Evening Johnathan, I have two home and one distant n gauge dapol single s and have read a lot of blogs about the correct voltage to use but having watched your video I will happily go with the 9v battery pack to power the signals..great insight and information. thanks.👍
Evening Jonathan! Some very interesting stuff here, especially about how you intend to interlock signals / points / switches! I've thought about how I'm going to do this, but instead of semaphore signals, am taking the easy option, and am going to go down the light signal route! Then all I need to worry about is whether my micro servo motors have thrown! I plan on using an Arduino based system to do this, which I'll hook up to the DCC system to provide the user inputs! I also plan on having code to "reset" the system to a known state, which should help when trying to write automation code! I'm really looking forward to that part of the build, but it seems so far away! Lol! All the best, Ian.
Hi Ian, thanks - yes I'm finding it fun thinking about what logic's going to be needed for the interlocking, and am many years overdue on trying to do something with an Arduino! Colour signals fit Shelfinton's timeframe nicely. If it weren't for physical vulnerability I think I'd be starting on the proper details research into this, but if feels a long way off for me too!
There seems to be a shortage of good semaphore signal options, particularly in N gauge. I will be working on some solutions for my own needs, and maybe there will be opportunities to make them available to other modellers. If the existing companies can’t serve this need, others will arise who can!
Hi Mark, let me know how you get on - not that long ago I'd have been content with static signals, but I've somehow come from that to wanting illuminated moving ones with simulated interlocking, so the more options the better, thanks :)
Hi Jonathan, very interesting video as I’m starting to think about signalling as I rebuild Exehaven. I am trying to keep my layout as simple as possible whilst being realistic and thought the Dapol motorised signal might be the the route to take, but after reading the comments below may now have a re-think 🤔 Cheers for now, John
Hi John, yes it's a shame because they look nice and could save fiddly LED and wire fitting! Potentially using them and then scrapping the servo in favour of an external one is still going to be easier than building and modifying the Ratio kit, but would be an expensive way to go. On the other hand perhaps it's possible to install them as-is and then only modify them if they break afterwards - it would probably just need a bit of "future-proofing" space nearby on the underside of the baseboard, and no elaborate scenery burying the surface-level rectangular base of the signal. The MegaPoints control of one of these (from a while ago!) is at ua-cam.com/video/m6MmCO9eTKU/v-deo.html
Hi, as the long term goal is to interlock the signals and a point/switch I would be tempted to go the arduino path, Inputs from your existing point/switches could be used for the logic of the signals or vice-versa, will also allow 2 or more signal heads to control access to the switch/point. Inputs and outputs of the arduino can provide all of the signal forms you need and be stepped up/down to the required voltage levels. Confirmation that a point or signal has switched is confirmed in the real world by sensors back to the control system, but the level of available sensor technology for models in N is very limited or non-existent, however arduino allows that to be an expansion possibility and can be software programmed at the outset so as the sensor technology becomes available it can be implemented easily. Love the way the layout is progressing. Cheers
Hi Tony, thanks for your suggestions :) Yes an Arduino sounds like a sensible way to go. Even for a small number of signals and points there are lots of possible states for the system, so being able to define the constraints in software is attractive! I've got plenty of experience writing code, so software logic shouldn't be a problem, but connecting to the physical world will be a first for me. All of the points on Endoor are connected to microswitches, so the position of those is physically sensed, but for these signals I might need something like a latching relay, and a way to reset its state if it gets out of sync. Lots to think about - it might be a good job that signals will be one of the last things!
Trouble with these Dapol signals is that the state of the signal is known only internally. It is a complete mystery to any external system to which they are to be integrated. This is a fundamental flaw in a signal at this price point, and one which no self-respecting points motor would emulate. We need semaphore signals to which we can connect competent actuators, like off-the-shelf point motors, not these functionally obfuscating products from Dapol. I’m a competent and experienced embedded systems engineer and would dearly love to help Dapol do better than their current offering, if they are ever interested to do so.
Although I haven't looked into this much, UA-cam did show me a video where Dave from MegaPoints Controllers had opened-up one of these Dapol N gauge signals and connected it to his servos and control system. But yes, it would be nice if there was a version without the Dapol servo, ready for external connection, and at a lower price.
Hi Euan, oh dear, that's not even close to a long enough lifespan - so it would seem that it working out of the box is only test number 1! Thanks for the warning. Perhaps I won't use this one as-is after all, and go back to the original plan of opening it and connecting to something else. I'll have a good go at the Ratio kit (eventually!) before deciding whether or not to buy any more Dapol ones though.
Evening Johnathan, I have two home and one distant n gauge dapol single s and have read a lot of blogs about the correct voltage to use but having watched your video I will happily go with the 9v battery pack to power the signals..great insight and information. thanks.👍
Hi, I'm glad it's been useful for you - thanks 🙂
Evening Jonathan! Some very interesting stuff here, especially about how you intend to interlock signals / points / switches! I've thought about how I'm going to do this, but instead of semaphore signals, am taking the easy option, and am going to go down the light signal route! Then all I need to worry about is whether my micro servo motors have thrown! I plan on using an Arduino based system to do this, which I'll hook up to the DCC system to provide the user inputs! I also plan on having code to "reset" the system to a known state, which should help when trying to write automation code! I'm really looking forward to that part of the build, but it seems so far away! Lol! All the best, Ian.
Hi Ian, thanks - yes I'm finding it fun thinking about what logic's going to be needed for the interlocking, and am many years overdue on trying to do something with an Arduino! Colour signals fit Shelfinton's timeframe nicely. If it weren't for physical vulnerability I think I'd be starting on the proper details research into this, but if feels a long way off for me too!
There seems to be a shortage of good semaphore signal options, particularly in N gauge. I will be working on some solutions for my own needs, and maybe there will be opportunities to make them available to other modellers. If the existing companies can’t serve this need, others will arise who can!
Hi Mark, let me know how you get on - not that long ago I'd have been content with static signals, but I've somehow come from that to wanting illuminated moving ones with simulated interlocking, so the more options the better, thanks :)
Hi Jonathan, very interesting video as I’m starting to think about signalling as I rebuild Exehaven. I am trying to keep my layout as simple as possible whilst being realistic and thought the Dapol motorised signal might be the the route to take, but after reading the comments below may now have a re-think 🤔
Cheers for now, John
Hi John, yes it's a shame because they look nice and could save fiddly LED and wire fitting! Potentially using them and then scrapping the servo in favour of an external one is still going to be easier than building and modifying the Ratio kit, but would be an expensive way to go. On the other hand perhaps it's possible to install them as-is and then only modify them if they break afterwards - it would probably just need a bit of "future-proofing" space nearby on the underside of the baseboard, and no elaborate scenery burying the surface-level rectangular base of the signal. The MegaPoints control of one of these (from a while ago!) is at ua-cam.com/video/m6MmCO9eTKU/v-deo.html
Thanks Jonathan
Hi, as the long term goal is to interlock the signals and a point/switch I would be tempted to go the arduino path, Inputs from your existing point/switches could be used for the logic of the signals or vice-versa, will also allow 2 or more signal heads to control access to the switch/point. Inputs and outputs of the arduino can provide all of the signal forms you need and be stepped up/down to the required voltage levels. Confirmation that a point or signal has switched is confirmed in the real world by sensors back to the control system, but the level of available sensor technology for models in N is very limited or non-existent, however arduino allows that to be an expansion possibility and can be software programmed at the outset so as the sensor technology becomes available it can be implemented easily.
Love the way the layout is progressing. Cheers
Hi Tony, thanks for your suggestions :) Yes an Arduino sounds like a sensible way to go. Even for a small number of signals and points there are lots of possible states for the system, so being able to define the constraints in software is attractive! I've got plenty of experience writing code, so software logic shouldn't be a problem, but connecting to the physical world will be a first for me. All of the points on Endoor are connected to microswitches, so the position of those is physically sensed, but for these signals I might need something like a latching relay, and a way to reset its state if it gets out of sync. Lots to think about - it might be a good job that signals will be one of the last things!
Trouble with these Dapol signals is that the state of the signal is known only internally. It is a complete mystery to any external system to which they are to be integrated. This is a fundamental flaw in a signal at this price point, and one which no self-respecting points motor would emulate. We need semaphore signals to which we can connect competent actuators, like off-the-shelf point motors, not these functionally obfuscating products from Dapol. I’m a competent and experienced embedded systems engineer and would dearly love to help Dapol do better than their current offering, if they are ever interested to do so.
Although I haven't looked into this much, UA-cam did show me a video where Dave from MegaPoints Controllers had opened-up one of these Dapol N gauge signals and connected it to his servos and control system. But yes, it would be nice if there was a version without the Dapol servo, ready for external connection, and at a lower price.
I had two Dapol upper quadrant - both failed after a few months despite getting only limited usage. Very expensive- so wouldn't recommend 😢
Hi Euan, oh dear, that's not even close to a long enough lifespan - so it would seem that it working out of the box is only test number 1! Thanks for the warning. Perhaps I won't use this one as-is after all, and go back to the original plan of opening it and connecting to something else. I'll have a good go at the Ratio kit (eventually!) before deciding whether or not to buy any more Dapol ones though.