Nice idea, although the pumped-storage hydroelectricity typically achieves higher efficiency and can have several orders of magnitude higher capacity. But the cost is probably higher and you can't build it everywhere. I guess these technologies can work complementarily.
I was curious about this also, for such s big scale. I'm not an engineer, but a pipe-fitter. I've built several very small scale systems where water and air were kept from mixing by installing traps in the piping. So instead of just straight piping connecting the underground air reservoir to the water above, it was "trapped" with a section of pipe running up from the air, then over horizontally an arbitraty distance, then back down an engineered distance, before returning vertically up to the water. I have no idea if a similar principle works on this scale or not, or if mechanical seals are used instead. Just tossing out the idea.
Imagine you've weighed down a bucket full of air at the bottom of a pool. The air is trapped between the waterline and the top of the bucket/cavern. It cannot escape down and out the side to "bubble up" to the surface. No seal is needed, the water's path to the surface just has to be below the cavern's water-air interface. Now imagine you've attached an air tube to the top of the bucket extending to the surface of the pool. Unless you seal it off with your thumb, the air will shoot out, because the bucket's air is compressed to a pressure of Delta_P = density of water * gravitational acceleration * depth. Filling it with ambient air now requires a compressor (e.g. your lungs), and releasing it can provide power. Pretty simple.
It looks like this one's partly funded by getting aggregate to sell. On the other hand having secondhand adiabatic heat to exchange from the air (as you put a km of water pressure on or off it) sounds like a loss.
¿Es necesario poner el volumen de la música tan alta y una música de piano repetitiva que cansa hasta que se quitan las ganas de seguir viendo el vídeo? Es tan evidente que no sé por qué no os dais cuenta. La animación está muy bien, todo bien explicado, pero la música...pufffff Is it necessary to play the music so loud and repetitive piano music that it tires you out until you don't want to continue watching the video? It's so obvious that I don't know why you don't realize it. The animation is very good, everything is well explained, but the music...pufffff.
Power is monopolized, As in power and control over you! Pay or you will cut off. As your food rotting in the freezer, THEY MAKE ENERGY FOREVER DIRTY, making $ the root of all EVIL.
I wonder about the water at top and climate warming. Where will it come from and how will it be replaced if heat vaporizes it more than planned for? Water is the new gold, after all.
that doesnt seem low cost, why not just pump water to different level ?, you dont need comp. air system. it needs a lot of land so not very envorimental, when you compare lion energy packs , construction time and envorimentl effect is a big problem.
Why would you make an explainer and then tank it with an unlicensed piano roll like that? Buy something with an arc to it. For that matter the design definitely neglects 10% for art build principles even if they applied to the buildings only.
Complicated, with a lot of parts to be installed , with -very high costs maintenance, for sure, and probably with huge costs to install. Not a great "innovation", imho. We need a true, real "revolution" in the field of batteries manufacture...
Electric power batteries have plenty to offer. There are carbonate loop fuel cells, flow batteries (aqueous and not,) many battery technologies... This is a storage system too though...why would it be trouble to maintain?
Extremely costly concept which once again demonstrates how renewable energy can never compete with Fossil fuels as shown in every single economic model when storage is considered. EROI of a 100% renewable grid is 3 to 5. Fossil fuels are 15 to 50. Threshold EROI for an advanced industrial society is 9. Only nuclear can deliver on this. Goodluck swindling 45Q tax credits FUNDED by the profit from the oil and gas industry - until they dry up. You can burn methane from a wellhead after drilling a single well for 50 years. You think that renewables can possibly compete with that kind of energy return? Look into the physics, it's laughable. Every single one of these storage projects would instantly collapse in the absence of government subsidies. Looking forward to the costly, dark, cold renewable future ( it's not going to happen).
What's laughable is never pricing in the externalities of fossil fuels in "every single economic model." Good luck providing those calculations in a paragraph. It's laughable that oil & gas subsidies are currently at an all time historical high. It's laughable that you assert profits FUND anything rather than being EXTRACTED by EXPLOITING resources in all their myriad forms. While it might be a necessity, at least be intellectually honest about it. Decreasing a sector's profits via shifting the mechanisms of exploitation is fair game. Besides, it's nice to see the world is moving beyond dinosaurs, both as fuel and obviously biased ideologies such as yours. It's okay, at least you're on point about nuclear power.
@@evan3710 Well you can put your money where you think its best used, I have. But don't blame the market for chasing the efficient use of capital. Buy up those cheap ESG ETF's chock full renewable power projects. At the end of the day physics = energy = economic outcomes. In the battle between physics and utopianism, physics is undefeated. This decade will demonstrate that. Renewable grid penetration in unstable beyond about 30%. And without those nat gas and coal peaker plants subsidizing and externalizing the cost of intermittency power would be $2+ per kwhr. Grid storage is a major engineering issue as you know. I'd be behind renewables if they made sense economically beyond offsetting peak demand for HVAC in warm climates. You're not heating homes in Canada via electric baseboard heating in the middle of night with renewables. It's an absurd concept, I've done the math. The point of connection across people like me and you in carbon neutral power tech is nuclear. The answer is crystal clear and we're just dragging our feet due to entrenched politics from a decade long swindle via subsidization imo. If green tech works then people would be investing heavily chasing profits... profits = excess energy.
@@Bayliss21 I don't confuse my personal beliefs/ethics with sound reasoning for trading/investing and capital HBU, especially not in futures. I never blame the market. I blame humans writ large, myself included. Capital efficiency isn't a panacea synonymous with human benefit. Putting aside the entrenched inefficiencies and misapplication of thermodynamic principles in disparate climates (which is a massive discussion all its own), I roughly agree with everything you've written save for your last two sentences, which are patently false. Energy subsidies for oil & gas have been around for a century, while renewables have enjoyed a relative pittance over the last two decades. I find it interesting you mention the latter and not the former. Last I checked, profitability and fraud aren't mutually exclusive, particularly so when pricing in those externalities. The swindles continue on, with the only differences being how they are perpetrated, who benefits or loses, and when. Don't mistake the combinations of protectionism, immature technologies, and stupidity for the absence of potential, fraudulent or not. GS just dumped $250M into Hydrostor. Unless I'm mistaken, their bets aren't borne of an ethical desire to accrue losses for the benefit of society. Lastly, there is no silver bullet, and there's no such thing as excess energy.
No fuels are used? And what is generating the “excess” electricity that runs the pumps during off peak hours?
I would love to work on something like this. I have 15 years of compressor experience
Bottling up your emotions doesnt count
Do you really?
Chad georesevoir inflation labor has joined the chat.
I wonder how it would work if you anchored air bags to the sea floor and used the pressure of the depth of the ocean instead of creating a lake.
ua-cam.com/video/GicQwXbNnv0/v-deo.html
Impressive, but please consider re-releasing without the overly loud music-the music only detracts from the content.
Nice idea, although the pumped-storage hydroelectricity typically achieves higher efficiency and can have several orders of magnitude higher capacity. But the cost is probably higher and you can't build it everywhere. I guess these technologies can work complementarily.
Hopefully, the Globe and Mail will let me know when it goes on the TSX. I think it's a winner.
Sold, I'll take 2.
Great job!!! Thank you guys.
How do you prevent the water from freezing in the Canadian winters?
How do you usually keep the lower mile in a lake that deep from freezing?
Is there sealing required to keep the air from entering into the water and then bubbling up through the water column?
I was curious about this also, for such s big scale.
I'm not an engineer, but a pipe-fitter. I've built several very small scale systems where water and air were kept from mixing by installing traps in the piping.
So instead of just straight piping connecting the underground air reservoir to the water above, it was "trapped" with a section of pipe running up from the air, then over horizontally an arbitraty distance, then back down an engineered distance, before returning vertically up to the water.
I have no idea if a similar principle works on this scale or not, or if mechanical seals are used instead. Just tossing out the idea.
Imagine you've weighed down a bucket full of air at the bottom of a pool. The air is trapped between the waterline and the top of the bucket/cavern. It cannot escape down and out the side to "bubble up" to the surface. No seal is needed, the water's path to the surface just has to be below the cavern's water-air interface.
Now imagine you've attached an air tube to the top of the bucket extending to the surface of the pool. Unless you seal it off with your thumb, the air will shoot out, because the bucket's air is compressed to a pressure of Delta_P = density of water * gravitational acceleration * depth. Filling it with ambient air now requires a compressor (e.g. your lungs), and releasing it can provide power. Pretty simple.
I am really curious about this project . Where can I get it's detailed information?
Ciekawe jak wyglądają koszty względem elektrowni szczytowo-pompowej?
It looks like this one's partly funded by getting aggregate to sell. On the other hand having secondhand adiabatic heat to exchange from the air (as you put a km of water pressure on or off it) sounds like a loss.
use the concept near sea-side and utilize the waves for compressing air, save some space onshore and energy.
Hell no, that's fish estuary space. But maybe it's also seawall space and not the worst idea if you have it planned to not foul unmanagably.
¿Es necesario poner el volumen de la música tan alta y una música de piano repetitiva que cansa hasta que se quitan las ganas de seguir viendo el vídeo? Es tan evidente que no sé por qué no os dais cuenta. La animación está muy bien, todo bien explicado, pero la música...pufffff
Is it necessary to play the music so loud and repetitive piano music that it tires you out until you don't want to continue watching the video? It's so obvious that I don't know why you don't realize it. The animation is very good, everything is well explained, but the music...pufffff.
Is this the same concept as AirBattery? AUGWIND Energy
Power is monopolized, As in power and control over you! Pay or you will cut off. As your food rotting in the freezer, THEY MAKE ENERGY FOREVER DIRTY, making $ the root of all EVIL.
Whag is the thermal efficiency?
What LCOE range is expected for this technology?
I wonder about the water at top and climate warming. Where will it come from and how will it be replaced if heat vaporizes it more than planned for? Water is the new gold, after all.
3 kinds of energy storage: Thermal, Meĉhanical (compressed air), and Gravity (weiĝht of water column).
Vertical wind generators could be integrated into this system making it even more efficient.
doesn't the water freeze in the winter?
Can't hear the narrator the music is so damn loud. Why do you need the music?
I hope it pans out, and I hope it does not blows up.
Seems like a very efficient system for the extraction of government subsidies to me.
that doesnt seem low cost, why not just pump water to different level ?, you dont need comp. air system. it needs a lot of land so not very envorimental, when you compare lion energy packs , construction time and envorimentl effect is a big problem.
ua-cam.com/video/bPF_bvh8mKw/v-deo.html
Yeah, good idea that's not too incompatible. Air just pipes with fewer losses than water through blind borehole.
Why would you make an explainer and then tank it with an unlicensed piano roll like that? Buy something with an arc to it. For that matter the design definitely neglects 10% for art build principles even if they applied to the buildings only.
Couldn’t bear more than 30 secs of this video because of the music. Really bad choice whoever made this video.
Complicated, with a lot of parts to be installed , with -very high costs maintenance, for sure, and probably with huge costs to install. Not a great "innovation", imho.
We need a true, real "revolution" in the field of batteries manufacture...
Electric power batteries have plenty to offer. There are carbonate loop fuel cells, flow batteries (aqueous and not,) many battery technologies... This is a storage system too though...why would it be trouble to maintain?
Extremely costly concept which once again demonstrates how renewable energy can never compete with Fossil fuels as shown in every single economic model when storage is considered. EROI of a 100% renewable grid is 3 to 5. Fossil fuels are 15 to 50. Threshold EROI for an advanced industrial society is 9. Only nuclear can deliver on this. Goodluck swindling 45Q tax credits FUNDED by the profit from the oil and gas industry - until they dry up. You can burn methane from a wellhead after drilling a single well for 50 years. You think that renewables can possibly compete with that kind of energy return? Look into the physics, it's laughable. Every single one of these storage projects would instantly collapse in the absence of government subsidies. Looking forward to the costly, dark, cold renewable future ( it's not going to happen).
What's laughable is never pricing in the externalities of fossil fuels in "every single economic model." Good luck providing those calculations in a paragraph. It's laughable that oil & gas subsidies are currently at an all time historical high. It's laughable that you assert profits FUND anything rather than being EXTRACTED by EXPLOITING resources in all their myriad forms. While it might be a necessity, at least be intellectually honest about it. Decreasing a sector's profits via shifting the mechanisms of exploitation is fair game. Besides, it's nice to see the world is moving beyond dinosaurs, both as fuel and obviously biased ideologies such as yours. It's okay, at least you're on point about nuclear power.
@@evan3710 Well you can put your money where you think its best used, I have. But don't blame the market for chasing the efficient use of capital. Buy up those cheap ESG ETF's chock full renewable power projects. At the end of the day physics = energy = economic outcomes. In the battle between physics and utopianism, physics is undefeated. This decade will demonstrate that. Renewable grid penetration in unstable beyond about 30%. And without those nat gas and coal peaker plants subsidizing and externalizing the cost of intermittency power would be $2+ per kwhr. Grid storage is a major engineering issue as you know. I'd be behind renewables if they made sense economically beyond offsetting peak demand for HVAC in warm climates. You're not heating homes in Canada via electric baseboard heating in the middle of night with renewables. It's an absurd concept, I've done the math. The point of connection across people like me and you in carbon neutral power tech is nuclear. The answer is crystal clear and we're just dragging our feet due to entrenched politics from a decade long swindle via subsidization imo. If green tech works then people would be investing heavily chasing profits... profits = excess energy.
@@Bayliss21 I don't confuse my personal beliefs/ethics with sound reasoning for trading/investing and capital HBU, especially not in futures. I never blame the market. I blame humans writ large, myself included. Capital efficiency isn't a panacea synonymous with human benefit. Putting aside the entrenched inefficiencies and misapplication of thermodynamic principles in disparate climates (which is a massive discussion all its own), I roughly agree with everything you've written save for your last two sentences, which are patently false. Energy subsidies for oil & gas have been around for a century, while renewables have enjoyed a relative pittance over the last two decades. I find it interesting you mention the latter and not the former. Last I checked, profitability and fraud aren't mutually exclusive, particularly so when pricing in those externalities. The swindles continue on, with the only differences being how they are perpetrated, who benefits or loses, and when. Don't mistake the combinations of protectionism, immature technologies, and stupidity for the absence of potential, fraudulent or not. GS just dumped $250M into Hydrostor. Unless I'm mistaken, their bets aren't borne of an ethical desire to accrue losses for the benefit of society. Lastly, there is no silver bullet, and there's no such thing as excess energy.
What is the round trip overall efficency?
5%