Fairness. The poor farmer's daughter and chief executive's son take the same exam, in the same room, at the same time. Unlike rest of the real world. that's how everything should work.
in US, rich kid with good parent easily get into most prestigious college. in China, smartest kid with passion get into most prestigious college. that's big difference.
i think this video should have chinese captions, for chinese students, just so they can get the idea Idk anyway, i am nat american and this is not my problem... Have a nice day
The "focus on research means less focus on teaching" completely rings true. I am studying engineering and our current administration has spent the last four years pushing more research and enticing professors with huge research budgets, while us students get stuck with unresponsive, dispassionate teachers who think a powerpoint presentation alone will equate to a complex understanding of high level concepts.
Are you at Virginia Tech? That is the only college of which I know where you can major in General Engineering. All the other colleges will only allow you to major in a specific engineering field - mechanical, electrical, civil, chemical.
@@perfectsplit5515 Umm I fail to see where he mentioned "General Engineering"? He just stated that he's majoring in engineering, could be any of the sub-fields you named, doesn't have to be General Engineering only.
@@manswind3417 I wanted to know if he is studying collegiate General Engineering, or a specific engineering field. Usually, college students studying an engineering field will state which specific field it is.
Typically undergrad classes 'taught' by professors heavily involved in research means the classes are actually taught by teaching assistants - graduate level students studying under the professor. If a university has a great reputation in a particular field of study, it's mostly the graduate education, not the undergrad, that earned the reputation.
I tutored high school kids for three years, and I can tell you that the stress of picking a college gets worse every year. Many kids pick their college based primarily on its rankings, and it's really tough to tell them how little it means. Outside of the top tier of schools, there's very little difference between what school you attend. But the message of "your college decides your future" still gets out there, so kids will pay top dollar to go somewhere they don't really want to go just because it's a few ranks higher. If you work hard in college and put yourself out there, you'll turn out just fine. Thank you for putting this video out there. It shows how easily these rankings can be manipulated, and that it's better to use them as a very rough guideline than a strict ranking systems.
The problem is that colleges carry reputation. Dunno about the US, but in my country the "college name" itself decides whether you'll get the job or not. Doesn't matter whether the college is actually good or not
@@N-methyl1phenylpropan-2-amine Yes, when you compare Harvard (a top school) and Montclair State (mid level), of course Harvard carries the reputation. But the difference between Tulane (upper level) and Towson (mid level) in a job interview isn't all too big. There's so many colleges in the USA, and most people never check the rankings after they turn 18. So after the top echelon of schools, no one even knows which ones are better or worse in these rankings.
@@vipa1737 aren’t those just safety schools then? I don’t think anybody cares about safety schools, they’re just there if you don’t get into a top 10/20.
High school kids don't have that critical thinking capacity. And even if they get high school doesn't teach that. Worst still, many parents don't care to help their kids beyond feeding them, so they are any help in university choice..
There was a big scandal about this in Australia years back. It was uncovered that big universities were sending recruiters to China and SE Asia and helping them with the visa process and that the language test they had to take was a joke. Then when these kids got to the universities, tutors (Aus version of class teachers) were pressured not to fail international kids no matter what, because doing so could dry up the stream of intl kids paying stupidly huge fees. While this is happening the unis are paying less for actual professors to teach classes and are relying more on post-grad kids, while the number of administrative staff was ballooning. Whole this was disgusting.
It's actually more than just that. In China there is a stereotype that students who go to Australia are rich and not hardworking because universities there are lowering their bars for more international students from year to year. It would ultimately hurt people's impressions on the schools in that country. I love Australia tho, my uncle emigrate there in the 90s.
Just want to expand on the social bubble thing further. I’m Chinese and have been studying in Australia for 6 years, I get excellent grades, but I still can’t speak English confidently, and don’t have a single close local friend. Here’s why: Chinese (and East Asian) culture has an emphasis on quietness, obedience, and humility, and I was considered too shy even by Chinese standards; it took me many years to learn how to socialise properly even in my native language. In English it’s a whole other thing: another (huge) set of rules to learn before you can comfortably produce the right social response to jokes, complains, stories, and not ruin conversation. For introverted (common for East Asians) people with nerdy interests like me it’s near-impossible to form close bonds with locals, because I’m generally an awkward and un-fun person when speaking English and I easily get more friends when speaking Chinese. So even as a person relatively well-versed in English I am still tempted to only mingle in Chinese circles. It’s very very difficult to get out of. For Chinese students who are less interested in assimilating into Western culture and barely watch enough UA-cam in English (lol) it’s even more impossible for them to make local friends, because when you easily find people who have similar interests, make similar jokes, know the memes you know, sing the same songs you sing, why bother socialise with people so different from you?
I'm sorry to say you but I think you have a close mentality (and the people that think as you). Why you all go out from China with this mentality? You will learn anything
hey !! from Australia. anyways I don't think what you're doing is wrong do what u completely want. as someone who isn't east Asian or south east Asian I still try to talk to international students bc I feel like it's very hard for them if they're in a different country. you just need to find the right person talking to, you don't have to but it helps with making connections
The best way to learn a foreign language is immersion. I wouldn't really know, however. Another idea: maybe some Australians would be interested in Chinese lessons in exchange for English practice?
I am also Chinese and studied in Costa Rica with almost no spanish skills. Find an international community, there are amazing people everywhere and socialising is a huge part of your uni experience or living abroad in general.
We had a TON of Chinese international students while I was at university a year ago, and now I know why. This video was pretty spot on with its description of our international students. They tended to stick together and unfortunately tended to struggle academically. One day in the office of one of my professors, he went off to me, privately of course, about how the university kept setting Chinese students up for failure because they didn't speak or write English well enough to succeed at the university level, so he consistently was failing them. This came from a guy who was usually always very calm and even tempered. The university also made sure the students were dependent on the university by providing them with meal plans, cell phones, and housing, for a price of course. It was honestly a bit of a sketchy situation.
It’s par for the course re: providing them everything they need. That would be similar at most schools and was true when I studied abroad in Argentina (I’m an American). However, it’s not all the universities’ fault. I teach at a high school in China and until recently, there was an explosion of sketchy companies promising parents that in exchange for obscene amounts of money (think taking out a second mortgage) they could get their kids into any college via SAT training and writing essays FOR their kids. Unfortunately, these companies were often led by Chinese people with very little understanding of the Western system and in possession of very low English themselves. I often received a bizarrely general or terribly-written essay from a student and would inevitably find out they had paid some company to write it. The Chinese government is now systematically evaluating these companies and forcing them to move to non-profit models. While the main focus is on profit-mongering “training schools” for K-8 grades, it is thankfully also reducing the amount of these ridiculous places. Basically, there’s a lot of preying on ignorance made possible by a certain level of censorship in one society and a financially strapped university system on the other. Culture Hacks is also a fascinating book that explains some of how China works and ends up explaining their obsession with “brand names” (ie rankings).
The english language part seems quite different to the University of Auckland. Everyone entering UoA is required to sit a Diagnostic English Language Needs Assessment before entering, and if you don't perform well you get admitted to a course on academic english Though there could very easily still be issues pertaining thereto at UoA that I don't know about
@@valoeghese Yeah, we have tests like that too for math and English. My university, at least, had pretty loose English requirements. You could be in upper level classes without having taken any English. It's not too uncommon in my state.
I went to a high school that prioritized getting into Ivy League and prestigious research universities. I applied to most of them, thinking that they were the key to a successful future. They all rejected me. I remember being devastated and making fun of the local public university that I was accepted into. Five years later, I've realized that studying film at my university was the right choice, as it was my greatest passion. I also found a job with a professor I really like and state scholarships that ended up paying me to go to school, even now as I get my graduate degree. Also, I made friends and professional connections that I never would have at an Ivy League. I understand this video is more about the macro level political factors of university rankings, but if any student applying to colleges reads this, remember to stay open about which school you choose. Do what you love doing, and the rest will follow. Great video!
@I ain't no millionaires son! There is nothing wrong with going to trade school. You can get a degree much faster and load a lot less debt. Then you can start earning, saving and then getting another degree. That pretty much guarantees a solid future with decent income.
@@fireball43 I didn't want to go to school for film initially. I saw myself going into engineering or economics. The only school that accepted me was a safety pick where I happened to choose film as a major. Had I been more invested in film, I probably would have to applied to USC/NYU, etc. but I have no idea how I would have offset the cost. 4 years at NYU is ~$100k in tuition.
@@lordprivateer4965 26k. That's mostly from my assistantship and other school jobs. Again, for context, that's one semester (13 credit hours) of tuition at NYU.
I went to one too and it sucks how people place your value on what schools you get in. I'm going to be attending a state school next year because of the cost, but it sucks when people sneer at it. I guess they won't be sneering when I don't have any undergraduate debt from the lower cost
It's not really surprising at all to me. There's only so much enthusiasm you can muster, having a full-time job at teaching and doing research on top of that means you either have virtually no free time, or start to take the time out of whichever you're incentiviced to focus on less. Which tend to be the teaching in most of these cases
I agree with EZ. I would formulate it differently The more time a teacher spends on research on the cost of other teaching improving activities, the worse the teaching become - I would say.
I am a German student who did her bachelors in Amsterdam before deciding to go to a higher ranked/"better" university in London for her masters. Although I was more than happy in Amsterdam, I felt that one of the prestigious British unis would prepare me better for the competitive job market. Well, what should I say? Going from a 50+ uni to one of the top ten, the British one was much worse. In academic quality and organization. Plus, they kept asking for feedback, however, stayed non-responsive to any negative feedback, and barely taught me what I had already learned in my Bachelors (if even). In many European countries, unis are for free or relatively cheap (2k per year). But the uk is extremely expensive compared to that (40k for a masters). Hence, many European students expect the uk unis to be better, otherwise they wouldnt pay this surplus. My uk uni, however, is completely oblivious to that, only compares itself to other overpriced British unis, and is more than happy to hear that I barely learned anything at their institution, as long as they can somehow sell me off to the job market, since their ranking is highly dependent on the salary earned by graduates (yes, this is true and shocking and yes, this is the Financial Times ranking I am talking about here, whose ranking is made up to 25% by the salary earned in the first years after graduation, the rest being based on research and citations.)
People are reluctant to make documentaries on these highly organized and smooth scamming operations by western universities. These tales are common enough. The BBC is not going to make them nor will any "respected" media channel.
Welp... As a french who is planning to stay in my good old free public university for a master's, this is somewhat reassuring that I'm not missing out on much at least.
And this is why I love the German university system. I'll simply go to the closest university which happens to offer what I want to study. Is it the best? Unlikely. Is it good enough to build a good career on a degree from there? Definitely. Edit: I just met a Nigerian who went from the US to Germany to study here. He pays $300 instead of like $30k per semester.
You cant do that here lmfao. Boomers instilled in everyone that University rank matters. I dont blame em either. I had dogshit experiences with highschool teachers, and genuinely do see a difference in education based off highschools, and their management. Im going to college soon, but I genuinely feel that school quality matters a shit ton
@@cattysplat What are you tryna imply by "top stay at the top, and the bottom stay in their place" ??? Are you tryna say that bottom universities should know their place, and should never strive for better?
@@honkhonk8009 I think they're saying that the way the rankings are designed and their unavoidable influence makes it hard for the low ranked universities to climb the rankings.
I'm european but was conned by this bullshit too. I managed to enter "the best" mechanical engineering school in my entire country despite having really high rejection rates. Let's just say they treated me so well I ended up with severe depression. Teachers would come to class once every two weeks, only to verbally assault us, others would not know how to use powerpoint and use it as an excuse to leave us without classes for months despite having a fucking phd in AI (while not related FFS, IT'S FUCKING POWERPOINT). Nearly all of us dropped out before the first year ended and were promptly met with more verbal abuse by the administration, who straight up thought we had no value as people and were inferior to them. Talk about elitism. I decided to just go for our equivalent of a state school and found out that you can be treated like a human being while in uni, while also finding out they had way better installations, teachers, commodities and even programs to make sure no student was falling behind. At first I didn't believe it tbh, this uni was meant to be garbage in comparison to my last one according to those ratings. I also found out that this new uni has a program where my degree is instantly valid across the whole of europe and the us (though that last one requires some paperwork if you wanna do stuff with any legal implications outside of Texas, since that's where the uni they partnered with to achieve it is from), while the previous one wasn't even valid across all of europe, just my own country. The first semester at my new one was still tough though, not only my will to study was depleted, so was the one to live. I really did think I wouldn't make it to the end of the year without killing myself, having truly believed what I was told beforehand. By the end of it, I managed to get back on track, sorta. I did fail a whole lot of subjects the first semester, but by the second one I was not only passing, but learning more than I thought I ever could, my grades reflecting that. I'm an atheist, but I really do hope there is such a place as hell, so the people who created this exploitative garbage can taste some of their own medicine.
I went to a top school and a top college, dropped out of both to save my sanity. Both places made me want to commit suicide. Sad as it sounds I'm pretty sure that's how the system works. Even if teaching is terrible you're expected to teach yourself since the institution cannot possible be liable, because they're so "highly rated", it must be the students fault, nobody will believe you. If you drop out or kill yourself as a failing student, well that's their problem solved in keeping their top grade percent high.
Something instantly came to mind when you were describing your first school. Idk if you're in France, but I'm an international student and I went to preparatory class. To say I left with my self esteem and will to live intact would be the lie of the century. It's supposed to be for the crème de la crème. But they managed to turn away so many people in the first two weeks that I wondered if if I was making a mistake by staying. And even the people that completed the program and moved on hate it so much. I'm in a public university now and doing so much better. And I can't believe my hs teachers talked bad about uni because honestly out if everything it's the place for me.
@@whatif5108 wow, I didn't knew there were international students in preparatory classes. Must have been really hard! I managed to get into a école d'ingénieur with a bsc in physics from public university and I'm really happy with it, at least I could enjoy my life and not work all the time
Well same thing happened with me, I am studying in India's most premiere college IIT, Delhi (although it's govt funded, but ranked no.1 when compared to pvt or govt), it's placements stats are unmatched in entire nation.... 500+ students out of 1300 got 150k+ USD Jobs in companies in like Google, Microsoft etc (here companies come to campus to recruit students)..... Our Computer Science professor was a di¢k, we protested and got him kicked out because that guy literally demolarised us, said that you'll are robots etc type of verbal and mental abuse...... The only thing which was in our favour was the management was good..... Well this college's fees is just 18k USD for 4 years which includes mess, hostel, academics etc and if your parents earn less than 10K USD, then you can study for free.... but govt spends nearly ~80K USD in each student over 4 years ......
Wow, I'm from Latam and i heard a lot of histories in how europe have the best education in the world in almost every aspect, but i see that they have some important problems too. I'm happy for you and i hope that you get an excellent education in this new uni
I remember noticing this at my University 15 years ago: in first year there were so many people that barely spoke English... if you have to team up with them on an assignment, they struggled to write their part (I often had to explain why Wikipedia is not an appropriate source...). I felt bad for them because it was clear that few of them made it to the next year, but it was an easy source of income for the University to just "let anyone in" to first year who could afford it, because it was easy money for the school. An administrator admitted to me there were high suicide rates among them because they were failing, under immense pressure, they were isolated, scared :( I had no idea. Talk to them, be nice and help them practice English if you can.
@@deadpresident78 A lot of the time their English is actually very impressive while it is not the main language of their home country - but they often can't write university standard essays and reports. But then again... there were students who grew up speaking only English their whole lives still had zero clue how to write a report that wasn't entirely plagiarized. At least the foreign students took their education seriously.
@MUWAFFAQ Most Chinese international students "know" English since English was taught in all Chinese elementary, middle, and high schools. But knowing English vs. being able to use English to put together a college-level essay and give a speech is a different story. I doubt all native English speakers can easily do that without proper high-level education.
The very idea of ranking is also heavy within Chinese culture. I remember even in elementary school, my parents would ask me, "are you ranked at the top in your class?" all the damn time. We take rankings VERY seriously even if the actual quality isn't true. Because of that, a similar idea has been happening among Asian-American communities. You will still get parents asking, "you should go to (insert name of school) because of rankings!" I remember I got admitted to a lesser state university and my mom would nonstop ask me, "have you thought of transferring?", and I'm glad I never did because sometimes, the lower-ranked stuff teaches you more. I also get classmates telling me that people in "better schools" only learned simulation, but the counterpart in my uni learned practical, hands-on stuff. TLDR: don't let the rankings deceive you from what unis actually teach people.
Actually what is taught is necessarily everywhere the same. The assumption that all good teachers go to prestigious schools and bad teachers go to non-prestigious schools: maybe wrong.
Which come off no suprise, the concept of equality is pretty much non-existent in asian culture and country, especially korean/japanese/chinese culture. So they use ranking to rate everything because to asian, They either see you as "inferior" classes, Or they see you as "superior" classes. No in between such as equal. Also they adjust their morality according to your social class too. For example, hitting someone older/richer than you is no-no, But hitting someone younger/poorer than you is viewed as "education" or "training" .
Similar to the Gaokao, the Suneung in South Korea determines the class - economic and social of someone's prospective post-high school life. It's such a Confucian remnant on our societies, Japan also similarly has a end of high school / pre-university comprehensive exam. Our success is owed to this as well as our stress and high suicide rates unfortunately.
Yeah, as a university student here in Dominican Republic, it hurts me knowing the huge amount of stress other students face, specially from Asia, it doesn't even compare
It's the same thing here in India, Students have to appear for JEE for technical courses and in NEET for medical courses. I have seen people devoting 6 years of their life and yet failing to get in a good college. Honestly it's not worth it
India also has such exams. You fail your first attempt at entrance exams, everyone looks down on you. I feel like most Asian countries have this system.
Well same goes for India too, Here there are exams JEE (for Engg) NEET (for Medical), CAT (for Management) , but my parents were great, they never said anything thing like thse to me, never asked my rankings from me...... Just said "study whenever you like, but study by heart, Knowledge is important than ranks or grades"..... Whereas my friend's parents asked him about ranks etc, even my relatives too....... Well tbh because of no pressure from my parents, I used to without any pressure, used to give tests with calm mind without the fear of whatever rank I'll get because at the end my parents didn't cared about my rank...... So because of these factors, I always ended up in top 5 of my class even not giving too much of an effort for those rankings compared to other students who used to study day in day out...... Now I am in India's most premiere Govt college, *IIT Delhi* (it's no.1 in India when compared to pvt or govt)...... Parents have a really really great role child's development.....
I'm honestly amazed the publication/citation issue hasn't turned into a big scandal. A few have popped up over the years, but never gotten traction outside of academia. Unfortunately, even if the whole model you described falls apart, the US government provides the loans, so they have an interest in keeping the system flowing, even if it is broken.
The rankings are flawed but it’s still better than not using the ranking. There is a lot measured in the rankings that do matter a lot - the problem is since the formula is made public, they can gain the system
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Not really. Rankings have no use to you if you have no idea what you'll do in life. Of course any Harvard or MIT graduate will get a job easily but someone who goes to an average state school and has no idea what they want to major in are basically paying for nothing. Use scholarships and academic programs that each University offers to determine what University you want to go to. If you're interested in STEM go to a STEM oriented school, if you're interested in law and politics go to a university with a good law program, ect. Always look for the University that will benefit YOUR specific goal or interest or future job instead of being influenced be prestige and rank.
@@danielanderson6933 even in your scenario the rankings still matter- but you also need to apply “what type of program do I want”? The rankings often include rankings for specific degrees or areas of study. I think those are the most relevant than the general overall score. For example, if I want to be an engineer, Harvard might be top in the world in general but Stanford would be ranked better and would a better choice than Harvard.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Yes exactly. Only use rankings to compare schools that will have a direct impact on what you're studying, but don't just use prestige as a metric to determine what school you'll go to. Many people make the mistake of choosing the most expensive or far away school because of reputation like the video stated, but many times the best education you could possibly get are the nearby schools that cater to your specific needs and budgets so you'll be able to make the most of it in those 4-8 years.
This is actually very interesting to watch coming from a country (Germany) where nearly all universities are roughly of equal quality, but where the government tried and tries to create "excellence", i.e. universities that place well on rankings. It always confuses people when a university they've basically never heard of - RWTH Aachen - scores extremely high alongside universities in Munich and Berlin, where people know at least the town. The interesting thing about choosing a university in Germany is that - unless you study a niche subject - it's mostly arbitrary. Your chances aren't decided by what the name of the university you went to is, but either financial background or chance. For example, our last Chancellors graduated from Hamburg (Scholz), Leipzig (Merkel), Goettingen (Schroeder) and Heidelberg (Kohl) university - only one of which tends to show up on international rankings. IF you study a niche subject, you'd generally try to find out what the research and teaching focus of the professor is before deciding. For example, going by Japanology programms - if you're interested in history, go to Bochum U, if you're interested in literature, go to Freie University Berlin, if you're interested in religion, go to Tuebingen, if you're interested in gender studies, choose Duesseldorf, the list goes on. That's MUCH more fiddly than going by university reputation! The upside to this whole thing is: If you don't have the cash to move out of your parents' house and live vaguely rural, that doesn't mean you're doomed - you can visit a small course at a local university or technical university, and it likely won't be a detriment in any way even if you aim high.
Trust me, every engineer knows RWTH! :) Similarly for TU Delft and other technical universities in Europe, most people don't know them, but people in fields do. My sister (RWTH) and I (Imperial College London) both had to explain to people that we're at universities, not vocational/associate degree colleges because of the names.
RWTH Aachen is in the top 10 of the biggest universities in Germany. Even bigger than any of the Berlin universities. But yeah, the excellence initiative weakens the quality of teaching, just to score higher in rankings. Universities that didn't manage to get the excellence status are at an unfair disadvantage and receive less money than universities with excellence status.
Thats what I love about german higher education system. As an international student coming from Central Asia I was shocked by the employmen stats and amount of average salary of graduates of particular universities. Looking at how well students end up after graduation, you just start to ignore universities' rank in QS or THE, as almost everyone with the same degree, but from different universities, get paid equally.
good insight into understanding the German higher education system, yet does it matters more about the reputation when it comes to business schools in Germany?
well... anybody in DACH-region who studies a STEM-subject has heard of RWTH ^^ I for myself study in Austria, it's pretty similar to Germany just that we only have few universities (which tend to be more conservative) As a physics student I witnessed many intetnational students blindly going to University of Vienna, because it's the highest ranked. Talking about Physics, it has the highest ranking in the country (because of research and now the nobel prize), but it is definitely not first choice for most locals (who know what they're doing), the fact that TU Vienna freshmen are often hired to do mathematics tutorials at University of Vienna should speak for itself lol
Thanks for sharing stuff like this, a person like me would have not had the opportunity to learn incredibly interesting and useful information like this like 40 years ago, so I really appreciate you breaking all this down
NO! NO! NO! Many people say I am sick in the head. NOOOO!!!! I don't believe them. But there are so many people commenting this stuff on my videos, that I have 1% doubt. So I have to ask you right now: Do you think I am sick in the head? Thanks for helping, my dear bw
This also holds very true in the UK. The number of Chinese students was already high and increasing, and has boomed massively due to restrictions on US visas last year. Many are ruthlessly exploited, with universities waving English language requirements to charge students who will inevitably fail £90,000+ to be there.
Yup. Chinese mainlanders litterally flood your school, to the point its not even funny. They dont even interact with anyone else, and end up forming their own bubbles.
@@honkhonk8009 okay? Because ig it's so easy to interact with a completely different group speaking a different language when there are already people you're familiar with. They are obviously going to flock together. Including all the xenophobia in America, (I'm American) I don't blame them.
This problem is extremely pronounced in Australian universities. Australian citizens have subsidised University fees and accesss to interest free government loans to afford an education. International students are required to pay each semester upfront at full cost. Over the last 15 years, Australian universities have become degree factories for international students, where funding is diverted into building international accommodation rather than investing into research facilities, grants etc. This problem is exacerbated as the government provides permanent residency schemes for students on study visas if they do certain degrees. Everyone flocks to these degrees, few can get a job after, due to lower English language proficiency standards and increased labour supply. These students then take any job they can get and saturate the unskilled labour market. It is a malicious program which robs developing countries of their talent to ensure a developed country has a steady stream of cheap foreign labour which can be exploited. These policies are deliberate and ensure wages are suppressed, federal tax revenue is high, housing demand is high, and education profits are high. But hey, it helps expand GDP - so all good right?
@@starsinthesky593 To a degree it impacts local people - particularly the young and unskilled - but since pandemic and subsequent closing of the borders, it hasn't been this easy to find a job (for locals) in Australia for more than 35 years. Increased numbers of international students (who are funnelled into mostly unskilled work) in Australia hinders wage growth (as labour supply is increased) and also puts upward pressure on rents and house prices. Many local Australians have found that shutting the borders had a net positive impact on them - unless, of course, they worked in tourism, or have family overseas that they were unable to visit/have visit them.
@@alphabet_soup123 oh that's intresting , actually it's good if your whole population is employed which pay more taxes but why then need of a education industry which affects them ? There are many other industries to earn money and support growth of a nation !
As an international student who is studying in australia, I can't agree more. I think the model has to focus more on the quality of education than funding research, since there are so many people right now who do not have any idea about the fundamentals of the field they are studying. The current model is just deliberately and blatantly for the selected few, whether it is for internationals or domestics alike, and this I feel like hinders the growth of new creative intellectuals that can offer so much more to the community if only they got better teachers. Not to mention the dominant chinese students that are always noticeable on campus. Despite having numerous chinese societies and clubs, they seem very much isolated to their own small group, and this excacerbates when they are allocated in group activities. I had experience working with a chinese student but they extensively talked in chinese with other chinese students while I remained isolated. I asked why not speak english and they said something like we understand better in chinese. Then why even come to Australia if you really gonna have your little bubbles? Also this phenomenon is more extreme in majors such as science or math involved subjects, cause you do not need english to communicate. If you just have their own chinese tutors, which are often available through numerous ads in uni, they buy those courses in chinese companies separate from universities and get the help they need. That way they can just go to australia, barely increase their english abilities but can still pass or even excel in their degrees and get whatever paper they want. I always found this just very ridiculous.
This is wrong. Those students will never get Australian citizenship unless they marry an Australian, which they won't since they always stick together in their own bubble.
I can only imagine the pressure that those Gaokao exams bring. We have something like that in Vietnam. In fact, my parent's life changed after their exams, which opened the door for them to get government funded scholarships to study in Russia. Those people formed an upper class for that generation. Those who could not make it during the the exam, would only be able to catch up and exceed by becoming business people in Eastern European countries. Even when they are rich and come back to Vietnam, for a long time, people like my dad would look down on them because they didn't make it in the exams in the old days. I come from a (back then) upper middle class, who would have never made it in the uni entrance exam. The education system was designed for well rounded machines, not humans. I was fortunate enough to have full support from my parents to leave and study abroad when I was 17. I watched from afar many of my friends going through the entrance exam and have huge respect for those that made it. Those that did not make it to prestigious schools, 10 years on, they're still not getting very far. I now live in Australia, and have seen that that success of a person does not depend on the label of the university they attended, but their mindset and attitude towards success. The barriers between the classes are there, inevitably. However, it is less heavy and crushing that that in VIetnam, or China or Asia in general.
I agree. For those who really made it, they are not normal people at all. determination, dedication, execution, and gambling based on broaden horizons supply their success.
11:55 “Students may wonder why so many of their classes are capped at 19 or 20 students” I would love to see this played in my freshman/sophomore lectures where 300+ people crammed together to watch PowerPoints from some old professor that’s given the exact same lecture for the last 20 years and he’s just as bored as we are. It would be the pinnacle of comedy.
@@LaughingJokerProd Writing classes are almost always capped at 19-20... and there are never enough of them. Didn't complete my writing credit until senior year because I could never wake up on time for registration and they were always full by the time I did
@@yangzhang5870 What kind of writing class? I assume if its a technical writing class, it'd need the professor to actually be somewhat invested in making sure things are going right enough especially if they dont have ta's
@@LaughingJokerProd nope just a gen-ed writing requirement. My chem 101 class was 300+ but all the freshman English classes at my college were capped at 20
I’m a civil engineering student at UBC in Vancouver BC. One of my friends, who is international, pays about 10x the tuition I pay. That flabbergasted me. I can definitely see why schools would market towards international students.
Undergrad at another one of the "Big 3" in Canada, ngl their tuition scares me because it's about as much as I would've had to pay if I studied in the US instead of coming back to Canada.
@@kiwipeanut8074 it honestly gets really stressful sometimes. For example, a couple weeks ago, we had 4 midterms in a week, 3 of which were on the same day. You can check out the UBC or UBC Engineering subreddit for more insight, though.
My family isn't that "middle-class" enough to get me "international". And Gaokao is the most exhausting gate that I passed through and got an "OK" result. Not the best scores I can get. Ended up with an average key university. Students who aren't happy with the results can spend another year and take the Gaokao again if they will. But I just can't take that pressure again, for another year. I just go with it. University is the important stepping-stone when you are a graduate. But when you start the career, it doesn't matter that much we as students used to think it does. Two years after graduating, I've got a well-paid job now that I can't imagine when I was in school.
I feel you because I'm a person that have taken another year to re-take the Gaokao, but the sad part is, the next year someone stole the Math exam paper before the exam, then temporarily the Math exam paper was replaced to "exam B" (they always prepare different exams), and the "exam B" is extremely difficult for everyone, I was not aware this is the Plan B when taking the exam, and I feel extremely depressed when taking the exam because I have no idea why this time it's so difficult. this resulted in me still got a "OK" score like the last year, I've wasted a year but I have to take it...I had no extra year to waste...
I work at a municipality in the Netherlands where there are international students attending colleges. I try to be as kind as possible to them. I have had a couple that just felt lost and needed someone who listened to them, because they are so overwhelmed and sometimes just want to go home, but they can't. Especially Chinese students. It is not just language, but also culture, costumes and a different way of life. They are under pressure to succeed and considered lucky to be abroad at all. These students usually avoid things they do not understand and are ashamed to say they do not understand something. I think they are miserable most of the time and I feel rather sorry for them.
I was thinking about this as a European international student in the NL with family ties to the country. The experience my Asian International friends had were and are so problematic and fully reflect what was said in the video..
Unfortunately this is generally what the immigrant experience is in general, not just for students but also workers and anyone really. My girlfriend is Turkish and she actually had to drop out of university so that she could immediately work and support her entire family of 6 people, the pressure is unreal. She can never take a break. And the government is also putting pressure on you to prove your worth. The strength that is required is absolutely unlike anything that native Europeans/Americans know.
@@MrMadalien true, but this is also why some of our most successful fellow citizens come from foreign ancestry. They had to struggle in ways we Americans take for granted. My grandmother came to america when she was 17 by her self and she ended up raising a family of 7. Struggle is good, if you can make it through. Wholeheartedly agree with the original premise of this video however.
Very true. As a grad student at NTU who is required to do 416 hours of TA duty, I have to handle undergrad tutorials. While my prof/supervisor is supposed to show up, he only ever does on the first day and never again. :D
THANK YOU! I was shocked at how many first year international students, especially from Asia, don’t have the necessary language skills to succeed at North American post secondary institutions. They’re being scammed for the fees they pay, nearly 5x what the domestic students pay, and it’s disgusting.
@@jogo798 nope. I'm from India and I know a ton of people who attend college in the US. Most of them are middle class - they take out loans and get scholarships inorder to afford going there and work small jobs to afford living there.
This is also a labor market problem. Like you said a half of the issue is the Gaokao system and implications of its test score to the major determinant of your career opportunities and life. The labor market is overly valuing college brand credentials and not giving enough chance to the people who learn outside the standard college education system. Anyone can learn pretty much anything at very low cost today, and that is a direct threat to the college system as a whole (as long as its purpose is to make money).
I definitely agree. One big example is software development. You can learn the vast majority of what you need to code without going to college, yet most recruitment is still looking for college education. There are people like me who dont do with self-motivated learning and need a structured learning environment, hence why ive decided to go to college for it. But the overvaluation of college degrees has been a major problem.
@@tlpineapple1 This is largely true, coming from someone who went to college for an M.S. in Computer Science. Even with a college education, many people who were in my degree program were still relatively incompetent. I would rather work with someone who has been motivated enough to learn on their own without a degree than someone with a degree who lacks the motivation to do their work. With that said, the problem is much more pronounced in undergraduate programs. Graduate programs tend to retain the more motivated students who actually care about furthering the field.
@@fairlyfactual451 I personally have some issues with where you describe when it comes to motivation. I have a learning disability that specifically effects my executive function, which makes it literally impossible to just "be motivated" enough to learn without a structured environment. Meanwhile i spent 5 years in the USMC in which time i recieved awards on my dedication and completion of our mission as well as surpervising the section i worked with. That included working directly under our commanding officer of the regiment. Thats not even counting my 6 years in EMS that ive consistently been a high performer in, on average completing more calls for service then other crews. The issue with college is a systemic issue thats been essentially beat into the current generations that college degrees are a must, which componds with bachelor's focusing too much on gen eds due to a lack of K12 advancement. Add to all of this that many career fields will actually use college to train their future employees in knowledge that could be better learned on the job. (though the tech industry is often much better about this.) Also i think theres this idea from high earners in HR departments with expensive degrees think any high income job should have a degree which causes degrees to often appear on a screening application when it really doesnt need to be. This leads to most kids going straight to college without gaining much actual workforce experience applicable to the careers they are interested in. (i also hate when people say service industry jobs are what people should use to gain workforce experience. I got almost nothing from my time in high school doing those jobs. End tangent.) TL;DR I feel this is a vastly complex and related to the overall systemic issues in our educational system from kindergarten all the way to college.
True. The main issue I see from an employer side ist the inability of HR and Managers to judge skill. The best strategy is to slap some buzz words into your cv you know are hot atm.
The problem with the education system in Asian countries is that there's not enough emphasis on other possible paths to go. Maybe one could do a detour to community college or vocational school, work a couple of years, and then go to college/university.
I'm a Chinese student who just left the Gao kao path. I felt directly spoken to in this video. Though I am a Chinese international student, I don't have the money to pay for the high intuition fees. Sad.🙃
在中国走出去的留学生圈子中，人们普遍把德国治学的严谨当成是显著的事实，一个段子称“你在德国大学的四年将会是你人生中最有意义的八年”。我是说，德国留学通常被认为很难毕业@@mwuerz In the circle of Chinese students studying abroad, people generally regard the rigor of German scholarship as an obvious fact. A joke says, "Your four years at a German university will be the most meaningful eight years of your life." I mean, studying in Germany is usually considered difficult to graduate
Reminds me of how French universities are always low in these rankings, because they don't "publish" much. But in France, research is done by separate (publicly funded) research centers, universities focus exclusively on education. So they're considered "bad" because they don't do research... which has never been their job. I always find it funny when people think that education in France is terrible only based on the universities ranking, where if you have worked with French people your realise their education is just as good, and probably wider, than elsewhere. And yeah the problem in the US is mostly the for-profit model, if you want your citizens to be educated university should be public and free. It costs a little bit to the taxpayer but the result is totally worth it. And universities wouldn't need to whore themselves to get better ranking.
Idk I heard a lot of French people in Niagara Falls talking about how they’re excited because they’re really close to New York City. Based on what I encountered in France they acted like a 1.5 hour drive was long. So based on that they’re way off. New York City it about 8-10 hours away roughly. And I also find that the French are very similar to Americans. We’re both a bit too proud to admit their wrongs. But unfortunately due to the American education system we don’t learn enough to counter you. Whenever a French person talks about Iraq I bring up Algeria and how France destroyed Haiti. But that’s because I’m a history teacher/student teacher. I’m pretty much an apprentice teacher. But I love it. Maybe I haven’t been jaded yet lol. I was happy I got a student to do a project on the Haitian Revolution.
Bullshit. It doesn't "cost a little", it cost a whole lot. Why would it be worth it? We have a shortage of people doing uncomfortable jobs, not a shortage of people doing university. You want to artificially privilege the already priviliged at the cost of the ones doing the uncomfortable jobs. The universities in the USA have no intention of becoming public. They want to make profit. And if you just hand them money, it will only become worse - they will extract even more profit off the taxpayer for even less in exchange.
I mean, if I was deciding between two exactly same universities, one with research arms and the other without, I’d definitely choose the former. Maybe that’s just me, but I wouldn’t look at it as a good thing.
The problem with free education IS NOT THE TAXES, instead its the service provided. The free university you attend will be trash as well as every student in the building. Heres a study, the graduation rates of community college are LOW, around 20% when we looked at free community colleges the graduation went DOWN, around 10%. Why? Because if people aren’t paying for it, they aren’t giving care to it.
Had I known these facts 15 years ago, I wouldn't have gone to college at all. I am a victim of misinformation my university mischievously promoted. They cited a survey that showed 99% of the graduates were able to get a job within a year of completing their degree. Little did I know graduates who ended up working at McDonald's and Starbucks were also counted as 'employed' by my almamater.
In my college a professor walked into every class, telling us: "There is going to be a university ranking based on student surveys. The better we are in that ranking, the better the college that you are going to graduate from is going to look. But I'm not telling you what you should choose on the survey."
It is smart of him to do so and, sadly, would be smart of the students to over inflate the reviews to give the school a better name, even if unearned. Places like Google have some severe college elitism in their hiring processes so even if you took underwater basket weaving, if it was from a college that is 'prestigious', you are have much better odds than if you got a great education at a place that doesn't have the same value in the name.
@@pigsgofly3176 Not remotely true as to who they hire or how. And are you saying that Engineers don't go to college?? I live right next to a Google campus and have number of people I know that currently work and have worked there. This is not new or unique knowledge.
@@curtisbme google still hire people from state schools. For real prestige places you need to look at law firms and hedge funds in Wall Street. You don’t have a degree from a prestige university these guys doesn’t even bother with your application. Elitism at its best.
Speaking as a former PhD candidate, this video is so accurate it hurts. From 2016 to 2018, I was a teaching assistant for a senior-level pre-med course that always had a moderate number of international students who could at least memorize the figures to a point of earning a B or C overall in the class. My professor and I would talk about the lack of engagement and willingness to answer questions by international students, and we came to realize it was likely because they couldn't speak English well enough to engage with us on the level that was required by the (very advanced) material. They never seemed happy and always kept to themselves/each other.
Chinese students don't like answering questions because they've been taught to keep quiet during class. That's the Chinese way of teaching, teachers teach and students listen. China's population is too large, there are too many students in a class, and teachers don't have enough time to interact with students. In addition, they are shy and afraid of answering the wrong answer. At least from my experience as a Chinese student.
I am American of Chinese descent, and in my first year of graduate school, it would be the international Chinese students that actively try and befriend me at least on social media but the American students wouldn't. I mean I wanted to make friends - to build a network of people with diverse abilities and to find a girlfriend, but to have primarily international Chinese students wanting to be friends with me, and to have American students prefer to be among themselves and avoid me, just didn't feel right. Now that my life is oriented towards research and completing my Ph.D., I don't have time for any socializing or making friends. If instead, I went to a party university, focused on clubs / student organizations, frequented parties, and perhaps ran a club myself or been an officer, I would have made more friends than I knew what to do with. But I couldn't have it all, and focusing on my GPA and making myself employable in the traditional sense became the higher priority, and now it is my only priority. Fortunately, I did get back into the Army Reserves, and was able to spend time in an organization that valued team-building, and met people who worked there wanting to be friends, and also have nice jobs in the "real world", some of whom are making bank, and proving that you don't need a Ph.D. to make it out there. They gave me a bit of the social life I was looking for, if only one weekend a month.
@@cico9117 “China's population is too large, there are too…” is a common excuse for everything, including the current zero covid policy. (Because China’s population is too large, many people will die if zero Covid policy is not enforced.) Since the population is large, shouldn’t there be proportionally more teachers too? I believe the main reason why Chinese students tend not to ask questions or participate in class discussions is due to the Chinese culture. Confucius education system does not encourage (or even discourage) free thinking and critical thinking. Students are supposed to listen and not to question what the teachers and authority have to say. Passive learning is the norm.
@@sfsaam Ok look, I didn't say that China's large population is the reason why a zero covid policy needs to be enforced. Please don't make wrong assumptions about me. My previous comment was just for the current topic. I don't deny that one of the reasons Chinese students have been quiet is because of Chinese culture. What I wanted to say earlier was that China's large population is one of the things that determines how schools teach. Everyone wants more teachers, but where do you get them? Can you force more people to be teachers? That's a violation of human rights. We need to increase teachers' income and provide more compensation. The government needs to put more money into education, and even then we can't guarantee that we can have more teachers anytime soon. Young people are more looking to engage in IT-related jobs these days. We also need more money to develop the technology industry and many other industries. This is a slow process, not as simple as you say.
@@cryora That’s a huge rarity. The international Chinese students typically ignore EVERYONE else. I went to a university with an endless number of them. It was almost impressive how much they managed to avoid everyone else but their own. The fact that they interacted with you at all, let alone reached out to you on social media is pretty bizarre. The only explanation I can think of is that you were so socially awkward that they felt like you were one of their own. As an aside, school I mentioned was ranked very high but was also a “party school” and if you think attending a party school would automatically make you have a decent social network, you’re sorely mistaken. People were very social…with other social people. People would party…with other hardcore partygoers. I think you need to take accountability for your lack of social skills so you can begin to work on them instead of blaming your environment. The reason I’m going in so hard is because there were socially awkward people at this school who selected it just because they assumed it would make them more socially competent…it did not.
I am all for allowing international student openings in schools, but I have a really interesting, one to one, domestic to international student comparison that affected me personally. I applied and and was accepted to the University of California at San Francisco (UCSF) dental hygienist program to start in Fall 2003. I moved to SF that summer and was ready to begin when I got a letter that the dental hygiene program had been shut down. I was confused and looked into it. The dental hygiene program accepted only 20 students per year. The year that they discontinued the program, they also happened to open up exactly 20 INTERNATIONAL ONLY dental student admissions to the same school. International students have to pay enormous additional fees to attend the UC. I was really bummed that I missed out on this opportunity as a result of a blatant money grab by the UC system.
It's the same everywhere else in the world. International students get fucked in the ass financially for no reason other than institutions realising that people that can afford to study overseas necessarily have more money. It's the same for sports camps as well. Hope it worked out for you.
@@ashraile In Europe most schools are public so it's really cheap for international students but most of them are garbage compared to the natives. Our school barely apply any selection for international students for the sake of being able to appear in international rankings (I am French but this issue is widespread in Europe).
@@uwu_senpai So I see at the end of the day, schools are beholden to metrics like revenue or ranking and not metrics like student satisfaction and job placement rate 😒
@@georgebrantley776 I think it's hard to monetize student satisfaction and job placement rate. If you're a professor, would you like to get paid in student satisfaction instead of money ? Unless you do some sort of commission system where the professor get 10% salary of each student he taught, but only after the student start working. Such that the professor is incentivize to produce student with minimum of fluff and most useful knowledge in short as amount of time as possible. So both the professor and student incentive are align. Then capitalism will take care of rest. Coding bootcamp usually follow this structure, you don't pay the school until you get a job, the money is 33% of your job income. And if you didn't get a job with certain minimum amount of salary within one year after graduating, you don't have to pay tuition. The absolute amount of tuition is higher than other equivalent type of trade school/boot camp, but since the boot camp is taking on all the risk and align its incentive with student's. It's fine in that case. The boot camp does reserve the right to fire student if they didn't study and keep up their grade and their initial deposit is forfeit in that case. Imagine if regular university adopting this model, then the professor will have incentive to have to teach student as best as possible and as efficient as possible. Bad professor who can't teach will naturally have no % commission income to get from, and naturally be weed it out of system. Bad student who didn't study will get fired. While good professor can scale out their salary extremely fast. Imagine if each student gave 5% of their salary to professor as omission. Within 2 years, you effectively get 200% of a student salary passively. Good professor could probably be making a million each year depend on how long the commission period last.
@@ashraile yourcheapdate's point wasn't that international students "unfairly" pay more to attend the university. The point was that yourcheapdate was UNFAIRLY dropped in order to get more revenue from the international students.
I recently finished a Ph.D. and this video speaks a lot of truth. I had a lot of international friends personally as a natural born US citizen. I went out of my want to befriend them. But more often than not... there were social bubbles with the Chinese students especially having trouble breaking out of their own circles. There was a self-fulfilling prophecy in that they thought the native students had no interest in interacting with them, and the native students thought the international students wanted to keep to themselves so there was rarely a bridge building opportunity to fix that. When the school had a buddy system for 1st year grad students, that helped a little bit, but there were still issues.... But also... glad the video points out the fact that higher publication rate actually means LOWER quality teaching. It is stigmatized within some departments to have high teaching evaluations. I personally LOVED teaching, however, I had some nightmare experiences where a department actually tried to punish me for it. Healthcare Triage has a podcast that delves into issues within science itself that's perpetuating this issue, but it's within the culture of academia. Also, the number of publications doesn't speak to the quality of them... And if you've ever known a professor that loves research, rarely do they love teaching. Research professors see teaching as a waste of time and a necessary evil to simply keep the position. This sentiment has been stated by MULTIPLE people across MULTIPLE departments across MULTIPLE schools I have been at. This isn't the feeling of 1 or 2 anti-social people... it's the norm across academia. There are also professors with the mindset that students just want to be handed high grades without having to work for it... And yes... there are some of those students... but the majority I have worked with want the grade they've earned and want to work for that grade... And while I could launch into another discussion about how we put FAR too much emphasis on grades and success in ways that are detrimental, there are professors that ascribe this to all students, and their teaching style is very condescending. Students who usually show up to class want to actually get something out of that class. But when research is king... that's not professors behave. In an specific example, when I was a Ph.D student, another grad student went so far out of their way to avoid contact with students, we constantly had issues on testing days when all the discussion sections tested together, none of the students in this person's section knew her name. Because she never told them. And then her office hours were set at 8am on Monday morning (which often overlapped with other classes people were taking, and isn't a time people are going to show up if they don't have to.
I'm in my final year of bachelor's degree so I don't have as much experience as you, but I haven't encountered such a big proportion of professors who view teaching the way you describe (very accurately, btw: they are condescending, put zero effort into teaching and then call students lazy when they're unable to understand or remember their crappy course). In my experience they have been a minority thankfully, but they do plague higher education... I'm not sure how this problem could be solved though, because you can't really force someone to enjoy teaching.
@@juliee593 it really depends on the school you attend. You’re far more likely to run into professors who hate teaching at R1 institutions (bit research schools) though that also varies by state and department and major. When I was in Michigan and Kentucky, everyone in my department was fine teaching, but Texas and California…. Not so much. My ex-bro-in-law works in Florida where teaching is also looked down upon over research. I didn’t specialize in Org Com, but I always remember the most important lessons of my classes in it which are that company culture and attitudes are decided at the top, and those attitudes trickle down to everyone. However, as time moves moves forward, you see more and more policies to use teaching as punishment and hiring people who have disdain for teaching. If you went to a smaller school or state college, you likely had a much better experience as you had more lecturers teaching as opposed to research professors.
that's easy, from my undergraduate experience, White, Hispanic and African all love to play with the same race，that's common, why Asian have to play with other races？
As a student in a UK university, this video PERFECTLY matches the situation found here. The size of the bubble is growing by the day and professors themselves tell us that they aren't allowed to make requests like "raising the English level for the entry" since the University just shuts them down immediately. This is when they have to give interviews and spots to people who DO NOT speak or understand English. The same students you then have to work in a group with. I have had Indian, British, Spanish, Brazilian and all other kinds of nationals as friends, but literally only 1 Chinese, and it turns out he's the only one who bothered to learn some level of English instead of speaking mandarin at the back of the class and use only WeChat.
This was my experience, too, a few years ago. They form their own isolated cliques and are seldom seen outside of specific hours at specific courses. I'd seen and met people doing all sorts of courses and made many close friends, yet mainland Chinese where the only group of international students to never socialise.
@@bluehotdog2610 I'm not talking about going partying. I'm talking about introducing themselves and speaking to other people even about what goes on withing the course itself. Many of these things aid academic learning. I suspect it may be because accepted standards of English are lower for mainlanders than they are for Hong Kongers. It's an arrogant sense of wanting to attend in name only without integrating as a student. In other words, they should talk to others as they do with their mainland clique.
My friends told me a similar experience, she is still studying in the UK and was frequently teamed up with int student who knew little to no english. She told me abt this 1 indian guy who barely did any group work but still passed the class despite doing nothing.
I would have to disagree. at my university in the UK, I made a lot of great Chinese friends. Yes, they didn't make the first move and they often just stick to their comfort zones in their groups of Chinese people. But if you just make the first move or show your friendliness, they will warm up to you. That's my experience. It's the same as being a British student in a non-English speaking country. It's more comfortable to just stick with other English speaking internationals than cozy up to the native students.
As a Chinese international student in Canada since the age of 13, I agree it's mostly true. Also the reason why Chinese are usually by themselves is because of the language/culture barriers. You can hit it off with a person speaking the same language as you very quickly, and barely knowing a guy who is communicating with you in English for 6 months. The level of conversation between different cultures just doesn't go as deep, unless you are really trying. In the beginning I wanted to make some local friends, then I gave up after one year. It's not that I didn't want to. The kids talking to me found it awkward too, especially in high school when popularity is a thing. Entering University, many Chinese students are like what's stated in the video, first time in a foreign country. So it's much easier for them to find support and share common interests with other Chinese students. Now I am working in the UK (London) and 99% of my colleagues are non-Chinese; many of them not British either, such as Italians and South Americans. I found it much easier making friends with them because when both parties are not local, it's easier to be empathetic.
"social bubbles" you're not kidding, I've had a lot of trouble trying to work with chinese students. they tend to avoid me, and everyone else that isnt chinese. makes it very hard to finish group assignments.
@@windywendi That's more a people thing than Chinese thing. When I studied in China, the English-speaking int'l students isolated themselves in their group as well.
I studied in Germany and France. And I have seen a lot of chinese students. I always noticed that most of the time when they isolate, they just cant speak the language. Another thing is, they will most of the time never make the first step. If you are talking to them first, they will talk to you like there is no morning
@@Nadox15 I think these Chinese students just aren't sure if the locals are friendly to them. If you speak to them first, they assume you are friendly and talk to you more.
I TA'd at a top US Business School for my Master's and I can say that every aspect of this video is spot on! Roughly 40% of the student body was Chinese nationals, they barely spoke English and only hung out with other Chinese students. When I graded papers you could tell that most of them were struggling with the material as they had very limited capacity for English and most of the lectures they paid for services back home to translate them to mandarin for them. Interestingly, from my admittedly limited sample set, by far the best performing group in the student body was the Indian students. Their English was perfect, they performed very well on assignments and tests, and made great partners for group assignments!
When online learning becomes the norm, and it will, the Chinese students won't have to pretend they're integrating socially, or enjoying the buffet at Lucky Panda, or 16-hour flights. Likewise, the schools won't have to pretend they're teaching anything and just carry on cashing the checks. Everyone wins.
I'm a Chinese student. It is easy to understand why they don't speak English and hang out with Americans. Firstly, native speakers surely like to speak the first language, which is clearer to them, so they prefer to talk to Chinese. Secondly, xenophobia is serious. Especially, the recent two years as you can see. And the problem of Americans is they don't want to pay high tuition, so there will be someone willing to pay for it. The last point, it is hard to communicate with foreigners as Chinese because of different political attitudes. For the Chinese, if you don't get a job in the US, it doesn't matter just going back to China. However, Indians won't want to go back to India. Btw, I plan to go back as well after graduating.... The US is not really attractive; we just need its reputation to find a better job actually.
As someone who has attended university throughout the entire pandemic, my university is far from perfect even in the best of circumstances. In these times, many flawed systems have presented themselves. But even so, it’s *so* much better learning from an on site university course than from an online class. It continually surprises me when people say the pandemic has made them realise that there might be less need for classrooms in the future. If anything, I’ve learned the opposite. Even though we do have the technology, the experience is so much worse for a lot of students.
I’m one of those people who likes learning online rather than offline. It’s all up to preference to be honest. I’ve been at a large university here in America and when I was on campus, I realized my professors weren’t really doing the best job at teaching me where I could self study. My grades went up 20%. So yeah I think making it an option for some is nice
Agreed with both replies, it really depends on the subject. If you are majoring in computer science then it is better to have online class, but for major that require on site laboratory it would be better to have a on site class
@@dhan1001 having taken one computer science class online and two in person, I much prefer in person. Being able to quickly and easily ask other people for help is really useful and much harder to do online. Also, teachers tend to use PowerPoint when lecturing online and it’s much harder to follow and take notes than someone in person writing on a blackboard.
I attended Goshen College and many people said I should have gone to a big state school instead. I appreciated the lower teacher student ratio. It felt more intimate and creative. Some professors even held classes in their homes. I wanted that personal feel rather than getting lost in a crowd.
Wow, never heard of that before. But wouldn't it bring logistical problems to students to go to their professors' homes regularly (unless they have in-campus housing)?
@@Gabsboy123 most professors lived walking distance from campus. And all students were required to live on campus, so it was not an issue. I only know of a handful of professors who did that, but they made sure people could get to classes. There were even campus cars that could’ve rented by students for free for classes that had labs outside at a nature preserve off campus. Logistics at a smaller institution were pretty easy. I doubt that could be done easily at a big school.
Classic case of the principal-agent problem. Considering the 2008 crisis that spurred the hunt for international students was also majorly influenced by the principal-agent problem (including conflict of interest on the side of rating agencies), bullshit never changes.
We are seeing all this because of the Gaokao as there are not interviews, extra curriculum etc.... but in other countries things are also like this. In Portugal for example the ''Gaokao'' of here will be 50-100% of your enterance in any University of the country and still we did not have this kind of preassure, I think it comes to Chinese Competitiveness
Chinese Canadian here: We… also deal with this problem, and coming from what’s a ok but not great school, I’d say about 75% of my imported classmates had serious problems with the language alone (and about 90% threw an ungodly amount of money at expensive stuff). Also: Google is banned in china. They probably use Baidu.
@@Ornobz In my experience some people go around the problem by having their children attend Canadian high school (maybe 50 out of my 220 student graduating class were in this boat). It is certainly expensive, but it generally allows a student to dodge the more difficult exams (plus, Canadian high schools can also be dodged by paying even more money- private schools are a joke, but the government doesn’t crack down on them). The end result: out of maybe 40-50 “imported” students about 5-6 could speak English fluently (in my experience, all of them are staying in an English-speaking country- one is doing a Graduate degree in London). However, all of them got into university somehow despite their English deficencies. Edit- Spelling error.
@@OrnobzThe thing is that a decent IELTS score doesn't really translate into being very good at english. The test is standardised, most people memorise volcab, exemplar essays and rehearse oral exams, in order to pass. I've seen students at my school (intl school in Shanghai) who can achieve 7.0 on IELTS or 100+ on TOEFL but still get a D in the english course (which is more about english literature but still) Just because they know how to pass the test doesn't really translate into being able to communicate or even feeling comfortable to communicate.
@@spookyghostwriter3110 If they can graduate from a 4 year Canadian high school, that still isn't enough to indicate their English level? Even though they can dodge the IELTS, isn't passing 4 years of English classes in high school more difficult than passing the IELTS?
@@joannaxuan4265 True. I am a graduate student here in the US that has a cut-off for TOEFL but many Chinese students (along with a few Indian and Pakistani students) have to take additional English classes to be qualified for a Teaching Assistantship
I am an international student from Thailand. The situation is a bit diffraction from China, but South East Asia is also another group of international students boost for universities especially for Australia. Rankings feedback loop is something I wish there can a better classification system then assigning numbers. Fun fact, universities nowadays offer you a chance to take course from other university in the same city, doesn’t matter if lower or higher rankings. Ultimately I think the best way to select the right university is to ask you yourself what you interested in and what city or country suits that interested the most. Ranking or popularity are still somewhat ok to look at but dont take it too seriously.
I actually fall into the category very well. I was terrible at high school study and went to international school to escape Gaokao. To be honest, at the age of 15 when i was in high school. I didn’t realize how important Gaokao is to my life and luckily i was able to go to US to study. Gaokao won’t determine what your future life would be but would have tremendous impact on the first job you could get. When i was applying to school, it actually didn’t went well because of my language test score and GPA but luckily I was able to go to a public school ranked closing to 100. And indeed, the USNEWS and QS ranking are the most important factor that i consider. In my sophomore year, i transferred into another public school because again it ranks around 50 so which in my mind was a better school. My freshman year GPA was less than 3.0 but I managed to 3.3 in the sophomore year when i realized how i did matters. After four years of study, i graduated with distinction. Then i went to an Ivy League school for graduate study. Now i worked at one of the top firm in Shanghai which i would never had this chance if I took Gaokao. Study abroad to me has some major advantages. The first one obviously is escaping the population pressure and Gaokao is one of the key to maintain fairness. Secondly, It gives people like me who like to play at a young age and don’t know the importance of study a second chance. To many other people who came from 3rd or 4th tier cities means more, usually when they work in China, they would go to 1st tier cities like Shanghai, Beijing, and Shenzhen. The intensity of the these cities are high causing finding jobs tremendously hard. Also, buying an apartment at these cities are very close to buying one in NYC whereas you earn a lot less money in cities like Shanghai. Thus studying abroad offers these people chances to live a life in major cities with opportunities but at the same time with less pressure comparing to living in Shanghai. Though my life changed due to this opportunity, i also see many others still suffer from college and went home without any job offerings. So i would say the real opportunities is at your hands. Also, although rankings are flawed but remember this is also the only source for many leading Chinese companies to hire graduates, that’s why ranking is such important.
Your experience was very enlightening for me. From this, you could conclude that the Western universities though faulted with profit incentives offer a very fair chance at a higher education if one is willing to strive for it whereas the Gaokao is perhaps the root of the problem by limiting the opportunities to students who might not take school serious while they are still young and naïve.
@@daivdsmith3746 A very fair chance, indeed. But only for students whose parents can pay multiple times the tuition than local students, who can afford their kids' housing, grocery, and potential a BMW for their kids. That is something more like a treat for the rich. Not all students are rich. that is why GaoKao, which does not need you to hire a middle man, to "pay" for your volunteer exp, does not need you to have a "reference letter ", and does not need you to pay anything for kayaking, golfing, piano, violin to write your personal statement, is fair in CN.
This video is SO cathartic. I attended the disgrace of a university known as "The National University of Singapore" a school ranked 9th in the world, yet every single other college I've attended in the West has been orders of magnitude superior. NUS "Engineering" is a pitiful pathetic excuse of pure rote learning, close to zero project and lab work and final exams worth 80% of the grades and classes with 200+ students to 1 professor in lectures, with some rubbish excuse for a TA, often a china student, who can't even speak proper English in the "tutorials". To put things into perspective, I took a summer school at the University of Alaska that is ranked 500+++ in the world, and it was vastly better than anything singapore has to offer. Another factor that rankings are inaccurate about is the graduate employability factor. In the US each school has to compete with hundreds if not thousands of others. In a place like singapore, there are 3 main universities. Big surprise that the graduates are employed when there is basically zero competition. Thankyou so much for calling out NTU.
@@w2385-i2s no shade, but it’s naive and kind of narrow-minded to think that the US and UK are the only countries that can provide education in “proper English”
@@fsantos4199 Well Singapore has been a trade/port city for many many decades, not to mention the close ties to the British. Everyone there can speak English and are very internationally minded so it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a decent level of English, suitable for a country that does business with the world. Especially given the rankings.
Bro you are not from NUS, are you? Zero competition? LMAO. NUS and NTU are the most academically competitive place in the world. The mugging culture is intense
@@w2385-i2s yeah. But English is Singapore’s official language and many ppl’s first language. Also if the teaching language is English, professors and TAs should have some level of proficiency?
I study at NYU Shanghai... and I can see on basically everyone around me how important the rankings are. It is like a game, only your life depends on it. Both students and parents calculating whether their kid should go study abroad or go to the best unis in China looking at their Gaokao, our students looking at NYU Shanghai's rating in China worried it is not famous enough to land them a decent job... It is crazy and scary at the same time.
@@_ashmason007 You don't really belive capitalism can last that long do you? China can not escape the problems inherit in the Imperialist way of life by calling it Socialism with Chinese characteristics. You don't escape the problems of capitalism by putting a so called communist party in charge.
@@_ashmason007 Its the educated middle class that identifies most with the promise of a meritocracy created by capitalism. At the same time the spread of world culture and ideas undermines all the promise of a capitalism in world crisis. For those left behind in the dog eat dog scramble called capitalism are not without culture or intelligence.
I’m glad my country doesn’t have such a competitive system. Here everyone chooses whatever uni they like. If its public you can just enroll and start attending classes, and if it’s private it’s basically the same but you have to pay. A long time ago, public universities used to have admission tests, but they were switched for a “basic common cycle”, that’s basically a full year that prepares you for the actual university, where you review contents from high school (plus learn new ones). There are classes that are common to all students from every faculty and degree, but other classes depend on what degree you are following (so if you enrolled into medicine you will have “introduction to biophysics”, but an engineering student will have algebra and regular physics) This admission thing was changed because it was unfair. Since there are people who can afford private classes to take the exams but some other people can’t. So they are basically teaching you in university what you would need to know to begin the actual degree, therefore, everyone gets to study at university regardless of what high school they went or if they can or can’t afford private tutoring. And if you are already prepared you can just take the tests and begin sooner, you aren’t forced to attend the classes, it’s totally up to you.
I can't imagine having a fair system, like when you live in countries like China, it destroys you. You cannot imagine living in a non corrupt decent country. Literally. All i can think of is test scores. That's it. That's your entire childhood and adolescence. No memories nothing. And the depression and fear seizing you once you don't get lucky or aren't smart enough to get into a good or even decent college. Some employers don't even bother coming to the bad or low ranked colleges bc the competition is that bad
In fact, universities in China are enrolling an increasing number of postgraduate students. The supply of postgraduate programs applicants is also exploding. I don't think it's because students choose postgraduate programs out of interest. It's just a lot of pressure out there in the job market for them to get a higher degree before they can get a job they are happy with.
I love the research methodology in the video, but I can’t entirely agree with the conclusions as a Chinese. The cycle of school rankings will continue for some time. First, the overall number of international students in China is unlikely to decline significantly in recent years; the decline in the number of US Chinese international students is only an exception to this trend. Due to China's official propaganda and folk ideas, many Chinese students study science and engineering at universities. However, due to the Sino-US tension, the US has rejected many visa applications for these students, which has raised students' concerns about certainty after their admissions. The security in the US and its performance in the COVID-19 pandemic do have an impact; China’s foreign propaganda is not as significant as the video suggests - as long as you are rich enough, it is safe to study in any country. If you don't go to the US, then choose another country - the UK and Australia have had more Chinese students in the past two years. Second, increased competition in China still encourages more families to study abroad. The video mentions China's "Zhongkao" and "Gaokao", but we also have a higher-level national examination: "Kaoyan" (Graduate School Entrance Examination). Except for a small number of outstanding students who can go to graduate school without taking this exam, the remaining who wish to further their studies must take it. But the competition for graduate school is more intense than the gaokao: only about 13% of candidates succeed. Despite the difficulties of further education, Chinese students often have to have a postgraduate degree to get a decent job. As the Chinese are "buying" a master's degree in the end, because foreign universities use applications for admission, studying abroad basically can secure a place in a certain university. In addition, the losers in the previous brutal competition will also choose to study abroad as their plan B. Finally, while I don't know what's happening elsewhere globally, school ranking is an easy-to-use tool in China. While Chinese are happy to cite rankings to gain "face" for themselves, employers and government agencies are also happy to use school rankings as a reference: a person who graduated from a QS50 school has the opportunity to receive the same treatment as a graduate of China's first-class universities - although it is much more difficult to enter a first-class Chinese university through the "Gaokao" and "Kaoyan". The school rankings are a banquet where everyone is drunk and dreaming. As long as human beings desire to compare, we can't get rid of various rankings.
Don’t forget all the anti-Asian hate crimes in the past 2 years where people of Asian descent were killed, assaulted, robbed, or insulted. In the past few days alone, there’s been 5 stabbings and 1 hammer attack on Asians already.
@@tre4993 Indeed, hate crimes against Asians are increasing. But I think it would not block the majority of Chinese families because the overall rate of crimes that cause actual injuries and property loss is still low. So many people just believe it won't happen to them. In comparison, an easy-to-get master's degree is assured.
Small correction: you can get bonus points on your gaokao if you're sufficiently good at something (drawing, running, etc.) My wife's aunt paid for her daughter (my wife's cousin) to receive after-school painting lessons in the hopes of qualifying for the extra points. Unfortunately her painting didn't quite make the mark, so she didn't get any bonus points on the gaokao.
Don't you think that system of yours is flawed? One shot at a test that determines your whole professional life? That's counter-productive and cruel, in my opinion.
@@holocene2164 I'm a Chinese-American, so it's not really my system. Personally I don't think it's great. I can understand *why* they're doing it, though. People say it's less important on what you know than who you know, and that's 10 times more true in the PRC than anywhere else. Theoretically it's supposed to be a great equalizer. Doesn't work out that way...but it's not like you can only take the test once. It's once a year, but if you do poorly you can take a year to study and then try again. My sister in law did that.
@@holocene2164 It's definitely flawed, and everyone in China knows this fact. They have been trying to redesign gaokao system for a long time, but you know redesign a system of this scale takes time and trials (there are areas using different experimental gaokao), so for the time being students still have only one way out right now.
@@holocene2164 Annual nationwide standardized entrance exams are a very common thing. Neighbouring South Korea also does it, as do dozens of other countries worldwide. Meanwhile the alternative used in the US has its own issues, as it's been extensively shown to be highly unfair i.e. it favors the rich heavily.
Ten years ago I got accepted to the oldest, most prestigeous and best ranked university in the country. My department was of a very low quality. There were old and wrong information on the webside, the online information system did not work properly, teachers varied in quality, they were often late or even skipped the classes, the study plan had flaws and student did not have anyone to ask for help. It was a mess. I was desperate. I was not able to finish and I quitted. I saw it as my huge failiure. Three years ago, I applied again, I got accepted to the same university to the same department, and this time, everything was great. All the problems were fixed, the bad teachers fired, quality of teaching improved massivelly and we have amazing support from the teachers and the staff. I am finishing my bacheor degree just now. What I am trying to say is that any ranking, any single number about the quality of the university can't say anything about the quality of your department. And it is your department - not the rest of the university - what determines the quality of education and treatment of students.
As an international student I was super upset when I had to go to a "lesser" ranked school as compared to a higher ranked school. But now that I'm a doemstic student at the same lesser ranked school, I'm really happy I'm at this school. There is so much more that goes into choosing a university than mere rankings.
I'm learning Chinese and I have several Chinese language partners to practice with. They told me that the past 4-5 years, there's been a huge shift where Chinese companies are more in favor of hiring local grad students than an overseas educated fresh grad. They found that local grads are more driven to succeed and have more essential basic skills to start their career. Of course, those who graduated in the top 20-25 world ranking universities are still favored as well.
True. But also more the result of local grads knowing how to navigate the local system and having a few years ahead of non-local grads to build out their own network locally. Chinese companies are very different from overseas companies…
Most of the Chinese international students at these overseas universities aren't proficient enough in English so instead they throw money at someone to write their essays/do their homework. Same students who drive lambos and maseratis and park next to red curbs in front of the university.
@@Chris-qh5tz I know what you mean tho I am not from China but from foreign's perspective of view it is really getting bad that most of us are being naive with grades now than value it's sad that we're taking this initaltive as a goal.
If they have political ties to the party, family connection, or come from elite wealthy background, they still get top or favorable jobs after they get their degree from outside of China.
As someone who is an undergrad at a very, very prestigious university, I can confirm that the actual student experience is dreadful, teaching is a nightmare and the dropout rate is enormous. I really wish I'd gone to a less prestigious but more fun uni, and I'm definitely frustrated at myself for letting rankings and reputation play such a big role in choosing my university.
Different ppl thrive under different environments, I am the opposite of you, not everyone is suited for intense competition and expedition, some people can push themselves good enough even under “peaceful” environment, not me lol
I do not know how far you are in your education or the number of grants you received, but these people do not deserve your sweat. If it is in your power, you're young and an adult. You could leave. No one cares about where you went to undergrad anymore especially if you're heading into a career field with a long road of study.
@@elizabethh5022 LMAO nevermind, I thought you were in America because of the video. There are too many good state schools with good connections for any reasonable employer to care. I'm not sure about the U.K. but I'm assuming Oxford/Cambridge must have more weight due to the size. Girl, good luck.
The pressure to get into a good school is so intense that in my community college; an administrator and I witnessed two Chinese students distributing pre-filled scantrons and exams to their friends. The issue was brought up (with video evidence) to the school Dean, only to be shot down because in the Dean's words: 'we need their money'. Academia died for me that day. All of these students went on unpunished and got full rides to schools like UCLA and Berkeley.
@@ickebins6948 the truth is there will always be enough people to do the "normal" jobs. It's whether the normal jobs have a good salary to make them worth doing.
@@daivdsmith3746 The "truth" is, thats already not true anymore... Atleast where I live... There are a lot of good paying jobs, nobody is qualified for anymore.
I'm from NTU Singapore. A faculty had a 80% reduction in education budget and the money was routed to research. This happened around the time when NTU's skyrocket to top 20 in the world for that faculty. Education got worse, much worse.
OMG! videos like this are much needed. Being an international student in Canada, UK and Poland in last 5 years, I have seen this and been through it. I exactly did found these schools how this video has mentioned and experienced the same less integratation with locals and over charged as stated. I truly believe if we will something to keep us consistent and motivated to do study- we do not need these universities.
I'm an international student in the master's program in one of the US top universities but I'm not from China. In 2021, all American students took classes online, and international students had to take classes in person to keep their visas. So my classes were me... and 12 Chinese students. I like to talk during classes, and I try to make sure that my English is good enough to speak in a class on the same level as native speakers. One of my goals for this education is to get my English to a level close to native speakers. But students from China, they couldn't care less about classes, they'd just come, spend 2 hours during something online and leave. They only cared what grade they were going to get for their papers. I haven't heard most of them speak English at all, they'd come to a class in their groups, and they leave the class in same groups. And most of them are barely able to speak English at all, like one guy literally took a whole minute to say a pretty simple short sentence word by word. Worst of all, they all were 22-23 yo, and they actually had no idea why they needed a master's program at all. They just come here because their parents want them to have a nice diploma, a piece of paper with a cool school name instead of knowledge. So of course they look at ratings, because all they ultimately need are status and a nice line on a resume, not real knowledge, experience and professionalism. The fact that American colleges exploit this demamd for a pretty piece of paper is moronic, it really drops the education quality for all those, who come for education, not just a diploma. But really the problem is that the US has become an educational and prestige colony for Chinese parents, who don't appreciate the value of education and knowledge
Your idea of gaining knowledge from master's Program is ridiculous. Most knowledge you leant during undergrad and post-grad wont be used at all. you really need to find a new argument.
US schools are better overall. It's not the fault of the school that students don't learn English or spend their time studying. Most schools require an 80 or higher on the TOEFL to even be considered for admission. There are guardrails. But wealthy Chinese Families circumvent guardrails by paying off testing centers and doing other shady shit. Despite this, a committed student who comes to learn, takes the time to form connections with native students, and strives to excel, will get a much higher quality of education here than they could in their own countries.
I taught at a college program in China that was for students that were going to university overseas. They *had* to go overseas because in order to study in this program, they had to drop out of Chinese school and did not take the gaokao. Before enrolling in the school, parents are sat down in the auditorium and told they need to have close to half a million dollars to even start between tuitions, flights and visas. Running out of money midway would be a disaster. The school also had a very robust college counseling program that advised students on which ones to apply to and helped with that program. It was a tug of war at times because we were accredited and did not write essays for students or allow cheating on GCSE and A level exams. Parents didn’t always understand our unwillingness to ‘help’ in ways that are considered cheating and we wouldn’t send college essays known to be bought. Our students did very well on exams and outside inspectors regularly observed the exams process because the scores raised suspicion. The school also gathered data on students’ success overseas after finishing the program. The biggest challenge to Chinese students going to the US and similar places with Liberal Arts required courses, humanities classes were often the ones causing Chinese students to fail. Some of those parents that were warned and steered to UK universities or other programs that don’t have these courses would resist based on prestige. (Oxford and Cambridge excluded.) Most parents said they would rather have their kids be accepted and fail out of a prestigious school rather than finish at a mid level school. These students from wealthy families often fell outside many of the rules in China, so expecting to be able to pay for success makes sense. Our head of school was a member of the PRC’s political party and also illegally held a second passport along with her kids. (Dual citizenship is not allowed in China.) One student’s whole school presentation was about how to bypass China’s internet firewall and nobody even blinked. The recent banning of tutoring centers in China cuts the rising middle class out of overseas education, almost entirely. It is seen as a way of keeping control in the country.
Uh. . . Banning tutoring companies is nothing but a fairer opportunity for poor families. Now the teaching ability of many European and American universities is also questioned. There are also fewer and fewer prestigious overseas schools that are recognized.
The part you said about them being steered to the uk is so true. I live by a uni accommodation district in london and 90% of the students I see are native East Asian students. I’m assuming most of them go to the top unis like kings, ucl and imperial
Malcolm Gladwell did a piece on this for his Revisionist History podcast series. He basically reached the same conclusions about the university ranking system. Based on your analysis, I don't think he went nearly far enough.
A fellow listener 😊 I recommend these episodes particularly because Gladwell came at it from a much less 'scientific data analysis'aproach yet came to a very similar conclusion.
In Sweden, schools aren't allowed to make money. There are private schools but if I understand it correctly they can only stuff their pockets with X amount each year.
I think charted schools in the US are not allowed to make money either cause they receive government funding but through stuff like hiring consultants for managing the school and stuff through a company which is owned by them they can indirectly make money
0:29: 🎓 Each year, millions of high school graduates face the challenge of choosing a college without sufficient information. 3:16: 📚 The education system in Hong Kong and the US is influenced by government funding and economic conditions. 7:20: 🎓 Rankings of American colleges are unreliable and misleading, especially for Chinese international students. 9:51: 📚 International students contribute significantly to the rankings of US colleges, but often struggle with language barriers and social isolation. 13:07: 😡 Rankings are flawed and primarily measure reputation rather than research quality. 16:24: 🎓 Rankings in education institutions create a harmful cycle of exploitation and deception. 19:40: 💡 The safety of international students in American schools is a major concern and may disrupt the higher education system. Recap by Tammy AI
I paid no attention to college rankings when picking my school. I was solely concerned with what kind of Film/Video production program they offered, how much it would cost, and what kind of experience I would get on campus. I ended up with Western Michigan University after the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor) rejected me. Only now do I realize what college rankings are, and thankfully they didn't play any part in my college search.
To be fair, UofM is a really good school and it isn’t very pricy if you’re in-state. I am in the middle of applying for PhD programs, and after visiting some other high-ranking universities, Michigan really seems to deserve their spot, which is very impressive since they’re public and very open to in-state applicants. If you only plan on getting a bachelors however, it doesn’t really seem to make a difference between most universities.
I also assessed only the particular department I would be studying in before choosing my school. I thought that this kind of thing would be obvious to people, but apparently not.
@@avinashtyagi2 I compared what the programs actually taught you and what they focused on. WMU has a more broad major, which I like. Of course I have to have a minor, so I went with an audio technical minor. I want to learn about digital audio and perhaps digital music creation.
@@offbeat4772 UofM is definitely a good school, no doubt. It is just god awful hard to get into. I made he mistake of sending my SAT score. I really should have not sent it because they were test optional, and by sending it I think I screwed myself over. Oh well.
@@patricialongo5746 LoL. One of the desired skills of a teacher is how to present knowledge that "sinks-in", not that causes eyes to "glaze-over". Practicing medicine is not the same as teaching. Maybe you don't want to be cut up by a doctor who is "practicing" on you, but is expressing a real skill? Never mind that failure is the best teacher, that's just practice anyway.
Graduate instructors are the most passionate people ever in teaching in the US. They are paid poverty level wages for those classes because they don't have PhD and don't contribute to research rankings. If they have a master and teaches part time at your college, that means they are so passionate with their job that they accept those piss poor wage just to be able to teach students. I go to a private university with $54k tuition (luckily i have financial aid), which accounts to 1.8k/credit. One course at my school is 3-4 credits, so that means 1 student pays 5.4k - 7.2k per class. The graduate instructor for the course is paid 3-4k/class. Literally less than what 1 full-pay student paid to the school.
3:20 - You say the second highest "concentration", but this is not true. They have the second highest raw quantity of billionaires, but concentration implies quantity per unit, in this case population. When you adjust for population size, you'll find that several counties, such as the United States and Germany, have a greater concentration of billionaires.
He did not say "per population", he was talking about "per country" as the chart he showed implies. He is just using different "units" than you are. He is right and you are right.
@@PsYKoTx I think it's fair to point out that China wouldn't do as well with 'per capita' while the author of the video chose to use the 'per country' number to comment on China being high while ironically communist
@@Polo004xD There definitely is a thick layer of irony, but as OP pointed out, it's not due to the concentration of billionaires living in the country. The irony comes in regarding how capitalist these constrained yet still somewhat laissez-faire "special economic zones" in China like HK and Shenzhen can be that would encourage the creation of that many billionaires despite the CCP's eternal cursing upon them. There were many changes that took place since Deng Xiaoping's era back in the 80s, but he's honored to this day for revolutionizing the country's approach to economics despite still intending for an end goal of a communistic society. Whether or not that end goal is still feasible is another story, but China has always been a country full of contradictions. Heck, the Chinese word for "contradiction" is commonly found in so many Eastern countries' languages as well, since it's renowned for having origins in an ancient Chinese folk tale.
I remember in the 90s hearing that U of Michigan Ann Arbor (main Campus) had to quickly open up another dorm and admit more MI students because they accidentally admitted too many foreign students and were at risk of loosing their State University standing and the money that it represents.
Bravo! Thank you for talking about this! I was a part of this "game" while I lived and worked in Shenzhen for almost five years. There are so many horror stories and examples I could share, but I'll just pick this one from the last "English Training Center" that I worked at. During the summer break (which is not a break for students at all) this centre got a lot of new demo students, which us the teachers managed to get them interested in the courses. The parents had to pay a semester in advance, as is usual there. Some of the lessons, "VIP", or one-to-one were about $150 per hour, yet the quality of the knowledge wasn't really there. Old classrooms, old books, old windows XP PCs and young foreign non-native teachers without experience (which would often be presented as Canadian to the rich Chinese parents). So, the new students were plentiful that year, yet the manager was late with two month's salaries, telling us he'll get it all sorted soon. He sorted it by disappearing, probably off to Malaysia with millions of RMB of the teachers salaries and parents fees. I personally couldn't do anything as I was working on some shady business permit, not a legal, working visa. The lies they told to the parents and the kids were horrifying, and I had so many clashes with the management and the local staff every time they tried to work "around me". The last year's crackdown made a big change in this swindling sector and now everything's gone online. Next, I assume the Chinese banks will make it impossible to pay someone electronically.
yes!! As a 16 years old Chinese student in Guangdong provice, I have to say you are right. the goverment is pushing the "double reduction policy", but to be honest ,i don't kown what it plays a substantial role.
@@friescheney1629 They solve one problem, while creating a new one. Gaokao was supposed to equalise everyone, to have a fair chance, but families that had more money could afford additional tutoring. For me, the biggest issue is the mental health of students, not just your age, but even younger students (like 11) develop burnout, fatigue and anxiety... I'm sure you can also share many of these horror stories.
@@Noukz37 Yes! I have 100 days left to take the Chinese senior high school entrance examination. I often feel mentally unwell. My cervical spine is sore from doing homework and playing with the computer. I have more than 300 degrees of myopia. I don’t know how much significance that what I have learned to improve myself. maybe i have some grammer mistakes , but forgive me you should understand , above text is writeen by an 16 years old Chinese student.
@@friescheney1629 Your English is great, trust me. 🙂 Honestly, I don't think a lot of knowledge will remain, and be useful to you later in life. It will be useful to get into a Uni that you want. But there is life AFTER University haha Most parents don't think about that, and just focus on their children's schooling. You try to preserve your physical and mental health, that's most important. Success will come! You might even end up having a job you didn't go to school for at all and be very happy and successful, life is full of surprises! 🌹
I am currently a teaching fellow in a private university in Southeast Asia. If I show this video to my colleagues or fellow academicians, they will get seizures and quickly dismiss the content. I, however, agree with the video about rankings and how it does not define the university quality and how research is being made just to chase rankings but not producing quality output. I see many research papers being made just for that and ended up collecting dust and not making any impact (or very little, if any) to the society. Not to mention, research grants funding are getting tighter and in a lot of cases, cronyism and favouritism ruins the institution.
As long as the future employers still emphasize ranking, this game will never stop..(Even though as a Chinese student I feel that you are talking exactly the point)
Yeah this is what people fail to understand. It is not that the students or the parents don’t know that ranking is flawed and is not a testament for quality, but they know that companies and recruiters in general are give top priority to graduates from these universities. If your only chance at a job is when your graduate from the high ranked universities, you will certainly try to go to them.
@Naikomi dude that's not the real case... uni ranking systems are embbed in many ways, like tier-1 city hukou requirements, some local finance firms' hr systems. It is written on the paper that only those grads from QS top 50 uni (just an example) are qualified to apply.
I used to be so worried about choosing a college since I knew I had no chance getting into universities. I was worried about working in restaurants for the rest of my educational years to pay rent and school. But I find myself in a position as a drafter in a tech company. It’s all thanks to a class I took in high school. I’m now moving to higher positions and I’m barely going into one year of work experience.. I’m saying this to help encourage students here to never give up and take classes that really are going to matter.. engineering is the future and the most payed career out there. If you’re good at a subject, try applying as a tutor. I did that and I was tutoring k-12 kids with basic math/ algebra. There’s so many opportunities out there but you just gotta get out there and try it. Experience is the best teacher.
European unis are affordable, split their research into separate institutes, don't focus on international students and aren't part of this alumni craze or building crazy gyms for their ads. makes them look terrible in rankings, but great irl.
Exactly. If you look at rankings, you may believe that only anglosphere countries have nice unis, there's almost no european, japanese, south-korean... only anglo countries.
@@TheLSales There are many universities from UK and Switzerland in ranking. But not any universities form Germany, Norway, Sewden, etc. It seems like rankings are only for private universities trying to make money.
European unis barely invest in research compared to American. Had so many European professors that came because their salary would double and they would also get more funding .
I was aware of some of my school's ranks when I had to start applications, but the way I decided was just by one stat. The university campus was around the other side of the block of my high school campus. Less than 5 minutes by foot. Another advantage of being a local.
As a Hong Kong student studied in UK from the age of 14 to 21 during 90's, did GSSE, A-level, and Bachelor degree. I found some of my Hong Kong fellows were not even try hard on their studies, horrible exam results. But the school still kept them, because of much higher tuition fee. I felt dismayed that most Hong Kong people and Chinese not even bother to interact with non-Chinese, nor the British media, they are still doing this. The reason they felt their origin media feels "closer", interact with you own fellow countrymen is "closer". My brother accused me to parents that I tried to pretend as British, parents scolded me as "Don't ever try to do something silly!", you can see the mentality there.
@@kawangkwok5262 Human beings are tribal, we judged by looks. You can learn to be comfortable in UK, but there is nothing wrong with being around people who you feel comfortable with, and that's people who look like you and talk like you.
@@henli-rw5dw I do not agree with that. Probably in some other countries, it wasn't in UK. I met some guys from far South Korea, Vietnam, they got on with the mainstream so well. I take a wild guess that you may probably build that wall in your mind, and that should try to break this wall.
I am in 3rd year Cyber security course in Australia. All of what you said is true. It is all about money. I am from India and had 90k in tuition fees and I studied there for like year paid 30k and attended a total of 15 days for the year only practical for attendance and no lectures at all and still got 70 plus with minimal studying. And most of it was what I already learned back at home in grade 12. Then i changed the institution with less fees and all the study material was same. So there you have it, the economics of financial balancing by the international institutions minting money from students.
It's even worse for Chinese people. Not only does their exam basically determine where they can go but the college you go to is wayyy more important than in the west. The admission matters so much that you can effectively slack off after getting in a college as the college itself doesn't matter past getting in (you'll still pass) .
I had a young, clearly wealthy Chinese guy in class with me. He didn't try to work at all. He didn't participate in group assignments. He slacked off consistently, yet this was Community College in WA state. I never thought I'd see so many rich Chinese kids at my discount college. The school has a good reputation but still.
Yeah I'm currently attending a community college after attending "real" college for a few years and I'm surprised there are a lot of international students
The US Universities need not worry. The gap of chinese students will be fulfilled by Indian students. After 10 years the gap of Indian students will be fulfilled by Nigerian Students. As long as US keeps the America brand alive and well, the universities won't have to worry.
But that illustrates the second problem: The America brand is dying. China is openly hostile. Most Indians look to Europe or Canada for more affordable degrees, and India has started a massive education overhaul program which may see people choose to stay back home. Nigeria is still a few decades away from being able to fill the gap.
@@mvalthegamer2450 that new education program you talk about is gonna take at least a decade to be implemented fully and indians are more money saving type of people, so they'll go to Canada instead and after they get there PRs they will eventually move to the states. America Is Falling 🔶
Remember one side of the coin is the gaokao system and the enormous only-way-to-move-up pressure that comes with it. In the absence of such a structure, not many people don’t want to pay so much money to study abroad. South Korea has a somewhat similar exam system. Japanese system is more relaxed- universities are ranked in rough buckets rather than giving an illusion of precisely measured from the top to bottom.
China is different. China has decided to prevent domestic kleptocracy by admitting based on objective testing, which has pushed all its spoiled rich kids overseas. India is a lot less ideologically egalitarian and will probably just allow the kids of the rich and powerful to rule the best schools.
I was working on a scholarship as a teaching assistant at my local university. There was a Chinese student who seemed pretty smart, but had poor English skills. The class required a lot of writing. I was genuinely concerned about how the university allowed them to take the class without recognizing that they would need a foundation of basic writing skills.
@@sdash6242 Most good universities set their language bar to IELTS > 6 or its TOEFL equivalent. But many universities would accept students to their language preparation program (length varies from couple of weeks to one year with high tuitions) for those foreigner students fail to provide an adequate test result.
As long as he/she could pass the course, it should not be a problem. I mean, he chose to take the risk, it's his responsibility to face the consequences.
I can answer your question. Im a Taiwanese student that also studied abroad. When I was fresh off the boat, of course I mingled with the rich Chinese. They told me that they cheated the English proficiency test in order to get there, and then they continued cheating their assignments and papers. I was bribed to write their homework because I at least speak fluent English. I couldn't do the works out of my major so I asked them to give me some drafts, in English or in Chinese. I was surprised how these people even graduated middle school. A lot of them can't even write an essay in Chinese, because they also cheated through middle school, and it's easier to do then in the university. For the rich Chinese kids, the problem isn't just their English proficiency. I left that circle after making several local friends. Their culture is quite sick.
@@陳查理-c2c Interestingly, as a Chinese student, I have never met that type of Chinese students who you just mentioned. Birds of a feather flock together. I think the situation you described may not happen in a more competitive school. However, I'm happy for you for making the right decision to leave that group.
I am a retired professor who mostly taught STEM courses to graduate students, most of them from China. There is an even more fundamental problem with rankings. The right question is not “What is the best school?” but “What is the best school for me?” Very few 18 year old students have any way to answer that question. Even if they did have a lot of good information, some of the answer depends on what they want to do with their life, such as a career, and most of them have little idea about that.
it may be really hard for others outside china to imagine how insane gaokao can be for students. as reports shown, there are numbers of schools use literally military methods to regulate and educate students with zero relaxation--and for three years. they are living in prison and suffer tremendous mental pressure. i chose to the path of becoming an international student because my family can afford it but a lot they cannot even know what is G5 and ivy league. what's more, zhongkao is even more determining because half of students will be eliminated that they cannot attend high school but go to technical school which in china means you can only live at the bottom of the society for most of them.
Yeah. But now the CCP is shoving that dystopian shitshow on the rest of the world, by making everyone else compete with this shit. Fuck the CCP man. First they fuck over every single job that doesnt need a degree, and then they started some anti-muslim genocide. After that, they start 50 more trade wars, support Russia, enslave third world countries with colonial britain level contracts, and now end up fucking over every other countries education system, by forcing them to compete with the mfs militarily trained to finish exams.
From my experience, university education is largely a scam and i have 4 technical degrees and one humanities diploma. The reason most people take their time away from working as young adults to do at least one degree is to fullfill expectations of qualifying for and attaining professional or para-professional work when the degree is completed. In my case, this took four goes, because at least two were unfulfilled or not the right profession for me. I strongly suspect that many young adults emerge from universites with a degree, finding that thousands of their ilk are applying for a handful of jobs and after about a year of waiting on tables (for example) for a pittance of a wage and applying for handreds of jobs in a saturated market and going to a handful of dispiriting failed interveiws, that the young person (a year later) feels deep frustratration and low self-esteem after the brief high of graduation. This is because the economic system for degree-mania (by employers) is largely unattainable and untenable, making a lot of angry but well educated young adults. The Chinese, a people placing very high expectations on degrees making a future for prosperity and job satisfaction, are going to be equally disappointed and equally dissatified. Universities play on the hopes and expections of young people, and after the blood, sweat and tears or working hard to attain your degree, find a mirage in the desert. This is phase one of a social revolution when it is discovered that corruption will play it's part in shoe-horning a few lucky (and well lubricated and connected) graduates into a few strongly sort-after positions (this is happening in the West as well as China). When this scandal is discovered, then watch University campuses across all countries literally explode with rage.
Taking more time away from work only improves the health and life of that individual. They're scamming society and not being the sacrifice that workers are.
96% of all students at my Masters in Finance I studied in Chicago, were either Chinese or Indian like me. Drew similar conclusions to you, but wow you giving this perspective a lot of teeth with research, facts and anecdotes! And yes, still played the game...
I remember being more and more aware of this as i researched more for my future university in Europe. I had to because of my relatively unimpressive scores for A levels. However, my parents only cared about university fame, so they forced me to go to a local favorite instead of any of the lesser known universities in the list I compiled. In retrospect, I really should've gone abroad. From a student perspective, it was awful. Piss poor facilities and most importantly severe lack of opportunities
At my siter-in-law's graduation ceremony, the vice-chancellor (what we call university president or CEO or whatever) in his speech said that all the students should rate the school very well in student satisfaction surveys because it would increase the universities place in the rankings, thereby increasing the market value of their degree
Not in the US, but Australian universities suffer the same situation to an even larger degree. I went to a uni in Sydney at which more than half of the students were Chinese. The campus was a literal Chinatown. The uni did set a criterion of English proficiency at admission, but those below that criterion were still admitted and given an "English course" before the start of their degree. Those English courses simply became a new money grabber and the Chinese students were more than happy to pay for that. As anyone might imagine, there is no way a few months of an English course can lift anyone from basic conversational level to a competent academic writer. As a "solution", Chinese students commit massive plagiarisms. Ghost writing is a very profitable "occupation" if you are a Chinese students with good English writing skills.
You go UTS for sure. Im in year 12 considering to go there for Comp Sci. If you dont mind can you tell me of your experiences so far and the course youre taking
A language course prior to entry is just a scam regardless what langauage it is. Friend of mine went to taiwan. He barely has shit knowledge of chinese. Didnt last long and went home after a year. Despite getting the "chinese course"
I'm an international applicant from China, and I can assure the legitimacy of the crisis covered in the video, thank you for making this heard! It is such a struggle...
Any prospective student with a brain worth cultivating know that rankings cannot be relied upon. But then how else should students begin to research the best schools for them? Visit the schools personally? Write to the school asking why they should have the privilege of accepting you as a student? Ask friends and family? None of that is going to be pragmatic. You have to narrow down your choices and the rankings, as flawed as they are, can help you with that. But you do have to be smart to use the rankings, and as you correctly point out, criteria like number of citations are very misleading. And then there is the question: how to avoid the terrible schools that will take your money in exchange for worse than useless tuition? And there are many schools like this in the US and elsewhere. Can you equally ignore bad reputation as you ignore good reputation?
Good point. What people don't realize is that, despite misleading, the ranking system does provide some information and values for people with absolutely no other way to know. It is terrible, until you look at the alternatives. Weighing the choice between some information and no information, some information is always gonna be better. Yes, some of the metrics are intentionally created to be misleading and some come from money grabbing motives. But smart people are making conscious decisions about their futures by examining whatever information they can get their hands on.
The only other real method is to go online and find where students of that school talk about their experiences. Which, while it can cut through a lot of the BS, suffers from being highly incomplete information and the difficulty of sifting out the normal complaining and ideological crap from the actual information. Which I guess means that there really isn't any good way of knowing what college to go to.
TBH i read Google reviews 🤣 as silly as it sounds those reviews were written by actual students studying there, they mentioned that the Professors are very friendly and approachable, the Engineering course is focused on Practical and current industrial markets and they have ties to the big Industries so they suit their curriculum according to market demand, and thats why i chose my University for Engineering and can confirm those reviews. since almost all Universities are Free there is no crazy competition to get fake reviews. i havent even finished yet and have Job offers
I almost never comment but I did want to say that I toured a few of my prospective colleges and it was pretty easy for me to see by the tours which one fit me. 4 years later (with 0 student loans) and I’m proud to have my degree in aerospace engineering. Just gotta find the right one in person. Talking to (recent) alumni is a great way to get a feel for it too
I lived in China and took the GaoKao just to take it, before moving back to the US and going to college here. I basically did what I expected, near aced the Foreign language, science, and humanities portions; and did decently on everything except for Chinese Literature. Idk why this wasn't mentioned but the Kaoyan is even more competitive, and the GaoKao is almost near identical to what you are going to see on the SAT (Besides it being in Mandarin + 2 extra sections). Students are socially pressured to do amazing on this test which ultimately is not exactly the hardest test in the world. A lot of teachers in my school would literally teach about more advanced parts of the GaoKao (Especially the Science portion), and we would sometimes skip ahead of the fundamentals we should have been learning. By the time I came back to America and did enter college, I was basically missing fundamentals in Mathematics and Science, even though I could test out of the Pre-reqs with SAT scores, it didn't matter because I would have failed if I tried to take anything beyond calc2.
It may not be absolutely harder, but it sounds like more competitive due to much more people taking it and trying harder - since, as the video states, its score's weight is so high. But I agree on the rest, the focus on such exams make real education poorer overall.
The difficulty of the GaoKao is getting a perfect score (or close to it as possible). Every single point counts towards your ranking and can make the difference between a top university or lower tier. Millions are taking the test.
The point is that in China the gaokao is the ONLY metric that matters for college admissions, so the margin for error is very slim, whereas in the US, many schools are now making standardized tests optional.
w/ a huge population in china, do u necessarily think that it only matters if u pass the exam? no! there r students that have gone all lengths to do extra tutoring. sat n gaokao aint even close LMFAO
and also, now, GAOKAO is not necessarily the ONLY exam that matters. In ZHONGKAO (from junior to senior high), it becomes more and more important and even outshines GAOKAO. This is because education resources are allocated very unevenly among senior high schools. Only fifty percent of students can get into public senior high schools and the rest have to go to a private school (in China the case is that most private school is worse than public schools and only a small part of students could afford to go to international private high schools)
My high school biology teacher is nearly 50 years old. He always said that "all the knowledge you learn now will be useless in the future", "those who put you on the table to study are guilty" and "Chinese students are the hardest in the world, which is the purgatory of the world".😂 Now I think he is right.
High school teacher is not considered a successful role model in the society, how would you validate his statement and believe its right? I guess just being emotional
I went to a prestigious university, and agree that rankings have nothing to do with the undergraduate experience. As a result, I guided my nephew and niece towards a much better fit for their college education and experience.
While it's nice to hear some of the insider issues in colleges- I feel the greater problem got the back of the bus here. It's that colleges are private organizations. Therefore their number one goal is to increase revenue. Period. The purpose of society is to grow for the better. Education is a massive part of growing. It should be a right of every citizen to attend a college that focuses on their education as a #1 goal which means they need to be government funded, in full. With the exception that you can pay if you're unwilling to or previously failed to prove that you're intellectually and motivationally capable of covering the cost by giving back to your country in the long run. The whole point of government is to provide things like this. Our country fails because our politicians are corrupt. We pay our taxes for them to provide things like medical care, pharmaceutical needs, education, security, and other needs in special circumstances. That's the whole point. I'm glad people are beginning to wake up. But depressed at how long so many people were led to believe that taxes should be paid.... for what exactly lol? Meanwhile our poor and middle class citizens also pay for their healthcare, their state taxes, their meds which are price gouged thousands, and even tens of thousands above what's necessary. We've just setup so many generations of people to dedicate their lives to failing or trying to fix this infuriatingly broken system assuming they can even navigate their way through this chaotic fucking mess of a country.
Just letting you guys know, here in Vietnam things are pretty dang similar. Ever since one is born, one is expected to go to school 12 years, then take the National Graduate Test (similar to the Gaokao but less intense), and that's pretty much the only way to get into college or university. No extra curriculum, talents are often wasted and schoolers are usually depressed.
Omg, I am a Hongkonger, and this video also explained similar situation in Hong Kong. I once wondered, why HK's universities scored so high about international ratio in all uni rankings? Because our government treats Chinese students as "non-local" and boosted our intl. student ratio up to 40%up. In the years of their uni life, they seldom try to learn the local language (Cantonese) or culture, and have their own social bubble. Also, everything offered at universities in Hong Kong is conducted solely in English, and since papers written in English are much more cited than other language, this pushes HK's universities to some of the highest ranked in Asia. (Most top universities in Asia are not English-only, usually conducted in the combination of the local language and English.)
The "non-local" situation is good for ranking, and usually, NDS are likely to return back to China for employment. But the situation creates a problem in the PG studies. Those "non-locals" account for >50% of all PG students, which push the local to be some sort of minority. Most professors would only use Mandarin to communicate with them, which further discourages them to assimilate into the society.
They are there to study the professional knowledge and have no obligation to mix with you guys. Even if they are interested in the Canton culture or learning the dialect, traveling around the Guangdong Province would be a reasonably better option, since Guangdong culture would be more authentic than your 'local culture'. I believe mainland students do shop around in HK, explore local restaurants ... Most of them simply don't want to hang around with you peers, probably because what you're proud of aren't that fascinating.
I never thought about more research meaning less time teaching students. Being a great researcher does not mean you are great at communicating the knowledge. Doing research does cut down the amount of time you can spend helping students outside of class. I doubt Indiana Jones has a lot of office hours available.
That seems to be a part of it, but the other side is that when you're immersed every day in really arcane, esoteric research it can be really hard to explain basic concepts to incoming freshmen. Sure, you're working with really fancy plasma physics, but can you explain basic Newtonian physics anymore? You're researching really cool mathematics, but can you teach the basic calculus that engineers are going to be using in practice? And don't even get me started on what Publish or Perish has done to the quality of academic research, and research in general. I think there's a reason we haven't had a good Einstein in forty years. They don't survive in the endless politicking of grants. String theory needs to die, but it keeps bringing money in so it keeps getting larger and more convoluted.
I remembered saying the same thing about NTU back when I was studying there and it's rank rose and shot up. Glad to know I'm not the only one who felt this way.
Funny coincidence, this video popped up in my recommended right as I applied to an university. But I didn't really pay much mind to rankings, I think the more important things to me were proximity (because dealing with intense education is even harder when you're also dealing with trying to live on your own for the first time) and opinions of the students currently there (they know exactly how things work there and have no financial incentive to lie if it's bad). Now time to hope I made the right choice...
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College be lookin kinda sus
Fairness. The poor farmer's daughter and chief executive's son take the same exam, in the same room, at the same time. Unlike rest of the real world.
that's how everything should work.
in US, rich kid with good parent easily get into most prestigious college.
in China, smartest kid with passion get into most prestigious college.
that's big difference.
The Chinese students will be back without a doubt
i think this video should have chinese captions, for chinese students, just so they can get the idea
Idk anyway, i am nat american and this is not my problem... Have a nice day
The "focus on research means less focus on teaching" completely rings true. I am studying engineering and our current administration has spent the last four years pushing more research and enticing professors with huge research budgets, while us students get stuck with unresponsive, dispassionate teachers who think a powerpoint presentation alone will equate to a complex understanding of high level concepts.
Are you at Virginia Tech? That is the only college of which I know where you can major in General Engineering. All the other colleges will only allow you to major in a specific engineering field - mechanical, electrical, civil, chemical.
@@perfectsplit5515 Umm I fail to see where he mentioned "General Engineering"? He just stated that he's majoring in engineering, could be any of the sub-fields you named, doesn't have to be General Engineering only.
@@manswind3417 I wanted to know if he is studying collegiate General Engineering, or a specific engineering field. Usually, college students studying an engineering field will state which specific field it is.
After all its you who must learn it through textbooks and practice
Typically undergrad classes 'taught' by professors heavily involved in research means the classes are actually taught by teaching assistants - graduate level students studying under the professor.
If a university has a great reputation in a particular field of study, it's mostly the graduate education, not the undergrad, that earned the reputation.
I tutored high school kids for three years, and I can tell you that the stress of picking a college gets worse every year. Many kids pick their college based primarily on its rankings, and it's really tough to tell them how little it means. Outside of the top tier of schools, there's very little difference between what school you attend. But the message of "your college decides your future" still gets out there, so kids will pay top dollar to go somewhere they don't really want to go just because it's a few ranks higher. If you work hard in college and put yourself out there, you'll turn out just fine.
Thank you for putting this video out there. It shows how easily these rankings can be manipulated, and that it's better to use them as a very rough guideline than a strict ranking systems.
Haha, Imread that as ”i tortured school kids for three years”
The problem is that colleges carry reputation. Dunno about the US, but in my country the "college name" itself decides whether you'll get the job or not. Doesn't matter whether the college is actually good or not
@@N-methyl1phenylpropan-2-amine Yes, when you compare Harvard (a top school) and Montclair State (mid level), of course Harvard carries the reputation. But the difference between Tulane (upper level) and Towson (mid level) in a job interview isn't all too big. There's so many colleges in the USA, and most people never check the rankings after they turn 18. So after the top echelon of schools, no one even knows which ones are better or worse in these rankings.
@@vipa1737 aren’t those just safety schools then? I don’t think anybody cares about safety schools, they’re just there if you don’t get into a top 10/20.
High school kids don't have that critical thinking capacity. And even if they get high school doesn't teach that. Worst still, many parents don't care to help their kids beyond feeding them, so they are any help in university choice..
There was a big scandal about this in Australia years back. It was uncovered that big universities were sending recruiters to China and SE Asia and helping them with the visa process and that the language test they had to take was a joke. Then when these kids got to the universities, tutors (Aus version of class teachers) were pressured not to fail international kids no matter what, because doing so could dry up the stream of intl kids paying stupidly huge fees.
While this is happening the unis are paying less for actual professors to teach classes and are relying more on post-grad kids, while the number of administrative staff was ballooning.
Whole this was disgusting.
Fascinating example. More people need to hear it.
Universities are businesses and the academic side of it is a side hustle for them.
It's actually more than just that. In China there is a stereotype that students who go to Australia are rich and not hardworking because universities there are lowering their bars for more international students from year to year. It would ultimately hurt people's impressions on the schools in that country. I love Australia tho, my uncle emigrate there in the 90s.
Cool it with your Chinese racism ;P
@@jamescrock2213 He is talking about the Australian problem, chinese students arent the problem
sounds American
Just want to expand on the social bubble thing further. I’m Chinese and have been studying in Australia for 6 years, I get excellent grades, but I still can’t speak English confidently, and don’t have a single close local friend. Here’s why:
Chinese (and East Asian) culture has an emphasis on quietness, obedience, and humility, and I was considered too shy even by Chinese standards; it took me many years to learn how to socialise properly even in my native language. In English it’s a whole other thing: another (huge) set of rules to learn before you can comfortably produce the right social response to jokes, complains, stories, and not ruin conversation. For introverted (common for East Asians) people with nerdy interests like me it’s near-impossible to form close bonds with locals, because I’m generally an awkward and un-fun person when speaking English and I easily get more friends when speaking Chinese.
So even as a person relatively well-versed in English I am still tempted to only mingle in Chinese circles. It’s very very difficult to get out of. For Chinese students who are less interested in assimilating into Western culture and barely watch enough UA-cam in English (lol) it’s even more impossible for them to make local friends, because when you easily find people who have similar interests, make similar jokes, know the memes you know, sing the same songs you sing, why bother socialise with people so different from you?
Was very eye-opening for me to hear hear your perspective, thank you for sharing. BTW your written English is great!
I'm sorry to say you but I think you have a close mentality (and the people that think as you). Why you all go out from China with this mentality? You will learn anything
hey !! from Australia. anyways I don't think what you're doing is wrong do what u completely want. as someone who isn't east Asian or south east Asian I still try to talk to international students bc I feel like it's very hard for them if they're in a different country. you just need to find the right person talking to, you don't have to but it helps with making connections
The best way to learn a foreign language is immersion. I wouldn't really know, however. Another idea: maybe some Australians would be interested in Chinese lessons in exchange for English practice?
I am also Chinese and studied in Costa Rica with almost no spanish skills. Find an international community, there are amazing people everywhere and socialising is a huge part of your uni experience or living abroad in general.
We had a TON of Chinese international students while I was at university a year ago, and now I know why. This video was pretty spot on with its description of our international students. They tended to stick together and unfortunately tended to struggle academically. One day in the office of one of my professors, he went off to me, privately of course, about how the university kept setting Chinese students up for failure because they didn't speak or write English well enough to succeed at the university level, so he consistently was failing them. This came from a guy who was usually always very calm and even tempered.
The university also made sure the students were dependent on the university by providing them with meal plans, cell phones, and housing, for a price of course. It was honestly a bit of a sketchy situation.
It’s par for the course re: providing them everything they need. That would be similar at most schools and was true when I studied abroad in Argentina (I’m an American).
However, it’s not all the universities’ fault. I teach at a high school in China and until recently, there was an explosion of sketchy companies promising parents that in exchange for obscene amounts of money (think taking out a second mortgage) they could get their kids into any college via SAT training and writing essays FOR their kids.
Unfortunately, these companies were often led by Chinese people with very little understanding of the Western system and in possession of very low English themselves. I often received a bizarrely general or terribly-written essay from a student and would inevitably find out they had paid some company to write it.
The Chinese government is now systematically evaluating these companies and forcing them to move to non-profit models. While the main focus is on profit-mongering “training schools” for K-8 grades, it is thankfully also reducing the amount of these ridiculous places.
Basically, there’s a lot of preying on ignorance made possible by a certain level of censorship in one society and a financially strapped university system on the other.
Culture Hacks is also a fascinating book that explains some of how China works and ends up explaining their obsession with “brand names” (ie rankings).
@@abbyabroad what the culture hacks book name is and by who? I would like to read it. Thank you 😊
The english language part seems quite different to the University of Auckland. Everyone entering UoA is required to sit a Diagnostic English Language Needs Assessment before entering, and if you don't perform well you get admitted to a course on academic english
Though there could very easily still be issues pertaining thereto at UoA that I don't know about
@@LilPoppyHill probably "Culture Hacks: Deciphering Differences in American, Chinese, and Japanese Thinking" by Richard Conrad.
@@valoeghese Yeah, we have tests like that too for math and English. My university, at least, had pretty loose English requirements. You could be in upper level classes without having taken any English. It's not too uncommon in my state.
I went to a high school that prioritized getting into Ivy League and prestigious research universities. I applied to most of them, thinking that they were the key to a successful future. They all rejected me. I remember being devastated and making fun of the local public university that I was accepted into. Five years later, I've realized that studying film at my university was the right choice, as it was my greatest passion. I also found a job with a professor I really like and state scholarships that ended up paying me to go to school, even now as I get my graduate degree. Also, I made friends and professional connections that I never would have at an Ivy League. I understand this video is more about the macro level political factors of university rankings, but if any student applying to colleges reads this, remember to stay open about which school you choose. Do what you love doing, and the rest will follow. Great video!
@I ain't no millionaires son! There is nothing wrong with going to trade school. You can get a degree much faster and load a lot less debt. Then you can start earning, saving and then getting another degree. That pretty much guarantees a solid future with decent income.
@@fireball43 I didn't want to go to school for film initially. I saw myself going into engineering or economics. The only school that accepted me was a safety pick where I happened to choose film as a major.
Had I been more invested in film, I probably would have to applied to USC/NYU, etc. but I have no idea how I would have offset the cost. 4 years at NYU is ~$100k in tuition.
@@blakelowe9079 And today, a simple question. What was your pre-tax income this year?
@@lordprivateer4965 26k. That's mostly from my assistantship and other school jobs. Again, for context, that's one semester (13 credit hours) of tuition at NYU.
I went to one too and it sucks how people place your value on what schools you get in. I'm going to be attending a state school next year because of the cost, but it sucks when people sneer at it. I guess they won't be sneering when I don't have any undergraduate debt from the lower cost
I'm a Chinese student and I want to say that "The more research a teacher does, the worse quality of teaching" is surprisingly correct!!
It's not really surprising at all to me. There's only so much enthusiasm you can muster, having a full-time job at teaching and doing research on top of that means you either have virtually no free time, or start to take the time out of whichever you're incentiviced to focus on less. Which tend to be the teaching in most of these cases
所以最好就找一间就业力不错的，但学术能力差的学校？
@@林昊宁 回国就业看排名大概率是没问题的（包括综排和专排），因为能力强的国际生往往也会选择排名高的学校，国内企业卡排名本质上也是为了更好筛选出能力强的人。如果在当地就业，就更要考虑学校/专业就业力如何了，毕竟本国学生并不完全参考学术排名，有些看上去排名靠后的学校在当地可能评价很高，排名也不一定能反映当地的雇主声誉。
Flawed analogy.
I agree with EZ. I would formulate it differently
The more time a teacher spends on research on the cost of other teaching improving activities, the worse the teaching become - I would say.
I am a German student who did her bachelors in Amsterdam before deciding to go to a higher ranked/"better" university in London for her masters. Although I was more than happy in Amsterdam, I felt that one of the prestigious British unis would prepare me better for the competitive job market. Well, what should I say? Going from a 50+ uni to one of the top ten, the British one was much worse. In academic quality and organization. Plus, they kept asking for feedback, however, stayed non-responsive to any negative feedback, and barely taught me what I had already learned in my Bachelors (if even).
In many European countries, unis are for free or relatively cheap (2k per year). But the uk is extremely expensive compared to that (40k for a masters). Hence, many European students expect the uk unis to be better, otherwise they wouldnt pay this surplus. My uk uni, however, is completely oblivious to that, only compares itself to other overpriced British unis, and is more than happy to hear that I barely learned anything at their institution, as long as they can somehow sell me off to the job market, since their ranking is highly dependent on the salary earned by graduates (yes, this is true and shocking and yes, this is the Financial Times ranking I am talking about here, whose ranking is made up to 25% by the salary earned in the first years after graduation, the rest being based on research and citations.)
People are reluctant to make documentaries on these highly organized and smooth scamming operations by western universities. These tales are common enough. The BBC is not going to make them nor will any "respected" media channel.
Are you talking about UCL lmao. They rejected my application on Valentinesday.
Welp... As a french who is planning to stay in my good old free public university for a master's, this is somewhat reassuring that I'm not missing out on much at least.
Aside from Oxbridge, the rest are mediocre unless they are specialised.
War das Imperial College? An Imperial interessiert man sich nur dafür, ob UCL höher in die Rankings kommt.
14:30 In one study Princeton's business school was ranked in the top 10 (by peer colleges) despite not even existing.
That's absolutely hilarious.
not hilarious, should be shamed and ridiculed
Wow
Same with Dartmouth. It's so funny
@@shivanshuojha1307 Dartmouth has a business school. It was my top choice back when I was applying 😭
And this is why I love the German university system. I'll simply go to the closest university which happens to offer what I want to study. Is it the best? Unlikely. Is it good enough to build a good career on a degree from there? Definitely.
Edit: I just met a Nigerian who went from the US to Germany to study here. He pays $300 instead of like $30k per semester.
You cant do that here lmfao. Boomers instilled in everyone that University rank matters.
I dont blame em either. I had dogshit experiences with highschool teachers, and genuinely do see a difference in education based off highschools, and their management.
Im going to college soon, but I genuinely feel that school quality matters a shit ton
I chose Germany instead of expensive choices fueled by debt that my fellow friends have chosen. Hopefully i didn't make a wrong decision.
@@honkhonk8009 Rankings ensure the top stay at the top and the bottom stay in their place.
@@cattysplat What are you tryna imply by "top stay at the top, and the bottom stay in their place" ???
Are you tryna say that bottom universities should know their place, and should never strive for better?
@@honkhonk8009 I think they're saying that the way the rankings are designed and their unavoidable influence makes it hard for the low ranked universities to climb the rankings.
I'm european but was conned by this bullshit too. I managed to enter "the best" mechanical engineering school in my entire country despite having really high rejection rates. Let's just say they treated me so well I ended up with severe depression. Teachers would come to class once every two weeks, only to verbally assault us, others would not know how to use powerpoint and use it as an excuse to leave us without classes for months despite having a fucking phd in AI (while not related FFS, IT'S FUCKING POWERPOINT). Nearly all of us dropped out before the first year ended and were promptly met with more verbal abuse by the administration, who straight up thought we had no value as people and were inferior to them. Talk about elitism.
I decided to just go for our equivalent of a state school and found out that you can be treated like a human being while in uni, while also finding out they had way better installations, teachers, commodities and even programs to make sure no student was falling behind. At first I didn't believe it tbh, this uni was meant to be garbage in comparison to my last one according to those ratings. I also found out that this new uni has a program where my degree is instantly valid across the whole of europe and the us (though that last one requires some paperwork if you wanna do stuff with any legal implications outside of Texas, since that's where the uni they partnered with to achieve it is from), while the previous one wasn't even valid across all of europe, just my own country.
The first semester at my new one was still tough though, not only my will to study was depleted, so was the one to live. I really did think I wouldn't make it to the end of the year without killing myself, having truly believed what I was told beforehand. By the end of it, I managed to get back on track, sorta. I did fail a whole lot of subjects the first semester, but by the second one I was not only passing, but learning more than I thought I ever could, my grades reflecting that.
I'm an atheist, but I really do hope there is such a place as hell, so the people who created this exploitative garbage can taste some of their own medicine.
I went to a top school and a top college, dropped out of both to save my sanity. Both places made me want to commit suicide. Sad as it sounds I'm pretty sure that's how the system works. Even if teaching is terrible you're expected to teach yourself since the institution cannot possible be liable, because they're so "highly rated", it must be the students fault, nobody will believe you. If you drop out or kill yourself as a failing student, well that's their problem solved in keeping their top grade percent high.
Something instantly came to mind when you were describing your first school. Idk if you're in France, but I'm an international student and I went to preparatory class. To say I left with my self esteem and will to live intact would be the lie of the century. It's supposed to be for the crème de la crème. But they managed to turn away so many people in the first two weeks that I wondered if if I was making a mistake by staying. And even the people that completed the program and moved on hate it so much. I'm in a public university now and doing so much better. And I can't believe my hs teachers talked bad about uni because honestly out if everything it's the place for me.
@@whatif5108 wow, I didn't knew there were international students in preparatory classes. Must have been really hard!
I managed to get into a école d'ingénieur with a bsc in physics from public university and I'm really happy with it, at least I could enjoy my life and not work all the time
Well same thing happened with me, I am studying in India's most premiere college IIT, Delhi (although it's govt funded, but ranked no.1 when compared to pvt or govt), it's placements stats are unmatched in entire nation.... 500+ students out of 1300 got 150k+ USD Jobs in companies in like Google, Microsoft etc (here companies come to campus to recruit students).....
Our Computer Science professor was a di¢k, we protested and got him kicked out because that guy literally demolarised us, said that you'll are robots etc type of verbal and mental abuse......
The only thing which was in our favour was the management was good.....
Well this college's fees is just 18k USD for 4 years which includes mess, hostel, academics etc and if your parents earn less than 10K USD, then you can study for free.... but govt spends nearly ~80K USD in each student over 4 years ......
Wow, I'm from Latam and i heard a lot of histories in how europe have the best education in the world in almost every aspect, but i see that they have some important problems too. I'm happy for you and i hope that you get an excellent education in this new uni
I remember noticing this at my University 15 years ago: in first year there were so many people that barely spoke English... if you have to team up with them on an assignment, they struggled to write their part (I often had to explain why Wikipedia is not an appropriate source...). I felt bad for them because it was clear that few of them made it to the next year, but it was an easy source of income for the University to just "let anyone in" to first year who could afford it, because it was easy money for the school. An administrator admitted to me there were high suicide rates among them because they were failing, under immense pressure, they were isolated, scared :( I had no idea. Talk to them, be nice and help them practice English if you can.
They should learn in their own country with their own people. We should punish our schools for taking advantage of them.
@@deadpresident78 A lot of the time their English is actually very impressive while it is not the main language of their home country - but they often can't write university standard essays and reports. But then again... there were students who grew up speaking only English their whole lives still had zero clue how to write a report that wasn't entirely plagiarized. At least the foreign students took their education seriously.
Reading this broke my heart. I had no idea this was even happening.
@MUWAFFAQ Most Chinese international students "know" English since English was taught in all Chinese elementary, middle, and high schools. But knowing English vs. being able to use English to put together a college-level essay and give a speech is a different story. I doubt all native English speakers can easily do that without proper high-level education.
@@deadpresident78 then many universities of usa will brankrupt. Merican should thanks for so many idoit chinese students sent money to USA.
The very idea of ranking is also heavy within Chinese culture. I remember even in elementary school, my parents would ask me, "are you ranked at the top in your class?" all the damn time. We take rankings VERY seriously even if the actual quality isn't true. Because of that, a similar idea has been happening among Asian-American communities. You will still get parents asking, "you should go to (insert name of school) because of rankings!"
I remember I got admitted to a lesser state university and my mom would nonstop ask me, "have you thought of transferring?", and I'm glad I never did because sometimes, the lower-ranked stuff teaches you more. I also get classmates telling me that people in "better schools" only learned simulation, but the counterpart in my uni learned practical, hands-on stuff.
TLDR: don't let the rankings deceive you from what unis actually teach people.
Actually what is taught is necessarily everywhere the same. The assumption that all good teachers go to prestigious schools and bad teachers go to non-prestigious schools: maybe wrong.
coming from a chinese household outside of china, i can say this is also so true
Which come off no suprise, the concept of equality is pretty much non-existent in asian culture and country, especially korean/japanese/chinese culture.
So they use ranking to rate everything because to asian,
They either see you as "inferior" classes,
Or they see you as "superior" classes.
No in between such as equal.
Also they adjust their morality according to your social class too.
For example, hitting someone older/richer than you is no-no,
But hitting someone younger/poorer than you is viewed as "education" or "training" .
not just chinese, almost all of asia places the same importance on education and rankings
@@dood52751 exactly the case here in India
Similar to the Gaokao, the Suneung in South Korea determines the class - economic and social of someone's prospective post-high school life. It's such a Confucian remnant on our societies, Japan also similarly has a end of high school / pre-university comprehensive exam. Our success is owed to this as well as our stress and high suicide rates unfortunately.
Yeah, as a university student here in Dominican Republic, it hurts me knowing the huge amount of stress other students face, specially from Asia, it doesn't even compare
It's the same thing here in India, Students have to appear for JEE for technical courses and in NEET for medical courses. I have seen people devoting 6 years of their life and yet failing to get in a good college. Honestly it's not worth it
India also has such exams. You fail your first attempt at entrance exams, everyone looks down on you.
I feel like most Asian countries have this system.
@@ijustfelldown Brazil also has
Well same goes for India too, Here there are exams JEE (for Engg) NEET (for Medical), CAT (for Management) , but my parents were great, they never said anything thing like thse to me, never asked my rankings from me...... Just said "study whenever you like, but study by heart, Knowledge is important than ranks or grades"..... Whereas my friend's parents asked him about ranks etc, even my relatives too.......
Well tbh because of no pressure from my parents, I used to without any pressure, used to give tests with calm mind without the fear of whatever rank I'll get because at the end my parents didn't cared about my rank...... So because of these factors, I always ended up in top 5 of my class even not giving too much of an effort for those rankings compared to other students who used to study day in day out......
Now I am in India's most premiere Govt college, *IIT Delhi* (it's no.1 in India when compared to pvt or govt)......
Parents have a really really great role child's development.....
I'm honestly amazed the publication/citation issue hasn't turned into a big scandal. A few have popped up over the years, but never gotten traction outside of academia.
Unfortunately, even if the whole model you described falls apart, the US government provides the loans, so they have an interest in keeping the system flowing, even if it is broken.
The rankings are flawed but it’s still better than not using the ranking. There is a lot measured in the rankings that do matter a lot - the problem is since the formula is made public, they can gain the system
The journal publishing companies also run very vampiric system too. Those publishers almost do nothing but they get enormous amount of revenue
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Not really. Rankings have no use to you if you have no idea what you'll do in life. Of course any Harvard or MIT graduate will get a job easily but someone who goes to an average state school and has no idea what they want to major in are basically paying for nothing. Use scholarships and academic programs that each University offers to determine what University you want to go to. If you're interested in STEM go to a STEM oriented school, if you're interested in law and politics go to a university with a good law program, ect. Always look for the University that will benefit YOUR specific goal or interest or future job instead of being influenced be prestige and rank.
@@danielanderson6933 even in your scenario the rankings still matter- but you also need to apply “what type of program do I want”? The rankings often include rankings for specific degrees or areas of study. I think those are the most relevant than the general overall score. For example, if I want to be an engineer, Harvard might be top in the world in general but Stanford would be ranked better and would a better choice than Harvard.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Yes exactly. Only use rankings to compare schools that will have a direct impact on what you're studying, but don't just use prestige as a metric to determine what school you'll go to. Many people make the mistake of choosing the most expensive or far away school because of reputation like the video stated, but many times the best education you could possibly get are the nearby schools that cater to your specific needs and budgets so you'll be able to make the most of it in those 4-8 years.
This is actually very interesting to watch coming from a country (Germany) where nearly all universities are roughly of equal quality, but where the government tried and tries to create "excellence", i.e. universities that place well on rankings. It always confuses people when a university they've basically never heard of - RWTH Aachen - scores extremely high alongside universities in Munich and Berlin, where people know at least the town.
The interesting thing about choosing a university in Germany is that - unless you study a niche subject - it's mostly arbitrary. Your chances aren't decided by what the name of the university you went to is, but either financial background or chance. For example, our last Chancellors graduated from Hamburg (Scholz), Leipzig (Merkel), Goettingen (Schroeder) and Heidelberg (Kohl) university - only one of which tends to show up on international rankings.
IF you study a niche subject, you'd generally try to find out what the research and teaching focus of the professor is before deciding. For example, going by Japanology programms - if you're interested in history, go to Bochum U, if you're interested in literature, go to Freie University Berlin, if you're interested in religion, go to Tuebingen, if you're interested in gender studies, choose Duesseldorf, the list goes on. That's MUCH more fiddly than going by university reputation!
The upside to this whole thing is: If you don't have the cash to move out of your parents' house and live vaguely rural, that doesn't mean you're doomed - you can visit a small course at a local university or technical university, and it likely won't be a detriment in any way even if you aim high.
Trust me, every engineer knows RWTH! :) Similarly for TU Delft and other technical universities in Europe, most people don't know them, but people in fields do. My sister (RWTH) and I (Imperial College London) both had to explain to people that we're at universities, not vocational/associate degree colleges because of the names.
RWTH Aachen is in the top 10 of the biggest universities in Germany. Even bigger than any of the Berlin universities. But yeah, the excellence initiative weakens the quality of teaching, just to score higher in rankings. Universities that didn't manage to get the excellence status are at an unfair disadvantage and receive less money than universities with excellence status.
Thats what I love about german higher education system. As an international student coming from Central Asia I was shocked by the employmen stats and amount of average salary of graduates of particular universities. Looking at how well students end up after graduation, you just start to ignore universities' rank in QS or THE, as almost everyone with the same degree, but from different universities, get paid equally.
good insight into understanding the German higher education system, yet does it matters more about the reputation when it comes to business schools in Germany?
well... anybody in DACH-region who studies a STEM-subject has heard of RWTH ^^
I for myself study in Austria, it's pretty similar to Germany just that we only have few universities (which tend to be more conservative)
As a physics student I witnessed many intetnational students blindly going to University of Vienna, because it's the highest ranked. Talking about Physics, it has the highest ranking in the country (because of research and now the nobel prize), but it is definitely not first choice for most locals (who know what they're doing), the fact that TU Vienna freshmen are often hired to do mathematics tutorials at University of Vienna should speak for itself lol
Thanks for sharing stuff like this, a person like me would have not had the opportunity to learn incredibly interesting and useful information like this like 40 years ago, so I really appreciate you breaking all this down
NO! NO! NO! Many people say I am sick in the head. NOOOO!!!! I don't believe them. But there are so many people commenting this stuff on my videos, that I have 1% doubt. So I have to ask you right now: Do you think I am sick in the head? Thanks for helping, my dear bw
@@AxxLAfriku Please consult a psychiatrist. There is no shame in it. We’re rooting for your well being.
@@SujayRajJha its a spam account
@@SujayRajJha He is trying to get subscribers by spamming (sometimes weird comments). Check his comment history.
this my afterschool 😍😇
This also holds very true in the UK. The number of Chinese students was already high and increasing, and has boomed massively due to restrictions on US visas last year. Many are ruthlessly exploited, with universities waving English language requirements to charge students who will inevitably fail £90,000+ to be there.
Yup. Chinese mainlanders litterally flood your school, to the point its not even funny. They dont even interact with anyone else, and end up forming their own bubbles.
@@honkhonk8009 Tbh it isn’t just people from the mainland- you’ve good a good heap of Hongkongers as well
@@honkhonk8009 cant blame them when xenophobic is very apparent
@@xiaomose7495 Right! Especially after covid smh
@@honkhonk8009 okay? Because ig it's so easy to interact with a completely different group speaking a different language when there are already people you're familiar with. They are obviously going to flock together. Including all the xenophobia in America, (I'm American) I don't blame them.
This problem is extremely pronounced in Australian universities.
Australian citizens have subsidised University fees and accesss to interest free government loans to afford an education.
International students are required to pay each semester upfront at full cost.
Over the last 15 years, Australian universities have become degree factories for international students, where funding is diverted into building international accommodation rather than investing into research facilities, grants etc.
This problem is exacerbated as the government provides permanent residency schemes for students on study visas if they do certain degrees. Everyone flocks to these degrees, few can get a job after, due to lower English language proficiency standards and increased labour supply. These students then take any job they can get and saturate the unskilled labour market.
It is a malicious program which robs developing countries of their talent to ensure a developed country has a steady stream of cheap foreign labour which can be exploited.
These policies are deliberate and ensure wages are suppressed, federal tax revenue is high, housing demand is high, and education profits are high.
But hey, it helps expand GDP - so all good right?
And how does it affect local people ,isn't it difficult for them to find a job because of this and how they are handling
@@starsinthesky593 To a degree it impacts local people - particularly the young and unskilled - but since pandemic and subsequent closing of the borders, it hasn't been this easy to find a job (for locals) in Australia for more than 35 years. Increased numbers of international students (who are funnelled into mostly unskilled work) in Australia hinders wage growth (as labour supply is increased) and also puts upward pressure on rents and house prices. Many local Australians have found that shutting the borders had a net positive impact on them - unless, of course, they worked in tourism, or have family overseas that they were unable to visit/have visit them.
@@alphabet_soup123 oh that's intresting , actually it's good if your whole population is employed which pay more taxes but why then need of a education industry which affects them ? There are many other industries to earn money and support growth of a nation !
As an international student who is studying in australia, I can't agree more. I think the model has to focus more on the quality of education than funding research, since there are so many people right now who do not have any idea about the fundamentals of the field they are studying. The current model is just deliberately and blatantly for the selected few, whether it is for internationals or domestics alike, and this I feel like hinders the growth of new creative intellectuals that can offer so much more to the community if only they got better teachers. Not to mention the dominant chinese students that are always noticeable on campus. Despite having numerous chinese societies and clubs, they seem very much isolated to their own small group, and this excacerbates when they are allocated in group activities. I had experience working with a chinese student but they extensively talked in chinese with other chinese students while I remained isolated. I asked why not speak english and they said something like we understand better in chinese. Then why even come to Australia if you really gonna have your little bubbles? Also this phenomenon is more extreme in majors such as science or math involved subjects, cause you do not need english to communicate. If you just have their own chinese tutors, which are often available through numerous ads in uni, they buy those courses in chinese companies separate from universities and get the help they need. That way they can just go to australia, barely increase their english abilities but can still pass or even excel in their degrees and get whatever paper they want. I always found this just very ridiculous.
This is wrong. Those students will never get Australian citizenship unless they marry an Australian, which they won't since they always stick together in their own bubble.
I can only imagine the pressure that those Gaokao exams bring. We have something like that in Vietnam. In fact, my parent's life changed after their exams, which opened the door for them to get government funded scholarships to study in Russia. Those people formed an upper class for that generation. Those who could not make it during the the exam, would only be able to catch up and exceed by becoming business people in Eastern European countries. Even when they are rich and come back to Vietnam, for a long time, people like my dad would look down on them because they didn't make it in the exams in the old days.
I come from a (back then) upper middle class, who would have never made it in the uni entrance exam. The education system was designed for well rounded machines, not humans. I was fortunate enough to have full support from my parents to leave and study abroad when I was 17. I watched from afar many of my friends going through the entrance exam and have huge respect for those that made it. Those that did not make it to prestigious schools, 10 years on, they're still not getting very far.
I now live in Australia, and have seen that that success of a person does not depend on the label of the university they attended, but their mindset and attitude towards success. The barriers between the classes are there, inevitably. However, it is less heavy and crushing that that in VIetnam, or China or Asia in general.
it is not hard work, it is luck
nah people buy score in that exam now
@@giialiinh IT IS hard-working, stop denying others people effort
@@yeltsakcir8468 lol 🥲 u know nothing
I agree. For those who really made it, they are not normal people at all. determination, dedication, execution, and gambling based on broaden horizons supply their success.
11:55 “Students may wonder why so many of their classes are capped at 19 or 20 students”
I would love to see this played in my freshman/sophomore lectures where 300+ people crammed together to watch PowerPoints from some old professor that’s given the exact same lecture for the last 20 years and he’s just as bored as we are. It would be the pinnacle of comedy.
Honestly cant do the 19-20 students for a ge class, no one would ever fucking graduate...
@@LaughingJokerProd Writing classes are almost always capped at 19-20... and there are never enough of them. Didn't complete my writing credit until senior year because I could never wake up on time for registration and they were always full by the time I did
That's at least better because there are less college buildings built and the resources and infrastructure is used more widely.
@@yangzhang5870 What kind of writing class? I assume if its a technical writing class, it'd need the professor to actually be somewhat invested in making sure things are going right enough especially if they dont have ta's
@@LaughingJokerProd nope just a gen-ed writing requirement. My chem 101 class was 300+ but all the freshman English classes at my college were capped at 20
I’m a civil engineering student at UBC in Vancouver BC. One of my friends, who is international, pays about 10x the tuition I pay. That flabbergasted me. I can definitely see why schools would market towards international students.
Undergrad at another one of the "Big 3" in Canada, ngl their tuition scares me because it's about as much as I would've had to pay if I studied in the US instead of coming back to Canada.
I'm one of the international student in UBC. The tuition is still very low compared with those in the states...
Hey if you don’t mind how is the civil engineering program at UBC. I just got my offer for applied science.
@@kiwipeanut8074 it honestly gets really stressful sometimes. For example, a couple weeks ago, we had 4 midterms in a week, 3 of which were on the same day. You can check out the UBC or UBC Engineering subreddit for more insight, though.
@@getgaijoobed6219 that can happen in any uni eng program right
My family isn't that "middle-class" enough to get me "international". And Gaokao is the most exhausting gate that I passed through and got an "OK" result. Not the best scores I can get. Ended up with an average key university. Students who aren't happy with the results can spend another year and take the Gaokao again if they will. But I just can't take that pressure again, for another year. I just go with it. University is the important stepping-stone when you are a graduate. But when you start the career, it doesn't matter that much we as students used to think it does.
Two years after graduating, I've got a well-paid job now that I can't imagine when I was in school.
:)
I feel you because I'm a person that have taken another year to re-take the Gaokao, but the sad part is, the next year someone stole the Math exam paper before the exam, then temporarily the Math exam paper was replaced to "exam B" (they always prepare different exams), and the "exam B" is extremely difficult for everyone, I was not aware this is the Plan B when taking the exam, and I feel extremely depressed when taking the exam because I have no idea why this time it's so difficult. this resulted in me still got a "OK" score like the last year, I've wasted a year but I have to take it...I had no extra year to waste...
：）
I work at a municipality in the Netherlands where there are international students attending colleges. I try to be as kind as possible to them. I have had a couple that just felt lost and needed someone who listened to them, because they are so overwhelmed and sometimes just want to go home, but they can't. Especially Chinese students.
It is not just language, but also culture, costumes and a different way of life. They are under pressure to succeed and considered lucky to be abroad at all. These students usually avoid things they do not understand and are ashamed to say they do not understand something. I think they are miserable most of the time and I feel rather sorry for them.
God I just came back home for the summer after studying in murica for a year and this 100% how I felt.
Delft faculty here. What you report is also what I see almost every day.
I was thinking about this as a European international student in the NL with family ties to the country. The experience my Asian International friends had were and are so problematic and fully reflect what was said in the video..
Unfortunately this is generally what the immigrant experience is in general, not just for students but also workers and anyone really. My girlfriend is Turkish and she actually had to drop out of university so that she could immediately work and support her entire family of 6 people, the pressure is unreal. She can never take a break. And the government is also putting pressure on you to prove your worth. The strength that is required is absolutely unlike anything that native Europeans/Americans know.
@@MrMadalien true, but this is also why some of our most successful fellow citizens come from foreign ancestry. They had to struggle in ways we Americans take for granted. My grandmother came to america when she was 17 by her self and she ended up raising a family of 7. Struggle is good, if you can make it through. Wholeheartedly agree with the original premise of this video however.
Research metrics is a great way to figure out if your professor will be a no-show and a TA or RA will be teaching the class.
Very true. As a grad student at NTU who is required to do 416 hours of TA duty, I have to handle undergrad tutorials. While my prof/supervisor is supposed to show up, he only ever does on the first day and never again. :D
THANK YOU! I was shocked at how many first year international students, especially from Asia, don’t have the necessary language skills to succeed at North American post secondary institutions. They’re being scammed for the fees they pay, nearly 5x what the domestic students pay, and it’s disgusting.
Hey... Survival of fittest =))
Rich people problem they say.
They are not scammed they are rich people who can afford a foreign education which is good for cv.
@@jogo798 nope. I'm from India and I know a ton of people who attend college in the US. Most of them are middle class - they take out loans and get scholarships inorder to afford going there and work small jobs to afford living there.
@@vickie_g Yes, they may be rich in their country. But in the US, they are no richer than the average middle class person.
This is also a labor market problem. Like you said a half of the issue is the Gaokao system and implications of its test score to the major determinant of your career opportunities and life. The labor market is overly valuing college brand credentials and not giving enough chance to the people who learn outside the standard college education system. Anyone can learn pretty much anything at very low cost today, and that is a direct threat to the college system as a whole (as long as its purpose is to make money).
I definitely agree. One big example is software development.
You can learn the vast majority of what you need to code without going to college, yet most recruitment is still looking for college education.
There are people like me who dont do with self-motivated learning and need a structured learning environment, hence why ive decided to go to college for it. But the overvaluation of college degrees has been a major problem.
@@tlpineapple1 This is largely true, coming from someone who went to college for an M.S. in Computer Science. Even with a college education, many people who were in my degree program were still relatively incompetent. I would rather work with someone who has been motivated enough to learn on their own without a degree than someone with a degree who lacks the motivation to do their work.
With that said, the problem is much more pronounced in undergraduate programs. Graduate programs tend to retain the more motivated students who actually care about furthering the field.
@@fairlyfactual451 I personally have some issues with where you describe when it comes to motivation. I have a learning disability that specifically effects my executive function, which makes it literally impossible to just "be motivated" enough to learn without a structured environment.
Meanwhile i spent 5 years in the USMC in which time i recieved awards on my dedication and completion of our mission as well as surpervising the section i worked with. That included working directly under our commanding officer of the regiment. Thats not even counting my 6 years in EMS that ive consistently been a high performer in, on average completing more calls for service then other crews.
The issue with college is a systemic issue thats been essentially beat into the current generations that college degrees are a must, which componds with bachelor's focusing too much on gen eds due to a lack of K12 advancement. Add to all of this that many career fields will actually use college to train their future employees in knowledge that could be better learned on the job. (though the tech industry is often much better about this.) Also i think theres this idea from high earners in HR departments with expensive degrees think any high income job should have a degree which causes degrees to often appear on a screening application when it really doesnt need to be.
This leads to most kids going straight to college without gaining much actual workforce experience applicable to the careers they are interested in. (i also hate when people say service industry jobs are what people should use to gain workforce experience. I got almost nothing from my time in high school doing those jobs. End tangent.)
TL;DR
I feel this is a vastly complex and related to the overall systemic issues in our educational system from kindergarten all the way to college.
True. The main issue I see from an employer side ist the inability of HR and Managers to judge skill. The best strategy is to slap some buzz words into your cv you know are hot atm.
The problem with the education system in Asian countries is that there's not enough emphasis on other possible paths to go. Maybe one could do a detour to community college or vocational school, work a couple of years, and then go to college/university.
I'm a Chinese student who just left the Gao kao path. I felt directly spoken to in this video. Though I am a Chinese international student, I don't have the money to pay for the high intuition fees. Sad.🙃
wut r studying now
Hi.... I'm a medicine student from Iraq and I love China... can you chat me I need your help. Do you have telegram or any app?
you could work part time while going to school
Germany has no fees
在中国走出去的留学生圈子中，人们普遍把德国治学的严谨当成是显著的事实，一个段子称“你在德国大学的四年将会是你人生中最有意义的八年”。我是说，德国留学通常被认为很难毕业@@mwuerz
In the circle of Chinese students studying abroad, people generally regard the rigor of German scholarship as an obvious fact. A joke says, "Your four years at a German university will be the most meaningful eight years of your life." I mean, studying in Germany is usually considered difficult to graduate
Reminds me of how French universities are always low in these rankings, because they don't "publish" much.
But in France, research is done by separate (publicly funded) research centers, universities focus exclusively on education. So they're considered "bad" because they don't do research... which has never been their job.
I always find it funny when people think that education in France is terrible only based on the universities ranking, where if you have worked with French people your realise their education is just as good, and probably wider, than elsewhere.
And yeah the problem in the US is mostly the for-profit model, if you want your citizens to be educated university should be public and free. It costs a little bit to the taxpayer but the result is totally worth it. And universities wouldn't need to whore themselves to get better ranking.
Idk I heard a lot of French people in Niagara Falls talking about how they’re excited because they’re really close to New York City. Based on what I encountered in France they acted like a 1.5 hour drive was long. So based on that they’re way off. New York City it about 8-10 hours away roughly. And I also find that the French are very similar to Americans. We’re both a bit too proud to admit their wrongs. But unfortunately due to the American education system we don’t learn enough to counter you. Whenever a French person talks about Iraq I bring up Algeria and how France destroyed Haiti. But that’s because I’m a history teacher/student teacher. I’m pretty much an apprentice teacher. But I love it. Maybe I haven’t been jaded yet lol. I was happy I got a student to do a project on the Haitian Revolution.
Bullshit. It doesn't "cost a little", it cost a whole lot. Why would it be worth it? We have a shortage of people doing uncomfortable jobs, not a shortage of people doing university. You want to artificially privilege the already priviliged at the cost of the ones doing the uncomfortable jobs.
The universities in the USA have no intention of becoming public. They want to make profit. And if you just hand them money, it will only become worse - they will extract even more profit off the taxpayer for even less in exchange.
I mean, if I was deciding between two exactly same universities, one with research arms and the other without, I’d definitely choose the former. Maybe that’s just me, but I wouldn’t look at it as a good thing.
Same in Germany for certain study subjects.
The problem with free education IS NOT THE TAXES, instead its the service provided. The free university you attend will be trash as well as every student in the building. Heres a study, the graduation rates of community college are LOW, around 20% when we looked at free community colleges the graduation went DOWN, around 10%. Why? Because if people aren’t paying for it, they aren’t giving care to it.
Had I known these facts 15 years ago, I wouldn't have gone to college at all. I am a victim of misinformation my university mischievously promoted. They cited a survey that showed 99% of the graduates were able to get a job within a year of completing their degree. Little did I know graduates who ended up working at McDonald's and Starbucks were also counted as 'employed' by my almamater.
Where u from,my dear friend?
And what course did u take at college.
damn thats hard
@@liberalslayer1349 i was an Indonesian student in the university of Melbourne.
It's more of what you choose as a major more than what uni u attend
@@johndaly2816 That is still top famous schools in Austrlia nowadays.
In my college a professor walked into every class, telling us: "There is going to be a university ranking based on student surveys. The better we are in that ranking, the better the college that you are going to graduate from is going to look. But I'm not telling you what you should choose on the survey."
Ahh, I’ll just go to a highly populated uni and convince everyone to give a 5 star lol
It is smart of him to do so and, sadly, would be smart of the students to over inflate the reviews to give the school a better name, even if unearned. Places like Google have some severe college elitism in their hiring processes so even if you took underwater basket weaving, if it was from a college that is 'prestigious', you are have much better odds than if you got a great education at a place that doesn't have the same value in the name.
@@curtisbme Not true Google basically only hires engineers at this point
@@pigsgofly3176 Not remotely true as to who they hire or how. And are you saying that Engineers don't go to college?? I live right next to a Google campus and have number of people I know that currently work and have worked there. This is not new or unique knowledge.
@@curtisbme google still hire people from state schools. For real prestige places you need to look at law firms and hedge funds in Wall Street. You don’t have a degree from a prestige university these guys doesn’t even bother with your application. Elitism at its best.
Speaking as a former PhD candidate, this video is so accurate it hurts. From 2016 to 2018, I was a teaching assistant for a senior-level pre-med course that always had a moderate number of international students who could at least memorize the figures to a point of earning a B or C overall in the class. My professor and I would talk about the lack of engagement and willingness to answer questions by international students, and we came to realize it was likely because they couldn't speak English well enough to engage with us on the level that was required by the (very advanced) material. They never seemed happy and always kept to themselves/each other.
Chinese students don't like answering questions because they've been taught to keep quiet during class. That's the Chinese way of teaching, teachers teach and students listen. China's population is too large, there are too many students in a class, and teachers don't have enough time to interact with students. In addition, they are shy and afraid of answering the wrong answer. At least from my experience as a Chinese student.
I am American of Chinese descent, and in my first year of graduate school, it would be the international Chinese students that actively try and befriend me at least on social media but the American students wouldn't. I mean I wanted to make friends - to build a network of people with diverse abilities and to find a girlfriend, but to have primarily international Chinese students wanting to be friends with me, and to have American students prefer to be among themselves and avoid me, just didn't feel right. Now that my life is oriented towards research and completing my Ph.D., I don't have time for any socializing or making friends.
If instead, I went to a party university, focused on clubs / student organizations, frequented parties, and perhaps ran a club myself or been an officer, I would have made more friends than I knew what to do with. But I couldn't have it all, and focusing on my GPA and making myself employable in the traditional sense became the higher priority, and now it is my only priority.
Fortunately, I did get back into the Army Reserves, and was able to spend time in an organization that valued team-building, and met people who worked there wanting to be friends, and also have nice jobs in the "real world", some of whom are making bank, and proving that you don't need a Ph.D. to make it out there. They gave me a bit of the social life I was looking for, if only one weekend a month.
@@cico9117 “China's population is too large, there are too…” is a common excuse for everything, including the current zero covid policy. (Because China’s population is too large, many people will die if zero Covid policy is not enforced.) Since the population is large, shouldn’t there be proportionally more teachers too? I believe the main reason why Chinese students tend not to ask questions or participate in class discussions is due to the Chinese culture. Confucius education system does not encourage (or even discourage) free thinking and critical thinking. Students are supposed to listen and not to question what the teachers and authority have to say. Passive learning is the norm.
@@sfsaam Ok look, I didn't say that China's large population is the reason why a zero covid policy needs to be enforced. Please don't make wrong assumptions about me. My previous comment was just for the current topic. I don't deny that one of the reasons Chinese students have been quiet is because of Chinese culture. What I wanted to say earlier was that China's large population is one of the things that determines how schools teach. Everyone wants more teachers, but where do you get them? Can you force more people to be teachers? That's a violation of human rights. We need to increase teachers' income and provide more compensation. The government needs to put more money into education, and even then we can't guarantee that we can have more teachers anytime soon. Young people are more looking to engage in IT-related jobs these days. We also need more money to develop the technology industry and many other industries. This is a slow process, not as simple as you say.
@@cryora That’s a huge rarity. The international Chinese students typically ignore EVERYONE else. I went to a university with an endless number of them. It was almost impressive how much they managed to avoid everyone else but their own.
The fact that they interacted with you at all, let alone reached out to you on social media is pretty bizarre. The only explanation I can think of is that you were so socially awkward that they felt like you were one of their own.
As an aside, school I mentioned was ranked very high but was also a “party school” and if you think attending a party school would automatically make you have a decent social network, you’re sorely mistaken. People were very social…with other social people. People would party…with other hardcore partygoers. I think you need to take accountability for your lack of social skills so you can begin to work on them instead of blaming your environment. The reason I’m going in so hard is because there were socially awkward people at this school who selected it just because they assumed it would make them more socially competent…it did not.
I am all for allowing international student openings in schools, but I have a really interesting, one to one, domestic to international student comparison that affected me personally. I applied and and was accepted to the University of California at San Francisco (UCSF) dental hygienist program to start in Fall 2003. I moved to SF that summer and was ready to begin when I got a letter that the dental hygiene program had been shut down. I was confused and looked into it. The dental hygiene program accepted only 20 students per year. The year that they discontinued the program, they also happened to open up exactly 20 INTERNATIONAL ONLY dental student admissions to the same school. International students have to pay enormous additional fees to attend the UC. I was really bummed that I missed out on this opportunity as a result of a blatant money grab by the UC system.
It's the same everywhere else in the world. International students get fucked in the ass financially for no reason other than institutions realising that people that can afford to study overseas necessarily have more money. It's the same for sports camps as well. Hope it worked out for you.
@@ashraile In Europe most schools are public so it's really cheap for international students but most of them are garbage compared to the natives. Our school barely apply any selection for international students for the sake of being able to appear in international rankings (I am French but this issue is widespread in Europe).
@@uwu_senpai So I see at the end of the day, schools are beholden to metrics like revenue or ranking and not metrics like student satisfaction and job placement rate 😒
@@georgebrantley776 I think it's hard to monetize student satisfaction and job placement rate. If you're a professor, would you like to get paid in student satisfaction instead of money ? Unless you do some sort of commission system where the professor get 10% salary of each student he taught, but only after the student start working. Such that the professor is incentivize to produce student with minimum of fluff and most useful knowledge in short as amount of time as possible. So both the professor and student incentive are align. Then capitalism will take care of rest.
Coding bootcamp usually follow this structure, you don't pay the school until you get a job, the money is 33% of your job income. And if you didn't get a job with certain minimum amount of salary within one year after graduating, you don't have to pay tuition. The absolute amount of tuition is higher than other equivalent type of trade school/boot camp, but since the boot camp is taking on all the risk and align its incentive with student's. It's fine in that case. The boot camp does reserve the right to fire student if they didn't study and keep up their grade and their initial deposit is forfeit in that case.
Imagine if regular university adopting this model, then the professor will have incentive to have to teach student as best as possible and as efficient as possible. Bad professor who can't teach will naturally have no % commission income to get from, and naturally be weed it out of system. Bad student who didn't study will get fired. While good professor can scale out their salary extremely fast. Imagine if each student gave 5% of their salary to professor as omission. Within 2 years, you effectively get 200% of a student salary passively. Good professor could probably be making a million each year depend on how long the commission period last.
@@ashraile yourcheapdate's point wasn't that international students "unfairly" pay more to attend the university. The point was that yourcheapdate was UNFAIRLY dropped in order to get more revenue from the international students.
I recently finished a Ph.D. and this video speaks a lot of truth. I had a lot of international friends personally as a natural born US citizen. I went out of my want to befriend them. But more often than not... there were social bubbles with the Chinese students especially having trouble breaking out of their own circles. There was a self-fulfilling prophecy in that they thought the native students had no interest in interacting with them, and the native students thought the international students wanted to keep to themselves so there was rarely a bridge building opportunity to fix that. When the school had a buddy system for 1st year grad students, that helped a little bit, but there were still issues....
But also... glad the video points out the fact that higher publication rate actually means LOWER quality teaching. It is stigmatized within some departments to have high teaching evaluations. I personally LOVED teaching, however, I had some nightmare experiences where a department actually tried to punish me for it. Healthcare Triage has a podcast that delves into issues within science itself that's perpetuating this issue, but it's within the culture of academia. Also, the number of publications doesn't speak to the quality of them... And if you've ever known a professor that loves research, rarely do they love teaching. Research professors see teaching as a waste of time and a necessary evil to simply keep the position. This sentiment has been stated by MULTIPLE people across MULTIPLE departments across MULTIPLE schools I have been at. This isn't the feeling of 1 or 2 anti-social people... it's the norm across academia. There are also professors with the mindset that students just want to be handed high grades without having to work for it... And yes... there are some of those students... but the majority I have worked with want the grade they've earned and want to work for that grade... And while I could launch into another discussion about how we put FAR too much emphasis on grades and success in ways that are detrimental, there are professors that ascribe this to all students, and their teaching style is very condescending. Students who usually show up to class want to actually get something out of that class. But when research is king... that's not professors behave. In an specific example, when I was a Ph.D student, another grad student went so far out of their way to avoid contact with students, we constantly had issues on testing days when all the discussion sections tested together, none of the students in this person's section knew her name. Because she never told them. And then her office hours were set at 8am on Monday morning (which often overlapped with other classes people were taking, and isn't a time people are going to show up if they don't have to.
Sounds like Dems would love this.
screw integration, just keep importing for our own gain.
If apprenticeship is like parenting, the modern schools are orphanages.
I'm in my final year of bachelor's degree so I don't have as much experience as you, but I haven't encountered such a big proportion of professors who view teaching the way you describe (very accurately, btw: they are condescending, put zero effort into teaching and then call students lazy when they're unable to understand or remember their crappy course). In my experience they have been a minority thankfully, but they do plague higher education... I'm not sure how this problem could be solved though, because you can't really force someone to enjoy teaching.
@@juliee593 it really depends on the school you attend. You’re far more likely to run into professors who hate teaching at R1 institutions (bit research schools) though that also varies by state and department and major. When I was in Michigan and Kentucky, everyone in my department was fine teaching, but Texas and California…. Not so much. My ex-bro-in-law works in Florida where teaching is also looked down upon over research.
I didn’t specialize in Org Com, but I always remember the most important lessons of my classes in it which are that company culture and attitudes are decided at the top, and those attitudes trickle down to everyone. However, as time moves moves forward, you see more and more policies to use teaching as punishment and hiring people who have disdain for teaching. If you went to a smaller school or state college, you likely had a much better experience as you had more lecturers teaching as opposed to research professors.
that's easy, from my undergraduate experience, White, Hispanic and African all love to play with the same race，that's common, why Asian have to play with other races？
As a student in a UK university, this video PERFECTLY matches the situation found here. The size of the bubble is growing by the day and professors themselves tell us that they aren't allowed to make requests like "raising the English level for the entry" since the University just shuts them down immediately. This is when they have to give interviews and spots to people who DO NOT speak or understand English. The same students you then have to work in a group with. I have had Indian, British, Spanish, Brazilian and all other kinds of nationals as friends, but literally only 1 Chinese, and it turns out he's the only one who bothered to learn some level of English instead of speaking mandarin at the back of the class and use only WeChat.
This was my experience, too, a few years ago. They form their own isolated cliques and are seldom seen outside of specific hours at specific courses. I'd seen and met people doing all sorts of courses and made many close friends, yet mainland Chinese where the only group of international students to never socialise.
@@OutOfNamesToChoose Is it a problem to be mainly focused on academics and not socializing?
@@bluehotdog2610 I'm not talking about going partying. I'm talking about introducing themselves and speaking to other people even about what goes on withing the course itself. Many of these things aid academic learning. I suspect it may be because accepted standards of English are lower for mainlanders than they are for Hong Kongers. It's an arrogant sense of wanting to attend in name only without integrating as a student.
In other words, they should talk to others as they do with their mainland clique.
My friends told me a similar experience, she is still studying in the UK and was frequently teamed up with int student who knew little to no english. She told me abt this 1 indian guy who barely did any group work but still passed the class despite doing nothing.
I would have to disagree. at my university in the UK, I made a lot of great Chinese friends. Yes, they didn't make the first move and they often just stick to their comfort zones in their groups of Chinese people. But if you just make the first move or show your friendliness, they will warm up to you. That's my experience.
It's the same as being a British student in a non-English speaking country. It's more comfortable to just stick with other English speaking internationals than cozy up to the native students.
As a Chinese international student in Canada since the age of 13, I agree it's mostly true. Also the reason why Chinese are usually by themselves is because of the language/culture barriers. You can hit it off with a person speaking the same language as you very quickly, and barely knowing a guy who is communicating with you in English for 6 months. The level of conversation between different cultures just doesn't go as deep, unless you are really trying. In the beginning I wanted to make some local friends, then I gave up after one year. It's not that I didn't want to. The kids talking to me found it awkward too, especially in high school when popularity is a thing. Entering University, many Chinese students are like what's stated in the video, first time in a foreign country. So it's much easier for them to find support and share common interests with other Chinese students.
Now I am working in the UK (London) and 99% of my colleagues are non-Chinese; many of them not British either, such as Italians and South Americans. I found it much easier making friends with them because when both parties are not local, it's easier to be empathetic.
"social bubbles" you're not kidding, I've had a lot of trouble trying to work with chinese students. they tend to avoid me, and everyone else that isnt chinese. makes it very hard to finish group assignments.
True! I'm trying not to be judgy, but Chinese students just tend to group amongst themselves (there are a few exceptions though)
@@windywendi That's more a people thing than Chinese thing. When I studied in China, the English-speaking int'l students isolated themselves in their group as well.
@@yabwee2 Yeah, I used to live in China as well, there are bars where westerners hang out with each other but not local Chinese
I studied in Germany and France. And I have seen a lot of chinese students. I always noticed that most of the time when they isolate, they just cant speak the language. Another thing is, they will most of the time never make the first step. If you are talking to them first, they will talk to you like there is no morning
@@Nadox15 I think these Chinese students just aren't sure if the locals are friendly to them. If you speak to them first, they assume you are friendly and talk to you more.
I TA'd at a top US Business School for my Master's and I can say that every aspect of this video is spot on! Roughly 40% of the student body was Chinese nationals, they barely spoke English and only hung out with other Chinese students. When I graded papers you could tell that most of them were struggling with the material as they had very limited capacity for English and most of the lectures they paid for services back home to translate them to mandarin for them. Interestingly, from my admittedly limited sample set, by far the best performing group in the student body was the Indian students. Their English was perfect, they performed very well on assignments and tests, and made great partners for group assignments!
When online learning becomes the norm, and it will, the Chinese students won't have to pretend they're integrating socially, or enjoying the buffet at Lucky Panda, or 16-hour flights. Likewise, the schools won't have to pretend they're teaching anything and just carry on cashing the checks. Everyone wins.
Yep British colonization will do that
That’s because we have exposure to English language right from the kindergarten. The Chinese don’t.
I'm a Chinese student. It is easy to understand why they don't speak English and hang out with Americans. Firstly, native speakers surely like to speak the first language, which is clearer to them, so they prefer to talk to Chinese. Secondly, xenophobia is serious. Especially, the recent two years as you can see. And the problem of Americans is they don't want to pay high tuition, so there will be someone willing to pay for it. The last point, it is hard to communicate with foreigners as Chinese because of different political attitudes. For the Chinese, if you don't get a job in the US, it doesn't matter just going back to China. However, Indians won't want to go back to India. Btw, I plan to go back as well after graduating.... The US is not really attractive; we just need its reputation to find a better job actually.
US college spots should be reserved for Americans. International students can learn elsewhere.
As someone who has attended university throughout the entire pandemic, my university is far from perfect even in the best of circumstances. In these times, many flawed systems have presented themselves. But even so, it’s *so* much better learning from an on site university course than from an online class. It continually surprises me when people say the pandemic has made them realise that there might be less need for classrooms in the future. If anything, I’ve learned the opposite. Even though we do have the technology, the experience is so much worse for a lot of students.
I’m one of those people who likes learning online rather than offline. It’s all up to preference to be honest. I’ve been at a large university here in America and when I was on campus, I realized my professors weren’t really doing the best job at teaching me where I could self study. My grades went up 20%. So yeah I think making it an option for some is nice
I think it depends on the subject. I'm fine taking a computer science class but a speech or physics class would be much more preferable in person imo.
Agreed with both replies, it really depends on the subject. If you are majoring in computer science then it is better to have online class, but for major that require on site laboratory it would be better to have a on site class
@@dhan1001 having taken one computer science class online and two in person, I much prefer in person. Being able to quickly and easily ask other people for help is really useful and much harder to do online. Also, teachers tend to use PowerPoint when lecturing online and it’s much harder to follow and take notes than someone in person writing on a blackboard.
There could be a hybrid model, or at least something that is far more efficient/less costly
I attended Goshen College and many people said I should have gone to a big state school instead. I appreciated the lower teacher student ratio. It felt more intimate and creative. Some professors even held classes in their homes. I wanted that personal feel rather than getting lost in a crowd.
Wow, never heard of that before. But wouldn't it bring logistical problems to students to go to their professors' homes regularly (unless they have in-campus housing)?
@@Gabsboy123 most professors lived walking distance from campus. And all students were required to live on campus, so it was not an issue. I only know of a handful of professors who did that, but they made sure people could get to classes. There were even campus cars that could’ve rented by students for free for classes that had labs outside at a nature preserve off campus. Logistics at a smaller institution were pretty easy. I doubt that could be done easily at a big school.
：）
Classic case of the principal-agent problem. Considering the 2008 crisis that spurred the hunt for international students was also majorly influenced by the principal-agent problem (including conflict of interest on the side of rating agencies), bullshit never changes.
Haha, economics go brrrrrrrrr
We are seeing all this because of the Gaokao as there are not interviews, extra curriculum etc.... but in other countries things are also like this. In Portugal for example the ''Gaokao'' of here will be 50-100% of your enterance in any University of the country and still we did not have this kind of preassure, I think it comes to Chinese Competitiveness
Chinese Canadian here: We… also deal with this problem, and coming from what’s a ok but not great school, I’d say about 75% of my imported classmates had serious problems with the language alone (and about 90% threw an ungodly amount of money at expensive stuff).
Also: Google is banned in china. They probably use Baidu.
@@Ornobz In my experience some people go around the problem by having their children attend Canadian high school (maybe 50 out of my 220 student graduating class were in this boat). It is certainly expensive, but it generally allows a student to dodge the more difficult exams (plus, Canadian high schools can also be dodged by paying even more money- private schools are a joke, but the government doesn’t crack down on them).
The end result: out of maybe 40-50 “imported” students about 5-6 could speak English fluently (in my experience, all of them are staying in an English-speaking country- one is doing a Graduate degree in London). However, all of them got into university somehow despite their English deficencies.
Edit- Spelling error.
@@OrnobzThe thing is that a decent IELTS score doesn't really translate into being very good at english. The test is standardised, most people memorise volcab, exemplar essays and rehearse oral exams, in order to pass. I've seen students at my school (intl school in Shanghai) who can achieve 7.0 on IELTS or 100+ on TOEFL but still get a D in the english course (which is more about english literature but still) Just because they know how to pass the test doesn't really translate into being able to communicate or even feeling comfortable to communicate.
@@spookyghostwriter3110 If they can graduate from a 4 year Canadian high school, that still isn't enough to indicate their English level? Even though they can dodge the IELTS, isn't passing 4 years of English classes in high school more difficult than passing the IELTS?
@@joannaxuan4265 True. I am a graduate student here in the US that has a cut-off for TOEFL but many Chinese students (along with a few Indian and Pakistani students) have to take additional English classes to be qualified for a Teaching Assistantship
If they’re kids that want to go abroad they’ve definitely heard of VPN.
I am an international student from Thailand. The situation is a bit diffraction from China, but South East Asia is also another group of international students boost for universities especially for Australia. Rankings feedback loop is something I wish there can a better classification system then assigning numbers. Fun fact, universities nowadays offer you a chance to take course from other university in the same city, doesn’t matter if lower or higher rankings. Ultimately I think the best way to select the right university is to ask you yourself what you interested in and what city or country suits that interested the most. Ranking or popularity are still somewhat ok to look at but dont take it too seriously.
I actually fall into the category very well. I was terrible at high school study and went to international school to escape Gaokao. To be honest, at the age of 15 when i was in high school. I didn’t realize how important Gaokao is to my life and luckily i was able to go to US to study. Gaokao won’t determine what your future life would be but would have tremendous impact on the first job you could get. When i was applying to school, it actually didn’t went well because of my language test score and GPA but luckily I was able to go to a public school ranked closing to 100. And indeed, the USNEWS and QS ranking are the most important factor that i consider. In my sophomore year, i transferred into another public school because again it ranks around 50 so which in my mind was a better school. My freshman year GPA was less than 3.0 but I managed to 3.3 in the sophomore year when i realized how i did matters. After four years of study, i graduated with distinction. Then i went to an Ivy League school for graduate study. Now i worked at one of the top firm in Shanghai which i would never had this chance if I took Gaokao.
Study abroad to me has some major advantages. The first one obviously is escaping the population pressure and Gaokao is one of the key to maintain fairness. Secondly, It gives people like me who like to play at a young age and don’t know the importance of study a second chance. To many other people who came from 3rd or 4th tier cities means more, usually when they work in China, they would go to 1st tier cities like Shanghai, Beijing, and Shenzhen. The intensity of the these cities are high causing finding jobs tremendously hard. Also, buying an apartment at these cities are very close to buying one in NYC whereas you earn a lot less money in cities like Shanghai. Thus studying abroad offers these people chances to live a life in major cities with opportunities but at the same time with less pressure comparing to living in Shanghai.
Though my life changed due to this opportunity, i also see many others still suffer from college and went home without any job offerings. So i would say the real opportunities is at your hands. Also, although rankings are flawed but remember this is also the only source for many leading Chinese companies to hire graduates, that’s why ranking is such important.
Your experience was very enlightening for me. From this, you could conclude that the Western universities though faulted with profit incentives offer a very fair chance at a higher education if one is willing to strive for it whereas the Gaokao is perhaps the root of the problem by limiting the opportunities to students who might not take school serious while they are still young and naïve.
@@daivdsmith3746 A very fair chance, indeed. But only for students whose parents can pay multiple times the tuition than local students, who can afford their kids' housing, grocery, and potential a BMW for their kids. That is something more like a treat for the rich. Not all students are rich. that is why GaoKao, which does not need you to hire a middle man, to "pay" for your volunteer exp, does not need you to have a "reference letter ", and does not need you to pay anything for kayaking, golfing, piano, violin to write your personal statement, is fair in CN.
This video is SO cathartic. I attended the disgrace of a university known as "The National University of Singapore" a school ranked 9th in the world, yet every single other college I've attended in the West has been orders of magnitude superior. NUS "Engineering" is a pitiful pathetic excuse of pure rote learning, close to zero project and lab work and final exams worth 80% of the grades and classes with 200+ students to 1 professor in lectures, with some rubbish excuse for a TA, often a china student, who can't even speak proper English in the "tutorials". To put things into perspective, I took a summer school at the University of Alaska that is ranked 500+++ in the world, and it was vastly better than anything singapore has to offer.
Another factor that rankings are inaccurate about is the graduate employability factor. In the US each school has to compete with hundreds if not thousands of others. In a place like singapore, there are 3 main universities. Big surprise that the graduates are employed when there is basically zero competition. Thankyou so much for calling out NTU.
@@w2385-i2s no shade, but it’s naive and kind of narrow-minded to think that the US and UK are the only countries that can provide education in “proper English”
@@fsantos4199 Well Singapore has been a trade/port city for many many decades, not to mention the close ties to the British. Everyone there can speak English and are very internationally minded so it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a decent level of English, suitable for a country that does business with the world. Especially given the rankings.
Bro you are not from NUS, are you? Zero competition? LMAO. NUS and NTU are the most academically competitive place in the world. The mugging culture is intense
But my impression is that NUS simply doesn’t have a good engineering program? Even if at harvard or Princeton, there are sub-par programs….
@@w2385-i2s yeah. But English is Singapore’s official language and many ppl’s first language. Also if the teaching language is English, professors and TAs should have some level of proficiency?
As someone two months away from graduating high school, this videos intro hit close to home
Good luck buddy
Same here
I graduated in 2019. Make sure you are prioritizing in finding out what you *actually* want to do. It’s probably the biggest decision of your life.
Remember you can always sell drugs
@@bennelong8451 y e s
I study at NYU Shanghai... and I can see on basically everyone around me how important the rankings are. It is like a game, only your life depends on it. Both students and parents calculating whether their kid should go study abroad or go to the best unis in China looking at their Gaokao, our students looking at NYU Shanghai's rating in China worried it is not famous enough to land them a decent job... It is crazy and scary at the same time.
Basically your exam scores define your social class and worth for the rest of your life
@@_ashmason007 You don't really belive capitalism can last that long do you? China can not escape the problems inherit in the Imperialist way of life by calling it Socialism with Chinese characteristics. You don't escape the problems of capitalism by putting a so called communist party in charge.
Isn't that the Same every where
@@mchammer3927 it isn't like that anywhere except maybe china, india, korea, japan, and the remaining southeast Asia. The rest of the world no
@@_ashmason007 Its the educated middle class that identifies most with the promise of a meritocracy created by capitalism. At the same time the spread of world culture and ideas undermines all the promise of a capitalism in world crisis. For those left behind in the dog eat dog scramble called capitalism are not without culture or intelligence.
I’m glad my country doesn’t have such a competitive system. Here everyone chooses whatever uni they like. If its public you can just enroll and start attending classes, and if it’s private it’s basically the same but you have to pay. A long time ago, public universities used to have admission tests, but they were switched for a “basic common cycle”, that’s basically a full year that prepares you for the actual university, where you review contents from high school (plus learn new ones). There are classes that are common to all students from every faculty and degree, but other classes depend on what degree you are following (so if you enrolled into medicine you will have “introduction to biophysics”, but an engineering student will have algebra and regular physics) This admission thing was changed because it was unfair. Since there are people who can afford private classes to take the exams but some other people can’t. So they are basically teaching you in university what you would need to know to begin the actual degree, therefore, everyone gets to study at university regardless of what high school they went or if they can or can’t afford private tutoring. And if you are already prepared you can just take the tests and begin sooner, you aren’t forced to attend the classes, it’s totally up to you.
What country if you don't mind sharing?
@@max3446 sounds like Germany
I can't imagine having a fair system, like when you live in countries like China, it destroys you. You cannot imagine living in a non corrupt decent country. Literally. All i can think of is test scores. That's it. That's your entire childhood and adolescence. No memories nothing. And the depression and fear seizing you once you don't get lucky or aren't smart enough to get into a good or even decent college. Some employers don't even bother coming to the bad or low ranked colleges bc the competition is that bad
@@Hhhh22222-w I think argentina use this system too
@@_ashmason007 same in turkey
In fact, universities in China are enrolling an increasing number of postgraduate students. The supply of postgraduate programs applicants is also exploding. I don't think it's because students choose postgraduate programs out of interest. It's just a lot of pressure out there in the job market for them to get a higher degree before they can get a job they are happy with.
I love the research methodology in the video, but I can’t entirely agree with the conclusions as a Chinese. The cycle of school rankings will continue for some time.
First, the overall number of international students in China is unlikely to decline significantly in recent years; the decline in the number of US Chinese international students is only an exception to this trend. Due to China's official propaganda and folk ideas, many Chinese students study science and engineering at universities. However, due to the Sino-US tension, the US has rejected many visa applications for these students, which has raised students' concerns about certainty after their admissions. The security in the US and its performance in the COVID-19 pandemic do have an impact; China’s foreign propaganda is not as significant as the video suggests - as long as you are rich enough, it is safe to study in any country. If you don't go to the US, then choose another country - the UK and Australia have had more Chinese students in the past two years.
Second, increased competition in China still encourages more families to study abroad. The video mentions China's "Zhongkao" and "Gaokao", but we also have a higher-level national examination: "Kaoyan" (Graduate School Entrance Examination). Except for a small number of outstanding students who can go to graduate school without taking this exam, the remaining who wish to further their studies must take it. But the competition for graduate school is more intense than the gaokao: only about 13% of candidates succeed. Despite the difficulties of further education, Chinese students often have to have a postgraduate degree to get a decent job. As the Chinese are "buying" a master's degree in the end, because foreign universities use applications for admission, studying abroad basically can secure a place in a certain university. In addition, the losers in the previous brutal competition will also choose to study abroad as their plan B.
Finally, while I don't know what's happening elsewhere globally, school ranking is an easy-to-use tool in China. While Chinese are happy to cite rankings to gain "face" for themselves, employers and government agencies are also happy to use school rankings as a reference: a person who graduated from a QS50 school has the opportunity to receive the same treatment as a graduate of China's first-class universities - although it is much more difficult to enter a first-class Chinese university through the "Gaokao" and "Kaoyan".
The school rankings are a banquet where everyone is drunk and dreaming. As long as human beings desire to compare, we can't get rid of various rankings.
Don’t forget all the anti-Asian hate crimes in the past 2 years where people of Asian descent were killed, assaulted, robbed, or insulted.
In the past few days alone, there’s been 5 stabbings and 1 hammer attack on Asians already.
@@tre4993 Indeed, hate crimes against Asians are increasing. But I think it would not block the majority of Chinese families because the overall rate of crimes that cause actual injuries and property loss is still low. So many people just believe it won't happen to them. In comparison, an easy-to-get master's degree is assured.
Amazing explanation.
That's very insightful. You're right, like money it doesn't matter wether rankings have any real basis as long as people agree it has importance.
@@DavidSmith-nx3zw Oh, so you’re just a troll?
Small correction: you can get bonus points on your gaokao if you're sufficiently good at something (drawing, running, etc.)
My wife's aunt paid for her daughter (my wife's cousin) to receive after-school painting lessons in the hopes of qualifying for the extra points. Unfortunately her painting didn't quite make the mark, so she didn't get any bonus points on the gaokao.
Also you get bonus points if you are ethnic minority.
Don't you think that system of yours is flawed? One shot at a test that determines your whole professional life? That's counter-productive and cruel, in my opinion.
@@holocene2164 I'm a Chinese-American, so it's not really my system.
Personally I don't think it's great. I can understand *why* they're doing it, though.
People say it's less important on what you know than who you know, and that's 10 times more true in the PRC than anywhere else. Theoretically it's supposed to be a great equalizer.
Doesn't work out that way...but it's not like you can only take the test once. It's once a year, but if you do poorly you can take a year to study and then try again. My sister in law did that.
@@holocene2164 It's definitely flawed, and everyone in China knows this fact. They have been trying to redesign gaokao system for a long time, but you know redesign a system of this scale takes time and trials (there are areas using different experimental gaokao), so for the time being students still have only one way out right now.
@@holocene2164 Annual nationwide standardized entrance exams are a very common thing. Neighbouring South Korea also does it, as do dozens of other countries worldwide. Meanwhile the alternative used in the US has its own issues, as it's been extensively shown to be highly unfair i.e. it favors the rich heavily.
Ten years ago I got accepted to the oldest, most prestigeous and best ranked university in the country. My department was of a very low quality. There were old and wrong information on the webside, the online information system did not work properly, teachers varied in quality, they were often late or even skipped the classes, the study plan had flaws and student did not have anyone to ask for help. It was a mess. I was desperate. I was not able to finish and I quitted. I saw it as my huge failiure. Three years ago, I applied again, I got accepted to the same university to the same department, and this time, everything was great. All the problems were fixed, the bad teachers fired, quality of teaching improved massivelly and we have amazing support from the teachers and the staff. I am finishing my bacheor degree just now. What I am trying to say is that any ranking, any single number about the quality of the university can't say anything about the quality of your department. And it is your department - not the rest of the university - what determines the quality of education and treatment of students.
As an international student I was super upset when I had to go to a "lesser" ranked school as compared to a higher ranked school. But now that I'm a doemstic student at the same lesser ranked school, I'm really happy I'm at this school. There is so much more that goes into choosing a university than mere rankings.
I'm learning Chinese and I have several Chinese language partners to practice with. They told me that the past 4-5 years, there's been a huge shift where Chinese companies are more in favor of hiring local grad students than an overseas educated fresh grad. They found that local grads are more driven to succeed and have more essential basic skills to start their career. Of course, those who graduated in the top 20-25 world ranking universities are still favored as well.
True. But also more the result of local grads knowing how to navigate the local system and having a few years ahead of non-local grads to build out their own network locally. Chinese companies are very different from overseas companies…
Not only that most of Students get more success than the a students.
But hey thank god we I go to local college instead.
Most of the Chinese international students at these overseas universities aren't proficient enough in English so instead they throw money at someone to write their essays/do their homework. Same students who drive lambos and maseratis and park next to red curbs in front of the university.
@@Chris-qh5tz I know what you mean tho I am not from China but from foreign's perspective of view it is really getting bad that most of us are being naive with grades now than value it's sad that we're taking this initaltive as a goal.
If they have political ties to the party, family connection, or come from elite wealthy background, they still get top or favorable jobs after they get their degree from outside of China.
As someone who is an undergrad at a very, very prestigious university, I can confirm that the actual student experience is dreadful, teaching is a nightmare and the dropout rate is enormous. I really wish I'd gone to a less prestigious but more fun uni, and I'm definitely frustrated at myself for letting rankings and reputation play such a big role in choosing my university.
Different ppl thrive under different environments, I am the opposite of you, not everyone is suited for intense competition and expedition, some people can push themselves good enough even under “peaceful” environment, not me lol
I do not know how far you are in your education or the number of grants you received, but these people do not deserve your sweat. If it is in your power, you're young and an adult. You could leave. No one cares about where you went to undergrad anymore especially if you're heading into a career field with a long road of study.
Where do you go Elizabeth?
@@bentownsend4017 oxford
@@elizabethh5022 LMAO nevermind, I thought you were in America because of the video. There are too many good state schools with good connections for any reasonable employer to care. I'm not sure about the U.K. but I'm assuming Oxford/Cambridge must have more weight due to the size. Girl, good luck.
The pressure to get into a good school is so intense that in my community college; an administrator and I witnessed two Chinese students distributing pre-filled scantrons and exams to their friends. The issue was brought up (with video evidence) to the school Dean, only to be shot down because in the Dean's words: 'we need their money'. Academia died for me that day.
All of these students went on unpunished and got full rides to schools like UCLA and Berkeley.
Yes,Money!No one dont love Money
No one gives a shit about academics. We oy care about gaining relevant skills.
@@j.c.4192 Most people do still care about "academics"...
Till someone notices there is no one left doing the "normal" jobs.
@@ickebins6948 the truth is there will always be enough people to do the "normal" jobs. It's whether the normal jobs have a good salary to make them worth doing.
@@daivdsmith3746 The "truth" is, thats already not true anymore... Atleast where I live...
There are a lot of good paying jobs, nobody is qualified for anymore.
I'm from NTU Singapore. A faculty had a 80% reduction in education budget and the money was routed to research. This happened around the time when NTU's skyrocket to top 20 in the world for that faculty. Education got worse, much worse.
Always, been
May I ask which faculty?
@Naikomi but do they have opportunities?
OMG! videos like this are much needed. Being an international student in Canada, UK and Poland in last 5 years, I have seen this and been through it. I exactly did found these schools how this video has mentioned and experienced the same less integratation with locals and over charged as stated. I truly believe if we will something to keep us consistent and motivated to do study- we do not need these universities.
I'm an international student in the master's program in one of the US top universities but I'm not from China. In 2021, all American students took classes online, and international students had to take classes in person to keep their visas. So my classes were me... and 12 Chinese students. I like to talk during classes, and I try to make sure that my English is good enough to speak in a class on the same level as native speakers. One of my goals for this education is to get my English to a level close to native speakers. But students from China, they couldn't care less about classes, they'd just come, spend 2 hours during something online and leave. They only cared what grade they were going to get for their papers. I haven't heard most of them speak English at all, they'd come to a class in their groups, and they leave the class in same groups. And most of them are barely able to speak English at all, like one guy literally took a whole minute to say a pretty simple short sentence word by word. Worst of all, they all were 22-23 yo, and they actually had no idea why they needed a master's program at all. They just come here because their parents want them to have a nice diploma, a piece of paper with a cool school name instead of knowledge. So of course they look at ratings, because all they ultimately need are status and a nice line on a resume, not real knowledge, experience and professionalism. The fact that American colleges exploit this demamd for a pretty piece of paper is moronic, it really drops the education quality for all those, who come for education, not just a diploma. But really the problem is that the US has become an educational and prestige colony for Chinese parents, who don't appreciate the value of education and knowledge
Your idea of gaining knowledge from master's Program is ridiculous. Most knowledge you leant during undergrad and post-grad wont be used at all. you really need to find a new argument.
@@Alan-pm3py Knowledge in tech is quite useful
good to hear u be friendly with chinese people. Bless ur heart
US schools are better overall. It's not the fault of the school that students don't learn English or spend their time studying. Most schools require an 80 or higher on the TOEFL to even be considered for admission. There are guardrails. But wealthy Chinese Families circumvent guardrails by paying off testing centers and doing other shady shit.
Despite this, a committed student who comes to learn, takes the time to form connections with native students, and strives to excel, will get a much higher quality of education here than they could in their own countries.
You Russian?
I taught at a college program in China that was for students that were going to university overseas. They *had* to go overseas because in order to study in this program, they had to drop out of Chinese school and did not take the gaokao. Before enrolling in the school, parents are sat down in the auditorium and told they need to have close to half a million dollars to even start between tuitions, flights and visas. Running out of money midway would be a disaster.
The school also had a very robust college counseling program that advised students on which ones to apply to and helped with that program. It was a tug of war at times because we were accredited and did not write essays for students or allow cheating on GCSE and A level exams. Parents didn’t always understand our unwillingness to ‘help’ in ways that are considered cheating and we wouldn’t send college essays known to be bought.
Our students did very well on exams and outside inspectors regularly observed the exams process because the scores raised suspicion.
The school also gathered data on students’ success overseas after finishing the program. The biggest challenge to Chinese students going to the US and similar places with Liberal Arts required courses, humanities classes were often the ones causing Chinese students to fail. Some of those parents that were warned and steered to UK universities or other programs that don’t have these courses would resist based on prestige. (Oxford and Cambridge excluded.) Most parents said they would rather have their kids be accepted and fail out of a prestigious school rather than finish at a mid level school.
These students from wealthy families often fell outside many of the rules in China, so expecting to be able to pay for success makes sense. Our head of school was a member of the PRC’s political party and also illegally held a second passport along with her kids. (Dual citizenship is not allowed in China.) One student’s whole school presentation was about how to bypass China’s internet firewall and nobody even blinked.
The recent banning of tutoring centers in China cuts the rising middle class out of overseas education, almost entirely. It is seen as a way of keeping control in the country.
Uh. . . Banning tutoring companies is nothing but a fairer opportunity for poor families. Now the teaching ability of many European and American universities is also questioned. There are also fewer and fewer prestigious overseas schools that are recognized.
The part you said about them being steered to the uk is so true. I live by a uni accommodation district in london and 90% of the students I see are native East Asian students. I’m assuming most of them go to the top unis like kings, ucl and imperial
Thank you for writing this insightful comment. It's a shame that kids are expected to do things like this with so much pressure.
Malcolm Gladwell did a piece on this for his Revisionist History podcast series. He basically reached the same conclusions about the university ranking system. Based on your analysis, I don't think he went nearly far enough.
Thanks for pointing this out. I was thinking of his Dillard episodes while listening to this.
A fellow listener 😊 I recommend these episodes particularly because Gladwell came at it from a much less 'scientific data analysis'aproach yet came to a very similar conclusion.
In Sweden, schools aren't allowed to make money.
There are private schools but if I understand it correctly they can only stuff their pockets with X amount each year.
Based
I think that its also the case in the US
Don't tell this to usa where there is money to be made in everything
Lol, almost all US schools are nonprofit.
I think charted schools in the US are not allowed to make money either cause they receive government funding but through stuff like hiring consultants for managing the school and stuff through a company which is owned by them they can indirectly make money
0:29: 🎓 Each year, millions of high school graduates face the challenge of choosing a college without sufficient information.
3:16: 📚 The education system in Hong Kong and the US is influenced by government funding and economic conditions.
7:20: 🎓 Rankings of American colleges are unreliable and misleading, especially for Chinese international students.
9:51: 📚 International students contribute significantly to the rankings of US colleges, but often struggle with language barriers and social isolation.
13:07: 😡 Rankings are flawed and primarily measure reputation rather than research quality.
16:24: 🎓 Rankings in education institutions create a harmful cycle of exploitation and deception.
19:40: 💡 The safety of international students in American schools is a major concern and may disrupt the higher education system.
Recap by Tammy AI
I paid no attention to college rankings when picking my school. I was solely concerned with what kind of Film/Video production program they offered, how much it would cost, and what kind of experience I would get on campus. I ended up with Western Michigan University after the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor) rejected me.
Only now do I realize what college rankings are, and thankfully they didn't play any part in my college search.
How did you determine which film programs were the best ones to apply to?
To be fair, UofM is a really good school and it isn’t very pricy if you’re in-state. I am in the middle of applying for PhD programs, and after visiting some other high-ranking universities, Michigan really seems to deserve their spot, which is very impressive since they’re public and very open to in-state applicants. If you only plan on getting a bachelors however, it doesn’t really seem to make a difference between most universities.
I also assessed only the particular department I would be studying in before choosing my school. I thought that this kind of thing would be obvious to people, but apparently not.
@@avinashtyagi2 I compared what the programs actually taught you and what they focused on. WMU has a more broad major, which I like. Of course I have to have a minor, so I went with an audio technical minor. I want to learn about digital audio and perhaps digital music creation.
@@offbeat4772 UofM is definitely a good school, no doubt. It is just god awful hard to get into. I made he mistake of sending my SAT score. I really should have not sent it because they were test optional, and by sending it I think I screwed myself over. Oh well.
My experience recalls that mature professors tend to be exceptionally boring, and graduate instructors more often lively & interesting.
Fantastic. The testing to see who knows real things is offensive, the entertainment is valuable. Your doctor will be a real cut up!
@@patricialongo5746 LoL. One of the desired skills of a teacher is how to present knowledge that "sinks-in", not that causes eyes to "glaze-over". Practicing medicine is not the same as teaching. Maybe you don't want to be cut up by a doctor who is "practicing" on you, but is expressing a real skill? Never mind that failure is the best teacher, that's just practice anyway.
Graduate instructors are the most passionate people ever in teaching in the US. They are paid poverty level wages for those classes because they don't have PhD and don't contribute to research rankings. If they have a master and teaches part time at your college, that means they are so passionate with their job that they accept those piss poor wage just to be able to teach students. I go to a private university with $54k tuition (luckily i have financial aid), which accounts to 1.8k/credit. One course at my school is 3-4 credits, so that means 1 student pays 5.4k - 7.2k per class. The graduate instructor for the course is paid 3-4k/class. Literally less than what 1 full-pay student paid to the school.
3:20 - You say the second highest "concentration", but this is not true. They have the second highest raw quantity of billionaires, but concentration implies quantity per unit, in this case population. When you adjust for population size, you'll find that several counties, such as the United States and Germany, have a greater concentration of billionaires.
Glad someone poined it out.
You got him there
He did not say "per population", he was talking about "per country" as the chart he showed implies. He is just using different "units" than you are. He is right and you are right.
@@PsYKoTx I think it's fair to point out that China wouldn't do as well with 'per capita' while the author of the video chose to use the 'per country' number to comment on China being high while ironically communist
@@Polo004xD There definitely is a thick layer of irony, but as OP pointed out, it's not due to the concentration of billionaires living in the country. The irony comes in regarding how capitalist these constrained yet still somewhat laissez-faire "special economic zones" in China like HK and Shenzhen can be that would encourage the creation of that many billionaires despite the CCP's eternal cursing upon them. There were many changes that took place since Deng Xiaoping's era back in the 80s, but he's honored to this day for revolutionizing the country's approach to economics despite still intending for an end goal of a communistic society.
Whether or not that end goal is still feasible is another story, but China has always been a country full of contradictions. Heck, the Chinese word for "contradiction" is commonly found in so many Eastern countries' languages as well, since it's renowned for having origins in an ancient Chinese folk tale.
I remember in the 90s hearing that U of Michigan Ann Arbor (main Campus) had to quickly open up another dorm and admit more MI students because they accidentally admitted too many foreign students and were at risk of loosing their State University standing and the money that it represents.
Bravo! Thank you for talking about this! I was a part of this "game" while I lived and worked in Shenzhen for almost five years. There are so many horror stories and examples I could share, but I'll just pick this one from the last "English Training Center" that I worked at.
During the summer break (which is not a break for students at all) this centre got a lot of new demo students, which us the teachers managed to get them interested in the courses. The parents had to pay a semester in advance, as is usual there. Some of the lessons, "VIP", or one-to-one were about $150 per hour, yet the quality of the knowledge wasn't really there. Old classrooms, old books, old windows XP PCs and young foreign non-native teachers without experience (which would often be presented as Canadian to the rich Chinese parents). So, the new students were plentiful that year, yet the manager was late with two month's salaries, telling us he'll get it all sorted soon. He sorted it by disappearing, probably off to Malaysia with millions of RMB of the teachers salaries and parents fees. I personally couldn't do anything as I was working on some shady business permit, not a legal, working visa. The lies they told to the parents and the kids were horrifying, and I had so many clashes with the management and the local staff every time they tried to work "around me".
The last year's crackdown made a big change in this swindling sector and now everything's gone online. Next, I assume the Chinese banks will make it impossible to pay someone electronically.
yes!! As a 16 years old Chinese student in Guangdong provice, I have to say you are right.
the goverment is pushing the "double reduction policy", but to be honest ,i don't kown what it plays a substantial role.
@@friescheney1629 They solve one problem, while creating a new one. Gaokao was supposed to equalise everyone, to have a fair chance, but families that had more money could afford additional tutoring. For me, the biggest issue is the mental health of students, not just your age, but even younger students (like 11) develop burnout, fatigue and anxiety... I'm sure you can also share many of these horror stories.
@@Noukz37 Yes! I have 100 days left to take the Chinese senior high school entrance examination. I often feel mentally unwell. My cervical spine is sore from doing homework and playing with the computer. I have more than 300 degrees of myopia. I don’t know how much significance that what I have learned to improve myself. maybe i have some grammer mistakes , but forgive me you should understand , above text is writeen by an 16 years old Chinese student.
@@friescheney1629 Your English is great, trust me. 🙂 Honestly, I don't think a lot of knowledge will remain, and be useful to you later in life. It will be useful to get into a Uni that you want. But there is life AFTER University haha Most parents don't think about that, and just focus on their children's schooling. You try to preserve your physical and mental health, that's most important. Success will come! You might even end up having a job you didn't go to school for at all and be very happy and successful, life is full of surprises! 🌹
I am currently a teaching fellow in a private university in Southeast Asia. If I show this video to my colleagues or fellow academicians, they will get seizures and quickly dismiss the content. I, however, agree with the video about rankings and how it does not define the university quality and how research is being made just to chase rankings but not producing quality output. I see many research papers being made just for that and ended up collecting dust and not making any impact (or very little, if any) to the society. Not to mention, research grants funding are getting tighter and in a lot of cases, cronyism and favouritism ruins the institution.
As long as the future employers still emphasize ranking, this game will never stop..(Even though as a Chinese student I feel that you are talking exactly the point)
I want my doctor to have a ranking. In the USA you can go to a dumb guy.
There are doctor assessment sites.
Google has skills-based training, less about formal education.
Maybe this is the new shift?
@NaikomiThe job market back in China perhaps, as most of the international students actually return to China after the graduation.
Yeah this is what people fail to understand. It is not that the students or the parents don’t know that ranking is flawed and is not a testament for quality, but they know that companies and recruiters in general are give top priority to graduates from these universities. If your only chance at a job is when your graduate from the high ranked universities, you will certainly try to go to them.
@Naikomi dude that's not the real case... uni ranking systems are embbed in many ways, like tier-1 city hukou requirements, some local finance firms' hr systems. It is written on the paper that only those grads from QS top 50 uni (just an example) are qualified to apply.
I used to be so worried about choosing a college since I knew I had no chance getting into universities. I was worried about working in restaurants for the rest of my educational years to pay rent and school. But I find myself in a position as a drafter in a tech company. It’s all thanks to a class I took in high school. I’m now moving to higher positions and I’m barely going into one year of work experience.. I’m saying this to help encourage students here to never give up and take classes that really are going to matter.. engineering is the future and the most payed career out there. If you’re good at a subject, try applying as a tutor. I did that and I was tutoring k-12 kids with basic math/ algebra. There’s so many opportunities out there but you just gotta get out there and try it. Experience is the best teacher.
European unis are affordable, split their research into separate institutes, don't focus on international students and aren't part of this alumni craze or building crazy gyms for their ads. makes them look terrible in rankings, but great irl.
Exactly. If you look at rankings, you may believe that only anglosphere countries have nice unis, there's almost no european, japanese, south-korean... only anglo countries.
@@TheLSales
It's a huge circlejerk.
@@TheLSales There are many universities from UK and Switzerland in ranking. But not any universities form Germany, Norway, Sewden, etc. It seems like rankings are only for private universities trying to make money.
And these top colleges pay top dollar to these “unbiased” ranking companies.
European unis barely invest in research compared to American. Had so many European professors that came because their salary would double and they would also get more funding .
I was aware of some of my school's ranks when I had to start applications, but the way I decided was just by one stat. The university campus was around the other side of the block of my high school campus. Less than 5 minutes by foot. Another advantage of being a local.
As a Hong Kong student studied in UK from the age of 14 to 21 during 90's, did GSSE, A-level, and Bachelor degree. I found some of my Hong Kong fellows were not even try hard on their studies, horrible exam results. But the school still kept them, because of much higher tuition fee.
I felt dismayed that most Hong Kong people and Chinese not even bother to interact with non-Chinese, nor the British media, they are still doing this. The reason they felt their origin media feels "closer", interact with you own fellow countrymen is "closer".
My brother accused me to parents that I tried to pretend as British, parents scolded me as "Don't ever try to do something silly!", you can see the mentality there.
Why pretend to be British. You don't look like them.
@@henli-rw5dw For those born in the colonial period of Hong Kong, you don’t need pretend to be British. Just be yourself, a Chinese citizen of the UK.
@@henli-rw5dw It is embrace, and explore, not pretend. Look different from them is not an issue.
@@kawangkwok5262 Human beings are tribal, we judged by looks. You can learn to be comfortable in UK, but there is nothing wrong with being around people who you feel comfortable with, and that's people who look like you and talk like you.
@@henli-rw5dw I do not agree with that. Probably in some other countries, it wasn't in UK. I met some guys from far South Korea, Vietnam, they got on with the mainstream so well. I take a wild guess that you may probably build that wall in your mind, and that should try to break this wall.
I am in 3rd year Cyber security course in Australia. All of what you said is true.
It is all about money. I am from India and had 90k in tuition fees and I studied there for like year paid 30k and attended a total of 15 days for the year only practical for attendance and no lectures at all and still got 70 plus with minimal studying.
And most of it was what I already learned back at home in grade 12.
Then i changed the institution with less fees and all the study material was same. So there you have it, the economics of financial balancing by the international institutions minting money from students.
It's even worse for Chinese people. Not only does their exam basically determine where they can go but the college you go to is wayyy more important than in the west. The admission matters so much that you can effectively slack off after getting in a college as the college itself doesn't matter past getting in (you'll still pass) .
No it isn't. They're not having their college spots handed out to foreigners by greedy university administrators.
I had a young, clearly wealthy Chinese guy in class with me. He didn't try to work at all. He didn't participate in group assignments. He slacked off consistently, yet this was Community College in WA state. I never thought I'd see so many rich Chinese kids at my discount college. The school has a good reputation but still.
Yeah I'm currently attending a community college after attending "real" college for a few years and I'm surprised there are a lot of international students
The US Universities need not worry. The gap of chinese students will be fulfilled by Indian students. After 10 years the gap of Indian students will be fulfilled by Nigerian Students. As long as US keeps the America brand alive and well, the universities won't have to worry.
But that illustrates the second problem: The America brand is dying.
China is openly hostile. Most Indians look to Europe or Canada for more affordable degrees, and India has started a massive education overhaul program which may see people choose to stay back home. Nigeria is still a few decades away from being able to fill the gap.
@@mvalthegamer2450 Australia too
@@mvalthegamer2450 that new education program you talk about is gonna take at least a decade to be implemented fully and indians are more money saving type of people, so they'll go to Canada instead and after they get there PRs they will eventually move to the states.
America Is Falling 🔶
Remember one side of the coin is the gaokao system and the enormous only-way-to-move-up pressure that comes with it. In the absence of such a structure, not many people don’t want to pay so much money to study abroad. South Korea has a somewhat similar exam system. Japanese system is more relaxed- universities are ranked in rough buckets rather than giving an illusion of precisely measured from the top to bottom.
China is different. China has decided to prevent domestic kleptocracy by admitting based on objective testing, which has pushed all its spoiled rich kids overseas. India is a lot less ideologically egalitarian and will probably just allow the kids of the rich and powerful to rule the best schools.
I was working on a scholarship as a teaching assistant at my local university. There was a Chinese student who seemed pretty smart, but had poor English skills. The class required a lot of writing. I was genuinely concerned about how the university allowed them to take the class without recognizing that they would need a foundation of basic writing skills.
Aren't international students required to have a minimum score in TOEFL/IELTS?
@@sdash6242 Most good universities set their language bar to IELTS > 6 or its TOEFL equivalent. But many universities would accept students to their language preparation program (length varies from couple of weeks to one year with high tuitions) for those foreigner students fail to provide an adequate test result.
As long as he/she could pass the course, it should not be a problem. I mean, he chose to take the risk, it's his responsibility to face the consequences.
I can answer your question. Im a Taiwanese student that also studied abroad. When I was fresh off the boat, of course I mingled with the rich Chinese.
They told me that they cheated the English proficiency test in order to get there, and then they continued cheating their assignments and papers.
I was bribed to write their homework because I at least speak fluent English.
I couldn't do the works out of my major so I asked them to give me some drafts, in English or in Chinese.
I was surprised how these people even graduated middle school. A lot of them can't even write an essay in Chinese, because they also cheated through middle school, and it's easier to do then in the university.
For the rich Chinese kids, the problem isn't just their English proficiency.
I left that circle after making several local friends. Their culture is quite sick.
@@陳查理-c2c Interestingly, as a Chinese student, I have never met that type of Chinese students who you just mentioned. Birds of a feather flock together. I think the situation you described may not happen in a more competitive school. However, I'm happy for you for making the right decision to leave that group.
I am a retired professor who mostly taught STEM courses to graduate students, most of them from China. There is an even more fundamental problem with rankings. The right question is not “What is the best school?” but “What is the best school for me?” Very few 18 year old students have any way to answer that question. Even if they did have a lot of good information, some of the answer depends on what they want to do with their life, such as a career, and most of them have little idea about that.
it may be really hard for others outside china to imagine how insane gaokao can be for students. as reports shown, there are numbers of schools use literally military methods to regulate and educate students with zero relaxation--and for three years. they are living in prison and suffer tremendous mental pressure. i chose to the path of becoming an international student because my family can afford it but a lot they cannot even know what is G5 and ivy league. what's more, zhongkao is even more determining because half of students will be eliminated that they cannot attend high school but go to technical school which in china means you can only live at the bottom of the society for most of them.
Yeah. But now the CCP is shoving that dystopian shitshow on the rest of the world, by making everyone else compete with this shit.
Fuck the CCP man. First they fuck over every single job that doesnt need a degree, and then they started some anti-muslim genocide. After that, they start 50 more trade wars, support Russia, enslave third world countries with colonial britain level contracts, and now end up fucking over every other countries education system, by forcing them to compete with the mfs militarily trained to finish exams.
@@honkhonk8009 seethe
From my experience, university education is largely a scam and i have 4 technical degrees and one humanities diploma. The reason most people take their time away from working as young adults to do at least one degree is to fullfill expectations of qualifying for and attaining professional or para-professional work when the degree is completed. In my case, this took four goes, because at least two were unfulfilled or not the right profession for me. I strongly suspect that many young adults emerge from universites with a degree, finding that thousands of their ilk are applying for a handful of jobs and after about a year of waiting on tables (for example) for a pittance of a wage and applying for handreds of jobs in a saturated market and going to a handful of dispiriting failed interveiws, that the young person (a year later) feels deep frustratration and low self-esteem after the brief high of graduation. This is because the economic system for degree-mania (by employers) is largely unattainable and untenable, making a lot of angry but well educated young adults. The Chinese, a people placing very high expectations on degrees making a future for prosperity and job satisfaction, are going to be equally disappointed and equally dissatified. Universities play on the hopes and expections of young people, and after the blood, sweat and tears or working hard to attain your degree, find a mirage in the desert. This is phase one of a social revolution when it is discovered that corruption will play it's part in shoe-horning a few lucky (and well lubricated and connected) graduates into a few strongly sort-after positions (this is happening in the West as well as China). When this scandal is discovered, then watch University campuses across all countries literally explode with rage.
Taking more time away from work only improves the health and life of that individual. They're scamming society and not being the sacrifice that workers are.
96% of all students at my Masters in Finance I studied in Chicago, were either Chinese or Indian like me. Drew similar conclusions to you, but wow you giving this perspective a lot of teeth with research, facts and anecdotes! And yes, still played the game...
I remember being more and more aware of this as i researched more for my future university in Europe. I had to because of my relatively unimpressive scores for A levels. However, my parents only cared about university fame, so they forced me to go to a local favorite instead of any of the lesser known universities in the list I compiled. In retrospect, I really should've gone abroad. From a student perspective, it was awful. Piss poor facilities and most importantly severe lack of opportunities
As a Chinese student who has went through the whole googa, this rings true on so many levels. Good job!
At my siter-in-law's graduation ceremony, the vice-chancellor (what we call university president or CEO or whatever) in his speech said that all the students should rate the school very well in student satisfaction surveys because it would increase the universities place in the rankings, thereby increasing the market value of their degree
Not in the US, but Australian universities suffer the same situation to an even larger degree. I went to a uni in Sydney at which more than half of the students were Chinese. The campus was a literal Chinatown. The uni did set a criterion of English proficiency at admission, but those below that criterion were still admitted and given an "English course" before the start of their degree. Those English courses simply became a new money grabber and the Chinese students were more than happy to pay for that. As anyone might imagine, there is no way a few months of an English course can lift anyone from basic conversational level to a competent academic writer.
As a "solution", Chinese students commit massive plagiarisms. Ghost writing is a very profitable "occupation" if you are a Chinese students with good English writing skills.
You go UTS for sure. Im in year 12 considering to go there for Comp Sci. If you dont mind can you tell me of your experiences so far and the course youre taking
@@st3pn56 Hey mate, I actually went to MQU for translation studies. Comp sci sounds like an area that can lead you to a bright future so good for you!
A language course prior to entry is just a scam regardless what langauage it is. Friend of mine went to taiwan. He barely has shit knowledge of chinese. Didnt last long and went home after a year. Despite getting the "chinese course"
Chinese ain’t in the US.
I'm an international applicant from China, and I can assure the legitimacy of the crisis covered in the video, thank you for making this heard! It is such a struggle...
Any prospective student with a brain worth cultivating know that rankings cannot be relied upon. But then how else should students begin to research the best schools for them? Visit the schools personally? Write to the school asking why they should have the privilege of accepting you as a student? Ask friends and family? None of that is going to be pragmatic. You have to narrow down your choices and the rankings, as flawed as they are, can help you with that. But you do have to be smart to use the rankings, and as you correctly point out, criteria like number of citations are very misleading.
And then there is the question: how to avoid the terrible schools that will take your money in exchange for worse than useless tuition? And there are many schools like this in the US and elsewhere. Can you equally ignore bad reputation as you ignore good reputation?
Good point. What people don't realize is that, despite misleading, the ranking system does provide some information and values for people with absolutely no other way to know. It is terrible, until you look at the alternatives. Weighing the choice between some information and no information, some information is always gonna be better. Yes, some of the metrics are intentionally created to be misleading and some come from money grabbing motives. But smart people are making conscious decisions about their futures by examining whatever information they can get their hands on.
The only other real method is to go online and find where students of that school talk about their experiences. Which, while it can cut through a lot of the BS, suffers from being highly incomplete information and the difficulty of sifting out the normal complaining and ideological crap from the actual information. Which I guess means that there really isn't any good way of knowing what college to go to.
TBH i read Google reviews 🤣 as silly as it sounds those reviews were written by actual students studying there, they mentioned that the Professors are very friendly and approachable, the Engineering course is focused on Practical and current industrial markets and they have ties to the big Industries so they suit their curriculum according to market demand, and thats why i chose my University for Engineering and can confirm those reviews. since almost all Universities are Free there is no crazy competition to get fake reviews.
i havent even finished yet and have Job offers
I almost never comment but I did want to say that I toured a few of my prospective colleges and it was pretty easy for me to see by the tours which one fit me. 4 years later (with 0 student loans) and I’m proud to have my degree in aerospace engineering. Just gotta find the right one in person. Talking to (recent) alumni is a great way to get a feel for it too
Read quora answers, mail recent alumni about specific questions, go through the school curriculum
I lived in China and took the GaoKao just to take it, before moving back to the US and going to college here. I basically did what I expected, near aced the Foreign language, science, and humanities portions; and did decently on everything except for Chinese Literature. Idk why this wasn't mentioned but the Kaoyan is even more competitive, and the GaoKao is almost near identical to what you are going to see on the SAT (Besides it being in Mandarin + 2 extra sections). Students are socially pressured to do amazing on this test which ultimately is not exactly the hardest test in the world. A lot of teachers in my school would literally teach about more advanced parts of the GaoKao (Especially the Science portion), and we would sometimes skip ahead of the fundamentals we should have been learning. By the time I came back to America and did enter college, I was basically missing fundamentals in Mathematics and Science, even though I could test out of the Pre-reqs with SAT scores, it didn't matter because I would have failed if I tried to take anything beyond calc2.
It may not be absolutely harder, but it sounds like more competitive due to much more people taking it and trying harder - since, as the video states, its score's weight is so high.
But I agree on the rest, the focus on such exams make real education poorer overall.
The difficulty of the GaoKao is getting a perfect score (or close to it as possible). Every single point counts towards your ranking and can make the difference between a top university or lower tier. Millions are taking the test.
The point is that in China the gaokao is the ONLY metric that matters for college admissions, so the margin for error is very slim, whereas in the US, many schools are now making standardized tests optional.
whats hard ab gaokao is to get into 985 211 LMFAO
w/ a huge population in china, do u necessarily think that it only matters if u pass the exam? no! there r students that have gone all lengths to do extra tutoring. sat n gaokao aint even close LMFAO
and also, now, GAOKAO is not necessarily the ONLY exam that matters. In ZHONGKAO (from junior to senior high), it becomes more and more important and even outshines GAOKAO. This is because education resources are allocated very unevenly among senior high schools. Only fifty percent of students can get into public senior high schools and the rest have to go to a private school (in China the case is that most private school is worse than public schools and only a small part of students could afford to go to international private high schools)
My high school biology teacher is nearly 50 years old. He always said that "all the knowledge you learn now will be useless in the future", "those who put you on the table to study are guilty" and "Chinese students are the hardest in the world, which is the purgatory of the world".😂
Now I think he is right.
High school teacher is not considered a successful role model in the society, how would you validate his statement and believe its right? I guess just being emotional
@@jasoncheung1754 what a disgusting comment. you should value your teachers, they take shit pay because they want to help kids learn.
@@jasoncheung1754 ??? what are you talking about? they mold almost all of us & our children. they are one of the cornerstones of our society
@@jasoncheung1754 well not in your society and look how your society is...
PolyMatter makes quality videos every single time
i had been waiting for last 4 days for Evan to upload
I went to a prestigious university, and agree that rankings have nothing to do with the undergraduate experience. As a result, I guided my nephew and niece towards a much better fit for their college education and experience.
While it's nice to hear some of the insider issues in colleges- I feel the greater problem got the back of the bus here. It's that colleges are private organizations. Therefore their number one goal is to increase revenue. Period. The purpose of society is to grow for the better. Education is a massive part of growing. It should be a right of every citizen to attend a college that focuses on their education as a #1 goal which means they need to be government funded, in full. With the exception that you can pay if you're unwilling to or previously failed to prove that you're intellectually and motivationally capable of covering the cost by giving back to your country in the long run.
The whole point of government is to provide things like this. Our country fails because our politicians are corrupt. We pay our taxes for them to provide things like medical care, pharmaceutical needs, education, security, and other needs in special circumstances. That's the whole point. I'm glad people are beginning to wake up. But depressed at how long so many people were led to believe that taxes should be paid.... for what exactly lol? Meanwhile our poor and middle class citizens also pay for their healthcare, their state taxes, their meds which are price gouged thousands, and even tens of thousands above what's necessary. We've just setup so many generations of people to dedicate their lives to failing or trying to fix this infuriatingly broken system assuming they can even navigate their way through this chaotic fucking mess of a country.
Meanwhile private Berea College continues to provide solid education with a brilliant model.
Just letting you guys know, here in Vietnam things are pretty dang similar. Ever since one is born, one is expected to go to school 12 years, then take the National Graduate Test (similar to the Gaokao but less intense), and that's pretty much the only way to get into college or university. No extra curriculum, talents are often wasted and schoolers are usually depressed.
Same in turkey but the test is rlly difficult
Omg, I am a Hongkonger, and this video also explained similar situation in Hong Kong. I once wondered, why HK's universities scored so high about international ratio in all uni rankings? Because our government treats Chinese students as "non-local" and boosted our intl. student ratio up to 40%up. In the years of their uni life, they seldom try to learn the local language (Cantonese) or culture, and have their own social bubble. Also, everything offered at universities in Hong Kong is conducted solely in English, and since papers written in English are much more cited than other language, this pushes HK's universities to some of the highest ranked in Asia. (Most top universities in Asia are not English-only, usually conducted in the combination of the local language and English.)
HK universities despite this flawed ranking system are still some of the best in Asia. They have very brilliant researchers
The "non-local" situation is good for ranking, and usually, NDS are likely to return back to China for employment.
But the situation creates a problem in the PG studies. Those "non-locals" account for >50% of all PG students, which push the local to be some sort of minority. Most professors would only use Mandarin to communicate with them, which further discourages them to assimilate into the society.
They are there to study the professional knowledge and have no obligation to mix with you guys. Even if they are interested in the Canton culture or learning the dialect, traveling around the Guangdong Province would be a reasonably better option, since Guangdong culture would be more authentic than your 'local culture'.
I believe mainland students do shop around in HK, explore local restaurants ... Most of them simply don't want to hang around with you peers, probably because what you're proud of aren't that fascinating.
@@shengyuan1578 There's always that guy who thinks himself better than everyone else. Congratulations. 🤡
@@TheZachary86 I do agree with you. Ignoring the rankings, HK universities are still some very good universities.
I never thought about more research meaning less time teaching students. Being a great researcher does not mean you are great at communicating the knowledge. Doing research does cut down the amount of time you can spend helping students outside of class. I doubt Indiana Jones has a lot of office hours available.
That last line is gold🤣
That seems to be a part of it, but the other side is that when you're immersed every day in really arcane, esoteric research it can be really hard to explain basic concepts to incoming freshmen. Sure, you're working with really fancy plasma physics, but can you explain basic Newtonian physics anymore? You're researching really cool mathematics, but can you teach the basic calculus that engineers are going to be using in practice?
And don't even get me started on what Publish or Perish has done to the quality of academic research, and research in general. I think there's a reason we haven't had a good Einstein in forty years. They don't survive in the endless politicking of grants. String theory needs to die, but it keeps bringing money in so it keeps getting larger and more convoluted.
I remembered saying the same thing about NTU back when I was studying there and it's rank rose and shot up. Glad to know I'm not the only one who felt this way.
Funny coincidence, this video popped up in my recommended right as I applied to an university. But I didn't really pay much mind to rankings, I think the more important things to me were proximity (because dealing with intense education is even harder when you're also dealing with trying to live on your own for the first time) and opinions of the students currently there (they know exactly how things work there and have no financial incentive to lie if it's bad). Now time to hope I made the right choice...
did you make the right choice?