Great video. Especially like the trick of using the dowel to determine the amount of powder required. I buy my 45 Colt pre-lubed bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. They make pre-lubed cast lead bullets for smokeless powder and also black powder bullets that use a special lube just for black powder.
Back when I was shooting Black Powder I always did the Cap & Ball thing, with a Walker replica and a Navy. Never even imagined a black powder cartridge revolver. Excellent video Mike Thanks.
I hope you find this video helpful? Mike, this is the most informative, easily understood video that I have ever seen on the subject. Thank you so much for making it. You have just helped me immensely.
I was buying 410 shotgun paper cards on top of 25gr FFF with a wonder wad to keep the lub seperated from the powder with various degrees of success. A thin layer of corn meal helps between the powder with the card on top. I tried a 451 round ball on top of 25gr of FFF without flaring the case. The ball seats below the mouth and you just put bp lube in the mouth of the case but accuracy was just ok.
I like the wonder wads. Its like shooting a brillo pad thru the barrel. Nearly eliminates barrel leading. I cant believe some people shoot with out them!
I am reloading for .45APC BP for shaved Mk,I and Mk,II webleys. This video was Excellent for helping me to improve my loads, I now know that why my hand-loaded cast and sized bullets are better than the pre-cast pre lubed .454" Mk.II webley 265grn HB bullets I buy, the bought bullets have a triple lube groove that are very shallow and have red carnuba wax, my hand-loads have double lube groove but deeper and are beeswax, and now I know that to get the load I want I need a new bullet mold. was a little hesitant to go searching for big lube dick dastardly so thanks for the links, LOL Thank you for all of your informative videos, my requests for new videos, Black powder loading for . 455/.476 Webleys /Enfields and .44 Bulldogs, 2 most common big bore antiques for reloading in Canada right now, excluding the cowboy guns.
Very informative. I learned why my 44/40 rifle BP loads don't group after 10-15 shot. I use SPG lube but the lube grooves on the Lee bullet I shot are way to small. I now Have an NOE mould with a wide deep groove for BP.
What a fantastic video, Mike! I've been loading a lot of .45 Colt lately, so this is timely advice. I can see I need to get rid of my Lee mold and get a big lube mold. Also, I was not aware that Swiss didn't like compression, so that's new. Thank you. I'm really looking forward to seeing the .45 reloading video next time.
One of the best mentalities I've heard is to that of seasoned cast iron pan. Needles to say, my cast iron pans are wipe easy to clean and don't stick when cooking. This is what you should be experiencing when shooting black powder.
Excellent video Mike, absolutely more on black powder and the top breaks. You’re beginning to ruin me and bankrupt me with every program, and I love every minute of it. Thanks my friend, 👍👍👍
Hey Mike...thanks for the video. I just use smokeless bullets and put the BP lube at the end of the cylinder like the cap and ball method...works great!
Great video, thanks. Just now getting started, bought a Lee Loader kit and am attempting to create cartridges for my Webley MK VI. Another channel did a video for using .45 Auto Rim with Pyrodex as the propellent, and semi wad cutters as the bullet. Any comments you'd like to share on that combination would be greatly appreciated. I've watched about a half dozen of your videos, and enjoyed them enough to subscribe and rang the bell for all notifications. This is very fascinating. I'm retired, be 72 in August and need a hobby to keep the grey matter stimulated. I inherited my WEBLEY from my father in law when he passed away a few years back. It had been modified to accept .45 ACP with the moon clips. I don't dare use those, but I really want to use this old pistol. I love these old things, and figured it would be less expensive than a Model T! Thanks again...
FYI the cheapest I’ve heard of would be 50/50 by weight of paraffin wax (gulf wax) and 1 pound of Vaseline (petroleum jelly). It’s not perfect but it works, it’s cheap and it’s available almost any department stores. Another plus is it won’t decompose or go rancid like tallow (could).
I use olive oil and beeswax, it works well but you need to adjust the beeswax content to your climate. In my climate I can use 1/3 beeswax (the most expensive ingredient). I can even mix it so I can lube with a syringe (1/4-1/5 mix). Further south that would melt and make a mess. I live in Maine. In cold weather a 50/50 mix works but can be pretty stiff.
Excellent tutorial, like you I stumbled around loading BP cartridges in the 1960's, and it was very much a trial and error thing, but that is what made it so interesting to me, the only worry I have with the Big Lube 45s is that the base is very weak, and I wonder if anyone has recovered a fired bullet to see if the base has collapsed, I would think that DD would have done that, but there is no information available. Chris B.
I have an Astra American Pioneer Single Action that I bought several decades ago, before I ever heard of the Uberti. Internally, it is not much different than the 1851, 1860 & 1861 black powder Colts; which means it is easy to take apart to clean. I made some black powder loads for that gun, and had a lot of fun. I do not think that I would use black powder loads in a Ruger Blackhawk because they are more complicated, and therefore not as easy to clean.
Although slightly off topic, I have been reloading 12ga brass shotgun cases with bp loads for years. I don't have a bp only shotgun, I have an Eastern Arms and Stevens single shot that I use these in. I find it handy to make my own bp loads for specific conditions and for survival situations. I have made my own primer punch and setter as well as modifying the primer pocket on the brass cases to accept No.9 primers. I keep a powder measure, wadding and cards, a small bottle of powder and small bottles of different size shot( 7 1/2, 4, BB and 00 buck as well as round balls, and the tools needed to reprime and load the shells in a possibles bag in my pack so I can change loads in the field as needed along with a few commercial loads. This system is not only a practical and economical solution to ammo procurement, it is also a fun change to just loading and firing premade shells. BP does require some maintenance cleaning in the field to keep the shells from sticking in the chamber and make regular cleaning easier later on. I also have a chamber adapter that essentially turns a single shot into a muzzle loader and uses No.9 primers for ignition.
with cap and ball, each shot leaves a thin circular rim of lube at the edge of the barrel crown, which for me is perfect. I am able to shoot as long as I want without cleaning - any amount, so long as I am using good black powder (Old Eynsford in my case - no longer avail., I assume Swiss is the same). I imagine cartridge black powder shooting with Big Lube bullets would be similar. I can't shoot Pyrodex without a lot of cleaning no matter the lube.
Mike I just wanted to say thank you so much. I started watching your video😢about 9 years ago when I got my first pietta and am just now getting into bp carriage shooting and am loving getting to learn from you!
Great tutorial, Mike! Like you, I learned bp cartridge loading by trial and error. Way back....when none of this information was readily available as it is today. Went down the same rabbit hole with grease cookies, etc., too. I also load my cartridges using the same method you use, to determine powder charge and compression. Very consistent and makes good loads, once a person gets the hang of it. Looking forward to the next reloading segment.
Reloading is easy to start - just go slow and pay attention The most important thing is to develop habits and organization that will prevent errors like double loading Good organization is when things are organized so errors can't happen - there are many individual ways that work. It is important imo not to start with a progressive press, you might get so frustrated you quit the hobby. Most people don't need the extreme volume they provide anyway - better to learn how to make a quality reload, then move on to progressive presses if you really need volume and can put up with the finicky adjusting.
This brought back memories of when i started loading black powder shotshells after watching your video on it. i loaded 50 rounds with unlubed fiber wads, SIlly me. After shooting them through my coach gun i was scrubbing wad chaffe and powder fouling out of 2 barrels for what seemed like forever. For the new guys, give lube the respect it deserves. I go 50/50 beeswax and crisco.
When I saw the pictures of the bullets I thought right off about the Union Williams Cleaner bullets I would find here in Virginia while relic hunting. Looks like the modern bullets just improved on the design.
NOE Bullet molds, makes a couple of molds that work great for black powder, they have the extra wide Bullet grove to hold a lot of SPG lube, one for the 45 colt is , 454-241rnfp, with hp pins if needed, drops out of mold at .456 before sizing, also 432-216 rnfp for .44 cal, i use it for 44spl, 44-40, or mag , 5 cavity’s, will yield a bunch of Bullets quick,
Great video Mike! I agree %100, shooting black powder cartridge is WAY more fun than shooting smokeless ammo in old guns. I’ve never tried a “Big lube” bullet but they look good. I melt the smokeless lube off and pan lube the bullets with homemade BP lube and they work really well. I put 50 rounds of BP 45 Colt through my converted dragoon without any trouble and it was still going strong.
Now I suppose I'm going to have to transfer that information to my 357 and 38 cartridges, although I do have a book I can use of which I know that I will be using that book but this information has given me the basics. Thank you so much for the tutorial. Have a great day and stay safe and keep your powder dry!
Excellent Mike. One thing, you may not have stressed enough (for newbies sake) that the mark on the dowel is the minimum charge, because it's dangerous to leave air space in BP cartridges. Newbies might think it's just the minimum recommended charge.
have you ever heard of desperado bullets. I have used there bullets and the lube they use works with both blackpowder and smokeless. So far, I have not had a problem
I always learn something from your videos. I've just always thought that all black powder and black powder substitutes should be compressed. I never knew that some should be compressed more than others. I will watch this again in a day or two and take some notes. Thanks
I am told by a man that buys and shoots APP by the case that American Pioneer Powder (Black MZ, Jim Shokey's Gold ) does not like any compression at all.
Nice video. One thing that I always try to point out is to use a natural based lube. Petroleum based products result in "tar-like" fouling, and, as you clearly discussed this is extremely hard to remove. Natural based lubes result in fouling that can be cleaned with soap and hot water. That's what I do - soap and hot water cleaning, followed by hot water rinse (hot enough to air dry), then protectant of your choice. It has served me well since the 80's.
I’m shooting targets so I don’t need a lot of power, my thought is to go with 2 wads in my 45 and about 21gr of BP, the wads will be a non lube followed by a lubed followed by reg bullet. So I can get a lube without getting it in the gun powder.
Most informative. You have just about talked me out of using black powder unless I can find bullets close to diameter .380" for my revolver. One possibility is finding .375 colt navy bullets and powder coat them to increase the diameter. I do not plan to buy an expensive custom mold. I have sized down 41 colt bullets in the past since I have a mold for that. My only reason to use black power is concerns with pressure. i know full loads of cartridge black powder will be safe. For smokeless one is guessing on what is safe. The Dutch did load some of their revolver rounds with smokeless, but I only it was done, but can only guess how much unique or similar powder one should use.
My BP experience is limited to 15 years ago when I did CW re enacting (if you can call a bunch of old guys hobbling around a field or park re enacting). We obviously were not shooting projectiles (or even the wadding of the paper the cartridge wrapping it). But, after shooting for over an hour the BP residue in the barrel was really deep and crusty. I imagined what you went through. BTW I was using a smooth bore 50 cal Enfield designed for re enacting to help with fowling issues. At my age, just dealing with shooting and zeroing my (20th century ones) rifles, keeping them clean etc is enough for me, but I enjoy watching your channel a lot. Thanks
Thanks, Mike. I also started loading black powder cartridges in the mid 90's. The only source of information at that time was basically Mike Venturino until you started providing it as well. Made all the same mistakes you described. I have been casting bullets with a large lube capacity design(many different calibers) by Accurate Molds and they work well also.
Thank you for a great video. Can you make a video about what equipment you need to get started with loading black powder cartridges too? You are talking about a lubri-sizer and a press??
I have only loaded for smokeless cartridges and cap & ball before. This was quite instructive and useful, as I have revolvers amenable to such cartridges. I've used Colt Navy and Ruger Old Army since the late 1970s and detail strip them for cleaning after every outing. Has this been necessary? I've witnessed the horror of oxidation that black powder sets into motion. Ivory soap and hot water have prevented it from reducing the revolvers I now have. I'd like to hear how much fouling gets into the action of, say, a Smith & Wesson Model 10 with black powder. That is a set of machinery that I'm disinclined to break down on a regular basis.
I love this video so much, tons of helpful information in one video! Have you ever tried Acme bullets? They say their lube is compatible with black powder. Do you have an opinion on that?
Have you ever used a drop tube to load revolver rounds? In the later 90’s I was loading .44-40 rounds for my stainless Ruger vaquero. The gentleman that I got the load from told me to fill the case to the top and compress it with the bullet. I was using Goex and did not mess the neck on the case up. They shot very well and grouped well. Great video and thank you for the advice.
@@duelist1954 Where can I find a drop tube? I have not found one for purchase. Are they all made from pieces? Frontier Western Heritage has one that I think is a Cabelas but I know I need one.
Great information, big help. I’ve been working on getting the components and tools together to create .38 Special black powder loads. I might have invested in the wrong mold after seeing the ease compared to conventional.
Awesome information Mike. I've beem considering this very press for 357 mag for all my cowboy guns. Still hoping ammo prices come down because it seems supplies are scarce and expensive too. Before the pandemic I held off getting into reloading because it would have only saved .10 cents a round, and not worth the investment and time then. But, we'll see, time will tell.
Lol i found the beeswax/olive oil mix by accident about 4 years ago lol I wont use a wonder wad with out a leather wad under it anymore. They contaminate powder in my experience if not used fairly quickly, sad to say.
Mike, can you show us how you clean the brass to get it shiny again after BP shooting? I’m not sure it’s possible if you leave them out too long. I think maybe hot water and a jar right away would help. But my brass is a bit dark but seems to still work as well.
Good video Mike, and I have a question in regards to the manufacture of Goex powder, which I understand will be discontinued. After using this product for 40+ years it was very disconcerting to hear this, and will we have to rely on imported propellant's.
It is a Mike video so saying it is 'Great' is repetition, but it it GREAT! Thank you! The powder info is important, but are you using FFF? I would think so, but never assume. My big question is normal BP loading is by volume, not weight. Now I understand that if you measure the volume and weigh it you can get the same amount much easier, so that is a good way to do it. But how does that compare to the original load of the 45 Colt? I think you said it was lowered to 35 grains for the military round. I love to shoot my Uberti 45 and reload for it with nice 200 gn RNFP and a not too light load. I have been wanting to try BP to feel the cowboy way of shooting, but had no idea where to start. Now you have helped me along. Thank you again.
It is basically the Schofield load. All powder is measured by weight, but it is generally dispensed by the volume that holds that weight of powder…black powder, smokeless…same same…only B-P subs are different.
Great video Mike. Are there any reloading manuals or books that are a good resource for black powder cartridge reloading? I would like to start reloading 45 colt and 45-70.
Hi Mike You mentioned that if you use a lubricated felt wad under the bullet to not compress it or the lube would squeeze out. And that makes sense. But I have seen this method (a lubed felt wad under the ball or conical) used in cap and ball shooting, and I do it this way myself, and obviously the lube must be getting squeezed out when you ram the ball home. One could argue that you typically shoot the cap and ball right away, but the lube would still contaminate the powder as soon as it touches it. There must be something I am not seeing here. I have only loaded BP rifle cartridges so far and use the felt wad under the bullet method. My compression is actually the thickness of the wad so I'm sure everything is nice and tight. But I do use an overshot card over the powder in this case. Maybe it would be a good idea on pistol cartridges as well. Either that or overkill, lol.
I used to use either lubed felt wads or a grease cookie under the bullet in black powder cartridges, and I used a compression die to compact the powder before putting in either the cookie or the wad. But, over 20 years ago, I switched to using bullets that carry a sufficient amount of lube, which ended any compression considerations. I cast bullets using the Big Lube bullet designs that Dick Dastardly sells these days. You really can't beat them with black powder.
Thanks for the reply, Mike. I always like that about you, you don't ignore older videos. I use a lubed felt wad over a shot card in my 45-60 to get a little more lube than what the bullet can handle. I put in the overshot card and then compress the load. Then seat the bullet and it compresses the felt wad. I guess I hoped the overshot card would contain any squeezed out lube. I haven't tried any pistol cartridges yet... But like I said, you don't worry about compressing a lubed felt wad if it's under the bullet in cap and ball. Why would you worry about it in a cartridge? I've been trying to wrap my head around that all morning, lol.@@duelist1954
Like the video! Working on a 9.4 Dutch pistol - just took .400 bullets down to .380 on the lath - guess I'll think about cutting in a bigger lube ring! Is a drop tube silly on a pistol case?? Do you take any precautions for static issues on the bench??
In the 19th century, what did they do about lube/black powder fouling? they didn't have big lube bullet designs, so did they just have to clean their bores after 6 shots? I know that paper cartridges often had the bullets dipped in lube, but what about metallic cartridges like the .44 WCF or .45 Colt in black powder?
Jeff I was going to ask the same question. The black powder cartridge era did not last that long, perhaps they never got a solution as effective as Big Lube bullets - or maybe they did. I would be interesting to find out. They had solutions for everything else and had some practices that are better in my opinion than today's, eg I am convinced they had no need or desire to wash their guns with soap and hot water after every time they shot. They were practical and knew running a patch or two with liberal use of grease everywhere worked fine. It does work fine. I have gone nearly a year without soap and hot water, so long as a use the gun weekly and grease well, no sign of corrosion or pitting etc. With only black powder - I would never try that with black powder substitutes - especially Pyrodex. If I tried that with Pyrodex it would not be long before I had a ruined gun.
There are a couple of very good vintage design bullet molds that hold a decent amount of lube. The fact is, they didn’t expect protracted gun battles with revolvers. Most B-P rifle bullets hold a lot of lube, but I think bullet designer expected just one cylinder full of handgun ammo would be expended in any given fight.If you were fighting at handgun range, the fighting was about to be over.
If you were just using greased wads/wonderwads underneath the bullet, wouldn't you want to use some sort of card underneath all that to prevent the wad from squishing/gunking up or potentially melting into the powder?
Do you ever load round ball? I have lots of .454 round ball, and am lazy and don't want to cast 45 LC bullets. I tried some quick and dirty round ball loads with Pyrodex (filled the cases to the top with Pyrodex, round ball over that, whatever compression that gave me, Alox lube on the ball). I didn't have any fouling problems, but it was horrifically inaccurate. Not even hitting the paper at seven yards. Shot some smokeless cowboy loads right after and the gun shot fine, so the issue was my ammunition for sure. I've heard of cowboy action shooters loading round ball 45 LC, I'm just not sure the correct way to do it. I assume a grease cookie or wonder wad under the ball, with real BP lube (and real BP, not that I can find it for sale anywhere), but that's still a lot of powder for a very light projectile, and that seems bad for accuracy, unless my smokeless powder mind is confused.
Mike Very helpful video. I just bought a bunch of 38 short colt shells. I have a Taylors conversation cylinde with an unlined barrel. Taylors recommends to shoot cowboy ammo or 38 special HBWC so it flairs to catch the rifling. How does these .357 diameter bullets catch the rifling for accuracy?
Question if I may. Can a small pistol magnum primer be used when loading black powder with a lubed wad under the bullet in a 38 Special. I have thousands of mag primers, but very few standard primers left. Can’t find standard primers anywhere. Will a mag primer cause unsafe pressure spikes when loading black powder to your specifications as shown in the video?
I like your videos a lot and hope you keep making them for decades to come. I have a question. Is it possible to use an outside lubed bullet, (beeswax and tallow) as you use on your heel-based bullets on regular smokeless bullets instead of a wonder wad?
you only need a little bit of lube for preventing leading in smokeless loads, but i suspect a bp style lube would do the job just as good, just put it on the lube groove
Yes, but the lube groove doesn't hold enough lube to keep the fouling soft. But, if you clean the bore after each cylinder-full, you can get away with it.
That was pretty much what I wanted to ask, thanks. I have a bunch of healed externally lubed slugs that I wanted to repurpose to a different cartridge. With my Gasser I had wonderful success with the wonderwads, but with my next purchase the space left in the case is not going to allow too much extra. Trying to make 450 boxers.
@@HircineDaWolf I read it as a question about black powder, he is asking if he can lube a black powder outside lube bullet in the same manner as he sees done with heel based smokeless bullets.
I do similar. Would never change. Do remove primers. No need for the expensive machines unless for 100s of cases. I have a Chinese tumbler, half the size, for UK 50 pounds on ebay. Solid, timer, spare belts, lasted well these past years. Correct here, must use lemon juice or citric acid. Good luck. Peter.
Hey Mike. I’ve read that temperature can affect performance on black powder loads. For instance, very hot or cold weather causing variations in velocity. Will very hot ambient temps cause the lube around a cased bullet to melt and seep into the powder? Like on a hot Arizona desert day?
I have never seen lube contamination from just the lube on the bullet, but I suppose it is possible. If I lived in a very hot climate, I would increase the proportion of beeswax vs tallow in my lube
I use wonderwads in my 36 and 44 cal BP revolvers, I ran the ball home with my powder charge topped off with the wonderland, am I gonna have lube problems with my powder? you said in loading 45 cal bullets you could have problems when you squizzy lube into the poeder?
Wonder wads hold their lube pretty well. You can’t really compress them enough with a C&B loading lever to contaminate the powder. Grease cookies are a different story.
Mike, do you know where we can get the PRS or Mav Dutchman bullets these days? I went on the Dick Dastardly site and tried the number but it looks not operational anymore! Congrats by the way on your recent positive developments!
Great video! I load the 577/.450 Martini Henry on occasion with BP and I have used Pyrodex RS as well as 777 2Fg with LEE 405 grain and 340 grain bullets that I have paper patched as well as lubed with my homemade BP lube. My question is in regard to GOEX liking a little more compression as opposed to SWISS or Shuetzen. Why is that? I have had good results with the subs I used too. I just fill the case to where it is full to the base of the bullet with very little compression. Just enough to “snug up” the space really. I’m saving my GOEX though to shoot on those special occasions when I just want to smell the real BP and see the real BP smoke screen. I’ll mostly be just shooting it in my ol ‘51 Navy for old times sake.
Honestly, I don’t know why. Goex actually performs somewhat better with heavy compression, but with Swiss I get less consistent velocities when it is compressed more than 1/10th of an inch.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #30 ДВА В ОДНОМ [Один человек]• Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nrXy15orKhY/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video…now if I could find primers, and real bp.
Great video. Especially like the trick of using the dowel to determine the amount of powder required. I buy my 45 Colt pre-lubed bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. They make pre-lubed cast lead bullets for smokeless powder and also black powder bullets that use a special lube just for black powder.
"Everything old will once again become new!"
Hi Mike. I appreciate your producing yet another video with valuable information for a black powder newbie.
Back when I was shooting Black Powder I always did the Cap & Ball thing, with a Walker replica and a Navy. Never even imagined a black powder cartridge revolver. Excellent video Mike Thanks.
I hope you find this video helpful? Mike, this is the most informative, easily understood video that I have ever seen on the subject. Thank you so much for making it. You have just helped me immensely.
I was buying 410 shotgun paper cards on top of 25gr FFF with a wonder wad to keep the lub seperated from the powder with various degrees of success. A thin layer of corn meal helps between the powder with the card on top. I tried a 451 round ball on top of 25gr of FFF without flaring the case. The ball seats below the mouth and you just put bp lube in the mouth of the case but accuracy was just ok.
I like the wonder wads. Its like shooting a brillo pad thru the barrel. Nearly eliminates barrel leading. I cant believe some people shoot with out them!
I am reloading for .45APC BP for shaved Mk,I and Mk,II webleys. This video was Excellent for helping me to improve my loads, I now know that why my hand-loaded cast and sized bullets are better than the pre-cast pre lubed .454" Mk.II webley 265grn HB bullets I buy,
the bought bullets have a triple lube groove that are very shallow and have red carnuba wax, my hand-loads have double lube groove but deeper and are beeswax, and now I know that to get the load I want I need a new bullet mold.
was a little hesitant to go searching for big lube dick dastardly so thanks for the links, LOL
Thank you for all of your informative videos,
my requests for new videos, Black powder loading for . 455/.476 Webleys /Enfields and .44 Bulldogs, 2 most common big bore antiques for reloading in Canada right now, excluding the cowboy guns.
Very informative. I learned why my 44/40 rifle BP loads don't group after 10-15 shot. I use SPG lube but the lube grooves on the Lee bullet I shot are way to small. I now Have an NOE mould with a wide deep groove for BP.
Did the results improve?
What a fantastic video, Mike! I've been loading a lot of .45 Colt lately, so this is timely advice. I can see I need to get rid of my Lee mold and get a big lube mold. Also, I was not aware that Swiss didn't like compression, so that's new. Thank you. I'm really looking forward to seeing the .45 reloading video next time.
It will tolerate a little compression well, but Goex actually prefers heavy compression…that is Goex’s best characteristic.
One of the best mentalities I've heard is to that of seasoned cast iron pan. Needles to say, my cast iron pans are wipe easy to clean and don't stick when cooking. This is what you should be experiencing when shooting black powder.
Excellent video Mike, absolutely more on black powder and the top breaks. You’re beginning to ruin me and bankrupt me with every program, and I love every minute of it. Thanks my friend, 👍👍👍
Hey Mike...thanks for the video. I just use smokeless bullets and put the BP lube at the end of the cylinder like the cap and ball method...works great!
Great video, thanks. Just now getting started, bought a Lee Loader kit and am attempting to create cartridges for my Webley MK VI. Another channel did a video for using .45 Auto Rim with Pyrodex as the propellent, and semi wad cutters as the bullet. Any comments you'd like to share on that combination would be greatly appreciated. I've watched about a half dozen of your videos, and enjoyed them enough to subscribe and rang the bell for all notifications. This is very fascinating. I'm retired, be 72 in August and need a hobby to keep the grey matter stimulated. I inherited my WEBLEY from my father in law when he passed away a few years back. It had been modified to accept .45 ACP with the moon clips. I don't dare use those, but I really want to use this old pistol. I love these old things, and figured it would be less expensive than a Model T! Thanks again...
FYI the cheapest I’ve heard of would be 50/50 by weight of paraffin wax (gulf wax) and 1 pound of Vaseline (petroleum jelly). It’s not perfect but it works, it’s cheap and it’s available almost any department stores. Another plus is it won’t decompose or go rancid like tallow (could).
Very informative! Suggesting olive oil is a great tip!
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
I use olive oil and beeswax, it works well but you need to adjust the beeswax content to your climate. In my climate I can use 1/3 beeswax (the most expensive ingredient). I can even mix it so I can lube with a syringe (1/4-1/5 mix). Further south that would melt and make a mess. I live in Maine. In cold weather a 50/50 mix works but can be pretty stiff.
Thank you for recognizing the interest in black powder catridges. THANKS
Excellent tutorial, like you I stumbled around loading BP cartridges in the 1960's, and it was very much a trial and error thing, but that is what made it so interesting to me, the only worry I have with the Big Lube 45s is that the base is very weak, and I wonder if anyone has recovered a fired bullet to see if the base has collapsed, I would think that DD would have done that, but there is no information available. Chris B.
I have an Astra American Pioneer Single Action that I bought several decades ago, before I ever heard of the Uberti. Internally, it is not much different than the 1851, 1860 & 1861 black powder Colts; which means it is easy to take apart to clean. I made some black powder loads for that gun, and had a lot of fun. I do not think that I would use black powder loads in a Ruger Blackhawk because they are more complicated, and therefore not as easy to clean.
Although slightly off topic, I have been reloading 12ga brass shotgun cases with bp loads for years. I don't have a bp only shotgun, I have an Eastern Arms and Stevens single shot that I use these in. I find it handy to make my own bp loads for specific conditions and for survival situations. I have made my own primer punch and setter as well as modifying the primer pocket on the brass cases to accept No.9 primers. I keep a powder measure, wadding and cards, a small bottle of powder and small bottles of different size shot( 7 1/2, 4, BB and 00 buck as well as round balls, and the tools needed to reprime and load the shells in a possibles bag in my pack so I can change loads in the field as needed along with a few commercial loads. This system is not only a practical and economical solution to ammo procurement, it is also a fun change to just loading and firing premade shells. BP does require some maintenance cleaning in the field to keep the shells from sticking in the chamber and make regular cleaning easier later on. I also have a chamber adapter that essentially turns a single shot into a muzzle loader and uses No.9 primers for ignition.
please continue this video series as I've only been reloading for about a year now
I think it would be veery interesting to see these bullets exiting the barrel on high-speed cameras and what is happening with the lube at that point.
with cap and ball, each shot leaves a thin circular rim of lube at the edge of the barrel crown, which for me is perfect. I am able to shoot as long as I want without cleaning - any amount, so long as I am using good black powder (Old Eynsford in my case - no longer avail., I assume Swiss is the same). I imagine cartridge black powder shooting with Big Lube bullets would be similar. I can't shoot Pyrodex without a lot of cleaning no matter the lube.
You Are an institution in the old west gun era. Love your videos.
Thanks!
Good Job Mike.
Good man Mike ordered the 45 PRS MOLD and 44 which is on back order but my order is in!
This video is indispensable to a Black Powder newbie like me ...! Thanks Mr Bellevue !
Mike I just wanted to say thank you so much. I started watching your video😢about 9 years ago when I got my first pietta and am just now getting into bp carriage shooting and am loving getting to learn from you!
Great tutorial, Mike! Like you, I learned bp cartridge loading by trial and error. Way back....when none of this information was readily available as it is today. Went down the same rabbit hole with grease cookies, etc., too. I also load my cartridges using the same method you use, to determine powder charge and compression. Very consistent and makes good loads, once a person gets the hang of it. Looking forward to the next reloading segment.
Hey Mike its great getting another video Sir….. they are def a treat so thank you for all you do!
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
I have really been wanting to get into BP loading. This video definitely gives me confidence to do that. Thanks
Reloading is easy to start - just go slow and pay attention The most important thing is to develop habits and organization that will prevent errors like double loading Good organization is when things are organized so errors can't happen - there are many individual ways that work. It is important imo not to start with a progressive press, you might get so frustrated you quit the hobby. Most people don't need the extreme volume they provide anyway - better to learn how to make a quality reload, then move on to progressive presses if you really need volume and can put up with the finicky adjusting.
Always good to find another upload Mike, greetings to you from England 🏴
This brought back memories of when i started loading black powder shotshells after watching your video on it. i loaded 50 rounds with unlubed fiber wads, SIlly me. After shooting them through my coach gun i was scrubbing wad chaffe and powder fouling out of 2 barrels for what seemed like forever. For the new guys, give lube the respect it deserves. I go 50/50 beeswax and crisco.
When I saw the pictures of the bullets I thought right off about the Union Williams Cleaner bullets I would find here in Virginia while relic hunting. Looks like the modern bullets just improved on the design.
I’m not familiar with those.
NOE Bullet molds, makes a couple of molds that work great for black powder, they have the extra wide Bullet grove to hold a lot of SPG lube, one for the 45 colt is , 454-241rnfp, with hp pins if needed, drops out of mold at .456 before sizing, also 432-216 rnfp for .44 cal, i use it for 44spl, 44-40, or mag , 5 cavity’s, will yield a bunch of Bullets quick,
Mr.Mike I have learned something from this video! This gets me started on reloding black powder cartilage s.Excellent video as usual. David Back.
Great video Mike! I agree %100, shooting black powder cartridge is WAY more fun than shooting smokeless ammo in old guns. I’ve never tried a “Big lube” bullet but they look good. I melt the smokeless lube off and pan lube the bullets with homemade BP lube and they work really well. I put 50 rounds of BP 45 Colt through my converted dragoon without any trouble and it was still going strong.
Now I suppose I'm going to have to transfer that information to my 357 and 38 cartridges, although I do have a book I can use of which I know that I will be using that book but this information has given me the basics. Thank you so much for the tutorial. Have a great day and stay safe and keep your powder dry!
Excellent Mike. One thing, you may not have stressed enough (for newbies sake) that the mark on the dowel is the minimum charge, because it's dangerous to leave air space in BP cartridges. Newbies might think it's just the minimum recommended charge.
have you ever heard of desperado bullets. I have used there bullets and the lube they use works with both blackpowder and smokeless. So far, I have not had a problem
I always learn something from your videos. I've just always thought that all black powder and black powder substitutes should be compressed. I never knew that some should be compressed more than others. I will watch this again in a day or two and take some notes. Thanks
I am told by a man that buys and shoots APP by the case that American Pioneer Powder (Black MZ, Jim Shokey's Gold ) does not like any compression at all.
Nice video. One thing that I always try to point out is to use a natural based lube. Petroleum based products result in "tar-like" fouling, and, as you clearly discussed this is extremely hard to remove. Natural based lubes result in fouling that can be cleaned with soap and hot water.
That's what I do - soap and hot water cleaning, followed by hot water rinse (hot enough to air dry), then protectant of your choice. It has served me well since the 80's.
Mike -
THANK YOU again for being such a wealth of information !!
I’m shooting targets so I don’t need a lot of power, my thought is to go with 2 wads in my 45 and about 21gr of BP, the wads will be a non lube followed by a lubed followed by reg bullet. So I can get a lube without getting it in the gun powder.
Most informative. You have just about talked me out of using black powder unless I can find bullets close to diameter .380" for my revolver. One possibility is finding .375 colt navy bullets and powder coat them to increase the diameter. I do not plan to buy an expensive custom mold. I have sized down 41 colt bullets in the past since I have a mold for that.
My only reason to use black power is concerns with pressure. i know full loads of cartridge black powder will be safe. For smokeless one is guessing on what is safe. The Dutch did load some of their revolver rounds with smokeless, but I only it was done, but can only guess how much unique or similar powder one should use.
My BP experience is limited to 15 years ago when I did CW re enacting (if you can call a bunch of old guys hobbling around a field or park re enacting). We obviously were not shooting projectiles (or even the wadding of the paper the cartridge wrapping it). But, after shooting for over an hour the BP residue in the barrel was really deep and crusty. I imagined what you went through. BTW I was using a smooth bore 50 cal Enfield designed for re enacting to help with fowling issues. At my age, just dealing with shooting and zeroing my (20th century ones) rifles, keeping them clean etc is enough for me, but I enjoy watching your channel a lot. Thanks
Thanks! I’m glad you enjoy it.
Thanks, Mike. I also started loading black powder cartridges in the mid 90's. The only source of information at that time was basically Mike Venturino until you started providing it as well. Made all the same mistakes you described. I have been casting bullets with a large lube capacity design(many different calibers) by Accurate Molds and they work well also.
Good to know!
Thank you for a great video. Can you make a video about what equipment you need to get started with loading black powder cartridges too?
You are talking about a lubri-sizer and a press??
Wow. This is a great video . My problem right now is there is nowhere to buy supplies.
Very useful information. What about 357 and blackpowder?
The answer to your question is "Yes".
I have only loaded for smokeless cartridges and cap & ball before. This was quite instructive and useful, as I have revolvers amenable to such cartridges. I've used Colt Navy and Ruger Old Army since the late 1970s and detail strip them for cleaning after every outing. Has this been necessary? I've witnessed the horror of oxidation that black powder sets into motion. Ivory soap and hot water have prevented it from reducing the revolvers I now have. I'd like to hear how much fouling gets into the action of, say, a Smith & Wesson Model 10 with black powder. That is a set of machinery that I'm disinclined to break down on a regular basis.
It is not necessary, but it is smart. But I rarely detail strip da revolvers shot with black powder. I haven’t found it necessary.
Thanks, Mike. I really appreciate your videos. I’m old to guns but new to black powder and reloading.
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Do you u have a comment about loading antique cartridges with Trail Boss?
Very informative, I don't load any yet but I love learning new loading technics. Great video Thank you
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks a lot for this great vid.
Hopefully I'll get one of those snakebite molds to germany...
Yes please do a video on colt .45 BP loads.
I love this video so much, tons of helpful information in one video! Have you ever tried Acme bullets? They say their lube is compatible with black powder. Do you have an opinion on that?
The big lube bullet website is defunct, what other alternatives are there? Or can I still get the molds from somewhere?
By the way, thank you doing these black powder cartridge videos!! Lots of info i didnt know. Very helpful
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you for replying! A lot of youtubers wont
Very informative. Have you had an opportunity to chronograph the 28, 30, and 33 grain loads? Is there enough difference to change point of impact?
Great information! You are truly the Master Black Powder Alchemist!
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
great vid!!! can you make a vid on cleaning your pistol after shooting
Have you ever used a drop tube to load revolver rounds? In the later 90’s I was loading .44-40 rounds for my stainless Ruger vaquero. The gentleman that I got the load from told me to fill the case to the top and compress it with the bullet. I was using Goex and did not mess the neck on the case up. They shot very well and grouped well. Great video and thank you for the advice.
Yes, but I found it wasn’t necessary. It is much more useful on big rifle cases.
@@duelist1954 Where can I find a drop tube? I have not found one for purchase. Are they all made from pieces? Frontier Western Heritage has one that I think is a Cabelas but I know I need one.
@@SavageMcBeastdog I made mine, I think most people do, but you might try Buffalo Arms
Thank you for sharing with us. You are the Black powder whisperer. Joe Security.
LOL
Great information, big help. I’ve been working on getting the components and tools together to create .38 Special black powder loads. I might have invested in the wrong mold after seeing the ease compared to conventional.
Awesome information Mike. I've beem considering this very press for 357 mag for all my cowboy guns. Still hoping ammo prices come down because it seems supplies are scarce and expensive too. Before the pandemic I held off getting into reloading because it would have only saved .10 cents a round, and not worth the investment and time then. But, we'll see, time will tell.
Outstanding video! I definitely learned some necessary info.
Mike…great video..are Big Lube bullets still available today?
Lol i found the beeswax/olive oil mix by accident about 4 years ago lol
I wont use a wonder wad with out a leather wad under it anymore. They contaminate powder in my experience if not used fairly quickly, sad to say.
Mike, can you show us how you clean the brass to get it shiny again after BP shooting? I’m not sure it’s possible if you leave them out too long. I think maybe hot water and a jar right away would help. But my brass is a bit dark but seems to still work as well.
Hey Mike, website says they drop at .456? Seems big. Do you size or shoot as cast? Thanks!
Thanks for the video! I like to shoot muzzleloaders, but I've been unsure about getting into the cartridge side of it.
Good video Mike, and I have a question in regards to the manufacture of Goex powder, which I understand will be discontinued. After using this product for 40+ years it was very disconcerting to hear this, and will we have to rely on imported propellant's.
Seems like it. I heard that Hodgedon's had a buyer for Goex, but, then, crickets. So, it might have fallen through.
Another great video . Thank you .
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
It is a Mike video so saying it is 'Great' is repetition, but it it GREAT! Thank you!
The powder info is important, but are you using FFF? I would think so, but never assume.
My big question is normal BP loading is by volume, not weight. Now I understand that if you measure the volume and weigh it you can get the same amount much easier, so that is a good way to do it. But how does that compare to the original load of the 45 Colt? I think you said it was lowered to 35 grains for the military round.
I love to shoot my Uberti 45 and reload for it with nice 200 gn RNFP and a not too light load. I have been wanting to try BP to feel the cowboy way of shooting, but had no idea where to start. Now you have helped me along.
Thank you again.
It is basically the Schofield load. All powder is measured by weight, but it is generally dispensed by the volume that holds that weight of powder…black powder, smokeless…same same…only B-P subs are different.
Great video Mike. Are there any reloading manuals or books that are a good resource for black powder cartridge reloading? I would like to start reloading 45 colt and 45-70.
Lyman do a black powder load data book, which has the cartridge data for 45 Colt and 45-70.
Hi Mike
You mentioned that if you use a lubricated felt wad under the bullet to not compress it or the lube would squeeze out. And that makes sense. But I have seen this method (a lubed felt wad under the ball or conical) used in cap and ball shooting, and I do it this way myself, and obviously the lube must be getting squeezed out when you ram the ball home.
One could argue that you typically shoot the cap and ball right away, but the lube would still contaminate the powder as soon as it touches it.
There must be something I am not seeing here.
I have only loaded BP rifle cartridges so far and use the felt wad under the bullet method. My compression is actually the thickness of the wad so I'm sure everything is nice and tight. But I do use an overshot card over the powder in this case. Maybe it would be a good idea on pistol cartridges as well. Either that or overkill, lol.
I used to use either lubed felt wads or a grease cookie under the bullet in black powder cartridges, and I used a compression die to compact the powder before putting in either the cookie or the wad. But, over 20 years ago, I switched to using bullets that carry a sufficient amount of lube, which ended any compression considerations. I cast bullets using the Big Lube bullet designs that Dick Dastardly sells these days. You really can't beat them with black powder.
Thanks for the reply, Mike. I always like that about you, you don't ignore older videos.
I use a lubed felt wad over a shot card in my 45-60 to get a little more lube than what the bullet can handle. I put in the overshot card and then compress the load. Then seat the bullet and it compresses the felt wad. I guess I hoped the overshot card would contain any squeezed out lube.
I haven't tried any pistol cartridges yet...
But like I said, you don't worry about compressing a lubed felt wad if it's under the bullet in cap and ball. Why would you worry about it in a cartridge? I've been trying to wrap my head around that all morning, lol.@@duelist1954
@@pacanis The wads are probably safe to compress. I guess I got conditioned by using grease cookies for years, which are not safe to compress.
Old habits can be hard to break :)
For as dry as my Wonder Lube patches feel I wonder if they can leach anything.
Thanks. @@duelist1954
How would they work in cap and ball? Great info!!!
Like the video! Working on a 9.4 Dutch pistol - just took .400 bullets down to .380 on the lath - guess I'll think about cutting in a bigger lube ring! Is a drop tube silly on a pistol case?? Do you take any precautions for static issues on the bench??
Thanks, Mike! You answered a lot of questions that I've had.
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
In the 19th century, what did they do about lube/black powder fouling? they didn't have big lube bullet designs, so did they just have to clean their bores after 6 shots? I know that paper cartridges often had the bullets dipped in lube, but what about metallic cartridges like the .44 WCF or .45 Colt in black powder?
Jeff I was going to ask the same question. The black powder cartridge era did not last that long, perhaps they never got a solution as effective as Big Lube bullets - or maybe they did. I would be interesting to find out. They had solutions for everything else and had some practices that are better in my opinion than today's, eg I am convinced they had no need or desire to wash their guns with soap and hot water after every time they shot. They were practical and knew running a patch or two with liberal use of grease everywhere worked fine. It does work fine. I have gone nearly a year without soap and hot water, so long as a use the gun weekly and grease well, no sign of corrosion or pitting etc. With only black powder - I would never try that with black powder substitutes - especially Pyrodex. If I tried that with Pyrodex it would not be long before I had a ruined gun.
There are a couple of very good vintage design bullet molds that hold a decent amount of lube. The fact is, they didn’t expect protracted gun battles with revolvers. Most B-P rifle bullets hold a lot of lube, but I think bullet designer expected just one cylinder full of handgun ammo would be expended in any given fight.If you were fighting at handgun range, the fighting was about to be over.
@@duelist1954 Thank you sir!
If you were just using greased wads/wonderwads underneath the bullet, wouldn't you want to use some sort of card underneath all that to prevent the wad from squishing/gunking up or potentially melting into the powder?
Thanks for this video. I've been curious about this.
Do you ever load round ball? I have lots of .454 round ball, and am lazy and don't want to cast 45 LC bullets. I tried some quick and dirty round ball loads with Pyrodex (filled the cases to the top with Pyrodex, round ball over that, whatever compression that gave me, Alox lube on the ball). I didn't have any fouling problems, but it was horrifically inaccurate. Not even hitting the paper at seven yards. Shot some smokeless cowboy loads right after and the gun shot fine, so the issue was my ammunition for sure. I've heard of cowboy action shooters loading round ball 45 LC, I'm just not sure the correct way to do it. I assume a grease cookie or wonder wad under the ball, with real BP lube (and real BP, not that I can find it for sale anywhere), but that's still a lot of powder for a very light projectile, and that seems bad for accuracy, unless my smokeless powder mind is confused.
Thank you sir
Good info for those us getting started
a video well worth making and watching. thank you.
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Enjoy the video thank you
Mike
Very helpful video. I just bought a bunch of 38 short colt shells. I have a Taylors conversation cylinde with an unlined barrel. Taylors recommends to shoot cowboy ammo or 38 special HBWC so it flairs to catch the rifling. How does these .357 diameter bullets catch the rifling for accuracy?
You 38 reloading video answered my question. Thank for all the knowledge transfers.
Does this apply for loading using triple 7 or other non black powder pyrodex
Yes, it also applies to B-P subs.
BP can be compressed safely, pyrodex and 777 cannot.
Question if I may. Can a small pistol magnum primer be used when loading black powder with a lubed wad under the bullet in a 38 Special. I have thousands of mag primers, but very few standard primers left. Can’t find standard primers anywhere. Will a mag primer cause unsafe pressure spikes when loading black powder to your specifications as shown in the video?
I use large magnum primers in B-P .44 and .45 cartridges. I haven’t felt the need in .38, but I do not think they will make it unsafe.
Thanks Mike.
I’m glad that you liked it.
@@duelist1954 I did indeed. I am looking forward to more useful information on this subject.
I like your videos a lot and hope you keep making them for decades to come. I have a question. Is it possible to use an outside lubed bullet, (beeswax and tallow) as you use on your heel-based bullets on regular smokeless bullets instead of a wonder wad?
you only need a little bit of lube for preventing leading in smokeless loads, but i suspect a bp style lube would do the job just as good, just put it on the lube groove
Yes, but the lube groove doesn't hold enough lube to keep the fouling soft. But, if you clean the bore after each cylinder-full, you can get away with it.
@@duelist1954 he does say smokeless so I don't think he is asking about bp
That was pretty much what
I wanted to ask, thanks. I have a bunch of healed externally lubed slugs that I wanted to repurpose to a different cartridge. With my Gasser I had wonderful success with the wonderwads, but with my next purchase the space left in the case is not going to allow too much extra. Trying to make 450 boxers.
@@HircineDaWolf I read it as a question about black powder, he is asking if he can lube a black powder outside lube bullet in the same manner as he sees done with heel based smokeless bullets.
I do similar. Would never change. Do remove primers. No need for the expensive machines unless for 100s of cases. I have a Chinese tumbler, half the size, for UK 50 pounds on ebay. Solid, timer, spare belts, lasted well these past years. Correct here, must use lemon juice or citric acid. Good luck.
Peter.
Opps, right post, wrong video. Sorry.
Peter.
Hey Mike. I’ve read that temperature can affect performance on black powder loads. For instance, very hot or cold weather causing variations in velocity. Will very hot ambient temps cause the lube around a cased bullet to melt and seep into the powder? Like on a hot Arizona desert day?
I have never seen lube contamination from just the lube on the bullet, but I suppose it is possible. If I lived in a very hot climate, I would increase the proportion of beeswax vs tallow in my lube
I use wonderwads in my 36 and 44 cal BP revolvers, I ran the ball home with my powder charge topped off with the wonderland, am I gonna have lube problems with my powder? you said in loading 45 cal bullets you could have problems when you squizzy lube into the poeder?
Wonder wads hold their lube pretty well. You can’t really compress them enough with a C&B loading lever to contaminate the powder. Grease cookies are a different story.
Mike, do you know where we can get the PRS or Mav Dutchman bullets these days? I went on the Dick Dastardly site and tried the number but it looks not operational anymore! Congrats by the way on your recent positive developments!
I'm sorry to say that I do not know of anyone picking up the torch on the Big Lube Bullets.
if you think your shop is messy you need to see my cousin's tool room makes yours look very neat lol
Just curious @duelist1954 what year did the griswold go into production?
Loading a 357 hollow base bullet in a 38 long colt brass for a conversion cylinder in a 1851 revolver. What do I do about lube?
Great video!
I load the 577/.450 Martini Henry on occasion with BP and I have used Pyrodex RS as well as 777 2Fg with LEE 405 grain and 340 grain bullets that I have paper patched as well as lubed with my homemade BP lube.
My question is in regard to GOEX liking a little more compression as opposed to SWISS or Shuetzen. Why is that?
I have had good results with the subs I used too. I just fill the case to where it is full to the base of the bullet with very little compression. Just enough to “snug up” the space really.
I’m saving my GOEX though to shoot on those special occasions when I just want to smell the real BP and see the real BP smoke screen. I’ll mostly be just shooting it in my ol ‘51 Navy for old times sake.
Honestly, I don’t know why. Goex actually performs somewhat better with heavy compression, but with Swiss I get less consistent velocities when it is compressed more than 1/10th of an inch.
Thank you!
Looking forward to your next tutorial!