Interesting video. I've been considering The All in one vs Tesla V3. I wish you wouldn't use auto volume, when you start each sentence, it's like you are shouting.
Well presented and informative. Is there any info,on whether more battery storage can be added ? One of the things stopping me moving to an all in one is that I’m using three 9.5 batteries,so I’d want an all in one with around 25 to 40 KW of storage ideally.
Thank you for the update, I'm just looking at installs at the moment so and this looks like what I'm after . I like that the hybrid inverter is a removable part as if in 13 years time it breaks I can just put a new one in to be used with the current battery ect . Only downside having to pay extra to get the checks in year 5,8 and 10 as that is an extra cost so have to look into how much that would be and factor that in .
Thanks for the comment. To my knowledge, the current warranty process involves a remote checkup and some photos to be sent to GivEnergy. So not a big expense. As long as the battery isn’t being used as a coat hanger… Tok
This is a great summary of something that looks VERY attractive. UK are SO far behind in 1) offering >2 MPPT when AUS & USA & GER markets have had them for years; and 2) in distributors taking larger format panels (eg 2278x1134 or 2450x1134) for domestic application. Great to start catching up. One thing you missed addressing is the efficiency curve of a big inverter - which REALLY matters for smaller installations ESP if they are shade-affected (because they will operate for much of the time at well below their kWp). All inverters' efficiency falls off a cliff below 20% of rated power output and this means 2.4kW for this one. So for the 3 seasons of the year you need it the most, the inverter's efficiency may be pants! Need to find out!
I could be misunderstanding here but where the panels are wired into a hybrid inverter, it is DC all the way through to the battery so the inverter efficiency only comes into play with solar energy if the solar DC is being sent directly to the house as AC (i.e. battery is already full). The main use of the inverter will be charging / discharging the battery, which would generally be in multiple kW (i.e. charging on cheaper rate grid import and discharging on peak rate export) unless it is just covering minimal house loads, so this would be in the more efficient range of the inverter.
The (budget brand) Fox ESS has 3 and 4 MPPT inverters. KH7, KH8 have 3 MPPTs with a 75v startup voltage, and the HK9, KH10, and KH10.5 inverters have 4 MPPTs, also with a 75v startup voltage. They can also be run in parallel in bigger setups (max of up to 10 identical inverters). The efficiency curve is pretty good on them too, 81% at 5% load, 94% at 10% load, 96.5% at 20% load. The efficiency curve of GivEnergy's 3.68kW inverter is also very strong, even at 5%. I don't have the curve data for their AIO. Overall, the cliff seems to occur below 5% for most inverters, rather than 20%.
Looks good and thanks for the video. The backup isn't UPS then? I ask as I run several 3d printers and would like a system that protects me for short outages. If this doesn't have UPS then would one specifically for the 3D printers work if it sits between the gateway and the printers?
It’s not certified as one. I’d recommend getting a dedicated UPS to keep them running for up to 30s while the battery takes over. Let me know if you’d like a quote. -Tok
Shame they still haven't released the stacking function they promised for multiple AIO1s back when it was released. Just don't know if I can trust them.
Is there any early information on whether the GivEnergy will be compatible with MLPEs (for rapid shutdown and monitoring, as opposed to necessarily optimisation)? I understand that Tesla have recently said they're not supporting these with the Powerwall 3.
Could the generator input be fed from an EV with V2L capability? If so, combined with the individual circuit control, maybe it could be used as a very crude bidirectional V2H setup. Fox ESS has quite an interesting AIO coming soon too. Based on the Energy Cube stackable batteries, so instead of the topmost module being a BMS+Battery module, it'd be an Inverter+BMS module, and there would be various alternative inverter modules such as single phase and three phase, and the capacity could be increased just by adding more battery modules.
Great summary of what looks to be an amazing product. I have a gen 2 hybrid 5kW inverter and 3* 9.5kWh batteries using a EPS mode 2 providing backup power to a small consumer unit with essential circuits, can this be installed alongside my existing system utilise the smart tech and focus on non essential circuit in a power cut situation until total battery hits a certain%?
Thanks for the comment. The challenge with multiple battery systems is that they usually can’t talk to each other. So they’ll see each other as loads and start charging each other up. This is why Tesla PW2 and PW3 can’t be used together. I’ll find out, but I don’t think the AIO and Gen 2 inverters can communicate. -Tok
I don't think it is, the Product Development Director was pretty clear that is has 6 MPPTs like the Tesla Powerwall 3 in America. Will be interesting to see if they cut it down for the final product though. -Tok
This sounds very nice, but can you control the gateway+hybrid without a remote server on the net or a (presumably proprietary) phone app, the way you can Victron stuff with VenusOS? Currently the open protocols and source of Victron kit is a killler feature. Everyone else (Sunsynk, Givenergy, Tesla, Myenergi, Fronius, Solax) seems to only be giving us closed systems which do what they do but can't be changed, and the fancy stuff is all dependent on them continuing to exist and run their server. But perhaps I am wrong and there are ways to do this for at least some manufacturers?
For off-grid systems and people who want to be truly in control of their power, there's no alternative to Victron. I'd have to find out about the offline controls with GivEnergy. Victron is the best of the best, but you certainly pay for it! -Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk Yes Victron is expensive, but I don't understand why all the others, making perfectly good hardware, think we want to be shafted on the versatility, control and long-term maintainability front. Just publish some specs - it really won't cost much, but would give us peace of mind and control options. If they would let us they'll find that their customers can fix bugs and help make better products. In the battery sphere some of the cheapest stuff is also the most open (pylontech and Fogstar/Seplos)
@@spiritenergy_uk I believe that there is control of GivEnergy inverters via modbus, with no need to contact the GivEnergy cloud, for people with home assistant.
Great video!. I had been looking at the Sygenergy Sygenstore, but this is very interesting. So the hybrid inverter sits on top of the battery pack. Is that a plug fit i.e. no cables?. Also does it include isolators in the unit or do they have to be installed separately?. Thats why I like the Sygenstore as everthing is in one simple unit which is expandable
Thanks for the comment. We don't currently offer the Sygenstore, so I don't know much about it - I'll take a look. The hybrid inverter is a plug fit, with no cables - that's correct. The isolators are included in the unit.
Could I ask, when you say an acronym/abbreviation (say MPPT) could you expand for those of us who have found this as one of our initial videos as I don't know what an MPPT is ;)
Thanks for the feedback. In this sense, MPPT just means string. So the AIO can have 6 strings of panels. If you’d like any help with your solar journey please do drop me an email. -Tok
@@kelvin1316MPPT Maximum Power Point Tracker Basically these are just the entry points for the solar panels to feed into the inverter. 1 positive and one negative for every MPPT AIO All In One
Hi I’m sorry if we have missed your enquiry. That’s not acceptable and I’m very keen to help. Please could you forward the email to tokc@spiritenergy.co.uk and I’ll call you today? -Tok
I have an East/West setup and 2 5kW inverters so four strings. This would have allowed me two spare strings for a possible future south facing extension all in a single box.
@@davidreece1642 I do agree, and products like Powerwall 3 and this are very useful for large solar arrays. You have to be careful not to oversize battery storage too much as it really hurts the payback period if you have 10%+ of your battery not being cycled daily. Always better to slightly undersize if you're doing it for economic reasons - at residential scale at least. This video summarises nicely. ua-cam.com/video/51no5dINzak/v-deo.htmlsi=7qGidL87kITiKCpz -Tok
@@davidreece1642Perhaps you could give food to thought about who and what you will be supporting by purchasing something from an Elon Musk company? Thanks.
It is good to see that once again, it took Tesla to set the standard. All other suppliers are happy to sit on their hands until Tesla came out with new specifications.
Yeah so in the couple of months since tesla realeaed their PW3 , givenery have created this ! This will have been in development for months if not years , this release may have been brought forward , but highley unlikely it’s been solely created in the last few months !
It's sad to see that Tesla has abandoned the development of new EV'S. The constant delays and promises of refreshes and new models is tiresome. I would be worried tha Musk will abandon solar in a similar way, as soon as the next shiny new thing comes along.
Maximum Power Point Tracking. An input where you plug your solar string into and the electronics alter the resistance of the string to extract the maximum power from that string by varying the impedence, which varies the voltage/current to get to the best available point on the power curve. I think!
Great video bud 👍
Thanks!
Great overview of an incredible product. ❤️GivEnergy
This is a superb presentation
Thank you! Glad we could help.
-Tok
Interesting video. I've been considering The All in one vs Tesla V3. I wish you wouldn't use auto volume, when you start each sentence, it's like you are shouting.
Noted. Thanks for the feedback. I’ve tried to keep the audio more consistent in the videos filmed this week.
-Tok
Well presented and informative. Is there any info,on whether more battery storage can be added ? One of the things stopping me moving to an all in one is that I’m using three 9.5 batteries,so I’d want an all in one with around 25 to 40 KW of storage ideally.
Thank you for the update, I'm just looking at installs at the moment so and this looks like what I'm after . I like that the hybrid inverter is a removable part as if in 13 years time it breaks I can just put a new one in to be used with the current battery ect . Only downside having to pay extra to get the checks in year 5,8 and 10 as that is an extra cost so have to look into how much that would be and factor that in .
Thanks for the comment. To my knowledge, the current warranty process involves a remote checkup and some photos to be sent to GivEnergy. So not a big expense.
As long as the battery isn’t being used as a coat hanger…
Tok
This is a great summary of something that looks VERY attractive. UK are SO far behind in 1) offering >2 MPPT when AUS & USA & GER markets have had them for years; and 2) in distributors taking larger format panels (eg 2278x1134 or 2450x1134) for domestic application. Great to start catching up. One thing you missed addressing is the efficiency curve of a big inverter - which REALLY matters for smaller installations ESP if they are shade-affected (because they will operate for much of the time at well below their kWp). All inverters' efficiency falls off a cliff below 20% of rated power output and this means 2.4kW for this one. So for the 3 seasons of the year you need it the most, the inverter's efficiency may be pants! Need to find out!
I found the australian market to be particulairy atracting going over their discounts.
I could be misunderstanding here but where the panels are wired into a hybrid inverter, it is DC all the way through to the battery so the inverter efficiency only comes into play with solar energy if the solar DC is being sent directly to the house as AC (i.e. battery is already full). The main use of the inverter will be charging / discharging the battery, which would generally be in multiple kW (i.e. charging on cheaper rate grid import and discharging on peak rate export) unless it is just covering minimal house loads, so this would be in the more efficient range of the inverter.
The (budget brand) Fox ESS has 3 and 4 MPPT inverters. KH7, KH8 have 3 MPPTs with a 75v startup voltage, and the HK9, KH10, and KH10.5 inverters have 4 MPPTs, also with a 75v startup voltage. They can also be run in parallel in bigger setups (max of up to 10 identical inverters). The efficiency curve is pretty good on them too, 81% at 5% load, 94% at 10% load, 96.5% at 20% load.
The efficiency curve of GivEnergy's 3.68kW inverter is also very strong, even at 5%. I don't have the curve data for their AIO. Overall, the cliff seems to occur below 5% for most inverters, rather than 20%.
Looks good and thanks for the video. The backup isn't UPS then? I ask as I run several 3d printers and would like a system that protects me for short outages. If this doesn't have UPS then would one specifically for the 3D printers work if it sits between the gateway and the printers?
It’s not certified as one. I’d recommend getting a dedicated UPS to keep them running for up to 30s while the battery takes over.
Let me know if you’d like a quote. -Tok
Shame they still haven't released the stacking function they promised for multiple AIO1s back when it was released. Just don't know if I can trust them.
Any thermal management of the battery??
Good question, not to my knowledge. The Tesla PW3 has it but I don’t think AIO does.
-Tok
Is there any early information on whether the GivEnergy will be compatible with MLPEs (for rapid shutdown and monitoring, as opposed to necessarily optimisation)? I understand that Tesla have recently said they're not supporting these with the Powerwall 3.
Tesla have said that they don’t support optimisers such as Tigo. I don’t know how it’ll work with GivEnergy but I imagine it will be similar.
-Tok
Could the generator input be fed from an EV with V2L capability? If so, combined with the individual circuit control, maybe it could be used as a very crude bidirectional V2H setup.
Fox ESS has quite an interesting AIO coming soon too. Based on the Energy Cube stackable batteries, so instead of the topmost module being a BMS+Battery module, it'd be an Inverter+BMS module, and there would be various alternative inverter modules such as single phase and three phase, and the capacity could be increased just by adding more battery modules.
Great summary of what looks to be an amazing product. I have a gen 2 hybrid 5kW inverter and 3* 9.5kWh batteries using a EPS mode 2 providing backup power to a small consumer unit with essential circuits, can this be installed alongside my existing system utilise the smart tech and focus on non essential circuit in a power cut situation until total battery hits a certain%?
Thanks for the comment. The challenge with multiple battery systems is that they usually can’t talk to each other. So they’ll see each other as loads and start charging each other up.
This is why Tesla PW2 and PW3 can’t be used together.
I’ll find out, but I don’t think the AIO and Gen 2 inverters can communicate.
-Tok
I have a Sol-Ark 15k which also has 6 MPPT inputs. However these are technically 3 inputs split into 2. So perhaps The AIO is going to be the same?
I don't think it is, the Product Development Director was pretty clear that is has 6 MPPTs like the Tesla Powerwall 3 in America. Will be interesting to see if they cut it down for the final product though.
-Tok
Isn’t technology fantastic thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
This sounds very nice, but can you control the gateway+hybrid without a remote server on the net or a (presumably proprietary) phone app, the way you can Victron stuff with VenusOS? Currently the open protocols and source of Victron kit is a killler feature. Everyone else (Sunsynk, Givenergy, Tesla, Myenergi, Fronius, Solax) seems to only be giving us closed systems which do what they do but can't be changed, and the fancy stuff is all dependent on them continuing to exist and run their server. But perhaps I am wrong and there are ways to do this for at least some manufacturers?
For off-grid systems and people who want to be truly in control of their power, there's no alternative to Victron. I'd have to find out about the offline controls with GivEnergy.
Victron is the best of the best, but you certainly pay for it!
-Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk Yes Victron is expensive, but I don't understand why all the others, making perfectly good hardware, think we want to be shafted on the versatility, control and long-term maintainability front. Just publish some specs - it really won't cost much, but would give us peace of mind and control options. If they would let us they'll find that their customers can fix bugs and help make better products.
In the battery sphere some of the cheapest stuff is also the most open (pylontech and Fogstar/Seplos)
@@spiritenergy_uk I believe that there is control of GivEnergy inverters via modbus, with no need to contact the GivEnergy cloud, for people with home assistant.
Great video!. I had been looking at the Sygenergy Sygenstore, but this is very interesting. So the hybrid inverter sits on top of the battery pack. Is that a plug fit i.e. no cables?. Also does it include isolators in the unit or do they have to be installed separately?. Thats why I like the Sygenstore as everthing is in one simple unit which is expandable
Thanks for the comment. We don't currently offer the Sygenstore, so I don't know much about it - I'll take a look.
The hybrid inverter is a plug fit, with no cables - that's correct.
The isolators are included in the unit.
That's excellent, thanks. So fundamentally it becomes one simple unit accepting connections from solar and the backup gateway 2
Could I ask, when you say an acronym/abbreviation (say MPPT) could you expand for those of us who have found this as one of our initial videos as I don't know what an MPPT is ;)
Thanks for the feedback. In this sense, MPPT just means string. So the AIO can have 6 strings of panels.
If you’d like any help with your solar journey please do drop me an email.
-Tok
@@kelvin1316MPPT Maximum Power Point Tracker
Basically these are just the entry points for the solar panels to feed into the inverter. 1 positive and one negative for every MPPT
AIO All In One
What chemistry does the battery use?
@@SteveTheTechy LFP
Looks like they are doing same as Sigenergy with this one, comming
Great overview, interesting product. I shall await further developments, many thanks.
Only a matter of time, brilliant. GivEnergy always wait for Tesla to show their hand first and then trump them.
Its such a shame there staff dont reply to customer emails. Wanted to talk about installing a system with 40kw of storage
Hi I’m sorry if we have missed your enquiry. That’s not acceptable and I’m very keen to help. Please could you forward the email to tokc@spiritenergy.co.uk and I’ll call you today?
-Tok
Hi I’m very sorry if we have missed your enquiry. I’m very keen to assist you on this, please do forward the email to me. -Tok
tokc@spiritenergy.co.uk
I have an East/West setup and 2 5kW inverters so four strings. This would have allowed me two spare strings for a possible future south facing extension all in a single box.
Yep! Technology’s amazing.
-Tok
So again, it is a techincly inferior product to Tesla
@@paulkearsley9509 How so?
Any murmurings about a 3 phase model yet?
Nothing that I’ve heard I’m afraid.
-Tok
Does this provide Solar PV system support - meaning the solar PV can carry on working during a grid outage like the Powerwall 3 does?
Gen 1 AIO can (with the Gateway installed) so this will be the same (with Gateway 2 installed)
@@McOw123 Thank you
I was considering the Powerwall 3 over the GivEnergy, however...
Any chance the storage capacity could be increased to say 18-20kWh?
Thanks for the comment. GivEnergy mentioned they might be releasing new parallel DC add on packs in the future I believe.
-Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk Thanks, people are tending to install larger power solar panel arrays, so larger storage needed especially in an ASHP was installed.
@@davidreece1642 I do agree, and products like Powerwall 3 and this are very useful for large solar arrays.
You have to be careful not to oversize battery storage too much as it really hurts the payback period if you have 10%+ of your battery not being cycled daily. Always better to slightly undersize if you're doing it for economic reasons - at residential scale at least.
This video summarises nicely. ua-cam.com/video/51no5dINzak/v-deo.htmlsi=7qGidL87kITiKCpz
-Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk Thank you for the YT vid, more food for thought.
@@davidreece1642Perhaps you could give food to thought about who and what you will be supporting by purchasing something from an Elon Musk company? Thanks.
It is good to see that once again, it took Tesla to set the standard. All other suppliers are happy to sit on their hands until Tesla came out with new specifications.
Yeah so in the couple of months since tesla realeaed their PW3 , givenery have created this !
This will have been in development for months if not years , this release may have been brought forward , but highley unlikely it’s been solely created in the last few months !
It's sad to see that Tesla has abandoned the development of new EV'S. The constant delays and promises of refreshes and new models is tiresome. I would be worried tha Musk will abandon solar in a similar way, as soon as the next shiny new thing comes along.
Micro inverters are more tech that canngo wrong. Andvwithbthe price of scafolding, keep away from adding electronics to every pannel
I would completely agree with this. -Tok
an MPPT IS!!!!
Maximum Power Point Tracking. An input where you plug your solar string into and the electronics alter the resistance of the string to extract the maximum power from that string by varying the impedence, which varies the voltage/current to get to the best available point on the power curve. I think!
Brilliant explanation.
-Tok