~4:19 I learned right after finishing this video that Bonfires apparently are still a Halloween practice in the UK, it just never really transferred over to North America.
Yeah not really sorry. Bonfires are more associated with guy fawkes night/ bonfire night/ November 5th. I've never heard anyone doing a bonfire for halloween in the UK. Trick or treating is also more of a 20th century north American tradition.
@@knighty2465 I added this comment after stumbling upon an article where someone from the UK was talking about Halloween bonfires, don't know how popular it is but I'm assuming they weren't just making it up lmao. As for Trick-or-Treating, yes, it's a 20th century American practice (recorded in Canada prior to the US), but it most likely developed out of similar older practices from Europe, as I explained in the video.
I feel like people see a nominally Christian holiday without outwardly modern Christian elements and assume it must have been borrowed. What people underestimate though is that the Christianity today is not necessarily the same Christianity with the exact same practices as the religion of the past. Medieval Christianity most likely focused more on the spookier elements of the afterlife way more than even the most devout believer today.
Thank you for the video! Historically, religion gets pretty weird and it's nice to be reminded of that. Ritual hasn't become less important in the era of Prosperity Gospel but it's certainly become much more sanitized with less emphasis on the more esoteric bits. Which it sorta had to to survive. The rituals of yesteryear were built on the genuine belief that those rituals had a tengible impact on the world. That's a much harder sell today.
To me it makes sense that all these holiday traditions would naturally have a lot in common with eachother, especially if stemming from the same geographical area, because humans like what humans like. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a direct one-to-one continuation, but that a holiday could independently evolve over time practices that reflect other holidays from other time periods doesn't seem surprising. And that they aren't exact matches is to be expected thanks to the passage of time and development of culture.
Well the thing is that in terms of actual practices we don't see much similarity at all; like, as I explained in the video, very little is known about Samhain, so we have little reason to think it resembled Halloween in anything other than perhaps vibes. With Lemuralia, meanwhile, the connections are really small all things considered - some resemblance between soul cakes and the oat cakes put out for Lemuralia - so they could be the result of coincidence just as easily as continuity.
I am throwing everything I thought I knew about pagan holidays out the window. It's strange how far the Zeitgeist strays from the truth sometimes. Excellent research and presentation.
When I first looked into Easter (prompted by more obviously false memes like the Ishtar ones) and found out there was nothing Pagan about it, I thought that made it an outlier, but having studied a few other holidays since then, I'm starting to think most of the Pagan influence is completely fictional. There might be some basis to some of it, like the dates certain holidays were moved to, but so far I haven't found any practices that could be conclusively linked to Pagan precursors.
@@SomasAcademy it’s always just stated as if it’s commonly known facts, that it was a universal policy across centuries of church history, to repurpose local festivals . When I go to fact check this it’s really complicated and difficult to prove. Sometimes people point to Pope Gregory’s letter to Mellitus on the English. But all that says is basically to repurpose any perfectly good pagan buildings and re-dedicate them to saints. Placate the locals who miss sacrificing oxen to “devils” by having feasts in honor of the establishment of a local church. It’s more permissive than prescriptive really. And then it’s addressing specifically the bishops presiding over the Anglo-Saxon converts in 601. Doesn’t mean it was a universal policy , everywhere. And definitely didn’t really apply to the second century Romans when they dated Easter and Christmas I do wonder about st Bridget’s day and Imbolc but there’s so little information about it it’s hard to say for sure. And that’s the celts not the anglo-saxons
2:43 - your allusion to 'trick or treating' here is misplaced. While superficially it looks similar to some pagan rituals (e.g. Slavic Kolyadka on Christmas Eve) 'trick or treating' is exclusively US 20th century phenomena and connected to pranks (eggs, flour, toilet paper, etc.)
As explained later in the video, trick-or-treating most likely developed out of the Medieval practice of Souling, with no clear line of continuity to Lemuralia practices. I just thought it was an amusing coincidence, you're right that I could have made that more clear.
@@SomasAcademy well no, you can't find evidence of "trick or treating" in US earlier than late 50's - 60's. If you have some Irish heritage - you could ask them.
First off, you can absolutely find evidence of trick-or-treating in the US before the late 50s, it was popularized in the 1940s after being introduced in the 1930s. Prior to that it's attested in Canada, where the earliest mention in print comes from 1917. From the Sault Daily Star in Ontario on Nov. 1, 1917: "Almost everywhere you went last night, particularly in the early part of the evening, you would meet gangs of youngsters out to celebrate. Some of them would have adopted various forms of "camouflage" such as masks, or would appear in long trousers and big hats or with long skirts. But others again didn't. . . . "Tricks or treats" you could hear the gangs call out, and if the householder passed out the "coin" for the "treats" his establishment would be immune from attack until another gang came along that knew not of or had no part in the agreement." The variation of "trick or treat" rather than "tricks or treats" is attested 10 years later, also in Canada. From the Herald, written in Blackie, Alberta, Nov. 3, 1927: "Hallowe’en provided an opportunity for real strenuous fun. No real damage was done except to the temper of some who had to hunt for wagon wheels, gates, wagons, barrels, etc., much of which decorated the front street. The youthful tormentors were at back door and front demanding edible plunder by the word “trick or treat” to which the inmates gladly responded and sent the robbers away rejoicing." In the US, we have attestation from 1934. From The Oregon Journal, Nov. 1, 1934: "Other young goblins and ghosts, employing modern shakedown methods, successfully worked the ‘trick-or-treat’ system in all parts of the city." And the practice didn't pop out of nowhere. Prior to the term "trick or treat" and the threat of pranks, Scottish children were going door to door in costume on Halloween, begging for fruits, sweets, and coins, from the 16th century, it was just called "guising" back then. The practice of guising was most likely a derivative of souling, as this practice has a longer association with All Hallows, and involved going door to door requesting treats, specifically Soul Cakes. I've cited my sources in the video, please consult "Halloween: From Pagan Ritual to Party Night" by Nicholas Rogers for more information. You can download it on libgen.
@@yanikkunitsin1466 Again, it was present in Canada prior to the US, and developed in Canada from the similar tradition of guising, introduced from Ireland and Scotland, which itself most likely developed out of souling. Consult my sources, I've cited them all.
~4:19 I learned right after finishing this video that Bonfires apparently are still a Halloween practice in the UK, it just never really transferred over to North America.
Yeah not really sorry. Bonfires are more associated with guy fawkes night/ bonfire night/ November 5th. I've never heard anyone doing a bonfire for halloween in the UK. Trick or treating is also more of a 20th century north American tradition.
@@knighty2465 I added this comment after stumbling upon an article where someone from the UK was talking about Halloween bonfires, don't know how popular it is but I'm assuming they weren't just making it up lmao. As for Trick-or-Treating, yes, it's a 20th century American practice (recorded in Canada prior to the US), but it most likely developed out of similar older practices from Europe, as I explained in the video.
bonfires are also a practise on the northwest region of spain along with other samain traditions. Though most people think they are all made up
It was definitely a tradition in Northern Ireland up until the 00s
In Germany they have bonfires for Easter (Osterfeur)
I feel like people see a nominally Christian holiday without outwardly modern Christian elements and assume it must have been borrowed. What people underestimate though is that the Christianity today is not necessarily the same Christianity with the exact same practices as the religion of the past. Medieval Christianity most likely focused more on the spookier elements of the afterlife way more than even the most devout believer today.
Thank you for the video! Historically, religion gets pretty weird and it's nice to be reminded of that. Ritual hasn't become less important in the era of Prosperity Gospel but it's certainly become much more sanitized with less emphasis on the more esoteric bits. Which it sorta had to to survive. The rituals of yesteryear were built on the genuine belief that those rituals had a tengible impact on the world. That's a much harder sell today.
Those turnip lanterns are...something else.
Not quite the same vibes as their Pumpkin descendants lmao
I wanna bring ‘em back
To me it makes sense that all these holiday traditions would naturally have a lot in common with eachother, especially if stemming from the same geographical area, because humans like what humans like. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a direct one-to-one continuation, but that a holiday could independently evolve over time practices that reflect other holidays from other time periods doesn't seem surprising. And that they aren't exact matches is to be expected thanks to the passage of time and development of culture.
Well the thing is that in terms of actual practices we don't see much similarity at all; like, as I explained in the video, very little is known about Samhain, so we have little reason to think it resembled Halloween in anything other than perhaps vibes. With Lemuralia, meanwhile, the connections are really small all things considered - some resemblance between soul cakes and the oat cakes put out for Lemuralia - so they could be the result of coincidence just as easily as continuity.
I like the faces on the Turnip Lanterns very spookims 🎃
THE TEETH
I am throwing everything I thought I knew about pagan holidays out the window. It's strange how far the Zeitgeist strays from the truth sometimes. Excellent research and presentation.
Thank you so much!
Lovely analysis, very complementary to my own!😀
Great video thank you!
Thank you!
I'm starting to wonder if any of the christian holy days were EVER really "pagan" in any significant way.
When I first looked into Easter (prompted by more obviously false memes like the Ishtar ones) and found out there was nothing Pagan about it, I thought that made it an outlier, but having studied a few other holidays since then, I'm starting to think most of the Pagan influence is completely fictional. There might be some basis to some of it, like the dates certain holidays were moved to, but so far I haven't found any practices that could be conclusively linked to Pagan precursors.
@@SomasAcademy it’s always just stated as if it’s commonly known facts, that it was a universal policy across centuries of church history, to repurpose local festivals . When I go to fact check this it’s really complicated and difficult to prove. Sometimes people point to Pope Gregory’s letter to Mellitus on the English. But all that says is basically to repurpose any perfectly good pagan buildings and re-dedicate them to saints. Placate the locals who miss sacrificing oxen to “devils” by having feasts in honor of the establishment of a local church. It’s more permissive than prescriptive really. And then it’s addressing specifically the bishops presiding over the Anglo-Saxon converts in 601. Doesn’t mean it was a universal policy , everywhere. And definitely didn’t really apply to the second century Romans when they dated Easter and Christmas
I do wonder about st Bridget’s day and Imbolc but there’s so little information about it it’s hard to say for sure. And that’s the celts not the anglo-saxons
@@SomasAcademyEaster bunny is pagan.
@@Greggers1516 Nope, check out my video "The Surprisingly Non-Pagan Origins of Easter"
Great video
interesting video
Okay what about jewelry do you know pegans gave jewelery
Que?
Who else was sent here by “Mythillogical”
Can I dress up as a monster
Yes
2:43 - your allusion to 'trick or treating' here is misplaced. While superficially it looks similar to some pagan rituals (e.g. Slavic Kolyadka on Christmas Eve) 'trick or treating' is exclusively US 20th century phenomena and connected to pranks (eggs, flour, toilet paper, etc.)
As explained later in the video, trick-or-treating most likely developed out of the Medieval practice of Souling, with no clear line of continuity to Lemuralia practices. I just thought it was an amusing coincidence, you're right that I could have made that more clear.
@@SomasAcademy well no, you can't find evidence of "trick or treating" in US earlier than late 50's - 60's. If you have some Irish heritage - you could ask them.
First off, you can absolutely find evidence of trick-or-treating in the US before the late 50s, it was popularized in the 1940s after being introduced in the 1930s. Prior to that it's attested in Canada, where the earliest mention in print comes from 1917.
From the Sault Daily Star in Ontario on Nov. 1, 1917:
"Almost everywhere you went last night, particularly in the early part of the evening, you would meet gangs of youngsters out to celebrate. Some of them would have adopted various forms of "camouflage" such as masks, or would appear in long trousers and big hats or with long skirts. But others again didn't. . . . "Tricks or treats" you could hear the gangs call out, and if the householder passed out the "coin" for the "treats" his establishment would be immune from attack until another gang came along that knew not of or had no part in the agreement."
The variation of "trick or treat" rather than "tricks or treats" is attested 10 years later, also in Canada. From the Herald, written in Blackie, Alberta, Nov. 3, 1927:
"Hallowe’en provided an opportunity for real strenuous fun. No real damage was done except to the temper of some who had to hunt for wagon wheels, gates, wagons, barrels, etc., much of which decorated the front street. The youthful tormentors were at back door and front demanding edible plunder by the word “trick or treat” to which the inmates gladly responded and sent the robbers away rejoicing."
In the US, we have attestation from 1934. From The Oregon Journal, Nov. 1, 1934:
"Other young goblins and ghosts, employing modern shakedown methods, successfully worked the ‘trick-or-treat’ system in all parts of the city."
And the practice didn't pop out of nowhere. Prior to the term "trick or treat" and the threat of pranks, Scottish children were going door to door in costume on Halloween, begging for fruits, sweets, and coins, from the 16th century, it was just called "guising" back then. The practice of guising was most likely a derivative of souling, as this practice has a longer association with All Hallows, and involved going door to door requesting treats, specifically Soul Cakes. I've cited my sources in the video, please consult "Halloween: From Pagan Ritual to Party Night" by Nicholas Rogers for more information. You can download it on libgen.
@@SomasAcademy as I said - US 20th century invention. None such ritual existed in Scotland or Ireland.
@@yanikkunitsin1466 Again, it was present in Canada prior to the US, and developed in Canada from the similar tradition of guising, introduced from Ireland and Scotland, which itself most likely developed out of souling. Consult my sources, I've cited them all.