Support what we do at www.kmtools.com *SALE on Full and Thin Kerf CMT Chrome Saw Blades* - use code KMT10CMT for extra 10% off kmtools.com/collections/cmt-saw-blades *Setting up your Jointer w/ 19,000 FPS Slow Mo* ua-cam.com/video/oyJHC6XxQx8/v-deo.html *5 Ways to Joint without a Jointer* ua-cam.com/video/jWzg4BzPrdk/v-deo.html *Tune Up Your Planer* ua-cam.com/video/QzRJfD7__W4/v-deo.html
Awesome book that gives you step-by-step photos ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxTNB_zFBSnTo_O1PqfVUwgi7ityw0JlKt and directions to make every day project. I can see myself making a few of these projects and giving them as housewarming and holiday gifts!
Despite milling my own lumber for everything I make, I still love simple videos like this that bring it back to basics. Because once you think you know how do something, it'll throw you a curve ball and if you forget your basics, you'll just give yourself a headache lol thanks for the vid JKM!
Great tips. The key is not only getting the boards square, parallel, and flat but keeping them that way. It’s awesome to provide tips to others to set them up for success and save money. 👍🏼
7:33 that top line should match the bottom one...and not be flipped "mirror image" like shown. Basically, your board will come out with the top following the contour of the bottom...whatever that may be. Hence the jointer being the 1st step.
Did you respond to the reply below saying you are one of the short lists winners. I got the same message and called but it said the owner of the google account wasn’t available.
@@rw7532 No, I did not. I've been getting a lot of those lately...last one said I won a DeWalt table saw! This video explains it VERY well: ua-cam.com/video/w3QxMFwQAfM/v-deo.html Beware.
One trick you can do on the “#3” step is flip the board over and plane #1 again once 1 and 3 are parallel. This is super handy if there’s imperfections on the #1 face. When I’m milling down salvaged pressure treated boards I don’t need to spend a bunch of time at the joiner removing perforations from the faces. I just need it flat, then once it’s parallel, I flip it over and remove the perforations with the planer. Same thing on the table saw with 2 and 4. Salvaged exterior wood is also super stable. Exposed to the sun, temperature, freezing it gets really “seasoned”. Traditional Japanese builders might leave wood at a site for 2 years before working with it. I can attest that almost any exterior project I’ve done where I took lumber directly from the yard to the job site will lose at least 1/8” of its width sometimes 1/4”.
I really like and respect your work, which is why I was surprised by your order of operation here, as well as omitting discussion of grain direction. Being aware of the direction that the grain runs in helps to avoid tear out. I know you run helical cutter heads on both J and P, so maybe that’s not a concern for you, but someone who’s unaware of milling probably isn’t tuned into the benefits of such cutters. Also, given an awareness of grain direction often requires that jointing and planing occur before squaring an edge. I’ve been woodworking for 30 years, but I still watch you religiously because there’s always more to know, and you’ll often provide tips that hadn’t occurred to me. Thanks for the work you do!
Exact method I use teaching my student’s, my problem is them remembering it. I have to explain it over and over to some. Other problem is they want to use the 16” jointer with the fence all the way over on a 3” x 18” piece of lumber. We have a 8” jointer. We have a small 13 planer for that use and they want to 20” 10HP planer. Students? Good video.
WTF?!? Is every woodworker moving shops? The Whisperer, Jason Bent and now JKM. I can't find even a two car garage to rent for anything less than an arm & a leg.
The interesting challenge of building with wood is that movement over time is inevitable, no matter how square and flat it is milled. The design and joinery (whether glue and screws or rabbets or dadoes or … ) counteract, incorporate or direct the movement. Makes those 200 year old pieces of furniture even more amazing.
Not only did I do the most comprehensive video on the subject BUT we also have a web based calculator we made that can calculate wood movement over time anywhere in the world. ua-cam.com/video/EOr06I9JoAU/v-deo.html
Love it! Unless it’s already there, I would love a video about wood movement. Everyone mentions it and I roughly understand but which species move more than others, etc When do you need to add a C-channel on a panel? So many questions!
Not only did I do the most comprehensive video on the subject BUT we also have a web based calculator we made that can calculate wood movement over time anywhere in the world. ua-cam.com/video/EOr06I9JoAU/v-deo.html
Good video as always. Maybe it would have been useful for beginners to talk about how grain orientation is important on the jointer and the planer. Cause that can really influence the surface quality. Cheers.
Yea, I agree 100%. To piggy back on your comment, his order of milling works for 80% of the species, but it should be done as: 1- face joint 1 side 2- face plan opposite side 3- joint edge 4- rip to width Doing it this way gives you freedom of grain direction when you go to joint the edge. Jointing the edge immediately after jointing the face forces you into 1 direction
You guys always do a hell of a job. I always pick up something new every time I watch your lessons. I consider your lessons way above just a video. THANKS
How is your planer (DW 735) with snipe? I have the same one and get a fair amount. I've leveled the infeed and outfeed wings and still get a bit. Any suggestions?
I've had two DW735 planers, and both had snipe issues. Sometimes I could run the board through at an angle and that seemed to help, but mostly I either made the board long enough so I could cut off the sniped ends, or spent time hand planing them or sanding them flat. I also tried using a piece of flat 3/4" plywood as a sled to feed my boards through, and this seemed to work fairly well.
@@katzmosestools Great video! I agree, the best way I've found to prevent snipe is a flat sled or table that spans the planer bed and attached tables as JB describes. Roller pressure can play a part when the board enters and exits the planer as well. As you have described, always take the time to do the necessary maintenance and cleaning. That will help reduce or even solve a lot of problems!
@@katzmosestools It's funny, I watched your video about tuning a planer a few years ago and tuned mine then. I re-watched it just now thinking to myself, "I swear I've seen this before." I have the same set up as you (DW735 with Shelix cutter and Wixey gauge on that same DeWalt rolling stand) which gives me hope as you say yours is able to plane without snipe. I gave it another try to level the bed this evening and found that my infeed and outfeed wings were slightly dished (1/8" - 1/16") like something heavy had been set on the middle. I removed them and tried to bend them straight by hand on the workbench and they're better than they were. It was too late at night for me to do a test piece to see if it helps my snipe. If that doesn't work, I think I may try getting rid of the stamped steel wings and replacing them with a piece of thick melamine. Kind of a hybrid solution that you mentioned in your video that Jay Bates did with his. Thanks for the comment, and I appreciate your time helping random people like me!
It cannot be stressed enough, for people just figuring this out, and those without a jointer, you will not get a good edge if you rip without a flat bottom face. If you have a twist, or cup, it will not leave a 90d edge. Even on a jointing jig, you need a pretty flat face.
@Jonathan Katz-Moses On the last step when you use the table saw to cut that last edge, what blade would you recommend if you had to rip it and leave and edge suitable for jointing.
Great video! Very informative! However, in my short experience, grain direction matters especially with wood that's highly prone to tear out! Would you be willing to do a follow-up video on the milling/grain direction, and why you should joint one face, then plane opposed face, before jointing the edge? Doing it that way gives options of grain direction on all 3 sides before ripping the 4th side on the tablesaw
Very good and comprehensive. Only things I see missing are grain direction conversation & the difference in wood stability by rift-sawn vs quarter vs plain.
Rough sawn is usually 1/16” to 1/8” under the marked thickness. At least the ones I have bought so far. After cutting lumber to thinner boards, they tend to move more. Made mistakes like that a few times now.
As always, thank you for your content! so true milling has been something I did not pay much attention to in the beginning until Jason from bourbon moth said once if you want the best glue-ups and joints you have to start milling the best way possible. Ever since I really take my time to mill all my lumber square before doing anything else. Needless to say, your video was super helpful with all the tips and tricks and the important reminder to mill everything perfectly square before we start building anything. Appreciate your time and effort in making this video!!!
Great video. I wish I had a jointer and planer. I buy what I can get from big box stores or a small local lumber shop, and they usually need some work but I have to make do.
Jonathan, thanks for the insight into milling lumber. Please do a video on selecting lumber. What to look out for beyond the cupping and twisting of a board. As example, I’m new to the woodworking ecosystem. I hadn’t thought much about the grain/knots etc until I got home and realized the importance of it for hand-planning.
I always appreciate your instructive techniques. Super nice to have a “shop mentor” at my fingertips. Cheers on your bigger n better building. Big dreams… keep humble.
Excellent video. I recently bought my first jointer, and am loving the simplicity of getting nice flat surfaces with it. I obtained a bunch of rough cut oak blocks and started running them through the jointer, and flattened them on all 4 sides and it worked perfectly. My question is, is there a reason why you don't just run boards through the jointer on all 4 sides? I don't see why it is necessary to need to use the planer. (at least if you're not trying to reach a specific width across multiple boards. I can see how the planer would be advantageous in that scenario) But if you're just straightening one single board, it seems like the jointer will do exactly what you need. (I also like using the jointer because it is 1000x quieter than the planer. Haha)
The jointer has no way to tell what the top of the board looks like. It can only make the bottom surface flat, and it has no way to mechanically constrain it to force that bottom surface to be parallel to the top. The planer uses the pressure of its feed rollers to mechanically force the bottom surface against a known reference plane, and then the cutter head is mechanically aligned to that plane and cuts a parallel surface. Does that help?
Just ordered about 80bd ft of 8/4 qtr sawn white oak. Going to be making a pedestal kitchen table. I am having the mill deliver it as s3s. Do you think someone can simply rip the other side of each board and then do the glue up? Just wondering if you’d trust it, especially at lengths of 8’ and longer. Don’t wanna screw this up lol. By far my biggest build yet. Thanks for the content.
Great content as always, Jonathan. I truly appreciate how in-depth you go in your videos. At my school, there's only one instructor with 25+ students, so I find myself learning more on UA-cam, haha. I have a question regarding the use of jointers. Recently, at school I was using one to flatten one side of a board with the cup facing down, picture an upside-down 'U' shape. I managed to get it to lay flat on the table saw, but there was a large hollow section in the middle where the jointer knives didn't hit. Should I continue using the jointer until everything is level? Thanks in advance!!!
Great video for a old man starting out…. I have a question….. If you buy an “S2S” board, is it necessary to joint the face 1st? As I only have a 6” jointer? Thanks.
I just bought a Dewalt 735 planer with the I feed and out feed tables coming in from Amazon in a few days, I’ve looked and look on UA-cam about setting those up. Do you set those stables up with the ends slightly higher than the planer bed or do you set the. Up so everything is level from in feed through the planer bed to the out feed? Thank you in advance for your answer.
Any suggestions on where a hobbyist can order small amount of rough sawn wood. Have internet but have not been successful. Thanks for all the incredible time and effort you put into making these videos they are all so helpful.
I’m confused. At 9:27 I see you running #1 over the jointer. Then at 9:43 I see you doing an edge on the jointer but with side 1 facing out. When you are running side 2 through the jointer shouldn’t side 1 (that you just made flat) be up against the jointer fence??
Quick question. I do not have either a jointer or planner at this time. Would I be able to mill down three sides using the planner and the remaining edge with my table saw? Thus the jointer being a smarter purchases as I'm new to the milling process.
Weird...my local lumber yard / warehouse sells most of their stuff in 5/4, which is what I usually get. And it tends to actually be 1-1/4" (ish) thick. Interesting. (Yes, they also have 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4.)
On a jointer, your outfeed bed must be dead even with the cutter edge. On a surface planer, same thing - the rear outfeed rollers and pressure bars need to be even with the cutter head, or your material will come up into the cutter once it is past the front rollers. If you can’t adjust the rollers/pressure bars, make all your material 6” longer. Or get a better planer.
@@stanschmenge1965 Yeah I figure that's at least some of the problem. But it's a Dewalt DW735 and I see UA-camrs getting better results with it all the time.
Two questions I've not had good answers for: why not go back to the jointer for face #4 instead of the tablesaw to reduce variability ? What do you do about grain direction when jointing and planing?
I could never get a perfectly parallel edge because there's no reference to the previously jointed edge. I assumed a flat face held against the jointer fence would provide that ref, but I could never get accurate results like you can with a table saw fence directly referencing the jointed edge. I always pay attention to grain direction when milling to avoid tear out problems, although I do get better results with carbide insert cutter heads rather than HSS blades regardless of the grain direction.
@@flyfishr64 the jointer will make the face flat, but won't make it parallel to the opposite face. You need a fence that is parallel to a blade to make both faces parallel, like a table saw. If your wood was the shape of a triangle, the jointer will make every face flat, but not parallel with the other side = a rectangle. Idk if that made sense tho cuz I'm kinda drunk
NO! At 8:29, if you flip the board like that, you will switch the grain direction, causing tear out; potentially massive. Flip the board long ways, enabling the grain to go in the same direction. Mark your jointed side in pencil with the grain direction. If it's pointing toward the roof of your shop, that's how you should feed it into the planer.
Nathan, don’t get me wrong, I still follow grain direction When I can, but with most of the new helical segmented heads it almost doesn’t matter anymore. I know I’m gonna to get flamed on this by people that don’t use them, but I’m amazed every time I pull a board off I put in backwards or some Birdseye maple or any other wood that has grain switches back-and-forth how clean it comes out.
@@MrWookie1981 no, he does not mention grain direction. He must be so used to using a helical cuter head that he doesn't need to worry about it. Must be nice.
@@toolchuck thanks for the response. From what I've seen, the helical heads come at a premium. I look forward to putting them on my planer, but that's around $1200 away. Given the rudimentary lesson of this video, I was amazed that he didn't cover grain direction. He must assume that everyone is using a helical cutter. Given that he didn't state that fact, I'd wager that there will be several very frustrated beginning woodworkers if they follow this video using a jointer and planer with knives.
@@sappy2123 You may already know this but make sure it is "Helical" and not "Spiral" cutter head. They are both spiral, but only one is helical. The helical shears as it cut because the cutters are at a slight angle and the cutters have a slight arc or curve on their face, not flat or straight like on a spiral. I say this for those reading this that may not be aware of the differences between the two. Some say there is only a slight difference in cut quality between them, but I'm here to tell you that there is. I mean I'm saying it on UA-cam, so it must be true, right? 🤷♂️ Seriously, I live 0.7 mi. from my local Rockler (so I'm there too often) and my friends that work there and have access to and use several planers/jointers and thickness planers with various cutter heads. And on occasion they'll come over to B.S. and/or use my machines to mill some wood. And every time they are amazed at the surface finish of my planer and thicknesser which has a helical cutter on it. It's a Felder so I'm partial but any quality helical cutter head will perform as good, well almost. 😜 All the Best, Chuck
I am a little confused why the first jointed side is facing out while jointing #2 instead of riding the fence. I would think you want the one side you know if good to be the one that the fence is referencing.
Them charging me for 4/4 when I only get 3/4 reminds me of what I’m seeing in the dimensional/framing lumber industry right now where a 2x6 is only 5 1/8- 5 3/8 “ instead of a true 5 1/2” like they’re supposed to be and advertised. We need to step up the QC and integrity America!!!
Where did measuring with 1/4 come from? why not just say how thick it is, for example where I live 18mm lumber is 18mm thick. The 1/4 ref doesn't make sense.
That’s the benefit of working in the metric system instead of this outdated imperial system. The funny part is, there imperial system is based on the metric system. There currency is metric, meaning usa is using that on a daily basis without them having any problem using that.
Hey @Jonathan Katz-Moses, at 7:50 when you reference what happens if you plane the board right away. It will make the opposing face side, parallel to the bottom face, but this means it will just copy the face on the bottom no ? In your example you mirrored the bottom and top faces but actually the bottom and top face should follow the same line if my understanding is correct :) Only beginner in woodworking so correct me if i'm wrong.
"it's a pretty boring process same thing every single time." I'm literally going for an interview at a professional sawmill next week 😂 I love that process, because it's never really exactly the same as no two trees are the same, so you have to adapt your knowledge and process with what you have. Also deeply satisfying milling lumber.
All the limber I get in Thailand is High moisture, 35%. I start milling it at 15-20% after air drying. I do cut the wood length into lengths close to final dimensions as I start the air drying
Second comment, apologies. In regards to grain direction, the jointer is "down and out," and the planer is "up and in." Jonathan, thank you for all you do, I've learned a great deal from your channel!
A shop where the humidity levels are stable is preferred as well. Which means not too dry and not too wet. Most furniture lives in climate controlled environments so for proper RH that should be one's gauge, however, accounting for more wood movement than that is still best practice. For example, if your shop is on the drier side during most projects then that's the most amount of contraction one is likely to see in the project and so accounting for expansion is the necessary element etc. Personally, I would find it too frustrating to work in a shop where the humidity levels swung a lot between seasons.
I have a question, why can't you use the jointer for both sides of the face to make them flat? Also running both sides of the edges? If you square up a flat side and edges side, why can't you do the same for the other 2 sides with just the jointer? I'm new to woodworking so trying to learn.
Really fantastic tips, Jonathan! Thanks a lot! 😃 I need to get over my fear and start messing with my thicknesser/planer. 😬 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Hi, another great explanation video, thanks. Do you have any advice for making furniture that might end up in an area with a significant change in environment (humidity, temp etc).
I'm working on Walnut dining table and I've been worried about board movement after milling. Thant is until I watched your video, Thanks for the info. I think it will really help.
I see Tamar from 3x3 using a sled as a substitute for a jointer. Will I get the same result this way? Or this is only in the case my board is "somehow" flat and not totally twisted?
Johathan, great video! One thing that always gets me is the term "Jointer". I'm not sure when it happened, but I believe it was a marketing thing here in the U.S. a while back that was/is used to distinguish between a "Planer" and a "Thickness Planer" for the new or beginner woodworker. In the rest of the world a “jointer” is called a planer, and a “planer” is called a thicknesser or thickness planer because, it is in fact, a planer and a thickness planer. Somehow the nomenclature got separated from the actual function of the machines here. It is only here in the US and Canada, North America in general, that a planer is called a “Jointer” and a thickness planer is called a “planer”? This is very confusing to many that are new to woodworking. Jointing is typically planing the side edge of a board to an already planed face of a board. Jointing can be done in several ways using different tools, one way is to use a fence as an attachment on a planer (Jointer). Other ways to “Joint” are with a table saw, a router table, or a track saw, etc. I have had to explain this to many people new to woodworking at my local woodworking store that are confused as to the use and function of a “jointer” and “planer”. I don’t care what they are called perse, I have just found it simpler to explain their actual functions separate from their names which has led to many A-ha moments with the people I’m explaining this to. I know you know this, but explaining this, IMHO, will help people understand what the hell a "Jointer" is, which is actually a planer, that you can joint on. I have found this to be a confusing issue with some new to the sport, and once it is cleared up, we move on to what "Joinery" is. 😎 All the best, Chuck
Good morning Sir, great video as always. Just wondering what digital readout you have are your planer? I have the same planer and the gauge is not accurate at all. Thanks for the information and another great video.
Two things are accomplished with milling lumber: 1 making all the sides flat and 2 making all the sides parallel to their opposite face. A jointer will make all the sides flat but not necessarily parallel or square.
Loved the video. It is insane that you didn’t mention snipe though. It’s like a dirty secret nobody wants to acknowledge. Do you just cut the ends off? Curious what professionals do about it, if anything.
@@katzmosestools this one ua-cam.com/video/qQvaoHN39Qg/v-deo.html Just watched it. He says his melamine add ons are not for counteracting snipe. And in his final thoughts about the planer (looks like the same as yours) he actually recommends against buying it due to the snipe it produces! Are you really living the snipe-free life? I thought it was just a fact of life for every woodworker. I’ll often use short sacrificial boards of pine before and after to avoid snipe. But it’s a pain.
I sometimes skip the table saw and use the planer for the last two faces depending on the size of the board. Square(ish) or really long boards seem to be easier for me with the planer.
Is there a benefit to using the table saw at step 3 before the planer? That is less material your planer needs to take off. Or is that problematic for some reason?
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*SALE on Full and Thin Kerf CMT Chrome Saw Blades* - use code KMT10CMT for extra 10% off kmtools.com/collections/cmt-saw-blades
*Setting up your Jointer w/ 19,000 FPS Slow Mo* ua-cam.com/video/oyJHC6XxQx8/v-deo.html
*5 Ways to Joint without a Jointer* ua-cam.com/video/jWzg4BzPrdk/v-deo.html
*Tune Up Your Planer* ua-cam.com/video/QzRJfD7__W4/v-deo.html
Awesome book that gives you step-by-step photos ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxTNB_zFBSnTo_O1PqfVUwgi7ityw0JlKt and directions to make every day project. I can see myself making a few of these projects and giving them as housewarming and holiday gifts!
The “Jesus Fish” thing is actually the top loop of the letter “f” in cursive. The letter “f” is used for the word “face”.
Actually, the Jesus fish is a symbol of fertility. It was displayed ‘tail up’ and symbolic of the female reproductive organ.
Had you not said that, I’d have been convinced it was a lowercase cursive “L” for “from a Log” 😂
Despite milling my own lumber for everything I make, I still love simple videos like this that bring it back to basics. Because once you think you know how do something, it'll throw you a curve ball and if you forget your basics, you'll just give yourself a headache lol thanks for the vid JKM!
Thanks my friend!
Great tips. The key is not only getting the boards square, parallel, and flat but keeping them that way. It’s awesome to provide tips to others to set them up for success and save money. 👍🏼
In Australia S4S is called DAR - Dressed All Round
Probably the most comprehensive yet concise video I've seen on milling.
Nice! Thank you!
7:33 that top line should match the bottom one...and not be flipped "mirror image" like shown. Basically, your board will come out with the top following the contour of the bottom...whatever that may be. Hence the jointer being the 1st step.
You are correct.
Yep. My mistake
Thanks. That drawing was so confusing.
Did you respond to the reply below saying you are one of the short lists winners. I got the same message and called but it said the owner of the google account wasn’t available.
@@rw7532 No, I did not. I've been getting a lot of those lately...last one said I won a DeWalt table saw!
This video explains it VERY well: ua-cam.com/video/w3QxMFwQAfM/v-deo.html
Beware.
One trick you can do on the “#3” step is flip the board over and plane #1 again once 1 and 3 are parallel. This is super handy if there’s imperfections on the #1 face. When I’m milling down salvaged pressure treated boards I don’t need to spend a bunch of time at the joiner removing perforations from the faces. I just need it flat, then once it’s parallel, I flip it over and remove the perforations with the planer. Same thing on the table saw with 2 and 4.
Salvaged exterior wood is also super stable. Exposed to the sun, temperature, freezing it gets really “seasoned”. Traditional Japanese builders might leave wood at a site for 2 years before working with it. I can attest that almost any exterior project I’ve done where I took lumber directly from the yard to the job site will lose at least 1/8” of its width sometimes 1/4”.
Great videos, it was a little confusing around the 7:32 with the parallel line drawing. Did you want those sharpie lines parallel to each other maybe?
Yeah, they were mirrored, not parallel.
Second that... Drawing was incorrect.
Instead of using the table saw to cut side #4, why wouldn’t you run that side through the planer since it would come out parallel to side #2?
I really like and respect your work, which is why I was surprised by your order of operation here, as well as omitting discussion of grain direction. Being aware of the direction that the grain runs in helps to avoid tear out. I know you run helical cutter heads on both J and P, so maybe that’s not a concern for you, but someone who’s unaware of milling probably isn’t tuned into the benefits of such cutters. Also, given an awareness of grain direction often requires that jointing and planing occur before squaring an edge.
I’ve been woodworking for 30 years, but I still watch you religiously because there’s always more to know, and you’ll often provide tips that hadn’t occurred to me. Thanks for the work you do!
Exact method I use teaching my student’s, my problem is them remembering it. I have to explain it over and over to some. Other problem is they want to use the 16” jointer with the fence all the way over on a 3” x 18” piece of lumber. We have a 8” jointer. We have a small 13 planer for that use and they want to 20” 10HP planer. Students?
Good video.
WTF?!? Is every woodworker moving shops? The Whisperer, Jason Bent and now JKM. I can't find even a two car garage to rent for anything less than an arm & a leg.
You’re right, real estate is at a premium and selection is slim. Moving into a bigger shop and growing typically provides more and better content. 👍🏼
Our new shop is 15,793 Sqft. Going to be nuts. K-M Tools is growing like a weed.
@@katzmosestools Congrats, that’s a great problem to have.
@@katzmosestools Deservedly so. Happy for your success.
The interesting challenge of building with wood is that movement over time is inevitable, no matter how square and flat it is milled. The design and joinery (whether glue and screws or rabbets or dadoes or … ) counteract, incorporate or direct the movement. Makes those 200 year old pieces of furniture even more amazing.
Not only did I do the most comprehensive video on the subject BUT we also have a web based calculator we made that can calculate wood movement over time anywhere in the world. ua-cam.com/video/EOr06I9JoAU/v-deo.html
Love it! Unless it’s already there, I would love a video about wood movement. Everyone mentions it and I roughly understand but which species move more than others, etc
When do you need to add a C-channel on a panel? So many questions!
Not only did I do the most comprehensive video on the subject BUT we also have a web based calculator we made that can calculate wood movement over time anywhere in the world. ua-cam.com/video/EOr06I9JoAU/v-deo.html
Good video as always.
Maybe it would have been useful for beginners to talk about how grain orientation is important on the jointer and the planer. Cause that can really influence the surface quality.
Cheers.
Yea, I agree 100%. To piggy back on your comment, his order of milling works for 80% of the species, but it should be done as:
1- face joint 1 side
2- face plan opposite side
3- joint edge
4- rip to width
Doing it this way gives you freedom of grain direction when you go to joint the edge. Jointing the edge immediately after jointing the face forces you into 1 direction
Jonathan, I always come away after watching your videos with lots that I didn’t know or had forgotten. Thank you for these great videos. 😊
You guys always do a hell of a job. I always pick up something new every time I watch your lessons. I consider your lessons way above just a video. THANKS
How is your planer (DW 735) with snipe? I have the same one and get a fair amount. I've leveled the infeed and outfeed wings and still get a bit. Any suggestions?
I've had two DW735 planers, and both had snipe issues. Sometimes I could run the board through at an angle and that seemed to help, but mostly I either made the board long enough so I could cut off the sniped ends, or spent time hand planing them or sanding them flat.
I also tried using a piece of flat 3/4" plywood as a sled to feed my boards through, and this seemed to work fairly well.
I get no snipe. Watch the planer tune up video I have in the pinned comment
@@katzmosestools Great video! I agree, the best way I've found to prevent snipe is a flat sled or table that spans the planer bed and attached tables as JB describes. Roller pressure can play a part when the board enters and exits the planer as well. As you have described, always take the time to do the necessary maintenance and cleaning. That will help reduce or even solve a lot of problems!
@@katzmosestools It's funny, I watched your video about tuning a planer a few years ago and tuned mine then. I re-watched it just now thinking to myself, "I swear I've seen this before."
I have the same set up as you (DW735 with Shelix cutter and Wixey gauge on that same DeWalt rolling stand) which gives me hope as you say yours is able to plane without snipe.
I gave it another try to level the bed this evening and found that my infeed and outfeed wings were slightly dished (1/8" - 1/16") like something heavy had been set on the middle.
I removed them and tried to bend them straight by hand on the workbench and they're better than they were. It was too late at night for me to do a test piece to see if it helps my snipe.
If that doesn't work, I think I may try getting rid of the stamped steel wings and replacing them with a piece of thick melamine. Kind of a hybrid solution that you mentioned in your video that Jay Bates did with his.
Thanks for the comment, and I appreciate your time helping random people like me!
It cannot be stressed enough, for people just figuring this out, and those without a jointer, you will not get a good edge if you rip without a flat bottom face. If you have a twist, or cup, it will not leave a 90d edge. Even on a jointing jig, you need a pretty flat face.
Exactly. Some of this is just so simple that many of us over-think the issue.
Also I found an oak supplier that had rough cut oak for nearly the same price as pine from the big box store... talk about an upgrade
Very informative, as always! Thx Jonathan
Agreed 💯 👍🏼
@Jonathan Katz-Moses On the last step when you use the table saw to cut that last edge, what blade would you recommend if you had to rip it and leave and edge suitable for jointing.
The rip blades we sell are amazing. For more in watch the saw blade video I did about 6 videos ago. Cheers
Great video! Very informative! However, in my short experience, grain direction matters especially with wood that's highly prone to tear out!
Would you be willing to do a follow-up video on the milling/grain direction, and why you should joint one face, then plane opposed face, before jointing the edge? Doing it that way gives options of grain direction on all 3 sides before ripping the 4th side on the tablesaw
Very good and comprehensive. Only things I see missing are grain direction conversation & the difference in wood stability by rift-sawn vs quarter vs plain.
Rough sawn is usually 1/16” to 1/8” under the marked thickness. At least the ones I have bought so far. After cutting lumber to thinner boards, they tend to move more. Made mistakes like that a few times now.
Great video Jonathan, thanks. After I watch it a couple more times I'll feel like I got most of it...
As always, thank you for your content! so true milling has been something I did not pay much attention to in the beginning until Jason from bourbon moth said once if you want the best glue-ups and joints you have to start milling the best way possible. Ever since I really take my time to mill all my lumber square before doing anything else. Needless to say, your video was super helpful with all the tips and tricks and the important reminder to mill everything perfectly square before we start building anything. Appreciate your time and effort in making this video!!!
Great video. I wish I had a jointer and planer. I buy what I can get from big box stores or a small local lumber shop, and they usually need some work but I have to make do.
What’s the fine line between clamping milled boards down but also trying to have good air flow all around it? 🤔🤔
07:33 That drawing doesn't represent parallel. That drawing is mirrored.
Yep. My mistake
Jonathan, thanks for the insight into milling lumber. Please do a video on selecting lumber. What to look out for beyond the cupping and twisting of a board. As example, I’m new to the woodworking ecosystem. I hadn’t thought much about the grain/knots etc until I got home and realized the importance of it for hand-planning.
I prefer not to run #2 through my table saw at all. That makes for too much clean up. Just my personal preference.
Love your videos so much, would love to meet you someday! You are such an inspiration to so many people!
I always appreciate your instructive techniques. Super nice to have a “shop mentor” at my fingertips. Cheers on your bigger n better building. Big dreams… keep humble.
Thank you my friend!
Excellent video. I recently bought my first jointer, and am loving the simplicity of getting nice flat surfaces with it. I obtained a bunch of rough cut oak blocks and started running them through the jointer, and flattened them on all 4 sides and it worked perfectly. My question is, is there a reason why you don't just run boards through the jointer on all 4 sides? I don't see why it is necessary to need to use the planer. (at least if you're not trying to reach a specific width across multiple boards. I can see how the planer would be advantageous in that scenario) But if you're just straightening one single board, it seems like the jointer will do exactly what you need. (I also like using the jointer because it is 1000x quieter than the planer. Haha)
The jointer has no way to tell what the top of the board looks like. It can only make the bottom surface flat, and it has no way to mechanically constrain it to force that bottom surface to be parallel to the top. The planer uses the pressure of its feed rollers to mechanically force the bottom surface against a known reference plane, and then the cutter head is mechanically aligned to that plane and cuts a parallel surface. Does that help?
FYI your chapter titles are from your chisel video. But great video!
fixed. Thank you
Just ordered about 80bd ft of 8/4 qtr sawn white oak. Going to be making a pedestal kitchen table. I am having the mill deliver it as s3s.
Do you think someone can simply rip the other side of each board and then do the glue up? Just wondering if you’d trust it, especially at lengths of 8’ and longer. Don’t wanna screw this up lol. By far my biggest build yet. Thanks for the content.
I say exactly that in this video. Can't trust it
Great content as always, Jonathan. I truly appreciate how in-depth you go in your videos. At my school, there's only one instructor with 25+ students, so I find myself learning more on UA-cam, haha.
I have a question regarding the use of jointers. Recently, at school I was using one to flatten one side of a board with the cup facing down, picture an upside-down 'U' shape. I managed to get it to lay flat on the table saw, but there was a large hollow section in the middle where the jointer knives didn't hit. Should I continue using the jointer until everything is level? Thanks in advance!!!
Very informative and wonderful advice/tips. Another example of 2 of the many reasons I follow you and look forward to your videos. Great job 👍👍!!!
Great video for a old man starting out…. I have a question…..
If you buy an “S2S” board, is it necessary to joint the face 1st? As I only have a 6” jointer? Thanks.
I just bought a Dewalt 735 planer with the I feed and out feed tables coming in from Amazon in a few days, I’ve looked and look on UA-cam about setting those up. Do you set those stables up with the ends slightly higher than the planer bed or do you set the. Up so everything is level from in feed through the planer bed to the out feed? Thank you in advance for your answer.
Thanks Jonathan it’s always a pleasure to watch your content
Any suggestions on where a hobbyist can order small amount of rough sawn wood. Have internet but have not been successful. Thanks for all the incredible time and effort you put into making these videos they are all so helpful.
Google hardwood dealers in my area. Sometimes you have to drive a bit but they're around. I have a good one 40 miles south or 100 miles north of me
I’m confused. At 9:27 I see you running #1 over the jointer. Then at 9:43 I see you doing an edge on the jointer but with side 1 facing out. When you are running side 2 through the jointer shouldn’t side 1 (that you just made flat) be up against the jointer fence??
Any storage tips for keeping thin material flat before finishing? Such as pizza peels or cheese boards?
Quick question. I do not have either a jointer or planner at this time. Would I be able to mill down three sides using the planner and the remaining edge with my table saw? Thus the jointer being a smarter purchases as I'm new to the milling process.
So if you’re making sash windows you have to plane 8/4 to 1 3/8”, that’s a lot of sawdust.
How come you cut with the table saw for the last edge instead of running it through the jointer again(3 times) ?? Thanks 😊
Weird...my local lumber yard / warehouse sells most of their stuff in 5/4, which is what I usually get. And it tends to actually be 1-1/4" (ish) thick. Interesting. (Yes, they also have 4/4, 6/4, and 8/4.)
They probably say it's 5/4 but factor the extra 1/4" into their BF price. Some of them do that.
@@katzmosestools - that would make sense...!
I wish you talked about planer snipe! It’s the single biggest problem I have when milling wood at home.
On a jointer, your outfeed bed must be dead even with the cutter edge. On a surface planer, same thing - the rear outfeed rollers and pressure bars need to be even with the cutter head, or your material will come up into the cutter once it is past the front rollers. If you can’t adjust the rollers/pressure bars, make all your material 6” longer. Or get a better planer.
@@stanschmenge1965 All good advice, and I’ve done my best, but I still have issues. Maybe I just need more practice.
@@stanschmenge1965 it's a problem for me too, i've ended up sending sacrifical wood a little ahead and to the side of what i want to plane/thickness.
@@jcarlin I guarantee it’s not you, it’s your planer. “You can’t make chicken salad with chicken sh*t” as the old saying goes.
@@stanschmenge1965 Yeah I figure that's at least some of the problem. But it's a Dewalt DW735 and I see UA-camrs getting better results with it all the time.
"jesus fish lookin' thing" so good.
Amen, friend.
Two questions I've not had good answers for: why not go back to the jointer for face #4 instead of the tablesaw to reduce variability ? What do you do about grain direction when jointing and planing?
I could never get a perfectly parallel edge because there's no reference to the previously jointed edge. I assumed a flat face held against the jointer fence would provide that ref, but I could never get accurate results like you can with a table saw fence directly referencing the jointed edge.
I always pay attention to grain direction when milling to avoid tear out problems, although I do get better results with carbide insert cutter heads rather than HSS blades regardless of the grain direction.
I’m a retired furniture maker from Europe. We always planned #4 parallel to side #2 with the planer, not with a tablesaw.
Taking it back to the jointer would make it flat, but not parallel to the opposite face. With the table saw, the fence is parallel to the blade.
@@danielulrich3314 is there not enough registration of the flat & square edge against the fence?
@@flyfishr64 the jointer will make the face flat, but won't make it parallel to the opposite face. You need a fence that is parallel to a blade to make both faces parallel, like a table saw.
If your wood was the shape of a triangle, the jointer will make every face flat, but not parallel with the other side = a rectangle. Idk if that made sense tho cuz I'm kinda drunk
Good thing the big box stores don’t sell it by the pound. Some of those pine 2x boards are water saturated.
@7:38 The drawing on the example piece isn't right, the top line should be the same as the bottom one. (not mirrored like those are) ;)
Always enjoy your vids. Regarding planing the #2 side, the #1 planed side should have been against the fence to ensure a 90 degree angle
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Looks like it wasn’t milled properly.
It was my editor used the wrong clip
Have to say that milling up lumber is the worst part of woodworking for me 😅
"I'm showing you back to front just to be confusing for no reason"
Why did you run side 4 through the tablesaw instead of your planer?
Why wouldn’t you run the jointer on both short edges instead of using the table saw?
Sorry , In Australia do not use this 1/4 system , we have many more sizes
NO! At 8:29, if you flip the board like that, you will switch the grain direction, causing tear out; potentially massive. Flip the board long ways, enabling the grain to go in the same direction.
Mark your jointed side in pencil with the grain direction. If it's pointing toward the roof of your shop, that's how you should feed it into the planer.
Did he mention anything about grain direction? I didn't catch it if he did. Seems like a pretty important topic to miss.
Nathan, don’t get me wrong, I still follow grain direction When I can, but with most of the new helical segmented heads it almost doesn’t matter anymore. I know I’m gonna to get flamed on this by people that don’t use them, but I’m amazed every time I pull a board off I put in backwards or some Birdseye maple or any other wood that has grain switches back-and-forth how clean it comes out.
@@MrWookie1981 no, he does not mention grain direction. He must be so used to using a helical cuter head that he doesn't need to worry about it. Must be nice.
@@toolchuck thanks for the response. From what I've seen, the helical heads come at a premium. I look forward to putting them on my planer, but that's around $1200 away.
Given the rudimentary lesson of this video, I was amazed that he didn't cover grain direction. He must assume that everyone is using a helical cutter. Given that he didn't state that fact, I'd wager that there will be several very frustrated beginning woodworkers if they follow this video using a jointer and planer with knives.
@@sappy2123 You may already know this but make sure it is "Helical" and not "Spiral" cutter head. They are both spiral, but only one is helical. The helical shears as it cut because the cutters are at a slight angle and the cutters have a slight arc or curve on their face, not flat or straight like on a spiral. I say this for those reading this that may not be aware of the differences between the two. Some say there is only a slight difference in cut quality between them, but I'm here to tell you that there is. I mean I'm saying it on UA-cam, so it must be true, right? 🤷♂️
Seriously, I live 0.7 mi. from my local Rockler (so I'm there too often) and my friends that work there and have access to and use several planers/jointers and thickness planers with various cutter heads. And on occasion they'll come over to B.S. and/or use my machines to mill some wood. And every time they are amazed at the surface finish of my planer and thicknesser which has a helical cutter on it. It's a Felder so I'm partial but any quality helical cutter head will perform as good, well almost. 😜
All the Best, Chuck
Doesn't the marker soak into the grain, or is this a special wood marker?
I am a little confused why the first jointed side is facing out while jointing #2 instead of riding the fence. I would think you want the one side you know if good to be the one that the fence is referencing.
I say "This would normally be facing the fence but for the purposes of instruction I'm leaving it facing out so you can read it"
@@katzmosestools I completely missed that, so sorry. ADHD for the win as always!
So when you did it for real #1 side would be against the fence! Correct?
The first side doesn’t go against the fence when jointing the second side ?
Them charging me for 4/4 when I only get 3/4 reminds me of what I’m seeing in the dimensional/framing lumber industry right now where a 2x6 is only 5 1/8- 5 3/8 “ instead of a true 5 1/2” like they’re supposed to be and advertised. We need to step up the QC and integrity America!!!
Where did measuring with 1/4 come from? why not just say how thick it is, for example where I live 18mm lumber is 18mm thick. The 1/4 ref doesn't make sense.
That’s the benefit of working in the metric system instead of this outdated imperial system. The funny part is, there imperial system is based on the metric system. There currency is metric, meaning usa is using that on a daily basis without them having any problem using that.
Hey Johnathan, question… I have an 8” jointer but wanting to square off 12x2 board. What would be your process to achieve the same results?
Hey @Jonathan Katz-Moses, at 7:50 when you reference what happens if you plane the board right away.
It will make the opposing face side, parallel to the bottom face, but this means it will just copy the face on the bottom no ?
In your example you mirrored the bottom and top faces but actually the bottom and top face should follow the same line if my understanding is correct :)
Only beginner in woodworking so correct me if i'm wrong.
"it's a pretty boring process same thing every single time."
I'm literally going for an interview at a professional sawmill next week 😂 I love that process, because it's never really exactly the same as no two trees are the same, so you have to adapt your knowledge and process with what you have. Also deeply satisfying milling lumber.
So disappointed that you didn't include any innuendo in this one :/
Great topic.
All the limber I get in Thailand is High moisture, 35%. I start milling it at 15-20% after air drying. I do cut the wood length into lengths close to final dimensions as I start the air drying
Excellent video, but I don’t have a table saw. Alternate suggestions for side #4? Track saw, router table.
Second comment, apologies. In regards to grain direction, the jointer is "down and out," and the planer is "up and in."
Jonathan, thank you for all you do, I've learned a great deal from your channel!
A shop where the humidity levels are stable is preferred as well. Which means not too dry and not too wet. Most furniture lives in climate controlled environments so for proper RH that should be one's gauge, however, accounting for more wood movement than that is still best practice. For example, if your shop is on the drier side during most projects then that's the most amount of contraction one is likely to see in the project and so accounting for expansion is the necessary element etc. Personally, I would find it too frustrating to work in a shop where the humidity levels swung a lot between seasons.
I have a question, why can't you use the jointer for both sides of the face to make them flat? Also running both sides of the edges? If you square up a flat side and edges side, why can't you do the same for the other 2 sides with just the jointer? I'm new to woodworking so trying to learn.
I'm guessing this is spam, and not really from this channel
"Nothing is more frustrating..."? Clearly you're not married!
I also wonder why simps do it to themselves and sign the contract
Really fantastic tips, Jonathan! Thanks a lot! 😃
I need to get over my fear and start messing with my thicknesser/planer. 😬
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Hi, another great explanation video, thanks. Do you have any advice for making furniture that might end up in an area with a significant change in environment (humidity, temp etc).
Check out my video called "is wood movement a myth" we even created a calculator that can calculate exact wood movement anywhere in the world
@@katzmosestools hi, much appreciated, cheers.
Jon, I've not heard of clamping after milling before. Seems like it would be the opposite of stickering?
Imperial measure can be a pain sometimes...
I'm working on Walnut dining table and I've been worried about board movement after milling. Thant is until I watched your video, Thanks for the info. I think it will really help.
I see Tamar from 3x3 using a sled as a substitute for a jointer. Will I get the same result this way? Or this is only in the case my board is "somehow" flat and not totally twisted?
There's a great video linked in the pinned comment and description called 5 ways to joint a board without a jointer
Johathan, great video! One thing that always gets me is the term "Jointer". I'm not sure when it happened, but I believe it was a marketing thing here in the U.S. a while back that was/is used to distinguish between a "Planer" and a "Thickness Planer" for the new or beginner woodworker.
In the rest of the world a “jointer” is called a planer, and a “planer” is called a thicknesser or thickness planer because, it is in fact, a planer and a thickness planer.
Somehow the nomenclature got separated from the actual function of the machines here.
It is only here in the US and Canada, North America in general, that a planer is called a “Jointer” and a thickness planer is called a “planer”? This is very confusing to many that are new to woodworking.
Jointing is typically planing the side edge of a board to an already planed face of a board. Jointing can be done in several ways using different tools, one way is to use a fence as an attachment on a planer (Jointer). Other ways to “Joint” are with a table saw, a router table, or a track saw, etc. I have had to explain this to many people new to woodworking at my local woodworking store that are confused as to the use and function of a “jointer” and “planer”. I don’t care what they are called perse, I have just found it simpler to explain their actual functions separate from their names which has led to many A-ha moments with the people I’m explaining this to.
I know you know this, but explaining this, IMHO, will help people understand what the hell a "Jointer" is, which is actually a planer, that you can joint on. I have found this to be a confusing issue with some new to the sport, and once it is cleared up, we move on to what "Joinery" is. 😎 All the best, Chuck
Good morning Sir, great video as always. Just wondering what digital readout you have are your planer? I have the same planer and the gauge is not accurate at all. Thanks for the information and another great video.
Wixey I think
@@katzmosestools Thank you very much for the information!
How do you know how much to cut off with the table saw?
How do you get the bow out of long boards? My jointer never takes the bow out.
You should watch my jointer videos. You’re probably putting way too much pressure. Cheers
I have a sincere question. Why can you not do side number four back at the joiner? Why do you have to use the tablesaw for the final side?
A jointer cannot make a face parallel to its opposite face, you need the planer and table saw for that
If you're already at the jointer, why couldn't you just mill all 4 sides that way (on the jointer)?
They may not be parallel
Something I don't get. If we use a jointer first, besides taking a bit more off using the planer, why not use the jointer on all 4 sides?
Two things are accomplished with milling lumber: 1 making all the sides flat and 2 making all the sides parallel to their opposite face. A jointer will make all the sides flat but not necessarily parallel or square.
This explains quite a bit of frustration I have had...thank you kindly for this vid!
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Awesome video!
Good stuff
Loved the video. It is insane that you didn’t mention snipe though. It’s like a dirty secret nobody wants to acknowledge. Do you just cut the ends off? Curious what professionals do about it, if anything.
Cut the ends off if you get it. Watch the video about planer tuneup in the description. I rarely if ever get it.
@@katzmosestools this one ua-cam.com/video/qQvaoHN39Qg/v-deo.html Just watched it. He says his melamine add ons are not for counteracting snipe. And in his final thoughts about the planer (looks like the same as yours) he actually recommends against buying it due to the snipe it produces! Are you really living the snipe-free life? I thought it was just a fact of life for every woodworker. I’ll often use short sacrificial boards of pine before and after to avoid snipe. But it’s a pain.
How mich time between steps please?
I sometimes skip the table saw and use the planer for the last two faces depending on the size of the board. Square(ish) or really long boards seem to be easier for me with the planer.
Is there a benefit to using the table saw at step 3 before the planer? That is less material your planer needs to take off. Or is that problematic for some reason?