Chaos vs Tyranids Matt vs Dave Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Battle Report Ep 1
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- 8th Edition Phases: tinyurl.com/y73...
8th Edition First Thoughts: tinyurl.com/yac...
8th Edition Grey Knights vs Necrons (Quirk vs Luka): tinyurl.com/yc8...
Matthew and Dave face off in their ultimate grudge match to see if a complete overhaul of the rules can level the playing field and allow the Chaos a chance to beat their old adversaries, the indestructible Tyranids. - Ігри
Matt you'll have to stop saying I advance these guys when you're moving them normally as advancing units is an actual thing now :P.
It's tough man! New editions always force you to relearn your terminology.
Still love your work :)
I have no idea why they didn't just call it "running" when they were making this edition. In fact, when I get the free version I'm doing a find-and-replace: "advance -> Run"
Because tanks can't run, but they can advance. That's why.
Richard Harris oh it makes total sense. Just thought I'd point it out to Matt so that it doesn't cause confusion, especially for those trying to learn the rules.
venomthropes only protect models with keyword so defiler probably should have shot at tervigon.
Yeah Dave barely seemed to know the rules at all and Matt didn't know them well enough, clearly. I know this is all really new still, but at the same time these rules are short and simple sooo...
I've noticed that a lot of battle reports on youtube have loads of mistakes Oo... can be painful to watch sometime XD... still a good video though lol
As far as I know, if a Venomthrope unit has three models, it protects monsters too.
So Matt's nids are like 1115 points and Daves chaos are only like 850 (with max upgrades...which he isnt using). Like I get wanting to show what can be done with the simpler method...but for a battle report that is supposed to be introductory I feel the impetus is upon you to figure out some level of balance and at least check the points. Chaos was super outmatched.
Nocturn Vaka then play Matched Play, that has actual points?
Don't mean to be sound rude or disrespectful, just adding my opinion.
Meh. It's not like points are perfect either. But I guess they're probably at least closer.
It does seem odd to play a matched play game without using points. I thought the power levels were for narrative and open really.
meaturama Umm then don't respond to my comment?
found the easily butthurt bitch. his name is Meatless.
I can't wait to start playing 40k! I'm excited for Necrons. I love the undead Egyptian aesthetic.
Ok boomer
Hope you are enjoying necrons
@@lamp8900 lamest and most unoriginal saying of all time. You only live on this rock once do it as yourself not everyone else.
Your mother and the sand people okay boomer
EVEN THE NEW RULES CANT STOP MATT MAKING ONES UP
meaturama If you don't care why reply genius?
Watching these two "combat " armies ineffectually slap each other is hysterical.
Steep learning curve.
I really hope that combat doesn't change in 9th
Tip to dave - Shoot the Venomthropes before you resolve shots against the other units if you intend to shoot the Venomthropes that turn anyway. Had you taken out the Venomthrope with those 20 bolter shots, the plasma gun wouldn't have been -1 to hit, etc. Small thing but it can be pretty big if you have more shots going their way.
The plasma shouldn't have been -1 to hit anyway, venomthrope are only covering infantry, not monstrous creatures ^^
I like Miniwargaming, but having the scans to verify such things should be common sense :)
meaturama Oh my god shut up.
For some reason i feel like having lobster for dinner.
Marcus Leander ew
Leave the lobsters alone bro
You could hear the sadness in his voice when his Deamon prince died
I must say, I am liking this new edition. Rules just seem, simpler.
Michael Layman eh, I preferred the more complicated rules myself, it made things feel beefier.
Uh there are tons of units that can tarpit like crazy with all the extra wounds on them.
Catchaclue 22 yay. Cluster-Fest. Just like how AOS games end.
Catchaclue 22 nah its fine I'll just leave combat
You're wrong.
Finally chaos vs Tyranids you haven't done this battle in ages
So real quick, for those that do not know, area terrain is a thing now and at the 17:32 min mark Dave's space marines are at at a -1 AP due to the shot making it a 4+ save, but due to being in the Ruins of the building it is a +1 to Dave's Chaos Space Marines save so his armor save is still a 3+. Also with how area terrain works now woods and such do not block line of site for shooting across the table, but 25% obscurity or them being on the (area terrain) base that the woods or ruins are on that shows the size means that it may or may not get the +1 to its save. This is actually a really big thing now as cover saves are now gone. Now my question is why did he move Deffy when his reaper autocannon has a 36 inch range, as does the heavy bolter, and the battle cannon has a 72 inch range. By not moving Deffy it would have negated the +1 to hit with his heavy weapons, as Deffy was already in range of the Venom Cannons that have the same range as 80% of Deffy's ranged weapons.
Blood for the blood god! skulls for the skull throne! Let the Galaxy burn!! Kill, maim, burn!!
All shall tremble before the mighty Apple of Khorne!!
and the great Khorne flakes
glory to the Tau-va
idan Ben Avi MILK FOR THE KHORNR FLAKES!!'
These 8th ed battle reports are great for helping me understand the changes, glad you guys got the rules early.
12:52 haha, I missed you Dave. Always cool to see you guys battle it out!
Hey guys I noticed something when Matt split the fire of his termagaunts. It's by weapon profile (ie Bolters, flamers, ect.) not model. So All the devourers have to shoot at the same target, and then the flesh borers can shoot into another target. But you cannot fire half your devourers into one target and half into another.
Looks awesome. Seriously, this new edition is getting me back into 40k. I was starting to paint up an IG army last December but gave up after deciding the rules were a bloated mess of cheese and uselessness. Now they're trimmed off so much fat there doesn't seem to be much left but a slick rules system for players to make tactical decisions in.
It's always a special treat to see these guys go at it. Thanks much.
Heavy venom cannons on warriors?! Is that something that changed with the new rules? Because otherwize warriors can't have the heavy variant. Love you guys anyways :)
Nope, I got that one wrong.
Matt is always cheating :P jk
or "forgetful"
What matt said: "im firing into your chaos space marines"
What i heard: "im firing into your cool specimens"
Really awesome batrep guys, enjoyed it a lot especially the speed, it's going to be a beautiful edition :) -Sam
They have already addressed whether you can reroll dice for a model that gives rerolls for units with a certain distance and the answer is you can. The reason being that you are definitely within x" of yourself. This was mentioned on WarhammerTV and from memory on their FB as well.
8th looking good! Nids making a come back?! My Dark Eldar's trophy cases look like they're about to be filled with a surplus of chitin and teeth....
The new rules has some pretty serious structural issues. The Armour saving and BS modifiers mean that shooting heavy armies are disadvantaged from turn one, especially with the move+advance+charge combos (meaning that turn one charges are not going to be uncommon).
Additionally, structurally these rules favour armies which can put more physical models on the field, especially with the removal of the templates, and the way in which large weapons assign wounds per model, rather than per unit. This is compounded in that lots of shooty armies depend on vehicles carrying the crowd control weapons are disadvantaged when they rely on mobility, therefore disadvantaging these weapons further.
The wound system for vehicles, and the lack of armour values for sides also means that there is no way a vehicle can fight from a hull down or static position and greatly benefit from remaining static, the BS trade off is simply not worth it without the ability to utilize templates.
Perhaps the pessimist in me, but it doesn't seem like the intent of the new rules set was to produce a more balanced game, or even to produce to a faster, more fluid game. That all could have been done by going back to 5th or 6th edition, with a couple of changes to the rules, without taking the nuance. Instead this seems like a business decision on behalf of Games Workshop to reduce costs in their production by transferring production to cheaper, more modern molds for a new model range, by boosting the sales of flagging revenue (as alot of people are going to be drawn by the new ranges of models, and having to buy books just to play with models they already own) and by seriously decreasing the entry bar required to get into the hobby and start investing in an army.
These are not necessarily criticisms, but rather an honest assessment of where I see our hobby going. More people playing is universally a good thing, but forcing me to buy another book to play with models that I've already bought with a codex I've already bought is kind of taking the piss. And Games Workshop, this wasn't a 'customer centric' decision, this was a business decision, plain and simple.
Mac and Dennis of the warhammer world
Dude. Those models are painted fucking beautifully.
The biggest problem I see so far is how tightly packed units and models can be now on the table. Formerly blasts necessitated spreading your units and models out and this seems to be encouraged by the tightness of things like the venomthropes ability. Why remove characters joining units to avoid the deathstar issue and then take steps where entire armies can viably deathstar
You two guys are the best!
Following your videos for years and you haven't lost
anything of your spirit. And it is the combination of Dave's chaotic behaviour
and Matt's tactical and analysing playstyle, which makes these videos so very
enjoyable.
Thanks guys! Really. Thanks to you.
-Darko
I actually thought Dave would win this match. It seems Tzeench had other plans.
They've thought about the "can you reroll your own 1s" thing - on the bottom right of the Shooting Phase page you'll find "Aura Abilities", and it says "unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
Needs more Dave on batreps :)
I like what they did with the former blast weapons. It makes them more balanced by making them less effective against blobs, but also more effective against solo and low model count units. They're more uniform in their effect and that gives the user a wider choice of targets. Before, you'd never consider using a battle cannon on just one model unless there was literally nothing else to shoot at. Now, it's a reasonable choice. I like having more options.
YEAH it is finally out. FINALLY.
Lets see if it is as good as wargaming hopes it is. I am more then expecting allot of complaints about "But this is how we did it in the past." In short, the usual.
Oh, it's as good as we hope. :)
miniwargaming
(Laughs hysterically)
miniatures with wings have a minimum movement, Daemon Prince 1 more for FAQ .. or 8" normal move it the minimum so 8"-12". has to be the movement stats for Prince, what do you think ?
Some models with wings have a minimum movement. If they do they will have 2 values on their movement profile
So far.......this is really interesting. It seems infantry got kind of nerfed big time,unless you play tactically going cover to cover which is really interesting as well,a much bigger emphasis on vehicles and transports which is awesome too. Vehicles also getting buffed is AWESOME!!! So far I am so excited,I play AoS and I'm so happy to see the wound chart back and balanced. Reserves at any time etc... I see this being really good.
I wouldn't say Infantry got nerfed. I actually feel it's the opposite now that everything can hurt everything.
The entire meta has changed. It's hard to even compare to 7th edition because the mechanics are so different. Strength 4 is totally different now. Leadership has a new meaning. No more initiative. Movement values for each unit. It's really hard to even think it's the same game.
miniwargaming definitely,I guess I used too broad of a statement. I guess I meant armor saves,seeing space marines fall so easily is new to me. I'm used to Termies and Tacticals take more punishment,but yes everything seems so new
I am a very, very old and crusty wargammer (45 yrs old) and to me, and when i got back into 40k last year the rules just felt overly complex and unweildly, especially vehicles. Been a subscriber for mini wargamming for a long time.
To me, this game now is a lot closer to the simpler and more enjoyable original edition (which I have proudly sitting in my bookshelf), different movement values.
To me, it looks like quality infantry now matter a lot more, large and expensive units need to be carefully thought about before deploying, i'm very tempted to field a large marine army (I went mental and got the limited edition set with all the codexes) because i enjoyed forming 'firing lines' or 'gun lines' with lots of basic tactical marines.
Looking forward to 8th edition!
@ Adamus39 Interesting that you would say that, playing Dark Angels Deathwing lists, I feel like my Terminators actually last longer in this edition as opposed to 7/6th edition. Especially considering that Armor saves aren't entirely negated by AP2/1 weapons(Most seem to have -1 or -3). Now, a lot of weapons that would wipe out my entire squad, I get to make 3+ or 4+ armor saves before having to resort to my invulnerable save, and even if I lose that, it doesn't necessarily mean they die, as most of the high Damage weapons are busy focusing on what vehicles I brought to the game. Even playing Orks, I feel like Meganobz, or for any list basically anything with a 2+ Armour save, is actually worth taking again.
Admittedly, after probably 6+ games under my belt of 8th (I do 8th edition demo-ing for my local hobby store) I will say that matches are faster and much more brutal than the last two editions, and even maybe more so than 5th, but for a war-game, I don't think that's a bad thing.
The Logic Bombers definitely,that comment was just a first impression as I unfortunately haven't been able to afford the transition to 8th yet (buying the rule books). But again I worded my statement terribly haha because I'm definitely not used to it being that brutal I guess. I'm very excited to see models wiped off the field very quickly. 7th edition was the only one I have played so I don't have much context to the other editions but so far I very much like this edition. But I am definitely excited! Definitely much more thought into the tactics on the battlefield and the thought behind building your list!
40k Gameplay guys! Flamers though should either: Always hit the closest unit, or hit all units in the way.
Midnight Release gaming? Dave sounds sickly... Probably from not providing enough BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
Dave The Great Khan of Chaos
Unfortunately Dave was missing the additional 3 claw attacks that the prince gets every combat which could have helped shift things in his favour. I'm interested to see how the new rules play for myself since it seems like being able to take a move diverse set of weapons (like Matt did) seems like the better choice overall than just spamming dudes like Dave did.
1 additional attack, not 3. He didn't swap his sword for a second set of talons.
Actually my confusion was with the Juggernaught since that always gives 3 attacks.
Are Orks and Tyranids in the same Index?
Yes, Xenos 2.
Excellent! I play Tyranids and my brother plays Orks!
Yes
8th rulebook page 179 side bar Aura Abilities: "Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect."
^answers the question at 1:16:00 no faq needed. even gives an example of a deathguard character buffing himself.
Dave screwed up. Against an army like this, he should have backed up wide right with his CSM and pulled his Defi left. Bubble wrap Defi with Cultists to protect against the Raveners, blow away the Venomthropes. Then, even if he does pull the Summon charge move to catch up with the CSM, he leaves his Termagon incredibly exposed, which is where the Daemon Prince can swoop in and murder. The Exocrin is tricky, but I think that Defi could have murdered him or you could have sent the Cultists after him once they dealt with the Ravener.
Should have, could have, would have.
It is easier to coach from the couch I'll admit.
I'm pretty sure it is very much intended for the demon prince to give himself the reroll (or for the venomthropes to give themselves the cover) since in the rules there is a box on the side specifically stating, tgat a model is always within range of itself. I think it actually gives a similar reroll ones to hit ability as an example, that would also apply to the model granting the ability.
Is Dave sick? His voice sounds off. Nice battle report.
I would really appreciate seeing an even army fielded by Matt and Dave and see who would win. Just by looking at the model count alone Dave was already at a disadvantage, along with other things like upgrades, fielding cultists etc.
Really not a fan of building lists off of power level only. So much of the strategy of 40k is just left out entirely that way. You should have to make tough choices when making a list
it's for people who want to hit the table faster. Tournament play will almost always be points based.
I'm not saying Power Level is better than Points, I'm just saying they both have their pros and cons. With Power Levels you can quickly build a list, while with Points you can theoretically balance the game more.
Both are fun.
Matched has more precise balance, but power level is a lot easier to get a game going. If you take your army to get in some games at a store or something, its a lot easier to play someone with a smaller force if you can just leave out units without having to fully re-calculate your army list.
Normal points are a pisstake to make an army initally, since each model doesn't come with wargear. It takes ages, especially with Deathwatch where everyone has special weapons. The points itself work, but it took 20 mins to make a 1000pts list.
We're not even feeling the real benefit of the new point system yet. Let's say GW needs to adjust the points of a bolter. Now they just bump the cost of a bolter, rather than bumping the cost of each unit that has the bolter, and then adjusting costs on any piece of wargear that replaces a bolter.
In the end Matt mention if they will FAQ the Daemon Prince giving himself the rerolls to 1.
I doubt they will do that, since it specifically say in the rules that "aura" abilities like that also affect themselves.
I'm really, really not feeling the " Can't shoot characters unless they are closest" rule. Sure it makes sense for Tau, eldar or guard since characters can reasonably blend in with the troops, but stuff like warbosses or other flashy big guys? A flying daemon prince of all things? It makes you feel like your seasoned, highly trained warriors of the future are prone to sudden idiocy.
NItpick : Really don't like how this edition embraces plasma fail re-rolls, with new overcharge rules it almost feels like it enforces you to either spam plasma and keep them within 6 inches of the new generic "re roll 1 to hit" trait characters, or not take them at all.
d0nutwaffle plasma has two profiles. The first does not kill you. It's only when you super charge the gun. So you decide if the risk is worth it.
its a rule they had to take because its in AoS. These are copy pasted rules, theres no thought about it making sense. All the differences from AoS are things they are probably updating there soon...
Binge Bammer That's an opinion. "If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter." Pascal
Binge Bammer I hope you right because that would fix AoS somewhat. The differences are what makes 8th work and AoS suck.
@wftitus Yes it makes Great sense that vehicles stand next to each other and flap their doors trying to kill each other. super sense, much tactical, such fluff
I love this new edition so much. Not having to micromanage vehicle sides and armor along with the vehicle attack rules from 7th is so nice!
Q_Q i trully prefer the old point system
The new actual points system (not power levels) is actually better because it's more granular. In the past they tried to keep things in 5 point increments; which throws some stuff out of whack especially in comparison with each other.
Loving the new streamlined 40k, I stopped playing around 6th due to over complex rules layered upon rules and started playing other games. But now i'm looking at going back to the system, never thought I'd see that day.
Very cool guys! why not use the full points method? :)
We definitely will, but the Power Level system is such a quick and easy way to build lists, and right now the points are really annoying to use as they are all at the back of the book and split up between wargear and models.
miniwargaming I actually believe the power system is going to bring another level of balance because it gauges the actual worth of units and the bonuses for power imbalance could become decisive
I disagree, Sigismund. Since the Power Level is measuring the potential strength of a unit you always pay too much if you don't go all out on it.
Points is what gauges the actual worth of a unit with it's actual equip. It's much better balance-wise.
saschapanzer yet time and time again I saw games where despite point balance infantry heavy armies got decimated by machine/monster focused armies however that may be a result of the general poor balance units had in 7th we'll have to see
I'm optimistic about points as they cheapen infantry and now anything can theoretically wound anything while heavy units got more expensive
psykers I'm not 100% sold on their new rules though and morale is going to be harsh on horde armies
Just because GW fails to cost units and gear properly it doesn't mean the system itself is at fault unlike with the power level system which is flawed itself. It's nice for quick pick up games but if you want real balance you should go for points after all.
Thanks for my first look into 8th edition! Really looking forward to this edition with all the changes.
So Is 8th edition Age of Sigmar in Space ?
Afan Nr5 Pretty much.
Afan Nr5 no, this is just the 40k end times before 40k AoS
Afan Nr5 unfortunately yes.
Not really. It's like 40k second edition redux more than anything else,
OniFeez it took a while for 8th edition fantasy to hit end times... but the imperium is about to split, and the warp storm is only getting stronger
Also dont forget venomthrope cloud spore only affect infantry models keyword, not those biggies. The only model that also let your monsters benefit from the spore cloud thingy its the Malanthrope, but hes alot more expensive points wise.
Also try to remember reserves you will lose em on turn 4 if you didn´t deployed them. (thats the counter for free roll no scatter to get em on).
Termagants re-roll wound rolls of 1 if there 20 or more (their 1st shooting you had a couple wound rolls of 1 right there).
Chaos Space Marine 1st plasma shoot with the re-roll wound go down to 1 from that 2 (cause of the nearby venomthrope) re-roll apply before modifiers.
It's time!
to go to church because with trump as president and 8 edition not even the emperor can save us.
Whats up with all the loser ass Emperor haters my god
I play Tyranids and Chaos as my two main armies and i'm so conflicted on who i want to win
I was watching the batrep and I was like "hey it looks pretty ok" and then the assault phase happened. Way too many restrictions on close combat, especially for large units, but pretty ok for elite squads. Ork players prepare to cry
Datheavyguy I guess larger squads can pull other units into combat when they charge and pile in. it works out way better against gun line armies that previously tore them to shreds.
Datheavyguy I guess Actually, I played a game against Orcs yesterday... they are officially the scariest thing ever!
Considering that you now are allowed to fire pistols while in combat.
Loved it. Can't wait for Matt to roll out some narrative campaigns with the new system.
is it just me or is this Age of Sigmar in space? disappointed, they took my favorite game and undid so much of what made it fun. it's gonna be more balanced and I guess shooting is a bigger thing in this than AoS but almost the same thing.
Logan Lough AoS did turn into good game, though.
Dok Scrofula I personally never enjoyed it but after watching more batreps and army overviews I'm excited to try this new game system.
8th Edition is current !
on rules: you have to move with "Inch tape measure" without these you barrely didnt know how many inch you moved its quite obviously the worst thing you could do
all your units have the "B = it stands for Bewegung in the german codex but i think in the english codex it will be not B it will be M for move and there is a number under it so this unit can only move *example = 8"
Can you do a big amazing apocalyptic battle between to celebrate the end of 7th edition
Nope. Sorry!
miniwargaming could you do one between you and matt
😆Wow! Shut down just like that, huh miniwargaming? 😆
I think if Dave switched the bolt guns for chain swords it would have been much different. That would have been around 40 extra attacks in that big brawl which probably would have given him the momentum to smash the tarpit. Kind of a jack of all trades unit those marines, having an icon for charging with shooty weapon
matt with the 'unsportsman' like play telling dave tervagon isnt good in combat and then 1 shots his hq with it, this is why hes my least favorite miniwargamer. poor form dude.
scott b I once killed a maxed squad of Terminators with a Liberian with a non boosted force staff.
scott b
What other options did Dave have? As we saw it would basically be impossible for Dave to win as long as the Tervigon was alive, so who would the prince attack if not the tervigon?
Frankly, Dave lost this match in the list building phase.
yeah his list wasnt great and nothing stopped him from checking the stats himself, he also wiffed in combat. but matt down played his dude to draw him in, in a friendly game just seems like a bit of a douche move. as for better targets to charge, well you have apoint and i see what you mean. he wasnt in the best spot at that point.
He actually should have charged the warriors with his demon prince and destroyed them.
Oh come on, Matt plausibly explained why he thought his Tervigon sucked. Plus he got lucky, and Dave was unlucky.
Your bat reps are much better than even GW's! Well done guys.
I'm not liking the new rules........
Nice game guys. While today was not your day Dave, you will have vengeance one day.
Can't wait to get my own 8th edition battle reports out.
welcome to 40k, the END times
It's only cheaper to add on more guys to a unit when you are using Power points. The initial cost takes into account the Champion's cost and the special weapon options. Past the initial investment you are just getting extra bodies. This will be very different when you use points to purchase your units.
17:40 dave is in cover, so his 3+ saves become 2+, and your rend reduces him back to 3+, so he should have passed
Actually no, because a unit has to be completly in cover to get the bonus and some of the marines were not in cover.
He had a few guys out of cover, so no cover bonus.
quick tip: always remove the models in the open first so you get your cover save once all the remaining models in the units are in cover
I love how one of the terrain pieces is a hide for lizard terrariums. I literally own the same ones for my gecko.
i went into this with an open mind , but im sorry , this just isnt much fun to watch . maybe itll get better when everyone's used to it but it really does seem like AoS with guns
disappointing to be sure.
Exactly.
It *is* AoS with guns, only with even less flavor.
ya being similar to a better system that is balanced sounds really disappointing.
you're joking? AOS destroyed WFB for me and many people I know...
"No no, dave. Charge the big monster. He's awful. Trust me." :D
Forge World is the only talent left at Games Workshop, how long before they get forced to make this boring, "accessible", garbage too I wonder.
media.giphy.com/media/hppWdK8gcmzXq/giphy.gif
Loken aye so salty, tasty salt, iz so salty
Its not like they have updated the game before. Oh wait!
i smell a tau and eldar player
Great report! love how the new game flows and the choices that are presented. That Tervigon is a beast, and so cool.
Those morale rolls annoy me greatly though. "6 just die" ... from what? fear? such BS :/
The fluff for it is that they're running away not dying.
Breaking. Running away. How does that not make sense? Either way, making sense is hardly a prerequisite for a miniature wargame. :)
Its just something that bothers me. Not that i'm complaining about 8th in its entirety. This is literally the only thing that irks me. (ill get over it) Also, i thought you guys didn't bother with replying on UA-cam? Reading comments because you are interested in the general opinion about 8th? Vault member here. I realy hope you guys give UA-cam some more loving, perhaps you could in the future place vault video's on youtube after 6 months or a year? There are alot of people who earn their money from UA-cam and its ads alone. (although i realise you are getting to large to fund with ads alone) ... or get an alternative on Vimeo because their video streaming service seems sub par to me. (vault vids stop to buffer at least once for me). Cheers!
Basically its to represent units that are "no longer in combat" (what the local gw rep said). Those guys could be tending to the injured, have suffered non life-threatening but still disabling injuries, or just ran away.
I think having units losing a few models to moral makes a lot more sense than the entire unit tyrning around and running in cohesion until they all decide to turn back around and fight.
I only have two games under my belt, but defy has a lot more aggressive potential from what I've seen. You can move up, shoot everything with only -1 to hit, and charge. Defy has d6 dmg on his claws and gets 3 attacks off of the power scourge that do a flat 3 dmg each wound too.
Something about the new mechanics just feels so I don't even know, not 40k. Some of the new stuff makes sense, some of it is utterly nonsensical. It feels so cheap, it's like Dawn of War 3 tabletop version. Just throw blobs at each other and watch them die. I wanna know what genius decided to get rid of templates.....that is blasphemy.
This game was only at 50 Power Level, and Dave took large blobs. In our other games you'll see more diversity in units and tactics.
they don't feel 40k, because this is effectively "Age of Sigmar+". while it gave GW a basis to balance that they're more used to... let's be honest, they're not a game company.
Judge Lazar yeh, the no templates thing is really retarded.
Judge Lazar you might as well smash your models together and make gun noises. that has more depth than this edition. My advice, start playing 30k or move to another company's game system entirely.
oh you mean those things that slowed down the game and caused arguments over how many hits people were getting. seriously anyone that is complaining about the new changes is just an old wizard talking about back in the good ol days we had this this and this and anything different is bad. the game plays so much faster and there is next to no debate over issues that came up in previous editions. not only that the game is incredibly balanced. not once have i seen units that are broken yet. no more grav spam no more deathstars no more 6's to hit flyers, psychic spam with next to no opponent interaction or ridiculous cover saves. everything is viable. you don't need 100's of pages of rules to make a good game. if you people talking trash about this edition cant see how this rejuvenated a game that was spiraling out of control, than sell your models and get out we don't need you anymore
In a small game like this since shooting to the venomthropes still gets the -1 to hit, it's cost effective to target them and not go with the heavy guns straight to the enemy heavy guns (or heavy monsters).
Also going against a creature that you wound on a 5 even if you do 3 damage, and the creature wounds you easy with huge possible damage is not a good plan cause you MAYBE can do something, but the other guy will SURELY do something.
For example the deamon prince would have been amazing vs the warriors, and i mean like killing 5 warriors in 1 turn alone easily.
Also never go for the guys that respawn for free, kill the guy who backlash them or if you can't kill everything else, like the biovore was 1 point, the exocrine another 1, the warriors 2, with these + the venom the game was auto won.
I don't know why people are complaining really. I think everyone needs to try 8th edition before judging. The new rules are a lot of fun. Really digging a lot of the changes they made. Don't be afraid of change.
Dave's Apple of Khorne gets me every time
that silence after the steal the initiative roll
A perfect match up for the long awaited "new" era of war!
There are some rules errors I believe more i think in the Vault game then here but i want to address them universally because I don't remember were they happened at. You can have mortal wounds with things that would be considered feel no pain previously in 7th unless it states it saves mortal wounds like nids catalyst. I don't see anywhere that says you cant use smite or physic powers when in Close combat like pistols but in physic phase. Lastly is more of a question of how you would save D3 wounds with things like Feel no Pain in 7 th because each army has it written differently i.e. Some say unsaved wounds so you'll you roll the D3 then you'd make a save for each were others say if the save is failed roll on a 5 plus discount the wound. I'd think the first example I'd roll the D3 and you'd have to save all 3 separately where the second you'd roll once before they roll the D3 wounds. Sequencing question.
I haven't dug through the rules yet to check but at least in AoS you are allowed to break unit coherency when you are in combat. So in the example in this BP the dude would have just piled in as normal. Assuming they carried that over from AoS. Great stuff, guys! Keep 'em coming!
Lucias Meyer You can retreat in 40k now too :-) Dave should have done that to go after the warriors.
That big damn tree is an awesome pice of terrain
Been following these guys for years and spikey bits. best things for mini war gamers man. Outside of some little errors with new editions for anything that gets released it is basically learning a whole knew game. Matt just a heads up the cumulative Markerlights and not having to spend them makes a huge difference. Also Stealt Suits, and Ghostkeels with advanced targeting system are things of beauty play tested that today. Also 2 hammerheads one of them being longstrike with twin SMS and railguns is crazy good. It actually puts off almost the same firepower of a broadside when you use the submunition and is actually cheaper than the broadside. Mind you the broadside with twin high yield missile pod, twin smart missile system and Advanced Targeting system is a bloody army killer with its 16 shots coming off of it with SMS being (heavy 4, st 5, AP0 "now AP -1 due to ATS", and D -1) the HYMP is now (Heavy 4, St 7, AP-1 "now AP -2 due to ATS) and D- d3) mind you the twin heavy rail rifle is nothign to scoff at it has 1 purpose to kill monsters, and vehicles with it this stat line (range 70", heavy 2, ST8, AP-4, D- d6 "any 6 on to wound rolls it is an additional mortal wound added). The Hammerhead is 8 shots with SMS (heavy 4, st 5, AP-0, D - 1) and the railgun is a thing of beauty.
You guys should try something like Rubrics versus Primaris marines, or Khorne Berzerkers VS Primaris, or even regular marines versus primaris, see how they match up.
I got into Warhammer just to play the Tyranids. Watching Matt play tells me I made the right decision. FOR THE HIVE MIND!!
FOR THE HIVE MIND!!!!!
A nice design thingy is that any model with more than 10 wounds has it's stats effected.
in the core rules there is a side note that specifies that the character counts himself within his aura
really big error that costed Dan the victory: venomthropes do not give their bonus to tervigons, only to infantry. That was a really big one that would have made the game compleatly different
"Sometimes a physic power or ability will allow you to add units to your army, or replace units that have been destroyed.....In a matched play game, you must set aside some of your points in order to use these units" Unless I am missing something, no matter what the units spawned by the Tervigon would have to be paid for under match play.
That's replace "units" not models. We interpreted that to mean that powers that let you heal models (like Apothecaries for example) don't cost points.
as a veteran since 3rd (not quite a Dreadnought yet) I think this is probably the best edition yet, due to the reasons people have already stated points are way way tighter now and more balanced because of it, power points are great for plug and play and narrative games so why are people complaining? well done mini wargaming as usual aswell (though the cheeky application for heavy venom cannons) was a bit mean haha, why don't we all just play the game a while before drawing judgement on it? also the new city fight rules etc are fantastic! happy wargaming y'all
Been a while since i've watched MWG batreps. Dave's Cod and Kale + WORKIN' OUT LIKE A MADMAN has proven successful.
This is a perfect example of the problems with the power level system. They both had equal points/pwer level worth of units but Matt was able to bring a TON more special weapons way more than dave.
Yeah, each model had at least a dozen extra points worth of special upgrades and weapons. Dave didnt have many at all
Great batrep guys, glad to see some nid action. Just kept thinking "clever girl" with the tervigon. So, seems Tyranids are more deadly than previously in close combat and even ranged...obviously only seeing a few units.
So far my least favorite part is building lists, as I have to look at the squad page, to see what they do. Then look at the weapons list page, to see what they can take.
Then the unit and weapon price page(s), to see the prices of everything.
Sometimes I forget what can take what, what items comes stock with models (which is not included with the model prices, even when some models don't have options) or when I see a item option I didn't think about and have to flip back to make sure what can take it. All the while looking at the detachments list.
I ended up making cheat sheets with option and prices just so I don't have to keep flipping back and fourth for stuff that used to be on two pages.
The only nice thing is that some item profiles are with the squad pages.
Although that feels redundant when there is a list of all of them on one page.
Isn't list-building everyone's least favorite part? heh-heh.
Those dice are truly evil Dave, Infested with the dark powerrrrsssszz of Chaos.
Should have fired at the Nid HQ unit with everything. It's -1 to hit the venimthrops or -1 to hit anything else so it's irrelevant
what you shoot at. Kill the most deadly creature first. Fighting Nids 101: Rule 1, shoot the big one. And half the power of the Deflier is in CC, if you wanted to use it as a static gun platform, take a preditor. Move the Deflier, get it up into close combat. Seriously, the Deflier would have owned the Nid warlord.