My biggest pain is that Stella's potential was wasted to push a VERY TOXIC SHIP. Stolliz is a perfect example of a power imbalance between two parties. Stolas has control over Blitz, through the status and Grimoire Blitz needs. Stolas uses this to gain sexual advantage from Blitz. If Blitz were a woman, everyone would be mad at the show's creators for romanticizing the molestation, but since they're both men, this is, for the most part, cute and romantic. The worst thing about this ship is that it doesn't make sense. Blitz hates Stolas in earlier episodes and suddenly he loves him? Did I miss a few episodes? Stella could have been a well-written character, but the creators decided to throw her potential out the window of a toxic ship.
i think writing a "sad backstory" for Stella would be unnecessary but focus her character on being obsessed with social opinion would be great, for example on the party she could act like stolas and her have the best relationship in hell and Stella would prevent stolas from telling the truth. on the balcony scene when stolas tells her he wants a divorce she could with fear and anger say "no you can't! " because it'd ruin her reputation. that way after divorce she could be even more into killing stolas, because of ruining her reputation and because she could be like "oh that night was so awful, i was bearly able to save Octavia" and that way her reputation would be back on track
Yeah, I wish they had done that instead! Narcissists like Stella (or at least I THINK they tried to make her one) will try their best to appear good in the public eye. If their abuser pushes back and breaks things off they will play victim and do their best to keep a good reputation around other people. Her bragging about her family while Stolas is standing there, knowing the truth about how things really were would have been more impactful. If they wanted to tackle abuse they have done a very poor job so far.
Yeah I can so see Stella as like the privileged villain. Narcissistic, thinks everything should be handed to her, and sees people as things. So kinda like Azula from Avatar.
@@Featheryfaith7To be honest we don't have much conformation about if she has any trama or a personality disorder, so I will not claim that Stella is 100% a narcissit unless Viv confirms it to be so. It's more of a headcanon based on how she behaves so far, but it might not be the intention. This is all just speculation from me. About "She's not a narcissist. She had trauma." I will have to point out that those two things are not mutually exlusive. They go more hand-in-hand than some people notice. Whenever people have had a tramatic childhood, there are many different ways it can mold a person growing up, and that trama can factor into someone becoming a narcissisist and abuser. Source: My narcissitic dad was abused by his father at an early age. He then went onto abuse me, my siblings, and my mother untill we escaped him. Trama and abuse is a domino effect in a way.
Atop her lackluster motivations, she also has nothing compared to Stolas. Powerful magic? No. There is no depiction in the show that Stella has any magical abilities to speak of. Royal connections? Probably, but it seems that Stella comes from a lessser family than Stolas considering her lack of magical abilities, and that the ARS Goetia are the big royal family. Whatever connections she has, cannot be greater than Stolas’s own, if he chooses to use them. Intellegence? Again, we aren’t given anything that says that Stella is in anyway more intelligent than Stolas, besides their standard royal education. Charisma? No. Is she manipulative? No. She just has the mean green money machine. Is she scary? Not to us, and as of s2 e2 it seems that Stolas ain’t spooked by her either. She has nothing that makes the audience like when she’s on screen besides the generic giant, sexy woman trope, and voice actress. She’s just a sad washed up, royal lady with nothing left to give us. And you wanna know how Helluva plans to avoid this issue? Andre! Because they’ll just put a MAN in the villain’s chair, and leave her to literally froth at the mouth about Stolas, and nothing else every SINGLE time she is on screen. Just like they always have. Every single sentence she’s spoken has been about Stolas, to Stolas, or around Stolas. She’s just like Mille. Only in place to revolve around her (ex) husband, and to build sympathy for Stolas. Such a waste.
OMG, this actually made me realize that Andre was really just a way to not have Stella do much. Even with sneak peeks of the newer episodes it's going to be Andre vs Stolas now. Which is just... sad. Viv and her team aren't really good with female characters
It is such a a shame! Stella, like the other ladies in the show, have so much potential to be complex and interesting characters, that are capable of showing more than one type of emotion! To be their own people, outside of their relationships with their male counterparts. I long for the day that I can call Mille something other than Moxxie’s husband, Verosika, something other than blitz’s ex, and see characters like Loona and Stella have their personalities expanded upon! This world needs to be built! There is POTENTIAL! But the real question is, are they going to tap into it?
@@1221-g5fWhat I really Hope happens for an episode(Using the; Stella cares for Via. Trope): Andre talks to Striker and is like: Kill Via and then Stolas. Andre tells this to her sister and Stella blows up. She may be a bad person but she draws the line at harming her daughter. So Stella tells Stolas about this. They argue but begrudgingly team up to save Via from Striker. (IMP can be there if needed.) They stop Striker and Striker dies. (Because having him come back for a fourth time seems repetitive) Maybe Stella backstory??? Stella and Stolas make an uneasy truce to make sure her brother can’t do anything else.
I get Stella hates her husband but publicly embarrassing him would reflect badly on her. As a noble, she should know this. Her not caring shows her reputation doesn't really matter to her.
They are in hell, so maybe even in high circles you can be shitty. I mean, Charlie was made fun off on television despite being a literal princess, just because people don't respect her.
I think Stella is just an idiot who thought she could just obnoxiously abuse her husband and get away with it forever. Sadly she probably would've if it wasn't for Blitz considering no-one else cares.
@@PurpleSphere95 but would it really matter? Considering the fact that stolitz is...also facing some major issues, not as bad as cheating and abuse...but lies, manipulation, purposely deceiving someone and misleading them for selfish reasons... Stolas is the victim in both relationships. He left stella and is trying to escape an abusive marriage while also landing on someone who lied to him from the very beginning of their "relationship". Even if stolitz is less toxic than stolas's and stella's marriage, that doesn't change the fact that if stolas found out blitzo only approached him for his book, used him and let him believe something that was not real...I think it would break him far worse than stella ever could...and I can see her taking advantage of a very depressed stolas Blitzo should definitely get his shit together and face the consequences before stolas finds out himself and inevitably shuts himself to everyone and everything else. I don't feel like stolitz is as safe as the authors make it seem And I hope that they intend to resolve the internal conflict of blitzo and his relationship with stolas...otherwise I'd be side eyeing the ship (and authors) for the rest of the show
That's the point it should be AFFECTING her social status and Stolas and her family relative's! There's should be a potential of other assassin taking advantage of this ordeal Stolas and Stella affairs too y'know? Knowing Stolas hopeless for attention and love from others is the perfect target for others demons to take him down! Nooo We need our baby stola love story with the imp! Ugh! Care about world building...
The problem's not that she's 1-dimensional or unsympathetic; it's that she's unfocused and lacks motive. What drives her character. If she's obsessed with face, why does she complain about how bad he is in public?
I think Stella also lacks relationship with Octavia. We dont know whether or not Octavia hates Stella. We dont know how Stella treats Octavia. Its weird. I undertand that theres plenty of time to still explore this topic, but I find it weird because we cant deduce anything from their dialogue(and they are mother and daughter, so it's more weird)
I agree completely. And it’s strange because from season one during the circus episode it seems as though Via’s relationship with her mom is fine all things considering. Even more so it seemed like maybe the whole family interacted a lot more when Via was younger, she even notes that “When my parents didn’t hate each other”. Meaning that they at the very least were cordial to each other in front of their daughter to the point where the idea of them “splitting” gave her anxiety. At least in terms of one of them permanently leaving the family. I also wanna see more Stella and Via interactions ❤
@@Mitzthatonekid I don't know, she does enough for me. I get that sometimes you hc way too much on a character that writers never meant to expand on, so it feels like it's a waste of a character.
She was definitely wasted. She could've been a memorable antagonist, but she's just an abusive Ex-wife which is just about the most basic thing you could do considering the complexity of Blitz and Stolas' characters. Millie suffers from the same thing. You can't even like Stella ironically because she's not even enjoyably evil. I mean are a significant amount of people gonna buy merch of her and be public about it? There's literally no reason to even remotely like her now, because they're determined to make her that insufferable.
They didn't write Stella to be a villain, she's a strawman whose entire purpose is to make us feel bad for Stolas. She's deliberately written to be hatable in the laziest way possible. They're probably going to have her abuse Octavia at some point to really drive home that we're not supposed to like her.
And what’s worse is that she’s basically that horrible wife/girlfriend that the male character is willing to cheat on which appears a lot in Yaoi fan fiction. Since when did Helluva Boss turn from a dark comedy show like Rick and Morty into another angsty Yaoi fanfic?
THANK YOU! The idea that they made the villain one-dimensional to avoid potentially making an abuser sympathetic reeks of insecurity and laziness. To make it worse, by making Stella cardboard cutout that dispenses abuse whenever the writers want to make the audience cry, they've portrayed an abuser in a completely unrealistic way. The same kinda goes for Crimson, Moxxie's father, but at least he can turn it off. The writers seem to want to portray abuse without portraying abusers, which is pretty exploitative and shitty.
Plus it's a tacit endorsrment of cheating on Stolas' part. His infidelity is not just excused, it's downright vindicated by the writers. Remember when LooLoo Land made it clear Stolas is the problem? Now it's clear the writers don't intend to have him at fault for anything. It's all Stella's fault now.
@@untappedpotential2761 Most abusers aren't as blatant as Stella. Which shows the writers really shouldn't be trying to tackle serious subject matter like abuse or infidelity. They're clearly not equipped to handle it with the maturity it deserves. Like suicide. If the leaks are to be believed, Millie's episode will try to tackle suicide...
*[BIG rant incoming]* My issue with Stella wasn't that she was a bad person or didn't have a sympathetic/freudian excuse My problem with Stella is the fact that, with the way they characterized her, it makes Stolitz *TOO SAFE* What I mean by that is by removing nuance to this situation that could've had that, it actively makes the ship safer (and more likely endgame). Removing tension in the process And it's not like I'm asking for nuance where it doesn't exist no- the show VERY WELL OCULD HAVE DONE IT! We've seen multiple pictures of Stella/Stolas together with Octavia (atleast with a good look) Stolas, before we knew about all *that*, had been cheating on her with Blitz, an imp (a lower class specimen) This very well could've had nuance as it could've been the fallout of an arranged marriage where both parties tried to make it work, but failed; with Stella having it up to here with Stolas bullshit Is she still in the wrong wmfor ordering a hit on her husband?? Oh absolutely But it comes with the nuanced explanation To me, the appeal of Stolitz comes from the fact that it's a dumpster fire trainwreck that you can't look away These two are highly dysfunctional and have MAJOR relationship issues they need to sort out But that dumpster fire is what I LIVE for By making Stella a turbo bitch you've actively made that dumpster fire much safer and more prone for the audience to gun for That's just a cheap move you know.
I doubt i could explain this any better if i tried. To me you hit the nail right on the head for why i think this episode just didn’t work, at least for me.
@@realjoemavro as a fan of something you should hold it up to higher standards I am a fan, therefore I will do such Comedies I can be funny AND have depth What they did with Stella is something I'd expect from a cartoon where they have a bully character with a shirt that says "BULLY" Not a goddamm adult comedy dude
Im late, but this is LITERALLY the same thought process I had when seeing the first episode of season 2. It gives Stolas such an easy out, and while I don’t agree with Stella, or think she’s a good person, there was a huge opportunity to tell something more realistic, instead of just giving Stolas (and Stolitz) such an easy out. Thank you, for validating my feelings with this amazing rant.
To me, it feels like Stella is that fanfiction trope where a really mean, abusive character is written that way just to push the main ship together. I hate that.
Yeah, Stolitz has ruined a LOT of things about the show... Viv is hellbent on giving us this yaoi, borderline Stockholm syndrome ship when there are other people (especially Verosika) who would treat Blitz as an actual person rather than a sex object...
She had so much potential, I was ready for her to become the villian you love to hate, only for them to turn her into a screeching harpy wife and puppy-kicker trope. Stella sweetie I am SO SORRY
Even Joseph is better written than Stella, he is man of his time period, he was abusive but in his mind he wasn't an abuser or toxic, now compare that with the cuztheplotdemandsit evil that Stella is, she was ALWAYS bad, she NEVER loved or care of anyone and never expressed other feeling that wasn't "angry" Joseph was written like a person Stella is written like a plot device
Tbf, like Stella, Beatrice was characterized as constantly abusive in the early seasons of the show with zero redeeming qualities. It wasn’t until Season 4 that they expanded upon her, turning her into an incredibly nuanced character. Thanks to all this feedback from the fans, I am optimistic SpindleHorse could course-correct in the right direction.
@@malikarsyasakani even I a retarded 16 year old could make better writing because ever since the third or fourth episode i was just wondering what the hell they were even doing!?
Exactly! “It’s Hell” is not an excuse. I’m not writing my beloved character Camilla do bad things or be an icky person just cuz she’s in Hell. You either have the good writing on par, or the writing not taking itself seriously.
Even Striker is a good villain, his contrast between intense ambition, self loathing nature, and being very aware of his social class provides good contrast for IMP and has actual humanity albeit exploitative in sparing Moxxie and Millie to try to manipulate Blitzo.
Not really. It doesn't make much sense for the moron to rant about 'Imp oppression' in Harvest Moon only to then turn around and play Basic Bitch for some Imp chucklefuck who was no different than the Overlords that Striker bitched about hating so much in his debut episode
My main beef with Stella is that according to S2Ep1 she was _always_ that bad. I could sort of understand her toxicity and hatred towards Stolas escalating the way it does as a result of his cheating and generally bad parenting. I'm not saying he deserves it at all or it's his fault, but it could've been a way to give both of them more depth by showing how his actions have affected her and their marriage. Maybe she could've been trying to make it work at first too despite knowing neither of them are interested. Or maybe she was always bitter while not _as awful,_ but Blitzø was a last straw. Instead in the flashback episode she's just shown to have always been a horrible bitch, even as a child, that he was literally forced to marry. I guess it makes sense as they're royalty but just having her born evil is so much more boring to me Idk lemme know if I'm just chattin bullshit
@@yeethittter1285 Well yeah but still, she was just raised to be that way. Joker is more straight forward and does not even have that excuse but he would probably kick puppies as hell he has murdered children before.
I mean to be fair she might seem like a terrible person but she doesn't have any free will. She sticks with him because she says "What will the family say?" It seems she messes with Stolas but she might be bitter because she has no choice. The difference is how they react. Stella reacts to unfair circumstances by lashing out at Stolas. Stolas quietly accepts it. She says she wants to mock Stolas but than says she's scared of what her parents will say. She might trying to give herself more athority but is really just angry cause she doesn't want to have a husband.
I think the writing for Stella was very deliberate, make her as mean as possible so that Stolas is "justified" in his self-absorbed, narcissistic behavior. It's actually a very common thing done in LGBT stories, where the main characters are made miserable and surrounded by mean people who don't validate them with the writing emphasizing emotion so that them going around been selfish a-holes can be presented as a good thing
@@frankkennedy6388 So they can indulge in selfish, self-gratifying behaviour and not feel like shitty people for doing it. They can paint themselves as the victims while being selfish and self-indulgent. It's a very Narcisstic mindset that requires the victim complex to absolve them of any accountability.
The trope stops Stolas from being an abuser despite his unlikeable actions. Since assholes can still manage to be victims that isn’t an impossible thing to portray. Thing is both the show itself and viewers don’t know that could be the case.
@@ArtisanAsteroid It annoys me because Stolas' selfish actions destroyed his home life and Octavia has suffered for it. Then he continues to flirt with Blitzo rather than look for Octavia so we can have the comedic "Brendan Ragers" plot. The showrunners wants us to root for them despite them being objectively horrible people. The show isn't interested in a subjective morality of right and wrong, it just wants to paint the characters they want the audience to sympathise with as being "in the right" despite how selfish and destructive their actions are. This is also why Loona can get away with abusing Blitzo and suffer no consequences, where Stella abusing Stolas is painted as iredeemably horrible. Because the writers want us to like Loona and hate Stella. So Stella's abuse is demonised while Loona's is handwaved because trauma.
That doesn't excuse her from being a completely one-dimensional caricature of a villain, besides writers already proved they could do better. I like the show as it is, but even I was a little disappointed with Stella's "character progression".
@@aquamarina5216 I think it does, because up to this point, she doesn't need to explain even more. She's an outside force that pushes in every once and awhile. A character who stops by once and while doesn't need to be fleshed out as much.
Magneto: I did it cause the Nazis and hateful bitter people killed my family so I took a stand for Mutants everywhere Vaas: I did it cause I fell down a rabbit hole of incest and drugs only to realize we are the same Baldur: I did it cause my mother took my ability to feel and I went insane, I resented her my whole life and decided to enact it onto everyone Harley Quinn: I did it cause I was manipulated by a mad man and trapped in a world of abuse, but I pushed through and found my freedom Stella: I did it cause everyone wanted to ship my husband with an imp and make me look bad so the writers copied fanfictions and used them to make my evil lol
Stella being a one-note stereotype now is even worse because basically every other villain (except for Verosika maybe, but she won't be a big threat anytime soon) is just an asshole with insecurities at this point. It's just so much less interesting.
This is a problem across the board. Viv and her team of writers always TELL us how good characters are off screen but never show it in episodes. It becomes search to livestreams, Twitter, or any other source to figure out characters. (Ex. Her recent paragraphs about Millie's character) This happens to Stella, and if anything, the first episode has a LOT of plot holes that could render the first season as a separate universe entirely.
you perfectly described what the issue with stella is writing-wise as well as provided a much more compelling motivation for her that ultimately makes her a much more interesting character than what the writers were aiming for. all in all, this is a rly great video! loved it
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. When the show first started, I thought this would be a Hera and Zeus situation. Where Zeus is bad for cheating but Hera takes it one step further. Except we see her hate Stolas not blitz, which made me think she was a more complicated character, or not as she appeared to be. I personally felt that by making her the cliche abusive ex ruins her character potential, now I’m not saying that Stella was never a bad person just that this could sort of a final straw for her. Not only that but this makes stolas come out clean, blitz seems to be the only one with real potential and is it so wrong to want a relationship that’s complicated for both parties or starts of rocky. Making Stella an abusive ex is just an excuse to have stolas cheating justified. People assume that Stella being mad at the cheating would instantly make her a good person, you could still have a villain who goes to far with her, she could still be the abusive rich girl who treats those beneath her as bad. I’ve seen people make fun of people for complaining about the show writing, but people complain about bigger shows without much backlash. I’ve seen to many gay and straight hallmark movies, who do the cheat of your partner if their abusive cliche. Now for some reason when people see people complaining about Stella character potential and that she should be more mad at the cheating or cheating with someone of lower class is because they don’t believe men can’t be abused but that’s not what their saying. Their just upset that they used the oldest cliche in the book to justify cheating. In fact I bet if this situation was reversed that stolas and blitz were a lesbian couple and Stella was a man that they’d be jumping viziepop for this portrayal while using the same argument I’m using now.
The thing is Stella being terrible and her having a terrible relationship with Stolas was hinted at since season 1. It didn’t come out of nowhere. Season 1 Stella was more upset that Stolas slept with a imp then the fact that he cheated. Then there’s the speech Stolas gave to Octivq. He stammered a lot to try not protect his daughter but, from what I got is he didn’t exactly marry Stella out of love. Then there’s the family photos. They appear to be happy with some tense body language. It might be cliché but, its not like stolas and Blitzo are happy together. There is still lots of issues they have to go through. It would take awhile before they even get together
The way I had assumed Stella's situation was was essentially, she gets into a marriage with Stolas that neither of them want to be in (I always assumed it was arranged, they're aristocrats) but sticks it out despite her not liking Stolas (and him obviously being gay) for the sake of their reputation among her rich peers. This made her anger very understandable when his affair with someone of a lower class was revealed in just about the most humiliating way possible, in front of her friends. I interpreted her anger as "I have dealt with this miserable marriage for so long for the sake of our reputation, and you just humiliate me like this without even thinking about that?!" Hence her getting mad that he slept WITH AN IMP, IN THEIR BED, as opposed to just him cheating in general. Like obviously none of that makes any of her actions following the cheating justified, but Stolas did absolutely wrong her, based on the info we got in season 1, and it was a nuanced situation. Season 2 though seems intent on dumbing that down as much as possible into "Stolas cheating was completely justified, because Stella was an abusive bitch the whole time!!!" to make Stolitz seem like a less morally grey pairing (which sucks to me, because the only reason I found that pairing interesting was the moral greyness, and I know I'm not the only one).
It’s seems Stella just cares for her reputation then the actual relationship it’s self , and it will be embarrassing to her that her husband that cheated on her with a lowest rank of the hierarchy .
There is so much I wanted to know about Stella, I was instantly interested into her character when she's outright putting Stolas on his ass for what he had done. Like you have stated, season two really butchered her character, like the paintings on the walls. Season one, the family are spending the day together, all three of them seem to be having a great time. Was it all fake? Maybe, or even they must've at least tolerated each other for Octavia's sake. But in season two, there is a portrait of the couple miserable... Completely debunking everything the fans have speculated. Even Octavia says in season one "I want to go home, but home *doesn't feel like home anymore*… *You ruined it* " and even in the flashback when not only did she called out for BOTH of her parents, but she called for her *MOTHER* first. Also, keep in mind, just because Stella gets mad telling Stolas to 'deal' with Octavia doesn't mean that she hates her child in any way. She could've just had a bad day. But, season two yet again throws that in the trash, as on their argument on the balcony. Stolas says "I tried for so many years to make it comfortable for us, to have this family" and "the ONLY reason I have endured your *constant* insults and cruelty, is *for that girl to have a normal life* " … Again just saying that Stella is really the one to blame, that what Stolas does is fine because, hey, at least its NOTHING compared to Stella. Stella is only written to excuse any bad thing Stolas does, the audience is just meant to see this in black and white. Because I'm sure Viv doesn't want people hating her gay UWU baby boy. Also, we still don't know the relationship between Stella and Octavia.
Yes, exactly!! You nailed it: they threw away just about everything set up about the household purely to make the gay ship (the way a lot of post-Tumblr girls fetishise and infantilise gay men is so so gross but I digress) look spotless and 1000% the right choice, no conflicts. Only... conflict is necessary in order to make an actual story. I think that's why the ship dynamic feels so flat and boring now.
@@Truffs_Stuff Because of this, the show actually drained me to the core. I wasn't even excited once the new episode dropped, the first thing I said wasn't "wow, I have been waiting so long for this to come out! I can't wait to watch it"... No, it was "another Moxxie centric episode. I doubt we will know anything about Millie". Even it seemed to be a good episode but I was just watching it with absolute no interest or passion like I used to. It really tells us how they mucked up their own storytelling. I think its once the episode when Octavia and Loona was going to be the focus that completely drained me. There is an obvious pattern for all the female characters being plot devices. Which sucks, but what sucks more is that Viv intentionally made all these gals interesting or having them as somewhat main characters (Loona or Millie) only to put them back on the sideline.
People who write that Stella does not need motivation and background as a villain are simply trying in every possible way to justify the most obvious lazy writing from the authors. The problem is that Stella even as a one-dimensional villain does not work, because besides the fact that she has absolutely NO charisma or villainous charm, like hundreds of other one-dimensional villains, and often from children's cartoons, her actions also make absolutely no sense. What's the point of her killing Stolas if his cheating didn't really hurt her? To get status and money? She already had all this before her marriage to Stolas. Why is she so offended by his cheating, if she never loved him? Because he cheated on her with a demon and this somehow denigrates their name? In that very episode, she openly said shit about Stolas in front of the demonic nobility, so some of his shitty actions do not affect her status in any way. Oh yeah, in the second episode of the first season, remember the line in Stolos' song "I used to think love would be fun"? Why was this line if there was never any love? And why does Octavia in the same episode say that when she was a child, her parents did not hate each other, if, as it turned out, there was not a single day that Stella did not hate Stolas? By the way, if you think about why all this farce with a marriage of convenience for the demonic nobility, if the main goal is to give birth to heirs? Why couldn't Stolas be simply forced to impregnate Stella or some other demoness so that an heir would be born? In this case, that same moronic excuse "THIS IS HELL AND THEY ARE DEMONS" would work. And the worst thing is that there was a potential to make an interesting antagonist, but it was washed down the pipe. And you know, Stella, even as an abuser, simply doesn’t work, because cutting her out of the series and inserting “I AM A VILLAIN, HATE ME” in her place would not radically change anything. She does not cause fear, some kind of horror, a feeling of tension or manipulation, like Mother Gothel, for example, she just infuriates with her endless hysteria and stupidity. The most boring, one-dimensional, flat, cardboard and unwritten character I've ever seen
I definitely disagree in the “no charisma or villainous charm” department. As for her actions: She called the hit on Stolas because his cheating does affect both their reputations a lot more than her gossiping about him to her friends would. She’s offended at the cheating for the same reason. He thought love would be fun as a concept but obviously we see his hopes were dashed when he was forced to marry Stella, someone can hear about an have a general idea about love before they actually do fall in love themselves. Clearly Stolas and Stella were at least able to keep their unhappiness to themselves when Via was around hence why she believes they didn’t hate each other. Lastly, the season just started, this was technically only Stella’s first major role, we are most definitely getting more later on. You can have ur opinion but at least wait a little longer before making your final judgement.
@@psychomagalor4902 How does it affect? This was not shown or indicated anywhere in the entire series, except for the mockery of Asmodeus, which is again strangely woven, because before that, Stolas quite openly flirt with Blitz in front of the entire hellish population. And how does it work at all, that a vivid demonstration that their marriage is unhappy and open pouring of shit does not affect the reputation of the WHOLE family, that is, including Stella, but bed comforts with a imp affect, which the same Asmodeus indulges in - no? But wasn’t Stolas already in love with Blitz at that moment, which was categorically vividly hinted at by his constant blushing? Stella clearly would not hide her (absolutely unreasonable and lazily invented) hatred of Stolas in front of her daughter, since, firstly, the voice actress confirmed that Stella was a bad mother, and secondly, in the same episode, she yelled at almost the whole castle about how she hates Stolas and what rubbish he is. Octavia wouldn't have heard that? Or is she so deaf, blind and dumb that she does not notice the obvious tension between her parents? The excuse that she is a teenager does not work, because, you will be surprised, but children usually notice this and it affects them very much, I tell you this as a child who, from the age of seven, watched his parents quarrel, which ultimately led to a divorce, when I was ten. And if I noticed this at the age of 7-10, then Octavia at 17 also had to guess at least something. For what reason does she blame her father for the destruction of the family and home, if Stella, who never hid this, was always the instigator of scandals? Yes, this is Stella's first major role, but it was more than enough to showcase her as a character, and yes, I might still have some hope if it wasn't for that idiotic baby photo that literally tries to tell us that she was evil from birth for absolutely no reason. And what more can they show us after that? And I really don’t understand what the charisma and villainous charm of a character consists of, who just yells and hysteria for absolutely no reason. And I'm ready to predict your words: "If you don't like this show, just don't watch it." I’ll tell you a secret, I won’t watch it anymore, because the first two episodes of the second season quite clearly showed me what I didn’t notice or didn’t want to notice in the first season, namely how average this show is, and if we compare its quality with the fiercest popularity and hype, then it is mediocre and lazily written. But if I don't like something, it doesn't mean that I'll keep my mouth shut or that I don't have the right to express my opinion about it. I have, and I will express my opinion in any form convenient for me
It also completely topples down the moral grey area the show had, Stolas now seems like a saint for cheating on her, Octavia seems selfish for no understanding Stolas's pain, and Blitz seems like an idiot for no caring enough about Stolas. It feels like they changed her character to copy fanfics and please Stoliz shippers
@@gamerstheater1187 Yes! You are absolutely right, if before that it seemed that the show in terms of characters and their development could go into some kind of gray morality, now all this potential has been lost, and this is a typical black and white story, but in the style of yaoi fanfiction. And with such a meager script and character writing, how is this show so popular and positioned as very deep and adult?
@@ОльгаГузняева First of all, he only ever openly flirted with Blitzo in front of a crowd of Imps, not the entire hellish population, hence why it wouldn’t be that big a deal compared to if he had done it in front of others of his kind. Plus the tease showed Asmodeus and Fizzarolli is also gonna cause some drama, so in that particular instance he may end up being a hypocrite, but it still shows that there is definitely the risk of higher-class demons finding out and making them a laughing stock because of it. Stella outcrying about Stolas or there unhappy marriage would not be something that affects the entire family, mainly Stolas, she would still be a respected member of high society(some gossip to her friends wouldn’t affect that), whereas her husband choosing to cheat on her with a low-class Imp would definitely make her seem pathetic as well for allowing that to happen. When they said she was a bad mother they almost certainly meant she was neglectful rather than abusive. If she was abusive to Via, she definitely wouldn’t have harbored any hatred toward her dad whatsoever. The only time we see Stella talk about Stolas is once when Via is asleep down the hall and she’s only casually talking on the phone and another where she’s angry about him cheating when Via definitely hears it because of the yelling. So clearly Stella did in fact hide her hatred well enough likely because she was hardly ever even there for Via. It’s one thing when one’s parents always loudly argue, but it’s another thing when one is almost purposely neglectful and the other just sucks it up and deals with it in silence. You say she was evil from birth for “no reason” and don’t see where they could take her after that. I say they could very well give us a reason for why she is the way she is when we inevitably meet her family. Most, if not all people, are born selfish and bratty, and it’s up to the parents or guardians to keep them from continuing down that path in the future. It’s likely Stella was not given that sort of care and just had her worst qualities enabled by her family. Obviously it likely won’t be a reason that excuses her or makes her sympathetic, but I definitely believe there’s more they can explore with her as a villain to show us exactly why she is the way she is. It may not end up being the most complex thing in the world, but I think there’ll end up being more of a reason as to why she is as horrible as she is. I definitely can’t control what you watch and what you don’t, nor what your opinion on some things are. If anything I’m responding to you simply to express my opinion and explain exactly why I feel that way. I doubt this will outright convince you to change your opinion but hopefully I’ve explained my viewpoint well enough that you understand where I’m coming from.
She was tormenting him before he cheated- I have a theory he might have done something other then cheating honestly, she was written *horribly* so many ways they could of made her a amazing character- If he didn't do anything before then *why would she still be mean to him at the time* its so confusing for me and I'm sure for alot of other people too! Also ima mention that stolas and Stella are still on talking terms because he tried to talk to her while she was on the phone- and also I like to point out he asked her to go check up on octavia so that means she would at least Sometimes because if he knew she wouldn't he wouldn't ask her too, octavia also yelled "MOMMMYYY DADDDYYYY" so she yelled for her mother too and I think thats important to point out 👀
The problem with how the show is written, outside of the flashback, all of Stella being horrible to Stolas came AFTER the affair (which he keeps going along with). The flashback was there to justify Stolas' cheating with the benefit of hindsight.
@Planet Zoidstar they basically baby stolas at this point 😭😭😭 they're like "look at our uwu gay bird boy!" When he's supposed to be a cool owl man that has awesome cool powers and having an affair 😭 like damn at least show us Something he does wrong!
@@SELEN0PH0B1A Exactly. At this point the writers have given up writing Stolas as a morally ambiguous character. He's basically become the main character and they are not going to depict him in a bad light after we saw his saccharine childhood. They could have given us a morally grey story, but they chose black and white for cheap, emotional tricks.
@Planet Zoidstar thank God for the trailer we just got, it looks better than the first 2 eps of s2! I really hope they don't mess up the characters even worse 😭 I have hope
Might be a bit out there, but I've wondered about if there might be more to her just being mean for the sake of being mean. If she was hurt in some way... other than being forced into a marriage against her will, under the exact purpose of getting pregnant by what is essentially a complete stranger. Which, to be fair, is a pretty sh*tty situation. Might be his indifference hurt her too. She complains about how he doesn't react to her in bed, how she has to do all the work, how he's a boring stiff. Well, it seems Stolas, unlike most of the cast in Helluva Boss, is purely gay. He just doesn't find her attractive, engaging, in any way interesting. But did he TELL her this at some point? If he didn't, she's laboring under the idea that Stolas is just finds her disgusting for reasons she doesn't understand. Maybe she was frustrated and angry because of that. She's prideful, we know that. Maybe Stolas's "putting up with her" felt like condescending bullsh*t to her. I don't actually think that that's the case, admittedly. For now, it seems Stella is a one-note bad guy with little direct impact on the plot.
I would've liked it if the reason she was upset was because of her rep and because she feels betrayed she doesn't have feelings for him but still feels upset that he ruined everything
I hate how we've never seen how Stella interacts with Octavia, her daughter. Like so much wasted opportunity there. She could've still been a bad person who wanted to be friends with her daughter rather than a mother and that would've been interesting to see.
Imagine if Stella had a reason to vie for their child's attention and even was deviously and maliciously cunning in how she did it. Mainly because she knows the child is important, but not Stolas. Perhaps even succeeding despite Stolas and the audience knowing better that Stella only sees her daughter as a tool. That would be a good way to make her compelling and incredibly evil and very easy to dislike in the same way that they would want without throwing away making her a good villain.
I hate her as much as Stolas. It is clear that Viziepop changed some things along the way to further villainize it Nobody notices this. Everyone just wipes Stolas, but they forget that in the first episodes he was really the jerk of the situation, and they forget that he lives harassing Blitzo. Blitzo really didn't feel right around Stolas. Viziepop only knows how to villainize characters for no reason. And Stolas' ex is the typical crazy ex girlfriend who wants to break up with the toxic gay couple. Sounds like those garbage gacha stories in 2017
I'm going to be completely honest: I haven't seen a singular person who "wiped" Stolas so far. Just because people understand Stolas more overtime because we get contact doesn't mean the writing is bad. It's actually a sign of talent to get people to like a character who kind of sucks. (Also, side tangent, the implied context of this episode is that Stolas harassed Blitz because he thought that's what Blitz wanted...) I do agree that it's a shame that Stella is a 1-dimensional character now (I mean not really because I find her so fun, but talking from a writing perspective here), however we don't know her like we do Stolas. I'm assuming in time she'll be developed into a full character, just as Blitz and Stolas have. Assuming all characters will be ocean-deep at first now the show has shown they're capable of it is confusing. We need to know the stereotype of the character before we subvert it.
This entire episode just kind of pulled me out of it multiple times. The balcony scene honestly being the worst because it's just Every cliche shade abusive Partner story trope Thrown until one 2 minutes seen
Honestly the fact that stolas and Stella were forced to marry just makes the fact she's not written well worse. Like, you'd expect that since they were both forced into it they'd both be equally miserable, so why would she care so much about her reputation with stolas? I think it would have been better if stolas did actually initially choose to marry stella for a specific reason [ like maybe have her strong rage be a reason he married her like he initially thought she'd be able to protect their eventual kid especially since the actual stolas from the ars goetia apparently rarely actually fought in battle so having a romantic partner who can fight would be a plus for him or even just that they were initially close platonically but were pressured to marry by their families cuz "ooh girl and boy close must be love!" ] Or hell, if not that just at least give us some development about her character like hints to her past, even something as small as just a quick sentence where she goes "yeah i learned this from my parents" would be acceptable!
Stella: am bad Fandom: ok nice, why u bad Stella: husband cheat no good reputation Fandom: ok make sense, how u act Stella : (angry bird noises) Fandom: ok uhm what makes you interesting ? Stella: .. uhhhhh And that’s the issue
Stella was in the right to be angry at Stolas cheating on her. Sure it was an arranged marriage to birth a precautionary heir to the royal family, but she didn’t have much of a choice either. At least she’s willing to attend to her royal duties, unlike Stolas who tends to abandons it in favor of imp cock. But the writers had to use the whole mega bitch trope on Stella which you can see a lot of angsty Yaoi Fan Fiction. Worst of all, we barely get to see any interaction between Stella and Octavia. They’re screentime together was sacrificed just so Stella can have another arguement on Stolas cheating on her and Stolas doing the whole Yaoi sex s**t with Blitzo.
To me, her character assisignation RUINED most of the show for me (because Stolas is in so much of it), I liked that Stolas was a compex man who was blined by his own desires so much so that he embaraased his wife and partially subjects his daughter to screaming and arguing. I liked when the show was about a man who needed to fix his royal ego/pay more attention to the cracks in his family before its to late, to a man who just needs to stop the evil bird lady and live happly ever frikin after! Stella is so god dang over the top in this episode its insulting!!!! (Stolas sings his feelings) (Stella walks up yelling at him for no god dang reason) “TF ARE U DOING!?” (Stolas) “relfecting…” (Stella, getting even more angry) “WELL STOP!!!” OMG why not just have her hear his breathing and tear out his lungs!? Shes so mad for no reason!! CHILDREN would not talk like this! “what are u doing? reflecting? NOT IN MY FRIKIN HOUSE DIE!!” Why does she hate bim? Because shes the bad guy. Jack Horner is more fun, kind, and interesting and neuonce than she is!!! a family movie made a villian intentionally evil, more funny, and well written than a mature- (oh im sorry) “mature” show can!!! I dont care abiut Stolas anymore, hes just a guy who will either win or loose, he wont improve like a person. (To quote Nostakgia Critic) “Its not about u bettering yourself, its just somebadguy out to get u, and you found him! problem solved!!” 🥲🤨😖😓
Stella is already in a royal status. Her brother Andrealphus is a Marquis which while not on the same level as a King, Duke, or Prince is still of royal status. There are 72 members of the Ars Goetia have status of King, Duke, Prince, Marquis, Vice Count, Knight, and presidents. There are 9 kings within the Ars Goetia, the only ones we have seen thus far are Paimon, and Asmodeus, though being a sin Asmodeus does fall under a different category.
Cannonically as far as we have been told, Stolas isn't homosexual. His queer, which means he could like woman too though it might be lesser so than man. Bit his first into to Stella was seeing her strangling a dog and likely after that they never met till close to the wedding- furthering any romance. Once revealed Stella was cruel and mocking? There was just no romance as Stolas can't be into a woman that cruel. If Blitzo was a woman? Dollars to donuts Stolas would still be intrested as he romantized his "first friend"
Frustrating how people think he's gay because they think queer=gay, even though it just means not straight. Lol I feel like Viv would have used gay when referring to him by now if he was, but every time I've seen her refer to him she says queer.
@@DeathEXE Queer is a bit rarer used of a term in LGBT so I understand most people don't know it's means "not straight". Stolas was listed as queer in all his bios but lately they all have been changed to gay so.. I dunno. Maybe Vizie did change her mind. X"D
My little problem with Stella In movies, series, books, novels etc, to me there are 3 types of characters 1: Characters who deserve the story and the story deserves them 2: Characters who don't deserve the story 3: The story that doesn't deserve these characters. Now Stella is obviously number 2. It's like those fanfiction, especially of Yaoi stories where the villain is just plain evil with zero characteristics. They don't show us how Stella treats Octavia, no episode 2 of season 1 is just how many moms and dads reacts. It's not all the time the two will be there for the kid. Also normally, Stella would never say all those things about Stolas because the family is there, and she's giving her family a bad name about herself. It would have made much sense if Octavia lived with her mother and Stella tries to have Stolas banished from the family. Now my biggest problem is this: In stories the villain always has motives behind their scheme: Scar wanting to take over Pride land, Ursula wanting to be the ruler of the underwater, The evil queen wanting to be fairest of one of all, but Stella has no motives. So far we just see her say "I wanna kill my husband". They even had to introduce Andrealphus to be the mastermind. Like why? Even the Devil (please don't read this if you're a kid or if you don't believe in God) wants to do everything he can to turn humans away from God to be ruler of the earth. What villain has no motives behind their schemes? It's like they just wrote Stella to be this meanie so that Stolas can look like an angel, I mean seriously, she's born this evil? Like a villain without motives is not enjoyable at all like her. If she had more motives and other qualities, that would have been a major improvement for Helluva boss. But no, she's evil. The reason we all enjoy Disney, Pixar or Dreamworks etc villains is because they have this charisma and how they execute their schemes but Stella has none, and do Goeshas accept the killing of one partner in an arranged marriage? I'm just asking but yeah. Stella deserves better writing. I feel even Octavia, Millie, Loona and Verosika deserve better writing that just being ladies with hot temper and issues. So that's it. That's my problem with Stella, maybe in the future episodes though, they will solve it....I don't know, one can only hope. Thanks for reading this long comment, sorry for rambling.
Yeah I mostly agree with this I didn't think she was going to be that complicated but I would have at least preferred her to be a little more interesting then what we got hopefully that changes.
@@dimontebaker4439 I wouldn't claim "nobody" is salty considering how things have been in the comment section so far. People have been saying stuff like "you clearly haven't seen the video" and "you're just critisizing the charater because she female" Check the comments and read through them for a bit! For every reasonable person there's another that's just being rude.
It's doubtful Stella was ever meant to be the main villain. It's likely that a higher power than Stolas will try to kill him next. Or at least someone with equal status as him and a bigger threat than Striker was; will attempt to kill him. Most likely Andrealphus, Stella's brother or even Paimon, Stolas's possibly homophobic father. But Stella was never meant to be the main villain and she wouldn't have been a good one since her only motivation was to torment him because she's an evil bitch.
That's an extreme way to think about it. How dare ppl rightfully call out the critics inconsistencies and factual point out the problems with their critique. Calling them triggered is just a childish way to look at it
@@dogsoldier123 Most of the people here haven't even been factual when giving her crituqe. They've just been shitting on her and calling her names. [Edit; Keep in mind I said most. Not everyone who dares disagree with this video is invalid. I can get where some people are comming from, but her points about the writing are not pontless or invalid. If we want this show to be great we can't just blindly blow sunshine up Viv's ass. Even if the show is not over, having feedback and crituqe like this is helpful for improving the writing in the future!
I like the idea of her being bad because of her family's influence, because it was shown that she was mean even when she was a kid. We know she has an 'arrogant brother' too, so maybe their parents forced them to be tough and mean as kids so they could survive the royal life. Since royals showing their true feelings is mocked (Charlie getting laughed at and Stolas getting dissed by Ozzie), Stella could be putting up a facade as a social self defence, and using Stolas as a shield. It's like when people who were bullied become the bullies, they know how it's like and they would do anything to be accepted and not go through that again, even if it means putting someone else through the same thing. And everyone hates Stella, but defend Loona, despite Loona being mean like Stella.
There is a possibility there could be a future episode to season two that can give us a more character development for stella, there are certainly fan art & comics that did that... so can the series too.
I actually hated Stella from the start and after the reveal she placed a hit on Stolas I thought she was irredeemable and probably going to be a major antagonist. Even tho I hated her, I did like the fan content of Stella and Stolas having a good relationship prior (mainly for angst) and respected people who liked her. When the reveal happened I was happy in a way to be right for predicting it, but then a wash of “Oh, this is her whole character isn’t it…” came over me. I mainly feel bad for the people that liked her.
Yeah I agree they could've done more with Stella. I heard they originally were going to have a better arc for her but because people were rooting for Stolitz so much they ended up scrapping it. I don't know if there's truth to this, it is simply something I heard from somewhere so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. Though watching the episode she had the most screentime in... It really seems like they were trying to shoehorn in just how bad she is. If it were me I'd have done more to show that Stella, herself, is scared. More specifically, of her older brother Andrealphus. She cites his name meaning his opinion clearly matters to her. I want a Stella episode where she deals with similar experiences to what she put Stolas through. Not to completely dissolve or wave away what she's done, but to show it's not just coming out of nowhere. Maybe have Andre around her making comments. How she's a disgrace since as the wife it is her only job to produce an heir and keep her husband satisfied in every aspect of their marriage. Because in royal families if the husband cheats, blame typically is placed upon the wife for not being appealing enough or exciting enough. Don't make her a sad villain, but make her one that makes sense.
I have never watched the show, but I've heard about it, and this was one of the most hated characters in the fandom, I can see why You make very good points! Stella's character does seem one dimensional and just lazy, the key to writing good villains is to give them a good enough motivation and personality so the fans can get hooked on to them Stella does a absolutely EMBARRASSING job at providing this, she just feels like every stereotypical villain, and that's sad, she had potential, but the writers just wasted her
I think it's too early to write Stella as wasted. Literally decided after choices made in just one episode? That's pretty harsh and impatient. I think we can't fully judge Stella before we meet her brother. In s2 ep1 we find out that she has a brother and Stolas thinks he is arrogant. Vivzzie has future plans for Stella and possibly more depth. We just need to wait before getting hyperfixed on like 2 episodes because of long waiting and go overboard with judgment.
Still you can't just change a character to be a total bitch and expect people to justfised tourment towards another character even though that character had cheated on her. At this point we can't justified either of these characters because of terrible writing and they are just awful characters. Season 2 fall flat.
Except that it’s kind of impossible to make her feel nuanced after this. She’s introduced as a violent and abusive child and then tells Stolas she likes to abuse him and make him feel bad just because. adding depth to her later on would feel like a random character turn, even if planned
I agree. That first in ep in this current season is only a hint to whats to come for Stollas, their daughter octavia and possible his colleagues, as well.
They made her an abusive bitch who hurted the shows' little gay owl baby man. The fans are the same people who watch shits like Steven Universe and Owl House, so there is no way they would give her any chances.
0:58 Stolas' sexuality hasn't been confirmed with all the words yet, but I don't think it can as he's only been shown to be attracted to one character the entire series so far and the way things are going he won't be attracted. by anyone else. Also him not being attracted to Stella could be for the reason already explained, the marriage of both is arranged
@@goddessbettyd5614 Of course? Their marriage was arranged? What did you expected? That it'd be like one of those romantic movies where the characters get married through an arranged marriage and slowly fall in love? She was unhappy as well
I was hoping, at the very least. That yes they were arranged, and she knew he was gay, but at one point they were even friends and had a child to keep up appearances, but they still loved the child. And Stolas cheated so he could have what he wanted, something more, and that broke Stella to make her have those outbursts. And yet
YESSS I agree!! I don't know why people brush off her lazy writing, it almost feels like they're making excuses, and for what? lmao you have a new subscriber!! ^^
Stella was never a morally good character, but you can understand why Stolas' affair made her so angry. This episode however, tries soooooo hard to make you root for 'Stolitz' while also making Stella even more of a cruel, hateful person. It robs all the nuance and accountability from Stolas and Blitzo, by demonising Stella they are basically putting Stolas, the cheater, the neglectful father, in the right. They took the easy way out by turning Stella into an R-rated Evil Disney Queen, so you can feel justified in rooting for the damaged woobie Stolas.
one thing i came up with is that stella's not goetia by blood, and because of that doesn't have much actual sway in the dynamics of family relations even if she's married into the royal family. perhaps it has to be stolas who makes the call on divorcing a wife he was arranged to marry, and she doesn't actually get to say anything about her place in it because she's not goetia; but public opinion of their social circles plays into it too. its not secret the goetia and higher-ruling classes are basically celebrities, and like celebrities, there's opinions about them that they need to monitor and tamper in order to not lose favour or power with the rest of hell. when an arranged marriage between a prince and his wife is evidently going very badly, that catches people's attention, and might push the royals to encourage stolas to divorce her willingly, while she still maintains dignity and connection with them in the long run (through custody rights over Octavia being an heir of her ans stolas, i don't know). so her publicly talking about how badly their marriage is going forces their social circles to Notice, and eventually claw its way up to the top where Paimon takes note and tells stolas to divorce her. she loses the power that came from being stolas's wife but maintains a connection through Octavia, and through this her family stays connected to it all - which i believe is what Andrealphus wants. thats a very convoluted idea and doesn' excuse the frankly terrible writing of her that is clearly just a gimmick to make the audience feel sorry for stolas (which i have Opinions about) but to me in my head it humanises and explains her actions and behaviours and possible motivations, especially if you consider an avenue that her brother is trying to use her to gain things from the goetia for himself. stella is shown to be somewhat naive and not totally comprehending of the consequences of her actions and while i dislike the suggestion that she's genuinely stupid, i think its interesting if she's got a tendency to shout first think later, and people have taken advantage of this, especially her brother (who i see as a smarmy manipulative creep, personally). as such, he tells her how to make it look like the marriage is failing (cos it is) and gain favour with the goetia family through pity while maintaing a familial connection that retains some of their status and allows them access they didn't have before the marriage. however her personal feelings about being cheated on (which is essentially stolas throwing away EVERYTHING she worked for to gain favour and appreciation with the royals purely because he can afford to act to his desires but she cannot, and she was forced into this marriage as much as he was, and especially if you consider she was needed to create an heir as well, it paints a picture of her essentially being raised as a bejewelled brood mare that was only good for making connections and getting her family up higher with no concern for her wants or wellbeing; so yeah if my arranged husband suddenly slept with a lower class citizen for no reason other than personal enjoyment after i'd been forced to rub shoulders with royals and try to be appealing to them for years in an unhappy marriage, i'd be pissed too), she arranges for stolas to personally be assassinated because she's just so angry - andrealphus didn't know about striker at all until he kidnapped stolas, and it takes his reasoning for stella to call him off and keep stolas alive - because if the news comes out that stolas dies for good, especially as a result of her planning, she will genuinely never be allowed to be seen in public again and will be horrifically disgraced for life, which andrealphus cannot have after it's taken this long to get here and he's so close to getting the poiwer he craves. again, really needlessly convoluted idea, but its what ive come up with to make it make sense in my head and to make stella a more understandable character to me. her actions aren't excusable but they are understandable if you look at her like this, or even something like it. (also im tired of women being the bad guys between gay male relationships and also i like bitchy female characters i think they're fun so i want to make her understdnable in her behaviours while retaining her nasty mean streak that i really enjoy watching). sorry i know this video is now 9 months old but stella is Important to me personally ^^;
Honestly, I think they only made Stella this huge of a bitch so that they could direct people's sympathy to Stollas. Now, Stollas is an interesting character, but I honestly prefer him much more at the pilot. What I'm trying to say is, Stollas behaviour was wrong, and continues to be wrong. He is also a bad person in this scenario, but it appears that all his nuance was completely thrown out of the window! Stella sole purpose seems to revolve around being the object that suddenly makes Stollas an innocent victim and encourages him to do things that put his family at risk... If he was more like his pilot self, an actual "bad" person, this would be so much more interesting. It wouldn't appear like Stellas existence was a mean for Stollas to be forgiven for his wrong doings... I'm sorry if I couldn't explain myself in a good way, but that is simply my opinion in the end.
I think that even with working with the hole Circus dug for her character can be played around. Stella most likely had no real power or control of her life. Just like Stolas she was forced to marry, birth, and raise Octavia. Unlike Stolas however she doesn't have any royal duties beyond what was just mentioned. So one way to feel like your in control of something is abuse. That's why she torments Stolas, the man who to her had stolen her life away before it really got going. Why she throws the Imp butlers around and treat them like shit, she's in control and they can't say or do anything. She talks shit about Stolas because she knows she can use the old "Call in the big bro to fix the problem and keep Stolas in check" until Stolas stood up for himself. This is simply something I quickly workshopped when you mentioned the Circus and I didn't even really bring up her and Octavia's potential relation ship (mainly because she's obviously a daddy's girl) and show that she isn't just a bitch because 'lol hell'.
On this note, I really hate what they did with Striker. In S:2 E:4, I hate how Blitz didn't react *at all* to Striker kidnapping Stolas. Did we not just find out Striker has access to heavenly weapons that could ACTUALLY kill Stolas? Not to mention the fact that Stolas wasn't even aware of it. Shouldn't Blitz be more worried that Stolas could die? Even if we're going off the fact that Blitz probably doesn't love Stolas yet, you'd think he'd be a little concerned his easiest ticket to the overworld is in danger like that. Even when we were shown when Blitz was a little worried, it wasn't mentioned at all later?? He didn't even send a stupid little text? What characters do and don't know in this show is so confusing and I hate it. Viv is good at setting up interesting plot points, but DAMN, she's just at good at fucking it up
I always had an hunch stella and stolas were arranged but i saw them kinda like Bloberta and Clay were bloberta wanted to get marry and wanted to be with someone i thought stella was excited to be married with stolas but overtime slowly knew he didnt love her. I thought this since she mentioned that stolas cheating must’ve meant she had some attachment to him but then season 2 came and im like….whattttttttt theres no way stolas couldve put up with that marriage for 17 years and suddenly want a divorce
I think, despite the fact that Stella could be written better, she is pretty well portrayed as a narcissist. I think that’s Viv’s goal: to just have a character so icky, so irredeemable, and wanting attention even if that means talking trash about your marriage.
I’d like to point out a phenomenon of natural progression of evil. We see Jack Horner’s motive for evil is rooted in the jealousy of magical creatures, he wants their powers. While as a child, he’s not depicted as evil, if only a little envious of Pinocchio’s showmanship, which is the seed for his evil deeds to grow. Horner becoming evil is done off screen, and we see him as a fully developed character by the time of the Last wish’s events. We were given the info we needed to make our assumptions of the character and to not waste time. It answers questions about his character and leaves us satisfied with his character. He’s not truly evil for the sake of it, he has a goal, and he sees anyway to get it as a viable way. Stella on the other hand…. We get one image of her as a kid, that doesn’t even tell us anything about her behavior besides that it stems from childhood. We don’t truly know why she’s so angry, why she’s always hated Stolas, and why she sees her methods as fitting for her needs. We aren’t given proper information on why she’s the way she is at all! It leaves the audience confused, because even if they plan to show more of her backstory in future episodes, there’s barely any setup or hints at Stella’s motives. There is so much info that is missing from this equation, that LOGIC and REASON would say there should be. Like Viv picked out all the mean and nasty bits of Stella, and left the rest in the dust, if they even existed at all. Evil just for the sake of it is a cocept of surface level writing. If you’re making a character with human constraints and bounds, evil for the sake of it does not fit. Even though we are likely to get some more information on Stella, her relationships and her story, we as critics have to assume that Viv is not aware of this issue. If we say nothing and She doesn’t know, then we’re all fucked, but if we say something, then Viv will know. Horner works for his specific story, and it’s needs. His place as a means of comedy, a pushing force, and an antagonizing role, all fit the bill. What does Stella even have? What traits make her imposing?
@@callofthedragon6487 Friend, no it is not. You took a noteworthy example of a unsympathetic pure evil villain, and made a comparison to another unsympathetic pure evil villain. Stella has the workings of a Jack Horner, but only if she’s tweaked to fit it. Don’t call yourself stupid, please.
if were to put my thoughts on this, shes not really an actualk villlian yet, but also she might get replaced by andrelphous (Idk how to spell his name) who is her brother
The Circus turned an already thinly-sketched caricature into an avian Lisa from The Room, only more shouty. I've no idea why some people bother defending the writing behind a boring character who's basically the female version of those abusive fiancees/"other men" from soap operatic movies like Titanic or Moulin Rouge (both 'adult' movies practically written for children). And how beyond immature and needlessly hateful for some viewers to claim someone hasn't seen the show just because they wrote a video essay that argued for something they didn't want to hear, when they could've just not watched the video. I'd hope the rest of the show would delve into your proposed alternative scenario, but given the creator's response to criticisms online, I'll not hold my breath. Strip away the aesthetic and other edgy trappings, and this show is no different than a turn of the century melodrama.
So, I recently went back to watch season 1 episode 2: Loo Loo Land. Because there was that one scene that contradicts to what kind of relationship Stella and Stolas had with one each other in season 2. Namely I'm talking about the childhood flashback of Octavia crying for her dad. I've noticed that Stolas and Stella were sleeping on the same bed. And I think it is pretty strange to sleep with someone whom you later claim to have always hated. This gave me the impression that both of them had tried to be civil with one another, more precise their marriage felt like partnership. That is before the affair with Blitzo had happened. I hope I'm being clear on what I tried to write here .
I think they have big plans for Stella, she isn't fully developed yet I think and we haven't had too much screen time with her for her side of everything. She has potential to do.. horrible things yet still.
Writing everything on the spot is a terrible move though,you’ve gotta plan ahead at least somewhat. Not right before you start animating things important to the plot.
I kinda feel that Stella is still being introduced, as hopefully, Millie is. In my opinion, the real Stella's motivation everywhere is her seeking power. The first picture that we see of her as a child is her strangling smn. Aka dominating. In the second episode of the first season, when she tells Stolas to take care of Octavia can mean that she talks to Stolas like to one lower than her, the one she can manipulate and give orders, bc she is the most powerful in their relationship. Her publicly diminishing her husband can be also read as a power move. Like "look what I can do, look how I can act with no consequences whatsoever". Now when Stolas cheats on her a) with an imp, almost the lowest class of demons, b) in their bad chamber, c) during their ball for "not being divorced" aka another power move from her, she might have considered this as a harsh punch on her reputation as a boss of this whole situation. So yes, then it's logical that she wants to kill him to once again show them all that she is wearing pants in this situation. And it's also logical that she wants to torment Stolas, to make him feel miserable, bc she wants to re-establish her dominance here. And finally it is logical why she is so pissed because of the divorce, bc once again, it shows how really powerless she is in terms of managing this situation. I definitely think that there are not enough details in Stella's story and the order of the demon's high society. Like, why does she have this motivation to be empowered? Is this bc she was always powerless with her parents but had a different coping mechanism compared to Stolas? Or is it bc of the place women have in the demonic society? And what will happen to her after the divorce, in terms of status, and relationship with her parents? Anyhow, I stand for the idea that this was not a sloppy writing, but rather a long introduction of the character. However, if it turns out that there will be smth like 8 seasons of this story then it won't be considered that lengthy. I guess the only thing we can do now is just to wait to learn more :) And hope that more attention will be given to Millie, bc her being completely underdeveloped is the sourest bit of the show :(((
I think you're wrong. She was only making fun of Stolas to her close friends. Even if she said these things publicly for the World to hear it would only say that she thinks that she is to good for Stolas and that doesn't hurt her status. Stolas sleeping with Blitzo is a different thing, because it doesn't sound good at all when your husband would rather sleep with a member of the second lowest spiecies in all of hell rather than you, a noble. It's like saying i would rather f*ck dirt than you.
I gotta say on a neutral bases on writing. Helluva boss and hazbin hotel are not well written and most of the characters aren't as well. It's full on too fast pacing, plot holes, plot conveniences and lazy writing. It gets harder and harder to watch the episodes. Especially the last one doesn't make sense. Moxxies dad is "homophobic" and thinks that all gay and bi people are onky obsessed with dic**s. Yet all the characters are obsessed with it and only thing about doing the do. So hating crimson makes no sense (maybe only bc he was a brick of a dad but like you said villain characters still can be well written) it's just a small example of so many I could give of bad writing.
Hey, if you thought THAT was a waste, how about the fact that the writers gave Verosika only 2 minutes of total screentime and 1 SET OF LINES in Ozzie's (despite the Lust Ring being the environment she should be especially important in) so that they could make episode 8 an irrelevant furry party filled with ancillary characters we'll never see again? Now THAT'S what I call a waste!
@@tombstoneslogan2994 I'm saying that at least Stella gets SCREEN TIME. Verosika, who should be one of the show's prominent antagonists, was only given 1 set of lines in the Lust Ring episode even though it was set in the environment in which she's supposed to be the most important and despite how much she'd been built up!
@youtubedweller I feel like they made her that way just so they can justify Stolitz. While I want Stolas to be happy, because he deserves to be loved and happy... the way they are writing this story is... just wow
Also there are Villains like stella that people like and it is normally in very good movies where there characters who were always unhinged and messed up. Cledas cassidy A.K.A carnage is a big one. If stella were to be more like some characters like cleadis then she would have been loved more. I think that they need to give her more but not like a sympathetic type if way. I would like for her to go to the level of characters like cleadis, Kakine, Nnoitora, and the nother from kill la kill levels of horrible. Give her more traits. That i agree. But i do not agree with making anything about her sympathetic, because that is not the point if her character.
Probably not even related to the video that much, but even though I really enjoy Helluva Boss, it makes me kind of uncomfortable how everything revolves around men, who are pretty terrible people by the way, but you're supposed to be sympathetic towards them because they are the protagonists, and how the "evil" people are usually female characters. I don't know, the show seems to be obsessed about homosexual males, which hey, you do you, but it's kind of distasteful how the meanest people around...are both Stella and Verosika, who are women. It feels very weird to me. The fact that I've seen a lot of people claiming that Stella is a lesbian is...just...oh my God. Heck, even when Strider is technically a bad guy too, him and Blitz end up...flirting? I don't know what's up with the writing team and making literally every single guy on the show same sex attracted, it makes me super uncomfortable, nothing wrong with men liking men, I'm a lesbian myself so I get it, but it just feels so weird. You don't need to make all your male characters homosexual and almost all your female cast vrry unlikable. Stella is horrible, Verosika is horrible, Loona is super unlikable, the only ones who are decent are Octavia and Millie. Maybe I'm looking to hard into it, but there's something about that that rubs me the wrong way.
Ayooo - sorry I haven't replied, I found this comment really interesting! So much so that I'm doing a video basically on this comment haha! Gonna talk a bit about how the female characters become accessories to the males' plots, etc etc - mind if I include a screenshot of your comment? :) No problem if you'd rather I left it out!
Tbh, to me stella is just the female version of how abusive husbands have always been represented in media. Sure she could have had more depth but do we really need that to understand that she is a bad person? I do agree that the writers gave up on her with the whole "let me explicitly explain my own character as if you're a dumb perosn with no critical thinking" Could she have been executed better? Absolutely Should she have excuses/reasons for her actions? Yeah it can help us understand where she comes from and what triggers her violent behavior Do we need to sympathize with her? Not really sometimes you don't need multidimensional characters, sometimes some characters are bad and that's it, but even if there was something more to it it's really easy to divert the attention from the actual victims (stolas and their daughter) given how many people just don't see past what is shown So did they waste her character? Not really I don't think anyone would want to learn more about an abuser, even if she was multidimensional she obviously isn't the kinf of character who is willing to nor is she supposed to have a redemption arc (although I wouldn't mind seeing what that looks like) Was she a wasted villain? Hell yeah she could've been so much more evil than this had she just...not blurted out all of her intentions as if it was the most logical thing to do in the world, we wanted a narcissist not a 90s anime villain...a twisted manipulator who doesn't hesitate to play victim and never considers what her actions could do to even herself...It would've been really interesting if stella played the victim to her daughter an made her believe stolas was the abusive one who cheated on her and didn't care about them Imagine the angst Imagine the whole entire arc where Octavia is finally saved from her mother's claws and learns the truth and can't not feel guilty for not seeing the obvious signs that her father was the victim I'm getting out of control now but yeah stella didn't need to have depth, she just needed to be a smarter manipulator instead of being a dumb mean woman with no self awareness...which I personally found kind of offensive since her only personality outside of marriage is wanting to party, status and living the rich life...which isn't inherently bad on itself What we needed tho, was a demonstration of what her actions did to her family...that's where the depth should've gone Octavia doesn't even mention her mother more than 3 times That the wasted potential
There's way more bad writing in this than just Stella. Hell is basically Earth, just slightly worse. The main characters are all classic character tropes seen a thousand times before, with the male characters being bumbling fools, and the female characters putting up with them. The only noteworthy thing this show does is it doesn't make a big deal out of some of the characters being gay. The exploration of how having a gay father and how it affects a marriage is at least interesting. Other than that, Stolas is not interesting at all. We've seen this character before in countless other TV shows. How uninvolved and utterly clueless is he about his daughter's life that it takes him an entire episode to realize she's not a kid anymore? About the only male character worthy of any respect is Vortex, but he's had only like 5 minutes of screen time. I imagine they'll find a way to ruin him. Maybe he gets together with Loona then cheats on her.
Hello there, I've been meaning to comment on this for a few days now (wish I had seen this video when it first came out xD). But I absolutely 100% agree with you and love the video. They had such good hints at making a morally grey situation where there was no clear cut villain even if Stella is a status obsessed elite and kind of a bitch. It really did seem like they threw her under the bus just so we have someone to hate and see as a true antagonist. Unfortunately this was at the cost of making her one dimensional and a very tired stereotype of the evil mother. There's nothing wrong with giving her layers and depth to make the whole situation just something that unfortunately happened that neither are the true cause of. Not saying she can't be the antagonist, she most certainly can, but they've pretty much shot any real development for her in the foot by making her always a bratty vile bitch with no care for anyone. Also, I am SHOCKED that I've had the EXACT same ideas for her that you pitched. A good engaging villain has motives, reasons, trauma, and logic to their actions. Someone like Stella doesn't act so high and mighty or obsessed with status without it being drilled in through traumatic and likely abusive childhood where love, if any was given at all, is conditional at best. Not saying that purely shitty people don't exist, but more often than not it's a product of both nature and nurture. She deserves better and, and I hope this doesn't come off as advertising, I am giving her the treatment she needed in a fanfiction I'm writing (even if she's not a main focus). I'm keeping her basically the same, but adding the depth needed while getting rid of elements that were NEVER needed like her brazenly open abusiveness, and a lot of people seem to love what I'm doing with my fiction. Like seriously, in episode 2 if S1 we are given hints (albeit vague and arguable at best) through a picture and how Octavia talks to Stolas that they were happy to a degree once but now it's gone to crap because Stolas likely couldn't give Stella what was required and she possibly never liked him fully and thus the marriage went cold from a warm at best state where they weren't miserable. It's not her fault he was batting for the same team, nor is it his that things between them just got cold. It's just a messy thing that happened and she's just responding as she was likely raised to. Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, probably might not read but just had to say. Anyway keep up the great work on your videos,
I used to watch and enjoy HELLUVA BOSS when I was young, but this video opened my eyes. You just CAN’T enjoy things that are flawed sometimes. I know Vivian isn’t a bad person, but she’s flawed both as an artist and writer. If she took less inspiration from Invader Zim and more on (let’s say) Hellsing and Drifters, I guarantee her work would be 10 times more great.
Why would joking about his infidelity lower her social status? I mean sure it's crass but this is hell that seems more than socially acceptable in a place like this.
@@isamekailmahmud9302 Even in Hell "My sex life sucks and my husband cheat son me" isnt a status symbol. Its hell, morals are out the window, but its not like theyre in bizarro land
My biggest pain is that Stella's potential was wasted to push a VERY TOXIC SHIP. Stolliz is a perfect example of a power imbalance between two parties. Stolas has control over Blitz, through the status and Grimoire Blitz needs. Stolas uses this to gain sexual advantage from Blitz. If Blitz were a woman, everyone would be mad at the show's creators for romanticizing the molestation, but since they're both men, this is, for the most part, cute and romantic. The worst thing about this ship is that it doesn't make sense. Blitz hates Stolas in earlier episodes and suddenly he loves him? Did I miss a few episodes? Stella could have been a well-written character, but the creators decided to throw her potential out the window of a toxic ship.
i think writing a "sad backstory" for Stella would be unnecessary but focus her character on being obsessed with social opinion would be great, for example on the party she could act like stolas and her have the best relationship in hell and Stella would prevent stolas from telling the truth. on the balcony scene when stolas tells her he wants a divorce she could with fear and anger say "no you can't! " because it'd ruin her reputation. that way after divorce she could be even more into killing stolas, because of ruining her reputation and because she could be like "oh that night was so awful, i was bearly able to save Octavia" and that way her reputation would be back on track
Yeah, I wish they had done that instead!
Narcissists like Stella (or at least I THINK they tried to make her one) will try their best to appear good in the public eye. If their abuser pushes back and breaks things off they will play victim and do their best to keep a good reputation around other people.
Her bragging about her family while Stolas is standing there, knowing the truth about how things really were would have been more impactful. If they wanted to tackle abuse they have done a very poor job so far.
Yeah I can so see Stella as like the privileged villain. Narcissistic, thinks everything should be handed to her, and sees people as things. So kinda like Azula from Avatar.
@@mysticeli3163 Eh, no. She had trauma.
@@yeetneet Shes not a narcissist. She had trauma.
@@Featheryfaith7To be honest we don't have much conformation about if she has any trama or a personality disorder, so I will not claim that Stella is 100% a narcissit unless Viv confirms it to be so. It's more of a headcanon based on how she behaves so far, but it might not be the intention. This is all just speculation from me.
About "She's not a narcissist. She had trauma." I will have to point out that those two things are not mutually exlusive. They go more hand-in-hand than some people notice.
Whenever people have had a tramatic childhood, there are many different ways it can mold a person growing up, and that trama can factor into someone becoming a narcissisist and abuser.
Source: My narcissitic dad was abused by his father at an early age. He then went onto abuse me, my siblings, and my mother untill we escaped him. Trama and abuse is a domino effect in a way.
Atop her lackluster motivations, she also has nothing compared to Stolas.
Powerful magic? No. There is no depiction in the show that Stella has any magical abilities to speak of.
Royal connections? Probably, but it seems that Stella comes from a lessser family than Stolas considering her lack of magical abilities, and that the ARS Goetia are the big royal family. Whatever connections she has, cannot be greater than Stolas’s own, if he chooses to use them.
Intellegence? Again, we aren’t given anything that says that Stella is in anyway more intelligent than Stolas, besides their standard royal education.
Charisma? No.
Is she manipulative? No. She just has the mean green money machine.
Is she scary? Not to us, and as of s2 e2 it seems that Stolas ain’t spooked by her either.
She has nothing that makes the audience like when she’s on screen besides the generic giant, sexy woman trope, and voice actress. She’s just a sad washed up, royal lady with nothing left to give us.
And you wanna know how Helluva plans to avoid this issue?
Andre! Because they’ll just put a MAN in the villain’s chair, and leave her to literally froth at the mouth about Stolas, and nothing else every SINGLE time she is on screen. Just like they always have.
Every single sentence she’s spoken has been about Stolas, to Stolas, or around Stolas. She’s just like Mille. Only in place to revolve around her (ex) husband, and to build sympathy for Stolas.
Such a waste.
OMG, this actually made me realize that Andre was really just a way to not have Stella do much.
Even with sneak peeks of the newer episodes it's going to be Andre vs Stolas now.
Which is just... sad.
Viv and her team aren't really good with female characters
It is such a a shame! Stella, like the other ladies in the show, have so much potential to be complex and interesting characters, that are capable of showing more than one type of emotion! To be their own people, outside of their relationships with their male counterparts. I long for the day that I can call Mille something other than Moxxie’s husband, Verosika, something other than blitz’s ex, and see characters like Loona and Stella have their personalities expanded upon! This world needs to be built!
There is POTENTIAL! But the real question is, are they going to tap into it?
Your prediction proved prescient, because Andrealphus' introduction episode "Western Energy" establishes that he's much more cunning than Stella.
@@Corrector1 And Stella is… dull. I’m gonna make another bold prediction…
Stella cares about Octavia.
@@1221-g5fWhat I really Hope happens for an episode(Using the; Stella cares for Via. Trope):
Andre talks to Striker and is like:
Kill Via and then Stolas.
Andre tells this to her sister and Stella blows up. She may be a bad person but she draws the line at harming her daughter. So Stella tells Stolas about this. They argue but begrudgingly team up to save Via from Striker. (IMP can be there if needed.)
They stop Striker and Striker dies. (Because having him come back for a fourth time seems repetitive)
Maybe Stella backstory???
Stella and Stolas make an uneasy truce to make sure her brother can’t do anything else.
I get Stella hates her husband but publicly embarrassing him would reflect badly on her. As a noble, she should know this. Her not caring shows her reputation doesn't really matter to her.
They are in hell, so maybe even in high circles you can be shitty. I mean, Charlie was made fun off on television despite being a literal princess, just because people don't respect her.
I think Stella is just an idiot who thought she could just obnoxiously abuse her husband and get away with it forever. Sadly she probably would've if it wasn't for Blitz considering no-one else cares.
@@PurpleSphere95 but would it really matter? Considering the fact that stolitz is...also facing some major issues, not as bad as cheating and abuse...but lies, manipulation, purposely deceiving someone and misleading them for selfish reasons...
Stolas is the victim in both relationships.
He left stella and is trying to escape an abusive marriage while also landing on someone who lied to him from the very beginning of their "relationship". Even if stolitz is less toxic than stolas's and stella's marriage, that doesn't change the fact that if stolas found out blitzo only approached him for his book, used him and let him believe something that was not real...I think it would break him far worse than stella ever could...and I can see her taking advantage of a very depressed stolas
Blitzo should definitely get his shit together and face the consequences before stolas finds out himself and inevitably shuts himself to everyone and everything else.
I don't feel like stolitz is as safe as the authors make it seem
And I hope that they intend to resolve the internal conflict of blitzo and his relationship with stolas...otherwise I'd be side eyeing the ship (and authors) for the rest of the show
That's the point it should be AFFECTING her social status and Stolas and her family relative's! There's should be a potential of other assassin taking advantage of this ordeal Stolas and Stella affairs too y'know? Knowing Stolas hopeless for attention and love from others is the perfect target for others demons to take him down!
Nooo We need our baby stola love story with the imp! Ugh! Care about world building...
The problem's not that she's 1-dimensional or unsympathetic; it's that she's unfocused and lacks motive. What drives her character. If she's obsessed with face, why does she complain about how bad he is in public?
I think Stella also lacks relationship with Octavia. We dont know whether or not Octavia hates Stella. We dont know how Stella treats Octavia. Its weird. I undertand that theres plenty of time to still explore this topic, but I find it weird because we cant deduce anything from their dialogue(and they are mother and daughter, so it's more weird)
I agree completely. And it’s strange because from season one during the circus episode it seems as though Via’s relationship with her mom is fine all things considering. Even more so it seemed like maybe the whole family interacted a lot more when Via was younger, she even notes that “When my parents didn’t hate each other”. Meaning that they at the very least were cordial to each other in front of their daughter to the point where the idea of them “splitting” gave her anxiety. At least in terms of one of them permanently leaving the family. I also wanna see more Stella and Via interactions ❤
We have baby Octavia's drawing on the wall with only her and dad, so I am pretty sure she ignores her existence most of the time.
@@DeathKitta which again makes her more of a waste of character, and it's annoying
@@Mitzthatonekid I don't know, she does enough for me. I get that sometimes you hc way too much on a character that writers never meant to expand on, so it feels like it's a waste of a character.
@@DeathKitta yeah, it's sad I liked Stella too, she seemed interesting until she wasn't
She was definitely wasted. She could've been a memorable antagonist, but she's just an abusive Ex-wife which is just about the most basic thing you could do considering the complexity of Blitz and Stolas' characters. Millie suffers from the same thing. You can't even like Stella ironically because she's not even enjoyably evil. I mean are a significant amount of people gonna buy merch of her and be public about it? There's literally no reason to even remotely like her now, because they're determined to make her that insufferable.
They didn't write Stella to be a villain, she's a strawman whose entire purpose is to make us feel bad for Stolas. She's deliberately written to be hatable in the laziest way possible. They're probably going to have her abuse Octavia at some point to really drive home that we're not supposed to like her.
I actually like Stella
Complexity? The StoLitz relationship can be boiled down to 'I fucked around and caught feelings'
And what’s worse is that she’s basically that horrible wife/girlfriend that the male character is willing to cheat on which appears a lot in Yaoi fan fiction. Since when did Helluva Boss turn from a dark comedy show like Rick and Morty into another angsty Yaoi fanfic?
Despite the bad writing, it's still funny hearing her say "STOLE ASS!"
The real reason for the divorce all along
Well at least to me the Stolas was literally name is a pun if stole (stealing the grimoire) and ass (need to have sex with him)
THANK YOU!
The idea that they made the villain one-dimensional to avoid potentially making an abuser sympathetic reeks of insecurity and laziness. To make it worse, by making Stella cardboard cutout that dispenses abuse whenever the writers want to make the audience cry, they've portrayed an abuser in a completely unrealistic way. The same kinda goes for Crimson, Moxxie's father, but at least he can turn it off. The writers seem to want to portray abuse without portraying abusers, which is pretty exploitative and shitty.
Plus it's a tacit endorsrment of cheating on Stolas' part. His infidelity is not just excused, it's downright vindicated by the writers.
Remember when LooLoo Land made it clear Stolas is the problem? Now it's clear the writers don't intend to have him at fault for anything. It's all Stella's fault now.
Some abusers are completely unsympathetic in real life.
@@untappedpotential2761 Most abusers aren't as blatant as Stella. Which shows the writers really shouldn't be trying to tackle serious subject matter like abuse or infidelity.
They're clearly not equipped to handle it with the maturity it deserves. Like suicide.
If the leaks are to be believed, Millie's episode will try to tackle suicide...
*[BIG rant incoming]*
My issue with Stella wasn't that she was a bad person or didn't have a sympathetic/freudian excuse
My problem with Stella is the fact that, with the way they characterized her, it makes Stolitz *TOO SAFE*
What I mean by that is by removing nuance to this situation that could've had that, it actively makes the ship safer (and more likely endgame). Removing tension in the process
And it's not like I'm asking for nuance where it doesn't exist no- the show VERY WELL OCULD HAVE DONE IT!
We've seen multiple pictures of Stella/Stolas together with Octavia (atleast with a good look)
Stolas, before we knew about all *that*, had been cheating on her with Blitz, an imp (a lower class specimen)
This very well could've had nuance as it could've been the fallout of an arranged marriage where both parties tried to make it work, but failed; with Stella having it up to here with Stolas bullshit
Is she still in the wrong wmfor ordering a hit on her husband?? Oh absolutely
But it comes with the nuanced explanation
To me, the appeal of Stolitz comes from the fact that it's a dumpster fire trainwreck that you can't look away
These two are highly dysfunctional and have MAJOR relationship issues they need to sort out
But that dumpster fire is what I LIVE for
By making Stella a turbo bitch you've actively made that dumpster fire much safer and more prone for the audience to gun for
That's just a cheap move you know.
I doubt i could explain this any better if i tried. To me you hit the nail right on the head for why i think this episode just didn’t work, at least for me.
Helluva Boss is a comedy at the end of the day. It's certainly allowed to have some depth, but we should only expect so much.
@@realjoemavro as a fan of something you should hold it up to higher standards
I am a fan, therefore I will do such
Comedies I can be funny AND have depth
What they did with Stella is something I'd expect from a cartoon where they have a bully character with a shirt that says "BULLY"
Not a goddamm adult comedy dude
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby comedy elitism is when I want a show to so better
Lol okay
Im late, but this is LITERALLY the same thought process I had when seeing the first episode of season 2. It gives Stolas such an easy out, and while I don’t agree with Stella, or think she’s a good person, there was a huge opportunity to tell something more realistic, instead of just giving Stolas (and Stolitz) such an easy out. Thank you, for validating my feelings with this amazing rant.
To me, it feels like Stella is that fanfiction trope where a really mean, abusive character is written that way just to push the main ship together. I hate that.
It’s lazy writing.
this is the perfect way to describe it
I mean not really, the main ship is still flawed as is.
@@MrSpartan993 Not really like how is it?
@@meliable nah
They completely threw her away for Stolitz and I have a bad feeling this show is going to turn into Star vs The forces
Yeah, Stolitz has ruined a LOT of things about the show... Viv is hellbent on giving us this yaoi, borderline Stockholm syndrome ship when there are other people (especially Verosika) who would treat Blitz as an actual person rather than a sex object...
yeah i have a feeling that its going to turn into something like svtfoe and im not looking forward to this
@@n9_xiu Neither am I... I'll probably just take a break from the show until the next major appearance from Verosika.
That’s stretching it a bit, it could’ve been worse for all anyone knows?
Bro the show is barely getting started with the second season 💀
She had so much potential, I was ready for her to become the villian you love to hate, only for them to turn her into a screeching harpy wife and puppy-kicker trope. Stella sweetie I am SO SORRY
Stella: likes to torment and abuse Stolas.
Also Stella: gets upset when she learns that Stolas slept with an imp.
Stella should've been a Beatrice Sugarman, not a Joseph
Oof! That absolutely nails it tbh, couldn't have put it better
Even Joseph is better written than Stella, he is man of his time period, he was abusive but in his mind he wasn't an abuser or toxic, now compare that with the cuztheplotdemandsit evil that Stella is, she was ALWAYS bad, she NEVER loved or care of anyone and never expressed other feeling that wasn't "angry"
Joseph was written like a person
Stella is written like a plot device
Tbf, like Stella, Beatrice was characterized as constantly abusive in the early seasons of the show with zero redeeming qualities. It wasn’t until Season 4 that they expanded upon her, turning her into an incredibly nuanced character. Thanks to all this feedback from the fans, I am optimistic SpindleHorse could course-correct in the right direction.
@@Ironicuss This. Stella has become as shallow an antagonist as Beatrice was before we got Time's Arrow. Now Stella is an nuanced as Butterscotch.
Vivziepop's drawing skills are on point, but her writing needs A LOT of WORK.
She needs to learn writting and plot from Kouta Hirano sensei himself. Since Hellsing is 10 times more enjoyable than her work.
@@malikarsyasakani even I a retarded 16 year old could make better writing because ever since the third or fourth episode i was just wondering what the hell they were even doing!?
She needs to learn from Brandon Rogers, who she co-wrote with in Seasons 1 besides Ozzie's.
@@tylere.8436 , Yes, totally!
I agree with you, and her writing definitely needs alot of improvement.
Fun fact!! After s2 ep 4 her character gets even worse!!! :D
This video aged like wine, i swear
Exactly! “It’s Hell” is not an excuse. I’m not writing my beloved character Camilla do bad things or be an icky person just cuz she’s in Hell. You either have the good writing on par, or the writing not taking itself seriously.
Well we haven’t seen Stella’s brother yet so I believe that episode will give Stella more context when we understand her brother.
Even Striker is a good villain, his contrast between intense ambition, self loathing nature, and being very aware of his social class provides good contrast for IMP and has actual humanity albeit exploitative in sparing Moxxie and Millie to try to manipulate Blitzo.
Not really.
It doesn't make much sense for the moron to rant about 'Imp oppression' in Harvest Moon only to then turn around and play Basic Bitch for some Imp chucklefuck who was no different than the Overlords that Striker bitched about hating so much in his debut episode
My main beef with Stella is that according to S2Ep1 she was _always_ that bad. I could sort of understand her toxicity and hatred towards Stolas escalating the way it does as a result of his cheating and generally bad parenting. I'm not saying he deserves it at all or it's his fault, but it could've been a way to give both of them more depth by showing how his actions have affected her and their marriage. Maybe she could've been trying to make it work at first too despite knowing neither of them are interested. Or maybe she was always bitter while not _as awful,_ but Blitzø was a last straw. Instead in the flashback episode she's just shown to have always been a horrible bitch, even as a child, that he was literally forced to marry. I guess it makes sense as they're royalty but just having her born evil is so much more boring to me
Idk lemme know if I'm just chattin bullshit
Well she was clearly always bitter. She was not born evil, just raised to be spoiled and a brat.
@@Jdudec367 The circus episode literally has a pic of her strangling a puppy as a small child
@@yeethittter1285 I know but still
@@Jdudec367 Sounds pretty pure evil to me. The term "puppy kicker" isn't around for nothin
@@yeethittter1285 Well yeah but still, she was just raised to be that way. Joker is more straight forward and does not even have that excuse but he would probably kick puppies as hell he has murdered children before.
I mean to be fair she might seem like a terrible person but she doesn't have any free will. She sticks with him because she says "What will the family say?" It seems she messes with Stolas but she might be bitter because she has no choice. The difference is how they react. Stella reacts to unfair circumstances by lashing out at Stolas. Stolas quietly accepts it. She says she wants to mock Stolas but than says she's scared of what her parents will say. She might trying to give herself more athority but is really just angry cause she doesn't want to have a husband.
I hope they add that characterization into future episodes
To me, this is the only good characterization they could give her. She’s still a terrible person but atleast there’s a **reason**.
@@Ghost-yl1ytThat’s what most people want. No sob story, but a *reason,* a *motive.*
I think the writing for Stella was very deliberate, make her as mean as possible so that Stolas is "justified" in his self-absorbed, narcissistic behavior. It's actually a very common thing done in LGBT stories, where the main characters are made miserable and surrounded by mean people who don't validate them with the writing emphasizing emotion so that them going around been selfish a-holes can be presented as a good thing
But why?
My thoughts, exactly
@@frankkennedy6388 So they can indulge in selfish, self-gratifying behaviour and not feel like shitty people for doing it. They can paint themselves as the victims while being selfish and self-indulgent. It's a very Narcisstic mindset that requires the victim complex to absolve them of any accountability.
The trope stops Stolas from being an abuser despite his unlikeable actions. Since assholes can still manage to be victims that isn’t an impossible thing to portray.
Thing is both the show itself and viewers don’t know that could be the case.
@@ArtisanAsteroid It annoys me because Stolas' selfish actions destroyed his home life and Octavia has suffered for it. Then he continues to flirt with Blitzo rather than look for Octavia so we can have the comedic "Brendan Ragers" plot.
The showrunners wants us to root for them despite them being objectively horrible people. The show isn't interested in a subjective morality of right and wrong, it just wants to paint the characters they want the audience to sympathise with as being "in the right" despite how selfish and destructive their actions are.
This is also why Loona can get away with abusing Blitzo and suffer no consequences, where Stella abusing Stolas is painted as iredeemably horrible. Because the writers want us to like Loona and hate Stella. So Stella's abuse is demonised while Loona's is handwaved because trauma.
I don't think Stella is at all a main villian, she's a side villian for now as the main characters cause conflicts between themselves.
That doesn't excuse her from being a completely one-dimensional caricature of a villain, besides writers already proved they could do better. I like the show as it is, but even I was a little disappointed with Stella's "character progression".
@@aquamarina5216 I think it does, because up to this point, she doesn't need to explain even more. She's an outside force that pushes in every once and awhile. A character who stops by once and while doesn't need to be fleshed out as much.
Tbh this show bring a new side villain in every episode. Which one is the main villain then?
Her brother is now the main threat in the divorce, they can't even write Stella one dimensional baddie in a compelling way.
Magneto: I did it cause the Nazis and hateful bitter people killed my family so I took a stand for Mutants everywhere
Vaas: I did it cause I fell down a rabbit hole of incest and drugs only to realize we are the same
Baldur: I did it cause my mother took my ability to feel and I went insane, I resented her my whole life and decided to enact it onto everyone
Harley Quinn: I did it cause I was manipulated by a mad man and trapped in a world of abuse, but I pushed through and found my freedom
Stella: I did it cause everyone wanted to ship my husband with an imp and make me look bad so the writers copied fanfictions and used them to make my evil lol
Stella being a one-note stereotype now is even worse because basically every other villain (except for Verosika maybe, but she won't be a big threat anytime soon) is just an asshole with insecurities at this point. It's just so much less interesting.
This is a problem across the board. Viv and her team of writers always TELL us how good characters are off screen but never show it in episodes. It becomes search to livestreams, Twitter, or any other source to figure out characters.
(Ex. Her recent paragraphs about Millie's character)
This happens to Stella, and if anything, the first episode has a LOT of plot holes that could render the first season as a separate universe entirely.
you perfectly described what the issue with stella is writing-wise as well as provided a much more compelling motivation for her that ultimately makes her a much more interesting character than what the writers were aiming for. all in all, this is a rly great video! loved it
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks this.
When the show first started, I thought this would be a Hera and Zeus situation. Where Zeus is bad for cheating but Hera takes it one step further.
Except we see her hate Stolas not blitz, which made me think she was a more complicated character, or not as she appeared to be.
I personally felt that by making her the cliche abusive ex ruins her character potential, now I’m not saying that Stella was never a bad person just that this could sort of a final straw for her.
Not only that but this makes stolas come out clean, blitz seems to be the only one with real potential and is it so wrong to want a relationship that’s complicated for both parties or starts of rocky.
Making Stella an abusive ex is just an excuse to have stolas cheating justified.
People assume that Stella being mad at the cheating would instantly make her a good person, you could still have a villain who goes to far with her, she could still be the abusive rich girl who treats those beneath her as bad.
I’ve seen people make fun of people for complaining about the show writing, but people complain about bigger shows without much backlash.
I’ve seen to many gay and straight hallmark movies, who do the cheat of your partner if their abusive cliche.
Now for some reason when people see people complaining about Stella character potential and that she should be more mad at the cheating or cheating with someone of lower class is because they don’t believe men can’t be abused but that’s not what their saying.
Their just upset that they used the oldest cliche in the book to justify cheating.
In fact I bet if this situation was reversed that stolas and blitz were a lesbian couple and Stella was a man that they’d be jumping viziepop for this portrayal while using the same argument I’m using now.
The thing is Stella being terrible and her having a terrible relationship with Stolas was hinted at since season 1. It didn’t come out of nowhere. Season 1 Stella was more upset that Stolas slept with a imp then the fact that he cheated. Then there’s the speech Stolas gave to Octivq. He stammered a lot to try not protect his daughter but, from what I got is he didn’t exactly marry Stella out of love. Then there’s the family photos. They appear to be happy with some tense body language.
It might be cliché but, its not like stolas and Blitzo are happy together. There is still lots of issues they have to go through. It would take awhile before they even get together
The way I had assumed Stella's situation was was essentially, she gets into a marriage with Stolas that neither of them want to be in (I always assumed it was arranged, they're aristocrats) but sticks it out despite her not liking Stolas (and him obviously being gay) for the sake of their reputation among her rich peers. This made her anger very understandable when his affair with someone of a lower class was revealed in just about the most humiliating way possible, in front of her friends. I interpreted her anger as "I have dealt with this miserable marriage for so long for the sake of our reputation, and you just humiliate me like this without even thinking about that?!" Hence her getting mad that he slept WITH AN IMP, IN THEIR BED, as opposed to just him cheating in general.
Like obviously none of that makes any of her actions following the cheating justified, but Stolas did absolutely wrong her, based on the info we got in season 1, and it was a nuanced situation. Season 2 though seems intent on dumbing that down as much as possible into "Stolas cheating was completely justified, because Stella was an abusive bitch the whole time!!!" to make Stolitz seem like a less morally grey pairing (which sucks to me, because the only reason I found that pairing interesting was the moral greyness, and I know I'm not the only one).
It’s seems Stella just cares for her reputation then the actual relationship it’s self , and it will be embarrassing to her that her husband that cheated on her with a lowest rank of the hierarchy .
There is so much I wanted to know about Stella, I was instantly interested into her character when she's outright putting Stolas on his ass for what he had done.
Like you have stated, season two really butchered her character, like the paintings on the walls. Season one, the family are spending the day together, all three of them seem to be having a great time. Was it all fake? Maybe, or even they must've at least tolerated each other for Octavia's sake. But in season two, there is a portrait of the couple miserable... Completely debunking everything the fans have speculated.
Even Octavia says in season one "I want to go home, but home *doesn't feel like home anymore*… *You ruined it* " and even in the flashback when not only did she called out for BOTH of her parents, but she called for her *MOTHER* first. Also, keep in mind, just because Stella gets mad telling Stolas to 'deal' with Octavia doesn't mean that she hates her child in any way. She could've just had a bad day.
But, season two yet again throws that in the trash, as on their argument on the balcony. Stolas says "I tried for so many years to make it comfortable for us, to have this family" and "the ONLY reason I have endured your *constant* insults and cruelty, is *for that girl to have a normal life* " … Again just saying that Stella is really the one to blame, that what Stolas does is fine because, hey, at least its NOTHING compared to Stella.
Stella is only written to excuse any bad thing Stolas does, the audience is just meant to see this in black and white. Because I'm sure Viv doesn't want people hating her gay UWU baby boy.
Also, we still don't know the relationship between Stella and Octavia.
Yes, exactly!! You nailed it: they threw away just about everything set up about the household purely to make the gay ship (the way a lot of post-Tumblr girls fetishise and infantilise gay men is so so gross but I digress) look spotless and 1000% the right choice, no conflicts. Only... conflict is necessary in order to make an actual story. I think that's why the ship dynamic feels so flat and boring now.
@@Truffs_Stuff Because of this, the show actually drained me to the core. I wasn't even excited once the new episode dropped, the first thing I said wasn't "wow, I have been waiting so long for this to come out! I can't wait to watch it"... No, it was "another Moxxie centric episode. I doubt we will know anything about Millie".
Even it seemed to be a good episode but I was just watching it with absolute no interest or passion like I used to. It really tells us how they mucked up their own storytelling.
I think its once the episode when Octavia and Loona was going to be the focus that completely drained me. There is an obvious pattern for all the female characters being plot devices. Which sucks, but what sucks more is that Viv intentionally made all these gals interesting or having them as somewhat main characters (Loona or Millie) only to put them back on the sideline.
People who write that Stella does not need motivation and background as a villain are simply trying in every possible way to justify the most obvious lazy writing from the authors. The problem is that Stella even as a one-dimensional villain does not work, because besides the fact that she has absolutely NO charisma or villainous charm, like hundreds of other one-dimensional villains, and often from children's cartoons, her actions also make absolutely no sense. What's the point of her killing Stolas if his cheating didn't really hurt her? To get status and money? She already had all this before her marriage to Stolas. Why is she so offended by his cheating, if she never loved him? Because he cheated on her with a demon and this somehow denigrates their name? In that very episode, she openly said shit about Stolas in front of the demonic nobility, so some of his shitty actions do not affect her status in any way. Oh yeah, in the second episode of the first season, remember the line in Stolos' song "I used to think love would be fun"? Why was this line if there was never any love? And why does Octavia in the same episode say that when she was a child, her parents did not hate each other, if, as it turned out, there was not a single day that Stella did not hate Stolas? By the way, if you think about why all this farce with a marriage of convenience for the demonic nobility, if the main goal is to give birth to heirs? Why couldn't Stolas be simply forced to impregnate Stella or some other demoness so that an heir would be born? In this case, that same moronic excuse "THIS IS HELL AND THEY ARE DEMONS" would work. And the worst thing is that there was a potential to make an interesting antagonist, but it was washed down the pipe. And you know, Stella, even as an abuser, simply doesn’t work, because cutting her out of the series and inserting “I AM A VILLAIN, HATE ME” in her place would not radically change anything.
She does not cause fear, some kind of horror, a feeling of tension or manipulation, like Mother Gothel, for example, she just infuriates with her endless hysteria and stupidity. The most boring, one-dimensional, flat, cardboard and unwritten character I've ever seen
I definitely disagree in the “no charisma or villainous charm” department. As for her actions: She called the hit on Stolas because his cheating does affect both their reputations a lot more than her gossiping about him to her friends would. She’s offended at the cheating for the same reason. He thought love would be fun as a concept but obviously we see his hopes were dashed when he was forced to marry Stella, someone can hear about an have a general idea about love before they actually do fall in love themselves. Clearly Stolas and Stella were at least able to keep their unhappiness to themselves when Via was around hence why she believes they didn’t hate each other.
Lastly, the season just started, this was technically only Stella’s first major role, we are most definitely getting more later on. You can have ur opinion but at least wait a little longer before making your final judgement.
@@psychomagalor4902 How does it affect? This was not shown or indicated anywhere in the entire series, except for the mockery of Asmodeus, which is again strangely woven, because before that, Stolas quite openly flirt with Blitz in front of the entire hellish population. And how does it work at all, that a vivid demonstration that their marriage is unhappy and open pouring of shit does not affect the reputation of the WHOLE family, that is, including Stella, but bed comforts with a imp affect, which the same Asmodeus indulges in - no?
But wasn’t Stolas already in love with Blitz at that moment, which was categorically vividly hinted at by his constant blushing?
Stella clearly would not hide her (absolutely unreasonable and lazily invented) hatred of Stolas in front of her daughter, since, firstly, the voice actress confirmed that Stella was a bad mother, and secondly, in the same episode, she yelled at almost the whole castle about how she hates Stolas and what rubbish he is. Octavia wouldn't have heard that? Or is she so deaf, blind and dumb that she does not notice the obvious tension between her parents? The excuse that she is a teenager does not work, because, you will be surprised, but children usually notice this and it affects them very much, I tell you this as a child who, from the age of seven, watched his parents quarrel, which ultimately led to a divorce, when I was ten. And if I noticed this at the age of 7-10, then Octavia at 17 also had to guess at least something. For what reason does she blame her father for the destruction of the family and home, if Stella, who never hid this, was always the instigator of scandals?
Yes, this is Stella's first major role, but it was more than enough to showcase her as a character, and yes, I might still have some hope if it wasn't for that idiotic baby photo that literally tries to tell us that she was evil from birth for absolutely no reason. And what more can they show us after that? And I really don’t understand what the charisma and villainous charm of a character consists of, who just yells and hysteria for absolutely no reason.
And I'm ready to predict your words: "If you don't like this show, just don't watch it." I’ll tell you a secret, I won’t watch it anymore, because the first two episodes of the second season quite clearly showed me what I didn’t notice or didn’t want to notice in the first season, namely how average this show is, and if we compare its quality with the fiercest popularity and hype, then it is mediocre and lazily written. But if I don't like something, it doesn't mean that I'll keep my mouth shut or that I don't have the right to express my opinion about it. I have, and I will express my opinion in any form convenient for me
It also completely topples down the moral grey area the show had, Stolas now seems like a saint for cheating on her, Octavia seems selfish for no understanding Stolas's pain, and Blitz seems like an idiot for no caring enough about Stolas.
It feels like they changed her character to copy fanfics and please Stoliz shippers
@@gamerstheater1187 Yes! You are absolutely right, if before that it seemed that the show in terms of characters and their development could go into some kind of gray morality, now all this potential has been lost, and this is a typical black and white story, but in the style of yaoi fanfiction. And with such a meager script and character writing, how is this show so popular and positioned as very deep and adult?
@@ОльгаГузняева First of all, he only ever openly flirted with Blitzo in front of a crowd of Imps, not the entire hellish population, hence why it wouldn’t be that big a deal compared to if he had done it in front of others of his kind. Plus the tease showed Asmodeus and Fizzarolli is also gonna cause some drama, so in that particular instance he may end up being a hypocrite, but it still shows that there is definitely the risk of higher-class demons finding out and making them a laughing stock because of it. Stella outcrying about Stolas or there unhappy marriage would not be something that affects the entire family, mainly Stolas, she would still be a respected member of high society(some gossip to her friends wouldn’t affect that), whereas her husband choosing to cheat on her with a low-class Imp would definitely make her seem pathetic as well for allowing that to happen.
When they said she was a bad mother they almost certainly meant she was neglectful rather than abusive. If she was abusive to Via, she definitely wouldn’t have harbored any hatred toward her dad whatsoever. The only time we see Stella talk about Stolas is once when Via is asleep down the hall and she’s only casually talking on the phone and another where she’s angry about him cheating when Via definitely hears it because of the yelling. So clearly Stella did in fact hide her hatred well enough likely because she was hardly ever even there for Via. It’s one thing when one’s parents always loudly argue, but it’s another thing when one is almost purposely neglectful and the other just sucks it up and deals with it in silence.
You say she was evil from birth for “no reason” and don’t see where they could take her after that. I say they could very well give us a reason for why she is the way she is when we inevitably meet her family. Most, if not all people, are born selfish and bratty, and it’s up to the parents or guardians to keep them from continuing down that path in the future. It’s likely Stella was not given that sort of care and just had her worst qualities enabled by her family. Obviously it likely won’t be a reason that excuses her or makes her sympathetic, but I definitely believe there’s more they can explore with her as a villain to show us exactly why she is the way she is. It may not end up being the most complex thing in the world, but I think there’ll end up being more of a reason as to why she is as horrible as she is.
I definitely can’t control what you watch and what you don’t, nor what your opinion on some things are. If anything I’m responding to you simply to express my opinion and explain exactly why I feel that way. I doubt this will outright convince you to change your opinion but hopefully I’ve explained my viewpoint well enough that you understand where I’m coming from.
She was tormenting him before he cheated- I have a theory he might have done something other then cheating honestly, she was written *horribly* so many ways they could of made her a amazing character- If he didn't do anything before then *why would she still be mean to him at the time* its so confusing for me and I'm sure for alot of other people too! Also ima mention that stolas and Stella are still on talking terms because he tried to talk to her while she was on the phone- and also I like to point out he asked her to go check up on octavia so that means she would at least Sometimes because if he knew she wouldn't he wouldn't ask her too, octavia also yelled "MOMMMYYY DADDDYYYY" so she yelled for her mother too and I think thats important to point out 👀
The problem with how the show is written, outside of the flashback, all of Stella being horrible to Stolas came AFTER the affair (which he keeps going along with). The flashback was there to justify Stolas' cheating with the benefit of hindsight.
@Planet Zoidstar they basically baby stolas at this point 😭😭😭 they're like "look at our uwu gay bird boy!" When he's supposed to be a cool owl man that has awesome cool powers and having an affair 😭 like damn at least show us Something he does wrong!
@@SELEN0PH0B1A Exactly. At this point the writers have given up writing Stolas as a morally ambiguous character. He's basically become the main character and they are not going to depict him in a bad light after we saw his saccharine childhood. They could have given us a morally grey story, but they chose black and white for cheap, emotional tricks.
@Planet Zoidstar thank God for the trailer we just got, it looks better than the first 2 eps of s2! I really hope they don't mess up the characters even worse 😭 I have hope
Might be a bit out there, but I've wondered about if there might be more to her just being mean for the sake of being mean. If she was hurt in some way... other than being forced into a marriage against her will, under the exact purpose of getting pregnant by what is essentially a complete stranger. Which, to be fair, is a pretty sh*tty situation.
Might be his indifference hurt her too. She complains about how he doesn't react to her in bed, how she has to do all the work, how he's a boring stiff. Well, it seems Stolas, unlike most of the cast in Helluva Boss, is purely gay. He just doesn't find her attractive, engaging, in any way interesting. But did he TELL her this at some point? If he didn't, she's laboring under the idea that Stolas is just finds her disgusting for reasons she doesn't understand. Maybe she was frustrated and angry because of that. She's prideful, we know that. Maybe Stolas's "putting up with her" felt like condescending bullsh*t to her.
I don't actually think that that's the case, admittedly. For now, it seems Stella is a one-note bad guy with little direct impact on the plot.
I would've liked it if the reason she was upset was because of her rep and because she feels betrayed she doesn't have feelings for him but still feels upset that he ruined everything
I hate how we've never seen how Stella interacts with Octavia, her daughter. Like so much wasted opportunity there. She could've still been a bad person who wanted to be friends with her daughter rather than a mother and that would've been interesting to see.
Imagine if Stella had a reason to vie for their child's attention and even was deviously and maliciously cunning in how she did it. Mainly because she knows the child is important, but not Stolas. Perhaps even succeeding despite Stolas and the audience knowing better that Stella only sees her daughter as a tool. That would be a good way to make her compelling and incredibly evil and very easy to dislike in the same way that they would want without throwing away making her a good villain.
I hate her as much as Stolas. It is clear that Viziepop changed some things along the way to further villainize it
Nobody notices this. Everyone just wipes Stolas, but they forget that in the first episodes he was really the jerk of the situation, and they forget that he lives harassing Blitzo.
Blitzo really didn't feel right around Stolas. Viziepop only knows how to villainize characters for no reason. And Stolas' ex is the typical crazy ex girlfriend who wants to break up with the toxic gay couple. Sounds like those garbage gacha stories in 2017
I'm going to be completely honest: I haven't seen a singular person who "wiped" Stolas so far. Just because people understand Stolas more overtime because we get contact doesn't mean the writing is bad. It's actually a sign of talent to get people to like a character who kind of sucks. (Also, side tangent, the implied context of this episode is that Stolas harassed Blitz because he thought that's what Blitz wanted...)
I do agree that it's a shame that Stella is a 1-dimensional character now (I mean not really because I find her so fun, but talking from a writing perspective here), however we don't know her like we do Stolas. I'm assuming in time she'll be developed into a full character, just as Blitz and Stolas have. Assuming all characters will be ocean-deep at first now the show has shown they're capable of it is confusing. We need to know the stereotype of the character before we subvert it.
This entire episode just kind of pulled me out of it multiple times. The balcony scene honestly being the worst because it's just Every cliche shade abusive Partner story trope Thrown until one 2 minutes seen
If Stolas was still a villain Him and Stella would be so good together but it just shows Stolas could be using blitz for his body
Honestly the fact that stolas and Stella were forced to marry just makes the fact she's not written well worse. Like, you'd expect that since they were both forced into it they'd both be equally miserable, so why would she care so much about her reputation with stolas?
I think it would have been better if stolas did actually initially choose to marry stella for a specific reason [ like maybe have her strong rage be a reason he married her like he initially thought she'd be able to protect their eventual kid especially since the actual stolas from the ars goetia apparently rarely actually fought in battle so having a romantic partner who can fight would be a plus for him or even just that they were initially close platonically but were pressured to marry by their families cuz "ooh girl and boy close must be love!" ] Or hell, if not that just at least give us some development about her character like hints to her past, even something as small as just a quick sentence where she goes "yeah i learned this from my parents" would be acceptable!
Stella: am bad
Fandom: ok nice, why u bad
Stella: husband cheat no good reputation
Fandom: ok make sense, how u act
Stella : (angry bird noises)
Fandom: ok uhm what makes you interesting ?
Stella: .. uhhhhh
And that’s the issue
Stella was in the right to be angry at Stolas cheating on her. Sure it was an arranged marriage to birth a precautionary heir to the royal family, but she didn’t have much of a choice either. At least she’s willing to attend to her royal duties, unlike Stolas who tends to abandons it in favor of imp cock. But the writers had to use the whole mega bitch trope on Stella which you can see a lot of angsty Yaoi Fan Fiction. Worst of all, we barely get to see any interaction between Stella and Octavia. They’re screentime together was sacrificed just so Stella can have another arguement on Stolas cheating on her and Stolas doing the whole Yaoi sex s**t with Blitzo.
To me, her character assisignation RUINED most of the show for me (because Stolas is in so much of it), I liked that Stolas was a compex man who was blined by his own desires so much so that he embaraased his wife and partially subjects his daughter to screaming and arguing. I liked when the show was about a man who needed to fix his royal ego/pay more attention to the cracks in his family before its to late, to a man who just needs to stop the evil bird lady and live happly ever frikin after! Stella is so god dang over the top in this episode its insulting!!!! (Stolas sings his feelings) (Stella walks up yelling at him for no god dang reason) “TF ARE U DOING!?” (Stolas) “relfecting…” (Stella, getting even more angry) “WELL STOP!!!” OMG why not just have her hear his breathing and tear out his lungs!? Shes so mad for no reason!! CHILDREN would not talk like this! “what are u doing? reflecting? NOT IN MY FRIKIN HOUSE DIE!!”
Why does she hate bim? Because shes the bad guy. Jack Horner is more fun, kind, and interesting and neuonce than she is!!! a family movie made a villian intentionally evil, more funny, and well written than a mature- (oh im sorry) “mature” show can!!!
I dont care abiut Stolas anymore, hes just a guy who will either win or loose, he wont improve like a person.
(To quote Nostakgia Critic) “Its not about u bettering yourself, its just somebadguy out to get u, and you found him! problem solved!!” 🥲🤨😖😓
Stella is already in a royal status. Her brother Andrealphus is a Marquis which while not on the same level as a King, Duke, or Prince is still of royal status. There are 72 members of the Ars Goetia have status of King, Duke, Prince, Marquis, Vice Count, Knight, and presidents. There are 9 kings within the Ars Goetia, the only ones we have seen thus far are Paimon, and Asmodeus, though being a sin Asmodeus does fall under a different category.
Cannonically as far as we have been told, Stolas isn't homosexual. His queer, which means he could like woman too though it might be lesser so than man. Bit his first into to Stella was seeing her strangling a dog and likely after that they never met till close to the wedding- furthering any romance. Once revealed Stella was cruel and mocking? There was just no romance as Stolas can't be into a woman that cruel.
If Blitzo was a woman? Dollars to donuts Stolas would still be intrested as he romantized his "first friend"
Frustrating how people think he's gay because they think queer=gay, even though it just means not straight. Lol I feel like Viv would have used gay when referring to him by now if he was, but every time I've seen her refer to him she says queer.
@@DeathEXE Queer is a bit rarer used of a term in LGBT so I understand most people don't know it's means "not straight". Stolas was listed as queer in all his bios but lately they all have been changed to gay so.. I dunno. Maybe Vizie did change her mind. X"D
My little problem with Stella
In movies, series, books, novels etc, to me there are 3 types of characters
1: Characters who deserve the story and the story deserves them
2: Characters who don't deserve the story
3: The story that doesn't deserve these characters.
Now Stella is obviously number 2. It's like those fanfiction, especially of Yaoi stories where the villain is just plain evil with zero characteristics. They don't show us how Stella treats Octavia, no episode 2 of season 1 is just how many moms and dads reacts. It's not all the time the two will be there for the kid. Also normally, Stella would never say all those things about Stolas because the family is there, and she's giving her family a bad name about herself. It would have made much sense if Octavia lived with her mother and Stella tries to have Stolas banished from the family. Now my biggest problem is this: In stories the villain always has motives behind their scheme: Scar wanting to take over Pride land, Ursula wanting to be the ruler of the underwater, The evil queen wanting to be fairest of one of all, but Stella has no motives. So far we just see her say "I wanna kill my husband". They even had to introduce Andrealphus to be the mastermind. Like why? Even the Devil (please don't read this if you're a kid or if you don't believe in God) wants to do everything he can to turn humans away from God to be ruler of the earth. What villain has no motives behind their schemes? It's like they just wrote Stella to be this meanie so that Stolas can look like an angel, I mean seriously, she's born this evil? Like a villain without motives is not enjoyable at all like her. If she had more motives and other qualities, that would have been a major improvement for Helluva boss. But no, she's evil. The reason we all enjoy Disney, Pixar or Dreamworks etc villains is because they have this charisma and how they execute their schemes but Stella has none, and do Goeshas accept the killing of one partner in an arranged marriage? I'm just asking but yeah. Stella deserves better writing. I feel even Octavia, Millie, Loona and Verosika deserve better writing that just being ladies with hot temper and issues. So that's it. That's my problem with Stella, maybe in the future episodes though, they will solve it....I don't know, one can only hope. Thanks for reading this long comment, sorry for rambling.
Yeah I mostly agree with this I didn't think she was going to be that complicated but I would have at least preferred her to be a little more interesting then what we got hopefully that changes.
Very well thought out and respectful video! I don't get why people have to be so salty over you daring to have a critical opinion on Stella.
No one is salty in the comments they just putting out facts lol. What did you technically agree with that she said
@@dimontebaker4439 I wouldn't claim "nobody" is salty considering how things have been in the comment section so far.
People have been saying stuff like "you clearly haven't seen the video" and "you're just critisizing the charater because she female"
Check the comments and read through them for a bit! For every reasonable person there's another that's just being rude.
@@yeetneet calling it out doesn't mean they're being salty but we have different opinions
@@dimontebaker4439 I mean, hey power to you! I'll agree to disagree and move on ^u^
@@yeetneet good
It's doubtful Stella was ever meant to be the main villain. It's likely that a higher power than Stolas will try to kill him next. Or at least someone with equal status as him and a bigger threat than Striker was; will attempt to kill him. Most likely Andrealphus, Stella's brother or even Paimon, Stolas's possibly homophobic father. But Stella was never meant to be the main villain and she wouldn't have been a good one since her only motivation was to torment him because she's an evil bitch.
si, parece Odalia, tambien atormentaba a sus hijos y su esposo.
Every time I remember Stella I have to apologize to women in this show... They get sidelined so hard it kills me
The fact that people are triggered is really funny. Y’all act like this show is your meaning of existence.
Agreed! People on the internet act like you can't like a show and realize it has flaws at the same time.
That's an extreme way to think about it. How dare ppl rightfully call out the critics inconsistencies and factual point out the problems with their critique. Calling them triggered is just a childish way to look at it
@@dogsoldier123 Most of the people here haven't even been factual when giving her crituqe. They've just been shitting on her and calling her names.
[Edit; Keep in mind I said most. Not everyone who dares disagree with this video is invalid. I can get where some people are comming from, but her points about the writing are not pontless or invalid.
If we want this show to be great we can't just blindly blow sunshine up Viv's ass. Even if the show is not over, having feedback and crituqe like this is helpful for improving the writing in the future!
@@dogsoldier123 Have you seen this comment section?
It really is to alot of ppl
Unrelated: I love her design. If it had a few very very small adjustments it’d be the best design in the entire show. She just looks so pretty
I like the idea of her being bad because of her family's influence, because it was shown that she was mean even when she was a kid. We know she has an 'arrogant brother' too, so maybe their parents forced them to be tough and mean as kids so they could survive the royal life.
Since royals showing their true feelings is mocked (Charlie getting laughed at and Stolas getting dissed by Ozzie), Stella could be putting up a facade as a social self defence, and using Stolas as a shield. It's like when people who were bullied become the bullies, they know how it's like and they would do anything to be accepted and not go through that again, even if it means putting someone else through the same thing.
And everyone hates Stella, but defend Loona, despite Loona being mean like Stella.
There is a possibility there could be a future episode to season two that can give us a more character development for stella, there are certainly fan art & comics that did that... so can the series too.
I actually hated Stella from the start and after the reveal she placed a hit on Stolas I thought she was irredeemable and probably going to be a major antagonist. Even tho I hated her, I did like the fan content of Stella and Stolas having a good relationship prior (mainly for angst) and respected people who liked her. When the reveal happened I was happy in a way to be right for predicting it, but then a wash of “Oh, this is her whole character isn’t it…” came over me. I mainly feel bad for the people that liked her.
Yeah I agree they could've done more with Stella. I heard they originally were going to have a better arc for her but because people were rooting for Stolitz so much they ended up scrapping it. I don't know if there's truth to this, it is simply something I heard from somewhere so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. Though watching the episode she had the most screentime in... It really seems like they were trying to shoehorn in just how bad she is.
If it were me I'd have done more to show that Stella, herself, is scared. More specifically, of her older brother Andrealphus. She cites his name meaning his opinion clearly matters to her. I want a Stella episode where she deals with similar experiences to what she put Stolas through. Not to completely dissolve or wave away what she's done, but to show it's not just coming out of nowhere. Maybe have Andre around her making comments. How she's a disgrace since as the wife it is her only job to produce an heir and keep her husband satisfied in every aspect of their marriage. Because in royal families if the husband cheats, blame typically is placed upon the wife for not being appealing enough or exciting enough.
Don't make her a sad villain, but make her one that makes sense.
I have never watched the show, but I've heard about it, and this was one of the most hated characters in the fandom, I can see why
You make very good points! Stella's character does seem one dimensional and just lazy, the key to writing good villains is to give them a good enough motivation and personality so the fans can get hooked on to them
Stella does a absolutely EMBARRASSING job at providing this, she just feels like every stereotypical villain, and that's sad, she had potential, but the writers just wasted her
I think it's too early to write Stella as wasted. Literally decided after choices made in just one episode? That's pretty harsh and impatient. I think we can't fully judge Stella before we meet her brother. In s2 ep1 we find out that she has a brother and Stolas thinks he is arrogant. Vivzzie has future plans for Stella and possibly more depth. We just need to wait before getting hyperfixed on like 2 episodes because of long waiting and go overboard with judgment.
Still you can't just change a character to be a total bitch and expect people to justfised tourment towards another character even though that character had cheated on her.
At this point we can't justified either of these characters because of terrible writing and they are just awful characters.
Season 2 fall flat.
Except that it’s kind of impossible to make her feel nuanced after this. She’s introduced as a violent and abusive child and then tells Stolas she likes to abuse him and make him feel bad just because. adding depth to her later on would feel like a random character turn, even if planned
I agree. That first in ep in this current season is only a hint to whats to come for Stollas, their daughter octavia and possible his colleagues, as well.
They made her an abusive bitch who hurted the shows' little gay owl baby man. The fans are the same people who watch shits like Steven Universe and Owl House, so there is no way they would give her any chances.
0:58 Stolas' sexuality hasn't been confirmed with all the words yet, but I don't think it can as he's only been shown to be attracted to one character the entire series so far and the way things are going he won't be attracted. by anyone else. Also him not being attracted to Stella could be for the reason already explained, the marriage of both is arranged
Stella didn’t feel romantic interest in Stolas either. She’d rather just spend her time tormenting him.
@@goddessbettyd5614 Of course? Their marriage was arranged? What did you expected? That it'd be like one of those romantic movies where the characters get married through an arranged marriage and slowly fall in love? She was unhappy as well
@@brgirl4493 Makes Stoles wishes he’d *never* marry Stella in the first place.
@@goddessbettyd5614 She never wanted to marry him as well
@@brgirl4493 So her brother arranged their marriage so he can watch his sister tormenting Stolas time & time again.
I was hoping, at the very least. That yes they were arranged, and she knew he was gay, but at one point they were even friends and had a child to keep up appearances, but they still loved the child. And Stolas cheated so he could have what he wanted, something more, and that broke Stella to make her have those outbursts. And yet
YESSS I agree!! I don't know why people brush off her lazy writing, it almost feels like they're making excuses, and for what? lmao
you have a new subscriber!! ^^
"It's set in hell" is fast becoming a tiresome excuse for bad writing in this universe lol
@@KotoCrash Yeah, it's spammed so much you can find it in this comment section too!
The worst part is “it’s hell” is actually said in the show to justify lazy world building
Stella was never a morally good character, but you can understand why Stolas' affair made her so angry. This episode however, tries soooooo hard to make you root for 'Stolitz' while also making Stella even more of a cruel, hateful person.
It robs all the nuance and accountability from Stolas and Blitzo, by demonising Stella they are basically putting Stolas, the cheater, the neglectful father, in the right. They took the easy way out by turning Stella into an R-rated Evil Disney Queen, so you can feel justified in rooting for the damaged woobie Stolas.
S1 E2, Via talked about how “her parents didn’t use to hate each other”
one thing i came up with is that stella's not goetia by blood, and because of that doesn't have much actual sway in the dynamics of family relations even if she's married into the royal family. perhaps it has to be stolas who makes the call on divorcing a wife he was arranged to marry, and she doesn't actually get to say anything about her place in it because she's not goetia; but public opinion of their social circles plays into it too. its not secret the goetia and higher-ruling classes are basically celebrities, and like celebrities, there's opinions about them that they need to monitor and tamper in order to not lose favour or power with the rest of hell. when an arranged marriage between a prince and his wife is evidently going very badly, that catches people's attention, and might push the royals to encourage stolas to divorce her willingly, while she still maintains dignity and connection with them in the long run (through custody rights over Octavia being an heir of her ans stolas, i don't know). so her publicly talking about how badly their marriage is going forces their social circles to Notice, and eventually claw its way up to the top where Paimon takes note and tells stolas to divorce her. she loses the power that came from being stolas's wife but maintains a connection through Octavia, and through this her family stays connected to it all - which i believe is what Andrealphus wants.
thats a very convoluted idea and doesn' excuse the frankly terrible writing of her that is clearly just a gimmick to make the audience feel sorry for stolas (which i have Opinions about) but to me in my head it humanises and explains her actions and behaviours and possible motivations, especially if you consider an avenue that her brother is trying to use her to gain things from the goetia for himself. stella is shown to be somewhat naive and not totally comprehending of the consequences of her actions and while i dislike the suggestion that she's genuinely stupid, i think its interesting if she's got a tendency to shout first think later, and people have taken advantage of this, especially her brother (who i see as a smarmy manipulative creep, personally). as such, he tells her how to make it look like the marriage is failing (cos it is) and gain favour with the goetia family through pity while maintaing a familial connection that retains some of their status and allows them access they didn't have before the marriage. however her personal feelings about being cheated on (which is essentially stolas throwing away EVERYTHING she worked for to gain favour and appreciation with the royals purely because he can afford to act to his desires but she cannot, and she was forced into this marriage as much as he was, and especially if you consider she was needed to create an heir as well, it paints a picture of her essentially being raised as a bejewelled brood mare that was only good for making connections and getting her family up higher with no concern for her wants or wellbeing; so yeah if my arranged husband suddenly slept with a lower class citizen for no reason other than personal enjoyment after i'd been forced to rub shoulders with royals and try to be appealing to them for years in an unhappy marriage, i'd be pissed too), she arranges for stolas to personally be assassinated because she's just so angry - andrealphus didn't know about striker at all until he kidnapped stolas, and it takes his reasoning for stella to call him off and keep stolas alive - because if the news comes out that stolas dies for good, especially as a result of her planning, she will genuinely never be allowed to be seen in public again and will be horrifically disgraced for life, which andrealphus cannot have after it's taken this long to get here and he's so close to getting the poiwer he craves.
again, really needlessly convoluted idea, but its what ive come up with to make it make sense in my head and to make stella a more understandable character to me. her actions aren't excusable but they are understandable if you look at her like this, or even something like it. (also im tired of women being the bad guys between gay male relationships and also i like bitchy female characters i think they're fun so i want to make her understdnable in her behaviours while retaining her nasty mean streak that i really enjoy watching).
sorry i know this video is now 9 months old but stella is Important to me personally ^^;
Honestly, I think they only made Stella this huge of a bitch so that they could direct people's sympathy to Stollas. Now, Stollas is an interesting character, but I honestly prefer him much more at the pilot. What I'm trying to say is, Stollas behaviour was wrong, and continues to be wrong. He is also a bad person in this scenario, but it appears that all his nuance was completely thrown out of the window! Stella sole purpose seems to revolve around being the object that suddenly makes Stollas an innocent victim and encourages him to do things that put his family at risk... If he was more like his pilot self, an actual "bad" person, this would be so much more interesting. It wouldn't appear like Stellas existence was a mean for Stollas to be forgiven for his wrong doings... I'm sorry if I couldn't explain myself in a good way, but that is simply my opinion in the end.
I miss when the show was about I.M.P, before "Stolitz" devoured the plot...
I think that even with working with the hole Circus dug for her character can be played around. Stella most likely had no real power or control of her life. Just like Stolas she was forced to marry, birth, and raise Octavia. Unlike Stolas however she doesn't have any royal duties beyond what was just mentioned. So one way to feel like your in control of something is abuse. That's why she torments Stolas, the man who to her had stolen her life away before it really got going. Why she throws the Imp butlers around and treat them like shit, she's in control and they can't say or do anything. She talks shit about Stolas because she knows she can use the old "Call in the big bro to fix the problem and keep Stolas in check" until Stolas stood up for himself. This is simply something I quickly workshopped when you mentioned the Circus and I didn't even really bring up her and Octavia's potential relation ship (mainly because she's obviously a daddy's girl) and show that she isn't just a bitch because 'lol hell'.
On this note, I really hate what they did with Striker. In S:2 E:4, I hate how Blitz didn't react *at all* to Striker kidnapping Stolas. Did we not just find out Striker has access to heavenly weapons that could ACTUALLY kill Stolas? Not to mention the fact that Stolas wasn't even aware of it. Shouldn't Blitz be more worried that Stolas could die? Even if we're going off the fact that Blitz probably doesn't love Stolas yet, you'd think he'd be a little concerned his easiest ticket to the overworld is in danger like that. Even when we were shown when Blitz was a little worried, it wasn't mentioned at all later?? He didn't even send a stupid little text?
What characters do and don't know in this show is so confusing and I hate it. Viv is good at setting up interesting plot points, but DAMN, she's just at good at fucking it up
I always had an hunch stella and stolas were arranged but i saw them kinda like Bloberta and Clay were bloberta wanted to get marry and wanted to be with someone i thought stella was excited to be married with stolas but overtime slowly knew he didnt love her. I thought this since she mentioned that stolas cheating must’ve meant she had some attachment to him but then season 2 came and im like….whattttttttt theres no way stolas couldve put up with that marriage for 17 years and suddenly want a divorce
I think, despite the fact that Stella could be written better, she is pretty well portrayed as a narcissist. I think that’s Viv’s goal: to just have a character so icky, so irredeemable, and wanting attention even if that means talking trash about your marriage.
I mean pure evil villains can work. Big Jack Horner from Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is a great example of this.
I’d like to point out a phenomenon of natural progression of evil.
We see Jack Horner’s motive for evil is rooted in the jealousy of magical creatures, he wants their powers.
While as a child, he’s not depicted as evil, if only a little envious of Pinocchio’s showmanship, which is the seed for his evil deeds to grow. Horner becoming evil is done off screen, and we see him as a fully developed character by the time of the Last wish’s events.
We were given the info we needed to make our assumptions of the character and to not waste time. It answers questions about his character and leaves us satisfied with his character.
He’s not truly evil for the sake of it, he has a goal, and he sees anyway to get it as a viable way.
Stella on the other hand…. We get one image of her as a kid, that doesn’t even tell us anything about her behavior besides that it stems from childhood.
We don’t truly know why she’s so angry, why she’s always hated Stolas, and why she sees her methods as fitting for her needs.
We aren’t given proper information on why she’s the way she is at all! It leaves the audience confused, because even if they plan to show more of her backstory in future episodes, there’s barely any setup or hints at Stella’s motives.
There is so much info that is missing from this equation, that LOGIC and REASON would say there should be. Like Viv picked out all the mean and nasty bits of Stella, and left the rest in the dust, if they even existed at all.
Evil just for the sake of it is a cocept of surface level writing. If you’re making a character with human constraints and bounds, evil for the sake of it does not fit.
Even though we are likely to get some more information on Stella, her relationships and her story, we as critics have to assume that Viv is not aware of this issue. If we say nothing and She doesn’t know, then we’re all fucked, but if we say something, then Viv will know.
Horner works for his specific story, and it’s needs. His place as a means of comedy, a pushing force, and an antagonizing role, all fit the bill.
What does Stella even have? What traits make her imposing?
@@1221-g5f You’re right, stupid comparison.
@@callofthedragon6487 Friend, no it is not. You took a noteworthy example of a unsympathetic pure evil villain, and made a comparison to another unsympathetic pure evil villain. Stella has the workings of a Jack Horner, but only if she’s tweaked to fit it.
Don’t call yourself stupid, please.
@@1221-g5f Okay thanks.
Stellas only hurt because if she gets divorced with Stolas, she will lose her status and power
if were to put my thoughts on this, shes not really an actualk villlian yet, but also she might get replaced by andrelphous (Idk how to spell his name) who is her brother
The Circus turned an already thinly-sketched caricature into an avian Lisa from The Room, only more shouty. I've no idea why some people bother defending the writing behind a boring character who's basically the female version of those abusive fiancees/"other men" from soap operatic movies like Titanic or Moulin Rouge (both 'adult' movies practically written for children). And how beyond immature and needlessly hateful for some viewers to claim someone hasn't seen the show just because they wrote a video essay that argued for something they didn't want to hear, when they could've just not watched the video. I'd hope the rest of the show would delve into your proposed alternative scenario, but given the creator's response to criticisms online, I'll not hold my breath. Strip away the aesthetic and other edgy trappings, and this show is no different than a turn of the century melodrama.
The irony on your last sentence talking about melodramatic. Have you not heard of satire before?
Well feel that later on they might go into more details of Stella's character but who knows really
I'm sorry, Stella.
So, I recently went back to watch season 1 episode 2: Loo Loo Land. Because there was that one scene that contradicts to what kind of relationship Stella and Stolas had with one each other in season 2. Namely I'm talking about the childhood flashback of Octavia crying for her dad. I've noticed that Stolas and Stella were sleeping on the same bed. And I think it is pretty strange to sleep with someone whom you later claim to have always hated. This gave me the impression that both of them had tried to be civil with one another, more precise their marriage felt like partnership. That is before the affair with Blitzo had happened. I hope I'm being clear on what I tried to write here .
I think they have big plans for Stella, she isn't fully developed yet I think and we haven't had too much screen time with her for her side of everything. She has potential to do.. horrible things yet still.
I think you give them too much credit.
Writing everything on the spot is a terrible move though,you’ve gotta plan ahead at least somewhat. Not right before you start animating things important to the plot.
I kinda feel that Stella is still being introduced, as hopefully, Millie is. In my opinion, the real Stella's motivation everywhere is her seeking power. The first picture that we see of her as a child is her strangling smn. Aka dominating. In the second episode of the first season, when she tells Stolas to take care of Octavia can mean that she talks to Stolas like to one lower than her, the one she can manipulate and give orders, bc she is the most powerful in their relationship. Her publicly diminishing her husband can be also read as a power move. Like "look what I can do, look how I can act with no consequences whatsoever". Now when Stolas cheats on her a) with an imp, almost the lowest class of demons, b) in their bad chamber, c) during their ball for "not being divorced" aka another power move from her, she might have considered this as a harsh punch on her reputation as a boss of this whole situation. So yes, then it's logical that she wants to kill him to once again show them all that she is wearing pants in this situation. And it's also logical that she wants to torment Stolas, to make him feel miserable, bc she wants to re-establish her dominance here. And finally it is logical why she is so pissed because of the divorce, bc once again, it shows how really powerless she is in terms of managing this situation. I definitely think that there are not enough details in Stella's story and the order of the demon's high society. Like, why does she have this motivation to be empowered? Is this bc she was always powerless with her parents but had a different coping mechanism compared to Stolas? Or is it bc of the place women have in the demonic society? And what will happen to her after the divorce, in terms of status, and relationship with her parents? Anyhow, I stand for the idea that this was not a sloppy writing, but rather a long introduction of the character. However, if it turns out that there will be smth like 8 seasons of this story then it won't be considered that lengthy. I guess the only thing we can do now is just to wait to learn more :) And hope that more attention will be given to Millie, bc her being completely underdeveloped is the sourest bit of the show :(((
I think Stella's meant to be a spoiled brat/ Karen type of character.
I think you're wrong. She was only making fun of Stolas to her close friends. Even if she said these things publicly for the World to hear it would only say that she thinks that she is to good for Stolas and that doesn't hurt her status. Stolas sleeping with Blitzo is a different thing, because it doesn't sound good at all when your husband would rather sleep with a member of the second lowest spiecies in all of hell rather than you, a noble. It's like saying i would rather f*ck dirt than you.
I gotta say on a neutral bases on writing. Helluva boss and hazbin hotel are not well written and most of the characters aren't as well. It's full on too fast pacing, plot holes, plot conveniences and lazy writing. It gets harder and harder to watch the episodes. Especially the last one doesn't make sense. Moxxies dad is "homophobic" and thinks that all gay and bi people are onky obsessed with dic**s. Yet all the characters are obsessed with it and only thing about doing the do. So hating crimson makes no sense (maybe only bc he was a brick of a dad but like you said villain characters still can be well written) it's just a small example of so many I could give of bad writing.
“Stella is blitz love interest” lol
Hey, if you thought THAT was a waste, how about the fact that the writers gave Verosika only 2 minutes of total screentime and 1 SET OF LINES in Ozzie's (despite the Lust Ring being the environment she should be especially important in) so that they could make episode 8 an irrelevant furry party filled with ancillary characters we'll never see again? Now THAT'S what I call a waste!
what are you on about
like seriously what are you saying
@@tombstoneslogan2994 I'm saying that at least Stella gets SCREEN TIME. Verosika, who should be one of the show's prominent antagonists, was only given 1 set of lines in the Lust Ring episode even though it was set in the environment in which she's supposed to be the most important and despite how much she'd been built up!
I already wrote her better. I felt so sorry for her and I became her friend in the character AI.
hope now you’ll make a new video on how they wasted striker as a good villain(
yes! yes! yes! this is what I've been saying this whole time, but no one would listen to me
Helluva Boss frustrates me. I really liked the writing of the first season, but season 2 so far has felt like a mess of fan service
I think if she’s like a jack horner type of villain it could be fun
people hate stella bc they love stolas x blitzo its kinda childish tbh
have you not seen how she acts? 💀
@@youtubedweller4985 im not saying bc her acts but some people just hate on her bc of the ship
@@asuuna7593 ohhh i understand now
@youtubedweller I feel like they made her that way just so they can justify Stolitz. While I want Stolas to be happy, because he deserves to be loved and happy... the way they are writing this story is... just wow
I want a stella redemption badly
I don't mind if she doesn't get a redemption tbh, so long as they stop writing her with all the sophistication of a baby book haha
@@Truffs_Stuff I like Stella's design alot but I doubt vivziePop is gonna have a redemption for her because of the whole stolas thing
Also there are Villains like stella that people like and it is normally in very good movies where there characters who were always unhinged and messed up. Cledas cassidy A.K.A carnage is a big one. If stella were to be more like some characters like cleadis then she would have been loved more. I think that they need to give her more but not like a sympathetic type if way. I would like for her to go to the level of characters like cleadis, Kakine, Nnoitora, and the nother from kill la kill levels of horrible. Give her more traits. That i agree. But i do not agree with making anything about her sympathetic, because that is not the point if her character.
Probably not even related to the video that much, but even though I really enjoy Helluva Boss, it makes me kind of uncomfortable how everything revolves around men, who are pretty terrible people by the way, but you're supposed to be sympathetic towards them because they are the protagonists, and how the "evil" people are usually female characters. I don't know, the show seems to be obsessed about homosexual males, which hey, you do you, but it's kind of distasteful how the meanest people around...are both Stella and Verosika, who are women. It feels very weird to me. The fact that I've seen a lot of people claiming that Stella is a lesbian is...just...oh my God. Heck, even when Strider is technically a bad guy too, him and Blitz end up...flirting? I don't know what's up with the writing team and making literally every single guy on the show same sex attracted, it makes me super uncomfortable, nothing wrong with men liking men, I'm a lesbian myself so I get it, but it just feels so weird. You don't need to make all your male characters homosexual and almost all your female cast vrry unlikable. Stella is horrible, Verosika is horrible, Loona is super unlikable, the only ones who are decent are Octavia and Millie. Maybe I'm looking to hard into it, but there's something about that that rubs me the wrong way.
Ayooo - sorry I haven't replied, I found this comment really interesting! So much so that I'm doing a video basically on this comment haha! Gonna talk a bit about how the female characters become accessories to the males' plots, etc etc - mind if I include a screenshot of your comment? :) No problem if you'd rather I left it out!
Tbh, to me stella is just the female version of how abusive husbands have always been represented in media. Sure she could have had more depth but do we really need that to understand that she is a bad person? I do agree that the writers gave up on her with the whole "let me explicitly explain my own character as if you're a dumb perosn with no critical thinking"
Could she have been executed better? Absolutely
Should she have excuses/reasons for her actions? Yeah it can help us understand where she comes from and what triggers her violent behavior
Do we need to sympathize with her? Not really
sometimes you don't need multidimensional characters, sometimes some characters are bad and that's it, but even if there was something more to it it's really easy to divert the attention from the actual victims (stolas and their daughter) given how many people just don't see past what is shown
So did they waste her character? Not really I don't think anyone would want to learn more about an abuser, even if she was multidimensional she obviously isn't the kinf of character who is willing to nor is she supposed to have a redemption arc (although I wouldn't mind seeing what that looks like)
Was she a wasted villain? Hell yeah she could've been so much more evil than this had she just...not blurted out all of her intentions as if it was the most logical thing to do in the world, we wanted a narcissist not a 90s anime villain...a twisted manipulator who doesn't hesitate to play victim and never considers what her actions could do to even herself...It would've been really interesting if stella played the victim to her daughter an made her believe stolas was the abusive one who cheated on her and didn't care about them
Imagine the angst
Imagine the whole entire arc where Octavia is finally saved from her mother's claws and learns the truth and can't not feel guilty for not seeing the obvious signs that her father was the victim
I'm getting out of control now but yeah stella didn't need to have depth, she just needed to be a smarter manipulator instead of being a dumb mean woman with no self awareness...which I personally found kind of offensive since her only personality outside of marriage is wanting to party, status and living the rich life...which isn't inherently bad on itself
What we needed tho, was a demonstration of what her actions did to her family...that's where the depth should've gone
Octavia doesn't even mention her mother more than 3 times
That the wasted potential
There's way more bad writing in this than just Stella.
Hell is basically Earth, just slightly worse. The main characters are all classic character tropes seen a thousand times before, with the male characters being bumbling fools, and the female characters putting up with them.
The only noteworthy thing this show does is it doesn't make a big deal out of some of the characters being gay. The exploration of how having a gay father and how it affects a marriage is at least interesting. Other than that, Stolas is not interesting at all. We've seen this character before in countless other TV shows. How uninvolved and utterly clueless is he about his daughter's life that it takes him an entire episode to realize she's not a kid anymore?
About the only male character worthy of any respect is Vortex, but he's had only like 5 minutes of screen time. I imagine they'll find a way to ruin him. Maybe he gets together with Loona then cheats on her.
Hello there, I've been meaning to comment on this for a few days now (wish I had seen this video when it first came out xD). But I absolutely 100% agree with you and love the video. They had such good hints at making a morally grey situation where there was no clear cut villain even if Stella is a status obsessed elite and kind of a bitch. It really did seem like they threw her under the bus just so we have someone to hate and see as a true antagonist. Unfortunately this was at the cost of making her one dimensional and a very tired stereotype of the evil mother. There's nothing wrong with giving her layers and depth to make the whole situation just something that unfortunately happened that neither are the true cause of.
Not saying she can't be the antagonist, she most certainly can, but they've pretty much shot any real development for her in the foot by making her always a bratty vile bitch with no care for anyone. Also, I am SHOCKED that I've had the EXACT same ideas for her that you pitched. A good engaging villain has motives, reasons, trauma, and logic to their actions. Someone like Stella doesn't act so high and mighty or obsessed with status without it being drilled in through traumatic and likely abusive childhood where love, if any was given at all, is conditional at best. Not saying that purely shitty people don't exist, but more often than not it's a product of both nature and nurture. She deserves better and, and I hope this doesn't come off as advertising, I am giving her the treatment she needed in a fanfiction I'm writing (even if she's not a main focus). I'm keeping her basically the same, but adding the depth needed while getting rid of elements that were NEVER needed like her brazenly open abusiveness, and a lot of people seem to love what I'm doing with my fiction.
Like seriously, in episode 2 if S1 we are given hints (albeit vague and arguable at best) through a picture and how Octavia talks to Stolas that they were happy to a degree once but now it's gone to crap because Stolas likely couldn't give Stella what was required and she possibly never liked him fully and thus the marriage went cold from a warm at best state where they weren't miserable. It's not her fault he was batting for the same team, nor is it his that things between them just got cold. It's just a messy thing that happened and she's just responding as she was likely raised to. Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, probably might not read but just had to say. Anyway keep up the great work on your videos,
Oh my if it was the only issue of this whole scenario... somehow it's all pretty fcked up
I used to watch and enjoy HELLUVA BOSS when I was young, but this video opened my eyes. You just CAN’T enjoy things that are flawed sometimes.
I know Vivian isn’t a bad person, but she’s flawed both as an artist and writer. If she took less inspiration from Invader Zim and more on (let’s say) Hellsing and Drifters, I guarantee her work would be 10 times more great.
Why would joking about his infidelity lower her social status? I mean sure it's crass but this is hell that seems more than socially acceptable in a place like this.
Well if image and appearance really ARE important to her, loudly admitting "My sex life is garbage' at a party is a strange thing to do
@@hassledvania but why?
@@isamekailmahmud9302 Its so obvious I dont even know where to start
@@hassledvania i know why it would obviously be a bad thing on earth but not in hell cause everyone knows everything's shit there already
@@isamekailmahmud9302 Even in Hell "My sex life sucks and my husband cheat son me" isnt a status symbol. Its hell, morals are out the window, but its not like theyre in bizarro land
Very well made video!
I may not like her character but her design and voice actor are absolutely amazing.