I’d check out the Fat Electrian’s video on the XM-29, it expands on this story and it focuses more on the airburst grenade launcher they mentioned than the XM-8.
Military…what was garand thumb in the military Garand Thumb actually has a literal meaning. It is a painful ailment caused by a Garand's bolt smashing into one's thumb. It is also known as the M1 Thumb.
Garand Thumb gets his channel name from the occasional occurrence of closing the bolt of the M1 Garand rifle while your thumb is still depressing the en bloc clip into the magazine. The M1 Garand rifle got its name from its designer, John C. Garand. His name is pronounced “GAR-rand,” although many people refer to the M1 rifle as the M1 “guh-RAND.”
Truth in your comment about the SA-80. The thing was designed by general engineers and not gunsmiths and it tells. What idiot designs a bullpup with a reciprocating charging handle (so it breaks your jaw if you try to shoot it left handed) but then puts the charging handle in a location most awkward for a right handed shooter to access?? That's not even getting into the issues of weight, rusting, oiling, dissolving or cracking plastics, jamming trigger, exposed mag release, shattering firing pins, etc eith the A1 model, and even some of those issues making it to the A2 and A3... Most guys get fond of whatever rifle they are trained on, but if I was in thr British armed forces I'd be very keen to score top in my marksmanship test and be issued an L129A1 instead... I have no desire to use an L85, even the A3
Why would we try to convince you of anything other than the truth? We all know that's exactly what it is. I'm just surprised no one came out with a semi-auto civilian version. Probably would have cost as much as a SCAR.
@@BearNecessities-XTommy Built Tactical actually has an SL-8 conversion to the XM-8, basically just a XM-8 body that you can drop the SL-8 receiver into and it looks the part. They also do a conversion to a G36 as well.
Dunno if you still check out comments this long after uploading, but a pro-tip from someone who figured out the algorithm and blew up (at least, several months ago, the algorithm may have changed since then) since I noticed your videos don’t get the views they used to despite having way more subscribers: Turn off notifications for subscribers. A lot of your subs may be from closed/forgotten accounts, and if YT sees that you notify subs of every upload and they don’t watch the videos, it will immediately stop recommending your vids to new users. It says “Oh, their subs aren’t even watching this channel? Then it’s a waste of time to try showing un-subbed people” and massively limits your reach. It will even stop notifying people who ARE subbed to you. Worth a shot if you want to get your views back up. You deserve it, so just thought I’d give a tip
The Fat Electrician did a video on the Advanced Weapon Program which mentions the XM-8. (Which is a German G-36 in a new shell to make it look more like the guns in Starship Trooper.) ua-cam.com/video/10Qd6pD6sYU/v-deo.html He did another video about the OICM and XM-29 grenade launcher which also brings up the XM-8 and the OICW program briefly. The reason the military had problems with the M-16/M-4 at the beginning of the war was the lack of lubrication and conflicting information during training and after, based on every unit's opinion, based on how they were trained. The military has bounced back from running the M-16/M-4 dry, lubing sparingly, or lubing the crap out of it depending on the conditions. Eugene Stoner intended for the AR-15/M-16 to have a hard chrome bolt and bolt carrier so it could run dry or lubed sparingly, make it easier to clean, and harder to rust. Of course, the Secretary of Defense during Vietnam, with no experienced advisors who was a former corporate accountant, was determined to reduce costs everywhere they could. Against Stoner's recommendations, they went with a black oxide finish instead of hard chrome, they eliminated the chrome lined bore and chrome lined chamber and even eliminated cleaning kits for issued M-16's and added the bolt forward assist, which Stoner advised against and cancelled out the other savings. Most soldiers were trained on the M-14 which has completely different sights and a completely different disassembly process. When they were issued their brand new M-16's in a high humidity jungle environment in the rain, mud, etc, without even an oil bottle, their rifles rusted inside and out, had obstructions because they had no cleaning rods or patches, sometimes with the rust "welding" the bolt to the barrel extension at worst, and rusting the inside of the chamber causing ejection problems at best. Plus, Winchester did some shenanigans to save money (and snatch the contract from Remington, the developer of the 5.56 cartridge) by using rifle powder left over from WW2. Using old powder wasn't the problem, the problem was the 5.56 ammo was designed and developed using a different kind of powder. The powder designed for WW2 era .30 caliber rifles burned really dirty in the M-16's, which made more fouling, gumming up the action. Stoner had recommended certain things in his design which were thrown out when the bean counters showed up. It was like a car manufacture recommending gasoline, but the owner fills their car with diesel and then blames the car. If you use a chrome plated bolt and carrier, you can run the rifle/carbine bone dry in any any environment with a little oil on the outside of the barrel for rust protection. Running a rifle or carbine with a black oxide finish, which sucks for rust protection, you NEED lubrication. If you're in the arctic, you have to use lube designed for freezing conditions, if you're in a dusty environment, you need to run it dry or sloppy wet, a little oil just attracts sand and dust. Just like inside a car engine, lots of oil displaces dirt and metal shavings that will make your engine (or rifle) malfunction. With military personnel receiving conflicting information (dry, sparingly oiled, sloppy wet), they had stoppages in the field until they figured it out some time later and doctrines changed. Modern barrels, depending on what the rifle/carbine is used for may or may not have a chrome lined barrel to prevent barrel wear, but chrome lining in the bore affects accuracy, so most Designated Rifles don't have chrome lined barrels, their barrels are made of a different barrel than the regular issued rifles. When they reach their limit, they get a new barrel installed. Of course, shooting ammo designed for a full length (20" barrel) rifle in a carbine with a 14.5" or shorter barrel affects accuracy and lethality which took even longer to resolve with new issue ammo. The current Army issue is the M855A1 which is solid machined copper with the steel penetrator tip. It's super accurate and efficient so it retains it's velocity better than the regular M855 ammo. The Seals and Special Forces use a match grade 77 grain open tipped match ammo which is super accurate at range. When the Marines experimented with it in the field, they got called into a war trial tribunal. Their skills, optics, and the ammo was so good, they were making head shots at 200 and 300 yards making it look like they were executing prisoners. They had figured out that the magazine carriers full of steel AK mags slowed down or stopped their rounds at range (200+ yards), plus they were playing "Whack A Mole" as they were popping their heads up over cover. Garand Thumb, pronounced with a hard "G" like "Garage", uses mostly 77 grain OTM ammo to replicate what the Special Forces and SEALs would experience.
My ex-gf’s dad was a Colonel was one of the officers in charge of the future warrior program back then. It was pretty interesting but don’t remember a ton as it was quite a while ago.
It was just a really expensive, modular M16. For all the money the DoD pissed away on that program, it ended up producing a rifle that wasn't any better than the M16.
@@ExUSSailor Well, even the AR platform - M4/M16 has its weakness - harsh cold climate. _(It's performance would be suboptimal if hypothetically war broke out with Russia, which is very real possibility)_ That's why for example, after a lot of testing, the Alaskan PD of Kodiak City had chosen the AK platform over anything else for its superior reliability in the cold climate.
@@Anarcho-harambeism It's possible, but I have no knowledge of the freeze tests of other platforms. I just know that from the test of 1984, following rifles were tested - Galil 5.56 and 7.62, HK-91/93/93A3, Valmet, Mini 14, M1A, Colt M16 and AR15, FAL, FNC. Galil and Valmet had zero malfunctions, FNC come second after setting the gas regulator to adverse conditions. All others failed.
@BloPsy__ I've personally never had an issue in sub zero conditions, with an m4 you need to make sure the weapon is kept clean and relatively dry. But surprisingly bolt actions are used often,
So this weapon was at one point combined with a smart grenade launcher And the 2 of them combined was the xm29 Ebb does aren't you a video that the fat electrician I did on it that you should react too
This dude in the original video sometimes seems like hes just reading and doesnt know as much as he acts like. Like, he said in 2002 they went to that peo company to "finally" replace the m4. But the m4 hadn't been completely adopted by then. Only like 6 or 7 years from when they started getting. Hell there are pictures of marines in Iraq in 2005-06 still using m16.. if he meant m16 in the beginning of the video since the m16 has been in service since the 60s, he should have said that.. would think I guy who runs a channel about this should would notice
Like many others of 40 years ago, I wore the uniform but never deployed. My thought is if they do change over to 6.8 mm and yes less CQB friendly rifle; perhaps, take the P90 and increase barrel for 5.56 NATO rounds for the spec ops personnel at least?
There's a few ways to pronounce Garand: There's "GA-rand" which is what most veterans said historically, and there's also "gare-AND" which is closer to how the designer pronounced his name. Both are technically correct (and I use them pretty interchangeably) but I have seen flame wars begin over which one is better.
The smart grenade launcher that was originally built with that rifle used the same trigger as the rifle and the grenades were illegal, because they were too light to be considered grenades, meaning that they were technically exploding bullets, which have been illegal since the 1860s.
This gun sucks. I got to shoot one years ago. It was extremely hot after only a couple mags. IDK what hes talking about when he says "several mags very quickly before it got hot." Not my experience. Sounds like gun corpo spin. It also felt brittle/cheap. Also I cant speak for the provinggrounds trials, but we had several double feeds. Garbage.
"Sounds like gun corps spin." Bruh, this bait? The video is about how the gun failed. You'd have to be an idiot to think he was selling you the thing. if bait, 10/10 would bite again.
@@TheLPRnetwork You misunderstood my point. Let me clarify for you. Chris was reading the proving grounds report. That report was, in my opinion, spin. I never said he was trying to sell the weapon. I'm saying the people who wrote that report were.....because they were. The heat issue is well known.
@SECURITYLM You definitely could have worded that better. It sounded like you meant chris as a whole, not just the report. You kinda mixed the two seamlessly without clarifying who you meant at what part. Edit: Yeah, reading it several times, you could have started with mentioning the report first.
XM-8 is a weird gun and how it original self could of been a war crime in the XM-29 so you are not wrong in thinking it looks like something from fantasy like Halo or Starship Troopers. The Fat Electrician did a video on it and its wild what America wastes money on before deleting it but always find so way to make sure it can't be a failure so you can't complain because it produced something "useful"
USA be changing their rifle with new once every 10 years😅😂😂 what is the rifle russia is using rn? ITS VIRTUALLY THE SAME OLD AK-47 from the 50s😅😂😂 not much has changed to it upto now .. yes they made MODERN AK47 but the mechanism, the structure of the rifle itself still remains the same to what it was when they first used it .. the best battle rifle in human history! as much as americans hate it BUT RUSSIAN WEAPONS ARE BETTER! look "futuristic" doesnt always means BETTER😅 USA military is now, yet again!!😅 going to use a new battle rifle! its from SIG, and its basically an M4 with a bigger caliber, yes! USA decided not to use the NATO 5.56 ... thats actually one of the selling point of the new US service rifle! its ammo is special .. they did something with the gun powders & sh*t apparently .. RUSSIA STILL USES AN AK😅😅😅😅
Russia hasn't used the ak47 for decades. They use ak74s and ak12s now. They also have rifles just for eltie troops. Like the aek/kord family of rifles.
Here we are again ladies and gents. Being schooled by a Britt who's country has no gun culture. They're a lot more interesting channels by real American Vets and just plain gun enthusiasts. He should stick with appealing to his Indian base. And I'm not talking about Native Americans.🤣🤣🤣🤣
The dude is former Royal Marines bro. Military is military, doesnt matter what country a person is from. Terminology might be different, weapons might be different, culture might be different but experience is universal. If you cant respect that then hopefully you'll never join the military or own a firearm because you dont know basic respect.
I’d check out the Fat Electrian’s video on the XM-29, it expands on this story and it focuses more on the airburst grenade launcher they mentioned than the XM-8.
I was just going to say this same thing. The Fat Electrician is the best
Military…what was garand thumb in the military
Garand Thumb actually has a literal meaning. It is a painful ailment caused by a Garand's bolt smashing into one's thumb. It is also known as the M1 Thumb.
You should react to the .50 cal AK rifle made by a Texan running for congress
Medal of honour recipient Brandon Herrera
@@Trapsarentgay133 *Medal of Freedom
Garand Thumb gets his channel name from the occasional occurrence of closing the bolt of the M1 Garand rifle while your thumb is still depressing the en bloc clip into the magazine. The M1 Garand rifle got its name from its designer, John C. Garand. His name is pronounced “GAR-rand,” although many people refer to the M1 rifle as the M1 “guh-RAND.”
Truth in your comment about the SA-80. The thing was designed by general engineers and not gunsmiths and it tells.
What idiot designs a bullpup with a reciprocating charging handle (so it breaks your jaw if you try to shoot it left handed) but then puts the charging handle in a location most awkward for a right handed shooter to access??
That's not even getting into the issues of weight, rusting, oiling, dissolving or cracking plastics, jamming trigger, exposed mag release, shattering firing pins, etc eith the A1 model, and even some of those issues making it to the A2 and A3...
Most guys get fond of whatever rifle they are trained on, but if I was in thr British armed forces I'd be very keen to score top in my marksmanship test and be issued an L129A1 instead... I have no desire to use an L85, even the A3
The XM8 is just a G36 with a futuristic design, change my mind.
The XM8 is just a G36 with a futuristic design, change battlefront 2, electric boogaloo.
Why would we try to convince you of anything other than the truth? We all know that's exactly what it is. I'm just surprised no one came out with a semi-auto civilian version. Probably would have cost as much as a SCAR.
Well, that's exactly what it is, just a G36 facelift. Not a huge secret lol :D
did you not watch the video?
@@BearNecessities-XTommy Built Tactical actually has an SL-8 conversion to the XM-8, basically just a XM-8 body that you can drop the SL-8 receiver into and it looks the part. They also do a conversion to a G36 as well.
It's Ger-and thumb like when the M1 Garand bolt mashes your thumb into the receiver
Dunno if you still check out comments this long after uploading, but a pro-tip from someone who figured out the algorithm and blew up (at least, several months ago, the algorithm may have changed since then) since I noticed your videos don’t get the views they used to despite having way more subscribers:
Turn off notifications for subscribers. A lot of your subs may be from closed/forgotten accounts, and if YT sees that you notify subs of every upload and they don’t watch the videos, it will immediately stop recommending your vids to new users.
It says “Oh, their subs aren’t even watching this channel? Then it’s a waste of time to try showing un-subbed people” and massively limits your reach. It will even stop notifying people who ARE subbed to you.
Worth a shot if you want to get your views back up. You deserve it, so just thought I’d give a tip
Ah yes.... Bad Company. My forever love.❤
The Fat Electrician did a video on the Advanced Weapon Program which mentions the XM-8. (Which is a German G-36 in a new shell to make it look more like the guns in Starship Trooper.)
ua-cam.com/video/10Qd6pD6sYU/v-deo.html He did another video about the OICM and XM-29 grenade launcher which also brings up the XM-8 and the OICW program briefly.
The reason the military had problems with the M-16/M-4 at the beginning of the war was the lack of lubrication and conflicting information during training and after, based on every unit's opinion, based on how they were trained. The military has bounced back from running the M-16/M-4 dry, lubing sparingly, or lubing the crap out of it depending on the conditions.
Eugene Stoner intended for the AR-15/M-16 to have a hard chrome bolt and bolt carrier so it could run dry or lubed sparingly, make it easier to clean, and harder to rust. Of course, the Secretary of Defense during Vietnam, with no experienced advisors who was a former corporate accountant, was determined to reduce costs everywhere they could. Against Stoner's recommendations, they went with a black oxide finish instead of hard chrome, they eliminated the chrome lined bore and chrome lined chamber and even eliminated cleaning kits for issued M-16's and added the bolt forward assist, which Stoner advised against and cancelled out the other savings.
Most soldiers were trained on the M-14 which has completely different sights and a completely different disassembly process. When they were issued their brand new M-16's in a high humidity jungle environment in the rain, mud, etc, without even an oil bottle, their rifles rusted inside and out, had obstructions because they had no cleaning rods or patches, sometimes with the rust "welding" the bolt to the barrel extension at worst, and rusting the inside of the chamber causing ejection problems at best. Plus, Winchester did some shenanigans to save money (and snatch the contract from Remington, the developer of the 5.56 cartridge) by using rifle powder left over from WW2. Using old powder wasn't the problem, the problem was the 5.56 ammo was designed and developed using a different kind of powder. The powder designed for WW2 era .30 caliber rifles burned really dirty in the M-16's, which made more fouling, gumming up the action. Stoner had recommended certain things in his design which were thrown out when the bean counters showed up. It was like a car manufacture recommending gasoline, but the owner fills their car with diesel and then blames the car.
If you use a chrome plated bolt and carrier, you can run the rifle/carbine bone dry in any any environment with a little oil on the outside of the barrel for rust protection. Running a rifle or carbine with a black oxide finish, which sucks for rust protection, you NEED lubrication. If you're in the arctic, you have to use lube designed for freezing conditions, if you're in a dusty environment, you need to run it dry or sloppy wet, a little oil just attracts sand and dust. Just like inside a car engine, lots of oil displaces dirt and metal shavings that will make your engine (or rifle) malfunction. With military personnel receiving conflicting information (dry, sparingly oiled, sloppy wet), they had stoppages in the field until they figured it out some time later and doctrines changed. Modern barrels, depending on what the rifle/carbine is used for may or may not have a chrome lined barrel to prevent barrel wear, but chrome lining in the bore affects accuracy, so most Designated Rifles don't have chrome lined barrels, their barrels are made of a different barrel than the regular issued rifles. When they reach their limit, they get a new barrel installed.
Of course, shooting ammo designed for a full length (20" barrel) rifle in a carbine with a 14.5" or shorter barrel affects accuracy and lethality which took even longer to resolve with new issue ammo.
The current Army issue is the M855A1 which is solid machined copper with the steel penetrator tip. It's super accurate and efficient so it retains it's velocity better than the regular M855 ammo. The Seals and Special Forces use a match grade 77 grain open tipped match ammo which is super accurate at range. When the Marines experimented with it in the field, they got called into a war trial tribunal. Their skills, optics, and the ammo was so good, they were making head shots at 200 and 300 yards making it look like they were executing prisoners. They had figured out that the magazine carriers full of steel AK mags slowed down or stopped their rounds at range (200+ yards), plus they were playing "Whack A Mole" as they were popping their heads up over cover. Garand Thumb, pronounced with a hard "G" like "Garage", uses mostly 77 grain OTM ammo to replicate what the Special Forces and SEALs would experience.
I gotta go to sleep, its 4:30 in the morning😴😴
You should react to garand thumb's new video about The Compact SIG Spear Assaulter K
My ex-gf’s dad was a Colonel was one of the officers in charge of the future warrior program back then. It was pretty interesting but don’t remember a ton as it was quite a while ago.
It was just a really expensive, modular M16. For all the money the DoD pissed away on that program, it ended up producing a rifle that wasn't any better than the M16.
I carried an M4 in Iraq. It NEVER let me down. The M4/M16 simply doesn't need to be replaced.
@@ExUSSailor Well, even the AR platform - M4/M16 has its weakness - harsh cold climate. _(It's performance would be suboptimal if hypothetically war broke out with Russia, which is very real possibility)_
That's why for example, after a lot of testing, the Alaskan PD of Kodiak City had chosen the AK platform over anything else for its superior reliability in the cold climate.
@BloPsy__ there's a few other options than just an ak 101
@@Anarcho-harambeism It's possible, but I have no knowledge of the freeze tests of other platforms. I just know that from the test of 1984, following rifles were tested - Galil 5.56 and 7.62, HK-91/93/93A3, Valmet, Mini 14, M1A, Colt M16 and AR15, FAL, FNC.
Galil and Valmet had zero malfunctions, FNC come second after setting the gas regulator to adverse conditions. All others failed.
@BloPsy__ I've personally never had an issue in sub zero conditions, with an m4 you need to make sure the weapon is kept clean and relatively dry. But surprisingly bolt actions are used often,
2 billion dollars? Congress would be dropping over something that cheap nowadays
20:21 thats wrong,every us military weapons must be made in the us, us can use foreign weapons first but they have to be made in the us
U should react larry vickers xm8 my friend.
So this weapon was at one point combined with a smart grenade launcher And the 2 of them combined was the xm29 Ebb does aren't you a video that the fat electrician I did on it that you should react too
This dude in the original video sometimes seems like hes just reading and doesnt know as much as he acts like. Like, he said in 2002 they went to that peo company to "finally" replace the m4. But the m4 hadn't been completely adopted by then. Only like 6 or 7 years from when they started getting. Hell there are pictures of marines in Iraq in 2005-06 still using m16.. if he meant m16 in the beginning of the video since the m16 has been in service since the 60s, he should have said that.. would think I guy who runs a channel about this should would notice
Like many others of 40 years ago, I wore the uniform but never deployed. My thought is if they do change over to 6.8 mm and yes less CQB friendly rifle; perhaps, take the P90 and increase barrel for 5.56 NATO rounds for the spec ops personnel at least?
"Garand Thumb" (AKA M1 Thumb) was what you get if you leave your thumb in the way when you reload a stripper clip into one and the bolt wins the race.
There's a few ways to pronounce Garand: There's "GA-rand" which is what most veterans said historically, and there's also "gare-AND" which is closer to how the designer pronounced his name. Both are technically correct (and I use them pretty interchangeably) but I have seen flame wars begin over which one is better.
My favorite AR in all of the CoD franchise
The smart grenade launcher that was originally built with that rifle used the same trigger as the rifle and the grenades were illegal, because they were too light to be considered grenades, meaning that they were technically exploding bullets, which have been illegal since the 1860s.
"weird scifi halo looking gun." Garand thumb has a video on a reproduction of the halo gun. You might enjoy that.
It's called corruption
This gun sucks. I got to shoot one years ago. It was extremely hot after only a couple mags. IDK what hes talking about when he says "several mags very quickly before it got hot." Not my experience. Sounds like gun corpo spin. It also felt brittle/cheap. Also I cant speak for the provinggrounds trials, but we had several double feeds. Garbage.
Sadly, it was rushed, but if it had the time to get all the quirks fixed, It would have been a decent rifle because the G36 is a success.
"Sounds like gun corps spin."
Bruh, this bait? The video is about how the gun failed. You'd have to be an idiot to think he was selling you the thing.
if bait, 10/10 would bite again.
@@TheLPRnetwork You misunderstood my point. Let me clarify for you. Chris was reading the proving grounds report. That report was, in my opinion, spin. I never said he was trying to sell the weapon. I'm saying the people who wrote that report were.....because they were. The heat issue is well known.
@SECURITYLM You definitely could have worded that better. It sounded like you meant chris as a whole, not just the report. You kinda mixed the two seamlessly without clarifying who you meant at what part.
Edit: Yeah, reading it several times, you could have started with mentioning the report first.
XM-8 is a weird gun and how it original self could of been a war crime in the XM-29 so you are not wrong in thinking it looks like something from fantasy like Halo or Starship Troopers. The Fat Electrician did a video on it and its wild what America wastes money on before deleting it but always find so way to make sure it can't be a failure so you can't complain because it produced something "useful"
This weapon has been in Call of Duty for years
It's the M8A1 from BO2
That is what it would be called if the weapon was approved.
@@TerraZetzz I sure fuggin hope so🤣🤣
Fat Electrician has a video on this.
USA be changing their rifle with new once every 10 years😅😂😂 what is the rifle russia is using rn? ITS VIRTUALLY THE SAME OLD AK-47 from the 50s😅😂😂 not much has changed to it upto now .. yes they made MODERN AK47 but the mechanism, the structure of the rifle itself still remains the same to what it was when they first used it .. the best battle rifle in human history! as much as americans hate it BUT RUSSIAN WEAPONS ARE BETTER! look "futuristic" doesnt always means BETTER😅 USA military is now, yet again!!😅 going to use a new battle rifle! its from SIG, and its basically an M4 with a bigger caliber, yes! USA decided not to use the NATO 5.56 ... thats actually one of the selling point of the new US service rifle! its ammo is special .. they did something with the gun powders & sh*t apparently .. RUSSIA STILL USES AN AK😅😅😅😅
Russia hasn't used the ak47 for decades. They use ak74s and ak12s now.
They also have rifles just for eltie troops. Like the aek/kord family of rifles.
Here we are again ladies and gents. Being schooled by a Britt who's country has no gun culture. They're a lot more interesting channels by real American Vets and just plain gun enthusiasts. He should stick with appealing to his Indian base. And I'm not talking about Native Americans.🤣🤣🤣🤣
no one laughed 💀
The dude is former Royal Marines bro. Military is military, doesnt matter what country a person is from. Terminology might be different, weapons might be different, culture might be different but experience is universal. If you cant respect that then hopefully you'll never join the military or own a firearm because you dont know basic respect.
@@CalebRWXbox Military is Military? You have respect for the Russian Military, Chinese. North Korean.
you must be a millenial.
@@johnzubil2875 since we’re assuming i can assume you’re a lacking 60 year old with severe weight problems that has no contact with his kids anymore