PHEVs: Progress or Problem? Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe First Impressions
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Scott takes a walk around the new hybrid Jeep Grand Cherokee to give his input on the pros and cons of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs).
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#Jeep #GrandCherokee #PHEV
This makes me appreciate how simple fully electric cars are. I understand PHEV being like 'training wheels" for some people to adopt BEV, but from my understanding, a large number pf PHEV owners get full BEV's for their next vehicle.
Yeah, it's crazy to add all the extra engineering to include the ICE and all the requisite peripherals when all you need do is expand the EV side of the vehicle.
That's the idea though, they go from the training wheels to the real thing.
A lot of EV owners have it as a second vehicle. If you can only have one vehicle a PHEV is a good option.
I've been driving an Ioniq PHEV for 3.5 years now and it's been a great bridge vehicle, as the charging infrastructure wasn't there to make routine trips to my favourite ski hills feasible. I'm happy to say that's all changed now though, so in another few years I'll likely move on to a Kia EV6.
This is so 2000-2010. The time of this nonsense has come and gone.
Scott Hoffman is a powerhouse communicator. Clear, sharp, smart presentation and content; this guy is a Munro Live Gem.
To the point, IMO Hybrids and PHEV's make little to no sense. In fact, it's essentially twice the complexity and parts. Scott makes clear why this is a really stupid idea. Twenty years ago there was a clearly a need for the Hybrid to get people thinking about the transition to more sustainable transportation. But today, we are there. Who's not there? Jeep. Stellantis. Toyota. Honda. Subaru. Others.
EDIT - And look how inefficient the vehicle is with electric power: 17 KWH battery yields only 25 range; 1.5M/KW. Not great! So far to go, Jeep.
Too much iron to drag around.
@@jamesvandamme7786 An extra 80kWh of battery weighs more than all of the ICE components, which would still probably be a bit small of a battery for a vehicle of this size and aero.
It is not the weight of the "iron" that makes the vehicle inefficient.
I feel like Jeep missed an opportunity to do a BEV w/range extender as we saw in the Volt. The motor for the range extender is smaller, less complicated, and could be placed in the rear to skip an exhaust tunnel, allowing for a 40+ kWh pack. For people who want to do road trips & overlanding, having 400 miles of range is important. That would mean a 200 kWh battery pack. That means the same batteries could build 4 or 5 BEV with 80 or so miles of all-electric range and a backup gas range extender, which was seldom a problem on the Volt.
@@Nphen Mazda has an interesting idea. First design an EV. then put in a small, light Wankel at optimum RPM to charge the battery.Most hybrids do it backwards.
Great presentation. You are a very effective communicator, really packed a ton of information in this one. Well done!
Loved my '90 Cherokee and '95 Grand, but now I'm BEV only going forward. My model Y is fantastic, hope to get the girlfriend a Model 3 next year and axe our gas vehicles.
Thank you kindly!
@@MunroLive It's a good job this wasn't isn't live! Because judging by this crowd, I think Scott would be wiping stuff off himself and nursing some bruises.
THANKS SCOTT, FOR AN EXHAUSTIVE REVIEW 😂💚💚💚
@@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461 Two drums and a cymbal fell off a cliff
Great presentation, clear and concise - I have had a negative perception of Jeep quality & reliability although never owning one, strange how ones perceptions are formed. Not withstanding I cannot see myself buying any hybrid vehicle, although in Australia with our large landmass and our as yet limited fast charging network I can see why people are drawn to them. Every additional component is another potential failure, the older the vehicle becomes the higher the failure rate. I wonder what the long term used valuation of these vehicles will be compared to a BEV
Nice break down of the system! Great job.
Thanks!
All this complexity that can break, needing expensive repair. Glad i made the jump to EV so much less to break down.
Which EV did you get?
@@Narcissist_Police
Driving a model Y, tow my Alto trailer, see no reason for a Hybrid.
Great job focusing on the features. You showed great discipline in not throwing stones. You must have lived in a glass house at some point. Don’t let Sandy anywhere close to this one, but if you do, I’m making popcorn.
Sandy needed a holiday after taking a look under the hood. 😉
MUNRO - first principles, the BEST engine, is no Engine.
The blue accents are the most passe thing ever.
Though I can’t quote a source, I e heard on somebodies channel that a very high percentage of PHEV are never or rarely charged, so only use the ICE. Believe that was discussed relative to the list of vehicles approved for the IRA (aka the legacy bailout act).
GM did a huge study on Volt owners and 80% of them plugged in every day. And almost 90+% plugged them in regularly..
REAL-WORLD USAGE OF PLUG-INHYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLES FUEL CONSUMPTION, ELECTRIC DRIVING, AND CO2 EMISSIONS
Patrick Plötz, Cornelius Moll, Georg Bieker, Peter Mock, Yaoming Li
ICCT Sept 2020.
As if a Chrysler product wasn't bad enough, just add more complexity and it will surely get better!
😂😂😂
That’s just mean, man.😂
@@stever5359 When the junk man towed away our last Dodge, I swore no MoPar will ever darken our driveway again. Mostly by leaking oil on it and dropping rust.
A PHEV is more complex in design but it does not necessarily meant that it is more prone to failure. It really depends on design. This particular Jeep is basically ICE car + electric subsystem so it may be less reliable, but if you look at cars like Outlander PHEV which is basically a BEV with ICE part which works more like a generator and such design could be more reliable than a traditional ICE car. So for example Outlander PHEV will drive only using the electric motors up to ~40 mph and there is no traditional gearbox or any other extra components such as turbo chargers or direct injection. Since the electric components will be used more often which are in general less prone to failure when compared to ICE components, the car in general becomes more reliable. For Outlander PHEV based on some available data it looks like ICE version failed more often than a PHEV over the last ~10 years of its existence. Over the last 10 years Outlander PHEV practically had no serious issues especially if you compare to other ICE cars. Most common issue is the fast degrading high voltage battery, but then that battery is also very old using not so good tech. If you take the newest Outlander PHEV then it could be even more reliable than the old model was.
You should really check cars like Outlander PHEV or RAV4 Prime to see how reliable PHEVs are done. Both are already proven by time to be reliable. The Jeep from this video looks like a primitive version PHEV compared to those other designs and therefore I would not be surprised if they would fail more often then equivalent ICE version of the same car.
25 miles? Wow! How do they manage such an incredible feat?
:)
Going down the hatch... 😉
After they were done designing a gas engine car, they stuffed in whatever battery and motor would fit.
You know, at some point we’re going to have to recon with the fact that most of our driving is short range and that we’re wasting resources putting giant batteries in every electric car offered.
@@deathraylabs_nature If we had fast chargers all over the place that would start to change people's perception. It would lower the price and weight of cars. But Mazda tried to sell an EV with 100 miles range, people laughed (and it was too expensive).
Excellent analysis. Thanks, Scott.
PHEVs are ridiculous. The name is a misnomer. They really should be called hybrid ICE vehicles. The EV in the name is just clever marketing.
Legacy auto could kick some butt if they'd make range extended BEVS. A bespoke series hybrid BEV (say 30 kWh) would fill the bill for a lot of people.
But legacy auto is either too stubborn or too stupid to figure that out.
super breakdown Scott! this jeep was probably the #1 SUV in the Nation, for the last 35 yrs...
1998 JGC for sale, only 500K miles! used gingerly...
interesting 2 see the mechanical ''progression''.. look'n forward 2 see all the presentations!!
To me this is the segment that has the most to gain from PHEV. This or maybe semi’s. PHEVs give you the torque of the EV power train, and the range of an ICE engine. No ICE car in this segment has anything close to that MPG. I do agree that there are a lot of things on board that could fail, but with a BEV you are at the mercy of the charging network, and that network is not good.
And ICE is at the mercy of the gas station network...... If you want to know how to do a PHEV properly just look at modern trains all their diesel engines do is make electricity for electric motors.
It's worth noting that the power and torque you get from the electric motors in a PHEV is generally less than you get in a full BEV.
@@directorjustin there are currently like 12 gas stations within a mile of my house. The nearest DC fast charger is like 10 miles away and only a 150kw station. And other than tesla chargers I hear all the time about chargers being out. Gas pumps are down often too, but when there is another gas station next door I don’t care so much. I think charging infrastructure needs about 5-10 more years to mature. For now PHEVs make sense.
@@DanielBogerhave had tesla for 4.5 years and never found a dead tesla supercharger
@@Barskor1 I agree that trains are a good example of hybrid done right. Years ago I saw a thing where Oshkosh trucks were working on a hybrid that worked like that for heavy/military trucks. If fast chargers were half as common as gas stations we wouldn’t need PHEVs
There's another problem with hybrids, the majority of people that own them never plug them in.
Most EV users plug them in daily. Not sure where you're getting that info. Guessing?
@@tomgnyc I said hybirds not EV's, and it was a report that I believe it was autoline daily mentioned
I've had a hybrid for over 14 years and never plugged it in; haven't found the cord or the place to yet!
Will look when it occurs to me, which so far it hasn't!
If I owned a PHEV, I would use it in all electric mode (charged) as much as possible, except for cycling the gas every 3 months or so!
@@tomgnyc REAL-WORLD USAGE OF PLUG-INHYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLES
FUEL CONSUMPTION, ELECTRIC DRIVING, AND CO2 EMISSIONS
Patrick Plötz, Cornelius Moll, Georg Bieker, Peter Mock, Yaoming Li
ICCT Sept 2020
It amazes me how hybrids started in cars like the Toyota Prius vs trucks/SUV’s with more room.
GREAT JOB GUYS 🙏👏👏👏...HAVE A BEAUTIFUL FRIDAY EVERYONE ✌️
Thank you! You too!
Thank you!
You're very welcome!
When I worked as a design engineer, we had a saying: "get fancy get f**ked." A pure EV built on a chassis specifically designed for EVs is a superior solution.
Just leased a new Overland 4XE and I loveeeee it. This is hybrid is very new to me, and so I leased it only for 24 months. Want to taste the water, first time. The ride is super, the transition from electric to gas is flawless. One way to work + half back is all electric. I can't complain. If you are getting one, be prepare to upgrade to level 2 charger. Trust me, you will and its ok. Good to have one anyways.
Great job Scott I enjoy it
Great first look. Very well done. And congratulations for the baby !
Very Good. Ya did it again!
Didn’t Sandy own the Wrangler 4xe before he got the Rivian. I know we at least have video of him having some fun on a trail with the Wrangler.
Never thought I would be surprised to find a motor where the frunk should be... but here we are, and there it is.
Great job! Thank you
Our pleasure!
Blue accents, blue E logo's...all remnants of 15 years ago. Makes me laugh when I see it on new cars. Tells me all I need to know about the future of the OEM who does it.
MUNRO - fun FACT, the Tesla RWD Drivetrain is more powerful than any turbo Drivetrain.
Nope, bugatti have Higher Peak power. At zero rpm sure any ev is more powerfull. Besides, rimac is more impressive than tesla.
Blablabla Tesla like always!Are you Elons boyfriend?Can you talk about something else on a carchannel!
Sandy can u say something about the unreliability of jeep dodge chrysler. Almost always major issues around 100k miles
Nah, ours lasted 110,000 before we junked it.
Great explanation and review
Thanks!
So, if I am understanding you correctly, PHEV's are the worst of both worlds: full gas engine and under-powered electric? 😄
A PHEV can be a great vehicle if executed well. The need for reliability goes up, but if the manufacturer _does_ make a reliable drive system, the cost and quality of life benefits of a PHEV over a regular ICE vehicle can be big.
Belt starter generators are a very old thing, just not on cars. Good and beefy and should be great on a 4 cylinder. Obviously the vehicle is complicated - that's the trade off to the flexibility and performance it offers.
Good Video Sir. This Vehicle make no sense to me. I mean 25 Miles? Such a halfhearted effort in making this Jeep. I do feel you gave the Jeep more credit then it deserves. Keep up the Great Videos TEAM MUNRO.
Always thought it was an eyesore to put blue trim on non blue cars. Seen several manufacturers do it.
It looks like protective film that someone forgot to peel off.
Those blue hooks say it all for me.
European’s will
Offer the Porsche Macan fully electric SUV next year. Big 3 in slow mow!
Jeep did make an all electric vehicle back in the 1970s used by the postal service.
PHEV’s added to tax credits to allow legacy auto a couple more years to catch up to Tesla.
You mean extend how long ICE remains relevant, so all the execs can line up their golden parachutes before the final collapse...
How much weight (approximate) is the ice engine and all of it's supporting components - which the electric motors have to push around?
Less than 80 kWh of additional battery that would be the minimum needed for a BEV.
Both systems (PHEV/BEV) lug around a bunch of unused weight for 95% of their trips. EV's do it with a bunch of extra battery for the 40 mile commute, and PHEVs carry a ICE range extender.
For at least the next 15-20 years when charging stations are everywhere and full charge takes less than 45 minutes the PHEV is the smartest choice
The IR view is incredible.
Might as well add one more electrical connection and give the turbo some juice to decrease lag.
A range extender design would so much better.
Personally I think PHEVs are a disaster. Would never own one. Way to complicated.
Pluginhybrids are the best!I want the new Prius!
@@brunoheggli2888 no!
Nice breakdown of the systems on the 4xe. I purchased a Summit Reserve and I love the materials incorporated on the higher trim offerings. I would like Munro to use this vehicle to explain the differences between a serial and parallel electric motor drive system. From what I understand, this vehicle is a bit more unique on how it can deliver electrical drive power verse some other PHEVs. The great part of this system is the operator control options on power delivery. For me, my daily drives will be nearly all on electric but I will still be able to take advantage of great efficiency on medium range trips, ~100 miles or so. For longer trips, it still will get great fuel efficiency when leaving with a full battery charge. Thoughts?
The single seater traffic jam sitter 😉
Since the added complexity of the PHEV choice is an engineering issue, telling us what the added cost of the PHEV compared to the equivalent ICE only model would be useful, and also a comparison of the relative fuel consumption and weight. This is a very big, bulky, heavy vehicle so not really an eco friendly choice.
A lot of people don't have the ability to charge at home or at work, so this might be a good choice....
Well, everyboby has electricity at home. Quite everbody in developed countries around the globe.
It seems to me that an all electric drive train with a range extending engine would be a better compromise. Essentially an integrated gas powered generator under the hood. From a manufacturing perspective, there would be a lot of uncommon components, which makes it a financial issue, but from a system perspective it seems it would be better.
Thats what the volt does,
No gearbox its just an EV with range extender and its a very efficient design.
Turbine electric would be my choice. Turbines can run on about anything, are compact and light, and work best at a single speed - matched to a generator.
@@hallkbrdz i think Mazda’s rotary engine range extender, could be a hit too.
Simple and light
@@FreekHoekstra The last gasp of the Wankel. If they run at a constant speed they might be pretty efficient.
@@FreekHoekstra The ICE powertrain in the Volt has a planetary gear set and a set of clutches that take the place of a traditional transmission. Using these, It can make a physical connection to the wheels under various circumstances.
2 powertrains to go wrong after warranty expires. Not needed with long range BEV’s now. Hybrids initially as a bridge until BEV’s had a better range. Manufacturing loves hybrids as ice part needs maintenance
@@user-3tf67bk46u How do ICE owners run their household's electricity supply in blackouts?
@@waynerussell6401 With generators? Last much longer than battery solutions. But honestly only a very small minority of the population have either, and for good reason. The US electric grid is very stable and the cost outlay for a backup solution is generally not worth it.
Congratulations on the second daughter!
Waber auto Channel explains best the drive trains .. can we take some ideas from there
This kind of hybrid like the Prius has aged and could use a more electrified system. SUVs trucks require a lot of batteries that go unused except towing and long range. Using a small turbocharge ICE could do without an extra large battery pack, limiting the battery capacity to regen braking or acceleration they target.
I’m kind of surprised they don’t use the same system they use in the Pacifica hybrid.
Yeah, curious. Ford is using the hybrid transmission on the hybrid Maverick, but Toyota went with a conventional transmission on the tundra hybrid because of towing requirements.
When you say all the added parts and complexity, I would say why add the complexity of ice, drive shafts, fuel tank, cooling ,exhaust etc …
It wasn't added. It already existed
1. Jeep has had air suspensions in their vehicles for years. The air suspension is NOT a thing taken from the Rivian.
2. Jeep already has their first BEV called the Jeep Avenger, unfortunately it's not being released here in America yet but it has been announced in Europe and is being released there. It's kind of a mini or micro Jeep. The range isn't great but it's a nice-looking tiny Jeep.
I think the main reason they haven't released it in America is that it's currently only front wheel drive with the all-wheel drive version to be released at a later date. A 2-wheel drive jeep would be heresy here in the states and they would never hear the end of it so I get why it's not here yet. And with range soap or with only two wheel drive I'm assuming they held off on releasing here until they can up the range of the all-wheel drive.
3. Hybrids make a ton of sense for a lot of people in the states. America is big and a lot of it is rural. I live in a rural state with hardly any electrical infrastructure and we have Winters with temperatures as low as -40F sometimes with negative temps for extended periods of time. A BEV makes no sense in a place with no infrastructure, with extremely cold winters and where almost everything is a 70+mile drive away. I used to commute 82 miles one way to work each day and spend over 2500 miles a month on the road for just work travel. Add in personal travel and a BEV is just not a good option with today's tech. Maybe someday, but but now.
Anyway, just an FYI.
"It is trail rated as the badge says" lmfao
The Chevrolet Volt was a landmark vehicle for 2011 with 35 miles of range (later in 2013 increased to 38 miles). Unfortunately, PHEVs just weren't desirable yet like they are now. It was a product ahead of its time.
It's sad that they couldn't do a transverse FWD engine and have more batteries in the transmission tunnel and have a rear electric motor, but they need somewhere to run the exhaust.
Looking forward to when they do a fully electric version. Electric Classic Cars has made some really cool electric Land Rover conversions which seem to perform really well.
Jeep could have used an Model Y setup with a (serial) ICE genset in the frunk or trunk, like BMW did with "i3 REX".
It has been said that most PHEV owners don't bother plugging them in so it is actually extra hardware and extra weight being driven around. Does it have regen? can the alternator charge the big battery? I think standard hybrids in the long run are a better solution in terms of how most people don't bother plugging them in.
People also don't like plugging in a BEV. They'll risk fast charging now and then to get home.
I know this was the case in the early days of PHEV, especially as early adopters were fleets and government vehicles which employees were expected to charge the vehicle when their fuel was otherwise paid for. I would like to see more up to date statistics, as I doubt this is the case as typically running on electric is half the cost of gasoline.
I would never PHEV for some of the concerns mentioned. Heavier, more maintenance, more failures and still having to do oil changes.
I feel like the next logical step for the Jeep Grand Cherokee might be something like a 50 Kwh battery with a range extender as we saw for the Chevy Volt. It's a lot less complicated than a full gas drivetrain w/exhaust. This would give it at least 75 miles of all-electric range, allow for a full-electric drivetrain, and if they're smart, they can reduce their 3 cooling systems to 1 with a heat pump. This would allow for over 300 miles of range for 1/3 of the batteries. Having a generator built-in makes for a great camping/overlanding vehicle. That might be good enough for the next 6 to 8 years for Jeep.
I have always seen Wagoneer owners as having more money than sense. Rich people ain't got time to make the informed decision on a "car." They just get a pretty big-un with a cool luxury vibe. Now go steal the most recent cyber(nota)truck and git er done.
I miss my Volt, I thought it was the best of both worlds. 50 mile EV range for my daily driving, gas for longer trips. The back seat was just too cramped with the T shaped battery and of course it was discontinued. Really wish there was a 50-75 mile range EV with gas range extender, all PHEVs seem to be only ~30 miles of range and would prefer EV with range extender with the primary EV drive and single speed trans.
Second this.
Thete comes a new Prius pluginhybrid!
History will show GM had it so right with Volt.
Poor marketing and consumer confusion let it down.
PHEVs need to be more EV-ish as you said, with single-speed trannies and a small, light ICE.
@@donswier Mazda MX-30.
small battery seems like it would be a shorter life as it would often discharge most of the way.
With higher front hood lines SUV/trucks camera/infrared
Probably will be mandated like rear camera to see in front
You certainly "gave away" your knowledge and expertise by talking non-stop for 20 minutes :) Great video
My 2018 Chrysler Pacifica PHEV has been a PITA. I'll 1- never by Chrysler 2- a PHEV. Once it's repaired again, selling and buying a fully electric vehicle.
I took delivery of a new 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe Summit Reserve on the 6th of April. I've had issues with it since it arrived. I had several phone calls with Jeep about software issues, which I think we resolved and then a few days later the orange engine light came on. Dealership said it was ok to drive if the vehicle wasn't having issues. The light might just go away. It did go away and came back several times. I brought it in and it took a week to figure it out and update software. Then I'm 2 miles from dealership and it comes on again. They found out it was something different this time. The battery coolant system was failing. The part is on backorder and there are none at any dealerships in the US. Chrysler is supposedly working to find or have the part manufactured. I'm without my vehicle again..... It's June 1st, 2023, and I've owned the vehicle for 7 weeks... I love the vehicle, but $94,000 with tax title and accessories and it still isn't working correctly. I am a Jeep person, but not happy atm....
Why not asking for a loaner? I would not leave the dealer without a car. They can call the police, don't care. I surly hope you insisted for one.
(True Story - Above and beyond Jeep Customer Service Story - I have no affiliation with any part of the auto industry.)
(Vehicle - 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe Summit Reserve [4xe is a plug-in hybrid]. This replaced my 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit)
(Part - Coolant Pump for battery)
I'm retired from the IT field, so I have a lot of patience now. Yes, they absolutely provided a loaner! I ended up with a lower end trim 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee from Enterprise Rent A Car. It worked fine, just so few features. :)
I was given 3 different dates by the dealership that the part was supposed to arrive and obviously didn't. At about 3.5 weeks of frustration I decided to call Jeep Wave Program about the part not being available. I honestly didn't think they would be able to help. I called on a Friday midday and was I assigned a Case Manager on Monday. She left me a phone message and email on Monday evening. The next day it was reassigned to a different case manager. The new case manager answered her phone about 80% of the times I called. She replied to every email I sent within 4-5 business hours. Even after the case was finished, she sent me a few emails checking on me. I was shocked.
She helped by going to a specialized parts division of Jeep and it appeared as though they were able to prioritize the part since my vehicle was marked as VOR (Vehicle Off Road) and sent it to my dealership within 3 days. It took they almost a week to get it replaced.
Upon picking up my vehicle I opened to back to put all my junk from the rental into my vehicle. The dealership had it for so long that they forgot they had taken off the protective undercoating and put it in the back of my vehicle. I had to wait another hour. I've had the vehicle for a month now and it's working perfect.
I asked my case manager what she could do for me for all the trouble. I had made about 30 phone calls and drove to the dealership twice to discuss the issue with Service and Sales.
She offered to pay my loan for time I didn't have the vehicle, once my vehicle was back in my possession and working properly. I was shocked they'd even offer that. I have since received the check and deposited it.
I paid for the Max Care 8yr/100k warranty when I bought the vehicle. I asked if they could extend it a few months for the same time I didn't have the vehicle. She didn't have to ask anyone, she said they'd give the entire 8 year warranty to me for free. I had to cancel my warranty and she replaced it with the same exact warranty at no cost. I canceled it at the dealership, receiving the prorated amount (about 97%) of my money back and they actually did attach the same Max Care Warranty to my vehicle. My dealership said they can see it on the vehicle and it was sold to me by Jeep Customer Care. They also confirmed it was the 8yr/100k warranty with the same deductible. Although I was pissed to not have my new vehicle, I don't know that I could praise Jeep's Customer Service more than taking the time to write a recount of the story. I honestly thought I was going to be jacked around and it was the total opposite.
BTW, I was polite the entire time. I never had to raise my voice and vent frustration.
When my warranty runs up, I'm pretty sure I'll end up with another Jeep!!
@@philardoin3783 well, disappointed to hear all those issues on a new Jeep. But, glad they cared for you. It's my 4th GC and never had any issues. Just one time, radiator hose leak, under warranty repair. This new Overland 4XE I just got now, did have a software issue, when I got it. Could not communicate with over the air connection. Dealer was lost a bit. Said, new radio/brain needs to be replaced. Went home, called Jeep CC, got a case agent. It took them 24 hrs to call me back, asking me to sit in the car and follow instructions over the phone. 15 mins later, all solved and the unit came back to life. Dealer wanted to do right, I never called them back. I don't need free car washes....lol. other then that, this new gen Jeep is so wonderful. I have no issues with the plug in. Going to install level 2 charger in my garage. Ordered Autel hardwired unit. Getting ready for full electric car in the future, for my wife.
This would be great to lease new,but not purchase due to it’s complexity. Does it qualify for the full EV tax incentives?
My sister has the van with this system and it doesn't work in the winter.
It’s an 8 speed automatic transition…and it’s the same exact one used in BMW, Mercedes and others.
Thank you for sharing your point of view. Looks good but that is something I would consider 10 years ago to Dave on fuel ⛽️ 2023 I would go for model X or wait for cyber truck.
Not really comparable vehicles. You can almost get two of these for the cost of the Model X. ($65k and qualifies for federal rebate vs $110k with no rebate)
@@eric4903 yes you can but it costs you 3 times more in fuel, services and reliability. Go back to getting a Tesla. You pay more but it saves you more .
@@MrSteelAu It is hard to determine what the lifetime mpg will be for a PHEV as it is really dependent on the individual use case, which is why the buyer needs to look at it objectively.
Still, assuming the Cherokee 4xe runs up to half the time on gasoline, for 150k miles that would be $13k in gas @ $4 /gal and $6.3k in electric at $0.15 kwhr for a total of roughly $20k.
If the Tesla were only charged at home for the full 150k miles, it may also only cost ~$6.5k due to its much more efficient design; but recharging at Superchargers has a decent cost parity to filling an ICE with gas; so again hard to nail down exact costs. Maybe assume 25% Supercharger which brings the cost to about $10k total instead.
Only a $10k savings in fuel over a "lifetime", and even the most egregious estimates on maintenance differences will not add up to the remaining $50k price advantage.
This is assuming the vehicles are inherently equal however, and many would prefer the Tesla due to the inherent benefits which come with an EV.
@@eric4903 thank you for your basic explanation for people who can be easily manipulated. However those well informed educated people will tell you based on facts of ownership a hybrid like me when I invested in a hybrid 20 years ago you are investing in a vehicle that is comprised. You have a2 power train ( iCE and elec) ICe is high grade tech that is achieved by tight tolerance and soft rings in the engine meaning you get a lot of power and good economy . But you compromised the reliability if you on a long drive those rings wearing out fast ending up costing you a rebuild oops you just lost all the money you saved in fuel ⛽️ because a rebuild is very expensive. The electric is only good if the vehicle is light. When loaded with family and luggage. The current draw will delete the battery fast. Oops you just lost more money because you have a tiny battery 🪫 meaning the iCE have to work extra hard to cover the family and luggage and dead weight of the now useless electrical drive system. You better off getting pure ICE drive that is reliable and capable of handling long drive loaded with you family. Or go puss electric with a good size battery and drive unit suitable and fit for purpose. Omg I am too technical for you sorry I’ll back off .
@@MrSteelAu My first PHEV was a 2013 Volt which I sold at 150k miles, still mechanically sound.
The only maintenance performed was 4 engine oil changes, 1 transmission oil change, 1 engine air filter, 2 cabin air filters, a set of headlights, and 2 sets of tires. The ICE maintenance was often free, included with the vehicle, but even at market rates cost under $300 for the lifetime of the vehicle.
The vehicle ran roughly 75% EV through the lifetime, no unscheduled maintenance required. The vehicle was more versatile and overall a much cleaner product that an equivalent large battery BEV; at the time the only long range BEV would have been a Model S at 2-3 times the cost.
I am an automotive engineer; feel free to speak more technically.
I was wondering why eAC is called a 'air' compressor, essentially we dont use compressed air in vehicle refrigeration. It is the refrigerant gas that needs compression. right?
Congratulations in advance for the birth of your next child!
Wow I have forgotten how cluttered ICE engine engine bays are. What a waste of space as compared to purpose made EV.
Too many things to need service and break.
Luxury is not having to put up with all the service and maintenance requirements!
Stellantis doesn’t have time to F around with PHEVs…. taking this route will be their demise.
Yeah, the clock is ticking faster and louder against these legacy constructions and lazy companies. Toyotas first Prius was more advanced than this PHEV Jeep.
How much is the extended warranty? 🤣
In a place full of engineers, you don't notice the retractable air line mounted upside down..
That Jeep is already producing 100% electric cars (Jeep Avenger). We are in a transition phase and I think electric is winning over hydrogen. This car is great in this transition phase, but not for everyone. If you plan to use it only in the city then an electric car is better. If, on the other hand, you are between the city and the countryside or in the countryside, in areas with little coverage by electric columns, or if you take long journeys, you know that you will need a car like this if you don't want to run dry. In Italy from 2026 Stellantis will produce almost exclusively electric or hybrid cars. The same will happen in the USA. P.S. always if a new more competitive engine does not arrive.
My powerwall for my home 14 kwh storage.
Back to the future! I had a PHEV
GM Chevy VOLT in 2015
EV Range of it as not been beat yet to my knowledge
Some people nee PHeV as a stepping stone and outlier case
Get introduced to electric range anxiety LOl
Our Tesla MY 7seat been a beauty No more anxiety Supercharger baby !! Vancouver To mexico and beyond
Second gen Volt was a big step from the first, 53 miles of EV range.
Still nothing beats the I3 REx as far as I know. Biggest battery version was the 120 Ah REx, 126 miles electric before switching to the tiny gas engine.
More parts in PHEV, that is correct. What you have missed is that those parts wouldn’t run as hard as ICE or BEV. You almost got double life.
EV’s are the endgame, but plug-in hybrids are a unfairly chastised option, that actually works really well for almost everyone with very little compromise.
For example The Chevy volt is a brilliant car. Its extremely efficient, it does an advertised 53 miles electric but can easily do 70+ on battery, and it still does great mileage on the engine about 53 miles to the gallon in my case. That’s a great compromise.
Every time I drive around in town it’s going to be electric, but if I need to go to Yellowstone I don’t need to worry about that one charger I really need being broken.
Also since it only took 18 kW you can build 4 volts for each model Y.
So given we are battery constrained still, this is probably actually the best way to have the most electric miles driven overall.
(80% of miles driven in Chevy volts are electric, so 4x0.8=3.2
Basically the choices are four Chevy volts, or one model Y and three traditional cars. And the Holtz definitely win that efficiency game.
That said there are many plug-in hybrids that have an abysmal range or terribly inefficient engine, the volt is great cause no gearbox, its really an EV plus a small generator, which means additional complexity is minimized. Although there is ofcourse some.
So yes EV’s are the endgame but people should let go of their hatred of plug-in hybrids imho. They are great options if well designed.
HaHa
Frank, I agree. I have a 2012 Chevy Volt. 125,000+ miles about which 75% has been electric only. My Volt has been 100% reliable. It only requires service every two years, and I am still on my original brakes. I also have a truck that I only use for towing a camper. Give range considerations and lack of charging infrastructure, I do not think I would ever own a BEV tow vehicle. Yellowstone is larger than the state of Delaware and it gets almost 5-million visitors a year. In Yellowstone, there are no Level 3 Chargers in the park, and only seven Level 2 chargers, mostly used by government vehicles. Totally unworkable for towing.
@@GSGS-1950 imagine there was a 10kwh PHEV F150
Low costs to run, etc etc, but you can still tow etc, get that good pickup off the line while towing etc.
Perfect for daily driver and towing. Actually surprised we got the lightning vs a phev there. (Albeit awesome)
I don't get the hatred, either.
With a small 33kWh battery in our i3REx, we did 24,000 miles last year on 25 gallons gas.
I pity those stuck at public charging on long trips when we just top the tank in less than a minute.
Sandy's teardown in 2015 convinced me.
@@FreekHoekstra I essentially own one. Via Motors VTRUX. Chevrolet Silverado 1500 with a 26kwh battery. Been an awesome vehicle so far.
Have also owned two Volts (2013 and 2017) Can not agree more with your post; looks like I wrote it.
Subaru has been doing this type of hybrid system since 2014 with the XV crosstrek hybrid .
My biggest question and hang up with PHEV is, what is the max speed on EV only? My commute is 10 miles at country highway speeds.
Usually it’s around 80mph before it kicks the ICE on.
Depends on the PHEV, but often not much different than a full EV. My Chevrolet Volt tops out at 98 mph.
I think the Cherokee here is limited to 80mph.
On the RAV4 it’s under 50 mph. My commute is all highway so I ruled it out as it would mostly be running as ICE and rarely as full EV.
@@davidr3246 that is definitely not true. I have a RAV4 Prime and it can go up to 85mph on pure electric.
@Paul C Ha That’s what the dealer explained to me in 2021. I took it as true and never researched it further. Makes me wonder if he was misinformed or had reason to want to steer me to other inventory 🤔
The clock is ticking with petro banned on new vehicles 2030-35. Gas cars will depreciate fast vs EV’s. People spending half their salary on something that will become worthless, depreciating liability. The future full self driving could make a vehicle an ASSET!
The clock isnt ticking at all!
FSD yeah sure hahaha!Do you already make 50k a year with your Tesla as a robitaxi since 2019 as Elon told you! Every car is something worth that dose the jiob to transport you from A to B!A 100 yesr old Ford T will do this just fine!
Lucid-Saudia buys out Jeep & makes a full e challenger to Cybertruck. You heard it here, first!
This thing will go down in history as a huge pink dinosaur. What a complicated waste of time.
Difference between ICE and EV car regarding manufacturing there comes RC EV toy cars past many decades but not ICE toy cars.
Pretty simple really.
Overall, you’ve done well. The quality of your presentation would be enhanced by not using ‘filler words.’ Most are “Um” but use of “Ah” is there too.
My 2015 Golf GTE seems a more sensibly put together PHEV.
Discount code doesn't seem to be working.
Scott and Munro, thank you for taking the time to build this content. You've helped me narrow my next vehicle purchase choice. ICE or BEV, definitely not PHEV. Yikes!
I thought that was a passive IR, thermal camera (no IR beam projected on the road). Can you guys please clarify?
A friend of mine’s sister has her’s at the dealer, because the battery overheated.
Scott - As I recall its been about a decade or so since it was announced that Chrysler was making Hybrid transmissions with electric motors inside them for other manufacturers (I don't remember specifically which ones) so the big question to me is why it took so long before they started putting them inside their own vehicles. Perhaps they had a clause in those contracts that prevented them from using the Hybrid tech for a set amount of time? A long time to be sitting on something that could have benefited them across the line on their pickups, vans, Jeeps, fleet vehicles, etc for all those years. Did I simply miss the release of other Chrysler Hybrid's using these transmissions?
Best!
More 4 cylinders and 6’s due emissions which is great
Pluginhybrids are just amazing!