imho. I don't care if they are shooting 10s all day. It's WRONG ; ) imho
@@TracyPicabia You don't have to shoot a dead release. Some do and some don't. I know I shoot an active release while the fellow next to me is shooting a dead release. I learned my recurve form from Don Rabska in the mid nineties so I definitely use an active draw. Some archers will shoot their nose off with a high anchor as well. This makes them shy away from it. Like anything else there is proper form that will prevent this from happening. Basically it would be no tilting or twisting of the head to get down on the string.
@@corenerigby5036 I have my forefinger knuckle wedged under my cheek bone which I guess is fairly high and release actively same as recurve, but I definitely have to tilt my head a little (hopefully consistently) to avoid sending my nose down range. Should I throw the towel in?
@@TracyPicabia Never throw in the towel. My anchor is similar to yours. Index knuckle is just at the back of the cheek bone for me. This allows me to get into my back and have good alignment without getting my nose in the way. I will tilt my head a bit but always make sure it moves forward and contact is between my eyebrow and the string. This make the head tilt the same every time. It will also tighten up the point on distance a bit.
@@corenerigby5036 yep, that's same as my form. But thanks for string contact tip. I will pay more attention to that for sure
What a sticky problem. This makes for an interesting video. I would Archer's Advantage software help you gain any insight into arrow selection and make up? I look forward to future videos as I often get insights into my own shooting, despite the fact I am a compound shooter at the moment. Keep making great content.
One thought, and you may be able to hear this or notice it while shooting: Is your arrow bouncing off the rest due to the extreme crawl, which could appear as a nock point issue (by affecting vertical bare shaft)? I THINK that adjusting tiller can compensate for this, causing the arrow to exert less downward pressure on the rest at that higher crawl. Another option is to use a smaller gage wire, if your rest allows for it.
Tuning bare bow has been a frustration to me for years. From the video i can see the nose of your arrow lifting a foot above the tail. With crawling, this seems to be impossible to perfect. Arrow flight can be kind of tuned with tiller and knocking point, but noise and vibration are inevitable. Many barebow archers shoot very good scores ignoring these issues but they are just too nerve wreaking for me. I even tried to use a higher poundage top limb(same model as bottom) which improved but didn’t fix the issues. My final solution is just to get a pair of low enough poundage limb to be point on without a crawl at whatever distance I am shooting.
nice vid. there will be a point in time where i will shift to barebow again.
Welcome to barebow!
great video Jake :) quick question for you, or anyone else that knows. I'm relatively new to archery, but having great results, mostly thanks to your work here. I have a mouth level anchor, which puts my point-on range at about 50 meters.. in the UK we seem to shoot further than that, even barebow.. is the only way to increase my point-on range to lower my anchor? I don't want to change knocking point as I've spent ages tuning it so the arrow flies nice and straight off the bow.. or am I thinking the wrong way? thanks in advance.
Why you don't use your olympic limbs?
I appreciate you show your own fails, thumbs up.
As i said in my previous comment, you may tune your bow for one distance (cause of stringwalking), for other distances you choose the lesser evil only :-) Depends on distances you shoot .... choose about 1/3 of your max distance. I have my bow tunned for 18m, cause for longer distance arrow may stabilise itself.
Weak indication with a 30m crawl in place is OK; mine fall about 4 inches right. The arrow gets a pretty hefty off kilter smack up the arse when your crawl is in place. Checking the bare shafts at 30 without a crawl should see them actually indicate a bit stiff; if they don't then a stiffer spine might be necessary.
Yep you already know it but, raise your knocking point : )
Tuning a barebow sounds like an oxymoron to me.
Please just address the nocking point at 30m with 30m crawl first - it will impact point on. Really first step before adjusting bow weight etc. have fun tuning, it is an interesting problem... :-)
I just tune for 30m and adjust my plunger for other distances. Some guys adjust the stringblur instead, but I'm more consistent if I don't pay attention to it. My point on distance is 55m, and my anchor is on my lips with the index on the corner of my mouth. Also have contact with the cheekbone and the jaw. Only problem is that when I achieve a great alignment, the string slaps my nose. Love your content, keep it up. Greetings from Portugal.
Hey, what poundage bow are you shooting to have a 55m point on ? What bow length also ? I shoot a Spigarelli 650 Club riser, 42lb Uukha limbs for a 70' bow and a 32' draw length. Recently shot 552 at 18m so I know that for 18m, my set up is good but my point on is nowhere near 55m. I have not done barebow long shots (more than 25m) for 6 years at least so am looking to get back into that. (Been shooting compound mostly these last 3 years).
@@cococalm Hi! I shoot a winact vt riser (not the old version), with NS wood limbs. 68'' bow. I'm about 42 lbs on the fingers. And I use 550 carbon ones cut at 29.5''. I was shooting field, but I haven't been to a competition in 3 years. Only practice for the love of the hobby nowadays.
Thx for the quick response. I also shoot carbon one 450 spine. My total arrow weight s 400grn. I do not cut the arrow at all. My draw length is 32' and have around 50lbs on the fingers. I am intrigued by your point on at 55m. I am assuming you string walk - so you have your fingers at the arrow and your point on is 55m. Am I correct with this ?
@@cococalm you are correct sir. At 55m, my index is at the bottom nockpoint (I use a brass one for the bottom), and the point of the arrow is at the centre of the target. Because of my general posture I'm never on target when I pull back. I always have to tilt my waist to aim up and bring the point of the arrow to the target. Might be because of that
Longer arrows will reduce your crawl, holding 40lbs I am shooing 29.5" 620 ACCs with about a 4mm crawl at 50m at 18m that would be about 2 inches so instead I use full length ( i think they're 31.5") 440 ACCs and with about a 1 " crawl. You will be as consistent crawling as you are split fingers as long as you make sure your crawls are consistent.
You will need negative tiller the longer the crawl the more negative because you are drawing below the centre of the string.
You are best off tuning for the distance you need the bow best at, I tune for 70m I lose a bit out at 90m but bare bow at 90 is about keeping them inside the blue, at 70 they are inside the red.
The thing to remember is, if you are string walking then you are always looking for the best compromise, oh and big hooks are always going to be noisy.
Keep at it you will get there.
Oh and get that nocking point a bit higher I think mine is about 3/8 of an inch above the rest, that is going to bring you arrows down and reduce your crawl a lot as well.
Is it normal to have a different nocking point for different distance if i string walk? how do you guys manage this? different string for every distance? or would one nocking point tuned at 30m will also work with a differnet set of arrows tuned for other distance?
@@user-hc7mi7ft9x No the nocking point stays the same, as you walk down the string it causes the bow to tip forwards and so the arrow will hit lower.
@@tonygedalovitch8958 good to know, thanks!
I know you are tuning for '30m' as a midrange for a field round, but due to all the other factors at play to shoot effectively across the full range of field distances field is definitely the hardest barebow tune. So, your kinda jumping into the deep end of barebow tuning for your first outing. You may have done this intentionally, if so disregard the rest of this comment, haha. Just a suggestion, maybe for your first barebow tune it would make more sense to skip field and tackle 18m indoor as you mentioned at the end of the vid. This would take some of the variables out of the equation and really allow you to dive into tuning at a static crawl... and, most importantly, allow you to shoot in the shade for the full video ;) Then maybe do 50m to see what the bow does at a lesser crawl and identify the tuning changes necessary... then finally circle back to field tune when you have more 'tools in your toolbox' to see how best to tune to shoot accurately across the range of field distances. Just an idea that might make your life easier. Love the vids, can't get enough, keep up the great work!
This stringwalking barebow thing seems very messed up. May be you should try shooting traditional field/hunting style recurve and do some gap shooting or instictive shooting. Tuning wouldn’t be very different from olympic recurve bow tuning.
Ok..., I'm relatively new to archery but if the riser was designed expressly for barebow and it's asymetrical then logically shouldn't both limbs be adjusted equally? With my brief experience getting the nock point adjusted so the arrow flies "flat" from the bow would be my first priority? Also from my own time shooting bare shafts only in the setup is the fastest way to tune the bow and the arrows to work together to their mutual benefit, yes? Just my two cents from the peanut gallery
Why aren't you shooting your X10's? Thanks for another great video Jake!
There's so much I want to say here, but it would be a bit presumptuous...