I am So glad you're doing passives now. AFAIK, nobody ever really does AB comparisons between passives and actives. It's so difficult to discern what is just hyped snake oil or not and now you've given us a way of testing the claim that passives are so much better. It's not perfect, obviously, because as some of you will point out, you can't really appreciate the true sound through a vid, but this, with the frequency response graphs he puts up, and his occasional personal reviews gives us all a pretty decent reference point we otherwise wouldn't have. It's no replacement for listening to them irl, but for those of us who can't, it's 100x better than just reading random reviews. edit: typo
I just listened again and I believe I could use the elac reference as a studio monitor no problem. They are so close to the Yamahas which have more Bass, but I tend to turn the bass up just a bit on the tone controls anyway. Still amazes me how both these speakers get so close to the source at such a low price. And considering one is powered and one is passive. This is very good news for us everyday people.
I see what all the fuss is about with elac speakers. They sound really good. The high end is dark and smooth, so milky. The yamaha have more open mid range, less veiled sounding but razor sharp highs.
They are pretty much identical to my ear (listening on DT770 Pro 80 Ohm), except that Yahama can go lower for a deeper bass, as you'd expect from an 8 inch woofer (vs 6.5). It's also confirmed in their specs and the frequency response graphs from this test. Basically boils down to how much bass you want.
But we can’t through our headphones judge how is the soundstage and if highs are harsh or smooth , I always have wished that you would comment on the results.
Interesting comparison🤔 I’ve owned the yamaha hs8 and the ”more precence” that you hear here, compared to Elacs, sounds a bit harsh and unorganic ”in real life”, to my ears at least. The Elacs have been very liked, and measure well, over at the Audio Science Review -site, and I’ve thought of buying a pair, but after this comparison I’m not sure🤔 They sound a bit muffled, but then again the yamaha’s are a bit unnatural🤔 Tough one😅 I have neumann kh80’s and iloud micro as desktop monitors and I’m not completely satisfied with either. A pair of 200€ audio pro t14 sounded better in my living room than the neumanns. The neumanns sound better in the near-field but become too midrangy in far-field🤔 I listened to this with etymotic er2xr, which are pretty neutral. And for me at least it’s impossible to judge from this comparison which one is better IRL✌️
Vivek Sood I’ve owned many genelecs, 1030, 6010, 8020 and G3🙈 They were good for casual music, but lack a bit in treble detail (air & ambience) and transparency, for me at least. But very pleasant sounding🤔 I’m on a quest for a perfect desktop monitor u see😅
celinean1 Agreed! I have the Yamahas and for general listening I prefer my elac debut 2.0's (predecessor to the reference series). The Yamahas are just harsh sounding in the room. In recordings it may come off as more "presence" or high-end, but it's fatiguing and unnatural in real life. The Elacs bring in just enough warmth/lushness without losing too much detail. For mixing, obviously the Yamahas are going to be a better choice, bc that forwardness allows you to clearly hear all aspects of a mix. For chilling and listening to music, or filling a room with "musicality" the Elacs win all day with a pleasing, yet still honest sound.
I've had the Elac DBR62 for almost two weeks now and they are anything but muffled in the higher frequencies. They are extremely linear and homogeneous to my ears. If you find them muffled, it can only be the Denon amp. In my opinion this is the typical Denon sound (Marantz sounds very similar). I run the DBR62 on an Atoll IN30 and it sounds really excellent!
Many "high fi" speakers sounds like "studio monitors". But "hifi speakers" are made with better materials and it has better design, so they are more expensive.
Comaprison ? (title) LOL 🤣✌ Love your Channel, i listen often to compare speakers on my high end audio-system and/or headphones (purpose: doing some audio/video-editing myself)
Elacs showcase the quality of the amp for better or worse, put them on something high end and they will crush with Yamaha's. I preferred Yamaha's but the Elac's would be less fatiguing over long listening sessions. Plus, with the Yamaha you are stuck with the way they sound, you have room to play with passive/amp set up imo.
Great point. That is the main reason I do not prefer powered speakers. The elacs will definitely reveal the weakness or strengths of any amplifier and tube preamp. They change their sound in respect to the source and power given to them. For me this reveals a truly great speaker. And digging down to 30 HZ doesn't hurt either. They just need a bit of power.
This is how you compare speakers properly. Not much difference at all. Mids on the DBR62 a tit better. Lows on the active HS8 a little lower. All marginal. Do you SPL level them with pink noise?
yamaha give the distortion detail better and you can feel it crawling to your ears in every single string (man on the fire) but elac give us more depth staging while the mid and upper mid on well controlled nice comparison for all, just trust your ears!
Judging by this clip the Yamaha sounds better, which is fun because tomorrow I'll receive my Elacs. Edit: Listening through it again the Elac are closer to the source. Yamaha ads some extra treble.
Exactly. Elacs are very good and well balanced natural sound. Yamaha are also great but little forward highs, but overall it's good, easier to hear details. I also own these Elacs, and to my taste I increase a bit trebles +3dB and now it's great.
The Yamies sound good but why white speakers. Also...There's something called high current amps, tone controls, volume and subwoofers that can make both of these speakers sound really good.
Signal to both systems was fed from Matrix Mini-I DAC via analog inputs > 11:26 < Detailed Frequency Response Graphs Instagram - instagram.com/digitalstereophony/ Facebook - facebook.com/DigitalStereophony/
You are right about the sound but wrong about the amp. You will never be able to tell the difference in amps from class ab to d besides the extra self noise d amps usually have in cheaper speakers. The main reason the yamaha sounds aggressive at the mid and top end is simply because it was voiced that way but also because it uses an aluminum dome.
I guess when mixing, the Yamaha would still be the more logical choice because it is so consistent and will not change. But for listening enjoyment, I still prefer the elacs, barely...
The room is buzzing at low frequencies, the microphone is worse than the previous one. With this configuration, there is no way to properly evaluate. Previously, it was better.
Tests with the participation of Denon 600 show one thing - that if you cannot pay at least 1000 euros for a new amplifier, then it is better not to engage in passive sound ))
You have to factor the Amp into the equation. I know Denon is getting somewhat better, but it was never a builder of "great" amps in the past. I Would prefer to see the Cambridge CXA60 pressed into service here. But this just shows the problems with amp matching and then extra expenses of good speaker wire, etc. This is the Draw for these DAW monitors for general home use. - Sandy
@@sandyshoremann7524 That is some hifi bullshit talk. Amps have no effect on sound quality besides self noise and power. This is the same as saying speaker wires and power cables change the sound of speakers.
@@sergeysmelnik Sergey, its is sad to say that it all makes a big difference - even turntable platter mat material. Been in this hobby for over 50 years. Learned much by trying and listening.
@@sandyshoremann7524 Sorry its in your head. Amps dont have sound quality and neither do wires. If you want to pay 300 a foot for some wires that are shielded against the earths magnetism then go ahead. But Ill never stop calling out the lies and hi fi audio is full of them.
I'm guessing the elacs would sound almost exactly the same as the Yamaha if you used a powerful class D amp with tube preamp. The Texas Instruments TPA 3255 class D chip amps are sounding very good these days. Tubes bring out a bit of sparkle in the elacs top end.
![[Sound Battle] KEF R3 vs Elac Debut Reference DBR62 Bookshelf Speakers/ Yamaha A-S301 Integrated Amp](/img/n.gif)
I am So glad you're doing passives now. AFAIK, nobody ever really does AB comparisons between passives and actives. It's so difficult to discern what is just hyped snake oil or not and now you've given us a way of testing the claim that passives are so much better.
It's not perfect, obviously, because as some of you will point out, you can't really appreciate the true sound through a vid, but this, with the frequency response graphs he puts up, and his occasional personal reviews gives us all a pretty decent reference point we otherwise wouldn't have. It's no replacement for listening to them irl, but for those of us who can't, it's 100x better than just reading random reviews.
edit: typo
I just listened again and I believe I could use the elac reference as a studio monitor no problem. They are so close to the Yamahas which have more Bass, but I tend to turn the bass up just a bit on the tone controls anyway. Still amazes me how both these speakers get so close to the source at such a low price. And considering one is powered and one is passive. This is very good news for us everyday people.
Great!!! Active VS passives ... You're going next level.
For under $700 all in the HS8 are hard to beat.
Those ELAC's have a wonderful flat sound.
A bit more low end in the Yamaha but the Elac Debut seemed to have a bit more clarity and more natural sounding 2-3k area.
some similar peaks make me think to a strong iteration with the room
I see what all the fuss is about with elac speakers. They sound really good. The high end is dark and smooth, so milky. The yamaha have more open mid range, less veiled sounding but razor sharp highs.
ELACs are SURPRISINGLY good!! Wow! Almost identical to HS8! Awesome!
Was surprising to me and I have the elac reference!
both sounds great. Didn't expect such subtle difference. It's all about nuances, but elacs sound slitly better on overdriven guitar.
Man on fire track almost identical to source track on Elacs.
Elac hands down! 🙌🏼
Wow pretty similar
They are pretty much identical to my ear (listening on DT770 Pro 80 Ohm), except that Yahama can go lower for a deeper bass, as you'd expect from an 8 inch woofer (vs 6.5). It's also confirmed in their specs and the frequency response graphs from this test. Basically boils down to how much bass you want.
But we can’t through our headphones judge how is the soundstage and if highs are harsh or smooth , I always have wished that you would comment on the results.
It registers quite well on my Sennheiser HD820s.
Wow. You’re a mind reader
wow the sound really opens up on those Yamaha's, Elacs very close tho.
Interesting comparison🤔
I’ve owned the yamaha hs8 and the ”more precence” that you hear here, compared to Elacs, sounds a bit harsh and unorganic ”in real life”, to my ears at least.
The Elacs have been very liked, and measure well, over at the Audio Science Review -site, and I’ve thought of buying a pair, but after this comparison I’m not sure🤔
They sound a bit muffled, but then again the yamaha’s are a bit unnatural🤔
Tough one😅
I have neumann kh80’s and iloud micro as desktop monitors and I’m not completely satisfied with either. A pair of 200€ audio pro t14 sounded better in my living room than the neumanns. The neumanns sound better in the near-field but become too midrangy in far-field🤔
I listened to this with etymotic er2xr, which are pretty neutral. And for me at least it’s impossible to judge from this comparison which one is better IRL✌️
You probably need Genelics.
Vivek Sood
I’ve owned many genelecs, 1030, 6010, 8020 and G3🙈
They were good for casual music, but lack a bit in treble detail (air & ambience) and transparency, for me at least. But very pleasant sounding🤔
I’m on a quest for a perfect desktop monitor u see😅
celinean1 Agreed! I have the Yamahas and for general listening I prefer my elac debut 2.0's (predecessor to the reference series). The Yamahas are just harsh sounding in the room. In recordings it may come off as more "presence" or high-end, but it's fatiguing and unnatural in real life. The Elacs bring in just enough warmth/lushness without losing too much detail. For mixing, obviously the Yamahas are going to be a better choice, bc that forwardness allows you to clearly hear all aspects of a mix. For chilling and listening to music, or filling a room with "musicality" the Elacs win all day with a pleasing, yet still honest sound.
@@celinean1 Unbelievable. Then you should look into passive ones I guess.
I've had the Elac DBR62 for almost two weeks now and they are anything but muffled in the higher frequencies. They are extremely linear and homogeneous to my ears. If you find them muffled, it can only be the Denon amp. In my opinion this is the typical Denon sound (Marantz sounds very similar). I run the DBR62 on an Atoll IN30 and it sounds really excellent!
Great comparison! Could you do the Elac's vs. some of your other speakers like the Adam's, Mackie's, and Kali's?
There will be few other active vs passive comparisons with Elac
Elac is more neutral that "studio monitors". That's cool
Many "high fi" speakers sounds like "studio monitors". But "hifi speakers" are made with better materials and it has better design, so they are more expensive.
Comaprison ? (title) LOL 🤣✌
Love your Channel, i listen often to compare speakers on my high end audio-system and/or headphones (purpose: doing some audio/video-editing myself)
Elacs showcase the quality of the amp for better or worse, put them on something high end and they will crush with Yamaha's. I preferred Yamaha's but the Elac's would be less fatiguing over long listening sessions. Plus, with the Yamaha you are stuck with the way they sound, you have room to play with passive/amp set up imo.
Great point. That is the main reason I do not prefer powered speakers. The elacs will definitely reveal the weakness or strengths of any amplifier and tube preamp. They change their sound in respect to the source and power given to them. For me this reveals a truly great speaker. And digging down to 30 HZ doesn't hurt either. They just need a bit of power.
This is how you compare speakers properly. Not much difference at all. Mids on the DBR62 a tit better. Lows on the active HS8 a little lower. All marginal. Do you SPL level them with pink noise?
Yamaha! Elac has slightly more upper base and little less controlled mid/high. Trippy cube background painting btw :) What happend at 8:28 ?!
Great Video! This is boss vs boss!
YAMAHA sounds a little juicy and warm, ELAC sounds better in freq extension and under better control
V close but will go for the HS8...
yamaha give the distortion detail better and you can feel it crawling to your ears in every single string (man on the fire)
but elac give us more depth staging while the mid and upper mid on well controlled
nice comparison for all, just trust your ears!
What is the source of the sound ?
I wonder if you have a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220's to test? :)
Nope
Judging by this clip the Yamaha sounds better, which is fun because tomorrow I'll receive my Elacs.
Edit: Listening through it again the Elac are closer to the source. Yamaha ads some extra treble.
Exactly. Elacs are very good and well balanced natural sound. Yamaha are also great but little forward highs, but overall it's good, easier to hear details. I also own these Elacs, and to my taste I increase a bit trebles +3dB and now it's great.
Oh Yamaha this time. The very first clear win on the Active side after 3 comparisons. Thx for comparing the products that are most hype :)
Idk how it translates irl, but I thought the S2000MKIII's sounded better than the Q Acoustics 3030i in his vids.
@@whatthat607 Agree, more controlled and due to DSP a more balanced sound on different volume levels. btw, Yamaha is not DSP equipped. "Just" bi-amped
@Bratislav Metulski you must be new to the channel. XDDD
The Yamies sound good but why white speakers. Also...There's something called high current amps, tone controls, volume and subwoofers that can make both of these speakers sound really good.
The Yamaha is self-powered you cannot change the sound of the amplification.
Yamaha have more and deeper bass, Elac sounds more detailed but it needs much more better amp than that Denon.
No, it doesn't.
The best sound was from the Original Track + my Grado SR250e+ ODAC :D
希望测试曲目加入 《HOTEL CALIFORNIA》 测试曲库里低音的曲目有点多了。 HS8 各方面强于 Elac
Signal to both systems was fed from Matrix Mini-I DAC via analog inputs
> 11:26 < Detailed Frequency Response Graphs
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whats the internal DAC of the Denon like?
Yamaha barely. Both are close to the source. Very impressive. I have the Elacs, no regrets. Very happy. I would pick Yamaha for the studio though.
Yamaha is little better .Thank you for Comparison🙏🙏🙏👌👌👌🌹🌹🎵🎵🎸🎵🎸🎵
I have not listened with the earphones but it seems that Yamaha is better. Another proof that relying on an external amplifier makes little sense
Why Denon?!
Why not?
That's when Passive 2 way with ext amp wins, smoother and less aggressive at the mid to top end. The Class D amp in HS8 could be the culprit.
You are right about the sound but wrong about the amp. You will never be able to tell the difference in amps from class ab to d besides the extra self noise d amps usually have in cheaper speakers. The main reason the yamaha sounds aggressive at the mid and top end is simply because it was voiced that way but also because it uses an aluminum dome.
Yamaha is Class AB
@@mickelachlan Can you point to a source ?.Yamaha doesn't specify and going by the 60w power consumption, It's not a class A/B.
I guess when mixing, the Yamaha would still be the more logical choice because it is so consistent and will not change. But for listening enjoyment, I still prefer the elacs, barely...
The room is buzzing at low frequencies, the microphone is worse than the previous one. With this configuration, there is no way to properly evaluate. Previously, it was better.
Elac is best
good upgaded
Yamaha wins！Active speakers always beat the [Amp + Passive speakers] in same price.
yamaha forever!!!
Excelent!! Please yamaha hs8 vs genelec
yamaha wins
For studio and mixing use yes, the Yamaha would win.
Tests with the participation of Denon 600 show one thing - that if you cannot pay at least 1000 euros for a new amplifier, then it is better not to engage in passive sound ))
Yamaha
oh yes
Yamaha wins.Give Andrew Jones six months to release the next Debut entry! Lol!
You have to factor the Amp into the equation. I know Denon is getting somewhat better, but it was never a builder of "great" amps in the past. I Would prefer to see the Cambridge CXA60 pressed into service here. But this just shows the problems with amp matching and then extra expenses of good speaker wire, etc. This is the Draw for these DAW monitors for general home use. - Sandy
@@sandyshoremann7524 That is some hifi bullshit talk. Amps have no effect on sound quality besides self noise and power. This is the same as saying speaker wires and power cables change the sound of speakers.
@@gnd144 Ah, a bit sensitive are We? Adult argument of points or here to just cast sophomoric aspersions?
@@sergeysmelnik Sergey, its is sad to say that it all makes a big difference - even turntable platter mat material. Been in this hobby for over 50 years. Learned much by trying and listening.
@@sandyshoremann7524 Sorry its in your head. Amps dont have sound quality and neither do wires. If you want to pay 300 a foot for some wires that are shielded against the earths magnetism then go ahead. But Ill never stop calling out the lies and hi fi audio is full of them.
HS8 have better bass and highs. Elac sound muffled in comparison.
if you like Klipsch sound so yeah
I'm guessing the elacs would sound almost exactly the same as the Yamaha if you used a powerful class D amp with tube preamp. The Texas Instruments TPA 3255 class D chip amps are sounding very good these days. Tubes bring out a bit of sparkle in the elacs top end.
yamaha sounds better
For studio I agree. For home use, a toss-up. Probably would prefer the elacs with proper amplification.