Thank you everyone for your feedback! We should've clarified in the video that we were discussing Domestic V8 vehicles. These are the high performance vehicles that we primarily focus on. So for the last question, "What manufacturer mixed both types of fuel systems to get the best of both worlds?" we technically meant out of those particular vehicles we specialize in. We understand that foreign manufacturers and other non performance vehicles might have introduced this dual setup first.
Why would you modify the last question to fit the answer? The most common comment in here is that Ford was late to the Dual Injection Strategy. Ford didnt produce a v8 with direct injection until 2018... Another viewer pointed out the LT5, and it is the only GM v8 I found that uses Port and Direct Injection, Chrysler/ Dodge/Ram v8s do not use t utilize direct injection at all. If the revision of what the question was supposed to pertain to is true then the answer you give is that the 2018 and newer 5.0 Ford v8 used dual injection strategies to before the Corvette exclusive LT5... Do those engines comprise your primary focus? That is a narrow scope answer to the industry's move towards using Port and Direct injection so: Are you sure you meant to answer "FORD"?
Toyota combined port and direct injection back in 2012, called it D4-S and used it on the toyota 86/BRZ. idk if toyota were the first but ford definitely was not.
The Lexus LC500 and IS 500 equipped with a 5.0-liter V8 engine that is part of the Yamaha-developed family. It's known for its performance and is designated as the 2UR-GSE engine. Carbon buildup on intake valve not occur due to dual port injection. Gasoline will wash over intake valve.
What about Ford Duratec HWDA engine (this engine typically uses Siemens port fuel injection system), how long this engine lasts, what kind of symptoms or issues are there and so on? When this kind of engine (like HXDA / HWDA etc) could "wear out"?
So I've a 2016 Ford Focus 2 .0 L I 4 GDI engine . Is it a real concern for carbon buildup and loss of performance and what can we do to prevent this ? Any good cleaners we can add to tank ? It's not necessarily a huge concern ? It seems as if gas cleaners such as I've mentioned only treat the gas itself ? Any help will be greatly appreciated
Fuel additives won't work because carbon deposits on DI engines are caused by not introducing fuel into the intake ports. If there's no fuel getting into the intake then even all the fuel additives in the world won't help.
I'm looking at having to clean my valves in my direct injection motor. It looks like a hell of a job. To make things worse, they put a valve that recirculates the dirty exhaust back into the intake for emissions. So not only are the valves not being cleaned by the fuel, but they're actively being showered with carbon deposits. Who thought this was a good idea? Anyone?
@@mpchappelle yeah, I'd say that's a factor, but it wouldn't be a problem with dual or port injection. Also egr system is literally constantly putting dirty air through the intake valves.
@@mountaindew267 Dude. If you seal that system, you're gonna over pressurize the crankcase. Then your gaskets are gonna start to leak over time. Look into a catch can if you have DI. And it's a factor with all engines. Even new cars have blowby. And if you disconnect it so it doesn't reroute, you'll just get a vacuum leak.
@@mpchappelle do you know what egr is? It has nothing to do with crank case pressure. Obviously blow by needs to be vented, but egr doesn't need to be a thing for any reason besides emissions.
Hi, I know I will sound weird but I have a question about meth injection. In europe we can't access that easily , so I would like to know how ethanol would compare
I have one question about gdi, so my question is "isnt true that GDI system more have hot temperature then PFI system, because PFP when piston move from bottom dead center to top dead center ,the fresh air from filter and mix with cool fuel come to the cilinders and wash off the head piston that make the temperature down because of that.. Nice content , i from indonesia
have a look at orbitaluav.com.au low-pressure GDI. it uses a low pressure air-pump to atomize the directly-injected fuel. years back, many major companies looked at this setup but for some reason, elected to just go with HPDI. guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay the royalty fee.
The ground work based on high pressure direct diesel injection had already been laid out before the OEMs took direct injection to market. It is less of a headache to be able to modify the architecture of fuel injection by adding a high pressure fuel pump and injectors, rather than to add an air compressor system to accomplish a similar feat. A low pressure air pump is incapable of efficiently delivering the fuel quantity into the combustion chamber when the piston is nearing top dead center . That is where high pressure direct injection outclasses other methods. Heavy duty diesel engines that are already equipped with an air compressor for brake/suspension systems use to utilize compressed as the force to actuate egr, boost control, VGT, aftertreatment fuel injection, fan clutch control etc but are commonly adopting electronic control instead.
@@3sgteleak was wondering why you referred to diesel when i was referring to gasoline when i looked at the vid again at 2:34 and noticed reference to "common rail" which is usually a diesel term. the vid also references existence of both low and high pressure pumps in the engine(s) they were talking about. you make a few good points...one of which is about high-pressure and top-dead-centre...but orbital low-pressure DI had been used to research HCCI (operates similar to diesel but uses gasoline) before and according to past orbital research papers, their system can be used regardless pf cylinder-stroke position although most of these besides the HCCI ones do seem to only relate to gasolines. i think it was the Ford Genesis program that had a few hundred Orbital low-pressure DI 2-stroke engine powered hatchbacks that operated for a few years. anyhow, disregarding diesel engines...ALL gasoline DI engines these days seem to be of the high-pressure variety which needs the addition of a dedicated high-pressure pump when low-pressure ones are already integrated for pumping fuel etc... orbital low-pressure DI predates HPDI in diesels and was originally developed as part of the novel "orbital engine". the DI technology component was hived off to improve 2-stroke emissions when the company founder and board realized that auto majors were not interested in novel non 4-stroke engines. the hope then was auto major would be more interested in cleaner 2-strokes due to power advantage but this was not to be. so now....orbital only concentrates on military heavy-flex fuel UAV engine applications.
@@wl88168 That is a pretty nifty design (the orbital engine). To be honest I didnt know about it, and the website that i found from the link you provided didnt provide insight to the combustion operation. Since your most recent reply I have only started to grasp the design you were referencing. I mentioned diesel technology because that is the closest relative to gasoline DI that I am aware of. Obviously we know these are spark ignition engines, and not diesel but a lot of the tech is shared between both systems Though at 1/10th the pressure of I just think that it is easier to add more pressure to the fuel system than it is to add another system to the engine. Perhaps OEMS are currently working on the Obital injection strategies to achieve HCCI as the next step to keeping the ICE viable against the electric rivals. If Orbital Injection tech works effectively to attain HCCI then i feel like manufacturers will employ it when they need another secret weapon. Reverting to the subject of 2 stroke diesels and unconventional engine design: Have you seen the progress that Achates has made? The youtube videos are pretty dismal but Cummins has contracted their tech to build 3 cylinder 6 piston engines for the US military.
@@3sgteleak i doubt the auto companies are looking into Orbital and HCCI anymore...from memory, i think it kinda worked but was too unreliable, complex and expensive. have a look at the "Lotus Omnivore Concept Engine." Orbital themselves have not indicated that they're still pursuing business in the auto sector but i'm sure they won't refuse if there's further interest. another interesting aside, there was a company (can't remember the name) years ago that employed the Orbital low-pressure Direct Injection process and optimised it to drive an engine at optimal constant speed maximising energy conversion to efficiently charge a battery as part of a hybrid-elecric vehicle set up before hybrids and/or electrics became a thing.... i'd be wary of pining any hopes on any novel non 4-stroke engines getting anywhere...many companies with novel engines have been trying for decades to go mainstream or mass market without success. the barriers to entry and acceptance are just too numerous and high. i'll look at Achates sometime...first i've heard of it. i'll swap you for another one... have a look at revetec.com. this company has been around for ages too. OR "split cycle engines."
This helped me understand that I'm not interested in trusting a direct injected truck motor to make it past 150k miles without having to replace multiple fuel pumps and injectors that run off the cam. Gonna be a pass from me.
Yet Ford has some of the least reliable cars like the rest of the American manufacturers. So regardless of what "port + direct" ford does ecoboost has proven to be not that reliable.
@@TheTuningSchool To me it distracted from what you were trying to convey. I don't know if it is my computer or if it is just what everyone thinks is cool, but most YT creators think blaring music is cool or something. I turn off videos that have music that way too loud. I have to turn up the volume to hear the person talking then the music blows out my ears and it's very annoying to me... But I guess to each his own... Thanks!!!!
@@dannywilsher4165 Thanks for the feedback. We are always working on improving both our content and the quality of our videos. We will definitely keep that in mind for the upcoming episodes. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
"Me and Tony are going to do something?" "Me" doesn't do anything. "Me" will never do anything. Why do children completely go moron when faced with personal pronouns?
Thank you everyone for your feedback! We should've clarified in the video that we were discussing Domestic V8 vehicles. These are the high performance vehicles that we primarily focus on. So for the last question, "What manufacturer mixed both types of fuel systems to get the best of both worlds?" we technically meant out of those particular vehicles we specialize in. We understand that foreign manufacturers and other non performance vehicles might have introduced this dual setup first.
Why would you modify the last question to fit the answer? The most common comment in here is that Ford was late to the Dual Injection Strategy.
Ford didnt produce a v8 with direct injection until 2018... Another viewer pointed out the LT5, and it is the only GM v8 I found that uses Port and Direct Injection, Chrysler/ Dodge/Ram v8s do not use t utilize direct injection at all. If the revision of what the question was supposed to pertain to is true then the answer you give is that the 2018 and newer 5.0 Ford v8 used dual injection strategies to before the Corvette exclusive LT5... Do those engines comprise your primary focus?
That is a narrow scope answer to the industry's move towards using Port and Direct injection so:
Are you sure you meant to answer "FORD"?
We all makes mistakes .I sallute u guyss make more videos
Thank you! This really helped me understand the differences!
Thank you!
That was terrific. I learned a lot, and entertainment + production value were excellent. Well done, guys.
What a nice video to add to a museum when electrics take over.
Toyota combined port and direct injection back in 2012, called it D4-S and used it on the toyota 86/BRZ. idk if toyota were the first but ford definitely was not.
Aha. Thanks for the feedback! We should have clarified our question. Please see our disclaimer in the pinned comment above.
I'm not a Toyota guy but I think Toyota was making port and direct injection engines first
We think you're right! Check out our comment/correction in the video description. We appreciate your insight!
I know Toyota has been using it since at least 2007 on the 2GR-FSE. Not to sure about anything prior. It’s a question that greatly confuses google.
Toyota by a decade lol. I mean.... they only beat everyone else by 10 YEARS.
Yep, lexus (toyota) did it first
Toyota has the patent for it. Nobody can copy their design
The Lexus LC500 and IS 500
equipped with a 5.0-liter V8 engine that is part of the Yamaha-developed family. It's known for its performance and is designated as the
2UR-GSE engine. Carbon buildup on intake
valve not occur due to dual port injection.
Gasoline will wash over intake valve.
Clarified my question in the first 30 seconds
Another good video.
Please keep them coming. Very very smart people at The Tuning School.
Buy their books and you'll see for yourself.
Super appreciated! Thank you.
I was literally thinking Ford has the best of both worlds before you ask that question. Good info to know!
Great minds... Thanks for watching!
TheTuningSchool also, what about the dodge trans tuning course? Any estimated time when it will be ready for purchase?
Wow! Great knowledge with appropriate presenting. Thank you for making it easy to understand! Deserve a Sub and 👍
Best Description of my Subaru Crosstrek 2.5i Direct injection system
Great information, thanks 👍
Thanks for watching!
I hate direct injection as it’s a PITA to keep the valves clean with a detergent fuel.
Direct injection is not the problem, It's the egr and pcv that cause the problem
Thank you
You related to ferris bueller bro?
Hit the Bell!!!!!
As far as i know Toyota was first manufacturer to use both di and port injection.
Good info. Thanks! We should have clarified our question. Please see our disclaimer in the pinned comment above.
What about Ford Duratec HWDA engine (this engine typically uses Siemens port fuel injection system), how long this engine lasts, what kind of symptoms or issues are there and so on? When this kind of engine (like HXDA / HWDA etc) could "wear out"?
Toyota/Lexus did away with the first DI/PI setup. I have an '06 IS350 my own with a di/pi setup on it.
Nice!
why arent all new engines multi port injected. makes sense right?
I'm car shopping right now looking for an SUV. Are there any suv's that have both?
Dosnt the Lexus rc350 have both from 2015
JEALOUS TO SEE YOUR SNAPON TOOL BOX :-)
What a great representation 👍🏼 , do port injections cleans entirely the intake valves or just half of it ? Thanks again
Thanks. Port injection will only clean part of the valve.
So I've a 2016 Ford Focus 2 .0 L I 4 GDI engine . Is it a real concern for carbon buildup and loss of performance and what can we do to prevent this ? Any good cleaners we can add to tank ? It's not necessarily a huge concern ? It seems as if gas cleaners such as I've mentioned only treat the gas itself ? Any help will be greatly appreciated
Fuel additives won't work because carbon deposits on DI engines are caused by not introducing fuel into the intake ports. If there's no fuel getting into the intake then even all the fuel additives in the world won't help.
I'm looking at having to clean my valves in my direct injection motor. It looks like a hell of a job. To make things worse, they put a valve that recirculates the dirty exhaust back into the intake for emissions. So not only are the valves not being cleaned by the fuel, but they're actively being showered with carbon deposits. Who thought this was a good idea? Anyone?
Look into the PCV system on your car. You'll see why. There's a thing all engines suffer from, it's called blowby.
@@mpchappelle yeah, I'd say that's a factor, but it wouldn't be a problem with dual or port injection. Also egr system is literally constantly putting dirty air through the intake valves.
@@mountaindew267 Dude. If you seal that system, you're gonna over pressurize the crankcase. Then your gaskets are gonna start to leak over time. Look into a catch can if you have DI. And it's a factor with all engines. Even new cars have blowby. And if you disconnect it so it doesn't reroute, you'll just get a vacuum leak.
@@mpchappelle do you know what egr is? It has nothing to do with crank case pressure. Obviously blow by needs to be vented, but egr doesn't need to be a thing for any reason besides emissions.
@@mountaindew267 Oh wait you said EGR? My bad. Just get rid of it. Shit I forgot those existed. Normally I would delete them.
Hi, I know I will sound weird but I have a question about meth injection.
In europe we can't access that easily , so I would like to know how ethanol would compare
Hello! Check out our Forced Injection series here: ua-cam.com/play/PL_lGy-2a1ig_re5PuytU9yzF1gBuAcug6.html
And no question is weird to us 😉
Lt5 is both also
Thanks for the info! We clarified the question in our disclaimer in the pinned comment above.
I have one question about gdi, so my question is "isnt true that GDI system more have hot temperature then PFI system, because PFP when piston move from bottom dead center to top dead center ,the fresh air from filter and mix with cool fuel come to the cilinders and wash off the head piston that make the temperature down because of that..
Nice content , i from indonesia
Please answer
Give us a call or email us today to give as much details as possible and we'll answer you as best as we can.
@@TheTuningSchool muhammadsammn737@gmail.com
@@TheTuningSchool thanks for the respon
Port > Direct injection anyday.
Me to, I'm not waiting
Thanks for checking in. The video is set and ready to start soon!
have a look at orbitaluav.com.au low-pressure GDI. it uses a low pressure air-pump to atomize the directly-injected fuel. years back, many major companies looked at this setup but for some reason, elected to just go with HPDI. guess the manufacturers didn't want to pay the royalty fee.
The ground work based on high pressure direct diesel injection had already been laid out before the OEMs took direct injection to market.
It is less of a headache to be able to modify the architecture of fuel injection by adding a high pressure fuel pump and injectors, rather than to add an air compressor system to accomplish a similar feat.
A low pressure air pump is incapable of efficiently delivering the fuel quantity into the combustion chamber when the piston is nearing top dead center . That is where high pressure direct injection outclasses other methods.
Heavy duty diesel engines that are already equipped with an air compressor for brake/suspension systems use to utilize compressed as the force to actuate egr, boost control, VGT, aftertreatment fuel injection, fan clutch control etc but are commonly adopting electronic control instead.
@@3sgteleak was wondering why you referred to diesel when i was referring to gasoline when i looked at the vid again at 2:34 and noticed reference to "common rail" which is usually a diesel term. the vid also references existence of both low and high pressure pumps in the engine(s) they were talking about.
you make a few good points...one of which is about high-pressure and top-dead-centre...but orbital low-pressure DI had been used to research HCCI (operates similar to diesel but uses gasoline) before and according to past orbital research papers, their system can be used regardless pf cylinder-stroke position although most of these besides the HCCI ones do seem to only relate to gasolines.
i think it was the Ford Genesis program that had a few hundred Orbital low-pressure DI 2-stroke engine powered hatchbacks that operated for a few years.
anyhow, disregarding diesel engines...ALL gasoline DI engines these days seem to be of the high-pressure variety which needs the addition of a dedicated high-pressure pump when low-pressure ones are already integrated for pumping fuel etc...
orbital low-pressure DI predates HPDI in diesels and was originally developed as part of the novel "orbital engine". the DI technology component was hived off to improve 2-stroke emissions when the company founder and board realized that auto majors were not interested in novel non 4-stroke engines. the hope then was auto major would be more interested in cleaner 2-strokes due to power advantage but this was not to be.
so now....orbital only concentrates on military heavy-flex fuel UAV engine applications.
@@wl88168 That is a pretty nifty design (the orbital engine). To be honest I didnt know about it, and the website that i found from the link you provided didnt provide insight to the combustion operation. Since your most recent reply I have only started to grasp the design you were referencing.
I mentioned diesel technology because that is the closest relative to gasoline DI that I am aware of. Obviously we know these are spark ignition engines, and not diesel but a lot of the tech is shared between both systems Though at 1/10th the pressure of
I just think that it is easier to add more pressure to the fuel system than it is to add another system to the engine.
Perhaps OEMS are currently working on the Obital injection strategies to achieve HCCI as the next step to keeping the ICE viable against the electric rivals. If Orbital Injection tech works effectively to attain HCCI then i feel like manufacturers will employ it when they need another secret weapon.
Reverting to the subject of 2 stroke diesels and unconventional engine design: Have you seen the progress that Achates has made? The youtube videos are pretty dismal but Cummins has contracted their tech to build 3 cylinder 6 piston engines for the US military.
@@3sgteleak i doubt the auto companies are looking into Orbital and HCCI anymore...from memory, i think it kinda worked but was too unreliable, complex and expensive. have a look at the "Lotus Omnivore Concept Engine."
Orbital themselves have not indicated that they're still pursuing business in the auto sector but i'm sure they won't refuse if there's further interest.
another interesting aside, there was a company (can't remember the name) years ago that employed the Orbital low-pressure Direct Injection process and optimised it to drive an engine at optimal constant speed maximising energy conversion to efficiently charge a battery as part of a hybrid-elecric vehicle set up before hybrids and/or electrics became a thing....
i'd be wary of pining any hopes on any novel non 4-stroke engines getting anywhere...many companies with novel engines have been trying for decades to go mainstream or mass market without success. the barriers to entry and acceptance are just too numerous and high.
i'll look at Achates sometime...first i've heard of it.
i'll swap you for another one... have a look at revetec.com. this company has been around for ages too.
OR "split cycle engines."
@@3sgteleak just had a very quick look... the achates engine looks kinda like an inverted vertical version of the horizontally opposed "boxer engine".
my Kia Forte gdi starting burning oil like crazy at like 120k
Hemi all day! Sequential multi port fuel injection!
0:12 why tf did that 2017 Camaro turn into a 5th gen??
This helped me understand that I'm not interested in trusting a direct injected truck motor to make it past 150k miles without having to replace multiple fuel pumps and injectors that run off the cam. Gonna be a pass from me.
Not looking good for GDI engines
Yet Ford has some of the least reliable cars like the rest of the American manufacturers. So regardless of what "port + direct" ford does ecoboost has proven to be not that reliable.
Lol their 1.0 ecoboost cars were going up in flames in the UK.
It's Ford, what do you expect?
DI is only because of "climate" hysteria. Basically destroying engines prematurely.
The background music is annoying.
Background music sucks!!!!
Hmm, okay. We'll try again next time. What's wrong with it?
@@TheTuningSchool To me it distracted from what you were trying to convey. I don't know if it is my computer or if it is just what everyone thinks is cool, but most YT creators think blaring music is cool or something. I turn off videos that have music that way too loud. I have to turn up the volume to hear the person talking then the music blows out my ears and it's very annoying to me... But I guess to each his own... Thanks!!!!
@@dannywilsher4165 Thanks for the feedback. We are always working on improving both our content and the quality of our videos. We will definitely keep that in mind for the upcoming episodes. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
@@TheTuningSchool You are welcome! Keep up the good content, I enjoy watching!!!
That's not why your here to critique the music use your head pay attention . Sure u were told this plenty in school video was perfect 👌
"Me and Tony are going to do something?" "Me" doesn't do anything. "Me" will never do anything. Why do children completely go moron when faced with personal pronouns?